

MinistryWatch Podcast
Warren Smith and Natasha Smith
Transparency and accountability are vital to the renewal of the evangelical church in America. Hosts Warren Smith and Natasha Smith highlight the top stories of the week from the unique MinistryWatch perspective and give you a peek behind the curtain to show why and how we do the investigations we do.
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Aug 23, 2024 • 26min
Ep. 387: Gateway Church, Megan Basham, Turning Point USA, and More
On today’s program, Gateway Church in Dallas, Texas, continues to struggle in the aftermath of sexual abuse allegations against its founder Robert Morris—including NEW sexual abuse allegations, the cancellation of its annual Gateway conference, and more. We’ll look at the latest.
And, Megan Basham is under fire from fellow journalists for naming an alleged sexual assault victim in her new book ‘Shepherds for Sale.’ We’ll have details.
Plus, the largest seminaries in the U.S.
But first, election season is in full swing, and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk is urging pastors to mobilize their churches for Trump.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Tony Mator, Kim Roberts, Zach Rivas, Mallory Challis, Scott Barkley, Chloë-Arizona Fodor, Jeffrey Walton, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
Special thanks to Baptist Press, Baptist News Global, and the Institute on Religion & Democracy for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.
MANUSCRIPT
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, Gateway Church in Dallas, Texas, continues to struggle in the aftermath of sexual abuse allegations against its founder Robert Morris—including NEW sexual abuse allegations, the cancellation of its annual Gateway conference, and more. We’ll look at the latest.
And, Megan Basham is under fire from fellow journalists for naming an alleged sexual assault victim in her new book ‘Shepherds for Sale.’ We’ll have details.
Plus, the largest seminaries in the U-S.
Natasha:
But first, election season is in full swing, and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk is urging pastors to mobilize their churches for Trump.
Warren:
Point USA (TPUSA) founder Charlie Kirk pulled no punches in his keynote address to pastors gathered for a July 31-Aug. 2 political training conference in a Dallas, Texas, suburb.
His message: Pastors need to vote for Donald Trump, they need to become activists, and they need to mobilize their congregations to do likewise.
“There is only one way to save this country,” Kirk said. “Awake the beast that is the American church.”
A lot of online commentators said that Kirk had a lot of fun with the unintended irony of Kirk’s statement. They noted that in Scripture, the word “beast” is often used to describe Satan, while the preferred metaphors for describing the church in Scripture is not beast, but Bride of Christ or Body of Christ.
Natasha:
That wasn’t the only irony of this event.
Warren:
While the “Igniting the Remnant Pastors” conference was ostensibly nonpartisan the event provided a receptive audience for Kirk’s overt endorsement of Trump.
Natasha:
Tell us more about Kirk’s talk, I heard he talked tough and hurled some insults.
Warren:
He said, “The American church is a joke in this country,” he said. “It is a church filled with cowards and people that call themselves pastors but are really motivational speakers.
Natasha:
Next, the latest in the ongoing saga of Gateway Church
Warren:
Gateway Church, the Dallas-area megachurch started by Robert Morris, is facing additional sexual abuse allegations in addition to those revealed against Morris earlier this summer that led to his resignation.
Last week, a lawsuit was filed in Tarrant County, Texas, alleging a 17-year-old member of the Gateway Church youth group sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl also attending the church youth group.
The alleged assault took place in 2017.
Natasha:
The lawsuit names Gabriel Reece Snyder, now 25, and Gateway Church as defendants. It asserts that Gateway was negligent in failing to prevent the alleged assaults and is seeking over $1 million in damages.
Warren:
The alleged victim’s parents accuse Gateway of providing “little or no supervision” by the church’s “youth counselors, pastors, leaders, chaperones, or volunteers.”
According to the lawsuit, Snyder used “biblical beliefs and teachings of…Gateway’s pastor and ministers” to convince his alleged victim it was God’s will that she submit to him.
Natasha:
This isn’t the first time Snyder has been accused
Warren:
No, Snyder was convicted on a different offense of sexual assault of a child, and is currently serving prison time at the Hightower Unit in Dayton, Texas, with an anticipated release in October 2024, CBS News Texas reported.
The alleged victim, Julia Long, chose to reveal her identity and make her story public as part of her healing.
Natasha:
Gateway recently settled another, similar lawsuit.
Warren:
That lawsuit accused church leadership of covering up the alleged sexual abuse of a child by a member of the congregation in March 2018. The lawsuit, filed in 2020, also claimed that Gateway pastors encouraged members of the congregation to ostracize her and failed to inform law enforcement about the abuse.
Gateway said the events in the 2020 lawsuit did not occur on any Gateway campus nor at a Gateway event.
Natasha:
In light of the ongoing controversy regarding allegations against Morris, Gateway Church decided to cancel its annual conference.
Warren:
A statement on the confrence’s website reads: “We want to let you know that after much prayer and consideration, we have decided not to hold Gateway Conference in 2024. Our congregation and staff are in the midst of navigating Robert Morris’ resignation and the emotions surrounding it.”
The church apologized for the inconvenience and promised refunds to those already registered.
Natasha:
Warren, what’s our next story?
Warren:
A South Carolina woman faces charges after local police said she stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from a church in Greenwood County, just south of Greenville.
Shelley Strickland, 54, was arrested Aug. 9 after confessing to stealing $404,414 from First Baptist Church of Ware Shoals, SC. She may face additional charges for theft at other nearby churches.
Natasha:
How’d she get access to the funds?
Warren:
The Ware Shoals Police Department said Strickland worked as the church’s financial secretary since 2017 and began her theft scheme in 2019 to pay for credit cards and personal expenses. Strickland took from many accounts, including the church’s emergency fund.
A pastor became aware of the issue when a new financial secretary reported discrepancies in the church’s finances. The scheme reportedly continued until February 2024.
Strickland’s husband, Mark Strickland, is pastor of First Damascus Baptist church in nearby Bradley, SC. The couple lives in a parsonage owned by the church.
If convicted, Shelley Strickland faces up to 10 years in prison.
Natasha:
Our next story has a similar theme.
Warren:
A former United Methodist pastor in Nebraska was sentenced for embezzling money from the church he pastored.
Joseph Schumacher, 43, was arrested in November for unauthorized use of a financial transaction device and theft by deception, according to KSID-FM.
In June, he pleaded guilty to two reduced charges of attempted theft and was sentenced last week to consecutive 90-day sentences and 12 months of probation. He was also ordered to pay $6,740 in restitution, KHYY reported.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, Megan Basham named an alleged sexual assault victim in her New York Times bestselling book ‘Shepherds for Sale.’ Fellow journalists are pushing back, calling the move unethical.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break. Megan Basham is being criticized for naming Johnny Hunt’s sexual abuse accuser in her new book.
Warren:
Robert Downen, who was a key reporter about the SBC sex abuse scandal when he worked for the Houston Chronicle, criticized Basham for revealing the accuser’s name in her book, Shepherds for Sale”
Downen said that Apparently, Basham found the name in a court document where it was not redacted and chose to publish it.
Natasha:
Are their rules about sharing identity if it’s in a public document?
Warren:
According to the Society of Professional Journalist’s code of ethics, victims of sexual crimes should be “shown compassion” and treated with “heightened sensitivity.” It also calls on journalists to “recognize that legal access to information differs from an ethical justification to publish or broadcast.”
Downen argues that While Basham may have legally found the name of Hunt’s accuser, that doesn’t give her “a greenlight to abandon basic ethics. Nor do you get to abandon basic ethics because you find the allegations questionable, or you’ve decided that a victim is less of a victim than they say.”
Natasha:
How has Basham responded?
Warren:
Basham wrote on X that she had reasons for naming Hunt’s accusers.
She wrote: “I do think when you make public accusations (especially when you aren’t willing to take them to actual authorities like the police or a court) you should be obligated to stand behind them. Then your character and credibility can be evaluated as well. Anything else allows for a system of secret accusers who can enact character assassination while facing no scrutiny themselves.”
Basham did not respond to MinistryWatch’s question about whether she reached out to the Hunt accuser to ask permission or inform her that she’d be named in the book.
Natasha:
Next is the latest for Kanakuk Camps.
Warren:
Logan Yandell’s lawsuit alleging misdeeds by Kanakuk Kamps and other relevant entities, including ACE American Insurance Co., has been amended to include civil conspiracy claims.
Warren:
The amended lawsuit alleges that all defendants named in the lawsuit, including Kanakuk Kamps, ACE Insurance and all relevant entities, conspired individually and together to commit acts of fraud. The lawsuit says each defendant benefitted in some professional or financial way from the choice to make false claims to survivors and their families.
Natasha:
How do they argue that?
Warren:
Yandell alleges he and many other survivors who settled under false pretenses due to this civil conspiracy have suffered long-lasting damages.
Natasha:
Our next story is on a creative way to help refugees.
Warren:
While refugees’ initial days and months in America can be complex and filled with paperwork and immigration meetings, churches have learned there are direct, simple ways to meet needs.
