Across the Divide Podcast

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen has a conversation with Michel Awad on the current state of tourism in Palestine-Israel and the challenges posed by mass pilgrimage tourism, which often disconnects visitors from the local community. Awad emphasizes the crucial role of church leaders in promoting a more balanced and informed approach to pilgrimage, encouraging visitors to engage with local Palestinians. He highlights the work of the Siraj Center in fostering alternative tourism that prioritizes community interaction and peace-building. Through personal stories and transformative experiences, Awad illustrates how tourism can serve as a tool for peace, urging visitors to approach their journeys with open hearts and minds.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Michel discuss how church leaders and individuals can engage in pilgrimage experiences centered on justice and cultivating relationships with Palestinian Christian communities. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Michel Awad is the founder and owner of Angels Tours and Travel and the co-founder of Siraj Center where he works as the executive director. He is the President of the Holy Land Tour Operator Association and executive board member of the Network of Palestinian Tourism. Michel was a member of the Steering Committee for the Palestinian Initiative for Responsible Tourism (PIRT). Michel was also a member of the Palestinian Task Force for post-COVID19 Recovery and a member of the Palestinian Tourism Ministry Consultant Council. He was an instructor in Tourism Management in Bethlehem University from 2003 until 2023.Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Siraj Center- https://www.sirajcenter.org/index.php/en/Michel’s Tour Company, Angel Tours & Travel- https://www.angels-tours.com/  For more on sustainable and culturally resilient Palestinian tourism, see https://hlitoa.com/ 

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen has a conversation with Raphael Greenberg, an Israeli archaeologist focused on the political implications of archaeology in Israel/Palestine. Raphael shares his personal journey into archaeology, highlighting the intersection of science and politics, particularly in the context of Israeli-Palestinian relations. He discusses the colonial roots of archaeology and its entanglement with tourism, emphasizing how narratives are shaped to fit ideological perspectives. The conversation also touches on the City of David, where archaeology is used to support settler politics, raising critical questions about cultural heritage, modern tourism, and the implications for local communities. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Raphael discuss the importance of critical awareness for visitors to consider the context and implications of what they see. Raphael also shares about the current realities of conflict in Israel-Palestine, the impact on tourism, and the importance of engaging with local organizations for peace and justice. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Dr. Raphael (Rafi) Greenberg is Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University. His research has focused on the Bronze Age Levant and on the social and political entanglements of archaeology in Israel/Palestine. His most recent book, co-authored with Yannis Hamilakis, is Archaeology, Nation, and Race: Confronting the Past, Decolonizing the Future in Greece and Israel (Cambridge 2022). He also serves on the board of Emek Shaveh, an Israeli nonprofit devoted to heritage justice in Israel-Palestine.  If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.-Neil Asher Silberman, Digging for God & Country-Raphael Greenberg, Archaeology, Nation, and Race: Confronting the Past, Decolonizing the Future in Greece and Israel-Emek Shaveh-Rabbis for Human Rights

In this episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer has a conversation with Rev. Amy Graham about the transformative power of faith in driving justice and activism. They discuss Amy’s journey from West Virginia to co-founding The District Church in Washington, DC, and how her experiences in social work, pastoral ministry, and advocacy have shaped her understanding of the Gospel’s call to action. The conversation also highlights the role of faith communities in healing and advocacy, particularly in the context of Palestine, and the Church’s role in supporting justice and liberation for oppressed communities.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Abeer and Rev. Amy Graham discuss the unique challenges faced by women in leadership roles within faith-based spaces. Amy offers advice on navigating the balance between pastoral leadership, activism, and personal growth, while fostering courage and perseverance in the face of doubt and fatigue. To access this extended conversation and others, consider supporting us on Patreon⁠⁠. Rev. Amy Graham is one of the founding pastors of The District Church in Washington, DC. After receiving her Masters in Theological Studies from Golden Gate Seminary and her Masters in Social Work from Boston University, Amy has devoted her life to bringing the love and peace of Christ to desperate and dark places. She has worked as a pastor, counselor, social worker, and advocate for those in bondage to sin and those affected by the injustices of our world. From her trips leading groups to Israel/Palestine, the relationships that she has built, and the partnerships The District Church holds with those in the Holy Land, Amy has felt a particular call and burden to speak the truth in love on behalf of those suffering as a result of the genocide of the Palestinian people. Through her role as pastor, she has sought to support, encourage, and empower the voices of those living in the land.Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:https://districtchurch.org/

