Talk About Talk - Executive & Leadership Communication Skills

Has ageism impacted you – yet? Learn what ageism is, the nuances of how it affects us, and most importantly, three actionable strategies to combat it. Andrea highlights the importance of maintaining a strong personal brand, avoiding age-related details, and the opportunity to control your narrative by addressing age directly    CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn – Andrea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup  Talk About Talk YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/   AGEISM RESOURCES Douglas Guilbeault (2024) Nature – article about online images: https://techxplore.com/news/2024-02-online-images-gender-stereotypes-text.html Jessica Grose (2023) NYTimes “The Hour Between Babe and Hag”: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/04/opinion/women-men-work.html Lisa LaFlamme Story: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/open-letter-to-bell-says-laflamme-ousting-shows-sexism-ageism-women-face-at-work-1.6045084 Olena Hankivsky (2012) Social Science and Medicine: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953612000408 UN Human Development Report: https://hdr.undp.org/content/human-development-report-2023-24 Wilkinson J and Ferraro K, Thirty Years of Ageism Research. In Nelson T (ed). Ageism: Stereotyping and Prejudice Against Older Persons. Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 200 TRANSCRIPT Recently when I was on stage giving a keynote for an audience of women in the banking industry, I mentioned my age. Someone asked me an insightful question regarding a topic that I’ve recently changed my opinion on. I thought about it for a moment, and then I turned to the audience, and declared: “I’m 54 years old. And I’m still learning!” I paused and looked around. I distinctly remember noticing many encouraging smiles and nods from the audience. Interesting. Then later, several people came up to me and explicitly mentioned how impressed they were that I mentioned my age. Wow. The subtext was clear. People rarely publicly declare the taboo topic of their age. Particularly, when they’re OLD. After this recent experience, declaring my age in front of an audience, I decided to do some research and thinking about ageism. Up until now, as I’ve been preparing for this episode, I haven’t given ageism it much thought. Perhaps I’m lucky because I’m a healthy 54-year-old. Also, I run my own show. I’m responsible for creating the culture at talk about talk where ageism is definitely not tolerated. But not everybody is so fortunate. Consider those aged 50 or 60+ who are on the job market. Recently, I met such a job seeker. Let’s call her Carla. Carla is a 57-year-old Caucasian female who’s experienced ageism multiple times in her job search. Here is Carla: One cannot prove that ageism is the problem or speak to the elephant in the room if one cannot get anywhere near being in the room. Try getting past an algorithm over age 40 these days and even getting an interview. #ageismonpaper #digitalageism has us out of the running long before any now possible interview. Recruiters wont bring us in, because we’re not a “cultural fit.” If we do manage to get an interview, the person interviewing us is generally 10, 15 or even 20 years younger. Even if things went as well as possible, they will not hire you knowing you, will be taking direction from them or a similarly aged peer. Even if you’re more than willing to be a junior, you were dismissed on site before the interview started. They’re not comfortable with that scenario. My recent conversation with Carla is just one of many that I’ve had with clients about ageism – Along with racism, sexism, and the other isms, I feel like Ageism is being mentioned more and more lately. Is it just me because I’m old? Maybe. In conversations with clients, they ask me things like: Should I try to look younger? Should I try to talk younger? What words do the young folk use? Should I erase the years off my résumé and LinkedIn profile? Whether you’re young, old or somewhere in between, whether you’re looking for a new job, or whether you’re the CEO running your firm and responsible for your firm’s culture, ageism is an important topic for all of us to be conscious of – whether it’s your experience being affected by ageism, or perhaps you’re being ageist yourself. Let’s talk AGEISM. Welcome to Talk About Talk podcast episode 160. In this episode, we’re talking AGEISM – What ageism is, how it affects us, AND I’m going to highlight three strategies for you to employ if you think you may be a victim of ageism, if you believe you may be negatively impacted by your age. This is an important topic, whether you are a victim of ageism, whether you’re an ally for others, or whether you yourself might be ageist. Of course, as humans, we’re constantly judging and evaluating each other. People look at how you’re dressed, your posture, your tone of voice, your words… we make judgments, sometimes based on negative stereotypes that may result in discriminatory behaviors. We talk about the isms: including, but not limited to your height, your race, your gender, your sex, and, of course your age. Ageism is an interesting ism. Typically, when we think about age ism, we think about discrimination against older people. But as you’re about to learn, ageism also affects folks who are quote unquote too young. So, if you think about our lifespan, we typically start out as too young, and then,if we’re lucky enough, we end up being too old. I suppose that’s the beautiful irony of ageism. Ultimately the folks who are being ageist may very well end up being victimized by ageism as they too grow older. It’s poetic justice. Before we go any further, let me introduce myself. In case we haven’t met, my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki. Please just call me Andrea. Yes, I’m 54 years old. I’m an executive communication coach at talk about talk, where I coach ambitious executives to improve their communication skills so they can communicate with confidence, clarity and establish credibility. Recently, my team and I re-launched the whole TalkAboutTalk.com website. I hope you’ll check it out. Its talkabouttalk.com. You’ll find lots of resources there. Here’s something new: At the bottom of the homepage there are all sorts of free tipsheets and checklists that you can download to help you with your communication skills. Yes, it’s free. You’ll also find information on the website about my coaching, speaking and workshops, and the email newsletter.  That newsletter is your chance to get communication coaching from me every two weeks. Sound good? Please signup at talkabouttalk.com. If you’ve been listening to the Talk About Talk podcast, you might know that while I cover all of the communication skills you’d expect, like confidence and listening and storytelling, I’m mildly obsessed with the topic of personal branding and establishing your ideal professional identity. It’s a fundamental assumption of my executive coaching practice that we can shape and mold our professional identity. Certainly, we need to be authentic, but we have the opportunity to control the narrative around our respective personal brands. In my experience coaching thousands of executives, when we develop our personal brands in a disciplined and strategic way, we can get a lot of traction in terms of our career progression and our satisfaction. Are you wondering why I’m sharing this with you? Why the rant about personal branding? Well, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how this topic of personal branding fits with age and ageism. Simply put, Age is one of the many many dimensions of your brand. And it’s one that you have absolutely no control over, at least in terms of your chronological age – that is, the amount of time lapsed since you were born. Many of the elements in our respective personal brands you CAN control, at least to some extent. Consider your leadership style, your communication effectiveness, your work ethic, and how you “show up.” That said, there are dimensions of our personal brands where you have little or no choice in how you show up. Consider your childhood circumstances, your race, your geography (where you grew up and maybe even where you live now – sometimes we have very little choice in these things). And yes, your age is an element of your personal brand. Even if you don’t talk about your age. Even if you don’t flaunt it. Even if you don’t stand on stage in front of a big audience, and declare, I am 54 years old, your age is still one element of your personal brand and your professional identity. So it’s well worth your time to understand what ageism is, how it can affect you, and what you can do about it. Have you ever had any of these experiences? Someone told you that, “You look good – for your age”?  Someone mentioned, “I can’t believe you’re 54 years old!”?  Or – when you look around your firm or your industry, you notice that the prime, high-visibility assignments are being awarded to younger folks as opposed to those with valuable experience.  Or – like Carla, whom you heard from a few minutes ago, you were outright denied a job or promotion because of your age?  If you’re listening from outside of Canada, you may not have heard about the story of journalist Lisa LaFlamme’s experience. I’ll leave a link to her story in the shownotes.  Laflamme was a highly regarded national news anchor here in Canada at CTV news. She was well respected with over 35 years of journalism experience. In the year 2022 she decided to let her dyed dark brown hair go to its natural gray. In August 2022 she was let go. She was terminated. Coincidence?  The backlash was instant and strong, at the grassroots level, and at the formal institutional level. CTV’s parent company Bell media went on record, saying that terminating LaFlamme’s contract after 35 years was a business decision, and they wanted to move her anchor role in a “different direction.” Then the head of bell media took a leave of absence. And there was a formal open letter that was signed by well-known and highly reputed politicians, business people, journalists, celebrities, and more, all supporting Lisa LaFlamme and criticizing BellMedia and CTV. Notably, this open letter also identified that sexism played a role in the termination of LaFlammes contract. More on the intersectionality of ageism and sexism in a minute. My point in sharing Lisa LaFlamme’s high profile story here is to illustrate that ageism is on our cultural radar. It’s talked about in the media. Lets start by defining ageism. The term ageism was coined in the late 1960s by American physician and gerontologist Robert Neil Butler. Yes, gerontologist, as in geriatric. At the time, Dr. Butler was referring to the treatment of elderly people. Since then, this AGEISM term has evolved to also describe discrimination against younger people as well.  Dr. Butler defined AGEISM as a combination of three things: negative attitudes towards old age and the aging process discriminatory practices against older people institutional practices and policies that perpetuate stereotypes about elderly people This three-point definition is important. It can help you identify ageism when you see it. This three-point definition also reminds me of Ron Tite’s “think do say” framework from our last episode. Ageism includes what people think, do & say.. The thinking is the negative attitudes, the doing is the discriminatory practices, and the saying is the institutionalization of these practises and policies. Research identifies several types of ageism. Note these are not mutually exclusive. But they can be helpful in thinking about ageism that you experience or witness:  Explicit and implicit ageism depending on whether you are consciously aware of it Benevolent ageism where someone holds patronizing beliefs about age. Think: “Sweet Old Lady.” Hostile ageism whch is having “openly aggressive beliefs about age, such as that teenagers are violent or dangerous” Interpersonal ageism, which, as you might imagine, occurs in social situations Internalized ageism which is focused your beliefs about yourself. (Yes, you can be ageist about yourself.  And if this is you – just stop!) Institutional ageism which shows up in policies and actions That’s a lot of ageism. Yes, ageism is institutionalized. It’s culturally ingrained.  According to the World Health Organization:  “Children as young as 4 years old become aware of their culture’s age stereotypes. From that age onwards they internalize and use these stereotypes to guide their feelings and behavior towards people of different ages.” So Ageism includes negative attitudes, discriminatory practises, and institutionalized practices and policies by people of all ages, against people we think are too old and/or who are too young.   This reminds me of a conversation I had a couple of years ago with a very impressive, 40-something female CEO of a large apparel brand that I’m quite certain you’ve heard of. She told me that when she people ask her what she does, of course she tells them she’s the CEO. Almost like clockwork, she tells me, they say, “Oh, CEO of the Canadian division?” “No. I’m a global CEO.” Typically that’s followed by a moment of silence. Lol. But it’s really not funny. Depending on these people, their response might be to be even more critical of her because of her young age. Men also experience ageism in terms of being “ -“ too young. One of my good friends was promoted to the role of CEO of a big global company when he was in his 40s. He told me that he was conscious of the fact that many people believed he was too young and we joked about putting white paint in his hair so at least he’d have a few grey hairs. So yes, ageism is real, even for the young folk. At the beginning of this episode, I shared a story where I was delivering a Keynote to an audience of women in the financial industry  when I mentioned my age. After my Keynote, I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with an ambitious middle level manager who works in the corporate head office of a big bank. This woman is noticeably attractive. She’s undeniably very pretty. She told me that she believes her appearance hinders her career progression. But she wasn’t commenting on her attractiveness. She was commenting on the fact that she looks younger than she really is. She constantly wonders whether she’s being held back because people believe she’s too young. She even brought it up with her manager. You might be thinking oh, poor thing! LOL. But her concern is real and shared by others. Last year there was a fantastic article by Jessica Grose in the New York Times, addressing this intersectionality between ageism and sexism, aptly called, The Hour Between Babe and Hag. The title says it all doesn’t it? As a woman in the workplace, you’re either considered a young babe or an old hag. There’s only one hour between the two. The author quotes social gerontologist Tetyana Shippee, who reports the following:  “From ages 18 to 30, women report age discrimination due to being too young. From your mid-30s to your mid-40s is a safe time. Then age discrimination starts to pick up again after age 50, and it’s especially high after 55-plus.” Did you get that? From ages 18 to 30 you’re too young. From your mid 30s to your mid 40s it’s relatively safe. Then discrimination starts to pick up again after age 50 and especially after 55. (Yikes, I’m in trouble.) This is further compounded for women from racialized or underrepresented communities. Again, that lovely intersectionality term. Recent academic research also validates how ageism negatively impacts women more so than men. I included links in the show otes to various articles, including one academic article that concluded that online images reinforce gender stereotypes that contribute to BOTH ageism AND sexism, against women in particular. Another academic article confirmed the structural bias within healthcare that negatively impacts older female patients, in particular. Even the United Nations weighs in here. The 2023-24 United Nations human development report concluded that older women face compounded advantages relative to other groups based on ageism, and sexism. That all said, there is ageism affecting men in the workplace, too. For them, this ageism generally happens much later in their careers, not during their prime earning years. Phew.  This is all so heavy. Male or female, young or old,  if you’re experiencing ageism in your career, I hope this information at least validates your experience.  So far in this episode, we’ve defined ageism in terms of negative attitudes, discriminatory, behaviors, and institutionalized policies and practices, remember, think do say, and I’ve provided you with plenty of examples, and we’ve talked about how ageism interacts with sexism. The question is, what do you do about it? Especially when you’re the victim. This is where it gets good. I’ve got some ideas for you for How to Deal with Ageism If you’re concerned about age-based discrimination, my advice for you is threefold: (1)A strong personal brand goes a long way.  When you introduce yourself with confidence and mention your unique strengths, you focus everyone’s attention on the value you provide. For example, you might highlight your specific experiences, your expertise, your credentials, your leadership style, and/or your successes. Make these the salient points. Without a strong personal brand and inspiring self introduction, it’s possible that people will think about you as that older woman or that older guy. If you’ve done the work to develop your personal brand, and you introduced yourself with confidence, highlighting your strengths, your passions, and your super power, suddenly people might be thinking about you as “ a senior banking executive with unparallelled people skills,” or “the senior HR executive with a proven track record of solving problems, big and small.” So that’s my first suggestion for you, if you’re experiencing ageism. Develop your unique personal brand. My second suggestion in combating ageism is: (2) Avoid providing details that allow people to “do the math.“  As I’m saying, this, I realize this one’s gonna get me in trouble. If you’re proud of your age and you’re not concerned about ageism, then skip this one. Go ahead and tell them you graduated from high school in 1988. Do you remember Carla, who you heard from at the beginning of the episode talking about #DigitalAgeism? Here she is, talking about filling in the application form for a new job as a 57-year-old. We’re also often asked to put when we went to school on our major. For those of us decades into our careers, that is generally irrelevant. But it sure gives the algorithm what they need to discredit us at the get go.  Ugh.  I feel your pain, Carla. So do you have to include the years you graduated from college or the years you were in your first jobs? I get asked this question all the time. My suggestion is this. If you’re filling out a form where these questions about years are asked, then yes of course you need to include these dates. Otherwise, avoid providing details that allow people to do the math. This is about purposefully not reminding people of your age, without compromising your authenticity. It’s not that you’re being untruthful. Rather, you’re choosing to not remind them that you graduated from University in the previous century. Let me give you a few examples: If you talk about your children at work, you don’t need to mention their ages. (e.g. “My daughter…” as opposed to “My 35 year old daughter…”) You don’t need to highlight the decade when you grew up (e.g. “When I was a teenager…” as opposed to “Back in the 70’s when I was a teenager…”)  Yes, you can delete the year you earned your undergraduate degree. Most employers don’t care what year you graduated, it’s more about the credential. (That said, They do want to see how many years you worked in various jobs.) And of course, if you’re filling out a form you need to include this information. Onto the third and last suggestion for how to deal with ageism, we’ve covered focussing on other elements of your unique personal brand, and we’ve covered avoiding providing details that allow people to do the math. My third suggestion is this. (3)Sometimes calling out the elephant in the room can be a smart strategy.  This is a perfect example of what I call, “controlling the narrative.” Instead of avoiding the topic of your age, try, addressing your age, head on in a way that strategically controls the narrative. For example, you could say:  “My extensive experience over the decades provides me with a catalog of relevant case studies that I can draw on…” “I might be the only person in the room with gray hair, but I’m also the only person who’s done this before. I have so many insights and experiences to share with the team…” or – “I’m 54 and I’m still learning!” Speaking of 54, that reminds me of a fantastic book that I read that I strongly recommend, particularly if you’re north of 50 years. It’s called “From strength to strength” by Arthur C. Brooks. The subtitle is Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life. In this book, Brooks describes how many of us, including me, including him, focus over the years on ambition and productivity.  Then at some point, probably earlier than you think, you hit an inflection point in terms of your cognitive abilities.  They call it cognitive decline. Brooks advoicates jumping off that productivity and ambition curve to a new output, focused on sharing your  wisdom.  When I read Brooks prescription for happiness and success, I felt very validated, as my career has evolved from being an ambitious and productive brand manager, then academic, and now shifting to a new track where I’m sharing my wisdom as a coach. Question, how can you shift your focus to sharing your wisdom and expertise? Before you reject Arthur Brooks’ advice, because you think it might not be relevant, consider what opportunities you may have in your current industry or your current function where you can share your wisdom. I share this idea with some of my clients in other industries. It’s something to consider.  Again, I will leave a link to the book “from strength to strength” in the show notes. And that’s it for this episode. I hope these insights about ageism will encourage you to question your own attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors. And certainly to call out others when they might be ageist. I also encourage you if you are the victim of ageism to consider my three suggestions: Develop a strong personal  brand. Focus peoples attention on your strengths. Avoid reminding people of your age. Unless you’re filling out a form, that explicitly asked for years and dates, you don’t need to prompt people to do the math to figure out how old you are. Sometimes calling out the elephant in the room can be a smart strategy. Reference your age and control the narrative. Turn your experience into a positive. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, I do hope you’ll share with your friends, young and old, who could also benefit from some insights about ageism. You could also leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. These reviews make a nbbigg difference in the podcast algorithm, and I appreciate it. Don’t forget to check out the recently re-launched talkabouttalk.com website and to sign up signup for my free communication coaching newsletter.  Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon! The post Let’s Talk AGEISM (ep.160) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

“Think Do Say” author Ron Tite joins Andrea to talk about thinking before saying, leaning in to our idiosyncrasies (or “bugs”), thoughts on profanity, how filtering your personal brand is like choosing an outfit from your closet, and how to deal with those annoying pitch slappers! RON TITE RESOURCES “THINK DO SAY: How to seize attention and build trust in a busy, busy world” by Ron Tite – https://amzn.to/4bO2hqf LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/rontite/ (no pitch slapping, please) Church+State agency – https://churchstate.co/ Video reco: “Talking Funny” with Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, Rickey Gervais & Louis CK – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKY6BGcx37k Book reco: “What they don’t teach you at Harvard Business School” – https://amzn.to/3yGJaQA CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT If you’re like me, and a lot of people that I talk to, you probably have a love hate relationship with social media. We love connecting with interesting people and learning new things. but we hate the annoying people and wasting our time. sound familiar? I choose to spend most of my time on social media on linkedin. LinkedIn used to be the online platform for job seekers. but nowadays it’s more like the virtual water cooler conversation. sure it’s focused on our careers and our professional life but it’s a lot more than just job seeking. it’s learning, it’s mentoring, it’s connecting, and a lot more. Of course there are the folks on LinkedIn who are constantly in sales mode, sending you direct messages To help you accelerate your sales funnel or gain a million followers. I also get a lot of pitches from people who want to be a guest on this podcast or who want to write a guest post on the talkabouttalk.com website. again, this is all about generating sales. So annoying. That all said, just about every day I read something that inspires me on linkedin. There are certain people who I follow who consistently add value to the platform. one of these folks is the knowledgeable, generous and entertaining Ron Tite, whom you’re going to meet in just a few minutes In this conversation with ron, you’re going to his advice for how to simplify your out of control brand strategy document. We also talk about how to apply these insights to your own Personal brand. We cover the difference between self-awareness, honesty, transparency and authenticity, we cover insights about profanity, and yes, we talk about Pitch-Slappers… Pitch slappers is the name is the label that Ron tight gave to those annoying folks on social media who politely request a connection and then bam – slap you with a pitch. he even created a segmentation scheme for them. Pitch slappers is the label that Ron Tite gave to those annoying folks on social media who politely request a connection and then bam – slap you with a pitch. he even created a segmentation scheme for them. there’s the Groper, The stumble upon, The smoke blower, The howdy partner, The mother, or father Teresa, The script follower, And, of course Robbie random. I love it! Welcome to Talk about Talk podcast episode #159 “Think, Do Say” with Ron Tite”.    In case we haven’t met, my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please just call me Andrea. I coach executives like you to improve your communication skills so you can communicate with confidence and and ultimately achieve your career goals. You can learn more about what I do on the talkabouttalk.com website. There are lots and lots of resources for you there. There’s one-on-one coaching, boot camps, online courses, information about corporate workshops, and of course, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast. And while you’re on the website, I really hope to sign up for my bi-weekly email newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me in your email inbox, plus some behind-the-scenes insights, information about the most recent podcast episodes, and upcoming programs. So please sign up for that newsletter.   Ok, let’s get into this. I’m sure you want to hear from Ron Tite. If you’re a frequent listener of talk about talk, you probably know how this is going to go. First, I’ll introduce Ron, we’ll get right into the interview. Then at the end I’m going to summarize with the top three learnings that I want to reinforce with you, based on the interview. Three things that I hope will help you in your quest for improved communication skills.   Now, let me introduce Ron.   As an entrepreneur, speaker, and best-selling author, Ron Tite has always blurred the lines between art and commerce. Ron is what you might call a Renaissance man. He is founder and chief strategy and creative officer of an agency called Church+State, host and executive producer of the hit podcast, The Coup, and executive producer of the Canadian Screen Award nominated documentary film, Fresh Water (Crave, 2021). He has written for television, has been a frequent guest on CTV, CBC, and Global news programs, and was a judge on the CTV business reality show, Dream Funded. He wrote and performed a hit play. Created a branded art gallery. Published an award winning comedy book for the CBC. And for 5 years was the host and executive producer of the Canadian Comedy Award nominated show, Monkey Toast. This was before the time a few years ago when I was a guest on monkey toast. quite an experience, having improv actors on stage basically making fun of you. yes, Ron has a great sense of humor. He’s very clever. he’s also in demand as a speaker all over the world. Ron speaks to leading organizations about topics such as creativity, disruption, leadership, and growth.  He’s also written a few books. in 2016 he co-authored his first book called open quotes Everyone’s an artist, or at least they should be his second book is the one we’ll be talking about in this episode, quote think do say how to seize attention and build trust in a busy busy world close quote. His 3rd book, The Purpose of Purpose, will be released in the fall of 2024. I can’t wait to get my hands on that one. but now let’s listen to Ron’s insights about thinking, doing and saying.   INTERVIEW Thank you very much, Ron, for joining us here today to talk about, think, do, and say. Ron Tite: Well, thanks, Andrea, thanks for having me. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Why don’t we start by having you describe what the main premise of your book is which I’ve got sitting here right over my corner, the corner of my shoulder. Ron Tite: Beautiful. Over there looks fantastic. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Doesn’t it look fantastic? It’s it’s actually always there. It’s usually turned in. Ron Tite: Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Always there it is Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: so why don’t you describe what you mean by thinking, doing, and saying. Ron Tite: Well, this was in reaction to what I saw, as business leaders are the business leaders over complicating their business. and we just went through man. It was like, we need a mission. We need a vision. We need a north star. We need a be, hey? We need a purpose like it was just. It was just getting endless, and I was going around and doing a ton of speeches, and I started to speak to frontline employees. And how do they kind of connect what the organization believes into their actions like? How do they contribute to the goals of the organization? And historically, they would just they would go like they’d either go. I have no idea what a mission revision is. I have no clue. What that what that means, and how it relates to my job. or they would know it by heart. You know they’d go. The mission of this organization isn’t. But and they would. They would spew that because it was beaten their heads on on onboarding day. but they again had no idea what it meant. And so I thought we we, as because business got so complicated that we needed a simplified operating system in order to kind of run and grow businesses. And I just think it was like, well, what’s the simplest. the operating system? And it is really that successful organizations can align what they fundamentally believe. The think part what they do to reinforce that belief, the do part. And then how do they talk about it? And that when you look at, you know, successful organizations, they’re really they’re focused by a sense of purpose. They’re focused by a sense of purpose. They’re still defined by the actions that they take, and that when you look at growth, it happens, really depending on how we, how we talk about it, how we communicate it, and only then will people adopt our ideas and our passions. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I’m imagining you running your agency and getting maybe a creative brief from a consumer package goods or some other organization. And and it has all of these things in it that you were listing. Right. Here’s the vision of the brand. Here’s the mission. Here’s the personality. Here’s the values. And you’re like. it’s not helpful. Right? It’s. Ron Tite: Yeah, it’s just like, well, where do you focus? Which one do you? It’s like that Spiderman meme, you know of, just like, what is it over here? What? Ron Tite: And and I just thought we needed to simplify because the inputs to it could be really complicated. There’s way, more tools. The consumer journey is, you know, way more complex than it ever has been before. The sales funnel is completely dead. It’s now a sales cyclone like there’s all these things. Ron Tite: And and I just thought like those. And and it’s only gonna grow. It’s only gonna become increasingly complicated. So let’s simplify the operating system that handles all those in. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So? Is it a sequence in that order? First you think. then you do, then you say. Ron Tite: Yes, it’s really funny, cause and I was very conscious about that. And the day I the day the book launched I think I was in a saskatoon or something, and and I was on a I had a morning hit on like a morning show, a TV morning show, and and the anchor, said the he’s the author of Think, say, do, and I thought I can’t correct him. Live on air but everybody often will say he’s the author of things they do. They get it wrong? Because our mind, I think, naturally puts the promotion part before the action part. And I think that’s wrong. I think we want to talk about it first. and before we actually do it. And if we talk about something, what we haven’t done. even if it’s aspirational that has way less credibility. Then you know than stuff that is currently in place or actions that are currently taking place. So yeah, so the do goes before they say. And you need to first figure out what you fundamentally believe in as an organization. And only then, can you, you know, should you focus the activities on reinforcing that purpose, and then, and only once, it’s done. Should you be talking about it. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So you probably see this massive smile on my face. Ron. Ron Tite: Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I coach the the topic that I coach executives on more than any other is actually their personal brand, which I say it’s synonymous in terms of their professional identity. So I’m not talking about turning people into social media influencers or monetizing their brand. I’m talking about them. thinking deeply about who they are, what they care about what their expertise and passions are, and then going out and communicating it. So I I actually say explicitly. compared to other communication coaches. When you work with me, we’re going to spend way more time on step one which is creating or articulating the brand, and then step 2, the communicating becomes so much easier. Ron Tite: Right and. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. So I think that might be one of the reasons why that your book resonated with me. So much. So it’s that, plus the fact that you’re really encouraging consistency. right? Ron Tite: This is a rapid head. Nod. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, I see a big smile there, too. Yeah, yeah. So I you know what I say sometimes is garbage in garbage, out quality and quality out, and I don’t understand. So I’ve you know I’m curious what other coaches are, and personal branding coaches are coaching their folks on, and I see. So sign up and I’ll teach you how to get 1,000 followers. What you need to do is, you know, fill in the blanks with these posts online and guaranteed. And I’m like, Wait, what? How do they know what they’re even talking about? Yeah, I mean. Ron Tite: And Warren Tomlin calls it random acts of digital. It’s just random bunch of random stuff. And yeah, we when we work with brands and executives, and we use that is, I mean, the book and the speech are what I, you know, call that the kind of the corporate theater version of it. But when we get into, you know, working with, you know big brands. It gets way more granular and kind of way, more strategic but it’s still. It’s the exact same operating system. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So have you ever thought about the analogy of taking your process that you take your clients through to a person. Ron Tite: Yeah, yeah, we. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Brands to people, brands right? Ron Tite: Oh, yeah, yeah, we’ve we’ve worked with Olympians. We’ve we’re right now. We’re working with 2 executives. So sometimes the organization will go through a huge transformation. and we think that often not always. but often, the face of the company can be a separate, independent marketing channel and that it can drive investor relations. It can drive internal alignment. It can drive, you know, prospects and biz dev and things like that. And so. But we can’t just have them kind of parroting. You know what the organizational beliefs are. So you know, as an example. One. I can’t say the organization right yet, cause. It’s not live yet, but large Canadian organization, and who have fundamental beliefs about the category that they’re in. Now when we get to the CEO, what does she believe in? Well, we’re articulating in the in the area of collaborative leadership. that how are they? Gonna how is the organization going to achieve this with various stakeholders. It’s through collaborative leadership. And so that’s what the person stands for, and that contributes to what the organizational goals are. But it’s how she plays an individual role in it. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Interesting. I could go off on a tangent inquiring about collaborative leadership and what the difference is between that and servant leadership. But I’m not going to go there. I’m going to ask you another question with very many of my clients when I’m coaching them on their personal brand. I asked them whether there’s part of their identity that they know is unique about them. Did they end up trying to hide. especially in their job? And there’s a quote in your book where you say it’s not a bug, it’s a feature. And when I read that I was like ding ding. So, for example, I want to. I want to give you a couple of examples. One is a common one is when people have an accent, and they say to me, Andrea, can you help me bury my accent? I don’t want to have an accent anymore, because I’m I’m thought of as the foreigner I’m like, hang on a second. The research says. if I can understand you clearly and I can, then I then I register for an accent, and then I just hear the content like it’s insignificant. Secondly, this is your opportunity to provide evidence of something that actually is valuable. And that is your global experience. Right? So you’re not a foreigner. You’re a lawyer with global experience and. Ron Tite: Thrilled with that. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: And the other example is a woman that I was coaching who’s a senior partner at one of the big audit firms. and she said, well, I know what stands out about me is my sense of humor, and I really have to quash it. So I know. And we can. We can also talk a lot about humor, because I think you have a great sense of humor. But I said to her, Didn’t you just get promoted? Yeah, does your boss not know you have a sense of humor? Yeah. Do you think that your sense of humor was part of the reason you got promoted? She goes I don’t know. And I said, Well, are you not the person in the room that brings levity to otherwise overly intense situations? She goes well, yeah. And I said, and you know, not to tell off color, you know. Inappropriate jokes, of course, even though even though that’s my what might be playing in the track in your head. And she said, Okay, okay. And I said, you need to lean. Lean into this as your superpower. It’s not your main superpower, but it’s one of them. And she she felt this immense sense of relief. Can you comment on this whole thing? The it’s not a bug. It’s a feature. I’m going to quote you on that. I love that. Ron Tite: Yeah, that that was from a from a a CEO who Chatham house rules were in effect, so I can’t tell you who it was. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Hey! Ron Tite: But he was. He is the a global CEO of a of a global software company that we all know. And he’s from the deep South in the Us. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay. Oh. Ron Tite: And he was at a Cp. Before the software company was at a Cpg. Who will go unnamed, and they sent him on a Leadership Development course when he hit Vp. And he said, I quickly realized the sole purpose of the Leadership Development course was to get me to lose my Southern accent because they didn’t feel I’d have credibility on the global stage. And that’s when he said. And I kait cause I realized it is a bug. It’s a feature. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Love it. Ron Tite: Yeah, it was amazing. But I think there’s a couple of things with that. I think if you if you hide something from well, I think we all have this like belief that we’re supposed to look and act and sound like the stock photo version of whatever we think an executive in our field is supposed to look and act and sound like.Hmm. And that’s just bullshit it. It is because you and when you do that you kind of take on this mindset that oh, this is what I’m supposed to say, and this is what I’m supposed to do, and you lose your authenticity and you lose your uniqueness. And I think in the gut of the people that you’re dealing with. They think if they’re hiding the real you for me, like, what else are you hiding like? This is just some Polish scripted version of of you, and I don’t know what you’re hiding there. And so that’s the first thing is, I think authenticity helps to build trust. My definition of authenticity is just being comfortable with your supposed imperfections. Because that’s what people buy. That’s what they that’s what they trust, and that’s what they believe. The other side of it, though, is that when people go one of them in a hall, you know, like, am I supposed to lean into that authentic person. And so yeah, there has to be a business model that supports your authentic self, so you can’t just be who you are. But there’s also, you know, to the example that you talked about with the, with the humor. the metaphor there is. you know. if if you’re single and you’re going on blind dates. Well, you probably have a whole wardrobe of clothes, and if you find out you’re going on a date with an investment banker. You probably go. You know what I’m gonna wear this suit. I’m gonna wear this one but if you have a date with a total tree hugger. Then you probably have something else. You more dribble. You’re like, you know, I’m gonna wear this thing. This is what I’m gonna wear for for this. And so what you’re doing is you’re accessing different aspects of your personality. And all these things are all in your wardrobe. They’re all a shade of yourself, but they’re true and authentic. You already own them. Now, if you go out and buy something that you don’t have to try and become something that you’re not. Then you can fee you feel it. It doesn’t feel right, you know, like everything. And you just. You’re not. You never yourself. So to the people who are. You know the the funny people they’re like, well, I’m funny, but I can’t bring it to a meeting like well, you probably don’t bring it to a funeral, do you? No, okay, so that’s where there’s kind of 0% humor is your funerals version of yourself. But but to a baby shower. Oh, you probably have a little bit of humor that that shows up, and to to a board meeting there’s probably a little bit there, and you, you know, and you dial all the way up to sitting on a dock with a beer with your friends. So we’re not all 100 humor. you know, executive and 0% humor executive. We all have shades of those different personalities, and it’s dialing them up and dialing them down to suit the situation that we’re in. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love that shades and dialing it up and dialing it down. I talk about filtering right? So that’s I say, the F word of personal branding is filtering. Share every part of yourself with every single person that you meet. They think you were crazy. You couldn’t show up wearing your entire wardrobe right. Ron Tite: Right. That’s. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I like that analogy as well. It’s beautiful. Ron Tite: One of one of the. It’s funny because one of the first things I do Ron Tite: in speeches. Usually they’re they’re always different. But I’ll usually talk about my kids within the first 3 min and make a joke about like I’m 53, and I have a 4 year old and a 6 year old. and right away it takes the script of the speaker that they’ve heard 4 million times and removes it. And it’s and it just shows up. It shows the human that who’s before them opposed to just the the speaker. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: There’s something about talking about our family, isn’t there? Ron Tite: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Me. It’s I have 3 ginormous children. My my sons are 6, 7, and 6 8 Am. Ron Tite: Like no. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. And people go. How do you feed them? I’m like, Oh, let me talk. Talk to you about like inventory in the refrigerator. It’s ridiculous. Ron Tite: Wow! Oh, yeah, they tower. They would tower over me. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. And I buy like 2 bunches of bananas. And then I get up in the morning. They’re all gone. I’m like, anyway. Yeah, there’s there’s something about talking about your family, though, that just you know. Okay, I saw a little glimpse into your life right. Ron Tite: Yeah, exactly. So. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You mentioned authenticity. This is another topic that I’m often questioned about, that I have a lot of thoughts about Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: after well, during and after the pandemic there was there was a common headline, that was or question, I guess. Should we share our whole selves at work? Yes or no? Ron Tite: Was like. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: We should never share our whole selves. People would think we’re crazy right? And then I was like, if you’re talking. And also what’s the difference between authenticity and transparency. because a lot of people think being transparent and being authentic means sharing everything like every part of your personal life, like the bad stuff your kids did, or the thing that you’re not proud of, or whatever right can you talk about that a little bit and and relate it back also to product brands. Ron Tite: Yeah. I I’d love that inside of that cause. There are a lot of people who like, I’m gonna over share, because that’s being transparent. It’s like, Hmm, we, you know. I don’t think we need to know everything, especially if it if we, you know, if it doesn’t contribute to the positioning of the brand, be it personal or organizational, then I don’t think you want to talk about your failures now, I think. saying and being honest and saying, of course I’ve had stuff that hasn’t gone the way I thought it was going to go. Of course, like, of course, I have but that doesn’t mean we have to get up every single day and share every single detail of like what went wrong that day, where we let ourselves down and everything. I don’t. I don’t think we we need to share that, because what I find is that then that just becomes the stuff that people share. That’s the only thing they share. Yeah. And they don’t. You know, they don’t end up sharing the great business insight. They don’t share the positive stuff they don’t like. And so I think you need to keep focused on where you’re going to add value for people, and anything that helps you add value like the honesty that goes like, oh, that’s gonna bring more trust to to my message. Then, of course, you share that, and anything that detracts from it. Maybe you don’t lead with that now, of course, when questioned, or if it comes up like, of course you do, you know you don’t lie about anything? I do think it does get weird when? What? The definition, because the definition is different for everybody. Some people don’t want to share like their background kind of thing. So I’m in my basement. And the reason I have this is because I use I love you good, but I use like, you know. Oh, there we go, you know. So I. So there’s my kids right? So I use photos in doing virtual keynote presentations. And it’s just way easier for me to do this and post to creating a a background for for people. But I did say in the middle of the pandemic at 1 point. that I thought people that when you do welcome your personal life into your work life that your roots are showing. And I don’t. Yeah mean these roots. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Nice. Ron Tite: It’s your roots, the things that keep you grounded and and focused and and stable those things, I think when you expose your roots, then I think, you people get to see where your stability comes from and where the important things are in your life. So oftentimes because my office is in the basement. The kids are home, that door will open and the kids will come in. and I will immediately. Even if it’s a client, I will pop my kids up on my lap, and I wear an earpie so they can’t really hear what’s going on anyhow. But I have no issues having my kid join a meeting like I’ve no no clause button at all. Not everybody else shares that definition, and that’s totally cool. I think you just need to stay within the boundaries that you’ve established for yourself. Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: But so, as you were describing that I was, I was thinking about the hero’s journey archetype. and how you probably witness this as well, right. There’s there’s this successful storyline right where you have someone. Their their mom dies. Usually it’s the Disney story, right? The mother dies. They flounder. They find someone. They’re not sure where they’re to trust them. They have to make a decision. There’s a crisis, this whole story, right? And and the popular advice. If you’re standing up on stage, is be vulnerable and share a story. Follow the hero’s journey, and I feel like sometimes you said people get obsessed, and they? They fall into this. This, I’m paraphrasing what you said. But they they fall into this pattern of it’s almost like self deprecation. Yeah, right? It. Do you. Do you think it’s related to this common advice of what’s your hero’s journey story? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think I think we. And which is Ron Tite: especially from a speaking standpoint. that’s the wrong approach. You don’t want to be the hero on stage. Like all those stories I’ll tell young speakers. They’ll come to me, and they’ll say, you know, I’ve got a really unique story that I should share on stage. and I’ll always stop them and go great. Just hold on a sec. I want to hear the story. That’s okay, just remember one thing. the guy before you, the person who spoke before you. He went to space. But the space. Okay, now, how special is this story you got. And they’re like, I built a business that you’re like, right? Yeah, not so special, so special to you. Not that you shouldn’t be proud of, so I don’t speak about Church and State on stage. I don’t share any of our work. I don’t do any of it, cause I’m not there to be the hero. I’m not saying you should live like me. No, I am here as a curator of of information, and my advice is sure. Surely it is based on personal experience and what I’ve gone through. But it also is what the literature has kind of said. This is what works really well, and it’s a mix of data and anecdotes and stuff. The only time I share a personal story is when somebody else is the hero in my story. then it makes it really unique, and nobody else can tell that story. But I shouldn’t be the hero in that story. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You’re making me think about all the stories that I’ve been telling, and I’m thinking, am I the hero, or is someone else the hero. I love telling stories of transformation of my clients. Not. I’m not making myself the hero for coaching them to that. It’s they’re the hero for raising their hand, for self-improvement or self-development right, and then doing the work. Ron Tite: Yeah, I mean, it’s. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Purple that that’s this message. Ron Tite: Ye. Yeah, I mean, I think it all comes down to like I won’t do it in speeches, cause it’s only an hour, and I’m you know there’s a very specific reason I’m there. But if you look at the body of Linkedin work well. you know, I post typically, I share stuff 3 times a day. So that’s a ton of content. and I know that occasionally I will, you know. share something really vulnerable. I will talk about my mom. The effect my mom had on me. And here’s what’s crazy is. I know that when I do that the number of shares and likes, and but all the superficial metric stuff is going to go through the roof. I know that and most marketers would go. Oh, that’s driving your numbers. You should just do more of that. and I go. I don’t wanna do. I don’t wanna do more. I don’t wanna be that person, that’s all they share is those vulnerable, vulnerable things, but 5% of the post, 2% in the post. Sure. I think that then, makes you a more complete human being. And do I talk about what we do at church and state? 7% of the post, or whatever you know, whatever the numbers are. Yeah. But I try and make the majority of the stuff somebody else’s thoughts that can add value to the person who’s reading it. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Well, Ron, you’ve established a track track record on Linkedin of someone who has valuable information and learning to share with people. You’re funny, you’re insightful. And and so when you show up with something that’s vulnerable and and really authentic, maybe you’re being more transparent about your personal life or your personal experience. That’s why you’re seeing the numbers. I think if they you’re right. If they were all like that, people would be like, Who is this guy? Ron Tite: Yeah. So people who like take pictures of themselves crying right? Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: There was that one of those went viral. But people were were basically hating on the guy that did that. I don’t know. That was a couple of months ago. Yeah. Speaking of Linkedin, before I pressed record, I was thinking. there’s a good side and a bad side of Linkedin right? The good side is. I got to meet you. Ron Tite: Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I read your posts. I was impressed. I bought your book, I read your book, I invited you to be on my podcast, thank you, Linkedin, for that. Ron Tite: He does. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So a bad side of Linkedin, and you talk about it in your book. It’s called The Pitch Slappers. Can you explain that to the readers. This is, oh, I could! We could do the whole interview about this, but. Ron Tite: Yeah, there, there, you know, back when I was a creative director at Havas, like, just in the kind of the rise of digital and social and stuff. All the pure play digital people like, oh, just you wait, man, T, cause I was, you know. you know, create a vector on a whack of TV spots. And they’d be like, just you wait. Because when digital really comes in, people are only gonna get the ads that they wanna see for the products that they need when they need them on the platforms that they’re on, you know there’ll be no more innocent by standards. And I was like, well, this, this will be great. And you know it was always supposed to be about personalization and customization, not scale. And what people use digital tools now is just for scale. They’re like, if I get point 0 2% of the people who click through, then I don’t mind sending 2 million messages. I don’t mind taking the opportunity to pitch slap somebody every single opportunity I get. If they hate me, I don’t care. Cause point 2% of them is gonna is are gonna convert. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: What do they call it? Spray and play? Is that what they. Ron Tite: Spray, and pray. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Right, yeah, right. Ron Tite: Right? Yeah. And it’s just. And you know. I just think it’s not that it doesn’t work either. Right? I’m not saying it doesn’t work. Of course, it works at point 2%. You’re gonna get and people build businesses based on this. But then you got to be that person. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. Ron Tite: But that’s the person you become. You’ve become the person whose sales pitch is more important than your than your authenticity. and and of course, we’re all there on some level, because we’re interested in business. And we wanna take those tools and those conversations and apply them so that we can improve our businesses and grow our businesses, and there’s an element of sales in all of us and everything that we do. And there’s just a way of earning the trust in order to pitch yourself or your ideas? And building up trust that your priority is to add value opposed to just going for the jugular every single time. I just it’s like it’s it’s like innocent bystanders you’re like, I I’m not even in your target. I don’t know if you saw this thing I’d share that they have somebody who reached out and says, like, I have a client. I’m a certified broker. They wanna buy a church. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I saw that. Ron Tite: What like. Clearly. you just are. You’re using this for scale. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. Ron Tite: And I don’t feel so special anymore, let alone. I’m not an owner of a church. So I I I get. Why, it’s so easy. And I get why, there’s an inner. I have the. I fight those demons, too right. I fight the demon of like man. I really would love to work with that client, and I should just pitchlap them. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: No, but you wouldn’t pitch slap them right? Cause I’m I’m just going to read what the segmentation scheme that you create you created. There’s the groper stumble upon the smokeblower. Gotta love them. Yeah. Howdy, partner? The mother, Teresa or Father Teresa, the script follower and Robbie Random. hey, hey? Andrea? What’s your favorite Bagel. Ron Tite: Yeah, it’s just like random email pitch, Link Linkedin messages that the the and you just, you just know when they come in of which segment they’re in. The smoke blower is like the person is like. You are so brilliant. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, I list andre, I listen to your podcast on fill in the blank podcast. Episode. And I really loved it. They don’t say anything about it. They clearly they didn’t listen. Ron Tite: Coming in there. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Not that. Not that I would not that it would make a difference anyway, but flattery does not get you everywhere. Ron Tite: No. no, it does not. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: So I’ve gone through phases where I’ve unconnected like. So some of these, some of these people that are messaging me on Linkedin are my connections. I don’t know them. And I’ve gone through phases where, if someone requests to connect with me and it says. I’ll grow your podcast downloads 10 times, or hey, coaches triple your income by working with me. That’s in their headline. So you know what’s gonna happen right? It’s like a foreshadowing. Yeah, really, even a foreshadowing. But now I just I accept it, and then I get the message and I just ignore it. But I actually have sent people links to your book. then said, read the chapter on first lap. Ron Tite: Oh, well, thank you. Do you know what I do? Cause I have a similar rule in that I to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. Right? Like, hey? We’re all here to learn and share with one another. I get all of that. So IA right away. I will accept you and give you the benefit of the doubt. but if I suspect something in my acceptance I will say so happy to connect. I don’t want to be pitched. Hi! That’s it! Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I read that you said that? Yeah, that’s a smart one. I’ve thought about it. Ron Tite: And then when they come back, you’re like. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: That takes time, Ron. It gives you some kind of satisfaction. Ron Tite: Oh, no, I have a shortcut. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You do. You have a shortcut key. Ron Tite: 100%. That’s that states that line have a quick shortcut. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love it. I love it. Okay. before we get into the rapid fire questions I want to ask you about profanity. Ron Tite: M- Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Talk about it in your book. So far I think you’ve only sworn once I have to decide whether and. Ron Tite: I think so. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: But out, or keep this as a clean episode. Ron Tite: Yep. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I’ve I’ve actually interviewed a linguist who teaches a course at a university on rap lyrics, and he’s he’s an expert on profanity. So and I’m absolutely fascinated by the topic of profanity. To be honest. Ron Tite: Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: What’s your take on it, the impact of it when to do it, when not to do it. Any rules you have for yourself, or things you wish you’d see or not see. Other people do. Ron Tite: Yeah, again, we all have our line, but mine. Is that I in speeches when it is difficult. The rooms are bigger. Right? So you don’t. You don’t know exactly who’s there and you don’t. Wanna you know you don’t want to abandon you don’t everything else. So the line is so certainly I have a no F bomb ruling speeches, that’s for sure. But I will consciously use the word shit. and I will use it in certain places. because I think it actually a. It’s kind like I’m a swearer. I just. This is just who I am. So there’s a little bit of authenticity there, but I also think it. It can make a it can make your point better. It can really raise the seriousness of of your point. and it could be. It can just may, and that’s what they’re there for to persuade, and people to think like you think. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Well, if you’re using it selectively, then it is like punctuation right. Ron Tite: Yeah, it’s a great way to. That’s a great way to describe it. It’s like punctuation, I know. Like, say, Jerry Seinfeld, in in a there’s a great video highly recommend for everybody. It’s called Talk and Funny. It’s Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais Chris Rock and Louis Ck. And they just talk about comedy and the ins and outs of it, and and and the and the swearing, and they they are the other 3 who swear all the time say to Seinfeld. You don’t swear. and he says, No, I I I mean, I have, but I typically don’t, because I don’t see the funny in it, but he had one joke. and he was doing it, and in his natural delivery there was an F bomb in the joke, and then he consciously said, I’m not going to tell the joke with the F. Bomb. and he knew it was just not as funny. It just wasn’t as funny without the punctuation of the F bomb in it. And he was. He was a little sad at that, because he thought that he was always a purist. but it was like, No, there, sometimes it makes you funnier. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Really interesting. Yeah, I just having a conversation on the weekend with someone about profanity. You said that you will avoid the F bomb. But you will say. Shit yep. Ron Tite: I will avoid the F bomb in speeches. 461 Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So 1 one thing that this linguist shared with me that that you might also find really interesting is how over the decades, maybe over the centuries, but over the decades profanity evolves where it may be more. The most profane terms may be focused on religion. Right? Just think about that. Yeah, we focused on excrement and filth. Ron Tite: Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: They may be focused on sex. And now the worst words, at least in the English language, are derogatory terms about racial minorities. Yeah. And he said, Isn’t that a beautiful thing about our society where the words that are the most taboo are the racist words? Yeah, that’s actually a good sign for humanity, and I was like, Oh, I love that point. Ron Tite: Yeah, it’s a great sign of progress. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: It is, yeah. Okay. Can I ask you the 3 rapid fire questions. Now. Ron Tite: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, I actually don’t know what you’re gonna say about these first question. are you an introvert or an extrovert? Ron Tite: I’m I’m usually an extrovert, but I’m an extrovert who needs my introverted time. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay. Ron Tite: Is, that is, that. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: You’re an amber. No, that’s not cheap. You’re an amber vert most. I ask it that way to be provocative. You’re an amber vert which most of us are. we’re right in the middle. Yeah. yeah. Okay. Next question. what are your communication, pet peeves? What do people do that really annoy you? I I. Ron Tite: Bristle at bad grammar. Gotcha like the word scene. Guess who I seen the other day. I just that drives me but otherwise. I don’t love like if you’re talking broader communications like the the the Powerpoint slide with the 800 points on it. or that you probably can’t read this at the back of the room, because there’s 2.5. But anyhow. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Read it to you. Ron Tite: Yeah. that I don’t like. I don’t like leaders who read speeches prepared by their people. especially the reading part, like, there’s the. You know, the Presidential paddles thing is just like that’s a really specific skill that not a lot of people can actually do convincingly. Ron Tite: So what happens is a lot of leaders. They they deliver speeches that are remarks that are prepared by their Comms team or their handlers. And those people edit those remarks and create those remarks in written form. And so they write them to be read. They’re reading them, and they edit them as they read them, because it doesn’t set, but but they’re not created to be spoken. And so it’s like, Yes, I’m reading this, but no audience is going to read this. They’re going to hear this from somebody speaking it. And so this perfect language that you’ve written is beautifully written. make it like dumb it down. We this is nobody speaks like this. People write like this, but they don’t speak like this. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Right. I did a podcasting coaching session at one of my kids in their class because they had to create a podcast episode for for an English assignment. Ron Tite: Nice. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: And I and they were writing their scripts for it, and I said, Here’s a pointer anywhere where you can add a contraction. That’s the way we talk. We don’t say there is, and they are. We say theirs, and there and and the teacher goes. Oh, that’s good! And I said, oh, don’t get me started. That’s just the beginning, right? Anyway. Yeah, we don’t. You’re that’s a great point. We don’t read the same way we hear someone speak or we shouldn’t. Yeah. Ron Tite: And we get that all the time, because we work with on speeches and stuff for for Ceos, and it’s their handlers that come in they go. Well, I want to see before they see it, and they’ll write. Edit it to sound beautiful. And but it’s like no one’s gonna speak like that. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, you know I can. I can imagine where they get there, though, right? Because I’ve had a few executives come to me for what they call media training, and they want to learn how to not go off script. So they are memorizing lines. Ron Tite: Yep. You’ve been. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Even for interviews. Note to all the listeners. Yeah. Ron Tite: You know the trick I use for that. Yeah, you know. But you know the trick that I use for that is a conscious repeat of words like, Yeah, and I’ll get this a lot where that the handlers will say, like, we’ve used this word too many times in this kind of like. No, we consciously did that. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Oh, it’s. Ron Tite: It’s like this, change is difficult. Change is hard. Change is dynamic changes moving forward, because that’s how we kind of talk. But they’ll want to sub in different words for change. And like you’re being way too conscious about it like we wouldn’t speak like that. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: I love that Ron Ron. That’s back to the original point of being consistent in what you’re thinking, what you’re doing, what you’re saying, and then hitting your audience over the head with the same message. Because. you know, I I tell people when we’re creating the narrative for their personal brand, you have to say it in your self introduction. You have to say it again in your next self introduction. You need to remind people when you see them. And the thing is. it’s not repetitive to them, because it’s not all about you. It’s it’s actually all about them, right. Okay. Third, in this, not so rapid rapid fire. Ron Tite: Question. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Is is there a podcast or a book that you find yourself recommending lately. Ron Tite: Lately, I mean I I someone just asked me this like about business books, and I the example I gave. It’s a old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old one. but it it holds a special place in my heart, because it was the first time I read a business. I think I was 14 or 15, and I wasn’t a business guy. You know. I was not like I was. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: The same age. Ron. I’m really curious what it is. Ron Tite: I’m 53. Oh, oh, so the book! What’s the book? So the book was. You may have read this. Given your background. It’s what they don’t teach you at Harvard Business School. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Oh, yeah, of course. Ron Tite: By Mark Mccormick and the line that got me in that book, and at first tweaked my interest in branding and marketing, and business was the very simple line that Arnold Palmer made more money in his first year of retirement than he ever made playing. And I was like, how is that possible? How? There’s no way? This guy made more money in retirement than he made the one of the best golfers in the world, and it was because of partnership deals. And it was the Arna Palmer brand that that’s what did it. And all those things still hold up. They all hold up. Yeah, mark Mccormick has passed away, and that book still, to me it holds up. Yeah. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Well, you know. There, I know I talked to a lot of marketers, and they all talk about how originally it was about strategy. So back to your back, to your whole motivation for writing the book. They were talking about strategy and and identifying consumer insights. And now it’s all about data. And I’m like, well. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: and then, what do you do with the data? Or how do you read the data based on the strategy and the insights? Right? Ron Tite: Yeah, the data. It’s just there’s so much now. And we’re already seeing it with AI where they’re just trying to people just trying to jump the queue to the next thing, like, what’s the next thing? Okay, we’re gonna start using AI, and we went in saying, Yes, of course, of course, of course, of course, you should be using AI. But how about we use it to make us smarter like? Let’s. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Whoo! Ron Tite: May use it to make us smarter. and but people are jumping right to how do we crank out? How we just turn to AI and say, Write my book for me. It’s like, that’s maybe eventually, sure. But let’s let’s take step one like, how do we use it to make us a little bit more efficient. How do we use it to make us smarter, so that the insights are better. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah. Ron Tite: Not jumping the queue to just cranking out stuff. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Yeah, yeah. Very well, put Ron. I have really enjoyed this conversation. Is there anything else you want to say to the talk about talk listeners about improving their communication skills, or what they’re thinking, or what they’re doing, or what they’re saying. Ron Tite: No, no, I mean this has been great. I just can’t think of anything else that other than thanks for investing the time and listening. Andrea Wojnicki – TalkAboutTalk: Okay, thank you very much. Ron. Ron Tite: Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Ron for so generously, sharing his at time and insights with us. If you watched our interview on youtube, you probably noticed that I was smiling the whole time. Ron definitely has a joie de vivre and I appreciate his clever sense of humor.  if you were watching on YouTube you probably also you may have also noticed that Ron is wearing a gingham dress shirt. he shared with me at the beginning when we first logged into the zoom call that he frequently wears gingham. be it blue, gray, pink, purple, gingham is part of his brand. just like turquoise is part of my brand. Before I get into sharing with you the three learnings that I hope you’ll take away from this conversation, I want to acknowledge that perhaps one of the most useful points from this conversation is Ron’s suggestion on how to respond to potential pitch slappers. you know when you’re on LinkedIn and the person who’s requesting a connection has their pitch in their headline? the one who says, “I’ll help you accelerate your sales funnel” or gain a million followers or whatever. when those people reach out to connect, Ron suggests that you accept the connection with a comment: “happy to connect, not to be pitched.” beautiful! Now as promised, I’m going to share with you three learnings that I hope you’ll take away from this conversation.   the first point I want to reinforce is the title of Ron’s book. the sequence he recommends you can use as a brand manager, creating the brand strategy for your product or service. first you think. then you do. then you say. there’s no need to confuse or overcomplicate things with a voluminous brand strategy document.  Ron is also purposeful and disciplined about the sequence. many people mistakenly focus first on the saying or the communicating. whether you’re managing a product brand, a service brand or even a personal brand, Always start with the thinking. The saying is the last step. For those of you who have taken any of my personal branding workshops or boot camps, you’ll you might recognize this sequence. I’m also very disciplined and strategic about first doing the creating or the articulating and spending most of your time here. then moving on to the communicating step. Ron and I share this belief of garbage in garbage out, quality in quality out. if you spend most of your time in the first step of thinking or creating, the saying or communicating will be a lot easier. The second point I want to reinforce is a Ron’s line from his book. it’s this quote: “Its not a bug, it’s a feature.” So many of us waste our time trying to hide or change things about ourselves that we see as weaknesses or things that are holding us back. Ron shared the story of the rising executive from the Deep South who was sent to leadership Training. this executive quickly realized that the objective of the training was to erase his Deep South accent. he refused. it’s not a bug it’s a feature. Whether it’s your accent, or your sense of humor, whether it’s your leadership style, or your or a personality trait. of course we need to make sure we these things arent standing in our way of being a productive leader. but there’s often an opportunity to create a narrative around that unique trait and to embrace it as part of your valuable, unique personal brand! The third point I want to reinforce  is also a line from Ron’s book: “Self-awareness is the purest form of honesty. And honesty is the purest form of authenticity.”  Ron carefully distinguishes between these terms: SELF-AWRANESS and it’s relationship with HONESTY and how HONESTY relates to AUTHENTICITY, and then in our conversation we also talked about the distinction between AUTHENTICITY and TRANSPARENCY. We should be careful with using each of these terms. Transparency doesn’t mean you’re sharing every truth about yourself with every person that you meet. I love Ron’s metaphor of choosing what to wear when you go on a date. if the person you’re meeting is an investment banker, chances are you’re going to dress differently than if they’re a tree hugger. sure these are extreme examples, but you get the idea. When I’m coaching folks on their personal brands and how to show up as your authentic self, I remind people that we are all complicated, sophisticated smart humans, with multiple roles that we play in our life. we can’t share everything with everyone all the time. so we filter what parts of our personal identity we share, depending on the person and depending on the context. as Ron says, you can choose which outfit from your closet to wear, depending on the person and depending on the context. Alright. That’s it. That’s everything for this episode. Thanks again to Ron Tite for sharing his time and insights with us. If you havent already read his book, THINK, DO, SAY,I certainly recommend that you do! there’s a link to it in the shownotes. And I cant wait to read his new book, “The Purose of Purpose,” coming out later this year. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will refer it to one of your friends, and I also hope you’ll leave a review on Apple, Spotify or YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for listening. Talk soon. The post Think, Do, Say with Ron Tite (ep.159) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Credibility in the workplace starts with confidence. Andrea shares two mindsets and five tactics to help build your confidence and credibility. Her challenge to you is to identify a few suggestions from this list that will help you establish credibility. CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Recently, I was hired by a CEO to coach one of his middle managers. The CEO told me that this manager was an emerging leader. He was showing signs of being ready for promotion, but he really needed to demonstrate credibility and leadership.   Last week when we were in our third 1:1 coaching session, this young emerging leader admitted to me that he often feels imposter syndrome, and he could use a confidence boost. He and I decided to create a list of strategies for him to improve his confidence and credibility. His list included many many mindsets, frameworks, and tactics that we went through one by one. After our coaching session, I thought: gosh this would be a great list to share with the talk about talk listeners! so what I’ve done is I’ve taken the seven of the strategies on this list and I’m gonna share them with you now. These are the seven strategies that I personally use and that seem to get the most traction with my clients. This list includes two mindsets and five tactics. My challenge to you is to identify a couple of the things on this list that you can use to help you boost your confidence and your credibility. Are you ready?   Welcome to Talk about Talk Podcast Episode #156 Five ways to reinforce your Professional identity. In case we haven’t met, my name is Doctor Andrea. Wojnicki please just call me. I’m your executive communication. I coach and business executives like you to improve their communication skills so you can communicate with confidence and clarity. Credibility. And then you can create impact, ultimately achieving your career goals. Sound good? If you want to learn more, check out talk about talk.com. I’ve got lots and lots of resources for you there. I’ve got one-on-one coaching, bootcamps, online courses, information about corporate workshops, the archive of this bi weekly podcast, and when you’re there, I really hope to sign up for my email newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication program from me every two weeks. Sound good?    OK let me start with a quick story about my own confidence or lack there of. Some of you may have heard this story before. Early in my career when I was working in brand management at Kraft foods, I was asked to speak at a national sales conference. This was a great honour for me. As you can imagine, I prepared myself thoroughly. When the day finally came, I stepped out on stage… And I completely lost it. My face turned red. My hands turned clammy. I had sweaty armpits. And I was shaking. It was a lovely site. Let me tell you. It was all I could do to walk across the stage grasp onto the podium and read my presentation. Word for Word from my written notes. Pathetic. When I was done, I ran off stage and my boss Sandra asked Me Andrea are you OK? No I’m definitely not. I went to a quiet place and collected my thoughts. First of all, this can never ever happen again. So what am I gonna do? Two things. One I’m going to volunteer every opportunity I have to do public speaking. I must get over this! Too. I’m gonna start collecting tips or hacks that work for other people and that might work for me to help me boost my confidence.   Starting on that day I start I created a mental list of different mindsets and tactics that might help me use my own confidence and now as a communication coach I continue to add to this list and share this list with my clients.   Now I’m gonna share with you seven of these tips. These are strategies that I use myself and also the things that I see working for my clients. Two of the seven tips are mindsets. The other five are more tactical in nature. Again, my challenge to you is to identify a couple of the things maybe two specific strategies from this list of seven that can help you boost your confidence and your credibility.   Here we go.   The first strategy is to adopt a growth mindset. I know what you’re thinking. Andrea, a growth mindset is when I reframe mistakes and failures as learning opportunities. That’s great. But it’s not gonna cut it when I’m standing in front of the room giving a big important presentation and I fail. OK, fair enough, adopting a growth mindset when you feel nervous and maybe your presentation is failing, it might help your psychological well-being in the long run, but it’s not gonna help your career in the short term is it? I get it. I have a different way of thinking about a growth mindset when it comes to conquering our confidence issues. It’s about focussing on your genuine curiosity, your growth, your learning mindset. Recently, I’ve been doing a lot of Q&A or question and answer sessions – live. I never know what questions people are gonna ask me and sometimes I get a little nervous. So do you know what I do? I recite my growth mindset mantra. It goes like this: “I know what I know and I’m keen to learn more.” There are really two parts of this. I know what I know. This is me reminding myself of my expertise. (More on that in a minute.) the second part is: “I’m keen to learn more.“ Here, I’m reminding myself of my genuine growth mindset, my focus on learning and growing, and my curiosity. When you focus on your curiosity and your desire to learn, it’s almost like no one can catch you. Imagine someone asked you a question that you are in no-way qualified to answer. If you have a growth mindset, you could say: wow that’s a fascinating question! I don’t even know where to begin, but let me tell you what I do know and then you can share with them – based on your expertise, based on your experience, based on your background, what you do know, and then you could say: “I’m gonna do some research, or I’m gonna talk to someone else and get an answer ,and I’ll get right back to you. Thank you.”   This is just one example of how you can use a growth mindset when you’re feeling nervous. I encourage you whenever you’re feeling a lack of confidence to focus on your growth mindset. Consciously consider your desire to learn and your curiosity. This can take a lot of pressure off of knowing everything and having the right answer for every single question. So that’s the first strategy. Adopting a growth mindset. The second strategy is also mindset related. It’s focussing on your personal brand. What I mean here is focussing on your unique strengths and passions. Often when we’re feeling nervous, it’s because we have an implicit belief that others are going to expect us to know everything. Focussing on your personal brand or your unique strengths can also take the pressure off here. It’s not that you’re good at everything, and it’s not that you know everything, but you do know what your strengths are. When I coach ambitious executives on identifying and articulating their personal brand, we come up with a list of several themes – they could be personality traits, they could be their leader ship style, they could be their industry or their disciplinary expertise, this is where they have expertise and passion. After we create this page listing their personal branding themes, I encourage folks to print it off or create a Screenshot and then every time they’re going in to lead an important meeting, to make an important presentation, or maybe even to go into a job interview, make this the last page that you look at , before you go into the room or before you go out on stage. Again, it’s not that you’re good at EVERYTHING! but the items on this page are the things that you know are your unique strengths. This can’t help but elevate or boost your confidence. I remember when I was in a board meeting many many years ago and the conversation got sidetracked into investments that the firm was making. I remember looking across the board room table at a bunch of guys talking about the pros and cons of various investment strategies and thinking why am I here? Am I an imposter? Do I belong here? I have 3 degrees in business and sure I can talk about a balance sheet or an income statement. This is getting, but this is out of my league. Then I reminded m myself of the reason why I was brought onto this board. It was for my branding and strategy expertise. So when there was a lull in the conversation, I raised my hand, and I said, based on our strategic priorities, my suggestion is that the investment strategy should integrate with these priorities… I remember consciously noticing everyone’s chair turning towards me and a bunch of heads, nodding. With that one sentence, I got the meeting back on track, and I also reinforced my professional identity as the branding and strategy expert in the room.   The next time you feel like an imposter, remind yourself of your personal brand and specifically your unique strengths. This can’t help but boost your confidence. And your credibility! So those are the first two strategies both of them are mindsets. The first one is adopt a growth mindset, and the second mindset is to focus on your personal brand. Focus on your unique strengths. The third strategy is much more tactical. It’s breathing. You’ve probably heard this a million times. When you feel that shot of adrenaline, just take a slow deep breath. I have a slightly different take on this, based on what I’ve been reading lately. It’s this: slow your exhale. Very often when we focus on our breathing, we focus on our inhale. Instead, think about slowing your exhale. Here’s the insight. When you slow your exhale, your brain thinks: wait! she’s not gasping for air. Everything must be OK. and then it is ok. Recently, when I’ve mentioned this to a few of my clients, we also talked about how there’s like a positive placebo effect here. If you believe it’s true, by slowing our exhale, we’ll reduce our stress, then yes the research shows that is what happens, but also because your brain believes it, it amplifies the effect. So that’s the third strategy. Slow your breathing, specifically your exhale. The fourth strategy is something that seems to get a lot of traction with people. Like immediately when I tell it to them, I can see on their face that this is something that they’re going to try, and then they tell me it does work. And I can tell you personally, that I do this and it definitely works for me. It’s this: frame your nerves as a positive. Put another way, when you feel that shot of adrenaline, when you feel the butterflies, when you feel your body temperature spiking, and your face turning red, consciously say to yourself: “yes! That adrenaline I’m fuelling me up to perform!”   A while ago, when I was doing some reading on imposter syndrome, research paper after research paper highlighted that almost everybody experiences, imposter syndrome, men women, young old, successful, and unsuccessful. It’s almost everybody. And almost everybody feels nervous. In fact, the people that DONT feel imposter syndrome, the people who never feel nervous, They’re are the ones that end up showing up FLAT when they’re on stage. You may have seen these folks in the past. Maybe you’re at a conference and there’s a panel of four or five people sitting on barstools on stage and they’re asking him questions.  Inevitably, one of them will come across as far too casual or aloof. This might be the person who is not feeling any adrenaline whatsoever. So the next time you feel that shot of adrenaline remind yourself that that that you’re now fuelled up and ready to perform. On to the fifth strategy.  We’ve covered four strategies so far: the first was adopting a growth mindset. The second is focussing on your personal brand or your unique strengths. The third is breathing – slow your exhale, and the fourth is reframing your nerves as a positive. This is the fuel that you need to perform.  The fifth strategy for boosting your confidence is emulation. As in copying. Here’s the exercise. Ask yourself: whose confidence do you admire? It could be a senior leader in your firm or maybe a celebrity CEO or perhaps it’s even a friend or family member. When you feel your nerves, ask yourself, how would this person respond? How would this person act? And then, simply act like them. I had an experience many many years ago that I’ve shared a couple times that’s relevant here. I was a relatively new faculty member at the University of Toronto and they asked me to give a lecture to the first year marketing students at convocation hall. This is an auditorium that seats thousands. I was honoured to do this lecture, and let me tell you – once again, I was prepared. When the day finally came, I dressed in my favourite pantsuit and my favourite heels. They asked me to arrive half an hour early so that they could get the AV set up. Like I said, this was a huge auditorium. When I walked in, the lights were all turned off, except there was a spotlight on the stage. The AV guy hooked up my headset and microphone and asked me to walk out on stage to test the audio and my slides. I remember feeling the heat of the spotlight on me, and thinking… my God I feel like a rockstar!  I kind of feel like Madonna! So I when the lecture finally started, I imagined that I was Madonna with all of her charisma and confidence. I copied Madonna’s confidence. When the lecture was over, I remember genuinely feeling like a rockstar. The young students got up out of their chairs, and many of them rushed the stage to talk to me. When do you have office hours? Are you gonna keep teaching this course? What other courses do you teach?   Thank you Madonna. Here’s the bonus part of the story. Now when I look back at the many many lectures, workshops and keynotes that I’ve led, this is one of the public speaking experiences that really stands out in terms of my confidence and connection with the students to the audience. So whenever I’m feeling a lack of confidence, sure I can act like Madonna, but I can also emulate exactly how I felt when I was on stage at convocation hall.   So here’s the question for you. When did YOU knock it out of the park when you were on stage? Maybe it was when you were in a job interview or perhaps it was when you were leading a meeting, or giving an important presentation? Ask yourself: what was my mindset for that presentation or what tactics worked? And then in the future, whenever you feel that shot of adrenaline, you can emulate or copy yourself from that experience. So that’s the fifth strategy: emulate or copy someone else’s or your own confidence from a successful presentation that you made. Onto the sixth strategy: positive self talk.  The next time you’re feeling nervous, or a lack of confidence, I encourage you to be conscious of your selftalk. What are you saying to yourself in your head? Instead of ruminating and focussing on your anxiety, give yourself a positive peptalk. How would a supportive friend speak to you if you were experiencing anxiety?  I asked a friend of mine, Angie, to provide me with a peptalk once before I went out on stage with some improv actors. When the evening finally came, and there I was on stage, again, with the spotlight on my face, and my body temperature rising. I remember Angie’s words coming back to my brain. Andrea, you got this! andrea there’s a reason that they asked you and not someone else to do this. you’re gonna knock it out of the park.   This, by the way, is exactly how we should be talking to ourselves. Research conducted by Professor Ethan Kross at the University of Michigan highlights how speaking to ourselves in second person is most effective in terms of halting negative rumination. Here’s how that would sound if I was talking to myself. I would say, “Andrea you got this!” Try it for yourself.  Say your name and use the word you. You can imagine the research that they did to come to this conclusion about using second person. They probably had people writing or speaking out loud to themselves in first person. “I got this.” And others in second person “you got this!” The research shows that second person is most effective. This is another example where there may also be a positive placebo. Ever since I learned about this research insight, I think it’s become particularly effective for me because I read the research and I understand how it works.  The next time you’re feeling nervous, and you could use a confidence, boost, consciously say to yourself, your name, you, and give yourself a peptalk. Andrea, you got this. It works, I promise! So that’s the six strategy. On to the seventh and last strategy and it’s this focus: on your main point. What exactly does this mean? Well if you’re in the middle of a speech and you feel your nerves getting out of control, maybe you even forget what you’re talking about, go back and focus on your main point. Or if you’re in a meeting like I mentioned, and you’re feeling like you’re an imposter, go back to the main objective of the meeting, or maybe the main strategy of the organization. There are really two benefits of this strategy. First, in most instances, focussing on the main point, or the main objective, or the main strategy is almost always a good thing, and other people will appreciate it. Second, reminding yourself of the main point will refocus your thoughts, away from negative rumination, and toward something relevant for that context. This is something that I share with my clients who are preparing for a big formal speech. If all else fails return to your main point. It doesn’t have to be a formal speech. This insight also works in meetings, and even one on one conversations.   And that’s it! These are my top seven ways to boost your confidence and your credibility. Do you remember what they were? Don’t worry, I’m gonna review them for you now I hate quizzes too! As I’m reviewing these, I encourage you to think about which one or two you think will help you get the most traction for you to boost your confidence and credibility.   The first two were mindsets: the first was adopting a growth mindset. Focus on your genuine curiosity and desire to learn. It’s really hard to fail when you’re learning isn’t it? The second is focussing on your personal brand or your unique strengths. It’s not that you’re great at everything, but when you’ve taken the time to list your expertise and your strengths, this is got to boost your confidence. The third is breathing – slow your exhale. It’s easy and it works. The fourth is reframing your nerves as a positive. That shot of adrenaline you’re experiencing is the fuel that you need to perform. The fifth strategy for boosting your confidence is copying. Copying someone else’s confidence whom you admire, or maybe copying the confidence that you experienced in the past when you were successful. The sixth strategy to boost your confidence and credibility is positive self talk. Provide yourself with a mental peptalk in second person, the way, a supportive friend with would would talk to you. And the seventh and last strategy is to focus on your main point. If you’re standing on stage and lose your place, restate your main point. If you’re in a meeting and things are going off track bring people back to the main point on the agenda. Other people will appreciate it, and it will refocus your thoughts away from negative rumination towards what matters.   Now again, here’s your challenge. Identify which identify a couple of these seven strategies that you think will work best for you. Try them out for a week a few weeks and see if you feel a boost in your confidence and your credibility. Let me know how it goes!   If  you enjoyed this podcast episode, I do hope you’ll share with your friends who could also benefit from a boost to their confidence and credibility. You could also leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it.   Don’t forget to signup for my free communication coaching newsletter on the talkabouttalk.com website.    Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon!     The post 7 Ways to Boost Your Confidence & Your Credibility (ep. 158) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

  How can you become your best possible self? Andrea interviews The Possible Self author, Professor Maya Djikic. Learn two false assumptions that will change how you tackle self-improvement, plus, the “Wheel of Self” model that will help you make real change and achieve your goals.   MAJA DJIKIC RESOURCES BOOK: “The Possible Self – A Leader’s Guide to Personal Development” by Professor Maja Djikic – https://amzn.to/4aMBXMJ LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/majaDjikic/ Faculty Page – https://discover.research.utoronto.ca/11970-maja-Djikic Maja’s Recommendation: Book – “The Body Keeps the Score“ by Bessel van der Kolk MD CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT At Talk About Talk, we spent a lot of time thinking – and talking – about our strengths and our passions. Particularly when it comes to our respective personal brands. We focus on our strengths and our passions, because these are the things that we want to reinforce. But what about our development areas? Or “”areas of opportunity””? Our – dare I say it – our weaknesses? Recently I had the privilege of being invited to a book talk at the University of Toronto where Professor Maja Djikic spoke about her new book, called the possible self – a leaders guide to self development. This is a book focused on how to overcome your weaknesses. It was standing room only, and notably, a significant proportion of the audience was comprised of her faithful and loyal students from various programs at the Rotman school of management at the University of Toronto. Just a few minutes into professor Djikic talk, I decided I need to interview her for a Talk About Talk podcast episode. And here we are. In this episode, you’re going to learn, about 2 widely-held false assumptions that many of us hold when it comes to self improvement. You’ll learn what the research tells us, and what Professor Djikic recommends we do instead of relying on these false assumptions. Here’s a hint: she calls it the wheel of self. Welcome to Talk about Talk podcast episode #157 “Self-Improvement & The Possible Self with Professor Maja Djikic”. In this episode, you’re gonna learn how to step it up in terms of your self improvement efforts. In case we haven’t met, my name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki please just call me Andrea. I’m your executive communication coach. I coach executives like you to improve your communication skills so you can communicate with confidence and clarity, establish credibility, and ultimately achieve your career goals. Sound good? If you want to learn more, check out the website, talkabouttalk.com. There are lots and lots of resources for you there. There’s one-on-one coaching, boot camps, online courses, information about corporate workshops… I recognize that people learn in different ways. Are you an auditory learner? You’ll also find the archive of this bi-weekly podcast. And while you’re on the website, I really hope to sign up for my bi-weekly email newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me in your email inbox, plus some behind-the-scenes insights, information about the most recent podcast episodes, and upcoming programs. So please sign up for that newsletter. Ok, let’s get into this. I’m sure you want to hear from Maja. Here’s how this episode is going to go. After I interview professor Djikic, we’ll get right into the interview. Then at the end I’m going to summarize with the three learnings that I want to reinforce based on a conversation. Three things that I hope you’ll take away and that I hope will help you in your quest for self improvement. Now, let me introduce Maja. Maja Djikic, Ph.D. is a personality psychologist specializing in adult development. She is an Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior and HR Management, the Executive Director of the Self-Development Laboratory, and the Academic Director of the Rotman Executive Coaching Certificate program at the Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto. Her research has been featured in over 50 media outlets (including The New York Times, Salon, Slate, Scientific American Mind), in 15 countries. Thinkers50 has selected Maja as one of 30 thinkers around  the world whose ideas have the potential to shape the future of organizations. Her first book, The Possible Self: A Leader’s Guide to Personal Development, was published in March 2024 by Berrett-Koehler Publishers.  Now, here is Maja. And if you’re watching us on YouTube, this interview was recorded in her office at the University of Toronto Rotman School of Management.   INTERVIEW AW  00:05 Thank you so much, Maya for joining us here today to talk about your book, the possible self.   00:31 My pleasure, thanks for having me. AW  00:34 So as I was telling you, I really enjoyed your book launch talk, and I was sitting amongst many of your adoring fans, your adoring students. And it was, it was really a moment that that was very inspiring, I would say. And I immediately went home and asked if I could interview for this. So I’m really excited to be here. And I wanted to start by talking about the foundation of your book, which is really about correcting to false assumptions, as far as I understand, right, so one of them is that we are stable and static or fixed. And the second false assumption is that we can change through sheer willpower. So I thought these two assumptions would be a great place to start.   01:20 Absolutely, I think this idea that personality is stable, I think we, the reason why we have it is because when we’re children, and young people eat, develop, and grow, and so on, and I think what happens to us then we end up in a in a life, if you will, of an adult. And that life is mostly focused on holding, you know, all the pieces of the puzzle, you know, all the balls in the air at the same time, perhaps you’re a family or you have a particular job. And oddly enough, everything in our environment is meant to protect the stability of that life. On the other hand, and so we think that we’re stable, we will look at the stability of our life, we don’t notice that slowly, we get a little bit more stagnating or that we don’t feel as excited about life. But we noticed that oh, well, I’ve been doing this for 15. This is just who I am. I’m the kind of person who comes home and turns on TV, or I’m the kind of person who always goes out after work for drink, or, and so we start having these inner dialogue about who we are. And because this person, I think of it as a box that we are, because that’s the box that everybody else expects you to be. We don’t bother challenging whether or not we are this we don’t veer out because it’s kind of dangerous to explore outside of the box internally, you can destabilize relationships. You can even destabilize yourself by saying, Oh, wow, maybe I’m not an introvert or maybe I’m not an extrovert. So I think this is one thing, right? And unfortunately, even scientists up to, you know, early 2000s, were telling us, oh, no, you know, you’re all done by the time you’re 20 or even by the time you’re seven if you’re a psychoanalyst. Right. Right. So that’s one assumption that I think has been very, very destructive for us as adults. And doesn’t reflect how we grow. You No, all the way. Oh, until our very   AW  03:20 last. Yeah, so I was thinking of it in the context of of like Carol Dweck, fixed and growth mindset. It’s a little bit related to that, but it’s different also, right because she’s talking about maybe more aptitudes right or learning new skills as opposed to having an aptitude like a strength or a weakness or a propensity to act in a certain way like for example based on the you know, the five personality types and types that we have right so   03:45 countback is talking about our inner beliefs about whether some skill is movable right not so as your intelligence movable is any skill that you have movable? Yeah. Which skill is a little bit different than broadly who we are, right? Okay. And so, what we’re talking is about broad ideas like, Who is this person I am and by the time you put a sentence, I am X together, you have already moved on beyond it. So, any sentence that we can put together that is I am x is not correct. So, we need to know that and instead of identifying with I am x, it can be I am becoming or I am moving in this direction. Or this is who I was, you know, in my 20s I was an extrovert and then in my 30s I was an introvert and then in the 40s I discovered that’s a much more realistic and accurate story about our lives than I am and then put in a trade.   