Not long after it began six years ago, Living Hope Church in Columbus was helping deliver donated furniture on behalf of a group of non-profit organizations. It became apparent that the items were going toward a growing migrant population consisting of those from the Middle East and Central America.
Natasha:
And those immigrants have a lot of needs, how did they choose to help meet them?
Warren:
They opened a furniture store next to the church that now serves 12-20 families a month on average, It stays stocked through approximately 12 non- or for-profit groups, so it doesn’t cost the church.
Natasha:
How do they stock the store?
Warren:
Sometimes new mattresses arrive by way of a nonprofit donation. Coffeemakers and toasters get to the shelves through Walmart overstock. Recliners and other furniture items with small scratches or dents that prevent them from making the showroom floor are more than suitable for clients of the Living Hope ministry center.
Natasha:
They’re not the only church using their resources to help refugees.
Warren:
Further east, about 20 members of Pillar Church in Dumfries, Va., help with the English as a Second Language classes that benefit primarily those who have fled Afghanistan since the Taliban retook the country in 2021.
The people that church serves are not believers, but the time together has led to discussions about faith, as well as the creation of a multilingual, multiethnic service at the church.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
Before the break, we shared about churches serving refugees in their own backyard. Now, the Pew Research Center has released data showing that nearly half of the world’s migrants are Christians.
Warren:
The world’s 280 million immigrants have greater shares of Christians than the general population, according to a new Pew Research Center study released Monday (Aug. 19).
While Christians make up about 30% of the world’s population, the world’s migrants are 47% Christian, according to the latest data collected in 2020.
Pew studied data from 270 censuses and surveys, estimating the religious composition of migrants from 95,696 combinations of 232 origin and destination countries and territories.
The most common path for Christian migrants is from Mexico to the U.S., Pew found. They are typically looking for jobs, improved safety or to reunite with family members.
Natasha:
What’s Next?
Warren:
In 2016 Chelsen Vicari reviewed figures collected by the Association of Theological Schools (ATS) to compile a list of full-time student enrollment among accredited schools to get a better picture of the largest seminaries in the United States.
Reports from the 2023-24 academic year are now publicly available, prompting this follow-up piece. Some of the rankings have changed, but the trends Chelsen first identified in 2016 have continued.
Natasha:
How have things shifted?
Warren:
Liberty Theological Seminary now ranks largest with 4,050 full-time enrolled students and a headcount of 5,507 (the institution has a sizable online enrollment).
Fuller Theological Seminary, the largest seminary by enrollment in 2016, has dropped by more than half to 657 full-time enrolled students. It no longer ranks in the top 10 for FTE, and ranks 8th largest in headcount (1,614).
Baptist-affiliated schools, including Liberty, continue to have the largest enrollments. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and Gateway Seminary all appear in the top 10.
All of the largest seminaries in the country are evangelical, and no mainline Protestant institutions rank in the top 10.
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
This month, Good News Productions, International (GNPI) saw its Transparency Grade change from a C to a D.
The organization, headquartered in Joplin, Missouri, does not release a form 990 to the public.
According to its website, “GNPI creates relevant media to proclaim the Good News and empower Jesus followers to do the same. We do this through a network of international teams, who use all forms of media to reach the hearts of their people and multiply disciples across the globe.”
According to a limited financial profile with the ECFA, GNPI saw a significant jump in revenue between 2021 and 2022. In 2021, the ministry had revenue of $2.2 million; just a year later, its total revenue was $10.7 million.
Its net assets also rose from $1.4 million in 2020 to $10.9 million in 2023.
Tom Nutt, vice president of operations, told MinistryWatch the increase was from an “unexpected estate gift.”
GNPI does not post its financial information publicly.
Natasha:
And who did Christina highlight in her Ministries Making a Difference column?
Warren:
Uncharted Ministries is helping to pay off the debts of Christian families in Pakistan who have become enslaved to brickyard owners who promise freedom but, through high interest rates and deceptive bookkeeping, fail to deliver. So far, the ministry has helped free 21 families. Uncharted Ministries has 5 stars and an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 97.
Outreach Aid to the Americas (OAA) helped lead the International Hurricane Seminar 2024 in Mexico this spring, aimed at equipping airports to respond in natural disasters, including preparing for humanitarian aid reception and developing effective communication chains. The ministry serves “vulnerable communities in Central America and the Caribbean through relief assistance, development programs, and freedom of religion or belief advocacy.” OAA has 5 stars and an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 98.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Webinar – How To Read A Form 990.
AI Text to Audio experiment on podcast.
Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Tony Mator, Kim Roberts, Zach Rivas, Mallory Challis, Scott Barkley, Chloë-Arizona Fodor, Jeffrey Walton, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
Special thanks to Baptist Press, Baptist News Global, and the Institute on Religion & Democracy for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time,

Aug 22, 2024 • 6min
Ep. 386: With Coffee Tables, and Over Coffee Churches find simple, direct ways to serve refugees
COLUMBUS, Ohio (BP) – It happens with a couch or mattress. It happens with two chairs facing each other across a table.
While refugees’ initial days and months in America can be complex and filled with paperwork and immigration meetings, churches have learned there are direct, simple ways to meet needs.
Not long after it began six years ago, Living Hope Church in Columbus was helping deliver donated furniture on behalf of a group of non-profit organizations. It became apparent that the items were going toward a growing migrant population consisting of those from the Middle East and Central America.
The white, middle-class community that Aaron Taylor, Living Hope’s pastor, had grown up in was rapidly changing.
Members of Living Hope Church in Columbus, Ohio, load items for its ministry center / Photo by Aaron Taylor
“There are pockets of these communities around with people moving in from all over the world, and it opened our eyes,” he said.
The need grew, and soon the church took it on as its own. It began with a question to their non-profit partners: What would they like to see available to the refugee population?
The answer was a furniture store.
“About five months after that, we opened a ministry center next to our church that now serves 12-20 families a month on average,” Taylor said. “It stays stocked through approximately 12 non- or for-profit groups, so it doesn’t cost the church.”
Sometimes new mattresses arrive by way of a nonprofit donation. Coffeemakers and toasters get to the shelves through Walmart overstock. Recliners and other furniture items with small scratches or dents that prevent them from making the showroom floor are more than suitable for clients of the Living Hope ministry center.
“When we step in, in many cases we’re able to provide the large items for, say, a two-bedroom apartment,” Taylor said. “It changes the game for families.”
One essential need has brought major benefits to children trying to acclimate to American schools.
“We’ve provided children with beds and have heard back from school counselors that the child came to their school and had low grades and was always tired. They would have a lot of emotions to process still,” Taylor said. “They’ll get a bed of their own and six or eight weeks later the counselors will say it isn’t the same kid. Their entire demeanor has shifted.”
Further east, about 20 members of Pillar Church in Dumfries, Va., help with the English as a Second Language classes that benefit primarily those who have fled Afghanistan since the Taliban retook the country in 2021.
Pastor Colby Garman said the benefits go both ways.
“The conversations with our people have brought another level of understanding [for the situation],” he said. “It puts a face on what is a challenging problem and what it’s like to build a new life in America.”
His wife Annie taught ESL for years in public schools and brought those concepts to the English immersion classes.
The people his church serves are not believers, but the time together has led to discussions about faith.
“Many of them had family members who were killed and they’re trying to figure out what’s next. It has become an open door for the Gospel,” said Garman, whose church lies just south of Washington, D.C., and is located near Marine Corps Base Quantico, where more than 3,700 Afghan refugees were received and cared for when the Taliban took over.
In Columbus, Taylor has seen similar benefits to his church stepping forward to help.
“It’s been good for us,” he said. “I remember [former SBC president] J.D. Greear asking years ago that if our church closed its doors, would the community know we were gone? This has been a good way for us to establish a presence for our church that is meeting a tangible need.
“It has also led us to become a multilingual, multiethnic church. We have people from seven nations. Our worship services are two languages. We’re starting to see the diversity of the community finally reflected in our church.”
This article was originally published by Baptist Press. It is reprinted with permission.

Aug 21, 2024 • 21min
Ep. 385: Al Fadi on the Hijazi Bible Translation Project
Today I welcome back to the program Al Fadi, with the Strategic Resource Group, an organization that funds projects to reach unreached people groups in the Middle East and North Africa, the so-called MENA region of the world. Al has been on the program before to discuss a bible translation project for Hejazi speaking people. This is an Arabic language spoken by more than 11 million people.
More than three years ago, I started reporting on a new initiative by the Strategic Resource Group that – if successful – could have a dramatic impact on the way we do Bible translation. They are using a so-called Translation Service Provider – an organization that normally translates contracts, treaties, movie scripts, books, and all manner of other material – to translate the Bible. I wrote my first article about this process in August of 2021.
But one aspect of this project that is different from those undertaken by traditional Bible translation organizations is the remarkable degree of transparency SRG has shown to me in the process. Since this project began, I have been checking in with them every six months to get updates, and to hear lessons learned. And that’s what we are doing today.
