Talk About Talk - Executive & Leadership Communication Skills

How many emails do you have in your inbox? Need some tips on how to conquer your email inbox? You can increase your productivity and reduce your email anxiety by doing three things: (1.) making behavioral changes; (2.) employing technology hacks; and (3.) effectively managing our sent mail! The first thing to do is to redefine the role of email.  Email is not something to check off of your TO DO list. It is not an accomplishment.  Email is a tool.  Email is something that you can use to get the real work done. References & Links BOOKS “Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity” by David Allen – https://amzn.to/31KRfP2 The GTD Workbook – https://amzn.to/31HI02b “Unsubscribe: how to kill email anxiety, avoid distractions, and get real work done” by Jocelyn K Glei – https://amzn.to/2Qm4HYt “Predictably Irrational” by Dan Ariely – https://amzn.to/30dxJhi “Because, Internet: Understanding the new rules of language” by Gretchen McCulloch – https://amzn.to/2QkZqAo EMAIL HISTORY & STATISTICS Raymond Tomlinson (inventor) https://www.internethalloffame.org//official-biography-raymond-tomlinson https://www.radicati.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Email-Statistics-Report-2019-2023-Executive-Summary.pdf Statista: https://www.statista.com/statistics/911592/frequency-consumers-checking-work-emails-outside-work-hours/ eMarketer: https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Please-Dont-Unsubscribe-Why-Consumers-Email-Fatigue/1015219 LifeWire: https://www.lifewire.com/how-many-emails-are-sent-every-day-1171210 Expanded Ramblings: https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/email-statistics/ Adobe Consumer Email Survey: https://theblog.adobe.com/love-email-but-spreading-the-love-other-channels/ The NewYorker: “Was Email a Mistake?” https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/was-e-mail-a-mistake TIPS ON CONQUERING YOUR INBOX HBR: https://hbr.org/2009/05/how-to-keep-your-email-under-c.html HBR: https://hbr.org/2014/04/8-ways-not-to-manage-your-email-and-5-tactics-that-work https://hbr.org/2019/01/how-to-spend-way-less-time-on-email-every-day FastCompany: https://www.fastcompany.com/90379441/how-to-manage-email-so-that-it-doesnt-control-you Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/10/08/6-ways-to-be-more-productive/#23676df55605 Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnhall/2018/06/03/8-simple-tips-that-will-improve-the-way-you-use-email/#24d6b637115e Inc.: https://www.inc.com/david-finkel/12-email-tips-to-increase-your-productivity.html Getting Things Done: https://gettingthingsdone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/GettingEmail.pdf Unpacked on Inbox Zero: https://unpacked.mailbutler.io/2019/01/09/gtd-email-inbox-zero-flowchart/ City A.M.: https://www.cityam.com/inbox-anxiety-how-regain-control-email/ TECHNOLOGY Canned Responses for Gmail & G-Suite: https://google.oit.ncsu.edu/core/gmail/canned-response/ Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/27/my-six-months-with-30-month-email-service-superhuman/ Spark: https://sparkmailapp.com/ Slack: https://slack.com/intl/en-ca/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/08/14/say-hello-to-slack-the-newest-enterprise-social-network-and-the-latest-effort-from-flickr-co-founder-stewart-butterfields-tiny-speck/ PODCASTS Tim Ferriss Interviews Drew Houston, co-founder and CEO of DropBox.: https://tim.blog/2018/08/29/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts-drew-houston/ Gretchen Rubin – Happiness guru & advocate of the one minute rule – https://GretchenRubin.com Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup TRUST episode with Baron Manett – https://talkabouttalk.com/trust-with-per-se-brand-experience-president-baron-manett/ SOCIAL MEDIA episode with Andrew Jenkins – https://talkabouttalk.com/7-social-media-with-volterra-founder-andrew-jenkins/ Q&A episode: https://talkabouttalk.com/29/ Podcast – https://talkabouttalk.com/podcasts/ Shownotes for all episodes – https://talkabouttalk.com/podcasts/#subscribe_section Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   This is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting what I think is worth Talking About. My goal is to help us all become more effective communicators. https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   Please connect with me.  YES, I will personally respond! Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   One last thing, if you have a moment, please go to Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you use and rate this podcast.  It helps us a lot to get some traction in this wonderful podcast universe. https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/talkabouttalk/id1447267503?mt=2   Also, please subscribe to the free weekly Talk About Talk email blog. And no, I don’t think Siri knows how to do that yet. So just go to the https://TalkAboutTalk.com website and you can easily sign up there. You can also access all of the past blogs and podcasts. THANK YOU for listening! (and READING!) I’d love to hear from you. Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup     TalkAboutTalk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better manager, colleague, parent, partner and friend.”     