Inverse Podcast

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This fifth conversation discusses Chapter Four of ***Who Will Be a Witness*** with preacher, activist, author and filmmaker Reverend Dr. Otis Moss III. Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III is senior pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. He is a preacher, activist, author and filmmaker with an eye toward justice and equality, as evidenced through the gospel of Jesus Christ. He founded the Unashamed Media Group, a justice centered faith-based agency committed to producing and curating stories to inspire the heart and challenge the mind. His most recent book is Blue Note **Preaching in a Post-Soul World: Finding Hope in an Age of Despair (**2015). Dr. Moss is ordained in the Progressive National Baptist Convention and the United Church of Christ. With civil rights advocacy in his DNA, Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III built his ministry on community advancement and social justice activism. Dr. Moss is part of a new generation of ministers committed to preaching a prophetic message of love and justice, which he believes are inseparable companions that form the foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He was recently recognized as one of the “12 Most Effective Preachers in the English-Speaking World” by Baylor University’s George W. Truett Theological Seminary. As part of his community engagement through Trinity United Church of Christ, Dr. Moss led the team that came up with the “My Life Matters” curriculum; which includes the viral video, “Get Home Safely: 10 Rules of Survival” created in the aftermath of Michael Brown’s death at the hands of Ferguson, Missouri police. A native of Cleveland, Ohio, Dr. Moss is an honors graduate of Morehouse College. He earned a Master of Divinity form Yale Divinity School and a Doctor of Ministry degree from Chicago Theological Seminary. He returned to Yale in 2014 to present the famed Lyman Beecher lectures. The three-day event included an in-depth discourse on the subject of “The Blue Note Gospel: Preaching the Prophetic Blues in a Post Soul World.” The lectures, which demonstrated a homiletic blueprint for prophetic preaching in the 21st century, were the foundation of his latest book. With a unique gift to communicate across generations, Dr. Moss’ creative Bible-based messages have inspired young and old alike. His intergenerational preaching gift has made Dr. Moss a popular speaker on college campuses, at conferences, and churches across the globe. He is highly influenced by the works of Zora Neale Hurston, August Wilson, Howard Thurman, Jazz, and Hip-Hop music. The work and legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and the pastoral ministry of his father, Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, Jr. of Cleveland, Ohio, have been primary mentors for his spiritual formation. The founder of Unashamed Media Group, a justice centered, faith-based agency committed to producing and curating stories to inspire the heart and challenge the mind, Dr. Moss is the recipient of a 2016 NAACP Image award for his work, which includes providing biblical context and theological support to a myriad of groups and causes, including the #BlackLivesMatter and the #Occupy movements. His earlier publications include: **Redemption in a Red Light District**, and **The Gospel According to the Wiz: And Other Sermons from Cinema.** He co-authored **The Gospel Re-Mix; How to Reach the Hip-Hop Generation **with three other contributors, and **Preach! The Power and Purpose Behind Our Praise,** with his father. His sermons, articles, and poetry have appeared in publications such as Sojourners Magazine and The African American Pulpit Journal. Those works include: Power in the Pulpit II: America’s Most Effective Preachers, Joy To The World: Sermons From America’s Pulpit; Sound The Trumpet: Messages of Hope for Black Men; and The Audacity of Faith: Christian Leaders Reflect on the Election of Barack Obama. His work has also been featured on HuffPost, Urban Cusp, and The Root. Follow Otis Moss III on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/om3) @om3, [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/otismossiii/) @otismossiii and [Facebook](http://https://www.facebook.com/people/Otis-Moss-III/). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This fourth conversation discusses Chapter Three of Who Will Be a Witness with minister and podcast host Brandi Miller. Based out of the Northwest, Brandi Miller is a staff member and justice program director with InterVarsity. She pens an op-ed for the HuffPost at the intersection of faith, justice, and politics to curate content that moves the Church forward in living out the holistic gospel. She also is the creator and host of a podcast called **Reclaiming My Theology**. She says of the podcast, "**Reclaiming My Theology** is a podcast and community taking our theology back from ideas and systems that oppress. For over a decade, I have been exploring, unlearing, and reimagining my faith outside of systemic oppression and want to bring you along with me! Each season of the podcast will be a deep dive into a form of systemic oppression and ask how the values of oppressive ideas shape our hearts, minds, politics, and lived experiences. There are so many things to reclaim our theology from: white supremacy, patriarchy and misogyny, capitalism, homophobia, ableism and more." Follow Brandi on [Twitter](https://twitter.com/BrandiNico) and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/brandinico) @brandinico and support her on Patreon [here](http://https://www.patreon.com/brandinico ) @brandinico.

