At Sea with Justin McRoberts

Welcome to the odd, like a spiral, like a downward spiral of information and conversation that has become this podcast because, in essence, I am the host, and I am hosting Dan Portnoy, who is playing host to me.  Let's start calling a media company, Meta. There are lots of triggers going off right now. Some of them are justified, but not all of them. Today, Dan and I walk through the book Sacred Strides, digging into the story and talking about the themes, giving you an opportunity if you liked book, which I think you did, if I'm honest. And give you an opportunity to dig a little bit deeper and hear more about it. And if you have not come across the book or giving it a shot, giving you all kinds of reasons to to do it. This is a chapter chapter five. That is entitled, Pacing Myself or Coffee, College, and knowing my limits. Dan, welcome back to the show. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

We are marching back through the book Sacred Strides, looking at different chapters, chapter by chapter. We're on Chapter Four, digging into elements of the book that will just kind of follow the arrows that the book provides. Because when I write, and I wrote this book, I never really intended for a book to be a whole thing. I intend for a book to point to other stuff and you are in the culture around you. So we're following those arrows and having the conversations around him. So welcome. Links For Justin:Coaching with JustinOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Another episode with producer, Dan Portnoy, marching through the book Sacred Strides. We're going to dive into Chapter 3 today - Staying In My Lane. This is a chapter about limitations - something we love to talk about.  Links For Justin:Coaching with JustinOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

We are doing a series in and by which we're digging back into and through the book Sacred Strides - chapter by chapter talking about the dominant themes in the book or extras on top of the book what you know what it looks like to apply some of the things that I get to in the book. Dan, who's been a friend for a long time and has produced this podcast from its beginning, has a really unique perspective on my work and on me as a worker. And so it's fun to talk about my stuff and have Dan poke around a little bit at, "Hey, what's behind this or underneath this? What's after this?" And so we've enjoyed doing this podcast series up to this point and we expect to continue to, and we think you are as well, judging by the numbers, the metrics. So this is chapter two of the book Sacred Strides, and will you please welcome Dan Portnoy to the microphone? Let's dig in.Links For Justin:Coaching with JustinOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Dan and I are doing a series of podcasts focused on my book. Reintroducing folks to the book Sacred Strides. We began last week with an overview of the book before it got into the introduction. And like why I wrote the book and some surrounding themes. This week, we will dive into Chapter One and talk about it. Dan is going to draw some stuff out. One of the things that's great about Dan and my partnership with Dan is that Dan has a unique perspective on the work I'm doing. Working more collaboratively with people is an enjoyable part of being an artist. So, welcome to this episode of The @Sea Podcast and interview with me, conducted by producer Dan Portnoy, centered on the book Sacred Strides. Here We Go. Summary The book "Sacred Strides" with Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy. 0:07 Balance and prioritization in life and work. 1:15 Work-life balance and prioritizing projects. 5:43 Work-life balance and self-care. 9:39 Creativity, passion projects, and work-life balance. 14:24 Creativity, identity, and disillusionment. 19:38 Balancing work and family life as a creative professional. 24:09 Vulnerability and parenting with a focus on emotional connection. 30:23 Observing the Sabbath in modern times. 33:32 Scheduling and organization strategies. 42:04 Creative coaching and planning. 45:09 Creativity, work ethic, and entrepreneurship. 48:42 Identity and relationship with God. 53:12 Belovedness and rest for a deeper understanding of oneself. 57:08Links For Justin:Coaching with JustinOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Welcome specifically to this new series. It's going to be a deeper dive into the book Sacred Strides, which I released earlier in the year. And I get to spend some time talking with my friend Dan Portnoy, who is also the producer of this show. So if you've been around the @Sea podcast for any amount of time you have benefited from and enjoy Dan Portnoy his work, I deeply value him as a friend and really value him also as a work partner. So what's gonna happen is instead of me just talking about the book, or trying to interview myself in some sort of like, like comedic Monty Python style, although that was, that was an that was an idea entertained. Dan's gonna ask me some questions beginning with this first episode, talking about some of the history leading up to the release of the book, why it was important and what I was hoping to do with it. Links For Justin:Coaching with JustinOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble  Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