TalkAboutTalk BRAND PROMISE: “TalkAboutTalk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”         ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #32 HOW TO CONQUER YOUR EMAIL INBOX appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Giving negative feedback is challenging and stressful. You will learn the mindsets, do’s & don’ts, and frameworks to help you give negative feedback effectively. Be constructive. Don’t make it a surprise, don’t joke around, don’t threaten the person. Be empathetic (compliment in public, criticize in private), be objective and professional, and LISTEN. Make sure that the feedback is S.M.A.R.T.: Specific, Measurable, Action-oriented, Realistic and Timely. Avoid the “Poop Sandwich,” and try the Start-Continue-Stop framework.   References & Links BOOKS “FEEDBACK (and other dirty words): Why we fear it, how to fix it” by Tamra Chandler – https://amzn.to/2O4eHTk “HBR Guide to Delivering Effective feedback” Harvard Business School Press – https://amzn.to/307UzXX SOURCES “The Feedback Fallacy” – HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW – https://hbr.org/2019/03/the-feedback-fallacy “Seven Ways to Effective Feedback” – Grant Wiggins, FEEDBACK FOR LEARNING – http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/sept12/vol70/num01/Seven-Keys-to-Effective-Feedback.aspx “Why the Velvet Hammer is a better way to give constructive criticism” – FAST COMPANY – https://www.fastcompany.com/90319581/why-the-velvet-hammer-is-a-better-way-to-give-constructive-criticism “The Better Way to Deal with Criticism at Work” – GLOBE & MAIL – https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/careers/management/article-the-better-way-to-deal-with-criticism-at-work/ “How to give negative feedback more effectively” – FORBES – https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashiraprossack1/2018/08/31/how-to-give-negative-feedback-more-effectively/#4bbbeae44163 “Four New Ideas for Giving Feedback that get Positive Results” – FORBES – https://www.forbes.com/sites/amberjohnson-jimludema/2019/06/09/four-new-ideas-for-giving-feedback-that-gets-positive-results/#391f4520a73d “Why What You Say as a Leader Doesn’t Matter” – FORBES – https://www.forbes.com/sites/louisefron/2015/05/26/why-what-you-say-as-a-leader-does-not-matter/#132cd32f8cd4 “How to Use Negative Feedback to be More Successful” – FastCompany – https://www.fastcompany.com/40443349/this-is-how-to-use-negative-feedback-to-be-more-successful Bridgewater Associates: https://www.bridgewater.com/ Reports on its radical transparency in providing feedback: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/bridgewater-associates-ray-dalio-why-you-should-love-criticism.html https://www.businessinsider.com/bridgewater-ranked-employees-by-performance-2018-3 Talk About Talk Q&A episode: https://talkabouttalk.com/29/ Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Podcast – https://talkabouttalk.com/podcasts/ Shownotes for all episodes – https://talkabouttalk.com/podcasts/#subscribe_section Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com     THANK YOU for listening! (and READING!)   I’d love to hear from you.   Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com     The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!:   https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TalkAboutTalk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better friend, parent, partner and work colleague.”     TalkAboutTalk BRAND PROMISE: “TalkAboutTalk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”           ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #31 HOW TO GIVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK with Dr. Andrea Wojnicki appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Learn 5 ways you can exercise or amplify your consumer voice. Market researcher Kathy Cheng of Nexxt Intelligence talks A.I. and chatbots, how firms can use augmented reality (AR), and the new market research, including why we shouldn’t call these consumer participants “respondents,” but rather partners or co-creators. References & Links Kathy Cheng & Nexxt Intelligence LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathycheng/ Nexxt Intelligence – https://nexxt.in/ Incabot – https://nexxt.in/incabot/ Recommendations: Waking Up with Sam Harris – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw7XBKhZJh4 Making Sense with Sam Harris – https://samharris.org/podcast/ Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Podcast – https://talkabouttalk.com/podcasts/ Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   Interview Transcript Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you so much for joining us, Kathy. Kathy Cheng: Thank you, Andrea. Thank you for having me. AW: So from a consumers perspective, what may we have noticed when we’re online, maybe when we’re shopping or doing research, in terms of AI and marketing and communications. KC: AI is really part of our daily life. When we search in the past, you type in the word, but now we can even just put in an image, the computer can find some clothing that you’d like to buy the exact same thing to find the store that where you can find that… AW: Wait a minute, I hadn’t heard of this! So