David Dark is a lifelong educator in Nashville. He teaches among incarcerated communities and is on the faculty of the College of Theology at Belmont University. He's also the author of The Possibility of America, The Sacredness of Questioning Everything, & Everyday Apocalypse. Follow David Dark on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/DavidDark) @DavidDark. Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This third conversation discusses Chapter Two of Who Will Be a Witness with minister and author Dominique DuBois Gilliard. Dominique DuBois Gilliard is the Director of Racial Righteousness and Reconciliation for the Love Mercy Do Justice (LMDJ) initiative of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC). He is the author of Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice that Restores, which won the 2018 Book of the Year Award for InterVarsity Press. Gilliard also serves on the board of directors for the Christian Community Development Association and Evangelicals for Justice. In 2015, he was selected as one of the ECC’s “40 Under 40” leaders to watch, and the Huffington Post named him one of the “Black Christian Leaders Changing the World.” An ordained minister, Gilliard has served in pastoral ministry in Atlanta, Chicago, and Oakland. He was executive pastor of New Hope Covenant Church in Oakland, California and also served in Oakland as the associate pastor of Convergence Covenant Church. He was also a campus minister at North Park University and the racial righteousness director for ECC’s ministry initiatives in the Pacific Southwest Conference. Gilliard earned a bachelor’s degree in African American Studies from Georgia State University and a master’s degree in history from East Tennessee State University, with an emphasis on race, gender, and class in the United States. He also earned an MDiv from North Park Seminary, where he served as an adjunct professor teaching Christian ethics, theology, and reconciliation. Follow Dominque on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/DDGilliard) @DDGilliard and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/dominiquedgilliard/) @dominiquedgilliard Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This first conversation discusses Chapter One of Who Will Be a Witness with activist and author, D.L Mayfield D. L. Mayfield lives and writes on the outskirts of Portland, Oregan with her husband and two small children. Her first book of essays, *Assimilate or Go Home: Notes from a Failed Missionary on Rediscovering Faith* was released by HarperOne in 2016. Her second book, *The Myth of the American Dream: Reflections on Affluence, Autonomy, Safety, and Power* was released in April 2020. Her writing has appeared in a variety of places, including *McSweeneys, Christianity Today, Sojourners, The Washington Post, Image Journal, Vox, and The Rumpus*, among many others. She has been very active in the BLM protests in Portland. Her previous conversation entitled The Bad News of Jesus (and Covid 19) on the Inverse Podcast can be found [here](http://https://inverse.podiant.co/e/d-l-mayfield-the-bad-news-of-jesus-and-covid-19-385ff9a08d8eb8/). Follow D.L. Mayfield on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/d_l_mayfield) and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/d_l_mayfield/) @d_l_mayfield Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

As a special bonus for our listeners, we have created a series to commemorate Inverse Podcast co-host Dr Drew Hart's brand new book *Who Will Be a Witness: Igniting Activism For God's Justice, Love and Deliverance.* In these additional episodes we will interview friends and co-workers to discuss chapter by chapter Drew's new book. These conversations were recorded in community with friends from around the world as past of Inverse's ongoing work to create formation experiences that deepen our witness to God's justice, love and deliverance. *Who Will Be a Witness* offers a vision for communities of faith to organize for deliverance and justice in their neighborhoods, states, and nation as an essential part of living out the call of Jesus. Drew provides incisive insights into Scripture and history, along with illuminating personal stories, to help us identify how the witness of the church has become mangled by Christendom, white supremacy, and religious nationalism. He provides a wide range of options for congregations seeking to give witness to Jesus' ethic of love for and solidarity with the vulnerable. At a time when many feel disillusioned and distressed, Drew calls the church to action, offering a way forward that is deeply rooted in the life and witness of Jesus. Drew's testimony is powerful, personal, and profound, serving as a compass that points the church to the future and offers us a path toward meaningful social change and a more faithful witness to the way of Jesus. (Buy Drew's new book [here](http://https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Be-Witness-Deliverance/dp/1513806580/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=who+will+be+a+witness&qid=1599640684&s=books&sr=1-1).) This first conversation discusses the Introduction of Who Will Be a Witness with activist, author, and speaker Shane Claiborne. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane’s books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, Common Prayer, Follow Me to Freedom, Jesus, Bombs and Ice Cream, Becoming the Answer to Our Prayers, Executing Grace, his classic The Irresistible Revolution, and his newest book, Beating Guns. He has been featured in a number of films including "Another World Is Possible" and "Ordinary Radicals." His books have been translated into more than a dozen languages. Shane speaks over one hundred times a year, nationally and internationally. His work has appeared in Esquire, SPIN, Christianity Today, TIME, and The Wall Street Journal, and he has been on everything from Fox News and Al Jazeera to CNN and NPR. He’s given academic lectures at Harvard, Princeton, Liberty, Duke, and Notre Dame. Shane speaks regularly at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe. Follow Shane on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/ShaneClaiborne). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna Song: *We Fly Free* by Julie Kerr