AW  04:51 Oh, my goodness, my brain is exploding right now. As you can tell by the look in my eyes. Like wow, okay. So it is about a narrative and being open minded. Right? Yes, not being fixed to use those words, not   05:07 thinking any story you tell about yourself as you, it’s almost like, Okay, I’m telling you my story. I know it’s a story, I’ve put it together from some old pieces of evidence. And it’s, it can be a useful story because people ask you who tell me about yourself all the time. But notice how you tell a different story when somebody is interviewing you for a job. And when somebody’s sitting with you on a date, you wouldn’t tell the same story because you implicitly understand what they’re asking you something different. So you put together out of their question, you put together a little story of yourself and offer to them, it’s okay, do you think it’s appropriate for the situation? But that’s not your totality? Our story is not who we are. AW  05:48 So you said, I think of us as a box. Is that box constantly evolving? We   05:54 are not a box, I think most people think of them size as a box. It’s almost a box, they construct in their own mind, okay, to just feel a place of safety, versus we’re actually never like a rolling ball. We’re just like, oh, cool, we were rolling along and, you know, changing and picking different things along the way. But we’re not, you know, and we’re not something that you can point a finger to, it’s like, I am always this, right, that would be unnatural, given that we are live beings that are continually growing and developing.   AW  06:30 So when I’m coaching executives on their personal brand, or their professional identity, I introduced them to a bunch of I call them strategic principles of personal branding that are related to this exercise. And the third one is your personal brand. Not only can but should evolve. And this is actually the one where people are like, well, they’ll say to me, Andrew, I need some help. I think my personal brand needs to change. I’m like, Hey, stop. First of all, good. Yeah. Yes.   07:00 So here’s an interesting thing, I think, what you’re called personal brand, which is I in my kind of filters in my mind, it’s basically stories we tell to our employees, or colleagues or people in our work life about our what is the value that we contribute potentially, to, to their workplaces? Yeah. So that story needs to evolve, not just because we evolve, but also because the other needs of these professional spaces and workplaces evolve. So in a sense, I imagine when you are constructing a personal brand, it’s always a combination of I have these skills, and these abilities and this hunger for learning or whatever other things you think you have that will be useful. And this is how it fits in the things that you need. Right? And so that low match will always be I imagined changing. Yes. Yeah. And not just because we change, but also because their needs change. Their   AW  07:57 needs change. It also depends on the context and the people with whom you’re communicating. And the world’s changing, technology is changing. Plus, we’re getting older, our families are changing, right? This is what i   08:06 Everything is always changing. Okay. Okay.   AW  08:09 So what about the second false assumption about us achieving maybe improvement, or personal development through willpower?   08:20 I think, unfortunately, it is a leftover of this very old fashioned idea that anything that’s worthwhile to achieve has to hurt. So it has to hurt it has to feel. And people say, Well, I, you know, they say, Oh, I’m at work, and I’m not enjoying and then it’s like, well, it’s work, what do you expect? And I think there’s something about the way that we look at adult life and work that it’s, it’s supposed to be paying, you’re supposed to force yourself to go to it. And oddly enough, we ascribe we ascribe value like a very high value in terms of integrity, we say, here’s the kind of person who even though you hate your job, and you just you know, you go there anyway, and you make yourself and you do it, and you go home and and tomorrow, again, you do the same thing, because this is just the kind of person you are. So we we tend to somehow glorify stability, like, like just not change in being fixed in place. And we call it integrity. But really, integrity is something very different. So it’s not it doesn’t require integrity, to refuse to change.   AW  09:31 So I’ve had conversation with some people about this and I say be careful you’re not celebrate celebrating being a martyr. Yes. Right. Yes. That’s I thought you were gonna say that I was   09:42 waiting for it. It’s absolutely because just because we’re suffering doesn’t mean that we are growing and developing in the direction that of our potential. I think when it comes to martyrdom, I think some people you know, they look at the book and the focus that I have on under Standing your wants and fulfilling them and say, well, that’s a very selfish North American. That’s not how we live. And what would people feel, you know, if they would they feel to understand is at the very core of our wants are not just individual, they’re also social ones. It’s a want to be together to build something interesting together to have relationship. Yeah, all different kinds of relationships, to be in communities to build extraordinary achievements in large groups, right? You know, buildings in crow cathedral, like, that’s a lot of people working towards the same aim. Right? Right. So we have very social ones. But the problem is that it’s if you’re very unclear, if you think that your wants don’t count for anything, don’t lead you anywhere that they’re just not so good. You’re gonna give yourself your life over to other people’s wants. And when you do that, they’re going to tell you what you should want, when should you want it, what kind of life you should lead. And the if you let yourself be led by that what will happen to you is that people will be clapping, and saying, Oh, wow, incredible. You’ve just given your life to x. You did not, for one moment, ask yourself what you want, right? But inside of you, there was a potential that potential that was left unfulfilled is going to cry for you. Because   AW  11:19 Oh, well, you’re going to be quoted on that.   11:23 Because it’s there waiting for you. We are all have our unique set of things. It’s like we’re all unique pieces of puzzle and the world needs our uniqueness. It doesn’t need a slotted piece that is always the square always a peg, it needs our unique pieces. So when we don’t become these pieces, we deprive the world of what we could have done it. You’re really   AW  11:49 speaking my language here. You’re reminding me of something, I heard a quote. It was in a Tim Ferriss podcast recently, he was interviewing a successful tech entrepreneur, who made this quick comment, and I rewound it, and I listened to it again. And I was like, wow, he is bang on, he said something like, we’re all very self absorbed. And if you think about it, we kind of have to be because we need to survive. We’re protecting ourselves. We’re thinking about ourselves, we’re maybe even selfish. And he said, How ironic is it then? That we really don’t know ourselves? Yeah, right. That’s   12:28 very good. Because what he’s pointing out is that we’re actually not self absorbed, because we don’t understand we are, we’re absorbed, how about that we’re absorbed in a cultural dynamic off, whatever it is, you have to make money, you have to be successful, you have to look like this. You have to have this button. So we’re not actually self absorbed. We’re just absorbed by random movement, right?   AW  12:51 If we’re reacting to that stimulus, as opposed to starting with ourselves. That’s right. Wow. Okay. So at your book talk, I was the one that actually asked the question of comparing your insight about overcoming or the the false assumption that we change through willpower and comparing that to James clears notion of atomic habits. Can you explain to the listener vote that   13:22 a fantastic question, even at a talk I said, it was fantastic question is too bad, I didn’t have a bit more time to talk about it. So here’s the I mean, who am I to disagree with somebody was selling millions and millions of books. But here’s something in your own experience, I’m sure most people have tried to force themselves into another way of being. And if you have something, if you have a developmental wheel that is moving naturally, let’s say you’re introducing a new hobby, and you’re like, Oh, I’m interested in that, then the habit route can work. Because basically just provides a bit of a direction, a little bit of a nudge, and the whole wheel is moving, your motivation, your emotion, everything is moving in one direction, right. But if you have all parts of the wheel pushing you the other way, and you’re trying to use the willpower to push yourself into some, you know, you want to change a food habit, or you want to exercise that’s the obvious one is very obvious ones. And that is not something a habit can do. Right, right. That’s not the route. Why because something that’s stopping you from it is deep, and you can forcing yourself means like pushing one part of the wheel one way, while the rest of it is going the other way. You’re basically breaking yourself. And, of course, eventually you will fail because you’re breaking yourself. You’ll run out of willpower.   AW  14:45 This relates to cognitive dissonance, too, right? Like I am all these things and I’m trying to be I’m all I’m all xx xx and now I’m trying to be y. Yes,   14:52 right. I’m forced. It’s not that naturally I’m forcing myself. It is not about not having a cookie you want It’s about not wanting a cookie. And what true transformation self transformation does, when you move or parts of the week, it makes you not want a cookie, it makes you want to move your body, not try to move your body force yourself to move your body.   AW  15:16 Can you illustrate an example maybe of how James clear might attack this, so imagine you or I, or whoever was seeking to lose weight or lower their blood sugar, whatever, right for their doctor told them to and they said, Okay, I’m committed to   15:34 1%. So I would say, let’s cut down your sugar level by one spoon for Wolf, whatever it is that you put in a cup of coffee, and then so that’s what you would do, if you would just it would be a little bit and that, you know, after, it would be basically incremental. But at every step, every that incremental 1% Step, you’re fighting yourself. And even when you finish, the idea here is that overall, when you get there, then you’re going to stabilize yourself into that habit. And that you won’t want that sugar anymore. But as millions of you know, you will still want it. Right? Right. And so you can get yourself, you know, I completely understand this kind of incremental mindset, it’s, what you’re doing is leaving yourself behind, you’re forcing this behavior, that’s supposed to be good, but you’re not taking the rest of the self along. And the reason for it is that the rest of the self is saying, no, no, no, no, no, and it has its reasons. And unless you address these reasons, you that you will always be fighting you’re so this   AW  16:42 is the right time for us to introduce the wheel of possible self right? Can you so maybe using the same example for how would the wheel of self help someone who had similar instructions from their doctor and desire to make a change? So   16:55 for example, you take something like, you’re, you’re diabetic, and you need to cut down the sugar. And so you start so the wheel of self has five parts. So it basically says that you’re not just behavior, also your motivations, your emotions, your thoughts and your history of neural pathways. Okay, so now, you know, here’s the behavior that you want change. But you started with the motivation. And so that, is that, okay, you have you want sugar. But the question is, what do you want in sugar? We don’t just want sugar, we want something in it. So what is it for us? Is it a sense of comfort? Is it a sense of warmth? Is it a sense of nostalgia? Sometimes people tell me when I have a coffee, nice sweet coffee with milk, it just gives me that feeling of peace. So see, we want something that’s not as simple as I just want a sugar, we’re looking for something. This is why you let’s say that you don’t put that sugar. So the emotion that’s going to come up is going to be restless, uncomfortable. And so with the wheel you’re looking for, what is that emotion? Is it anxiety? Is it sadness? It? Does it cause frustration? Does this cause fear? What is it? What is your emotional system signaling to you about that? And then from there, you move on to so once you find out a little bit about emotions, you know that basically what is causing them is ways of looking at the world. So it’s like I am restless, because I want comfort. I want to feel good about myself, but I don’t. So I put a little bit of extra sugar in my coffee. And it returns my day. And it makes me feel at peace about the fact that I’m not the person that my mother wanted me to be or that I’m not the person that I thought I would become.   AW  18:47 Do you see? Yeah, absolutely. It’s very visceral. It’s very visceral, visceral. Yeah.   18:52 And so what are we doing? We’re going backward in that we all the way to your history, which is your past pathways neuropathy. So you carry your history in your body. And you can go from just the construct about the world, which is that okay, well, maybe I’m not succeeding as I thought I would take it can take me straight to the memory of let’s say, I don’t know not being able to do my homework and feeling very, you know, not smart and I feel very restless and going and getting some Nutella and eating some nutella because it made me feel good in the moment. Okay, so I have this moment. So this is the history history is that I don’t feel like I feel unsettled about how smart I am. I call myself through sugar. And then that calm become, that becomes a way in which I call myself and so all of that needs to change. Wow, these neural pathways that bring you calm, that neuropathy says maybe you’re not as smart as you thought you are. Or maybe your teacher told you you’re never gonna amount to anything or maybe some But he made fun of your body when you were seven year old or whatever are kid. All of these things that you carry with you they need to be, shall we say, reprogrammed, you need to override these experiences new early. And oddly enough, that doesn’t take day by day for so many days. It can be couple of days. But you need to know what you’re doing with these techniques.   AW  20:23 So would you recommend that if somebody wanted to make a significant change how redefined significant change that they almost use a checklist of this wheel of self and say, how the motivations work in here? How does my history how does the motions fit in here, and then work really hard to do the work. And then when you when you’ve completed or filled in the blanks, I guess for the elements in the circle may have a higher likelihood of being successful.   20:50 Here’s another way that you can think of it. Let’s say, you just said I want to make a change. I want to start running as of tomorrow. And every morning, I want to run. I say try it a week later, I’ll be asked you, are you running every day? And if you told me no, I’ll send you right to the wheel. Yeah. Because if you’re excited by it, if your emotions are positive about it, if you can’t wait to get out there, well, it doesn’t matter if it’s raining, you’re going to find ways and everything in you is going to be doing this. But if you say I want this, and then you don’t it also means that you don’t want it. And the job of the wheel is to find why you don’t want it and remove the reason.   AW  21:30 Okay. So this is a nice segue into this point that you made in at the at the book launch and also in the book very, very poignantly. And I hear this from my clients sometimes, too. It’s the small things that people say sometimes that have such a huge impact on who we become. Yeah. Which is crazy, right? But you alluded to it, and yeah, in the example that you were just giving, particularly   21:55 if you get this comment when you’re younger, or if you’re in destabilized, because our emotional system works, that when when we are destabilized emotionally, neural pathways build faster. So if you dysregulated me, if you make fun of me, and then sit in on top of it, say something to me, that’s gonna stay burned, etched into my memory. So I call in the book that significant defense, which is a little bit different than like, very extreme trauma, but it’s still functions in the same way, which is that it stays there as kind of this free floating set of sensations in you. Yeah, that activates every time somebody brings up the topic.   AW  22:33 And we look for reinforcement of our self beliefs, right? I mean, same with others, we look for reinforcement, or signals that reinforce our beliefs about others as   22:41 well. So if let’s say, you have a friend betray you in third grade, and you have this kind of belief or lens that clamps on that says, I can’t trust people again. So what do you do that and then every new person you meet is like, I can’t trust you, and I can’t trust you. And if you want a relationship, guess what, you’re not going to pick trustworthy people, because they don’t confirm your idea about people you pick on trustworthy people to confirm to you that they cannot be trusted. And there we have that self fulfilling prophecies that can be that can lead us into trouble.   AW  23:18 So do you have any poignant, illustrative, illustrative examples, that maybe some of your students or maybe through interviews that you learned were in an executive context, right, where people were maybe seeking to improve their, their executive presence, they’re speaking or something,   23:35 I, you know, what, I have a lot of examples like, so I put some of them in the book. So I can kind of, I can, let me see what I can bring up. So I find inevitably, when somebody comes with inability to feel comfortable in public, inevitably, they don’t feel comfortable in private. So it would be something like, you know, I want to live, let’s say, my parents don’t approve off. And therefore, I feel like I can’t be myself, I feel like I should really respect them follow what they’re saying. But on the other hand, I also want what I want. And so when you put me in public, you’re basically putting in public, the splintered version of me, which is me fighting against myself. And what I find interesting for leaders in particular is this. You know, when you’re a leader, you’re asked to go out there and you kind of open the door to your heart, you’re just get up there and you open the door and if you don’t open the door, you will look very stiff. Yeah. And non transparent and non authentic. So I tell leader, so Okay, so let’s say that you want to be authentic. You go up there and you opened the door to yourself, but what’s in there is a mess, confusion, competing war, like you haven’t sorted yourself out and I said, we’re not doing anybody a favor. I tell them Look inside, just tried to sort yourself out to try to understand yourself, try to grow parts of yourself that are under grown, and then open the door. So that the things that people can see become inspiring. And nobody wants perfection, we don’t want to see perfection. The image I always have is, there’s a ancient Japanese art, I’m sure you’ve heard of it. It’s called Art of golden repair, where they have these beautiful, they have a ball, let’s say, a clay pot. And if they break it with the artists, they pour gold into the seams to hold this ball back together. And the balls are incredibly beautiful. Yeah, so I see people like that. So we’re all a bit broken, okay, we’re all a bit of a mess. We’ve all had things and, and working on yourself is like pouring gold in the seams of our broken,   AW  25:56 what a beautiful metaphor.   25:58 When you that’s what people want to say they don’t want to see perfection, because they’re not perfection. And when they see you and they think you’re perfect. They’ll say, Well, that’s not who I am, I guess good for you. But when you see both your brokenness and your growth and development and the way that you put yourself together, it gives them hope.   AW  26:16 So do you share with your students and your readers? Some of your own? Oh,   26:23 yeah, you know, what cracks? Oh, yeah. Build? Oh, yes. I, I’ll bring this one about. Presentations, right. So I used to be the most terrible, terrible teacher and speaker, it would plunge me into such fear and state of existential distress, that I almost cry, like, I could not even introduce myself, right? I would I when I was in my PhD, and I would start teaching, I would I would be in blisters, like I would have physical reaction to wow. And it was such an extreme state that somebody could say, I could have easily said, You know what, this is just why I’m the person who’s very much an introvert. I don’t need this. I don’t want this. This is not my strength. This is not why. If you had, if you had shown me that video of myself, at whatever, when I was 25. And then you fast forward 15 years. Okay? I would the 25 year old version wouldn’t believe that I could get so much joy. And it would that is my life’s potential to teach. Yeah. Right, if I got stuck in that story. And if I got stuck in that pain, I, you know, the best of me would have been left behind. And so this idea that we you know, we always really focus on the strengths, then to me becomes very fraught, because if you focus on your strengths, I would have given up any interaction Republican factor research lab and never, you will never hear from him again. And, but there is something pulling in, we need to hear the thing that is pulling us and saying, okay, work on yourself, try to sort it out, try to figure out why is it that you get sued? What prevents you from being yourself right in public? So for me, and I always tell my students, I mean, if I can stand in front of you like this and talk like this, trust me, you can my   AW  28:26 you absolutely commanded the room at your book talk. I mean, phenomenal. I   28:32 was the same person. Yeah, it was in blisters that 25 or 25, from stress about being in front of others.   AW  28:40 I love that story. There’s hope for all of us, there’s   28:43 hope for all of us. If there’s hope for me, there’s hope for all of us. That’s awesome.   AW  28:47 Is there anything else you want to add about the possible self before we move into the three rapid fire questions?   28:53 No, use it you know, it can inform you but you can also use it to work on yourself and only you know, when you’re ready. So just use it however you want either just to read and inform yourself to understand yourself just a little bit better and others or to really do the deep work,   AW  29:10 right? So someone in other words, someone might pick it up, not thinking about a development, specific developmental need that they have. And someone else might be, there’s a specific thing I want to work on him. This is going to help me figure that out. Okay. Okay, you ready for the three questions? So this first question is a little bit meta given the conversation that we just had, so I can’t wait to hear how you answer it. Are you Maya an introvert or an extrovert?   29:40 ambivert. So, so both when, depending on time to day, the mood Okay,   AW  29:47 your answer surprised me. I thought you you would say I’m not allowed to say I am.   29:53 You’re asking about the past who knows what’s going to happen in the future? Okay, okay. Okay. So I am is the question about So I have been I have been introverted. I have been extrovert, I’ve been all sorts of things.   AW  30:03 Most of us are ambiverts. Right. I ask it I tell people that I asked it that way to be provocative. Yeah, right. You know what the most common answer is, is, I am a high functioning introvert. I hear that all the time. And then I’m like, I want to educate them about how introvert introversion is not a bad thing. It’s just introverts are the best list.   30:23 It’s so funny, high functioning as if it’s a disease. Exactly.   AW  30:25 Yeah. Wow. Okay, second question. What are your communication? Pet peeves?   30:32 People who don’t want to communicate? So we did, like, I don’t want to talk about it. I mean, we need to really respect when people don’t want to talk about it. But if somebody really likes talking about things, I find that difficult, it constrains the relationship in a way that I find very difficult.   AW  30:52 Yeah. So in professional context, sometimes Oh, and in personal context, right? People   30:57 just don’t like let’s say, you could have a colleague who gets upset and about something that happened and you want to fix it, or you want to at least ask about it. And they’re like, oh, I have no idea what you’re talking about, or in personal reads like, oh, I don’t want to talk about this thing. And that, you know, we need to respect people don’t have to talk to us if they don’t want to, but it makes it difficult. Yeah.   AW  31:17 To keep Yeah. Oh, given your background on kind of optimizing yourself. Yes. I can see that. That must drive you crazy. Oh, you need to talk about it. Even just internally, if not with others.   31:29 No. And also, it’s like when people don’t want to develop themselves. Like, what your potential is calling for you. I feel sad, but everybody has their you know, I have to leave. It’s different people’s paths. I have to leave it. Yeah,   AW  31:42 we need to be respectful. Yes. Interesting. I’ve not heard that answer before. That’s amazing. Okay, last question. Is there a podcast or a book other than your own, that you find yourself recommending the most lately? Yes,   31:54 I always recommend this one book called The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Vander Kolk fantastic book about trauma that I think helps people understand just what it means like that they carry their past with you, that you carry your past with you and that it’s continually influencing you and if you want it, you to influence you a different way that you need to do something inside of the body.   AW  32:18 So it’s it’s mixing I have I haven’t read the book. I’ve heard of it many times. Fantastic. But it’s about like merging of trauma. It’s trauma, physiological response and emotional response and all that. Okay. Anything else you want to add?   32:32 No. What thank you for fantastic conversation. Thank   AW  32:35 you so much for your time, and I’m going to recommend that everybody go out and buy the possible self. Thank you so much.   32:42 Thank you. My pleasure.   Thanks again to Maja for so generously, sharing her at her time and insights with us. After I stopped recording, Maja and I continued our conversation in her office. Frankly, I wish I hadn’t stopped recording. Perhaps we’ll have another chance to continue the conversation.   There’s so many meaningful points that Maja made.  In particular, I loved her metaphor of working on ourselves, on our self-improvement or personal development. She said it’s like pouring gold into the seams of a broken clay pot. She spoke about the ancient Japanese art of gold repair, where they pour molten gold to fill the cracks. I hadn’t heard of that before, but I could imagine exactly what she was talking about. I looked it up. It’s called KINTSUGI.  Spelled KINTSUGI., which literally means “join with Gold.” What a beautiful metaphor.   Now, as promised, I’m going to briefly summarize three learnings that I want to reinforce with you based on our conversation.   First. The two false assumptions that form the premise of this book: “the possible self.” The first one is that we are stable and static – no we are not. As Maja said, we a constantly evolving. Personality is not static. You are not a fixed box. Rather you’re more like a ball, rolling along, collecting things, changing, constantly evolving. The second false assumption is that we change through sheer willpower. Again that’s wrong. Instead, Maja points to the research – hers and others – which concludes that a more holistic focus on making change is what’s going to work.   The second key learning that I want to reinforce is a framework, a new way to think about this holistic view. It’s called “the wheel of self.” There are five elements of the wheel of self, including your motivations. your behaviors, your emotions, your mind, and your body. If you’re looking to make a change, if you’re focussing on personal development and possible self improvement, again, it’s not just willpower. If you consider your motivations, your behaviors, your motivations, your mind, and your body, and how these things all relate to your objective, then you’re much more likely to be successful in achieving your goal.   The third point I want to reinforce is the significance of what we might believe are the small things that people say. The small things that people say to us and the small things that we say to others. Sometimes these seemingly small things manifest in big significant ways. It’s certainly worth the effort to take care with our words directed at others, and also to interpret the true motivation and meaning behind others’ comments.    Think back to when you were a child. Maybe in elementary school or junior high. The comments you heard from peers, from teachers, from family members. And some of them just stuck in your mind. They probably had far bigger consequences on you than intended. Off the top of my head. I remember one Halloween when I was in elementary school and I wore lots of make up. One of my favourite teachers caught me in the hallway and said wow andrea when you start wearing make up you’re gonna be a knockout! wait, what? WOW! I know that sounds like a ridiculous example. But I’ve often thought in my mind. I wonder if that teacher was conscious at all about what she was saying about my appearance, and what I had to do to improve it. Whether it’s a comment about appearance or intellect or skill or style, whatever it is. Whether you’re making or receiving the comment. Consider the impact that you’re making with seemingly trivial comments.  Small things can have big consequences. Alright. That’s it. That’s everything for this episode.  Thanks again to Professor Maja D catch for sharing her time and her insights with us. I recommend I strongly recommend her book which you can find a link to in the show notes.   If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will refer it to one of your friends, and I also hope you’ll leave a review on Apple, Spotify or YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.    Thank you so much for listening. Talk soon. The post Self-Improvement & The Possible Self with Professor Maja Djikic (ep.157) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