The very fact that Al and SRG are allowing me to have these regular check-ins is dramatically different from the way the Bible translation industry normally operates. It’s an industry cloaked in secrecy and layers of bureaucracy. In fact, for the past four years or so, I’ve written about 50 articles on the industry and its practices, and I’ll have links to some of those articles in today’s show notes. I encourage you to check them out: https://ministrywatch.com/bible-translations/
I’d like to remind you that MinistryWatch is donor supported. We take no money from ministries. All of our content is free. No paywall. That means we couldn’t do what we do without faithful donors. You guys are the real heroes of this enterprise. So if you’d like to join that heroic group by pitching in to make sure that MinistryWatch remains a viable endeavor, you can go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the “donate” button at the top of the page.
And if you donate in the month of August, we’ll send you, as our thank you, a digital subscription to WORLD Magazine. This subscription has a $50 value, but is yours with a donation of any size to MinistryWatch.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, technical, and editorial support from Stephen DuBarry, Christina Darnell, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Aug 16, 2024 • 26min
Ep. 384: Dave Ramsey, Andrew Wommack, Gordon College
On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case.
And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table.
Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado.
But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, and Brittany Smith.
Until next time, may God bless you.
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case.
And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table.
Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado.
Natasha:
But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims.
Warren:
Like many colleges and organizations in 2020, Gordon College received COVID relief funds as part of the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP). But when the Massachusetts-based college applied for forgiveness, the Small Business Administration (SBA) denied its request on the $7 million loan.
Gordon then sued the SBA for violating its free exercise of religion, equal protection, and due process rights, along with violations of the Administrative Procedure Act.
U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell in the District of Columbia dismissed most of the claims brought by Gordon College in a memorandum opinion issued in late July.
In her opinion, Howell said the SBA had sought follow-up documentation from Gordon College because the “employee count” was “indicative of concern.”
Natasha:
How so?
Warren:
In April 2020, Gordon submitted its PPP application with 495.67 employees listed. It reached this number using the full-time equivalent method, which counts part-time employees as a fraction of an employee.
A spokesperson for the college told MinistryWatch. “Gordon College followed the procedures given at the time of the loan application and most importantly, used these funds completely in the manner in which they were presented by the SBA: to avoid layoffs of employees and continue to provide them with a paycheck even though the College was forced to shut down operations for months in 2020,”
Natasha:
So what’s the issue?
Warren:
The court recited that in later documents, the school “self-reported” 639 employees at the Massachusetts campus, which exceeded the maximum count of 500 employees allowed under the program.
Gordon College told MinistryWatch that when it applied for loan forgiveness in July 2021, the SBA had changed its language to “headcount” methodology rather than the full-time equivalent method. “This change by the SBA of the method of reporting employees is the basis for this dispute,”
The college brought multiple claims to the court.
The judge dismissed all claims against the SBA.
In the MinistryWatch database, Gordon College has a two-star financial efficiency rating, an A transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 82.
Natasha:
We’ll stay in the courthouse for the next story concerning a new ruling against Dave Ramsey’s Company.
Warren:
A federal appeals court has ruled in favor of a former employee who claimed Ramsey Solutions, the company run by Christian personal finance guru Dave Ramsey, discriminated against him during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brad Amos, a former video editor at the Franklin, Tennessee-based company, sued Ramsey Solutions in 2021, saying he was fired for not agreeing with Ramsey’s faith-based views about how to respond to the pandemic.
Natasha:
Can you explain what he means by that?
Warren:
During the pandemic, Dave Ramsey downplayed the risk of COVID-19, referred to those who wear masks as “wusses,” barred employees from working at home and said his company would be guided by faith not fear. Amos’ attorneys alleged that at the Lampo Group — which does business as Ramsey Solutions — wearing a mask or social distancing was seen as “against the will of God,” and employees were required to agree with Ramsey’s beliefs about the pandemic.
Attorneys for Amos also claimed that his faith, including Amos’ belief in the so-called Golden Rule — doing unto others as you would have them do unto you — required him to mask, social distance and comply with other CDC recommendations during the pandemic.
His insistence on doing so, Amos alleged, led to his firing.
Natasha:
In December, a U.S. District Court had dismissed both the discrimination and fraud claims before they went to trial, saying Amos had failed to show he was discriminated against. But now there’s a new ruling
Warren:
On Thursday (Aug. 8), the Sixth Circuit ruled that the district court had erred in dismissing Amos’ discrimination claim. The court ruled that federal law protects employees from discrimination based on “religious non-conformity” — also known as reverse discrimination, or requiring an employee to follow a religious belief or practice.
The Sixth Circuit Court also ruled that a belief in the Golden Rule qualified as a religious claim and was protected from discrimination.
The case will now return to the lower district court for trial.
Ramsey Solutions did not respond to a request for comment.
Natasha:
Next, NC Megachurch Pastor Divorces Wife
Warren:
Gilbert Andre Thompson Jr., pastor of megachurch World Overcomers Christian Church in Durham, N.C., has divorced his wife of 33 years. The divorce was final on July 1.
Now, under normal circumstances we would not report the divorce of a pastor. But this situation is a bit different. As part of the divorce proceedings, the assets of Pastor Andy Thompson, as he is known, came to light.
Natasha:
What did that reveal?
Warren:
He apparently lives in a home valued at $2.85 million. The real estate website Zillow shows the home in Mebane, N.C., is over 10,000 square feet with four bedrooms and six bathrooms, a pool, a hot tub, and a gym.
County property records list the owner as Restore Community Development Corporation, a North Carolina non-profit corporation.
Natasha:
There’s quite a list as the couple divvies up the assets
Warren:
Andy Thompson will pay his ex-wife $12,000 per month in alimony for nine years.
Natasha:
The couple had four children together, all of whom are now adults.
Warren:
Andy Thompson founded World Overcomers Christian Church in 2003. It claims over 15,000 members. According to his biography on the church website, Thompson authored a book titled “Real Love Marriage,” which it claims was an “impactful, life-changing tool that [is] redefining marriage and family dynamics in the modern era.”
He also founded the Overcomers Christian Fellowship to influence and minister to other church pastors.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, nearly 12-hundred Southern Baptist churches in North Carolina participate in a week of service.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break. Many churches use summer for international missions work—but North Carolina Southern Baptists envisioned something closer to home.
Warren:
A total of 1,169 mostly Southern Baptist churches in 92 of North Carolina’s 100 counties participated in the ServeNC effort, fielding volunteers for a week of service helping vulnerable populations, including homeless people, orphans, prisoners, refugees and the elderly.
Todd Unzicker, executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention said “In my almost 20 years of being a Christian, I can’t remember a time that a group of churches this large was doing something like this together,”
Natasha:
What kind of work did they accomplish?
Warren:
In Winston-Salem, Calvary Baptist Church packed 750 school backpacks. First Baptist Church of Raeford built a wheelchair ramp for a couple in the community. Friendship Southern Baptist Church in Concord put on a “Senior Prom Night” at a local nursing home. Salem Baptist Church in Dobson stocked shelves and bagged groceries at a local food pantry.
Natasha:
What’s our next story?
Warren:
In 2022, Mark Rivera, a former Anglican lay minister, was convicted of felony child sexual assault three years after a young girl told her mother that he had abused her. Months later, he pled guilty to felony sexual assault, nearly three years after his neighbor reported that Rivera had raped her.
From the first, his survivors said, authorities in the Anglican Church in North America’s Upper Midwest Diocese had been slow to respond, and casual about informing their fellow church members. several of Rivera’s victims went public about the obstacles they faced in reporting Rivera’s misconduct, and, ever since, a group of ACNA members has been clamoring for the denomination to revise its abuse prevention protocols.
Natasha:
What’s the latest?
Warren:
At its June meeting in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, the denomination’s governing bodies added two sections to church bylaws about safeguarding and reporting misconduct. A long-awaited overhaul of Title IV, the bylaws’ protocol for church discipline, is still reportedly in the works.
Natasha:
What are the new updates?
Warren:
They are minimum requirements that the dioceses must adopt by the end of 2025 in their misconduct protocols. They include the appointment of report receivers, the creation of a reports investigation committee, requirements that pastoral care be provided to the reporting party and clergy accused of misconduct and guidelines for dealing with reports of lay misconduct.
The canonical changes will go into effect in September.
Natasha:
Our next story is somewhat bizarre.
Warren:
In late July, the congregation of Calvary Chapel Cary in Apex, North Carolina, was shocked to discover its own church listed for sale online for $11.5 million with a pending buyer. Then, as mysteriously as it appeared, the listing was canceled.
Less than a week later, fresh from a five-month sabbatical, Pastor Rodney Finch resigned as senior pastor. Concluding a tumultuous tenure marred by multiple scandals, a slew of staff resignations, a shrinking congregation, and an investigation by the leadership council of the Calvary Chapel Association.
Natasha:
Tell us more about the church sale.
Warren:
Finch confessed to the church that he had secretly conspired with the board of elders as far back as January to find a buyer for the church building and nearby parking lot, keeping it secret until a deal was brokered. But before he could break the news the way he wanted to, the congregation found out.
The reason for the sale, he said, was that he had planned to resign in 2025 and did not think the church could survive financially without him unless it moved to a cheaper location. He also suggested he had already decided during his sabbatical to resign early—not because of the scandal but in order for the other pastors to “set their plan in motion” and “begin to congeal as a group.”