Several years ago, six-ish, I think I don't really remember. Years ago, I started making myself available to artists, to ministers, to entrepreneurs, folks who had worked in fields that I had worked in, and I started doing so for free. And I wasn't calling it coaching. At the time, I was just making actual meetings to answer questions, and they were questions that had been coming up. And if you've been in an industry for long enough, this happens to you, as folks start asking you, Hey, how did you get there? Or what did you do about this? Or hate if x happens? Do you have a solution for scenario questions begging for some sort of wisdom from someone who's further down the line? So it's a little bit natural. And it was at the time, it felt like a very natural outpouring of me being in music and art and in religious practice. for a really long time, folks started asking questions. I started making it a serious thing by setting meetings, now called coaching. At the same time, a number of those same folks were asking a lot of questions about religious practice. And it wasn't just a matter of, "How do I build a church?" It was a matter of these things I used to do in my life that had me feeling connected to myself, to God, and to the people around me. These religious practices don't work the way they used to, or I don't feel as connected to those kinds of things, spiritual dilemmas, not always even dilemmas or crises, just hangups, and stalls the same way that folks who get stalled or hung up in art practices, folks are getting stalled and hung up in religious practices. And again, all that makes just some basic sense. If you've been around long enough, you end up having these conversations. Nowadays, as I look back over the course of the last, maybe a decade or so, there's a bit of a trend, I'm noticing, and I think it's associated with or at least it is pointed to by the rise of coaches and spiritual directors. So, I function as a coach. And as a spiritual director. It's actually most of what I do with my time now is that I'm hired to provide coaching and spiritual direction. And I don't think it's just because I've been around and I have something to bring to the table. I think there's something happening. Culturally, institutionally, societally, maybe there's some sort of spiritual movement. I don't like to dig into those terms all that often. But there's something more going on than just that. I have been around long enough, and I'm taking on more and more of these clients. I think there's something in the water. I think there's something in the culture. In fact, I think it's the very same thing that propelled me and the small team of folks that I work with to launch this podcast; it is the desire to navigate wisely and well. Waters we just aren't sure of and don't feel confident in. Now, some of those waters are institutional and cultural, some of those waters are very personal, they're interpersonal, they're actually deeply, individually personal. And as I read the lay of the land, in all of those spaces, there is an increasing number of people, or so it seems, who simply don't feel equipped, in and of themselves, much less in relationship to the institutional, cultural spaces, they're used to trusting, they don't feel equipped or prepared to navigate. What comes next. The mistrust of the tools we were using internally, institutionally, and culturally? Well, I think you are as familiar as I am with that mistrust, as it was projected in all kinds of critical criticisms and critiques, and most of them, or at least a lot of them were, were spot on and really helpful, that there was a critique of, of institutional religion, a critique of higher education, there was a critique of even mental health practices, there was a critique of interpersonal and individual religious practice, there was a critique of the economy, there's a critique of politics, everything it seemed, was on the table for critique everything it seemed, was being questioned, is this viable? Does this do what we want and need it to do for us? Now, one of my favorite pieces of cultural criticism and cultural wisdom comes from Andy Crouch, who says, and I love this, that the only cure for bad culture or for lesser culture is to make a better culture. And I think that's where the real fear comes in about tomorrow. Is it because what if the question isn't a matter of what comes next? And that we sit and wait for something to be revealed? What if the moment is something different and that in this moment, as we've grown disillusioned with the way our institutions and practices interpersonally, culturally, and otherwise have worked? What if the question isn't? Let's wait until the next thing shows up. What if the question actually is - What will we make for tomorrow? What will we make with what we have on hand? What will we make from what we've experienced with what we know? That we can trust? Tomorrow? That, I would suggest, is a far more terrifying question. Because it puts the onus on us. And if we've learned anything, collectively, we've learned that we just can't make it on our own. Especially, especially if it's not a matter of executing someone else's plans. If the next chapter in our shared history really is what I think it is, which is a time and a season in which we get to invent and reinvent and try and explore and experiment and relearn if it really is on us to build a future we can't see from here, then we have to know we can't do that on our own. And so I love that I get to offer myself as a spiritual director. And as a coach. For those who are maybe less initiated in these terms, spiritual direction, as I practice, is mostly about helping you as best I can hear or see, and no God in your own life, no agenda, no platform, and our goals outside of you, having a clearer and more competent sense of God. In you. Coaching tends to be a little bit more goal-oriented. Maybe there's a specific thing you want to achieve, or maybe something you want to quit and stop achieving. Or you've got a project you want to start or a specific way you want to be making or living differently. And if either one of those triggers something in you or stirs something in you, reach out, not just because you need it, but because maybe you do. But if you do, it won't just be so that you feel more settled into your own life. As you're living, it'll be because, and I don't think I'm overstating this when I said it'll be also because the future kind of hinges on it. And I'd love to help you build that.Coaching with Justin Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