if I take a picture or a screenshot of something, I can enter it in or somehow upload it? KC: Yeah, I believe Target is really big on that. If you upload a picture, you see a friend that your girlfriend has a really nice dress and you really like it and you want you wonder where you can find it, you can probably upload that picture and then ask the search engine to tell you where you can find the exact same dress or something similar. AW: So are you going to like a general search engine like Google? Or are you going to the target website for that? KC: The Target website is probably the best place to read less specifically. But Google artwork for example. Yeah, now I can just put a picture of the artwork, and then Google can find similar artworks or exactly the piece and then can tell me a little. AW: Okay, my brains’ exploding! Honestly, I did not foresee that this is where the conversation was going. But it’s fantastic. So that reminds me of the app. Shazam that recognizes music. If you press the button, it listens. And then it tells you what the music is. And it’s the same idea except visual? KC: It’s  definitely changing. And I see my kids, how they interact with their phones, computers, it’s totally different. They are part of the computer, I find they are real partners. They’re playmates. They are asking questions, just like asking their buddies. The technology we’re building, it was actually inspired by a conversation I heard my son was having with Siri, I thought that was just incredible. Because in our world, we really want to engage consumers so that we can understand them fully. But it’s challenging because nobody wants to keep talking to someone who wants to understand where do you bank? How much do you have in this checking account that ….nobody wants to do that. Right? So seeing a child interact with Siri asking all kinds of silly questions. As an entertainment it myself, I just thought, Wow, that is really inspiring. What if we could try to understand people with that kind of interaction? AW: Can you tell us a little bit about the technology that you’re using for your company? KC: We’re building a chatbot for research purposes, or research is, in simple terms, really try to understand people I think micro targeting is what is very good at online or offline. It’s again, not too long ago, I believe people were complaining. How come it’s creepy? I just searched a pair of shoes. Now the shoe stores chasing me I see advertising every day. It is creepy. How can you do something like that? Recently, there is an article 80% of consumers expect the internet to know what they want now. Yeah, it’s just fascinating how people shifted. Now they expect the internet to know what they’re looking for. That only delivers better services, right? AW: You could go one step further. You could actually be strategic, you can pre shop. So what are some of the things that marketers are employing AI for online? KC: There’s automated advertising service, like a machine can create ,can write the copy, can buy media, can eventually just launched a campaign? It does require a huge amount of data. What you would do, then it’s almost like working with an agency, you would tell the machine what you want, who you’d like to target? What’s the message, main message you’d like to be delivered to your target audience. So whatever automated of advertising how it is significantly different from traditional advertising is because digital media can be a lot cheaper than traditional media. And the speed of changing different ads can be almost instant, there is an opportunity for you to put out like 100 ads, at the same time targeting different people, instead of doing an advertising test for you to decide which one works the best, before you do the advertising, you can just put it, put them out there and try different things. And AW: whichever one gets traction, then you just push that one? KC: yeah. And then just use just automatically delete the ones that do not do that well. So that in a way is insight automation already. That, to me is a very good example of CO creation, put the consumers in the process of creation. I think that’s really, really amazing. AW: Are there some product categories out there right now, where this is happening? KC: I think insight technology is still fairly new, because it’s hard. It’s very, very hard. It’s hard. And at the same time, it’s really exciting, because in my mind, this is real artificial intelligence. Micro market marketing, that’s very good. Somehow, I think at the end is computational. There are certain algorithm but at the end, everything’s is algorithm. But I think I do see a difference between that kind of algorithm to predict what you might like, next, based on behavior data, versus an algorithm to understand the fundamental drivers, your past purchase behavior. So that’s the insight technology of your past and your future –  what you may be interested in. So that requires a lot more interpretation, creativity, things that I would think only human can do. But now there is a possibility that machine can do as well. To me that’s real, artificial intelligence. Once that happens. That’s, that’s very interesting. AW: Can you tell us anything specifics of probably without mentioning client names, but of projects that you’re working on, just to illustrate what might be possible? KC: I have to say, we’re at the infancy stage, we’re really pushing hard on that. What we’re trying to work on is to understand people, typically we do a survey, we do qualitative research — that’s the natural language processing piece. That’s the challenge that we really embrace. That’s our next step. So that’s where the chat bot plays a role. Because with the chatbot, the whole process is more social-like more natural, instead of bringing people to a very artificial setting, like a survey, because we don’t communicate in a survey environment. We chat with people, we give them some real life scenarios… AW: So are these customers or, or consumers of your clients or prospective consumers of your clients? Are they coming to your office and working on a computer? KC:  So there are two types of interactions, one that traditionally in the market research law, we still rely on panel companies, we tell them I want 600 Canadians, between 18 to 55. For example, I need to do a seven minute chat with a nationally representative sample of Canada, for example. So that’s one way. There are limitations, because we know consumer panelists may not be representative of all Canadians, there is a certain demographic or psychographic, that will be on consumer panels, not everybody. The other approach is more organic. We just put the chat on social media. We did a campaign. So that was three years ago, it was the Olympics. So what the campaign was, do a short quiz to find out what kind of Olympian you are, hmm, it’s almost like a personality test about our thing. It was all about culture, or the culturally different dimensions, we turn them into fun questions. AW: So there was a hook there, the Olympics were fascinating. At the time… KC: It was really fascinating how many people actually came to do the survey? It really …. It’s a it’s a happy story that we really enjoy. We ended up with 50,000 people. Wow. AW: the word I’m thinking is gamify. It’s like your gamified the survey? KC: Yeah. Gamification can have something to do with technology, or it doesn’t have to. I think that’s a that’s a there are market researchers who’ve focused very much on gamification, yeah. You can create very disguised surveys. It’s, it’s just a very fun game. AW: There was a company on Facebook that was getting into trouble for doing that, right? Because they were getting people to answer questions, and then they were targeting them. And it would seem nefarious at the time. KC: It could be it could be, yes. We need to do things in a way that is proper. AW: Can you tell us a couple more examples? Whenever I think of chatbots, I think of this really annoying computer. When I signed my children up for soccer… This sort of attractive woman walks across the screen. It’s bit creepy. And she says, Hey, there, I’m from this company, and I’m here to help you. Click, I’ve done this before, or go… And I’m like, Oh, my gosh, she’s creepy. What is that? KC: I think it’s a chatbot. Maybe the designer wanted to be more human like the sense of humor. In our case, we actually really try to be very clear, this is a chatbot. And a lot of the programmed responses, we have our thing, like, if someone says, oh, you’re just way too slow for me, then the bot will say I am my programmer, I tell my programmer, my programmer will make me better or something like that. Make sure that people understand this is a chatbot. But I think people have different philosophy in terms of using a chatbot. AW: And that probably will change over time, too. Right? It’ll become so widespread that it’ll be, hey, I’m a better chat bot than that chat bot and I’m there, you know, the chat bots will be putting their hands up saying I’m the I’m a chat bot… KC: I think it also depends on how it is used, I would think there is a big distinction between chatbots used for customer service purposes, versus for our purposes, market research discovery purposes.  In our case, though, nobody wants to voluntarily talk to us to give their insights  – that’s just never going to happen. And second, we tend to in our industry, we tend to ask really boring questions.  That’s a real challenge for us. AW: So why would a consumer fill in that survey? KC: We make sure that the experience itself is motivating is interesting enough that they will probably get something out of it. AW: Okay, so they’re learning something, perhaps about themselves or perhaps about some other phenomenon? KC: Yeah. We tried to incorporate some interactions in the chat. For example, if I ask you, do you like Starbucks or the importance? People say I like Starbucks, then was it? Oh, that’s interesting. You’re 65% of Canadians something — at least to give you a perspective to know you are we try that? I think some clients like it, but otherwise don’t. Yeah, especially, we always have a need to ask a lot of questions, sometimes even see that a waste of time, that interaction, I can ask the question, AW:  Interesting. Yeah. So because humans never really were writing down on sheets of paper for answering questions to each other, except for surveys. But humans are chatting with each other online. So you’re just by definition, by changing the medium of the market research tool, you’re bringing it one step or two steps closer to reality. So are you augmenting the written word with audio, any sort of audio or video with this? KC: Again, that’s a debate. In North America, at least we seem to have this impression that people don’t necessarily like voice as much as texting. People seem to like texting more.  