Natasha:
How’d the congregation feel about all this?
Warren:
Though the church intends to continue with the plan to sell and move, Finch confessed during his resignation speech that he was wrong to keep it secret. And though the board was complicit in the secrecy, no one else offered resignations.
Natasha:
How did the church get to this point?
Warren:
Finch’s ability to remain in the pulpit for about 30 years despite many complaints against him is, in part, due to the structure of the Calvary Chapel Association and its “Moses model” of leadership, which grants senior pastors enormous power and autonomy over their churches.
Some argue that unless that power is curbed, misbehaving pastors will continue to be unaccountable.
Natasha:
In our next story, a pastor could receive the death penalty.
Warren:
Jonathan Elwing, 43, a pastor from Palmetto, Florida, is facing a minimum sentence of life without parole over harrowing child rape allegations. However, due to an updated Florida death penalty law, he could receive capital punishment if convicted.
According to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office, police initially charged the father of four with four counts of possessing child pornography for using cryptocurrency to buy explicit images of children from the dark web. Detectives began investigating Elwing after a crypto-currency company tipped them about the purchases.
Nearly a month later, police found enough material to charge Elwing with over 20 counts of possession of child pornography.
Natasha:
What church was Elwing a part of?
Warren:
For five years, Elwing has been the senior pastor at Palm View First Baptist Church in Palmetto, Florida. Elwing resigned from Palm View shortly before his arrest.
Palm View FBC is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), which has struggled to properly resolve issues that have arisen from a scathing 2019 report accusing the convention of mishandling sexual assault cases.
Elwing has reportedly opposed SBC reforms against sexual abuse, including the recommendation by the SBC’s Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force (ARITF) to pay Guidepost Solutions to maintain a website of people credibly accused of sexual abuse in the SBC.
Natasha:
What’s next in this case?
Warren:
A grand jury indicted Elwing on July 10 for sexual battery of a child. He faces a minimum sentence of life without parole if convicted, but prosecutors could also press for the death penalty under a 2023 Florida law that allows for the ultimate sentence for sexual battery of a child under the age of 12. Juries in Florida need just eight of the 12 to agree to execution.
Elwing remains in custody at the Manatee County Jail. The investigation is ongoing.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren:
Charis Bible College, part of Andrew Wommack Ministries, will begin transitioning to new leaders.
Andrew Wommack,75, founded the college 30 years ago, and is now planning for his successors, Mike and Carrie Pickett, to take the leadership reins.
The Picketts are both currently executive vice presidents at the Charis Bible College main campus in Woodland Park, Colorado.
Although Wommack is not stepping down nor retiring, the transition of leadership to the Picketts will be accelerated.
Carrie Pickett graduated from Charis Bible College in 1999. She and Mike Pickett served as full-time missionaries in Russia for 16 years.
Charis Bible College offers an unaccredited three-year program. In year three, they develop skills in one of seven schools: Christian ministry, global training, worship, business, practical government, leadership, and film and production.
In the MinistryWatch database, Andrew Wommack Ministries has a D transparency grade and a low donor confidence score of 42. Furthermore, “this ministry has a negative net worth, making it impossible to assign it a valid financial efficiency rating.”
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
Christian broadcasting giant Salem Media Group released its second-quarter results this week with $60.6 million in revenue, down 7.7% year-over-year. However, its net income grew 132% to $2.3 million, reversing its $7 million loss during the same period last year.
Salem’s stock (OTC: SALM) dropped by about 11% on Tuesday afternoon after the earnings release. It’s currently trading at around $0.22 as of this writing.
Only one operating segment achieved gains in the second quarter. Digital media revenue—generated by Salem’s online content for Christian, political, investing, retirement, streaming, and other audiences—increased by 10% year-over-year to $11.9 million due to digital subscription revenue from the DayTradeSPY and Gilder financial newsletters.
Salem’s core broadcast business fell by 5.2% due to a nearly $2 million decline in local spot advertising, excluding political ads.
However, expenses in Salem’s digital media operations grew 2.2%, including advertising and promotions from email marketing campaigns.
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
Recently, Operation Underground Railroad (OUR)’s Donor Confidence Score fell to a 50, placing it in the “Give with Caution” category.
OUR, an anti-trafficking group, has seen significant upheaval over the last few years. In 2021, MinistryWatch began looking at the organization’s exaggerated rescue claims, and later at its increased donations and large net asset holdings.
In July 2023, its founder, Tim Ballard, quietly left the organization before being accused of sexual assault a few months later by 5 former OUR workers. In February 2024, Tammy Lee became the organization’s new CEO.
According to OUR’s 2023 Form 990, Ballard still received a salary of $601,379. From 2022 to 2023, the organization’s overall revenue jumped from $29.3 million to $50.4 million—but its 2023 expenses were more than $53 million. In addition, it has $56.3 million in net assets, ranking it 40 out of 40 for Resource Allocation in the Advocacy Sector.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Webinar – How To Read A Form 990.
Travel to Greenville, SC and Atlanta, GA.
AI Text to Audio experiment on podcast.
Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, and Brittany Smith.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

Aug 15, 2024 • 9min
Ep. 383: Appeals Court Rules Against Dave Ramsey’s Company
Former video editor claims he was fired for failing to follow Ramsey’s faith-based beliefs on
how to deal with COVID-19 pandemic.
By Bob Smietana for Religion News Service
A federal appeals court has ruled in favor of a former employee who claimed Ramsey Solutions,
the company run by Christian personal finance guru Dave Ramsey, discriminated against him
during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brad Amos, a former video editor at the Franklin, Tennessee-based company, sued Ramsey
Solutions in 2021, saying he was fired for not agreeing with Ramsey’s faith-based views about
how to respond to the pandemic.
During the pandemic, Dave Ramsey downplayed the risk of COVID-19, referred to those who
wear masks as “wusses,” barred employees from working at home and said his company would
be guided by faith not fear. Amos’ attorneys alleged that at the Lampo Group — which does
business as Ramsey Solutions — wearing a mask or social distancing was seen as “against the
will of God,” and employees were required to agree with Ramsey’s beliefs about the pandemic.
Attorneys for Amos also claimed that his faith, including Amos’ belief in the so-called Golden
Rule — doing unto others as you would have them do unto you — required him to mask, social
distance and comply with other CDC recommendations during the pandemic.
His insistence on doing so, Amos alleged, led to his firing.
“Amos says that his termination was based on his failure to submit to Lampo’s religious
practices and his expression of his own religious beliefs with regard to COVID measures. These
facts form the basis for Amos’s religious-discrimination claims,” according to a ruling from the
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth District.
Amos’ attorney also claimed that Ramsey Solutions had committed fraud by allegedly lying to
him about the “cult-like” atmosphere at the company.
In December, a U.S. District Court had dismissed both the discrimination and fraud claims
before they went to trial, saying Amos had failed to show he was discriminated against.
In the lower court ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Eli Richardson wrote that “it is not enough
that a plaintiff’s sincerely held religious beliefs do not align with the religious beliefs that
underlie the employment policy (requirement) that the plaintiff was terminated for non-
complying with. Instead, the plaintiff needs to have alleged a religious belief that conflicts with
an employment requirement,” Richardson wrote.
On Thursday (Aug. 8), the Sixth Circuit ruled that the district court had erred in dismissing
Amos’ discrimination claim. The court ruled that federal law protects employees from
discrimination based on “religious non-conformity” — also known as reverse discrimination, or
requiring an employee to follow a religious belief or practice.
The Sixth Circuit Court also ruled that a belief in the Golden Rule qualified as a religious claim
and was protected from discrimination.
During the appeal, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission filed a friend of the court
brief, urging the appeals court to reverse the lower court ruling — saying Amos had made a
plausible claim for religious discrimination.
The EEOC also argued that the term “reverse religious discrimination” was not accurate and said
the term “religious non-conformity” was more accurate in cases like the one involving Amos.
“As with all other types of religious-discrimination claims, the employer is accused of
discriminating against the employee on the basis of religion,” the EEOC wrote. “Here, however,
it is the employer’s religion that is the focus. But that doesn’t make the discrimination ‘reverse.’”
“We’re happy with the result and look forward to the opportunity to continue fighting for our
client,” Jonathan Street, an attorney for Amos, told RNS in a statement. The case will now return
to the lower district court for trial.
Ramsey Solutions did not respond to a request for comment.
The company’s lawyers, in a brief filed as part of the appeal, said the disagreement between the
company and Amos was about how to apply safety protocols. Religion, they argued, had nothing
to do with it.
“This lawsuit should never have been filed,” an attorney for Ramsey wrote. “At the heart of it is
an aggrieved employee who disagreed with his employer’s approach to the COVID-19
pandemic.”
Ramsey’s attorneys also argued that Amos had failed to make his religious discrimination claims
in a clear and timely manner and so those claims were invalid. “Because Plaintiff-Appellant
failed to plead reverse religious discrimination, it is not properly before the Court on appeal,”
Ramsey’s attorney argued.