  There are infinite ways that we can reinforce our professional identity or personal brand. Here are 5 of the most direct and specific ways that you can reinforce your professional identity starting right now. Let’s start with the most direct: (1) your self introduction. There’s also (2) speaking up in meetings, (3) demonstrating thought leadership, (4) mentoring, teaching, and learning, and (5) being active and visible.      CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/   TRANSCRIPT This episode is going to be a little different from most of the other Talk about Talk podcast episodes that you may have heard. The topic of today’s episode was inspired by a question that I received at a Q&A question and answer period that I held just earlier this week. This Q&A was hosted on LinkedIn Live and the topic was establishing your professional identity and your personal brand. Some of my favorite topics right? Let me tell you what this particular question was. The question from one of the viewers was. Andrea. How do I broadcast my brand? Pretty simple question, right? I had an answer immediately and this answer is the truth. It’s my truth and it’s this. I am obsessed. Listing categorizing infinite number. Broadcast. We’re communicating directly through our words and interacting. We’re also communicating constantly online and in person. The number of ways that we broadcast. Looking for something? And that’s when I decided to listen to the podcast episode today. Podcast episode, I’m going to answer the question. I’m gonna share with you 5 specific and significant ways you can reinforce your personal brand or your professional, starting right now. Are you ready?  Welcome to Talk about Talk Podcast Episode #156 Five ways to reinforce your Professional identity. In case we haven’t met, my name is Doctor Andrea. Wojnicki please just call me. I’m your executive communication. I coach and business executives like you to improve their communication skills so you can communicate with confidence and clarity. Credibility. And then you can create impact, ultimately achieving your career goals. Sound good? If you want to learn more, check out talk about talk.com. I’ve got lots and lots of resources for you there. I’ve got one-on-one coaching. There’s boot camps, information about corporate workshops. Archive of this bi weekly podcast and when you’re there, I really hope to sign up for my Body weekly newsletter. There is an archive of this biweekly podcast, and while you’re at talkabouttalk.com, I really hope you’ll sign up for my e-mail newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication program from me. Sound good?  Alright, let’s get into this. Here’s how this episode is going to go. Then I mean a lot on my original answer to this question of how do we broadcast our brand And then I’m going to share with you 5 specific. And significant ways that you can reinforce your personal brand. So we’re going to get a little more actionable here.  Alright, first defining a personal brand. If you’ve been following the Talk About Talk podcast or receiving the newsletter. You might be familiar with this, but I’m going to say it again. Your personal brand is your identity or your reputation. You can almost use those as synonyms. Fantastic definition of your personal brand that I like to use. It’s more like a mental exercise, he says. Your brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room. Now, of course you have a brand when you are in the room. This is more, as I said, like a mental exercise. So imagine some important stakeholders. Maybe your boss and bosses boss, or if you’re in entrepreneur, maybe it’s an investor or collaborator is talking about you. Your name comes up in conversation when you’re not in the room. What are those people thinking and saying about you? That is your personal brand and your professional identity. We can do things to strategically optimize what it is.    So my definition. Yourself. There’s really two elements of this right It’s being yourself. So you’re always authentic and true to ourselves. We’re not inventing something and we’re certainly not being dishonest. It is authentic and true. We are being ourselves. The second part of this definition is that we’re doing this on purpose. We are offering no apologies for the fact that we’re being strategic and disciplined about controlling our narrative and making sure that we are presenting our ideal or optimized personal brand.    So what’s the difference between a personal brand and a professional identity? I just want to clarify this a little bit. So. In the work that I do with executives, I use these two words synonymously. Personal brand is your reputation or identity, and it includes your whole self. On the other hand, your professional identity is also your whole self. But look through the lens. Of your career or your profession, or what you do for a living. So you may prioritize some of your more professional endeavors and activities and accomplishments ahead of more personal things, but those are still part of alright as I said before it is your whole self.    So we’ve got that out of the way. We have defined personal brand.    When I’m coaching folks on establishing their personal brand, we have a process that we follow 2 main steps. Step one. Instep T is communicating. So I always say that what may differentiate the way I post personal branding versus other personal branding coaches is I focused way way more on step one. I’ve seen countless, countless examples consistently of where executives are focusing on establishing the unique identity. And before you skip to the second step of communicating your brand, it’s really important that we nail that. So we typically spend about 75% of our time, give or take, on the step. One which is creating or articulating your brand  then we move over into Step 2 which is communicating your personal brand. This by the way. Was the question that I received in the Q&A session where the gentleman said, Andrea. How do we broadcast our personal brand? This was. Step two of the process. This is the communication step. My answer, as I said earlier in this episode, was that there are infinite, yes infinite ways that we communicate our personal brand. I’ve become sort of obsessed over the last several years in creating this list and making it as complete as I can. For the purpose of the workshops that I do and the coaching of executives that I do, I’ve put this list into a two by two. So it’s like a two by two matrix like they do in consulting, where on one dimension of the matrix We’re looking at considering the direct versus the indirect or implicit ways that we communicate. So let me just define what I mean by that. The direct ways that we communicate our brand are through words, right? You are explicitly using words, whether it’s verbal or written, to share your strengths. Your expertise, your superpowers, and so on. So that’s direct. And then indirectly also communicating your personal brand through things like. Background. How you dress, your hair, your tone of voice, your punctuality, These are all signals that other people are interpreting about you to identify what your personal brand is. Sometimes. Do all of all out there trying to identify and decipher what other people are all about. So we’re looking for signals to force the judgment. You gotta do all of this so we’ve got the direct versus. I’m making that that’s a different colour in person and online. So when we’re in person, we can see. The person’s body is body language and so on, and there are many things that crossover those. But you can think of start cooking until you got all of it ready to go, thinking about and maybe even brainstorming different ways that you can or as this gentleman said. Broadcast our personal brand, again, Direct. Lettuce if you want, but online and in person. So that was the answer that I gave this general in the Q&A.  A little bit about not providing him with a real. Different ways. While I’m prepping this episode, I had to cook, no. Once I have professional identity. Eat chicken. Hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of executives on how to establish your personal brand. These are the ones that seem to get a lot of traction. I’m going to read them first and then I’m going to elaborate on them.    So the first one is you rself introduction, the second one is speaking up in meetings and how you do that the third one is demonstrating thught leadership. The 4th one is mentoring, teaching and learning, and the last one is being active and visible. Elaborate now on each of those four things.  1. YOUR SELF INTRODUCTION Yourself Introduction And I think I did actually say this at the LinkedIn Live earlier this week. Yourself introduction is unquestionably the most direct way for you to reinforce your personal brand. Let me say that again yourself. Introduction is the most direct way for you to reinforce your personal brand or your professional identity. Why is this? Well. Very often yourself introduction is the first impression, and we know that first impressions are very important impressions, right? So there’s that, there’s the significance of it. It’s also coming from you. So it’s highly credible and it’s true words which are direct words the issues. So how could any other format of communicating any other media, any other broadcast media? Anymore direct than your very own self introduction.    I can guess what some of you were thinking. I was already introductions. Now I’m really, really nervous about myself. Introductions. The number one talk about talk podcast episodes of all time in terms of downloads is episode #86, Simple framework to introduce yourself. I’m going to teach it to right now. They quickly if you’ve already heard it, this is just a review and I want you to still follow along. So the three steps for you. Introduce yourself with confidence that you can customize for any context. Is this present? Past, future? Present, past, future. It is not chronological. Let me quickly take you through what this what this framework is step #1. Present tense. Hi, my name is Doctor Andrea Wojnicki and I’m an Executive communication I hope. This. Positive future oil, ideally related to the person that you’re meeting. So you could say, I’m really looking forward to this kickoff meeting. I know we’re gonna rock this project or and now I’d really like to learn more about you or say write a networking event at a conference. I’m really looking forward to getting to know people including all of this. Yourself Introduction. As I said. Most direct way that you have to win four Super. Present past that. It’s not last. Sharing your autobiography or biography not starting from when you were born. Start with the present. Go back. Establish credit. Steps.  in the present. Step one for present tense. So sometimes when I’m introducing myself, I’ll say. Audience. Even with. So we’re going to move on. Number one, most direct an important way to enforce the personal brand. Self introduction. If you haven’t already listened to episode #86 and talk about talk podcasts, I encourage you to do so. And as you listen to it, ask yourself what would I say about myself into these three steps that’s gonna help me reinforce my professional identity? Alright, moving on in our list.  2. HOW YOU SPEAK UP IN MEETINGS 2nd way to reinforce your professional idea. Earlier today. Smart, young manager and he said that he sometimes feels a little bit tongue tide in meetings. He said. I generally in very well prepared, but sometimes inevitably things come up in the meetings that I haven’t prepared for and I feel like I don’t know what to say. And I said to him, listen. Your personal brand. Look at before you go into the meeting and then for every feeling not sure what to say. On the experience. And this is this is my. When it comes to meetings and reinforcing the personal brand, there are several. Almost like starting your comments in meetings, for example, you could say. Based on my background in statistic marketing, I have a suggestion, right? So what you’re doing is you’re anchoring your comments, in your legitimate authentic background. Your expertise. Which reminds me of the second queue, which is. Expertise in. So as an academic, I can say based on my expertise in marketing or based on my expertise in consumer behavior, whatever or you could say based on my experience, but this is a great one, you could say based on my experience in the project that we did last quarter or based on my recent experience with a similar client, right? And suddenly people are leaning in ’cause it’s almost like an objective way. It’s almost like an objective way of identifying. Reinforcing your categorizing or you’re labeling what your own expertise is to everybody else in the room. I hope that makes sense. My point is this. You don’t have to answer every question that comes up. When you’re speaking up in meetings with a definitive answer, you can narrow your answer in terms of the context of your personal brand or your professional identity. So if you’ve taken the time to articulate and create, establish your personal brand. No, in your mind. When you’re speaking up in meetings. People again, by saying based on my background, based on my expertise or based on my experience, I know it works. I’ve done it myself and I’ve coached many, many people have done so successfully. Alright, so we are onto number that we’ve covered self introduction and we covered reinforcing your professional identity by speaking up in meetings,    3. DEMONSTRATING THOUGHT LEADERSHIP the third one is demonstrated thought leadership. So. Once you’ve taken the time to identify and articulate. The elements Various themes of your personal brand, including your expertise. It’s time to establish thought leadership in a recent podcast episode I Interviewed. Roger Martin, my past boss at the University of Toronto, very succinctly highlighted that there’s a difference between private and public thought leadership, and I think this is this is important to note here. You don’t necessarily need to become a public thought leader, although you may want to. And I encourage you to do so. But you definitely, if you are a leader, needs to at least be a private thought leader. Private Being internal to your firm, people need to know what your expertise is. And I’m not just talking about being the CEO at all levels of leadership. We should have a stake in the ground in terms of what our thought leadership is really, really important. So how do we do so? well? Actually my previous suggestion of reinforcing your personal brand by how you speak up in meetings literally. Define what your comment is in terms of establishing the thought leadership, right. You’re saying my expertise based on my expertise, based on my experience. That’s you identifying font leadership is. So it could be just speaking up in meetings. It also could be writing papers. You can post things on LinkedIn you can. share articles, you can podcast, you can public speaking you can get a panel right. Just think about the multiple media that you have to share thought leadership. And I have a little secret for you here that never crossed my mind until maybe a couple years ago. And that is the people that. Are also not afraid to share other people’s thoughts. Other words, it’s not just writing and thinking it came from you, but also secondly, I notice that one thought leader that I admire very much, Adam Grant, does this a lot. Yes, on to his podcast. And he also recommends groups by people that you might think are direct or at least in direct. Competitors of his is so focused on establishing thought leadership and sharing his insights with others, he welcomes it. So here’s Leadership. It’s not just your own thought leadership. You can also share other people’s thought leadership. How exactly do this? You’re probably wondering. Here’s an easy one on LinkedIn. If you find a post written by someone else or maybe an article. Share it to your community or network on social media and say here’s a great article about like I do this here’s a great article about personal branding. They list 7 things. I would add an eighth right? So you’re further reinforcing your own expertise by elaborating on what the other person said and maybe. But you’re also encouraging other people to read it and you’re establishing the fact you are the go to person in that area. Alright, so I hope that’s clear covered three different ways to reinforce your professional identity. And sharing others. Broadcast.    4. MENTORING, TEACHING & LEARNING   Your professional identity is mentoring, teaching, and learning. So. Yeah. Go to shower head. And mentoring is a very, very.  So if there is an element of your professional identity or your expertise that you think you could teach others, I encourage you to do so. This will just reinforce what your professional identity is. Let me share with you. Putting a senior partner at a global firm right now and we’ve been working on developing her personal brand. Personal brand. Right. Both culturally and individually, she’s a fantastic mentor and she’s definitely shaping the culture of the organization. So I’ve encouraged her, consistent with this 4th way of reinforcing your professional identity, to also teach other people to do the same, right? So the junior partners and the managers that are reporting to her, who also have direct reports she’s coaching them on how they can become people leaders. See how it works. Take the expertise wanna be known for and coach other people to do that and other people will see you as an expert in that domain.    5. BE ACTIVE & VISIBLE OK, on to the 5th way to reinforce your professional identity. It’s this. Be active and visible. Find what your personal. Jeff Bezos definition brand could be seen as what other noise, but it would make sense to cook all of the same thing at the same time. They might not think anything and then the person that has been around. Or is going to benefit from the right? What does this mean? Well, this is a strong argument for going into the office or meeting people for coffee, meeting people for lunches, right? Going to events. Yes, you default whenever you’re invited to a conference or meal or meeting or an event. Yesterday fault, of course, you’re not going to be able to do it all, but you want to be visible and you want to be active. And this is really important both online and offline. So honestly, I could create another infinite list from here. But made yesterday fault. All the people that you work with whenever you can. Through networking events, through social media, Right through conferences make you. Be visible.  Alright. That’s it. That’s everything for this podcast. Episode #156. Let me review with you again here quickly the five ways to reinforce your professional identity. The challenge that I have for you is to identify which one or two of these you’re going to take action on right now so that you can improve your professional identity. Here they are again  #1 your self Introduction. Remember the Framework: Present, Past, Future. And remember to integrate your professional identity in terms of those three steps.  #2 is speaking up in meetings. The 3 prompts that I suggest for you are: “Bsd on my background,” “Based on my experience,” and “Based on my expertise…” The 3rd way to reinforce your professional identity. Is demonstrating thought leadership in meetings, formally and informally, in person and online, publicly and privately  The 4th way to reinforce your professional identity is mentoring, teaching, and learning. If you are a mentor and a teacher, you’re going to be seen as an expert and you need to continuously learn about your area of expertise.  The fifth and last way to reinforce your professional identity is to be active and visible. Make your default, yes, whenever you’re invited to lunch. To a conference, to a networking event and get out there online and in person, on social media, across whatever media it is. Just say yes, be active  and visible.    Alright, that’s it for this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will refer it to one of your friends, and I also hope you’ll need a review on Apple or Spotify or YouTube or wherever.    Thank you so much for listening. Talk soon.   The post 5 Ways to Reinforce Your PROFESSIONAL IDENTITY (ep.156) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Gratitude is a communication skill that can build loyalty, serves as a catalyst to connect, and it releases endorphins! Andrea interviews The Currency of Gratitude author Michele Bailey, who shares insights on how to express gratitude in a professional context, how gratitude relates to brand ambassadors, how gratitude relates to reciprocity, whether expressing gratitude makes you sound weak, and some provocative thoughts about work-life balance.   RESOURCES BOOK: The Currency Of Gratitude: Turning Small Gestures Into Powerful Business Results by Michele Bailey – https://amzn.to/434Vqpe Michele Bailey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-bailey-a111b6a/ Michele’s agency is BLAZING: https://blazing.agency/ Recommended podcasts: Tim Ferriss – https://tim.blog/podcast/ Smartless – https://www.smartless.com/ Happier – https://gretchenrubin.com/podcasts/ On Purpose – https://www.jayshetty.me/podcast Huberman Lab – https://www.hubermanlab.com/podcast Voices of leadership – https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/voices-of-leadership-insights-and-inspirations/id1710435149 CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT I have a question for you. What are you grateful for? Who are you grateful for? How often do you explicitly express your gratitude? I mean beyond a simple THANK YOU. Welcome to Talk About Talk Podcast Episode #155, where we focus on the power of gratitude. My guest for this episode is an expert on Gratitude. In fact, she literally wrote the book entitled, The Currency of Gratitude. Her name is Michele Bailey. I can’t wait for you to meet her.  You’re going to learn about the benefits of gratitude, how exactly you can express gratitude in a professional or work context. How gratitude relates to brand ambassadors. And how to think about gratitude and reciprocity. And lots more. Including whether expressing gratitude makes you sound weak, and some provocative thoughts about work life balance.  Are you ready?  Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast episode number 155, The Power of Gratitude In case we haven’t met, let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please call me Andrea! I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I coach communication skills to ambitious executives like you – to elevate your communication, your confidence and your clarity, so you can establish credibility and then accomplish your career goals. If you go to the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many resources to help you out. There’s information there about one-on-one coaching, online courses, some amazing bootcamps that I run every few months, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, AND, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me every week.  Alright let’s get into this. You’re about to hear my interview with Michele Bailey on the Currency of Gratitude.  Michele provides a pretty compelling argument for why we should all be communicating gratitude a lot more. And this woman walks her talk.  She is on a mission to thank everyone around her – in a meaningful way, of course, and also to encourage us to do the same. And yes, she literally wrote the book on Gratitude. It’s called “The Currency of Gratitude”. You can find the link in the shownotes. Here’s how this episode is going to go. 1st, I’m going to briefly introduce Michele and then we’re going to get right into the interview. And then at the end, I’m going to summarize with three, yes, of course, ALWAYS! three of the main thoughts or themes that I want to reinforce for us. Alright, let me introduce Michele. Michele Bailey is founder of The Blazing Group, a brand and culture agency that leverages her strategy-first approach to business, her flair for sharing stories, and her desire to enhance employee wellness while pursuing business goals. Her advertising agency, Blazing, is turning branding inside out with “My Big Idea®,” (YES she trademarked that phrase: “My Big Idea”), which is an employee mentoring and wellness program designed to propel personal and professional success.  In short, Michele and her team have found the formula for creating awesome business cultures that drive exceptional marketing. Countless companies have discovered greater team cohesion and boosted their bottom-line results as a direct result of Michele’s proprietary process.  Today though, she is pushes her clients and others to take it one step further; to make true gratitude integral to the way business is done. As I said, Michele literally wrote the book on Gratitude.  It’s called “The Currency of gratitude.”  It’s published by ForbesBooks, and it’s a great read. You can find a link to the book at the top of the shownotes, under the episode description. Alright let’s hear from Michele. Andrea: Thank you so much, Michele, for being here today to talk with us about the power of gratitude.  Michele: Andrea, I’m so grateful and appreciative to be with you today.  Andrea: Great answer. My first question for you is, can you list for us what some of the benefits of gratitude are, either that you’ve experienced, witnessed, or maybe that you’ve read about? Michele: I’m so grateful and appreciative to be with you today. First of all, it’s an endorphin release. It’s a positive release of endorphins that happen within your brain in your body. And to start your day with gratitude automatically brings joy, calmness, and you will find yourself smiling without even being conscious of it. Because you are giving a positive affirmation, acknowledgement, or appreciation to someone else. It lifts you up without you realizing that you’re being lifted. Andrea: Right, right. So, as you were answering that, something occurred to me. I remember years ago, reading some research that said, if daily you write down one to three things that you’re grateful for, research shows that your life satisfaction will improve significantly. And I started doing this. But what I hear from you is expressing gratitude to people, right? Michele: Exactly, Andrea. I talked about writing down the three things you’re grateful for every day, and I don’t want to take anything away from that. But if that brings you a lot of joy, can you imagine what happens when you take that and you send it out to someone else? It magnifies it threefold, fivefold, tenfold. So, I’m on a mission to teach people how easy it is to push gratitude outside of yourself. It has a multiplier effect that’s not just about you. Andrea: I love that answer. I think it’s absolutely true. As you were saying it, I was thinking, if you express gratitude to one person, it’s not that you’re just doubling it, right? You are creating a multiplier effect. So, in a professional context, what are some specific ways that you express gratitude or that you encourage your clients to do the same? Michele: Well, I actually have a methodology of seven questions that you answer. If you answer these questions openly and honestly, watch the transformation that happens in your relationships, both professionally and personally. The questions guide you through expressing gratitude in a structured way, making it clear to the other person how they have helped you and why you are acknowledging them. It’s magical. Andrea: Wow, that is a magical framework. Can you maybe give us a couple of examples of when people using that framework, so you could say you’re thanking a client or you’re thanking an employee? How might it sound? Michele: With a client, for example, I’ll talk about a gentleman who owns a construction company. I wrote him a gratitude card answering those questions because he taught me a lot by being so hard and tough. His wife came up to me at an event and said that note is framed in his office. It reminds him of the difference he made in some young entrepreneur’s life. Andrea: Amazing. Speaking of making a difference, gratitude is also a currency. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Michele: Absolutely, Andrea. Gratitude, like currency, needs to be put into circulation to have value. If you hoard it, it diminishes. But if you spend it, give it away, it comes back to you with a mega return. It’s about making sure you are putting it out wherever you feel you should because it does come back to you in the most unexpected ways. Andrea: That’s fascinating. You’re making me think about a bunch of things. Now, speaking of time, you made a comment in the book about work-life balance. You have a different take on that, and I found it to be very provocative. Can you elaborate on your advice for managing work-life balance? Michele: I’ve been asked many times about work-life balance, and I say there’s no balance, there’s a blend. There’s an integration. Decide and put aside time to refuel you first. Making sure you’ve got what it takes so you can then turn around and help other people. Plan things out, so you also have carrots to look forward to. It’s about identifying priorities and making rules for yourself. Andrea: That’s a great insight. Before we move on to the rapid-fire questions, is there anything else you want to add about gratitude and the currency of gratitude? Michele: In under five minutes, you can change a relationship with someone in your professional or personal life. It takes less than five minutes. Don’t overthink it. Just do it. Just write it, just call them, just email. Under five minutes, and watch what happens. … Andrea: Amazing, thank you so much, Michele. I am very grateful for the time and the incredible insights that you shared with me and the listeners. Thank you. Isn’t Michele great? Thanks again, Michele, for your time and for sharing your insights about gratitude. Now, as promised, three things I want to point out, that I hope you’ll remember ,about this episode Their first point is the benefits of gratitude. What’s the upside of sending thank you notes and expressing your gratitude? Well, Michele. In this conversation, Michele identified 3 different benefits to gratitude. She started by talking about the endorphin release that we experience when we express gratitude. And we, when we express gratitude to others, they in turn also benefit from endorphin release. It’s contagious. And that’s a big benefit. The second benefit of expressing gratitude is that it builds loyalty. Think of the stories Michele shared about client referrals, brand ambassadors, and tokens of gratitude. This all builds loyalty. The third benefit of gratitude. That we discussed is that gratitude can be a catalyst. For connecting with others. Think about that person. That you regret. Not staying connected with. Chances are you are grateful to them for some reason. Reaching out. With a simple thank you can be a catalyst to reconnect. With that person. New line new line so the three benefits of gratitude are endorphins, loyalty. And the fact that gratitude can serve as a catalyst for reconnecting with someone. The second point I want to reinforce is. Michele’s point? About the significance of. Brand ambassadors when it comes to grant to. Gratitude. About the individuals in your network, maybe they have provided you with client referrals, Perhaps they have mentored you, Or perhaps they’ve acted as a sponsored to help you accelerate your career trajectory. These are your personal brand ambassadors. As you’re strategically thinking about your career, If you haven’t done so already, make a list of who your important brand ambassadors are and make sure they understand how grateful you are. The third and last point that I want to reinforce is a Call to action. Yes, this is your homework. I challenge you. To leverage the currency of gratitude by explicitly directly thanking 3 people in your network, yes, the power of three. It may be one or two clients. One or two coworkers. One or two mentors. You probably know who these people are. Then. Customize a thank you for them. Customize the medium through which you communicate it. It could be through e-mail, it could be over the phone, it could be face to face, maybe take them out for lunch. Or you could do as Michele does and right. A formal thank you card. If you’re looking from process for what to say to this person, here’s list of seven prompts from Michele’s book that she also mentions in the interview.  One word that describes you is.  You came into my life when You bring me joy by  You contribute to my life by.  you are special to me because.  you have helped me by. And  . I want to thank you for.  You can choose from any of these seven prompts or customize one that’s appropriate. And of course if you want to reference these. Prompts. There in the transcript. Of the show notes. On the Talk about talk.com website. That’s it for this episode. I want to say thank you again to Michele. Michele. I am very grateful for you sharing your insights. I’m feeling about gratitude. I’m feeling very inspired. Thank you. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, I hope you’ll share it with your friends and generously leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it. If you want to connect, I’d love to hear from you. You connect with me on LinkedIn and message me there.  You can also go to the talkabouttalk.com website and send me a message there.  Thanks again for listening. I am grateful. And talk soon! The post The Currency of GRATITUDE with Michele Bailey (ep.155) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Andrea coaches you on 5 quick fixes to boost your communication effectiveness: How to avoid upspeak, establish eye contact, focus on others, communicate with precision, and control your narrative. Where should you focus to get traction and improve your communication skills? CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Lately, when I’m in coaching sessions, I’ve been noticing a few common mistakes that many executives make. Sometimes it’s a bad habit.  Sometimes it’s just not knowing better. It almost always negatively impacts their credibility. Fortunately, there are quick fixes that can significantly improve their communication effectiveness, and ultimately boost their credibility.  So I thought it might for an impactful episode if I shared with you 5 quick fixes to boost your communication effectiveness. Are you curious what these 5 quick fixes are? Let’s do this. Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast episode number 154, quick fixes to boost your communication effectiveness. Yes, this is going to be a productive episode. In case we haven’t met, let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please call me Andrea! I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I coach communication skills to ambitious executives like you – to elevate your communication and your confidence, so you can establish credibility, and accomplish your career goals. If you go to the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many resources to help you out. There’s information there about one-on-one coaching, online courses, bootcamps, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, AND, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me.  This is going to be a relatively short episode, but it’s going to be valuable for you. I encourage you to think about which one or two of these five things where you can get the most traction to improve your communication. I encourage you to carefully listen to the definitions, the examples, the stories, and the solutions that I will list for you here. Don’t worry about taking notes. As always, I do that for you. I’ll summarize what the five points are at the very end, and I encourage you to go to the talkabouttalk.com website where you can access the full transcript of this episode. Alright let’s get into this. The first quick fix that I recommend is this Avoid upspeak. 1of 5 Quick Fixes: Avoid Upspeak Upspeak is the habit of ending sentences with a rising intonation, as if posing a question. Kind of like this? It’s a common feature among many speakers?, particularly women and younger individuals,? but it’s not exclusive to them.  Recently I’ve noticed an uptick in Upspeak. Yeah, got that. And uptick in upspeak. It’s like upspeak might be a trend.  But this is not a trend you want to join. When you sound as if you’re asking a question, even when it’s not a question, you sound unsure of yourself, like you’re seeking validation.  This is not how credible leaders sound. If you’re not sure whether you use upspeak, I have three suggestions for how to diagnose yourself: Ask a trusted friend or even your boss.  You could say “I just learned about Upspeak.  Do you know what it is?” Then “Do you ever hear me using upspeak?” Record yourself in a meeting, and then listen specifically to your intonation.  Create a transcript of a meeting when you talk a lot and then search the transcript for question marks.  If the AI that created the transcript thinks you’re asking a Q, then chances are, so do us humans. Interestingly, with all of the executives with whom I’ve mentioned upspeak, none of them had heard of it. Then, once we talked about what it is and how it can negatively impact your credibility, 100% of them were able to at least minimize if not avoid upspeak altogether. That’s a pretty high cure rate! A few years ago, one of my clients asked me to meet with each of his direct reports in one-on-one coaching sessions, to improve their communication. I remember he told me that he was really excited about the potential of one of his newest recruits, a recent university graduate who was valedictorian of her class and was wickedly smart and ambitious. However, he was concerned that she didn’t come across as professional as she should. When I met her in our one-on-one coaching sessions, one of the first things that I diagnosed was her upspeak. I asked her whether she knew what it was and she said no. I remember when I was explaining to her what up speak is, and how it diminishes our credibility, instead of being defensive, she was curious and committed to stopping the upspeak. Given her growth mindset and her ambition, that is exactly what she did. Now, several years later. When I speak with this senior client he raves about her transformation in terms of her executive presence. Avoiding upspeak can make a massive difference, literally in your tone, and generally in your credibility. Upspeak was one of the first things I mentioned recently when I was coaching another future leader. His boss sent him to me for a series of coaching sessions to prepare him for promotion. After immediately diagnosing upspeak, he similarly admitted that he didn’t know what it is, After I explained what Upspeak is and how it diminishes our credibility, he told me he was committed to stop it. We brainstormed how to remind himself. This is not easy is it? Apparently slowing your speech can help you avoid upspeak, but what else can you do? It’s one thing to know what upspeak is.  