In episode 2 of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen talks with historian Stephanie Stidham Rogers about the history of Protestant pilgrimage in Palestine. They discuss the historical context and cultural influences in the 19th century that shaped the phenomenon of Western Christian tourism in Palestine. Stephanie explains how American Protestants viewed the Holy Land as a "frontier" and the role that Orientalism played in shaping their understanding of the land of the Bible and the people who inhabited it.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Stephanie discuss more of Stephanie's own journey and the marginalization of research on the Holy Land in the early 2000s . To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with ⁠Peace Catalyst International⁠ to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.You can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025Stephanie Stidham Rogers is an author, independent scholar, humanities expert, and semi-retired University Professor. She resides in both Seattle and Tampa with her husband and family. Stephanie's Published Books:-Inventing the Holy Land : American Protestant pilgrimage to Palestine, 1865-1941 - ⁠https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780739148426/Inventing-the-Holy-Land-American-Protestant-Pilgrimage-to-Palestine-1865%E2%80%931941⁠ -Suffragist Migration West after Seneca Falls, 1848–1871 - ⁠https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B004AO9MNS⁠

In this episode, Jen kicks off the "Touring the Holy Land" series by telling some important stories that are entangled in Holy Land tourism. She takes us back to the dawn of Christian pilgrimage to Palestine in the 4th century CE, and highlights some of the dominant narratives in the American Christian Holy Land tourism industry today. This episode features quotes from some of our listeners who have traveled to Palestine-Israel, and more of their stories will be woven throughout the series.Stay tuned in to the series as we explore the history of Christian tourism in the Holy Land , the role of biblical archaeology, the ways that tourism is shaped by Christian Zionism and the occupation, and the Palestinian and Israeli-led movement of alternative tourism.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.You can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025

In this episode of theFaith and Activism series, Abeer has a conversation with Amir Toumie about the enduring struggle to reclaim Iqrit—a small Christian village whose residents were forcibly displaced in 1948. They discuss the legal and social fight for the right of return, the unique role of faith in sustaining the community’s hope, and how Iqrit has become a powerful symbol of nonviolent resistance, rooted in spiritual and cultural identity.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Abeer and Amir delve into the unseen sacrifices and emotional costs of activism for Iqrit. They explore the personal and communal impact of this long-standing pursuit of justice and how faith continues to anchor the fight for dignity and return. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.Amir Toumieis a political and social activist for Palestinian liberation and rights in both the Palestinian communities in 48’ and Chicago. He worked as the Director of Government Relations at the Mossawa Center - The Advocacy Center for the Rights of Palestinian Citizens in Israel. As an activist, Amir co-founded and served as president of the Haifa Youth Movement and is a member of the youth movement in his displaced Palestinian village of Iqrit. While engaging in activism in multiple fields, he has earned a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science and Asian Studies from the University of Haifa and a dual Master's Degree in International Relations and Diplomacy from the University of Haifa and the University of Warsaw. Amir is now a 5th-year PhD candidate in Political Science at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) and a board member of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) at UIC.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at:https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Show Notes:https://www.zochrot.org/villages/village_details/48985/en?IqritIf you are interested to help Iqrit, or learn more, you can contact Amir at:amirtoumie@gmail.comInstagram: hrh_amirtoumie

For the series finale, Jen Maidrand joins Daniel Bannoura for a live recording where they discuss the series and answer questions from the audience. Apologies for some of the technical difficulties. This was our first livestream, but we'll make sure this won't happen in future streams. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠

In the episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer speaks with Dr. Beth Seversen about her research on Palestinian Christians young adults navigating discrimination and their resilience and sumud.In the extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Beth also shares more about cultural sensitivity in activism.To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.Beth holds a PhD in Intercultural Studies from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. She has served as Associate Professor of Youth and Christian Ministries at North Park University and Director of Evangelism for the Evangelical Covenant Church. Currently, she serves on the Board of the American Society of Missiology and as Vice President and Associate Editor of the Great Commission Research Network and Journal. She is the author of Not Done Yet: Reaching and Keeping Unchurched Emerging Adults.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at:https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivideFollow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners withPeace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes: Beth’s book:https://www.amazon.com/Not-Done-Yet-Reaching-Unchurched/dp/0830841571Beth’s Publications:https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ZJtnGnoAAAAJ&hl=enYou can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025

In the penultimate episode of our Christian Zionism series, rabbi Brant Rosen discusses his journey out of Jewish Zionism and his thoughts about the war in Gaza. For the rest of the conversation rabbi Rosen discusses Christian Zionism and the harms that he, as a Jewish person and a rabbi, sees in this sort of problematic and harmful Christian support for Jews and Israel. For Patreon supporters, Daniel and rabbi Brant discuss antisemitism and how it has been weaponized to silence and vilify any critique of the actions of the state of Israel at the expense of Palestinians suffering under occupation. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Rabbi Brant is a reconstructionist Jew and the rabbi of Tzedek Chicago synagogue in Chicago. He is a vocal activist for justice and human rights, particularly in Israel/Palestine. After publicly wrestling with his relationship to Israel and openly questioning his lifelong Zionism, he eventually became a prominent Jewish presence in the Palestine solidarity movement and co-founded the Jewish Voice for Peace Rabbinical Council. He has also written numerous essays on antisemitism, Zionism and “reclaiming Judaism from Zionism”, as well as a number of poems about Gaza and the situation in Palestine/Israel. Rabbi Brant Rosen's writings have appeared in many journals and publications, including Newsweek, the Chicago Tribune, the Jewish Forward, Tikkun and Truthout. He is also the author of the popular Jewish social justice blog, Shalom Rav; his curated collection of blog posts and reader comments, Wrestling in the Daylight: A Rabbi’s Path to Palestinian Solidarity was published by Just World Books in 2012 (updated in 2017).  Rabbi Brant has contributed essays to a number of anthologies including "Zionism and the Quest for Peace in the Holy Land," "On Antisemitism: Solidarity and the Struggle for Justice," and "Reclaiming Judaism from Zionism: Stories of Personal Transformation." He is also a prolific poet and liturgist whose prayers and poems can be found on his blog Yedid Nefesh. In 2018, Tzedek Chicago published his chapbook of prayers, "Songs After the Revolution: New Jewish Liturgy." If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Poems read in the episode: El Male Rachamim for Gaza For Gaza: Psalm 126

In this special episode, Daniel has a conversation with Najib George Awad, a Syrian theologian and historian, about the sudden fall of the Assad regime in Syria and the various challenges facing the Syrian people after this “incomplete revolution”. For our Patreon supporters, Najib and Daniel discuss Kalam (Muslim theology) and the rich history of Muslim-Christian debate in the Middle Ages. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Najib George Awad is a Syrian-American theologian and historian. He is an associate researcher at the Center for Comparative Theology and Social issues (CTSI) at Bonn University, Germany, and also at the protestant theological faculty at Charles University in the Czech Republic. His publications God without Face? On the Personal Individuation of the Holy Spirit, And Freedom Became a Public-Square: Political, Sociological and Religious Overviews on the Arab Christians and the Arabic Spring, Orthodoxy in Arabic Terms: A Study of Theodore Abū Qurrah’s Trinitarian and Christological Doctrines in an Islamic Context; Umayyad Christianity: John of Damascus as a Contextual Example of Identity-Formation in Early Islam; and After-Mission, Beyond Evangelicalism: The Indigenous ‘Injīliyyūn’ in the Arab-Muslim Context of Syria-Lebanon; and Contemporary Arabic Christian Theology (Regnum, 2024). If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Show Notes: Article by Najib Awad about the three challenges facing Syrians today: The Three Challenges for 'Liberated' Syria