Eugene Volokh, a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford and a long-time UCLA law
professor, was skeptical about the Sixth District ruling. Volokh, who often discusses First
Amendment cases at “The Volokh Conspiracy,” his long-running legal blog, said that Amos
would have to prove that religion was at the heart of his trouble with Ramsey.
An employer, Volokh said, could have secular reasons for disagreeing with vaccine mandates or
other COVID-related restrictions. If that is the case, then religious discrimination is not involved.
Nor would it matter if an employer’s skepticism was motivated by religion.
He also said that most religious discrimination cases are more straightforward — for example, if
someone is fired for their religious identity or if an employer fails to offer an accommodation to
a religious employee for their religious practice.
Determining if a secular firing decision — a disagreement over COVID rules — was motivated
by religion is more complicated, he said. He said that the court may suspect that agreement on
COVID was used as a kind of religious test to screen out the wrong kinds of Christians.
“You don’t go along with our views on COVID — well that means to us that you are not our
kind of Christians,” said Volokh, speculating on what could constitute religious discrimination in
a case like this. “And therefore, we are really going to fire you because of that.”
That kind of approach would be harder to show but could constitute discrimination.
Ramsey Solutions has faced a series of lawsuits and controversies in recent years, including an
ongoing lawsuit filed by an unmarried employee who was fired after telling her boss she was
pregnant. In that case, Ramsey argued the employee was fired for breaking a rule that barred
unmarried employees from having sex — rather than for being pregnant.
The company is also dealing with a class-action lawsuit prompted by its ties to a troubled time-
share exit company.
Ramsey did get some legal good news this week. The appeals court upheld a lower court’s ruling
dismissing Amos’ fraud claims. Amos had claimed leaders of Ramsey Solutions promised a
“drama-free” work environment and had dismissed concerns that Ramsey Solutions had a “cult-
like” work culture and was run more like a church than a company. Amos alleged he had moved
from California to Tennessee based on those assurances, which he later claimed were untrue.
The district court ruled that Amos knew there had been complaints about Ramsey Solutions but
did not do enough to vet those complaints. Instead, he had relied solely on assurances from
leaders at Ramsey Solutions.
“Amos even avers that he was put on notice that Lampo’s statements about the company were
potentially inaccurate,” the appeals court ruled. “According to his complaint, Amos’s only real
attempt to investigate or guard against rumors about Lampo’s workplace culture was to ask
Lampo employees about it.”

Aug 14, 2024 • 14min
Ep. 382: Becoming a More Discerning Consumer of Media Learn four forms of media bias, and how to guard against them
Here at MinistryWatch, we constantly consume all kinds of media. We are constantly looking for stories, and we are constantly looking at how other media outlets handle the stories we cover. We ask: How can we add value to a story? Is this a story that fits our mission? Should we even cover this story at all?
Answering these questions is not always easy, but asking them and struggling with the answers have made me a better journalist and a better reader and viewer of other people’s work. In the process of asking these questions (and others, which I will highlight below), I have developed some thoughts about media bias that have been helpful to me and might be helpful to you, too. I have identified four forms of media bias – along with questions to help you avoid being seduced by them. On today’s episode, I will share them with you.
The producer of today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.

Aug 9, 2024 • 28min
Ep. 381: Clint Pressley, Pastors and Politics,and Vineyard Anaheim
On today’s program, after a slew of controversies, Southern Baptists chose a low-key leader. We take a closer look at new SBC President Clint Pressley. And, Pastors and politics—legally, what are churches and other Christian nonprofits allowed to do when it comes to this year’s presidential campaign?
We also highlight the results are in from our summer survey of top ministry executives. They tell us their biggest challenges—and hopes for the future.
But first, a former youth volunteer for Vineyard Church in Anaheim, California, has been sentenced to more than 120 years in prison.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Daniel Ritchie, Kim Roberts, Tiffany Stanley, Yonat Shimron, Anna Piela, and Brittany Smith.
A special thanks to the National Association of Evangelicals for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, after a slew of controversies, Southern Baptists chose a low-key leader. We take a closer look at new S-B-C President Clint Pressley.
And, Pastors and politics—legally, what are churches and other Christian nonprofits allowed to do when it comes to this year’s presidential campaign?
And, the results are in from our summer survey of top ministry executives. They tell us their biggest challenges—and hopes for the future.
Natasha
But first, a former youth volunteer for Vineyard Church in Anaheim, California, has been sentenced to more than 120 years in prison.
Warren:
Todd Christian Hartman, 41, has been sentenced to 125 years to life for collecting and creating child pornography materials and molesting four girls between the years 2009 and 2014.
In 2015, investigators found hundreds of child pornography images and videos in Hartman’s Newport Beach home. Federal agents arrested Hartman on child pornography charges, but the case collapsed after a judge ruled he was not informed of his Miranda rights at the time of his arrest.
Natasha:
What happened next?
Warren:
In 2016, Hartman contacted the father of two of his victims and admitted to repeatedly molesting one of them after meeting through his volunteer work at the Anaheim Vineyard Church children’s ministry, starting when the girl was 6 years old.
Hartman was also convicted of molesting the girl’s younger sister and molesting a 14-year-old girl and 12-year-old girl at a sleepover in 2009.
Natasha:
How did the church respond?
Warren:
MinistryWatch contacted the Dwelling Place to inquire about Vineyard’s handling of the employee’s concerns, including whether or not church leadership was informed. We have not yet heard back at the time of publication.
Natasha:
Let’s move to our next story
Warren:
A Colorado man has been sentenced to at least eight years in prison for sexually abusing a child, with the possibility of life behind bars.
Michael Paustian, age 53, pleaded guilty to sexual assault of a child from a position of trust for a victim under the age of 15. He also pleaded guilty to sexual exploitation of a child. Both are class 3 felonies.
Natasha:
Was he connected to a ministry?
Warren:
Paustian was employed by Group Publishing as the company’s creative director. Group Publishing is widely known for publishing curriculum used by churches.
He’d began working at Group Publishing in 2005, and informed “company leaders in 2023 that he was being accused of incidents that allegedly happened in his home 18 years ago, not related to his work at Group.”
When Group Publishing leaders learned of “Paustian’s guilty plea, his employment was terminated.”
Natasha:
Our next story also includes a prison sentence.
Warren:
A woman from Texas—the mistress of Christian radio host William Neil Gallagher— has been sentenced to life in prison for her role in a Ponzi scheme.
Debra Mae Carter, 65, was found guilty of money laundering on July 8. Gallagher, the alleged mastermind behind the Ponzi scheme, received three life sentences, plus another 30-year sentence for scamming his radio listeners out of millions of dollars. Gallagher must serve all of those sentences concurrently.
Natasha:
How did the two work together on the scheme?
Warren:
The Tarrant County Criminal District Attorney’s Office told USA Today that Gallagher’s role was to “bring in the money” while Carter was tasked with making sure the victim’s couldn’t recover any of it. Prosecutors said Carter was able to launder much of the money through fake charities, land, and rental property. It is estimated that at least 170 people were victims in the Ponzi scheme. The majority were retirees.
Natasha:
Next, news of Benny Hinn
Warren:
Benny and Suzanne Hinn have now filed for divorce for the second time since 2010.
The couple has apparently been living in separate homes in Florida, some 70 miles apart from one another.
It is unclear why Suzanne filed for divorce or how long that the couple have lived in separate homes.
Natasha:
You said this is the second time they’ve filed for divorce?
Warren:
In February 2010, Suzanne served Benny with divorce papers leaving the televangelist “shocked and saddened.” Suzanne cited irreconcilable differences as to the reason for their divorce in 2010, according to the Christian Post.
Suzanne and Benny reconciled in 2012 and opted to remarry in 2013 at The Holy Land Experience in Orlando, Florida in front of 1,000 guests. The wedding was officiated by the late Jack Hayford.
This divorce was filed in Florida, a state allowing no-fault divorce, so the couple will likely see an equitable distribution of their assets.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, Southern Baptists voted in a low-key leader in June to cool things down. We’ll take a look at S-B-C president Clint Pressley.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break. New S-B-C President Clint Pressley does not have a national following or a big social media presence. His goal is to tone down the acrimony.
Warren:
Southern Baptists, the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, has a faced a series of challenges in recent years: declining membership, a sexual abuse crisis, a crackdown on women pastors, an embrace of Trump and MAGA politics. Yet at its last meeting in June its members elected a traditional preacher who wears three-piece suits, a tie and monogrammed cuffs and mostly stays out of the limelight.
Pressley, 55, the newly elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention, is a hard-working pastor of North Carolina’s fifth-largest Baptist church.
Natasha:
He is not trying to use the presidency, which he may serve for a maximum of two consecutive one-year terms, as a platform for influence.
Warren:
Pressley said of his new roll,“ my hope is to clear some of the fog of negativity and get us back on those two things we have: our confession and our mission,”
Al Mohler, the president of Southern Seminary and a prominent conservative voice in the SBC. Said of Pressley, “He’s an incredibly encouraging person and incredibly authentic. The public Clint Pressley and the private Clint Pressley are exactly the same man.”
Our story goes into a lot more detail about Pressley, if you’d like to know more, you can find the full story on the ministrywatch website.
Natasha:
As we’re all keenly aware, we’re in an election year – so our next story asks how should pastors navigate political conversations from the pulpit?
Warren:
The vast majority of evangelical leaders (98 percent) say that pastors should not endorse politicians from the pulpit, according to the May/June 2024 Evangelical Leaders Survey.
Walter Kim, president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) said, “The pulpit should be used in a prophetic manner, bringing the gospel to bear on today’s complex cultural issues, “Church leaders should inform, uplift and draw people into deeper discipleship that impacts how they engage in their communities, including how they vote. Endorsing a political candidate is rarely helpful and most often breeds division.”
Natasha:
And others leaders have raised concerns as well,
Warren:
Kimberly Reisman, executive director of World Methodist Evangelism, said, “Endorsing from the pulpit further polarizes our current culture. God can use leaders from all parties, and to equate God’s will with the will of any political party or person is exceedingly dangerous and a threat to the overall witness of Christians in the United States.”
Richard Stearns, president emeritus of World Vision U.S., added, “Politicizing the Church is divisive within the Body of Christ, harmful to the public witness of the Church and a distraction from the priorities of the kingdom —
Natasha:
Based on a 1954 law known as the Johnson Amendment, the IRS bans all 501(c)(3) nonprofits — including churches — from active involvement in political campaigns.
Warren:
However, the Johnson Amendment does not restrict pastors from offering biblical guidance on contemporary issues, and many evangelical leaders say pastors have a clear responsibility to do so.
Natasha:
So what is allowed when it comes to Churches and politics? That’s what our next story tackels.
Warren:
According to Pew Research, most Christians lean toward the Republican party, but both sides try to engage this large voting group.Candidates visit churches and speak to religious groups along their campaign trail in the hopes of winning voters to their side.
Before withdrawing from the 2024 presidential race, President Joe Biden addressed the congregation at Mt. Airy Church of God in Philadelphia.
Former President Donald Trump has spoken to many faith-based groups, including the Faith and Freedom Coalition.
Natasha:
Aside from the candidates themselves, groups have formed that work to rally Christians to vote a specific way.
Warren:
On the right, Turning Point USA Faith “is dedicated to empowering Christians to put their faith into action.” It is hosting Clear Truth conferences at several churches over the next few months to share “cultural convictions in alignment with orthodox doctrine and historical Christianity.”
On the left, Black Church Political Action Committee is working “to engage 1,000,000 voters in swing states to participate in voter registration, voter education, and voter mobilization for the 2024 Election Cycle. By empowering faith leaders, community leaders, and connected family members and friends.”
Natasha:
All of this begs the question: what political activities can churches and other religious nonprofit groups engage in legally?
Warren:
According to the Internal Revenue Service, “Section 501(c)(3) organizations are precluded from, and suffer loss of exemption for, engaging in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office.”
Examples of political activities that don’t violate the IRS regulations include holding non-partisan candidate forums, voter registration, and get-out-to-vote drives.
But voter education activities favoring one candidate would be a violation.
Natasha:
Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), a public interest law firm that often defends churches and charities on free speech grounds, has also published an election guide for pastors and churches.
Warren:
It notes that pastors can speak about political issues, but should not support or oppose candidates while acting in their official capacity as a church leader. They can, however, support or oppose a political candidate when speaking in a personal capacity.
It also warns churches they should not allow their facilities to be “used in partisan ways which could be perceived as supporting a particular candidate for elective public office.”
When it comes to inviting a candidate to speak at a church meeting or service, ADF advises that churches consider how it will maintain an equal opportunity for all political candidates.
Natasha:
Our next story, shares a necessary and helpful response of pro-life ministry post-Roe
Warren:
There has been a nationwide expansion of maternity homes in the two years since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.
“It’s been a significant increase,” said Valerie Harkins, director of the Maternity Housing Coalition, a nonprofit pro-life network of 195 maternity homes that has grown 23% since the court’s ruling.
Natasha:
There are now more than 450 maternity homes in the U.S., many of them are faith-based.
Warren:
As abortion restrictions increase, pro-life advocates want to open more of these transitional housing facilities, which often have long waitlists. It’s part of what they see as the next step in preventing abortions and providing long-term support for low-income pregnant women and mothers.
The reasons for the surge in interest in maternity homes are complex and go beyond narrowing abortion access. Harkins said unaffordable housing, paychecks cut by inflation and higher birthrates in some states have all contributed.
Natasha:
At a maternity home, Mothers receive housing and financial support during and after their pregnancies, sometimes for years after giving birth. And there are now maternity homes that specialize in keeping children out of the foster care system. While others have honed their expertise in addiction recovery.
Warren:
Across the country, maternity homes are sprouting up or expanding. In Nebraska, an old college campus is becoming maternity housing. In Arizona, a home has added to one property and opened another. In Georgia, lawmakers recently made it easier to open new maternity homes with fewer state regulations.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren:
As part of its work serving donors and ministries, MinistryWatch conducts a quarterly survey of leaders of the largest 1,000 Christian ministries in the country. We began the survey in October 2022, and thanks to your help, we have gathered eight surveys of results and reported about the insights they have provided.
In July, we received responses from 89 ministry executives, 92% of whom are in the top role at the organization — CEO, president, or executive director. While we recognize the response size is somewhat limiting, we believe the trends we have seen are still noteworthy.
Natasha:
And what are some of those tends?
Warren:
In this quarter’s survey, fundraising again took the top spot as the most significant challenge by seven points — 43% of leaders cited fundraising and 36% cited staffing.
Given that 43% of respondents cited fundraising and revenue as their top concern, one might expect they’ve been facing fundraising challenges.
And yet, over 30% of the ministry leaders answered that their ministry has experienced revenue growth of over 10% in the last 12 months. Only 18% said they’d seen that sizable growth in the April survey.
Natasha:
We also asked about non disclosure agreements, or NDAs.
Warren:
We began asking about the use of NDAs in April 2023. In that survey, 47% of ministries answered that they use NDAs, 49% said they didn’t use them, and 4% said they didn’t know.
In the most recent survey, 39% of respondents said they use NDAs, 54% said they don’t use them, and 7% said they didn’t know.
We then asked leaders to elaborate about the purposes for using NDAs. Over 70% responded that they are used for protection of proprietary information.
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
Today, Christian publishing is an $820 million industry that is in serious flux as the American religious landscape — and the publishing industry writ large — experience massive disruptions. The trajectory of U.S. Christian publishing is complex and defined not only by interconnected trends in religiosity and culture, but by the economy, technology, fads and, of course, book readership (46% of Americans read no books in 2023 — double the 2022 figure).
Natasha:
What do these trends mean for smaller, denominational presses, and what challenges do they anticipate in the coming years?
Warren:
Shrinking churches means the market for Christian print resources diminishes, too.
Jeff Crosby, CEO of the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association, said in an interview that more than 50% of the publishing and sales of Christian books happens “under a single corporate entity.”
Natasha:
I assume he means Amazon.
Warren:
That’s right. This poses an obvious risk to the viability of the industry, as one distribution channel deeply impacts the finances of the industry.
But there’s more. The decline of Christian brick-and-mortar bookstores means it is harder to sell religious books, as secular chain bookstores give them a much smaller “footprint” on the floor.
Global affairs also affect book sales, he pointed out, citing “staggering” cost increases for publishers who manufacture in China or India.
Brian Flagler and Craig Gipson from Flagler Law Group, a legal firm that advises Christian publishers and other Christian entities on contracts and copyrights, also listed distribution and supply chain problems as major challenges for Christian publishing. They also noted the rise of artificial intelligence. At the 2024 annual meeting of ECPA in St. Louis, AI was one of the main themes.
There’s a whole lot more to this story that we can’t get into here, so, if you’re interested, make sure to read the full article at MinistryWatch.com
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
This month, Hope Media Group’s overall MinistryWatch rating fell from 2 stars to 1 star.
Headquartered in Houston, Texas, Hope Media Group owns radio station KSBJ, as well as the national network of WayFM stations, and the Spanish-language Christian network “Vida Unida.” The organization also hosts concerts through its Hope Events arm and created the God Listens Prayer App.
The media group, which has a 1-star fund acquisition rating, ranks 27 out of 28 in Ministry Watch’s Radio/TV Stations Sector. Its fundraising costs jumped from 6% to 20% between 2022 and 2023. The sector median cost is 5%.
Hope Media Group also ranks 26 out of 28 in overall efficiency for the Radio/TV Stations Sector. In 2023, the organization’s total expenses were $37.9 million and its revenue was $33.4 million.
Warren: ad-lib.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Shepherds for Sale — Dispatch
Webinar – How To Read A Form 990.
Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Daniel Ritchie, Kim Roberts, Tiffany Stanley, Yonat Shimron, Anna Piela, and Brittany Smith.
A special thanks to the National Association of Evangelicals for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

Aug 7, 2024 • 12min
Ep. 380: A Review of “Shepherds For Sale” Thoughts on the new bestseller
On today’s MinistryWatch EXTRA episode, Warren Smith shares a review he wrote for “The Dispatch” of Megan Basham’s new book Shepherds For Sale: How Evangelical Leaders Traded The Truth for a Leftist Agenda. The fundamental flaw of the book is that it fails to note that the real problem in evangelicalism is that pastors have succumbed to the populist right in far greater numbers than they have to the progressive left, and the consequences for the Gospel and the purity of the church have been far more consequential.
Warren unpacks these ideas in this week’s EXTRA episode.
To read the complete article, in The Dispatch, click here.
The producer of today’s episode is Jeff McIntosh.
Until next time, may God bless you.

Aug 2, 2024 • 29min
Ep. 379: Liberty University, Steven Furtick, Robert Morris, and More
On today’s program, Liberty University reaches a settlement with former president Jerry Falwell Jr. after years of back-and-forth lawsuits between the two parties. Now, they say they are putting the past behind them. We’ll have details.
A small university in North Carolina is beating the odds…while other Christian colleges face closure, this school is thriving. We take a look at what they’re doing.
Also, Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church released its annual report—the Charlotte-area church saw revenue of more than $108-million in 2023.
The leadership at Gateway Church continues its shakeup following revelations that its founding pastor Robert Morris abused a minor in the 1980s.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Kim Roberts, Shannon Cuthrell, Yonat Shimron, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
Until next time, may God bless you.
COMPLETE MANUSCRIPT BELOW:
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, Liberty University reaches a settlement with former president Jerry Falwell Jr. after years of back-and-forth lawsuits between the two parties. Now, they say they are putting the past behind them. We’ll have details.
And, a small university in North Carolina is beating the odds…while other Christian colleges face closure, this school is thriving. We take a look at what they’re doing.
Also, Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church released its annual report—the Charlotte-area church saw revenue of more than $108-million in 2023.
Natasha:
But first, the leadership at Gateway Church continues its shakeup following revelations that its founding pastor Robert Morris abused a minor in the 1980s.
Warren:
Seven weeks after Robert Morris resigned from Gateway Church after Cindy Clemishire publicly claimed he abused her when she was 12 years old, Gateway has announced that Morris’ son, James Morris, is stepping away from the church.
James Morris was slated to take over church leadership after his father’s impending retirement in 2025. But after Clemishire’s claims went public, Robert Morris admitted “moral failure” with a “young lady” before resigning as the Texas megachurch’s lead pastor. Weeks later, James Morris and three other elders announced they would temporarily step down to allow room for a third-party investigation.
But last week, in a special announcement to the congregation, Gateway elder Tra Willbanks announced that James Morris and his wife, Bridgette Morris, had decided to permanently relinquish their positions at Gateway.
Natasha:
How did the congregation take that?
Warren:
Church attendees gave them a standing ovation. Then Willbanks said Gateway elders support James and Bridgette Morris’ desire to establish a church in the future.
I should mention that James and Bridgette Morris are not the only ones to have left in the fallout of Robert Morris’ resignation. According to the leadership pages on its website, Gateway has made additional changes to its staff and elder board. It removed former-felon-turned-Prison Ministry Campus Pastor Stephen Wilson after Wilson’s past sex charges from 2002 involving a minor became public.
Natasha:
Who is going to minister as the church moves forward?
Warren:
Willbanks informed congregants that Max Lucado, a popular author and teaching minister at Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, and Swedish pastor Joakim Lundqvist, will be filling leadership roles at the church. Lucado will become the interim teaching pastor, preaching at Gateway about twice a month. Lundqvist will share preaching duties with Lucado and take on a pastoral role with staff.
Natasha:
Next, a Texas Pastor has stepped down due to “inappropriate” conduct, without being specific about the concerns.
Warren:
On Sunday, July 28, Cross Timbers Church in Argyle, about 30 miles north of Fort Worth, announced that its lead pastor Josiah Anthony would resign due to “inappropriate and hurtful” actions, WFAA reported.
The church clarified on Monday that the conduct “does not include any children, physical or sexual interactions or any illegal activity to our knowledge.”
Apparently, the church elders asked Anthony to resign and he agreed.
Natasha:
Is there any hint as to why he resigned?
Warren:
During the service, Cross Timbers elder John Chalk read a statement about Anthony’s resignation.
“Josiah has been in a prolonged and sustained season of struggle with his emotional and mental health which has been very painful for him and those around him,Throughout this struggle, some of Josiah’s decisions and actions were inappropriate and hurtful to current and former members of the [Cross Timbers] family and staff.”
Natasha:
Who will fill Anthony’s roll as pastor?
Warren:
Byron Copeland will serve as interim lead pastor. Before taking a position of executive pastor at Cross Timbers, Copeland worked at nearby Gateway Church.
Natasha:
There have been quite a few situations like this lately, one of course being the Morris story we just discussed what are some others?
Warren:
On July 7, Stonebriar Community Church, founded by Chuck Swindoll, dismissed former Associate Pastor Tony Cammarota, who “confessed to church leadership of a moral failure” according to an email obtained by the Dallas Morning News. Stonebriar did not provide details of the moral failure.
In June, well-known Dallas megachurch pastor Tony Evans stepped away from leading Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship due to “sin” he committed years ago. Evans, 74, was not specific about his actions but said they were not criminal. He will be “submitting to a healing and restoration process established by the elders.”
Natasha:
Next, the latest between Liberty University and Jerry Falwell Jr.
Warren:
Liberty University and its former president Jerry Falwell Jr. have reached an agreement to settle all outstanding disputes and lawsuits between the two parties.
While specifics of the agreement were not released, the statement said the two reached a mutual understanding about the retirement and severance Liberty will pay to Falwell.
In March 2023, Falwell sued the university for $8.5 million in retirement benefits he claimed they owed him.
The agreement also authorizes Liberty to use the name, image, and likeness of its founder, Jerry Falwell Sr.
Natasha:
There’s been a lot going on between the two- can you remind us of some of the recent history here.
Warren:
Last July, Falwell Jr. sued the university, accusing it of misappropriating “for itself” the name and image of Falwell Sr., the conservative Christian evangelist who co-founded the evangelical university in 1971.
In September, Falwell Jr. amended his complaint against Liberty, claiming the university’s board overlooked sexual misconduct by former leaders, including an unnamed former president, only to turn on Falwell Jr. when his life fell apart.
Following allegations that he and his wife had a years-long sexual relationship with a business associate, Falwell Jr. resigned from his post as Liberty’s president in August 2020.
Neither Falwell nor the university plan to answer any further questions about the settlement.
In the MinistryWatch database, Liberty University has a 2-star financial efficiency rating, a C transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of only 34, meaning donors should withhold giving.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, the rise of Carolina University—how a 79-year-old institution rebooted itself.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break, while many Christian colleges are failing, one small school in North Carolina appears to be beating the odds.
Warren:
A 79-year-old private institution in North Carolina appears to be an anomaly to the many Christian colleges forced to close recently. Carolina University’s enrollment has surged 29% this year, rising from 826 to 1,068 students. Its multilingual offerings and global recruitment have attracted scores of international students, who now make up about half of the student body. The university is also seeing success with its new career-oriented programs, including master’s degrees in data science and innovation, along with undergrad courses covering machine learning, artificial intelligence, esports and cybersecurity.
Natasha:
How’d they get to this place?
Warren:
Our full story goes into detail about their financial turn around but beyond that they’ve also had years of steady enrollment growth With long history of mergers. Since its founding in 1945, the school has absorbed seven colleges headed by Methodists, Moravians, Baptists, Anglicans, and Mennonites. Each merger brought a surge in students, faculty/staff, flagship programs, and financial resources, enabling Carolina University to sell campuses for far more than the obligations owed.
Natasha:
The school also focuses on what they call “Jobs of the Future”
Warren:
Years ago, the school made the call to only offer new degrees leading to a stable job market and high-paying salaries. Focusing on degrees that lead to jobs starting at $100,000 a year.
The school is already seeing success with this strategy, with data science rising the ranks as its fastest-growing program. Other longstanding programs, such as engineering and business, also maintain strong enrollment.
Carolina University’s legacy theology programs aren’t slowing down either. President Petitt said, “We’re training more pastors right now than we have at any other time in our history, even when we were a Bible college.”
Natasha:
That’s amazing! What are their goals for the future?
Warren:
They hope to expand enrollment to 1,500 over the next academic year. Their long-term target is 7,000 main-campus students and 70,000 online.
Natasha:
Next, a Historic Miami Church saved From Foreclosure
Warren:
Nearly a year ago, MinistryWatch reported that one of Miami’s oldest black churches had just weeks to repay a $1.6-million mortgage that its former pastor had taken out in the church’s name.
St. John Institutional Missionary Baptist Church in Miami’s Overtown neighborhood, has roots dating back to 1906. But last year, the church announced that parts of the historic church could “close forever” unless they were to raise enough money to pay off a mountain of debt incurred under its former pastor.
Natasha:
So what changed things?