It’s another to remind yourself to stop.  I guess that goes for many habits we’re trying to change. Anyway, here’s what he did: He took a post-it note and wrote a big question mark on it, with an X through it.  This was his reminder to himself to stop sounding like he was asking Qs.  It worked. In our second coaching session I only had to remind him a few times to avoid upspeak.  In the third session there was no upspeak at all. I’ve got more stories, but you get the idea. Based on my experience coaching folks on upspeak, it seems this is an easy fix with a big upside in terms of your perceived credibility.   Now, on to the second easy fix.   2 of 5 Quick Fixes: Make eye contact  Not establishing eye contact is, in my experience, even more common than Upspeak. Managers at all levels sometimes have a habit of looking around the room. Some people that I’ve coached have a habit of looking up at the ceiling, especially when they’re thinking about something and responding to something and they know everyone’s eyes are on them. But here’s the thing. You know that saying, eye-to-eye?. As in we see each other eye-to-eye… We trust people who make eye contact with us. And when we like people more, we’re more likely to make eye contact with them for longer. So think about the negative signal that you’re sending when you’re avoiding eye contact. Recently, I was coaching a senior banking executive who told me that she is conscious of the fact that she sometimes avoids eye contact and instead looks up at the ceiling. She told me that she feels as if she’s looking into her own brain. This is her almost involuntary response when she’s thinking deeply about what she’s about to say. I saw her do this a few times when we were meeting and then I suggested to her that you are smart enough to still be able to think about things without physically looking into your brain. We had a good laugh about that and she started practicing. And guess what? She was able to improve her eye contact. I’m not talking about staring into someone’s eyes for an uncomfortable length of time. That’s just creepy. I am talking about looking at the person instead of looking around the room. When you’re in person, especially if you’re seated around a meeting table or a boardroom table, try to make sure your chairs are all at the same level. You don’t want to be seated at a pedestal above everybody else, and you certainly don’t want to be sitting lower than everyone else. You want to see people eye-to-eye. I get this question a lot in terms of online meetings. Is it important to stare directly at the camera? This is something that we all had to work on in the early days of the pandemic when we were all working at home all the time and staring at our screens. Here’s my updated take on this question of staring at the camera for online meetings. It’s OK, and in fact it’s a good thing to look around the screen so you can see the expressions in the body language of the people that you’re meeting with. And by now, we’ve been doing this for long enough that we know what you’re doing when your eyes aren’t looking directly at the camera. So don’t worry about that. As I said, whether it’s in person or online , it’s important to scan the room for body language and facial expressions. However. And this is the main point here: when you are making your most important points, when you’re making a final recommendation, when someone asks you what you think, that’s when you should consciously look directly into the camera when you’re in an online meeting. People will non consciously perceive that you’re looking them in the eye and that you can be trusted. So that’s the second easy fix, establishing eye contact. The first one was avoiding upspeak and the 2nd is establishing eye contact, the third easy fix is:   3 of 5 Quick Fixes: Communicating with precision Of all of the easy fixes that I’m listing here, this is the one that senior executives often seek improvement on. Let me tell you what I share with these senior executives. First of all, give yourself a break. The reason you might not be communicating with precision is simply that you’re generous. You’re trying to share everything that you’re thinking about a topic with your audience or with the people with whom you’re communicating. However, If you really want to be a generous, you need to do the work to focus your message. You know the saying, If you try to share everything, they will absorb nothing. However, if you communicate one main point, your audience will understand exactly what your message is. So think about that one key message. Every time you write an e-mail. Every time you run a meeting. Every time you give a speech. Once you yourself are clear on your main message, I suggest, whether your communication is written say in an e-mail or whether it’s verbal. Start with your headline. Think about the online articles that you read and those that you choose not to read, and the significance of the headline. If you’re writing an e-mail, you can be perfectly explicit about this. Start off the e-mail by saying. The purpose of my e-mail is. And tell them. Then get into the details. If you’re leading a meeting, or if you’re delivering a speech, make sure you start with the headline. Then connect everything back to the main message. If you’re introducing yourself in a professional setting, You state your name, Your title and your firm, and then ideally, you identify something important about yourself:  your expertise. Or your value. Or your role in the meeting that’s about to take place. This is you creating your headline. So headlines are a key way to make sure we communicate with precision. They keep us focused. And they ensure that the audience knows what’s to come. As you may have heard me say, no one gets on a bus unless they know where it’s headed. Isn’t that a beautiful metaphor? Tell them where the bus is headed.  Share your headline. Another tactic to help you communicate with precision is to use the power of three. If  you’ve listened to a few Talk about Talk podcasts, you probably know I’m a huge fan of the power of Three. Three is enough to be substantive, but it’s not overwhelming. And that “overwhelming “ point is important here in our focus on communicating with precision. Depending on what your objective is, you might be able to very effectively combine this idea of starting with a headline along with the power of three. Let me give you a few examples of how this might work.  Imagine you are walking into a job interview and the interviewer starts by asking you to share a little bit about yourself. How the heck do you answer that question? Here’s what you do. You start with a headline, and you leverage the power of 3. You say something like this. My name is Katerina. An I am a human resource executive at a pharmaceutical firm. Three things that differentiate me relative to other. Pharmaceutical executives are. A B&C. Let me tell you what I mean by those three things. Then you elaborate on a. You elaborate on B and you elaborate on C. The advantage of this strategy of starting with a headline and leveraging the power of three is that the person who’s listening knows exactly how many points you’re going to make. It’s like you’ve provided them with a road map for your answer to their question. Here’s another example. Say you’re in a meeting and you’re asked. What do you think we should do? Option A or option B. Everyone turns to you and you know you’re in the hot seat. How do you answer this question? You start with your headline and you leverage the power of 3. Something like this.  “Well, there are certainly disadvantages and advantages for both. Otherwise this would be an easy answer. But based on my experience in working with other clients with similar challenges, I think we should go with option B. There are three main reasons for this.” Then you briefly summarize. Reason one, reason 2 and reason 3. Boom. When we practice these types of statements in my coaching sessions. With my clients, sometimes they ask me: what if I can’t think of three things? My answer to them is this. You are smart enough! You will always be able to come up with three things. Even if you don’t have them top of mind when you say “let me provide you with three reasons or three things.” You will be able to come up with a third thing when you’re talking. I promise. OK, so that’s the third easy fix communicating with precision. Try using headlines and leveraging the power of three. Now we’ve covered, avoiding upspeak, establishing eye contact and communicating with precision. The 4th easy fix is:   4 of 5 Quick Fixes: Focus on others As human beings, you could say that we’re all sort of self absorbed. We’re really focused on ourselves most of the time, and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Part of this is self-awareness. self-awareness is important. And if we weren’t thinking about ourselves, we might not survive and we certainly would not thrive. However, focusing on others can elevate our communication and our general effectiveness. This is about being empathetic. This is about listening to the words, but also the subtext, the tone and the body language of others.  Stop thinking about yourself for a moment. This is also about being genuinely curious about what others think, and believing that they add value. I have two suggestions for how you do this.  The first suggestion is to be conscious of pronouns. I’m not necessarily talking about gender pronouns here. Not the she, her, he, him, they pronouns. I’m talking about whether your pronouns are focused on you or on the other people. Ask yourself. How often do you say I? How often do you say we? How often do you say you? I coached a gentleman awhile ago who unfortunately had the reputation of being self absorbed. I encouraged him… NO. I stated point blank that my recommendation to him was that to stop saying I and start saying We and You as much as possible. Another place to check your pronouns: your emails. Whenever I write an e-mail, I always look at the first word of every paragraph to make sure that I’m not focused on what I want and what I need. So that’s the first suggestion. Watch your pronouns.  The second suggestion is to ask questions. Ask lots and lots of questions. If you’re asking questions, you by definition are not focusing on yourself. You are focusing on what other people think and say.  The third suggestion is to track the ratio. Track the ratio of you speaking versus other people speaking in the room. Be mindful of your talk to listen ratio. Make sure that you are speaking at or below your fair share. If there’s only one other person you are speaking with, make sure you are speaking less than 50% of the time. If there’s five people in the room, make sure you’re speaking less than 20% of the time. Be other focused. So that’s the 4th quick fix – be Other Focused.  On to the last quick fix.   5 of 5 Quick Fixes: Control your narrative This one is probably the least quick of the five quick fixes I’ve listed here. But it’s really important. Controlling your narrative is about carefully, strategically choosing the words and phrases you use, ESPECIALLY about yourself. Here’s the thing:  The words coming out of your mouth about yourself are the most direct way you reinforce your personal brand. It’s explicit, because it’s words, and they’re coming out of YOUR mouth. This may be the most credible, most objective, most direct way for people to assess who you are. An obvious example of when this opportunity to control your narrative comes up includes, of course, when you’re introducing yourself.  Controlling your narrative is not about creating an elevator speech about yourself, but it is about consciously considering the words and the phrases that you want to reinforce about yourself. For example, many of the folks that I coach are leaders or aspiring leaders. So I encouraged them to use the word leader, lead or leadership as much as they can. You might introduce yourself as I lead the ABC division at this company or you might say “in that meeting that I led last week.” This is controlling your narrative. Another context when you can control your narrative is when you’re making a point in a meeting, or sharing your opinion.  Here’s what I encourage my clients to do.  Preface your recommendation or your opinion with a statement about your valuable experience or expertise. Let me give you an example. Imagine you’re in a meeting where your team is trying to decide whether to go with option A or option B. Instead of saying, I think we should go with option A. You take a step back and say. Based on my experience in banking. Or. Based on my expertise and focus on strategy and marketing. Or Based on the success of Our team’s previous client engagement…. You get the idea. You’re reinforcing your expertise or your success by sharing where your input is coming from. This is controlling your narrative.  A great example that I have for controlling your narrative came from a Q&A that I did a few years ago where a lawyer in New York talked about how tired she was of being known as an immigrant. Her brand, she said, was that of an immigrant. Yes, she was an immigrant from India. So, I asked her, You’re a lawyer in New York? Yes, in Manhattan. What kind of law? Corporate. OK, I said to her. You’re going to stop saying the word immigrant. Take control of your narrative. Replace Immigrant with GLOBAL EXPERIENCE. And here’s the thing. Your accent is simply a reminder to all of us of your global experience. Here’s your new narrative.  I am a corporate lawyer with a global perspective.  Yah, she was pretty happy with that new narrative. So now I’m asking you. What is there about your valuable experience, about your unique perspective, That you can use to similarly fuel your own narrative? And that’s the fifth of the five quick fixes to boost your communication effectiveness.  Do you remember what they are? The 5 quick fixes include avoiding upspeak. Establishing eye contact. Focusing on the other. Communicating with precision. And controlling your narrative. Now here’s your challenge. Take out a sheet of paper and write down these five quick fixes. Then ask yourself. In which one of these areas am I most deficient? where is there opportunity? and where can I get traction?  then double down, implement the quick fix , and boost your communication effectiveness. If  you enjoyed this podcast episode, I do hope you’ll share with your friends who could also benefit from some quick fixes to boost their communication effectiveness. YOU could also leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it. Don’t forget to signup for my free communication coaching newsletter on the talkabouttalk.com website.  Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon! The post 5 QUICK FIXES to Boost your Communication Effectiveness (ep.154) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Should I share my personal life at work? This is about boundaries and navigating your professional identity. Andrea shares 3 real risks to sharing your personal life at work, then 3 levels of benefits. The balance between sharing personal information and maintaining professional boundaries is delicate and can significantly affect workplace culture, individual well-being, and even your own career trajectory.   CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ TRANSCRIPT Whenever this topic of sharing your personal life at work comes up, I always think of this experience I had about 10 years ago. I was serving as an advisor for a small private firm. I respected the CEO very much. He sent an e-mail out to all of the advisors asking us to submit to him our corporate bios for the website. At the bottom of his email request, he said something like, “Please make sure you include some personal details at the end. We all know that people tend to like us better when we add some personal details to the bottom of our professional bio.” I remember thinking:  Is that true?  Seems possible. I want to see the research! I get this Q a lot in the workshops and coaching I do.  Men and women both ask me about this. Should we talk about our hobbies? Should I mention that I run ultra marathons?? Should I mention that I do stand up comedy on the weekends? Or that I look after my partner’s elderly parents? Should I mention that I have a newborn at home? In this episode, I’m going to share with you what the academic research says about specific reasons that we should or perhaps should not share our private or personal life at work.  The advantages and disadvantages, if you will.  The answer to this question of “should we share our personal life at work?” does not have a simple yes or no answer. I would think of it more as a checklist or a series of considerations. My goal is to help you make informed decisions about whether and what to share about your personal life at work, depending on your PERSONAL context. Sound good? Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast episode number 153, sharing your personal life at work.   In case we haven’t met, let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please call me Andrea! I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I coach communication skills to ambitious executives like you – to elevate your communication, your confidence, and your clarity, so you can establish credibility, and accomplish your career goals. If you go to the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many resources to help you out. There’s information there about one-on-one coaching, online courses, some amazing bootcamps that I run every few months, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, AND, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me every week.  Alright let’s get into this. A few years ago, at the beginning of COVID, I was doing small group personal branding workshops for senior female executives around the world. One brave participant asked how to manage her personal brand at work, particularly in the context of sharing her personal life. She told us all about a recent experience in her new role as a partner in her male-dominated organization. She noticed immediately that the few times when she mentioned her children or family obligations, the room got quiet.  She got a strong signal that talk about your life outside of work was not welcome here. This not uncommon. OK, that was a double negative. This is common. In fact, there’s a name for this. It’s called quote the motherhood penalty, unquote. Researcher Shelly Correll’s work demonstrates how women, in particular, can be disadvantaged by perceptions that their family responsibilities will interfere with work commitments. Have you ever experienced, or maybe wondered whether you were experiencing the motherhood penalty?? I remember when I was in the job market in the last year of my doctoral program, looking for a job as a new faculty member.  I was interviewing at some amazing universities in The US, in Europe and in Canada.  I was married with a 1 year old at the time, and certainly hoping to have more children. I know a lot of women struggle with what to disclose in terms of their family situation. Should I talk about my baby? Never mind my plans to have more children? Should I even wear a ring?  This sounds crazy to me now, but I DID take my wedding ring off for a few interviews. I didn’t want to prime anyone to wonder about my motherhood status. But then I decided if being a mom was a bad thing at any of these universities, then I probably didn’t want to work there anyway. The ring went back on. Wow, I forgot about that whole experience. More recently, I was coaching a woman who has two young children, who asked me whether and how she should tell prospective employers that she’s DONE having kids. That’s an interesting one!  Then, just a few weeks ago, one of my friends, a successful tech entrepreneur, told me that decades ago, she went into a job interview very pregnant. I cannot imagine. She got the job, had the baby, and had a stellar career at that firm for over a decade. That’s a happy story. But this isn’t always so easy, is it? I suppose there are really two questions here, there is one general question about sharing your personal life at work across all dimensions. Talking about your own childhood, where and how you grew up, your hobbies, what you do on weekends, and yes, your family. And then secondly, there’s a question about discrimination against women, and particularly their roles as mothers and how that impacts their professional careers. Understanding that the motherhood penalty is a real thing, and that it may compound any potential negative effects on sharing your personal life at work, I’m going to focus on the first Q.  We’re going to focus more generally in this episode, as I said, on the pros and cons or the advantages and disadvantages of sharing your personal self in professional contexts. At the end of this episode, I’m going to share with you a summary. Almost like a checklist for you to consider when you’re deciding whether and what to share about your personal life at work. So as always, you don’t need to take notes as you’re listening to this podcast. I do that for you! First of all, there’s the summary at the end, and secondly, if you want to read the checklist, you can always find it on the transcript on the Talk About Talk website. OK – we’ve established that this is a very common question that people have – how much and what to share at work. But research also shows that it is an important, a critical question. Research shows that what we share about our personal identity can have at least as much impact on our professional reputation as our expertise and accomplishments at work. Let me say that again. What we share about ourselves personally can impact our professional reputation even more so than things that are more directly related to our professional identity. The balance between sharing personal information and maintaining professional boundaries is delicate and can affect workplace culture, individual well-being, and yes, our career trajectory. Let me start by addressing this Q in the context of your personal brand. For those of you who have listened to previous Talk about Talk episodes focused on personal branding, or maybe if you’ve been to one of my workshops, you know that when I say personal brand, I mean, I mean your whole, complete, authentic Self. Your personal brand includes ALL of the most important elements or traits that comprise you, the whole person. When I’m working with executives to help them articulate their personal brands, we create what I call a personal branding template. In this template, we list their passions, their expertise, their values, their principles, their accomplishments. And so on.  At the bottom of the template, I encourage them to include 3-5 positive and unique parts of their personal identities. Their hobbies, family role, and so on.  The big Q is:   Should we share these personal elements of our personal brand at work?  Should we share every single element in our personal branding template with others? My answer might surprise you. Should we share our whole selves at work?   Absolutely not,   In fact, We shouldn’t share our whole selves with anyone!  It would be overwhelming. If I shared everything with you about me, you’d think I was crazy.  Save everything for your epic biography!  OK, so what should we do?  We should FILTER what elements of our identity that we share.  The keyword here is FILTER. To be clear: we are always the same person. But in different contexts and with different people, We should think about FILTERING what parts of our identity, our brand, what parts of our LIFE we want to share.  This notion of consistent with what Irving Goffman, a famous Canadian born sociologist calls Impression management. Goffman was one of the most influential thinkers in this area of impression management, culminating in his work entitled,  “The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life.”  Goffman provided foundational insights into how we perform roles in various contexts, including, of course, at work. He talks about this concept of “front stage” and “back stage” as a way of thinking about how we manage our professional identities.  I call it filtering. When we’re at work, we might filter out some of our personal life and our personal roles. That doesn’t mean they’re completely eliminated from our entire being, and overtime, of course, we may share more of our personal lives an roles with our coworkers. But generally, we filter out our personal and present our professional traits at work.   And of course vice versa. In our personal life we don’t introduce ourselves typically in terms of our work title and the last work project that we completed.  So I call it filtering, Goffman calls it front stage and backstage.  Let me give you an example. Last year I coached an impressive CEO on this personal brand. One of the many things that I love about coaching ambitious executives on their personal brand is that I get to know people very quickly. If you’re going to be successful at creating an articulating your brand, you have to be pretty open about sharing your passions and your expertise and really every part of your life. Anyway, at the beginning of our 3rd coaching session with this impressive CEO, he started by apologizing for how he dressed, saying he just came back from a run. I said, “oh you run  That hasn’t come up in our conversation.’   “Yes,” he responded. “Actually, I run ultra marathons.” “WHAT? Why hasn’t that come up in the context of your personal brand?” “Oh, I didn’t think it was relevant.” “Of course it’s relevant!  Its positive, it’s unique, it’s impressive, it demonstrates your energy and your discipline, should I go on?” He laughed.  We ended up re-writing his LinkedIn headline to conclude with “avid runner”” and he imported a banner image to his LinkedIn profile that showed him at the starting line of a marathon that he ran. So when this CEO ‘s at work and yes, on his LinkedIn profile, he leads with his leadership expertise and his credentials. These things are front stage. Backstage, he might mention his personal interests, including things like the fact that he’s an avid runner. He doesn’t lad with that. He filters that out, or at least makes it secondary. This is just one of many many conversations I’ve had with clients who are apprehensive about whether and what parts of their personal life they should share in conversations at work, in their corporate bios, or on LinkedIn. So I did some reading – I went through the academic research on the risks and benefits of sharing your personal life at work. I created a list of us of 3 specific risks and 3 ways to think about the advantages of sharing personal life at work. I Yes, of course 3.  Always  The 3 Risks of Sharing your Personal life at work include: Privacy concerns, Reinforcement of stereotypes & biases, and Violating norms.  Let me tell you what I mean by each of these. 1.PRIVACY CONCERNS Obviously sharing personal details can expose you to privacy risks. Consider what information you’re comfortable with people knowing.  This could be about your demographics, your health – physical and mental, your family members, etc.  How much and what do you really want  people to know? This reminds me of a recent experience. A few months ago I was hired by one of the big 5 audit forms to run a series of workshops in person. One of the senior partners stood at the front of the room to kick off the first session by introducing the program, and then introducing me.  She was obviously very well-regarded by the folks in the room, and I could tell she had a good sense of humour.  She made a joke, saying something like, “wow – this is nerve wracking.  I’m up here in the spotlight, formally introducing a COMMUNICATION COACH to all of you. Talk about anxiety! I’m sure I’m doing it all wrong.   Once she formally  introduced me, I thanked her and said, Actually, I can think of something worse than introducing a communication coach. It’s BEING a communication coach and living with three critical teenagers who are watching you carefully, ready to pounce on any communication blunder you make.  Welcome to my world, Claire!” Everyone in the room smiled and laughed. I realized that before I even started talking about the workshop material, they already knew I have three kids. Because of privacy concerns, I never share my kids’ names. Privacy concerns about our children, especially on social media is a topic that we could do a whole episode on. But the point is that whether you’re talking about your demographics (where you live, your age, your family, your socio economic status), also your health status – mentally and physically, and more – and it could be in person, in a workshop or on social media. These are all things that we need to be careful about in terms of privacy concerns. That’s the first risk. The second risk to sharing personal information is that it can 2.REINFORCE STEROTYPES & BIASES Here’s the thing. We’re all looking to for signals from others to interpret who we’re dealing with – including our coworkers. Sometimes the information we share can provide evidence that reinforces a negative stereotype.   Like young mothers. The negative stereotypes include that they are sleep deprived and less loyal and less hardworking than others.  Ugh.  Or like people who grew up a certain country. We sometimes assume they will have particular values or principles or even abilities. These are biased assumptions.  This is an important point: As I said earlier, research shows that people may be more likely to form opinions about you based on personal aspects as opposed to your professional qualifications.  Sometimes this is because of the biases that people may hold, even implicit biases, against some element of your personal background – something that’s not even directly related to your career. Recently in one of my personal branding bootcamps, there was a female CEO who talked about this directly. This CEOs hobby was baking.  She loved baking and she loved giving her cookies and cakes to family, friends, and yes, co-workers. She told us that she was acutely aware of the bias against women in leadership positions, and how bringing cookies to her team at the office might just reinforce her identity as a woman – and maybe a woman who belongs in the kitchen.  YIKES. I have to give her kudos though. She was acutely aware and strategic about the stereotype.  She called it out as she was sharing the cookies. Like: don’t you dare discriminate against me, just because I’m conforming to the female stereotype of being in the kitchen.  Yes, I can bake a mean cookie.  But I’m also successfully leading this team to meet our KPIs! I love it! So that’s the second risk – potential bias.  We’ve  covered privacy concerns and potential bias.  The 3rd risk of sharing personal details is related to boundaries and relevance. It’s about 3.VIOLATING NORMS This is really about conforming to or violating the norms at an institutional level – like the norms associated with your industry or your corporate culture, and also at a contextual level.  Professor Kristie Rogers at Marquette University focuses her research on identity and professional boundaries at work.  Maintaining professional boundaries is crucial for workplace dynamics. Over-sharing or inappropriate sharing of personal information can blur these boundaries, leading to discomfort or conflicts within teams.  And even more so depending on the corporate culture.  Of course!  So there’s the norms of the corporate culture. Of the institution. Then within that one institution, there are many different contexts.  Like if you’re selling something to a new prospective client, versus chatting with a familiar co-worker that you communicate with on a daily basis. Of course, the longer we know someone, the more we tend to share. Here’s a context most of you are familiar with- LinkedIn I remember posting something on LinkedIn years ago. The post was about something related to the art world. (Yes I’m also a painter. Did you know that?) Anyway, an old co-worker – a guy I knew years ago ,commented on the post that I should move it to Facebook. He publicly commented on my post, shaming me for sharing something that wasn’t directly career-related.  In other words, he believed I was violating norms. (By the way – you might be wondering what I did? I PRIVATELY messaged him and explain my rationale.  His response was belligerent. So I blocked him. ) Anyway, here’s a context where the norms are evolving. LinkedIn used to be almost exclusively about job searching.  Now it’s a professional network where people connect on all sorts of topics, including job searching, yes, but also industry thought leadership, mentorship, career progression, professional AND PESRONAL development, and yes, even personal interests. The NORMS of what’s acceptable to post on LinkedIn have evolved. So those are the 3 reasons why you might NOT want to share personal information at work: privacy concerns, biases, and norms. Chances are, if you feel li9ke you messed up by sharing too much, it’s because of one of these three things: privacy issues, reinforcing negative biases, or violating norms.   So what can we do when we do mess up?  Back to our filter metaphor.  We messed up and shared too much.  That’s when we need to MEND our filter.  We can adjust what and how much we share. But that certainly doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t share anything personal at work!  In fact, there are several compelling reasons why we SHOULD share personal things at work.   This idea of the blurred line between personal and professional boundaries is considered by several academic researchers including Kristie Rogers and Shelley Carroll whom I just mentioned, plus Laura Morgan Roberts. Nancy Rothbart and Ashley Martin, just to name a few. Generally, the research highlights that sharing some aspects of your personal identity or personal life at work can BENEFIT us on 3 levels: organizational performance, team cohesion, and individual well-being  So I categorized these benefits into three levels or reasons – there’s the macro or group level, there’s the 1:1 relationship level, and there’s the individual level. Here’s the thing.  Particularly if you’re a leader, you can consider this both for yourself AND for your team.  This is important at both a cultural and an individual level. Starting 1. at a macro level,  We see that by sharing personal stories and experiences, individuals can challenge and reduce stereotypes in the workplace. Yes, this is related to the disadvantage I mentioned to sharing personal details – stereotypes and bias. Shelley Carrell’s research on gender stereotypes, for example, suggests that personal narratives can play a role in changing preconceived notions and biases. It can also improve job satisfaction and even sometimes reduce burnout for everyone in the organization Research also indicates that knowing about our coworkers’ lives outside of work can foster empathy and support within teams. A supportive macro environment like this can also lead to reduced stress and increased job satisfaction. When people are  comfortable being and sharing some of their personal life at work, they can be more authentic and true to their distinct identity. Despite the recent backlash against DEI, the benefits of diversity and inclusion in the workplace are well-documented in academic literature. Sharing personal experiences can help highlight and celebrate diversity, contributing to a more inclusive culture. This relates to Amy Edmondson’s work on psychological safety, where individuals perceptions of the risks of being their true self impacts team performance. Basically this point here is that when the individual feels comfortable being their whole and true self at work, the organization also benefits at a macro level. Makes sense. OK, let’s look at the second level, the relationship level. 2. at a 1:1 relationship level Of course we’ve all noticed that OVER TIME, we share more personal details with our co-workers. And when someone shares something personal, we typically respond by doing that same thing.  This is supported by theories like the Social Penetration Theory, which highlights how over time, gradual self-disclosure helps deepen interpersonal relationships, often leading to improved workplace communication and relationships. We probably don’t need to read the academic research to understand that when people reveal things about themselves, they’re signaling that they trust us and then we in turn reciprocate with trust. The social bond is elevated. Strengthened. Suddenly teamwork and collaboration are much more viable an effective. You’ve probably also noticed overtime that we all look for similarities or things in common with others. Again, this applies for both professional interests, but also, and perhaps even to a greater extent, Personal insights. If you share a personal interest, a hobby, Or maybe you went to the same college or lived in the same city, as someone else. Shared interests and experiences create social bonds. When you share that you grew up on the east coast, or that you play golf, or that you enjoy baking or that you too have young children, you create a connection.  So at a relationship level, you can think of two reasons why you might want to share personal information: Its (1)  to create an environment or relationship characterized by TRUST and (2.) to establish SIMILARITY or things in common.  It’s all about creating connection. Now we’ve looked at the macro level and the relationship level. The third and last level to consider in terms of the benefits of sharing personal information is the  3. Individual level.  This is about establishing your professional identity or your personal brand. Sharing personal interests or achievements can reinforce that you are a well-rounded individual, and perhaps even highlight diverse skills that might be tangentially related to your career success. A great example of this is the CEO client that I was talking about earlier in this episode, who was an avid runner, he ran ultra marathons. Clearly, this hobby isn’t directly related to his professional expertise. But it does share that he is well-rounded, disciplined and has a lot of energy. At an individual level, sharing personal information can make you more relatable to your audience. It adds a human touch to your professional accomplishments, making you seem more approachable. Personally, I might share things like how I workout most days at noon, online with a bunch of women – an amazing routine that we started at the beginning of covid.  Or how I love painting.  Or – here’s one.  I have three extremely tall children.  Depending on the context and the people or person with whom I’m communicating, these insights can make people feel closer to me or simply to signal that I am a real human with a real life. These personal insights are mostly backstage when I’m in my role as an executive communication coach.  But they’re still there, and I might decide to share them, depending on the context.  Ask yourself: Is there some outside interest that you pursue, that you might want to share? It doesn’t have to be over the top. It doesn’t have to be an extreme sport or something like running ultra marathons. Just something that showcases you as a well-rounded human. Maybe it’s artistic, Or maybe it’s athletic. Or maybe it’s your family. Unique hobbies, interests, or aspects of your background can make you more relatable and maybe even more memorable. There you go – 3 risks and 3 levels of benefits of disclosing personal information at work.  Let me summarize and remind you what they are.  This is your checklist.  The risks of sharing personal information at work include (1.) privacy concerns, (2.) reinforcement of negative stereotypes and bias, and (3.) violating norms. The benefits are plenty, so I encourage you to consider them at 3 levels: (1.)At an institutional level, (2.) at a relationship level, and (3.) most obviously, at a personal level, in terms of reinforcing your POSITIVE and UNIQUE personal brand. So now what do you do with all this? My suggestion is that you carefully and strategically share elements of your personal identity in professional contexts. Now then, here’s my challenge to you. Take some time to identify 3-5 elements of your personal life that you might share at work.  Consider carefully the risks (the privacy concerns, negative stereotypes & bias, and violating norms) along with the benefits (at an institutional level, at a 1:1 relationship level and at an individual level). And if you’re a leader, remember that you are role model and how you respond when others share personal information, never mind when and what personal information you yourself share, has a significant impact on your organization.  Remember, we should certainly strive to be authentic. Always. We are our true selves.  But that doesn’t mean we are 100% transparent. We don’t share everything with everyone.  Goodness no! Alright that’s it.  If  you enjoyed this podcast episode, I do hope you WILL  SHARE IT with your friends and maybe even leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it. If you want to connect, I’d love to hear from you. I’d love to hear what you thought about this episode, and maybe ideas for future episodes. You can connect with me on LinkedIn or on the talkabouttalk.com website and send me a message.  Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon! The post Should I Share My PERSONAL Life at Work? (ep.153) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Are you a giver or a taker? Andrea shares evidence for why being generous can be an advantage plus 5 specific suggestions for how you can be generous at work starting today. CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/ RESOURCES “Influence” by Robert Cialdini – https://amzn.to/3M1ScfA Talk About Talk episodes with Sharon Mah-Gin: Ep.67 – Online Networking https://www.talkabouttalk.com/67-online-networking-with-sharon-mah-gin/ Ep.107 – Communication Skills for JOB-SEEKERS https://www.talkabouttalk.com/107-job-seekers/ Ep.146 – Resume Best Practices https://www.talkabouttalk.com/resume-best-practices-with-executive-recruiter-sharon-mah-gin-ep-146/ Academic Papers: “Everyday Prosociality in the Workplace: The Reinforcing Benefits of Giving, Getting, and Glimpsing”  Chancellor, Margolis, Bao, Lyubomirsky  Aknin, Lara B., Elizabeth W. Dunn, Ashley V. Whillans, Adam M. Grant, and Michael I. Norton. “Making a Difference Matters: Impact Unlocks the Emotional Benefits of Prosocial Spending.” Journal of Economic Behavior & Organization 88 (April 2013): 90–95. “Social Motivation: Costs and Benefits of Selfishness and Otherishness” Crocker, Canevello, Brown, Annual Review of Psychology TRANSCRIPT I’ve been hearing the word GENEROUS a lot lately.  In different contexts. So I started to take notice. I proactively identified situations or contexts where I saw people being generous – or being selfish.  And I identified people in my network who are generous – the givers, versus the takers.   What about YOU? Are you a giver or a taker?  Of course we like to think of ourselves as givers, not takers.  But does it actually matter?  I mean, I see a lot of selfish people out there doing pretty well.  Am I right?  Yes, we are wired to be self-interested.  If we weren’t, we would not survive. But that does NOT mean that we always ACT in a way that is self-serving.  Research shows that we are very capable of acts of kindness, compassion and yes – generosity, even when we might be acting against our best interests.  Research also shows there are great benefits of being generous. In this episode, you’re going to learn about the power of generosity and what they call “prosocial behavior”, specifically at work. I’m going to tell you what the research says about the impact of being a giver versus a taker.  Spoiler alert: being a taker might benefit you in the short term, but that’s about it. You want to be a taker.  I’m also going to provide you with five specific ways that you can be more generous at work, starting right now. Are you ready? Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast episode number 151, Generous Communication,  This is where I provide you with the evidence for – and examples of – when you should be a giver – not a taker. In case we haven’t met, let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please call me Andrea! I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I coach communication skills to ambitious executives like you – to elevate your communication, your confidence, and your clarity, so you can establish credibility, and accomplish your career goals. If you go to the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many resources to help you out. There’s information there about one-on-one coaching, online courses, some amazing bootcamps that I run every few months, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, AND, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me every week.  Alright let’s get into this. I told you that I’ve been proactively identifying situations or contexts where I saw people being generous – or being selfish.  And I identifying people in my network who are generous – the givers, versus the takers.   One of the most generous people I know is Sharon Mah-Gin. Sharon’s a successful executive recruiter, and she generously shared her on several Talk About Talk episodes focused on topics like networking and job seeking. Sharon and I also co-lead some corporate workshops together in Toronto.  One of the most impactful insights I learned from Sharon is how we should “add value” or be generous when we’re networking. You know that icky feeling you get when you hear the word “networking”? Well, instead of thinking about networking as selling or being selfish, walk into every networking reception or lunch or whatever with the philosophy of adding value and being generous.  Suddenly that icky feeling is gone! Sharon is very very compelling in her delivery of this message.  People often remark immediately after out workshops and even afterwards, they tell us that this insight of being generous and adding value when networking CHANGES EVERYTHING. One important caveat here. And this is really important. It’s subtle, but important. In the workshops that Sharon and I have conducted on networking, we noticed that many people equate networking with reciprocity. You do a favour for someone in your network, they feel obliged to reciprocate. (Hold the book.) Yes. Of course, the psychology of influence. Does. Highlight reciprocity as A key motivational factor. Reciprocity is one of Cialdini’s now 7 influence factors. That said, a mindset of imposing reciprocal obligations is anything but generous.  In other words, don’t do it.  Focus instead on creating value and being generous.  Got it? If someone does a favor for us or gives us something, we feel obligated to reciprocate. That said, if you go out. With this. Motivation in mind of encouraging people to feel their indebted to you, then this whole. Idea of being generous can backfire people., we noticed that a lot of po  Reciprocity – yes it is a common motivation, The truth is that while shifting your networking mindset away from selfish connections toward providing value benefits you more than just in being a more enthusiastic and effective networker.  There’s plenty of research supporting how generosity can benefit you.  It’s almost ironic, right? There’s the research that you’ve probably heard about that shows how people who give money benefit in terms of psychological well-being.  In other words, it improves their own satisfaction – it makes them happy.  Sometimes even happier than the receiver of the money.  And it’s not just being generous in terms of money.  This also applies to other ways of being generous, other ways of giving.  What we’re talking about here is what psychologists call “pro-social behaviors”.   What’ exactly is prosocial behavior?  Well it’s not exactly the opposite of anti-social behavior. In essence, it’s a fancy term for actions intended to benefit others. This could be as simple as holding the door open for someone. That’s a pro-social behavior.  Another example of pro-social behavior in a work context could be when a colleague steps in without being asked, offering to lighten your load or to stay late and help you finalize the project. That’s giving without the expectation of immediate return, and it speaks volumes about workplace camaraderie. Or consider the open sharing of knowledge, like in a team meeting, when someone shares a new technology or an app that benefits your workflow. That’s pro-social. It’s about benefiting others or a group, not just yourself. Prosocial behavior could also show up in terms of emotional support. When you’re having a tough time, and someone offers to listen or talk it out with you, that’s pro-social. However, not everyone around us is so generous –  so noble, are they? Let’s talk about the takers for a minute. I’m going to imagine that is NOT you! Imagine a co-worker who consistently takes the best projects for themselves, leaving the scraps for you and everyone else. Or the one who’s always first to claim credit for a team’s success but nowhere to be found when there’s blame to be shared. And how about the infamous information hoarders? They keep valuable insights to themselves, thinking it will make them indispensable. But in reality, this just fosters distrust and it’s counterproductive. I’ve worked with these selfish people. The takers And my clients tell me stories about these people all the time. And at ALL levels. It’s shocking! I told you at the very beginning of this episode that I started paying attention to real examples of generosity that I came across.  Identifying people in my network as givers and takers. I have two very contrasting examples to share with you. Recently I was coaching a talented female executive on her personal brand. We were listing her superpowers and she mentioned that she has an incredible network.  Like she knows a LOT of influential people.  Then she said “I’m tired of introducing people to others in my network, then watching them benefit.  I’m going to stop doing that.   WAIT.  WHAT? I was careful in my response. I did not mention my fascination with givers and takers,  Instead, I told her about the research on generosity and prosocial behavior,  I asked her whether the introductions were costing her anything?  NO. I asked her whether the other people were grateful for the valuable introductions she made. YES, she answered.  Well, there you go. You actually benefitted in some way, in terms of your social capital or your personal brand, your reputation as someone who’s connected AND generous! We talked about it for a while and decided that these introductions and connections  were a good thing to keep doing. I still think about that conversation. I hope I nudged her over from being a taker to being more of a giver. The second example is a woman I met on LinkedIn. She’s become a client. Let’s call her Nicole. Nicole was generously liking and commenting on all my posts.  Like ALL of them.  NICE!  Thankyou! Then I was running one of my LinkedIn Lives and she messaged me: “Can I help you with anything for the LinkedIn live?  I was stumped.  And honestly a bit confused.  Like – was she looking for a job?  Then I realized – she’s just being generous. I asked her if she’s mind re-posting my invitation to the LinkedIn Live to HER network.  She did so instantly, And graciously. I can tell you what she also did.  She commented herself in my mind as a giver.  As a generous good human.  And I won’t forget it. So, what does the research say about all this? Research – mostly in organizational behavior and psychology tell us that generosity pays off, not just in “good vibes” but in concrete outcomes.  I’ve included links in the shownotes to some of the papers that highlight these benefits. Let me summarize with four of the main benefits right ow. Benefit number one: generosity improves team performance. When people share and help, teams achieve more. Of course they do! And imagine the impact on your corporate culture when you’re generous.  Especially if you’re a leader. You are a role model, modeling generosity and there’s a ripple effect through the organizational culture. Benefit two: being generous makes us happier. Giving releases endorphins, creating a phenomenon known as the “helper’s high.” This has been shown in research where people are giving money. But them also other contexts, like doing favors, and so on. Thirdly, generous people build stronger networks. This sis a HUGE one.  This is my friend executive recruiter Sharon. This is about being generous with your connections in a way that provides value for them. This is about building up goodwill with many people.  And last but not last, the fourth benefit of being generous is that it enhances your personal brand – your reputation.  Here’s your personal branding homework: think about your personal brand superpowers: your passions, your expertise, and your skills. These are your currencies, but currency you can share. Sharing your passions, your expertise and your skills with others is not a zero sum game.  When you share, you don’t lose. In fact, you benefit.  Right? Now ask yourself, who would benefit from you sharing these things? Then go.   Give.   Be generous. Be a giver, not a taker. You might be wondering how. I know this all sounds great, right?  But HOW, Andrea? HOW exactly can I be generous?  I’ve got a list for you of 5 specific ways that you can be generous. First, the obvious. It’s sharing resources with others, It might be money, software, staffing capability, office space.  Things you have that others don’t have, but that would benefit them. So that the first way you can be generous. Share resources.  The second way is Providing expertise and knowledge. This is about sharing technical insight or advice. It could be one on one.  Or it could be publicly – as in sharing thought leadership.  Yes this is one I do through this podcast. One of my strategies is to generously share thought leadership about communication skills. But it doesn’t have to be at that level. This might be showing someone how to do something.  Like coaching them.  That’s the third way to be generous: Mentoring and coaching – As in supporting someone’ s personal development. This could be someone inside your organization or outside, and it could be formally or informally, it could be a one-off or ongoing.  But coaching and mentoring is a fantastic way to be generous.  It’s also a great way to reinforce your status – your brand – as a leader. The 4th way to be generous at work is introducing your colleagues to valuable connections – This is networking at it’s best. Introduce your peer to someone more senior in the organization that might help them out.  Or introduce your salesperson to a prospect – someone you know who might become a customer. Or introduce one of your connections to a hiring manager to help them get a job.  You see, the options are limitless! And the 5th and last way to be generous is Recognizing others – Praising, acknowledging and appreciating the achievements and contributions of others. Ideally publicly, like during meetings or on professional social media platforms. Also providing job references, or writing recommendations or even endorsing posts or skills on LinkedIn or other professional platforms to enhance their profile and career opportunities. There are many ways to generously recognize others.  And really – it doesn’t cost you anything to do so, does it? Now that I’ve done the research for this episode, I’m so glad I did.  Now I’m motivated more than ever to be generous  To be a giver, not a taker. Let me VERY briefly summarize. 5 suggestions from me for how to be generous at work.  DO you remember what they are? And then Based on the academic research, four benefits of being generous. The 5 suggestions for how you can be generous at work include  Sharing resources with others,  Providing expertise and knowledge.  Mentoring and  introducing your colleagues to valuable connections   Recognizing others – Praising, providing references, or writing recommendations you get the idea. And the four benefits of being a generous giver: Benefit number one: generosity improves team performance.  Benefit two: being generous makes us happier.  Thirdly, generosity helps us build stronger networks.  And the fourth benefit of being generous is that it enhances your personal brand – your reputation. Don’t forget your PB homework: Think about your personal brand superpowers: your passions, your expertise, and your skills. Then ask yourself, who would benefit from you sharing these things? Then share them! Alright that’s it. I’m going to guess that you were already a giver, not a taker. But I hope the stories and the evidence I mentioned here will make you even more conscious of the power of generosity and your opportunity to demonstrate pro-social behavior. You can make a very positive impact.   If you enjoyed this podcast episode, I hope you’ll GENEROUSLY share it with your friends and maybe even leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it. If you want to connect, I’d love to hear from you. You connect with me on LinkedIn and message me there.  You can also go to the talkabouttalk.com website and send me a message there.  Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon! The post GENEROUS COMMUNICATION: Are You a Giver or a Taker? (ep.152) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Are you a powerful storyteller? Andrea interviews strategy and storytelling expert Rob Tait, who shares examples of and suggestions for great stories. These insights apply to stories from and about both product brands (marketing) and people brands (personal branding). NOTE: the accompanying free “Storytelling Tip Sheet” includes Rob’s 9-step process for creating compelling presentations and lots more to help you become a better storyteller.   Free “STORYTELLING TIP SHEET”: https://talkabouttalk.com/storytelling   CONNECT WITH ANDREA & TALK ABOUT TALK LinkedIn:  Andrea –  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk about Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Website: TalkAboutTalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter:  https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@talkabouttalkyoutube/   RESOURCES Rob Tait: LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/robtait/ Email – robmtait@gmail.com Website – https://www.taitstrategicstorytelling.com/ ep.11 STORYTELLING with Harvard Professor Jerry Zaltman – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/11-storytelling-with-harvard-professor-author-jerry-zaltman/ Ken Robinson TedTalk “Do Schools Kill Creativity?” – https://youtu.be/iG9CE55wbtY?feature=shared Adam Grant – https://adamgrant.net/ Terry O’Reilly Under The Influence – https://terryoreilly.ca/undertheinfluence/ Jeopardy podcast – https://www.jeopardy.com/listen/inside-jeopardy Volkswagen ad – https://youtu.be/SBNSWjkFrOM?feature=shared Nancy Duarte – https://www.duarte.com/ Steve Jobs –  https://youtu.be/MnrJzXM7a6o?feature=shared TRANSCRIPT Well, hello there and welcome to talk about Talk Podcast Episode #151.  The Power of Storytelling with Rob Tait. Yes, this is episode #151. I’ve been doing this for a while. I remember way back in the early days, when I was learning the craft of podcasting, I used to listen to a podcast called,  The school of podcasting with Dave Jackson. I listened to it every single week. I considered him to be my podcasting coach. Kind of like the way I hope that I am your executive communication coach. Anyway, one day I finally got the nerve to email him, and then he ended up featuring me on his podcast a couple of times.    Before one of the interviews when he interviewed me, he asked me to suggest a specific TAT podcast episodes that will give him some idea of what I do. I remember this. Viscerally. I suggested that he listened to podcast episode number 58, mentally preparing to communicate with confidence. In our conversation before the interview, he said to me, I listened to that episode you suggested. You definitely know what you’re doing. That podcast was full of exceptional storytelling. I remember thinking: he didn’t tell me I was a great podcaster. He didn’t tell me I was a great communication coach. He DID say I was a great storyteller.    Since then, I’ve become acutely aware of the impact of storytelling. I’ve noticed in my own business that the workshops where I really knocked it out of the park , Those are the workshops where I was telling stories. I also know that the podcast episodes that get the most downloads, including that episode on communicating with confidence, those are the episodes that are full of stories.    Evidence regarding the positive impact of storytelling goes on and on. That’s not what this episode is about. We’re past the point of establishing how storytelling is important.  I think you get that. Otherwise you wouldn’t be listening to this episode! This episode is about helping you craft storytelling in your communication.    You may be a marketer, looking for stories to tell about your brand.    You might be looking to tell stories about your own experience, creating your narrative around your personal brand.   You might be looking for a story to weave into an important presentation that you’re preparing for.   Or you may be looking to generally improve the effectiveness of your communication through storytelling.   The guest expert I’m about to introduce you to is going to help you with all  this. Are you ready?   Welcome to the Talk About Talk podcast episode number 150, The Power of Storytelling   In case we haven’t met, let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki and I’m your executive communication coach. Please call me Andrea! I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, where I coach communication skills to ambitious executives like you – to elevate your communication, your confidence and your clarity, so you can establish credibility and then accomplish your career goals.   If you go to the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many resources to help you out. There’s information there about one-on-one coaching, online courses, some amazing bootcamps that I run every few months, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, AND, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter. That newsletter is your chance to get free communication coaching from me every week.    Alright let’s get into this.   You’re about to hear my interview with Rob Tait. Rob is the ideal person. To seek expertise from in terms of storytelling for a couple of reasons.    First of all, Rob’s background. I met him when we were working together on advertising. I was a brand manager at Kraft Foods and he was a creative director at the advertising agency. He’s the one who created the stories around the brands that I was managing. So that’s the first reason. He knows how to tell brand stories,    The second reason robs insight is so significant here is that now for a living, what Rob does is through his firm “Tait Strategy & Storytelling.” He has lots of pragmatic and well tested advice to share with us.    And 3rd, as you’ll hear me mention in the interview, Rob. When I was working with Rob, I noted several times that he was typically the smartest person in the room. He’s very wise. Humble and wise.   Here’s how this episode is going to go. 1st, I’m going to briefly introduce Rob and then we’re going to get right into the interview. And then at the end, I’m going to summarize with three, yes, of course, ALWAYS! three of the main thoughts or themes that I want to reinforce for us.   Before I introduce Rob, I just want to highlight two important things about this episode in particular.    The first one is that based on the amazing insights from this interview, I decided to create a one page “Storytelling tip sheet” that I hope you will download and use to boost your own storytelling skills. The info in this storytelling tip sheet are based on the insights that Rob shared, plus previous episodes that I’ve done on storytelling, plus my own experience and coaching on storytelling.   Here’s what you need to do. Go to talkabouttalk.com/storytelling. And then you can download this one pager. I’ll remind you about that again at the end.   The second thing about this episode that stands out for me is the long list of valuable resources that Rob mentions. If you go to the show notes for this episode on the Talk About talk.com website or on your podcast app, you’ll see links to all of these resources, including the many ads he mentions, the experts he mentions, like Nancy Duatre, and his favorite podcasts. So please do that. You have two things to do then, right? First of all go to talkabouttalk.com/storytelling to get your storytelling tip sheet and secondly check out the show notes and in particular the resources that I listed for you there.    Alright, let me introduce Rob. Because Rob is such an eloquent writer, and former creative director, I thought I would be doing a disservice if I edited or paraphrased his bio. So I’m going to read to you exactly what he sent me. Here goes.   A seasoned marketing communications veteran, Rob is a strategist, writer, and swashbuckling storyteller who helps clients make the complex simple, and the simple compelling.   As a passionate practitioner of content marketing and brand building (and a former advertising Creative Director), Rob has worked with some of the most successful companies in the world creating and executing marketing programs that span content, digital, CRM, experiential, and traditional advertising. Currently Rob is working with the Facebook for Creator’s brand marketing team in New York. Past clients include McDonald’s, Hilton Worldwide, Apple, Roche Biotech, Microsoft, Mazda, and Kraft. (That’s where we met, when I was a brand manager at Kraft)   Founder and principal at Tait Strategy & Storytelling, Rob has also held senior creative roles at BBDO, McCann and Redwood CC. Rob’s reputation is that of a highly strategic creative thinker, a deft writer, and an engaging presenter who delivers engaging, meaningful, and memorable stories that connect with audiences, build brands and drive results. ANDREA  0:00   Thank you so much, Rob, for joining us here today to talk about the power of storytelling.  My pleasure. Glad to be here.  