 I used to think the phrase, everything in moderation sounded like wisdom. I mean, it was the piece of wisdom folks would dole out when we talked about work-life balance and we talked about alcohol. And we talked about video games, everything in moderation, everything in moderation seemed like the thing that one would say that the goal would be to find the correct balance between all of these things. And that meeting in the middle of all things is still his dominant value. I just got an email, actually, from a work friend with whom I'm putting together this project. And there are differing opinions about how to spend the time on this retreat. And one of the participants said, Well, we will meet in the middle where everyone is happy. It says the notion that somehow there's this middle space between all things, and if we can just find the middle space between all things. Everything in moderation, we'll all be happy. And I'm just kind of over it. I no longer think that everything in moderation sounds like wisdom. I think it sounds impossible. I think it sounds not quite impossible. I think it sounds unhealthy. Now, I note some of that because I get prickly and nervous around any rule that I want to apply to all of life. That here's this rule, and it works for everything. And the phrase, at least the way we apply it, everything in moderation tends to get applied to everything that this will work for everything. As I said, it's about alcohol, it's about, it's about relationships, it's about how we're going to spend time, on a retreat, we'll find the middle space. In the middle, everyone will be happy. I'll find a middle space between my work and my happiness, right? It's just too easy, the harder work of life. And I think the more fruitful work of life. And I think those two things tend to come together and have more to do with paying attention to my life as I'm living it. And in other words, there are things that I don't want to make any time for. It's not a matter of moderation. It's not a matter of how much the how much is none. I don't want that at all. But even that, as a life rule, doesn't really fly in the long run. What flies in the long run is actually the short run. In other words, I need to pay attention to my life as I'm living it, to have a pace of life, to have a community of people around me, to have life practices that allow me to take some steps. And the nowhere I am to look at my own energies, my own interests, my own desires, what's available to me inside of me. What are my heart's desires? What are my limitations? Am I tired, or am I not tired? Then, I look around at the opportunities and challenges around me and make decisions based on where I am and what's available to me internally and externally. Living life paying attention to the life I'm living is more challenging. It's a more regular, and I think, more fruitful practice than just saying everything in moderation. Now, you might be thinking what I'm thinking, which is that it sort of lends itself towards that Ecclesiastes chapter that gets quoted in song, that there is a time for everything. And a season for every activity under the heavens, a time to be born at a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill, a time to heal, a time to tear down, and a time to build a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance a time to scatter stones. And a time to gather them and on and on and on. There's a time in your life and in my life for going way overboard. For spending way too much time, too much in quotes. Applying yourself to a certain practice or spending 90 hours a week on that startup project. There's a time for that. There's also a time in life to pull your hands off the wheel, hit the brakes, and just pull over and do nothing for a season. It's not a matter of moderation. It's a matter of attention. What season Am I in? What's available to me right now if I'm 23 to 29 years old, and I've got ideas for him. It's time to go here if you've got energy, you got space, you got parents who are willing to catch you when you fall. It's time to just go nuts and try a whole bunch of stuff. If you're 48 years old, you have two kids in a mortgage. It's not time to just throw random experiments at the wall through a pane of the wall and see what works. Not all the time, not centrally. Our seasons change our lives. There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. The question isn't all things in moderation. And how do I achieve that? The question is, am I paying attention to my life? Do I have a pace of life in which I know what season I'm in and how to live it? So, if you are in that place, and you are trying to achieve balance, and you think still that all things in moderation are really the goal, but that's starting to degrade your soul because it feels impossible. It's why I wrote the book Sacred Strides. And if you haven't checked it out, I would highly suggest the book. And it's why I do what I do as a coach. So I'm here to help. If you haven't checked out the book, you can go to amazon.com you can go to hearts and minds books.com and order it. I think that the book Sacred Strides might provide some perspective and maybe even some permission for you to pay attention to the season on your end and find some pacing differently in your life so that you can pay attention to the season you're in. This is why I offer myself as a coach because it is difficult to pay attention to our lives as we're living them. It can take some help, and sometimes it can take a professional I am. That's why I do what I do. I can help you potentially pay attention to your season and make some wiser decisions based on what's available to you internally and externally. So check out the books, tickets, and rides, and jump to Justin mcroberts.com. Click on that coaching button and see if I can't help you figure out the season of life you're in Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