Warren:
Three days before the church’s historic property was to be sold in foreclosure, the Southeast Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment Agency (SEOPW CRA) purchased it, allowing the loan to be paid off and granting repurchase rights to the church.
The CRA secured the auxiliary buildings, parking area, and fellowship hall roughly 72 hours before the property’s scheduled auction. The agreement allowed the church to lease those buildings for $1 each year.
St. John’s Baptist Church, according to the city’s historic preservation website, is one of the only Art Deco-style religious buildings in Miami-Dade County and a rare example of the style in Overtown, the heart of Miami’s historic African-American community.
Natasha:
Our next story comes from my home state of Colorado.
Warren:
The Rock church in Castle Rock, Colo., succeeded in obtaining a preliminary injunction that will allow it to operate an “on-site temporary shelter ministry” consistent with its religious beliefs.
On July 19, U.S. District Judge Daniel Domenico issued the preliminary injunction in favor of the church after the city charged the church with zoning violations because the temporary shelters were not an allowed use.
According to court documents, two shelters, a trailer, and an RV are parked over 400 feet from the neighboring residential areas and have been used as temporary shelters since 2018.
Natasha:
How did the decision come down?
Warren:
The court found The Rock was entitled to an injunction because of the protection afforded it under the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA), which prohibits a city from enforcing land use regulations in a way that impose a “substantial burden” on the religious exercise of a church.
During the time that The Rock has been prohibited from using its temporary shelters, it has had to turn away homeless families in need. On the contrary, “The [t]own has not argued at this time that it would suffer any actual, material harm by allowing families to stay in the [c]hurch’s two mobile homes,” the order reads.
The church noted—and the city did not dispute—that it “has never experienced any public-safety or other related issues while carrying out this ministry, even as it has temporarily housed numerous individuals and small families.”
Natasha:
Next, the latest for the Church of the Nazarenes
Warren:
A Church of the Nazarene court has found one of its most prominent theologians guilty of affirming and advocating for the approval and inclusion of members who openly identify as LGBTQ, contrary to the church’s teachings.
After delivering the verdict on Saturday evening (July 28) against the Rev. Thomas Jay Oord of Nampa, Idaho, the court stripped Oord of his preaching credentials and expelled him from membership in the 2.5-million-member global denomination.
Natasha:
Can you explain why Oord was expelled?
Warren:
In its decision, the church court cited a book Oord wrote with his daughter Alexa Oord, who identifies herself as bisexual, titled, “Why the Church of the Nazarene Should Be Fully LGBTQ+ Affirming,” in which they affirm gay sex, which the court found particularly egregious.
The court also objected to Oord’s behavior in defying church rules, including multiple requests that he either quit advocating for approval of LGBTQ lifestyles or give up his preaching credentials.
Oord now directs doctor of ministry students at Northwind Theological Seminary, an online-only school that is not affiliated with the Church of the Nazarene. He will be able to keep his job, but he will no longer be allowed to publish with the Nazarene-owned publishing house, the Foundry, or preach or hold membership in any of its churches.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren:
Elevation Church, the megachurch based in Charlotte, North Carolina, and led by Steven Furtick, took in over $100 million in tithes and offerings in 2023, according to its Annual Report.
In its financial breakdown for 2023, the church reported that the largest portion of the revenue —34% or $34 million—went to personnel expenses. Central operations and ministries was the second highest category for expenditures at 25%. Another $13 million went toward outreach efforts.
Elevation Church reported a weekly in-person attendance of 17,091, an increase of 21% from the previous year. According to its website, Elevation Church has 19 locations, as well as online streaming.
According to the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA), of which Elevation Church is a member, the church had assets totaling $319 million at the end of Fiscal Year 2023. Net assets increased by $41 million from the previous year.
Last July, Elevation Church separated from the Southern Baptist Convention. While it gave no specific reason for the departure, the letter sent to the denomination stated, “You will find that our Statement of Beliefs on our website is very much in line with the Baptist Faith and Message — we have no intention of changing those core beliefs.”
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
In June, the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) General Assembly voted to investigate the teachings of the best-selling book “Jesus Calling,” written by the late author Sarah Young.
Now, the pastor who originally sent the overture to the General Assembly is transferring his membership to another denomination, but The PCA maintains that the overture is still valid.
Teaching Elder Benjamin Inman was a pastor in the PCA for 24 years, but has now transferred his credentials to the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA).
Natasha:
What was the overture?
Warren:
The amended overture requested reports from Mission to the World and the Committee on Discipleship Ministries (CDM) concerning their relationship with the book and its author, the reasons it was removed from CDM inventory, and “assess[ing] the book’s appropriateness for Christians in general and PCA members and congregations in particular with special regard for its doctrine and method.”
In a statement provided to byFaith, Inman explained his reasoning behind the overture: “The ‘Jesus Calling’ overture was purely an act of repentance for my failure to pursue the issue in 2013. I learned in 2023 that the book had sold 42 million copies, and I was ashamed of my inaction. I’m encouraged that my delinquent and meager attempt has been taken up by the General Assembly.”
Before her death, Young was a member of the PCA and had a degree from the denominational seminary, Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis. She and her husband Steve were Mission to the World missionaries in Japan and Australia.
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
Childcare Worldwide’s Donor Confidence Score recently dropped from a 90 to an 85, still ranking it in the “Give with Confidence” designation. It also now has a 1-star efficiency rating.
The organization, founded in 1981, is based in Lynden, Wash. It is a sponsorship organization that supports children in Africa, Asia, and South America.
Their Life Centers are community centers that provide medical care, education, food and clean water, and school supplies.
The organization ranks 88th out of 92 for Fund Acquisition within the Relief and Development sector and has a 1-star rating. In 2020, 12% of Childcare Worldwide’s expenses were spent on fundraising, and in 2023 the amount jumped to 20%. The sector median is 6%.
Childcare Worldwide’s Resource Allocation ranking is also 1-star. In order to have a high score in the Resource Allocation Rating category, MinistryWatch requires organizations to have 80-85% of its funding go towards programming. Currently, Childcare Worldwide only spends about 70% of its expenses on programming.
In 2023, the organization’s total revenue was $3.3 million and its total expenses were $4 million. It also has $1.1 million in net assets.
Natasha:
And who did Christina highlight in her roundup of Ministries Making a Difference?
Warren:
A ‘Network Member’ in Thailand partnered with Atlas Free, an anti-trafficking nonprofit, to offer a free baking class in the red light district for women in the sex trade. Because of the class, 30 survivors were impacted, one of whom went on to open her own business. Atlas Free has 5 stars, an “A” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 100 in the MinistryWatch database—the highest ratings in each category.
After learning their Colorado community had no support group for young mothers and their children, women from a local church started one of their own. Thanks to local grants and funds from a Blessing Our Community initiative, Cortez Church of the Nazarene provides childcare twice a month while inviting moms to enjoy snacks, coffee, door prizes, community and mentorship.
Davar Audio Bibles is recording a full audio Bible in Azeri, the official language of Azerbaijan. It will be the ministry’s first audio Bible for the Muslim-majority country of over 10 million, located along the border between West Asia and Eastern Europe. Davar Audio Bibles has 3 stars and an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 97.
Hand2Hand pairs churches in West Michigan with local schools to pray for students and pack and deliver food on weekends. This school year, it is partnering with 145 churches to serve 45 school districts. It also operates a store that sells wholesale food at reduced cost for community partners. The ministry estimates the store has saved partners more than $150,000 since it opened last fall. Hand2Hand has 3 stars and an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and a donor confidence score of 100.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Ad lib: California, Colorado, New Mexico
Shepherds for Sale — Dispatch
Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Jessica Eturralde, Kim Roberts, Shannon Cuthrell, Yonat Shimron, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.

Jul 31, 2024 • 24min
Ep. 378: Miles Smith Reads The Ex-Vangelicals
You may have heard the term ex-vangelical. An ex-vangelical is someone who formerly identified as an evangelical, but no longer does so. The phenomenon has created a sub-genre of books from memoirs – such as those by Josh Harris, Rachel Held Evans, and others — to more journalistic accounts, such as Sarah McCammon’s “The Ex-Vangelicals.”
But is there really a groundswell of people leaving evangelicalism? Are these books fair representations of evangelicalism? Is the rejection of the ex-vangelicals really a rejection of Christianity, or a rejection of a certain brand of evangelicalism defined more by culture and politics than theology?
These are questions Miles Smith set out to answer. He read many of the ex-vangelical books and wrote a helpful article about it called “Reading The Exvangelicals” for Mere Orthodoxy.
Miles Smith is a historian by training. He attended university at the College of Charleston in Charleston, South Carolina, and got a Ph.D. from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, Texas. He now teaches at Hillsdale College. But he has come on strong in recent years as a public intellectual. I have found his commentaries helpful and highly readable. In addition to Mere Orthodoxy, he has written for The Gospel Coalition, Public Discourse, The Federalist, and The University Bookman.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, editorial, and other support from Christina Darnell, Kim Roberts, Casey Suddeth, and Stephen Dubarry.
Please join me on Friday for our round up of the week’s news, with my co-host Natasha Cowden.
Until then, may God bless you.