In some other countries, people are more inclined to just click a button and then talk. And then either that can be translated instantaneously into, like a text, clip, or it doesn’t it just stays as a voice clip. In some other countries, people are more inclined to do that. We can show them a video we always clients always want to know the spontaneous reactions, and that’s the most accurate probably, we don’t want them to overthrow the preliminary response. AW: Yeah, just show them a video. Tell me how you feel. KC: So I think another goal we’d like to achieve through this chatbot environment is try to get to the more spontaneous reactions. We try to get to the system one type of thinking as much as possible. We try to we like the latency, how to incorporate latency into interpretation. That’s another behavior, behavioral type of data that can be interpreted, because like a scales, we researchers, we always like 11 point scale. show you an 11-point scale. Tell me: To what extent you agree or disagree on the statement. But I often look at the scale thinking really, what is the difference between six and seven? Is that really going to help? Yeah, AW: exactly. Yeah. So so maybe the best question, maybe the best thing would be to do is to take a photograph of the person’s facial expression. Right? KC: That that we really like it like that. Not just that, but also eye-track right to see how much they really debate between different answers.  So the faster you respond to this question, it can be an indicator or you’re more certain that is your choice. Right? Why the second question, you probably debate it longer. So that means if there were there was a scale, you’re more in the middle. If it is faster, you’re more like, one of the ends. So yeah, it’s just fun to have technology to play with. So you’re… AW: my mind is going the person is fully set up. You’ve got the MRI on their brain, you’ve got the eyeball trackers, you tend to be checking their heart rate. … and then they can tell you one thing,  but their body says something else. KC: Yeah, there are car clinics … They have new designs and invite people to come in to test the interior and all that that’s a very important part type of research. But with virtual reality, we can just put goggles on people and then get them to see the interior without going to a place. AW: it sounds like fun. It is actually Yes, it saves a lot of money. AW: More people might want to join these panels if they got to do cool things like AR KC: actually, that’s the feedback we got from our panel company! They really love working with us because our survey make their panelists more engaged. AW: And then they get to they have stories to tell their friends, guess what, I did this survey? And no, it wasn’t just checking off boxes on a scale from one to five, it was actually putting goggles on my face, or it was actually whatever, interacting with the chat bot and it was the coolest chatbot you’ve ever seen. Hmm. KC: I think the industry needs that kind of things needs to move toward an experience, we’re all talking about customer experience. We don’t treat our respondents or participants in the way that we treat our customers really, we don’t really pay enough attention to their experience doing research. But if they are not fully engaged, how can we rely on what they’re telling us? I think the whole industry has realized it is a challenge, especially with the younger generation, they have no patience sitting there for to do a 30 minutes survey, that’s just not happening. But the reality is, a lot of the surveys, we have to track results, compare what has happened in the past 20 years, for example. So the methodology has to stay the same AW: so do you think that some of those longitudinal surveys are just going to fade away? Because there are no respect audience who are willing to no valid respondents? Right? KC: I would think Yeah, they will. I think they have been fading away already. And eventually, that’s, that’s not sustainable. AW: Yeah. So this is the scary but exciting thing, right? So it’s scary to be in market research. But it sure is exciting, because there’s huge opportunities. But if you’re going to hang on to your old ways, it is scary. KC: Yeah, it is the topic of every industry meeting that we have basically, in the past, our industry is called market research industry, mass market research and analytics, basically, it’s AI and how we can leverage technology to really understand people, but the industry is definitely shifting in a big way. Yeah, I what I have seen and I think will need to happen next is really response we call them RESPONDENTS, the term itself determines that we considered consumers respond to questions we marketers have. It’s interesting. 20 years ago, I believe my mentor told me, she went to an SMR conference. And then they were talking about how the term respondent needed to be retired, right? 