A few weeks ago, I was in the middle of a call with a client, an artist I'm coaching. When? Well, we talked about the project he was doing, which is a project, by the way, that he'd been dying to do for three or four years. We finally created the time we got some money involved. And he was able to put this project together. And what he said to me in the conversation, he said I know that it's good. I just wished that it was great. So we dove into that. But what's the difference between this being good and being great, and the more he talks, the more he self-identified with that tension. In fact, at some point, he said, I know that as an artist, I'm just good. But I wish I was great. Which then begs another series of questions. And it's led to this reflection, and we've talked three or four times since then. So we've talked about these things. And this reflection comes from those conversations, that in every facet of his career, he will look at what he was looking at, what was in front of him, and what he was able to bring to the table, and he could identify that it was good. And he wanted more, that the songs are good. He just wishes they were better, and he thinks he'll probably get this many streams. He wished that he would get more and that he would sell this many vinyls, but he wished that he could sell more. And in every facet of his professional life, he was happy that he had achieved what he achieved, that it was good. And he wished there was more. Now, I don't disparage that kind of thinking, and I think I want to be better. And to grow is fantastic. The problem I started to identify was with the word greatness. I think it was in that conversation, and oftentimes, it is a kind of distraction that instead of saying this is where I am, and I want to take steps from here forward. greatness in the conversation I was having with him was this image somewhere out there, always just beyond his reach, that he was striving towards. He wasn't working from what was true and good about him into a potentially joyful future. He was working away from what was true and good and established in him towards some other thing. Greatness oftentimes can be a terrible distraction from what is. And oftentimes, it's actually rooted in the same system of metrics that steals the joy of our actual processes. In other words, instead of saying, This feels good, this is good. I'm taking joy in this. And I want there to be more of what I have because it is good. Greatness inserts itself as this mist, as this idea, this disembodied image four steps beyond where I am, and says, it's not enough for you to be as you are. You shouldn't be happy, you shouldn't be satisfied, you shouldn't take true joy, it isn't actually good. And it won't be until you get here. The problem with that, if you've been in the cycle before, is that you can work and get to that point, that next step that used to be four steps away. And then once you're there, greatness, quote, unquote, greatness, this image, this misses out there somewhere, the idea will still reinsert itself and say, well, that's fine that you've come this far, but you shouldn't be happy. You shouldn't take joy. It's not good enough. You need to have more. Another way to talk about the way greatness steals joy is the way we enjoy our sports or our music, that you can say, hey, this is my favorite band. And then, as soon as we've talked about our favorite bands, we often move into this conversation about the greatest band in that genre, that it's not enough for this person to be good at what they do. They're not the greatest. And if they're not the greatest in this genre, then you like what they do is a kind of compromise. It's fine that you like this artist, but you really should like this artist. That's what's best: greatness as an idea steals the joy of what makes art, actually art. Greatness can steal the human joy of the process of creation. I think there's something magical to the way of the very beginning of the Hebrew Scriptures. When God creates a thing, God will say that it's good, and then at the end of this whole long process of creating, Shouldn't what God doesn't say is okay? Now we've done all this good, we've gotten to great what God says is instead, as the writer has said, this is very good, not great, very good, more of the goodness that was already. The way I read that is that the value of creation itself is rooted in God's pleasure and joy rather than in what creation can or will achieve. It's not about what comes next. It's about how much pleasure and joy God takes God took in the act of the process of creation. The conversations we oftentimes have centered on the word greatness, steal the human joy, of the act of becoming, and the work of making the steal the joy of art and humanity. In athletics. It's not enough, says greatness, to begin at six years old, and to achieve and to grow, and to get better and to get to college and to get that scholarship and then maybe even get drafted and play in the NBA and be a point guard in the NBA if you're not the greatest. Again, I'll go back to a few weeks ago when I talked about Stefan Curry. And this conversation that's now happening, and I even played into it when I did the podcast, and maybe I'm experiencing a bit of regret that watching Stefan Curry play basketball is a joyous, incredible thing to do. He's amazing what he's so good at what he does. And because he's as good as he is at what he does, his career gets entered into this media-driven conversation about who the greatest point guard in human history is. was that Isaiah Thomas, or was it Magic Johnson? Or is it Stefan Curry? And it's almost as if, if we can't solve that problem, we can't really rightly enjoy this person's career as he's going about it. And that's just so tragic. We do the same thing with musicians. We do the same thing with painters. We do the same thing with friends. Hell, we do it with authors, we do it with spiritual guides, we do it with churches, this disembodied mist of an idea that we call greatness, this kind of perfection of the thing steals the joy of having what we have in front of us, and knowing what it is and celebrating it as it is. Which is to say, learning to actually enjoy the goodness of my life might mean abandoning the pursuit or the idea of greatness. It might mean regularly dissociating myself from systems that want to always measure one thing against the other instead of simply enjoying the thing in front of us. This is why I regularly suggest, for artists specifically, a kind of combination of spiritual practices of rest. In the examination, rest provides space, space between things, but also space for my soul to catch up with itself. And in that space, practicing the examination, intentionally look back over the days that I just lived and asked my soul the question, Where was it good? As I have personally practiced this combination of rest and the examination, I have just had less of an association with an obsession with some disembodied, distant goal towards which I'm working. Instead, I've been able to look at the goodness of the life I'm living and just want more of what it is. I actually have already. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble

During the first round of the 2023 playoffs, Stephon Curry of the Golden State Warriors, my favorite team, was on the sideline, and his head coach, Steve Kerr, came to him and said, I'm going to rest you for a little while to save your energy. Now, let me hit pause here and confess, admit to pointing out, yes, you are getting a sports analogy. And so if you're not a sports See, type person, and you're not down with the sports ball, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for several reasons, one of which is that they are just such great analogies and images. Sports really do provide some wonderful parallels to the practice of life in general. So yes, I'm a sports fan. And yes, I like the Golden State Warriors. I love Steph Curry. And having lost both my other teams to Las Vegas. I'm celebrating and savoring my relationship with the Golden State Warriors. So with a few minutes left, I believe in the third quarter, head coach Steve Kerr comes to Steph Curry, potentially the greatest point guard in the history of basketball, and says I'm going to arrest you. Now, that is the kind of rest you and I, most of us, are used to not only getting but seeking. It's the kind of rest that is contextualized. By work, I am resting right now from work I've been doing so that I can get back to work and do it more effectively. And better. That's a certain kind of rest. And it's not a bad kind of rest. It's just limited that kind of rest in the long run, won't actually get to the depths of my soul, my being, and help reframe not just my work but my life and my orientation, even towards the work that I'm doing. In other words, there are different kinds of rest. And we kind of need all of them. Steve Kerr knew that Steph would just call them stuff out here. needed some rest in order for the second half to be everything. It could be for Steph Curry. And it turns out it was Steph dropping 30 points in the second half. And we beat us collectively. I took part in this victory. We beat the Sacramento Kings in game seven, a game seven in which Steph Curry scored 50 points, which at the time was the highest point total in all NBA history and a game seven. He's just fantastic. That was the rest he needed in order to do the job. And the value of the rest was predicated on its effectiveness on the work. And part of what we learn is that rest exposes our values, rest points at the things we think are most valuable about ourselves. And at that moment, the most important and valuable thing about Steph Curry was his ability to score. If all of the rest of my life is angled at setting me up so that I can work more efficiently, then what I expose in that kind of rest is that I believe my highest value is my productivity. Rest is a way it's a metric by which we understand, evaluate, and expose our own values. Which is why Sabbath Keeping is such an absolute scandal. Because what it says to the culture around us is that there are things more important about me than what I do for you. And you'll hear great athletes or great artists say something along those lines when interviewed, especially deeper into their careers, that there's more to them than basketball, there's more to them than rock and roll. There's more to them than what they do with even the best of their talents. About three years previous before that basketball game Marshawn Lynch, who had played in the NFL for a number of years, including for the Raiders, when they were in Oakland, gave an interview about football and, ultimately, about rest and rhythm. And he was asked to some degree, like what his advice would be to younger players, and you can read the entire thing. Or you can watch the video, which I would suggest you do for so many reasons whether or not you're a sports person. It's actually a fantastic piece of communication, what he says to the young the advice he would give to young folks, this is you said I've been on the other side of retirement, and it's good when you get over there. And you can do what you want. So I'll tell you all right now, while you're on it, take care of your bread. So when you're done, you can go ahead and take care of yourself. So while you're in it right now, to kill those bodies. Take care of those chicken. Chicken's a way to talk about money. Take care of those mental because, look, we ain't last in that long. I had a couple of players that I played with that they're no longer here no more. They're no longer you feel me. Take care of your metals, heals bodies, y'all chicken. So when you're ready to walk away, y'all walk away, and you'll be able to do what y'all want to do. What Marshawn Lynch is communicating is, while you're in the game, take care of yourself for something more than the game itself, that there is more to who you are than what you're doing in a particular season. That game was game seven of the playoffs, and Steph was tired. So the rest he needed was just enough to get him back on the court so he could do the job. And that's a way to do the game while you're in the game. It is not a way to live long-term. Sabbath Keeping and rest are practices that expose the values we are living with. And, namely, they expose the overvaluing we have of productivity as a way to define our lives. So take the advice of football legend, local hero of entrepreneur, and all-around dope dude Marshawn Lynch, that while you're doing what you're doing, take care of yourself, yes for the thing you're doing, but also in a way that when you walk away from the thing you're doing right now in this season, there's more of you. Links For Justin:Read Justin's SubstackOrder In The Low - NEW Book with Scott EricksonCoaching with JustinOrder In Rest - New Book of PoemsOrder Sacred StridesJustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdThe Book - It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble