21 Hats Podcast
21 Hats
The 21 Hats Podcast presents an authentic weekly conversation with small business owners who are remarkably willing to share what’s working for them and what isn’t. Unlike many business podcasts, which tend to talk to highly successful entrepreneurs whose struggles are in the past, the 21 Hats Podcast features a rotating cast of business owners who are still very much in the trenches fighting the good fight. Every week, our regulars gather to talk about the kinds of important issues many owners won’t even discuss behind closed doors: whether their businesses are as profitable as they should be, whether they are willing to give up some control to an investor in order to grow faster, why they had to lay off employees, how they wound up with way too much inventory, why they don’t have a succession plan, and even why they are concerned about their own mental health. Visit 21hats.com to hear all of our podcast episodes, read episode transcripts, and learn more. The show is produced by Jess Thoubboron, founder of Blank Word.
Episodes
Mentioned books
May 10, 2022 • 45min
Does Firing People Ever Get Easier?
This week, in episode 107, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and William Vanderbloemen discuss whether the old line about hiring slow and firing fast makes sense during a labor shortage. As William puts it, “What if you do have to hire fast? How do you do that? What if you do want to keep people even if you might have wanted to get rid of them before? How do you do that without ruining your culture?” Plus: How do you know it’s really time for someone to go? And what happens when employees share their salaries with each other? Anything good? And as we all binge watch the real life dramas about WeWork and Theranos, the question inevitably arises: Is it still okay to fake it until you make it? And if so, where do you draw the line?
May 9, 2022 • 19min
Dashboard: Gene Marks Went Remote Years Ago. He Hates It
This week, Loren Feldman and Gene Marks resume their weekly conversations about the most important stories affecting business owners, starting with why Gene was ahead of his time in taking his business remote and why he thinks it’s left his company dysfunctional. Plus: what should owners take from the latest strong jobs report? And how will businesses be affected if the Supreme Court does indeed overturn Roe v. Wade?
May 3, 2022 • 51min
My Deal Has Come Apart
This week, in episode 106, we start with an update of how 21 Hats has been doing since its sale brought new resources and new ambitions (Spoiler alert: It’s not going great!). Then, Dana White tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz about the progress she’s made on multiple fronts: attempting to sell franchises to revive her struggling Midtown Detroit location, to open new salons at Fort Bragg and in Dallas, and to secure financing. The owners discuss Dana’s financing options—venture capital, private equity, bank loan—assessing, in Shawn’s words, their “degrees of evil.” Plus: Shawn explains how his views on remote work have been evolving, and Jay explains why he’s tired of being called a tyrant (even though no one’s actually called him that).
Apr 26, 2022 • 56min
The Anchor Price
This week, in episode 105, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Liz Picarazzi talk pricing, specifically how they use an anchor price—the first number they offer prospective customers. Do they anchor low to avoid scaring anyone away? Or do they anchor high to disqualify unlikely buyers and to make the actual sale price feel more comfortable? Plus: Liz explains the remarkable, dream-come-true, my-product-in-Times Square PR gift she just received. Of course, this is entrepreneurship, so even when dreams come true, there tend to be complications. Liz’s business is getting a wave of publicity at a time when her fabricator in Shanghai has been locked down for almost four weeks. She’s talking to domestic fabricators as well, but they, too, will be dependent on raw materials that have to come from China. “It’s a problem,” she tells us.
Apr 19, 2022 • 42min
Bonus Episode: The Marketing Magic of Answering Customer Questions
This week, in a special bonus episode, Marcus Sheridan talks about the revolutionary strategy that he used to save his pool-building business during the Great Recession and that he’s been sharing ever since. That strategy is to volunteer answers to the questions your customers always ask—especially the questions you’ve been taught not to answer, at least not until you absolutely have to, such as those about pricing and potential problems with your product or service and who your best competitors might be. In this conversation, Sheridan also explains how to implement a content marketing strategy, why he isn’t a big proponent of social media, and what most business owners get wrong about marketing.
Apr 12, 2022 • 42min
Do You Really Want That Shiny Object?
This week, in episode 104, Laura Zander tells Shawn Busse and Jay Goltz about her eight-month roller coaster ride pursuing an acquisition. The deal would bring a new brand and profitable revenue at a reasonable price. To Laura, the creative challenge and opportunity are exciting—“really, really exciting”—but the financials are a concern. “Do I do this?” she asks. “Is it worth it?” And then there’s the broker, whose numbers don’t add up and who wants to collect his fee—including his piece of the earnout—immediately. Plus: Shawn explains how the rise of inexpensive design contractors forced his company to become a better business.
Apr 5, 2022 • 48min
Do You Take Money off the Table?
This week, in episode 103, Shawn Busse, Paul Downs, and Jay Goltz discuss their philosophies about taking money off the table vs. reinvesting it in the business. Of course, you can’t take money off the table unless there’s money on the table. Paul tells us that he once calculated his average earnings for his first 22 years in business and they came to about $11 an hour. But he now expects to make more money in the next five years than he did in the previous 35. We also talk about content marketing, direct mail, and trade shows. Plus: Was the Paycheck Protection Program, despite the billions of dollars in fraud, a success?
Mar 29, 2022 • 40min
What If I Get the Contract?
This week, in episode 102, Liz Picarazzi tells Jay Goltz that she’s pursuing multiple sales opportunities—and ponders what would happen if those opportunities actually came to fruition. Would her company, Citibin, be able to handle the additional volume? “In my fantasy world, where I am a lot,” Liz says, “I look at where this could go. And just like you, Jay, I go to, ‘How in the world would I produce all of these?’” Liz and Jay also talk about the pros and cons of pricing transparency: Do you volunteer your premium price up front? On your website even? Or do you wait until you’ve made your sales pitch and gotten your customer excited? Plus: we indulge a little further discussion on the merits of the 21 Hats brand.
Mar 22, 2022 • 44min
Why I Sold 21 Hats
This week, in episode 101, the tables are turned, as Loren Feldman announces the sale of 21 Hats and takes questions from Shawn Busse, Karen Clark Cole, and Jay Goltz. The buyer is Toby Scammell, founder of Womply, which provides software services to small businesses and helped more than a million of them obtain Paycheck Protection Program loans. Loren will continue as editor-in-chief, but as he explains, much of what this will mean for 21 Hats has yet to be determined—including, for example, whether the new entity will keep the 21 Hats name. Shawn, Karen, and Jay share their thoughts on that and also talk about how Karen solves problems for her big tech clients—and what smaller businesses can learn from her process. And Jay explains a change he’s making to his 401(k) plan that he believes will make it fairer for all of his employees.
Mar 15, 2022 • 48min
We Are Survivors
This week, in episode 100, two years after the pandemic first hit, Shawn Busse, Jay Goltz, and Liz Picarazzi talk about what they’ve learned, what they’re doing differently, and whether their businesses have gotten weaker or stronger. Leading up to the pandemic, Shawn—still carrying scars from the Great Recession—did a series of workshops on how to prepare for the next recession. “And so in that regard,” he tells us, “we were really well prepared” for the pandemic. Plus: public companies are increasing prices aggressively and then bragging on earnings calls about the extra profits those increases are generating. Is there a lesson in this for privately-owned businesses? Also: why does Jay seem more invested in his picture frame business than in his home furnishings business?