Marlena is a writer, deep thinker, and speaker who is passionate about the eternal implications of our life in God. In this conversation, Marlena explores Philippians 2:1-16 in light of her new book, "The Way Up Is Down: Becoming Yourself by Forgetting Yourself." In this book, Marlena describes the process of emptying herself that allows her to move upward toward God and become the true self that God calls her to. Drawing on the rich traditions of Eastern and Western Christian saints, she shares stories and insights that have enlivened her transformation. For Marlena, formation and justice always intertwine on the path to a balanced life of both action and contemplation. She is a lover of beauty - especially the beauty of her family, others, and creation. Marlena is a justice seeker—trying to overcome evil with good. She is most concerned with those who profess to follow Jesus but speak and behave so unlike him. She includes herself in the mix and therefore seeks to bridge the gap between what Christians profess to believe and how they live. She speaks regularly to congregations, university campuses, and to retreatants about the implications of following Jesus. Follow Marlena on [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/MarlenaGraves) and [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/marlena.graves/). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Nekeisha Alayna Alexis is a Black Trinidadian woman, academic-activist situated in the U.S.A. who has worked on a number of issues affecting marginalized communities, from anti-war organizing in New York City to the ongoing efforts to restore a local community center in Elkhart. She writes, publishes, and speaks on racism and white supremacy, intersectionality, and animal liberation. A theological Anabaptist with meaningful experiences in Catholic, non-denominational, and African Methodist Episcopal (AME) traditions, Nekeisha helps to maintain “Jesus Radicals”, which is focused on undoing oppressions from a framework of anarchist politics and liberative Christianity. Read more about Nekeisha's work [here](http://https://www.ambs.edu/about/people/749314/nekeisha-alayna-alexis). Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart. Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

Van Badham is Jordan Peterson’s favourite Marxist Christian to mock. Writer, Activist, co-host of the Weekly On Wednesday podcast and regular columnist for The Guardian, Van is a prolific voice for justice. In this episode, Drew and Jarrod discuss Luke 3:1-20 with Van, and discuss her faith, her love for Karl Marx, and her opposition to all forms of authoritarianism, as a Christian Marxist. Follow Van Badham on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/vanbadham/) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/vanbadham) @vanbadham Follow Drew Hart on [Instagram](http://http://instagram.com/druhart) and [Twitter](http://https://twitter.com/druhart) @druhart Follow Jarrod McKenna on [Instagram](http://https://www.instagram.com/jarrodmckenna) and [Twitter](http://jarrodmckenna) @jarrodmckenna

In this moment we need to hear from Pastor Sandra Van Opstal. Celebrity worship pastors using their social media to shut down people lifting up Amos. Other celebrity worship leaders lead revivals that provide the soundtrack for Trump-style white supremacy that risks more lives during a pandemic that has claimed the lives of 163,000 people in the U.S.A. already. All this to sing over the top of people protesting injustices, sometimes literally in the places people like George Floyd have been murdered, without the family’s permission or the communities consent. When we thought of people to speak into this reality, the incredible work, witness and writing of our friend Pastor Sandra Van Opstal came to mind. Sandra Van Opstal latest book is called “The Next Worship” and captures some of her international leadership to see the church embrace every tribe and tongue as we become a worshiping people pursuing justice. Pastor Sandra is a second-generation Latina and the co-founder and Executive Director of Chasing Justice and Executive Pastor for Grace and Peace Community. Sandra Van Opstal lives on the west-side of Chicago [USA] with her husband and two boys where she works as a liturgist, author, pastor and justice activist at the intersection of poverty, race and global mission. https://chasingjustice.com/about/ Featured on this episode: Pastor Sandra Van Opstal Drew Hart Jarrod McKenna