So Rob, you and I met years and years ago, when we were working together on advertising. And so I thought that’d be a great place for us to start. Can you share with us a few of your ideas about why storytelling is so effective in the context of brands? ROB  0:29   Sure, there’s a couple of things that go on. Really, just two. So the first thing is, is like, we’re actually hardwired to love stories. You know, if you heard in your good story, your pulse quickens the eyes dilate, those old sailings, like I was on the edge of my seat or, you know, made me cry like a baby. So we actually just sort of their inherent in enough, then you think about oral tradition, going back 1000s of years, all three stories. The second thing is a little bit more practical from a brand standpoint. And that’s that stories allow us to engage emotionally. And when you look at the way people make decisions, they generally make a decision, they act based on emotion, they then will use reason to post rationalize what they acted on. So if you’re engaging somebody emotionally with a story, you’re more able to get them to actually take an option. So from a marketing standpoint, you want somebody to buy something, you really need to engage them emotionally, they got to feel something that’s what brands are all about. Brands are about, what do I What value do I see in that product or service? What values do they hold? So that’s sort of the basis of why stories are so powerful in marketing and for brands. ANDREA  1:37   Okay, so to help make this a little bit real for the listeners, can you share with us some examples of brands that are doing a great job of storytelling. ROB  1:49   And, you know, a lot of brands are not, that’s the funny thing. But historically, Apple, Apple have been great storytellers. And, you know, you can go back to, you know, 20 years to the iopc. I’m a Mac campaign that really launched iMac into the binocular after the 1990s were disastrous for Apple, to even some of the local or student some of the latest iPhone 15 ads, which are great. But right. Currently, the one that sort of pops to mind is Volkswagen. It’s got a couple of ads out there right now, which are great stories. And what’s interesting, they’ve clearly been created with a global audience in mind, because they use no dialogue. So there’s one with you know, you see a guy getting all dolled up, sort of, like 1970s, he’s got the, you know, like the obesity roller haircut, he’s tagged himself, he’s got these short shorts on, he’s got an old tank top on any poses in front of his brand new Volkswagen, and his wife takes a picture. And then you know, you see them packaging it up and driving, and they show up at his father’s house. And he takes them gives them you know, as a present to his father, this picture, and we see a picture of the Father, in 1970s, dressed like the Son is dressed now with the short shorts and the tank top and the city ruler haircut in front of his Volkswagen from the 70s. And you know, that, like, it’s endearing, it’s a great story. It talks about new products, it talks about quality old products, talks about people being in love with the brand because it stays in the family. So that’s a really good recent example of stories. ANDREA  3:27  So as you were describing the apple ads, and the different versions, they have been great storytellers over the year, one thing that occurred to me and I’m interested to get your take on this. You said, starting out with the I’m a Mac, I’m a PC story. And then we’re like, is that really a story? And actually, like I have an opinion about that it is, but it depends on how you define storytelling. Right? One thing that I tell my clients when I’m coaching them, you know, is to tell stories whenever they can, for the reasons that you said at the very beginning. And I said, but don’t be don’t feel overwhelmed by that, because stories don’t need to be epic. It doesn’t have to be like introduced the main character. Right. So please, elaborate. ROB  4:24   Well, for one thing, Apple had been great storytellers. You know, before it was funny, because Apple did not do well in the 1990s. But some of the best advertising in the 1990s were were Apple ads. And, of course, you know, the the historic Superbowl ad what, which launched Macintosh in 1984. Right. You know, that’s considered one of the greatest commercials of all time, but ANDREA  4:47   I just interrupt. I would say that that is an epic story, right? Yes. But they don’t have to all be epic stories to be effective. ROB  4:55   No, really what makes a story is is a structure Oh, Right. So if you think of, and, you know, like when I talk about presentations, I talk a lot about structure of presentations at work a story arc, and, but essentially a story arc, you know, has exposition. So you’re setting something up, you have rising action, climax, falling action, and then you do know denouement, or you know, resolution. And so if you think of the Iowa Mac on a PC, you know, you always start with an exposition, PC has got a problem, right? Stories are about problems and solutions. And then and, you know, they’re sort of the antagonist. The hero is, is Mac. And you know, so the problem escalates, Mac as a solution, or offers a key differentiating benefit to being on a Mac versus a PC. And then there’s usually a nice little button to close it off at the end. So it calls a nice story arc. So ANDREA  5:50   the classic story is the hero’s journey. Right? Yeah. So yeah. So I was just going to ask is, is that story follows the story arc arc that you it’s one version of the story arc, right, that you just described? ROB  6:12   Yeah, I mean, the thing about Hero’s Journey is that if you get caught up on a hero’s journey, because you hear or hear a hero’s quest, you hear about that a lot is, you know, a story archetype. So if you if you start out thinking, oh, I want to create a tragedy, or I want to create a comedy, or, you know, you’re gonna get caught up, you want the story to emanate authentically, from whatever pitch you’re making, and especially in branded marketing, right? But you want to create characters, you know, and you do want to, if you can have a hero, you always want to have a protagonist stories have to have a protagonist, the product can be a protagonist, you know, and the problem your product solves can be the antagonist can be the villain. ANDREA  6:49   So let’s switch a little bit to storytelling as an executive. So I was gonna say, as a person, but actually in the context of being an executive, right? So you’re either telling a story about your career, or you might be telling a story about the product that you’re selling. So you work with a lot of a lot of creators at meta, right? And you do partnerships with creators? So how does this translate, I guess, I mean, we as humans are storytellers, we as executives are storytellers. And then brands, we as humans, create stories around brands, are there are there important distinctions that we should be keeping in mind between the different types of stories depending on what the context is? ROB  7:39   No, I don’t think so. I think it really you look at you look at structure. So when you talk about like when I’m working with meta, the part of the meta that I work with deals with creators, specifically Facebook brand, for creators. So in that case, there’s sort of two parts to that. There’s Facebook, trying to support creators, and providing them training on how to become better storytellers. Although most creators are naturally very good storytellers. That’s often what they’re, they’re doing. And you know, whether they’re, you know, they’ve got a smaller yoga studio, and they’re using content, and being a creator to build their business, or build awareness, or they’re a baker or they’re a musician, they’re generally naturally pretty good storytellers. What I usually get involved in is working with executives inside internally, to make them better storytellers. So that when they’re communicating with creators or organizations outside of meta, that they’re using storytelling as part of the way they pitch whatever they’re trying to pitch, whether they’re trying to cool, yeah, trying to drive some kind of metric. That’s good for the, you know, good for Metis business. ANDREA  8:47   Okay, so I buy that there’s, there’s no, you know, major distinction that I’m sure they’re minor minor tweaks, but major distinction depending on the context and or the source of the story. You said, naturally, good storyteller. There are some naturally good storytellers create and craters may tend to be that maybe they have a great story is in their quest to become a creator. Right. So what makes for a great, it’s subtly different from what makes for a great story, what makes for a great storyteller? Like, who are the folks that are great, what are the skills that they have? ROB  9:23   Um, that’s actually tough, because it’s really, it’s really tenuous, I don’t, I’m not sure what makes a good storyteller, except for a couple of things. Generally, they’re very authentic. Right? They’ve actually believed the words they’re saying, they have passion for what they’re talking about. You know, and they think more in they think more about their audience. Which is interesting because if you’re if you’re actually talking about, you know, within the business context of creating using storytelling as part of a presentation, when in the skills, things that I teach, the first thing I say you need to do is AUDIENCE Do audience analysis. So who you’re talking to? Right? You know, what are their pain points? What do they think of you right now? What do you want them to think of you all those sorts of things. But it’s really hard to say what gives a person that sort of natural ability to have a cadence when they’re trying to tell you something, where they’re going to SET set up a proposition, you know, and then they’re gonna build, you know, either through facts or benefits or whatever to say, again, here’s the solution. And then sort of, and now, this is how we’re going to, you know, execute on that solution. And that’s it. So that’s that rising story arc, that exposition that rising action, falling action and resolution. ANDREA  10:38   Got it? That’s, that’s fair. You said cadence, I might, I might dig into that a little bit. So you said, three of the criteria that make great that, that are, I guess, common amongst storytellers, three things love it, the power of three, authenticity, passion, and focus on the audience. And I was like, those are all great things for storytellers. But those are all actually great things for anyone who’s communicating anytime. And in particular, when you’re giving a formal presentation, right? If you are authentic, passionate, and you know your audience, almost almost every time you’re going to nail it. So So then let’s shift then to what makes for a great story beyond the arc. Right? So what are the criteria that make some stories better than others? So I can imagine that one of the questions you probably get when you’re doing your training is, I was going to tell this story. Or I might tell this other story, which one should I tell Rob? And how do you decide which stories are worth telling? Okay, ROB  11:43   two quick things. Just going back to what you said about you know, great communication, great communicators, I would contend that you cannot be a great communicator without also being a great storyteller. Oh, I ANDREA  11:55   love it. Yeah, Rob, you’re gonna be quoted on that you’re gonna be quoted. ROB  12:01   Great. Now to talk about, oh, shoot, I lost my train of thought. I got the ADHD and me right, you said something, and I just can’t let it go that making the point I wanted to make. ANDREA  12:17   So So could you repeat my question? Yeah, the question is, if, if we are all of these things, and someone comes to you with two different stories, how do you identify what stories are more, quote, unquote, were worth telling? ROB  12:31   Perfect. Okay. That’s easy. Because again, I’m going to do this in the context. Because I think with business people, where storytelling becomes the most important is in the presentation. Right? Okay. And you doesn’t mean that you’re mean doesn’t mean that you have to be standing up a group of people with a slide deck behind you, it could mean that you’re in a lunch, and you’re pitching somebody an idea, you’re still presenting. So I would say that with every presentation, you have an objective. So if you’re vetting, saying, you know, what story, should I tell you no story A or story B, you vet that against your objective? What is going to be more persuasive to getting somebody taking the action that you want them to take? So ANDREA  13:09   relevance? And yes, I guess, relevance, I was gonna say persuasion, but the persuasion is the outcome. It’s you need it to be absolutely relevant to your objective. Right? Absolutely. ROB  13:21   And again, if I’m going through, I have this nine steps that, you know, I teach people to follow when they’re creating a presentation. The first one I mentioned was audience analysis. The second one is, set your theme or set your objective. You know, I’m Who am I talking to what I want them to do. That’s number one. That’s step two. Notice we haven’t opened up PowerPoint. Number one mistake people make when they say, Hey, I want you to give a presentation as they go in. They open up PowerPoint. That’s Step five, right?  ANDREA  13:47   Yeah. Yeah, I agree. 100%. I, I usually flip your one and two, but I’m in agreeance. With you, right? You need to have What’s your main point? Or what’s your objective? And then really understand who you’re talking to? And then we get into fleshing out and then eventually, it’s the PowerPoint slides. Yeah. Yeah. How many people say, I think in PowerPoint, have you ever heard Have you ever had books meta say that to you? Well, I think PowerPoint. Well, it’s interesting. ROB  14:17  Step three is collecting information. And the way they collect information is they, you know, to say think in PowerPoint, they go back and they start collecting all this past slides that have data points that they want to make, or, uh, you know, the features and benefits, they want to highlight whatever that is. But they still have yet Not yet. figured out what story they want to tell they’ve got the information collected, but then they need to go to Step four, which is okay, what story am I going to tell I’m gonna set the narrative? Right. ANDREA  15:46   You know, I never thought about this when I was working with you, Rob, I shared in the introduction, how I always felt like you were the smartest guy in the room. I always thought you were this. I want I want to say that publicly. I thought you were compared to the Vice President and the director that I was working with in my firm and the other folks that the client service folks at the advertising agency, I always thought you were the smartest person in the room. So it was your ability, I think, and now that I’m talking to you to create a story around a brand, given a bunch of data and objectives that we were giving you, right? I mean, you can agree, yes, maybe that? Unknown Speaker  16:27   Yes. So ANDREA  16:31   I guess we’ve highlighted kind of what makes for a great storyteller. And what makes for great story, how to choose a story. What are the most common mistakes that you see folks making? When they are trying to incorporate storytelling into their communication? ROB  16:51   Often will not often, but the story gets in the way, what they’re really trying to say, because they haven’t gone that they haven’t gone through the due diligence, of saying, Here’s my objective. And then everything after that should be going does this further my objective? Because the story further my objective? Or is the story not relevant? So you think about, like a lot of the stuff that we met, it’s all product based. And so a lot of product people, they, they’re engineers, they’ve been involved in creating these incredible features. This product can do this can do that it can do this. And they’re very excited about it. I mean, it’s they’ve worked so hard on it, they’re passionate about it, and their audience doesn’t care, one lick about their features, their economy, and their audience cares about what’s in it for me, what does it do? What’s the benefit? So I would say in that case, I mean, that’s a sort of an example of where they think they’re telling a story, but they’re really just giving you a list of features. If you start thinking, Okay, what is the feature do to a person? How does it help? Right now you start to naturally bring in storytelling, because a benefit solves a problem. Okay, the minute I set up a problem, and then I create an arc to solve that problem, I’m, you know, Finley, but you’re in the realm of storytelling, ANDREA  18:08   right? Yeah. So as you were describing that, a couple of things came to mind. One is, when I was working in brand management, we talked a lot about the brand benefit letter ladder, right. So you start with features, benefits, and then you get up to emotions, right? And it’s like these human needs. And the higher up that ladder that you can get in a way that’s real, though, right? So you’re, it’s not that you’re being airy fairy, it’s like you have this fundamental need. And this product, or this service, or this brand is going to help you accomplish whatever your goals are associated with that need. And the second thing that I was thinking as you were talking is in terms of testimonials. So as a coach, I know how important testimonials are and we knew even with the brands that we were working on together, you know, food brands, that word of mouth is important, right? And those are sort of informal or formal one on one testimonials if you want to think about it that way. I feel like their stories may serve almost as a testimonials and it’s very indirect, right? But when you tell a story about someone who has, for example, done what you’re you’re encouraging your audience to do and this is where they went. They This is here’s where they started. And here’s what they evolve to through this product you’re providing them with with even though it’s coming from the source that’s trying to sell them right. You’re providing them with a story of something that might happen to them. And it is like a test. It is like a testimonial again, as you said at the very beginning, it needs to be absolutely authentic. Like, you can’t if you’re making it up, they’ll smell it a mile away. raxil ROB  20:07   Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s why testimonials do work. You know, they’re, you know, from an advertising ad agency sometimes hate them, right? Because they’re sort of they, they’re taking the creative juice out of the agency, and they’re, you know, putting it in the place of some person who’s used a product and service and wants to speak well of it. But people don’t get testimonials by listing features and benefits give people a testimonial, saying, I had this problem. And this thing came along, and it helped my problem. And, you know, and they’re usually, you know, they’re, they’re enthusiastic about it. And and if they’re genuine, you know, it’s, it’s second best to word of mouth, right, you know, in anything you do. Anything you do, having somebody behind the scenes going, oh, you know, you hired them, you can’t go wrong, right, that’s the best thing that can happen. I mean, it’s cool. If I, if I may, I was doing this as a number of years ago, but I was doing a gig with an unnamed agency, they had brought me in to create a content strategy for a big marketer, who was, you know, doing as many marketers did, you know, starting 10 or 15 years ago, they started to move away from advertising to creating content, right. And sort of, instead of interrupting people’s content they chosen to create, they were creating content that people were actually choosing to consume. And so I was at this agency, I had been hired on the recommendation of somebody, but the team I was working with didn’t know me from a hole in the wall. And they were, they were a little dubious, let’s say, and so I had done two or three weeks with them, I was trying to build up their confidence in my abilities. And then we had our first big meeting with the market or refer the client, right. And I had worked for the client previously, when another at another agency. And so we arrived at this meeting. And I didn’t really let the agency I was working with know that I knew some of the people at the client. And I wasn’t sure if this one very, very senior person was going to be in the meeting. But I had known that person for a very long time. And we had mutually high opinions of one another. He was a very, very smart guy. But anyway, we’re walking into the meeting, and he comes in at the tail end of his team. And goes, holy crap, I didn’t know we had paid on this. Awesome, awesome, good to see you again. Wrong. And it was like, problem solved. Yeah. Then, you know, from then on, I had an opinion with my team at the agency. They listened. Because clients are thought, oh, yeah, she said, He’s talking about so testimony. ANDREA  22:45   And it was genuine. If you had if you had spoken to him before and said, Are you going to be there? It would really help me then when he showed up? He would have been like, oh, Robert, right. But he was genuinely surprised. I love that story. ROB  22:58   And the meeting was minor enough that I think the agency was surprised if it’s going to be in it. Right, he was he was senior enough to usually wait until we were further along in the process before he started getting his opinion. Anyway. Beautiful, ANDREA  23:10   that is beautiful. Do you have any other anecdotes, like some small stories or epic stories that you want to share? Possibly about successes or failures of of some of your, your clients, or the folks that you’re working with, with storytelling? Too many? Oh, ROB  23:30   I used to. I used to be an instructor to, you know, continuing education for premium Marketing Association. And it was in, in live classes in person classes. And so I could tell my stories, because nobody was taping me. And I could sort of say, you know, I could bear, you know, bear the truth of what happened sometimes behind the scenes. And the minute they went and put that class on tape, the effectiveness of my teaching, you know, was diminished completely, because I could no longer tell those stories, you know, when told in Vegas, stay in Vegas. And it’s kind of the same situation here. Ah, but it’s funny, because we’re talking about storytelling and making points, you know, like, that pitch. So if I may, there’s one example I often use in when I’m when I’m teaching this, talking about, you know, using storytelling to make a point. And it comes from an old TED talk, and most people have seen this TED talk. It’s Ken Robinson, back in 2006 2008. Talking about creativity. Unknown Speaker  24:36   It’s the number one TED talk of all time. Yeah. ROB  24:38   So so people will will know this. But there’s, it’s interesting because he’s giving a presentation and he has no slides. Yet. It is a classic presentation, in that he builds a story arc. He uses a little bit of Nancy Duarte talks about you know, we talked about classic story art. She uses the same thing where she says, you set up what is As the status quo, and then you present what could be, right, and you want that gap between what is and what can be fairly large, and that’s the loftiness, where she goes loftiness of your idea. And that’s the way she uses story arcs in presentation calling, and he uses that to perfectly. But he’s trying to make this point about creativity. And he tells a story about a, you know, a little girl who, you know, didn’t do very well in school. And they’re in a drawing class. And the teacher notices that she’s working a lot harder than usual at her drawing. So the teacher wanders over. And she says, What are you drawing? And that little girl says, a picture of God. And the teacher goes, well, nobody knows what God looks like. And little girl says they will in a minute. And the point he’s making is that while that kids, our kids are naturally creative, they’ll take a chance. And while being wrong is not the same thing as being creative, if you’re not willing to be wrong, you’ll never create anything original. Yeah. And then he draws out, he says, the problem was our schools is we punish being wrong, right. And he draws it out that a lot of large corporations we punish being wrong, therefore we make the act of being original, or creative, very difficult. Yeah. And What’s always interesting is he could have made that same point, using charts and showing the neurological change of children as they grow older, and how we sort of lose our creativity and all that kind of thing. We told the story about a little girl. Yeah, and it’s a perfect example of he used that story as a visual aid. But the visual aid had no visuals. It was just the picture he painted in everybody’s mind of this little girl. My ANDREA  26:36   brain is my brain is exploding. Rob, I keep thinking, no one has ever asked me for data to prove that the coaching I do folks, whether it’s workshops, or I mean, they’ve they’ve asked, like, you know, what are your ratings on the workshop, but they haven’t been asked, what is the lasting impact of it of workshops, or of one on one coaching, no one has ever asked me for that. But when I tell them stories about the transformation that has happened with some with some of my clients, one that really comes to mind is I was coaching a really smart CEO on his personal brand to help him really think about his professional identity. He was he was moving jobs. And he told me after two or three sessions together, where we had really started to nail what his superpowers were right. And he was trying to feel really confident and focused. He told me that he went to a job interview. And it was maybe the second or third interview that he’d had with them. And they said, you have any questions? And he said, I have a really important question, actually. Are you looking for a new CEO? Who is going to charter open waters? And you know, take this company to new heights? Or are you looking for the CEO, that’s going to prevent us from hitting icebergs and other ships and other debris in the sea? And like keeping things safe keeping things, you know, status quo? And they said, great question. Very cool metaphor. The answer is in the short term, it’s status quo. And in the long term, it’s it’s charting open waters, and he stood up. He very politely thanked them for their time. And he said, I’ve been getting this feeling over the last couple of interviews. And I just want you to know, I am a trailblazer. I need to be charting open waters, or I will die slowly inside. And I don’t want to waste your time. I really, really have enjoyed meeting with you. And this guy, you don’t know him. Obviously, he’s a really nice guy. He would, he would never do this in a disrespectful way. But he said, Andrea, the work on my personal brand, made me confident enough to physically walk out of a job interview. And I was like, well, and I’ve told that story a few times, and people are like, whoa, that’s amazing. Like that story is more telling than any data could ever be about the power of personal branding. Right? So ROB  28:57   Oh, yeah. And it’s interesting, because, you know, if I think back in my old ad terms, he wanted to check on the brief. And when the brief wasn’t what he actually did that a couple of times back in the ad world where you’d be in presenting creative, and the first thing in the meeting is you go back through the creative brief. Yes, is what the agency has been asked to do. This is the strategy these are the most important thing you want to say here’s the support for the most important thing to believe the reasons to believe and having you know, presented for the first time to a very senior person and you go through the briefs in the garage. I’m not sure about the brief, but let’s see what you got. And having to stand up and go if you’re not sure the brief then when I have mixed notebook because it’s all built on that brief so you don’t go away and Lou trouble I bet. ANDREA   I bet you have specific stories where that actually happened. It did. Yeah. ROB   Wow happened on happened on a couple of more than one occasion. So, and it was one of those things where you know, the account people were very angry with me. But I was working for good creative directors who supported the decision. So always nice. But that’s essentially what he did. I mean, he sort of went, what he, you know, is very smart. ANDREA   Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he is a very smart guy. He’s now. Yeah, very, very happily employed in his in his new position, which is completely aligned with a superpower. So you mentioned Nancy duart. I just wanted to touch base on that. So she, I’ve read a couple of her books, and she is famous for working with Al Gore. Right, in the early days. ROB You know, I actually discovered her through a TED talk. And, and what I find interesting is where she came up with the what is to what could be was all just by looking at, I mean, it was funny, she, she, you know, dissected Steve Jobs. I think it’s 2007 iPhone introduction, Keynote, at Macworld, which is considered one of the best product pitches ever. Right? If you haven’t seen it, go watch it on. I sure it’s on YouTube. ROB   But she she dissected that, and then she dissected things like Martin Luther King’s I Have a Dream speech. And she found that they both followed, there’s still get back to the word cadence this, Unknown Speaker   what is what could be. And what idea was going to bridge that? What is the status quo, to what could be, you know, the threshold, or the new bliss, as she says, the language she uses? ANDREA   Right? Beautiful. Rob, are there? Is there anything else you want to add about storytelling? ROB   You know, the only thing I’ll do just because we’ve talked about presentations, I’ll just, you know, I’ll just add one of the things. So when you’re thinking of a presentation and a story arc, this is why I counseled people to think of what you want to say, break it into three chunks, you know, Act One, the beginning act to the middle, Act Three, the end. And then each of those chunks, has the, you know, what is what could be, what is what could be what is what could be, and then you mentioned it earlier, the power three, then structure your presentation. So I’m going to tell you what I’m going to tell you, I’m going to tell you, and then I’m going to tell you what I told you. And you do that three times. So if you think of the flow of a presentation, you know, you have your opening remarks, thank you for being here, the washrooms are over there, hold your questions to the end, yada, yada, yada. Then you have a creative opening, which is often like an anecdote or something that catches the, the audience’s attention, then you set your sights set, set your sub subject, which is we’re here to do this. And I’m going to talk about agenda one, agenda two, agenda three. Now I’m going to do body one. Everything I want to say under agenda one, everything I want to say under agenda two, everything I want to say under agenda three, and then I’m going to sum up one, I’m going to sum up to I’m going to sign up three. And now here’s my conclusion, which is should be okay, I’m willing to follow the accident or, you know, whatever your you’re doing. And so that’s sort of a really practical way on how a storytelling arc works into a presentation just to sort of close the loop on all the talk about ANDREA   presentations. That is absolutely beautiful. So I’m going to end up I think creating a list. It’s a current, it’s a chronological list, right of how the presentation should go. And when you’re pulling it together, you look at that list, you first think about your audience, as you said, right? And then you think about what your main point or your objective is. And then you can start filling in the points here. For those of the listeners that are actually watching on YouTube, they and you probably saw, I have a massive smile on my face, because you’re talking about the power of three. I also talked about, say what you’re gonna say, and then say it and then tell them what you said. Beautiful, I love it. In fact, that’s what I do with every podcast episode. A really smart podcast or Dave Jackson told me once that people don’t get on a bus unless they know where it’s headed. So that’s why the very beginning Isn’t that beautiful. Learn. Yeah. And and so he’s, that’s people aren’t going to listen to a 45 minute podcast episode unless they know what they’re going to learn, or even what you’re just going to talk about, right. So I love that I will create a chronology and share that as well. So now let’s move on to the three power of three. rapid fire questions. Are you ready? Yep. Okay, question number one, introvert or extrovert? ROB   I could say what do you think? But believe it or not, when I do all that? I’m an introvert. Unknown Speaker   I believe it. Yeah. Unknown Speaker   People often don’t, but I am an introvert. Yeah, I ANDREA   think people miss attribute. So you’re not socially awkward. You’re not socially anxious? That’s actually different from an introvert. It’s right. It’s about your energy. And, okay, I would have guessed that a lot of the smartest folks that I know are introverts. I’m just gonna say that, as an extreme extrovert, I have noticed that. Question number two, what are your communication? Pet peeves? The things that bug you? ROB   You know, actually, this is going to be kind of, like, given the fact that my biggest client right now is, you know, a technology company. But I kind of missed the old fashioned phone call. Yeah, like a string of texts, rapid fire texts. Sometimes, sometimes it’s fine, but sometimes just my thumbs can’t keep up. So that kind of, it’s like, if you’re doing a rapid fire, you know, 20 texts in a row to get a point across, it really would have been a lot quicker if you just picked up the phone, or jumped on a Google meets and said, Okay, let’s talk about this, ANDREA   then. So is it a is it about the time that it takes? Or is it about the effectiveness somehow of the communication? Or is it both? ROB   I think it’s a little bit both. It’s definitely you just don’t you just, it’s just like, you don’t know where somebody’s going. And, you know, it’s like the stream of consciousness, which we do when we talk, but somehow we tend to organize our thoughts. I think more when we’re, you know, in person with somebody. ANDREA   Okay, last question. Is there a podcast, I’m gonna say, a podcast or a book that you find yourself recommending lately? ROB    I think you had mentioned to me previously, Adam Grant. So I love I like Adam Grant. And I also like whether I listened to it on the radio or on the podcast, Terry O’Reilly under the influence, which is all about advertising. And so I know, for one thing I know Terry, he used to be radio producer, and I’ve worked with him. nicest guy in the world. Talk about being the smartest guy in the room. He was always at incredible Director of Talent. But he just just reminds me of the good old days, but also really informative and interesting. And he’s a master master storyteller. Yeah. And ANDREA   you know what, Rob? I should you’re just making me think I should interview him for a podcast episode not about storytelling, necessarily, but just generally about communication. That would be great. Yeah, ROB   he would be great to that. And then the other one, it’s one of my, you know, you know, guilty pleasures is, you know, my wife and I, we watch Jeopardy every single night. And when we can’t watch it, we tape it. So are we DVR? So inside Jeopardy? Oh, behind the scenes stories of you know, what’s going on in jeopardy land? ANDREA Ah, that’s really interesting. You know, I feel like, even though Jeopardy is about memorizing trivia for, for lack of a better word, right. People that do really well on Jeopardy are very high IQ typically. Right? And here you are saying that it’s your favorite show. So I’m not surprised. Okay, I’ll put that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Rob, for sharing your insights. We’ve got lots of gold here. Thank you for sharing your insights about the power of storytelling. ROB Thank you. I’m really happy to be here with you.   _________________________________   Thanks again to Rob for joining us and sharing your insights.     Like I said at the very beginning, we’re past the point of establishing how storytelling is important.  I think you get that. Otherwise you wouldn’t have listened to this episode. That said,  I love how Rob pointed out that– stories are SO much more engaging and persuasive than data. Ask Rob, the advertising executive.  Ask the executive communication coach. Ask anyone. Just use stories!!   Before I summarize, I want to remind you about the storytelling tip sheet I created for you. It includes this summary and lots more.  Just go to talkabouttalk.com/storytelling to download your free copy.   OK  the top three things I hope you to remember. What distinguishes great storytellers from not so great storytellers The #1 most important element of a great story Robs 9 step process for creating exceptional presentations   Number one: What distinguishes great storytellers from not so great storytellers.  Do you remember? I know.  I hate quizzes too.  Rob highlighted that the best storytellers are authentic and they engage with and know their audience. That’s a nice list. Authenticity, Engaging and Focused on the audience. So the next time you’re communicating a story, make sure it meets those criteria.   Number two: The most important element of a story. DO you remember what Rob said?  It’s the arc of the story.  The trajectory. The journey.  Even if it’s not an epic story, there’s tension and a climax.  So ask yourself when you’re telling a story whether there’s structure – a compelling arc.   Number three: Rob’s Nine Step Process for creating exceptional presentations. He mentioned this in the interview and emailed it to me later.  Here are the 9 steps: Audience Analysis ( particularly the decision maker) Set Your Objective (and focus on it) Collect Information (data, evidence, content) Develop Your Narrative (your three acts – or agendas. This is where you can add a relevant story) Create Your Slides  Read/Click Thru (get a sense of timing, Prepare for Q&A) Rehearse. Rehearse. Rehearse (and Make sure your technology is working) Deliver it  20/20 review  Many folks, like Rob said, start with the slides.  That was step 5 of 9 in his process. OK. This story is over.   Ove last reminder about the tip sheet. This is a document packed with suggestions that you can print or save to help you elevate your storytelling.  I hope you’ll go to talkabouttalk.com and get your free download.   Thanks again to Rob!  And thanks to you for listening!   If  you enjoyed this podcast episode, I hope you’ll share it with your friends and leave me a review on whatever podcast app you’re using. It really makes a difference and I appreciate it.   If you want to connect, I’d love to her from you. You connect with me on LinkedIn and message me there.  You can also go to the talkabouttalk.com website and send me a message there.    Thanks again for listening.  And talk soon! The post The Power of STORYTELLING with Rob Tait (ep.151) appeared first on Talk About Talk.