Humans of Martech

Describe the opposite of sales & marketing alignmentSales is pushing hard to meet their number (revenue, arpu, customer count). Marketing is pushing hard to meet their targets (marketing qualified leads). Not talking to each other and working as a single unit.There is a big discrepancy in what types of leads convert and become workable by sales. The lack of alignment equates to marketing dollars that are spent frivolously and sales ignoring what they’re being fed from marketingWhat does marketing need to know about sales?Sales folks aren’t lazy. They have a lot on the line with a big portion of their compensation based on hitting sales numbers. However, they will always take the quickest and easiest route to make the sale. Keep that in mind. Think about how they work and put yourself in their shoes when you are communicating new marketing initiatives.What does sales need to know about marketing?Marketing folks are not ‘out of touch.’ They are expected to generate demand in a world full of email overload, ad overload, content overload. Being in marketing is not an easy job. Keep that in mind. Think about how they work and put yourself in their shoes when you are communicating new sales initiatives where you need marketing’s help to be successful.For listeners who heard you paint that picture of misalignment and are thinking… shit that’s totally me. What are some ways to remedy this?Meeting frequently and often between marketing leaders and sales leaders - talk about what is working, what is not working. Allow both sides to voice frustrations (I’m generating leads, why aren’t you working them…you’re generating leads, they aren’t any good).Work together and in coordination with operations to create a scalable engine by using a revenue lifecycle and scoring methodology that is adaptable.From top of funnel leads all the way down to revenue, what's at the intersection of sales and marketing?The sweet spot is sales accepted leads.- so it’s not just what leads became ‘qualified’ but what leads were actually accepted into the sales pipeline to be worked.If you stop at MQLs (marketing qualified leads), then you don’t see what leads are worked. If you go to far down the funnel (ie revenue), you start to get into a gray area beyond what marketing has control overHow do you achieve that alignment? Brute force? Culture?Set the expectation at the leadership level. Put regular cadences in place. Create metrics and report on them.This takes TIME - I’d say 12 months to fully get folks into the motion where they understand their numbers, where infrastructure is tweaked on the operations side to enable accurate reporting.Why is Revenue Operations so important? And why give it a separate name?Revenue Operations is still relatively new in the marketplace, but it is the direction we are headed in. It makes a lot of sense because working in silos is ineffective. It all ties back to the customer. All companies have this utopia whereby everything they do enables the best customer experience.Operations play an important role in accomplishing this goal because without the appropriate infrastructure that’s scalable, data points informing marketing decisions and sales conversations, visibility into post-sales and upset opportunities - it isn’t truly possible. How do you get Sales & Marketing talking in a common language?Setting a baseline for success metrics and holding folks accountable to those metrics. Having open, transparent and frequent conversations around how close we are to hitting those success metrics and what can we do as a TEAM to pivot if we are falling shortTeaching less experienced folks how to do this. In a lot of organizations, some people have never done this before, so they have to be taught and coached on how to get there. That’s where strong leadership comes into play.As a RevOps leader, how do you foster great communication?Communicating how what you are doing as a RevOps leader solves a business problem. This isn’t the easiest thing to do for technical people because a lot of RevOps stakeholders are not technical. The most successful people I’ve seen in the RevOps role can take a business problem, go down into the technical details/build, but only share that is relevant to their stakeholders that solves a problem.Creating a dialogue that is frequent and transparent, where feedback is welcome, is best.Lastly, make it part of your regular cadence for any new implementation - whether its an entirely new tool, new feature set, or initiative - making sure you and your team are communicating progress/challenges and working with the training team.What advice do you have for people in terms of having a happy career?Happiness is all perspective. It’s about 25% your situation and 75% your outlook. If you don’t like your job, get as much experience as you can and then change it. If you don’t like your career, get as much experience as you can that is helpful in where you want to go and use your network to pivot. For me, I didn’t exactly know what I wanted to do or be. I knew I liked technology and business, so I went to Georgia Tech. I knew I liked fancy things, so I figured I had to get a job that would support a certain lifecycle. I knew I liked a challenge and didn’t like to be bored, and for me, that resulted in trying all kinds of things.Don’t be hard on yourself if you don’t know what you want to do. Do get out there and start to mark off what you don’t like, so that you can figure out what you do like. I feel very lucky because I finally feel like I am right where I am supposed to be. I love revenue operations - I solve a different business problem every day, and I get to use technology to do it. I am also helping the business which creates a lot of satisfaction for me on a personal level. And, I’m in tech which is a hot space and has good job security.Lastly, I am very fortunate that in today’s technological world, I can work from almost anywhere, I have good health insurance and can support my family. All things that are important to me both personally and professionally.--Lauren Sanborn on LinkedIn.CallRail.Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

Ditch your keyboard as often as possible. Make handwriting your default medium even when it’s counter-intuitiveMeetings:* Ditch your phone/laptop if and when we get back to office lifeRemote:* Turn off all your other apps, including and especially slack and email* No other tabs open* Video-on, hands off mouse and keyboardWrite a landing page by hand; write an email nurture by hand; write out strategy; write out your to do list or projects. You can’t erase easily so you get all your ideas down in a true, unfiltered first draft.Okay so I get all the benefits of remembering shit more but if I start hand writing all my emails my process seems longer with typing my work up. So the argument is that the time you spend focused handwriting that email, combine that with the digitizing part, is still faster and if more quality than starting in Google Docs. Of course you’ll end up typing it, and if you think it’s crazy onerous, think that the average person types 45 words or 200 character per minute; i bet you’ll be faster and your ideas will beg to be put on the pageAnecdote, I find hand-writing unlocks my creative process and actually makes me the final product come together much quickerReading internet articles? Want to actually retain that information? Handwrite your notesTons of research proving that retention is better with handwritten notes.The gist is that your macbook impairs or negativaly impacts learning or quality work because your keyboard typing involves shallower processing compared to handwriting. So, more parts of your brain are used when handwriting vs. just typing, so you're able to store it more accurately.Anecdote, learning coding and it definitely doesn’t come natural; I started with online tutorials, multiple screens, and my IDE; When I started handwriting, I actually started to comprehend the material; took summer off and found that I retained information better than i expected; I’m taking this even further and literally writing all my code by hand; typing code is like driving a racecar after riding a bicycle; my comprehension and confidence is actually improvingNext time you need to write something, try Outline with paper, write draft in keyboard.--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

We’re not responsible enough to have unregulated internet usage. We need to be deliberate about our tool usage. We use the tool, not the other way around.One of the main points Cal Newport makes in his book DM is that the key to thriving in our high-tech world is to spend much less time using technology.A carpenter uses a hammer, the hammer doesn’t use them. Is the same true of digital marketers? We get sucked into our device and end up providing value to social media platforms, news site, content providers; not to ourselves, not to our employers.Digital minimalism could mean something different to different people. For some, it has nothing to do with the amount of tools you use but rather it's about how you make space to create and learn and be happy. But for some, and I think this is the case for you, it has everything to do with the amount of tools you use. It's getting rid of some of that clutter so you can focus on what's important.Think how much more productive you’d be if you had to go to a library to access the internet.I love the library analogy. It lends very well to the idea that it would force us to focus your online time on a small number of specific activities. And then happily miss out on everything else.As part of my digital declutter, I started a computer sign-in sheet to regular and filter my access. Here's how I set it up:* 4 columns; time, purpose, sites/apps, satisfaction* I fill in first 3 before every session. This forces me to really think about what I’m going to do during a work session; I plan my work and what tools I need to accomplish my job* After my work session, I rate my satisfaction. 10 is simple to get - I complete the task I set out to do and didn’t look at any other sites* Noticed my lower scores all came from session interrupted by Slack & Email; very interesting, when I scheduled that time on Slack & Email, I could still attain a 10; realized the problem wasn’t the tool, it was my relationship to it.I’m super productive and hitting all my deadlines; I only work 3 days a week and have rarely felt this type of sustained productivity, and I’d say I’m usually pretty productive and never miss deadlines.Biggest change for me was forcing me to spend time to plan out what to do in a work session. I'm good about planning my week, sometimes by days, but never tried work sessions.It’s really easy for me to tell when I need to think strategically about my priorities and refocus my to do list.Your computer is just a tool, and you should wield it with the same finesse and care as a carpenter; A carpenter always has a hammer in his or her belt but they’re don’t use it for anything other than pounding nails.What about those periods of time where you’re fucking around on reddit and you see something badass and it inspires you. You save it to your pocket, maybe you go back to it, maybe you don’t. But it’s it’s swipe file of shit that’s only there because of browsing. And you might be thinking cool but you can just schedule this reddit browsing time. But maybe the quality comes from the quantity of browsing. Maybe it’s just an excuse for using Reddit.Content is not king; your behaviour on the internet is; if your behaviour is different than your intentions when it comes to internet usage, it’s worth paying attention to.How can you be more intentional about your use of technology? Try a sign in sheet.--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

How do you decide what type of company you want to work for? Figure out who your dream companies are in that size, space, industry by trying new things.In college, I worked for a startup sized agency, a public enterprise, a governement department. I knew I would be likely happier in smaller companies.The most important part of an interview is not to be prepared for what they will ask, but rather making sure you ask the right questions. One of my favs: Totally ask the company what the salary range is for this position. Usually it's just the candidate forced giving a range. Doesn't have to be the case.Questions to ask based on size of company (Startup) Data/technical support, is there a data warehouse (Scale up) What's the plan/reporting structure, ops report to marketing or revenue, examples of projects (Enterprise) Ask biggest problems right now, ask about tech stack, ask about change resistance, age of staff.Questions to ask regardless of company size: Ask people what they love the most about the job. What they think of manager. what are the big upcoming projects, make sure they match your KPIs. What sod you see as the biggest hurdle for this role.How to show your passion: pick a project you loved, and go deep into the details and why you loved it.Idea: Send a cover letter via video; play on the remote factor. If it's an email job, tell the manager you wrote an email series for them as an introduction to your experience and background. If it's a lifecycle role, send them your favorite workflow template.How to differentiate yourself: show how much you learn on your own, not just in your day to day, talk about mentors, courses, Slack groups, favorite authors and thought leaders.--Intro music by Wowa via Unminus

Choosing between being an individual contributor or a managerIt’s a common dilemma across all fields: the top contributors are most likely to get promoted to a management position. The issue is that not all contributors make good managers, while almost all managers need to have some subject matter expertise acquired through being an individual contributor. In this episode, Jon and Phil break down the differences between each career track and make a case that most people would be happier as an individual contributor. Will you be happier as an individual contributor?Most people will be happier as an individual contributor. Everyone is different, but many individual contributors seek management roles because it’s perceived as the only path to promotion within an organization.This is a dilemma faced by many individuals across different types of roles: the top individual contributor is flagged as for promotion to management. But the skill of managing people is quite different from being a great contributor. The other question is will contributors be happy spending their time managing people?Think about it: if what you love about martech is figuring out how to set up automation, workflows, testing new tools, working with teams to solve problems, and getting your hands dirty, the shift to management is going to draw a stark contrast. Managers in martech, like Directors of Marketing Operations, are responsible for their team, the strategy, and overseeing all those moving parts. The skills required to be excellent at marketing operations are different from being great at management. One could make the argument that you could be excellent at management without actually being a great contributor. Just consider one skill all managers need: emotional intelligence. People issues arise all the time in management and require a thoughtful, considerate manager to resolve. Understanding team chemistry and paying close attention to the needs of individual team members is critical, but a skill many of us need to cultivate. Consider the quiet team member who struggles in silence with the team dynamics, maybe never feeling the opportunity or encouragement to bring their ideas up in team meetings. Then, one day, they leave the team because they found a better opportunity. Benefits of being an individual contributorBeing an individual contributor can be a fulfilling and rewarding career choice. Here’s why individual contributors love their work:Deep work and flow stateTime managementSpecialization and be true expertsAutonomy in daily tasksAligned with strength and interestsDeep work and flow stateFor individual contributors it’s possible to achieve that zen-like state of flow where time flies by as you just enjoy completing your work. For creators, this might be writing a blog post or designing an image; for marketing ops folks, it may be designing workflows, setting up automation, or auditing a system. Hitting this state as a manager is nearly impossible with a need for managing team members, triaging requests, and communicating across multiple channels. The dream of turning off Slack and checking out of email seems like a distant one when you’re in management. Managers face continuous waves of interruptions that drown any chances of deep work.But for individual contributors, this heightened state of focus isn’t the ideal, it’s the norm. Time managementAs a manager, your calendar is a wall of one-on-ones, team meetings, strategy meetings with leadership, and ad-hoc-have-to-meet-now meetings. If this sounds like hell, well, this is a taste of a manager’s life. Entire books have been written about making meetings less hellish, such as one of our favorites “Death by Meeting“.While it’s commendable to make the most of meetings and we’re not going to deny how important they are to business, the best way to avoid meeting hell is to not have any meetings. It’s not avoidance; it’s focus. Individual contributors need time to work on their projects and deliverables. Meetings where individual contributors are involved should be quick, painless, and to the point. A common complaint of managers is the desire to get back to doing what they love doing.Specialization and masteryTo get that first promotion to management, most marketers need to demonstrate some skills and chops. Being a Director of Marketing Operations, for example, would be a tough job if you’d never managed a marketing automation instance before. But over time, your skills as a marketing ops contributor are less important than enabling members on your team to flourish and become experts.Managers begin to lose that “edge” that made them so easy to promote in the first place. They spend less time in the tools and more time directing strategy. And, let’s be clear: this role is extremely important and valuable. That’s not what we’re saying.But for individual contributors considering management, they need to understand that the opportunities to become deep experts in their field diminish in proportion to their managerial responsibilities. If what motivates you in your career is to be an expert, then managing may not be the best option.Autonomy in daily tasksBeing an expert in your craft comes with respect from your team which allows you to operate with a higher degree of autonomy than a manager. An SEO with technical knowledge or a marketing operations pro with deep platform knowledge should be given the ability to do their thing. Managers, however, are responsible for a wide range of responsibilities, tasks, and other human beings.Autonomy is closely linked to job satisfaction and this is the operating model for most individual contributors, especially as you deepen your expertise in your chosen field. It’s not to say as an individual contributor you won’t be told what to do or have your priorities influenced by a manager; it’s the “how” you accomplish your work that gives autonomy.Aligned with strength and interestsDo what you love. It’s an ideal that sounds like advice from your mom… but it’s true. When you are passionate about your work (or at the least enjoy it), then it’s easier to show up. Part of enjoying your job is being good at it. This may seem obvious, but it’s quite possible to enjoy something you aren’t good at. At work, aligning your strengths with your interests is a recipe for success. It’s a positive feedback loop where you will take initiative to deepen your expertise, experience greater autonomy, and command a higher salary.People management is a challenging jobIt’s a neat little story: graduate university, do a tour of duty as a marketing specialist, and then move into a management role. From there, who knows? VP of Marketing? CMO? The narrative is attractive partly because it’s the path we’ve been conditioned to associate with career success. If you don’t manage other people, are you still successful? We’ll get to that in the next section, but for now, let’s think about the challenges of people managing.First, humans are dynamic, complex, and emotional. Every human is unique and will respond to your management style differently. Even the best managers will face challenges due to personality differences. This is where a practice like that outlined in Radical Candor is valuable: develop deep relationships with your team, and earn the right to be candid.Something that you might not hear about managing other people: it’s draining. Emotional labor is real, and its effect on the joy you take in your job is real – in fact, studies suggest this impacts women disproporti...

His name is Jon Taylor, my name is Phil Gamache. Our mission is to future-proof the humans behind the tech so you can have a successful career in marketing. Here's a quick preview of the show. I think we're both empathetic and compassionate leaders, we actually look to understand what's happening on the other side of eyes across from us. What I'm super excited about is getting into less just the tech and the strategies and the tactics, but also behind the scenes of what it's like to be a b2b marketer. When to quit your job. When to take a break.  What does it take to get promoted? How do you ask for raises?  I think our podcast is focused on the humans behind the tech. But there's a lot of tech out there I mean that we need to unpack that tech. What is the value of manual versus automated reporting? What does it mean to be a technical marketer? How to setup lifecycles. What is lead scoring all about?  We are going to be your guides on a journey across the Martech landscape of doom.  If you only listen to a minute of our podcast, I want you to feel like you could get a snippet of intelligence. Credits and notes:Intro music by Wowa via Unminus.