20 years after we’re still using respondents, to our respondents. But I think it’s this is just a word that we used to It’s okay. But it should be the relationship between consumers and marketers, that is really shifting. Advertising automation, for example, we don’t test. There is an alternative to just put the ads out there and then test the market by itself through the CO creation process at consumers will help vet the ads and the at the end of the day, that is already happening. Now the insight technology, how can we obtain real insights to really understand people? I think it has become clear that the only way to do that is you have respondents participate actively, as a partner instead of as a passive, respondent. AW: So I’m going to ask you now the 5 Rapid Fire Qs that I ask every guest. KC: OK AW: First Q: What are your pet peeves? KC: one thing I am really quite annoyed is seeing posts from people who are constantly bragging about their perfect life. First class, there’s champagne… AW: It’s obnoxious. KC: Yah. And cruel, I find. AW: OK. second Q: What type of learner are you? KC: Visual.  Definitely. Totally. AW: Q #3: Introvert or extrovert? KC: Intovert.  Some of my friends might find it odd for me to label myself as an introvert, but my job dictates that I do talk to people.  I am a moderator.  I do a lot of presentations  What I have learned is that when I am tasked to talk, I can be quite effective.  But if it is a random casual social setting, it draws a lot of energy from me. AW: Fourth Q: Communication preference for personal conversation? KC: These days I really love leaving audio messages using social media.  I use WECHAT a lot.  They let you to just record a short less than 60 second audio message. It’s actually really handy because I can just talk to my friends… People are all around the world living in different times zones. It’s not always easy to have a real time conversation.  But with this feature, whenever I want to leave a message, I can do so and they will too, in the same fashion.  And I think its better than texting because I’m not a fast typer. Also, I think it’s more real life like.  Because I hear the background of their life… AW: You’re the first person who has answered this way!  Would you say it’s like leaving a voicemail? KC: In a sense I think it’s better. It’s a real conversation that doesn’t have to happen at the same time. AW: Fifth Q: Podcast or blog that you find yourself recommending the most? KC: These days I’m really into WAKING UP with Sam Harris. His podcast is called MAKING SENSE  I quite like it. AW: I will leave links to those in the shownotes. I guess that’s it. Thank you so much for sharing your insights! KC: Thank you so much for having me.   THANK YOU for listening! I’d love to hear from you. Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup TALK soon!            Talk About Talk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better friend, parent, partner and work colleague.”            Talk About Talk BRAND PROMISE: “Talk About Talk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”     ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #30 YOUR CONSUMER VOICE with Nexxt Intelligence president Kathy Cheng appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Welcome to the Q&A! Dr. Andrea answers listeners’ questions – personal Qs, communication Qs & podcasting Qs. You’ll hear about her biggest success & failure, why you should pick up the phone, advice on small talk and giving constructive feedback, and the #1 most important communication skill. https://talkabouttalk.com/29   References & Links   Other Podcasts Referenced The School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson  “Why do we share?” episode featuring Dr. Andrea! The Podcasting Fellowship classmates: Morgane Michael – Kindsight 101 David Nebinski – Portfolio Career Podcast Nadine Kelly – Yogi MD – Mindful Health for the Wise Woman Gabrielle Pittman – Musicians Can Thrive Maria Xenidou – Impact Learning Jay Clouse – JayClouse.com Hidden Brain (NPR) How I Built This (NPR) Blubrry (my podcasting host)   Talk About Talk Episodes ·      #1 BODY LANGUAGE with Cynthia Barlow ·      #2 USING YOUR VOICE – with baritone opera singer Bradley Christensen. ·      #3 WHY WE TALK with Andrea Wojnicki ·      #4 LANGUAGE with Dr Josep Gonzalez ·      #5 PR / PUBLIC RELATIONS with Graeme Harris ·      #6 RATINGS & REVIEWS with Nancy Peterson ·      #7 SOCIAL MEDIA with Andrew Jenkins ·      #8 COACHING with Stephanie Rudnick ·      #9 YOUR PERSONAL BRAND with Michael Boydell ·      #10 COLOUR with Daryl Aitken, Jenn Purkis & Lori Ryerson ·      #11 STORYTELLING – with Harvard professor Jerry Zaltman ·      #12 CREATIVITY with Jenn Purkis, Lori Ryerson & Daryl Aitken ·      #13 SEASON ONE Highlights & Bloopers ·      #14 SIBLINGS with Brian Campbell ·      #15 A.I. with Avi Goldfarb ·      #16 FASHION & STYLE with Carolyn Quinn ·      #17 POSSESSIONS with Russell Belk ·      #18 FONTS & EMOJIS with Patrick Griffin ·      #19 SUPPORTING OUR GRIEVING FRIENDS with Andrea Warnick ·      #20 TALKING TO YOUR DOCTOR with Dr. Joshua Tepper ·      #21 TRUST with Baron Manett ·      #22 FUNNY TALK with Hillary Anger Elfenbein ·      #23 PROFANITY (CLEAN) with Darin Flynn ·     #24 The ABCDEs of Communication with Andrea Wojnicki ·      #25 BUILDING RESILIENCE with Tosca Reno ·      #26 SELF TALK & MINDSETS with Andrea Wojnicki ·      #27 POSITIVE SELF TALK with Tosca Reno ·      #28 COMMUNICATING CHANGE with Ellen Auster   Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup YouTube Channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzREfOG71jZ2qh05OMXATFQ Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   THANK YOU for listening! One last thing – If you’re not already signed up for the Talk About Talk email blog, you really are missing half the fun! Just go to TalkAboutTalk.com to sign up for the blog and to access all of the past blogs. I’d love to hear from you. Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TALK soon!            TalkAboutTalk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better friend, parent, partner, manager and work colleague.”   TalkAboutTalk BRAND PROMISE: “TalkAboutTalk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”     ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #29 Q&A with Dr. Andrea Wojnicki appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Communication is a critical skill for effective change management, whether you’re leading change for an organization, a department, or for your family.  Professor Ellen Auster shares five common mistakes and 6 success principles for effective change communication, including embracing the politics, collective visioning, using mantras, building change fitness and focusing on relationships.   References & Links Professor Ellen Auster LINKEDIN PROFILE – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellen-auster-2b888b SCHULICH PROFILE – https://schulich.yorku.ca/faculty/ellen-r-auster/ STRAGILITY Change Management Consulting – https://stragilitychangemanagement.com/ Recommendations – Oprah’s Supersoul Sundays – http://www.oprah.com/app/super-soul-sunday.html The Skimm – com/?r=ffdb7418 Books by Ellen Auster STRAGILITY: Excelling at Strategic Change – https://amzn.to/2YZYlSF Strategic Organizational Change – https://amzn.to/2YNC3mK Excellence in Business Teaching: A Quick Start Guide – https://amzn.to/2Zb8c30   Talk About Talk & Dr. Andrea Wojnicki Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Website: https://talkabouttalk.com Andrea’s email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   Interview Transcript  Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you so much for joining us, Ellen. Professor Ellen Auster: I’m so happy to be here. Delighted to do this with you, Andrea. AW: me too. Today we’re going to be talking about communicating change and specifically leading change. So I thought we should start with a definition. Can you define change leader for us, please? EA: In my mind change leader is someone who inspires others, they spark their passion, and sort of unleash their potential to bring new ideas to life. It’s interesting, catalyzed by us doing this podcast, I started thinking more explicitly about change and communication and realizing that really conversation and talking are the engines of change. AW: Wow. That’s why we’re here. EA: That’s why we’re here. And you know, whether that’s in our families trying to enroll others to think about our next vacation or whether it’s as change leaders transforming tech in the workplace, we all do change all the time, day in and day out. Big change, little change. And really how do we get going on that? And how do we stay on track? And how do we make it happen? It’s through conversations. AW: Exactly. Change really is so difficult yet, it’s so necessary. I’ve heard this from other podcast guests about how if you’re not changing, you’re not growing. And if you’re not growing, you’re not really living. And yet, it’s really difficult for many of us and including myself. The default is status quo, because it’s easier. Can you talk a little bit about the significance of it and why change is so difficult? EA: I think change is difficult because we are creatures of habit. On the one hand, we love routine, we love stability. We like patterns, right? But at the same time, if we’re stuck in patterns stuck in routine, we get bored, we get disinterested, we feel like we’re not growing. So it’s this paradoxical relationship between craving both – stability and growth and with growth is usually change. AW: You say in your book that change fitness is the critical foundational skill. EA: Yeah, it’s interesting like 20 years ago, when you think about organizations, it was more about big leaping change that they would plan for three years and then roll out a five year plan and it was like an eight year cycle. And the reality of today’s marketplace, but also today’s life for us, just as individuals, is the change is constant. And so change fitness is really about getting comfortable with navigating all of that uncertainty and ambiguity while still finding a path and knowing when it’s too much and we need to pause but also knowing when we need more and are excited about trying new things. AW: Completely agree. Change cycle has been truncated. It’s happening more frequently, and the output is relevant for a shorter period of time. EA: yes, it becomes obsolete quickly, whatever we’re doing, which is why we need to go back to the idea of change fitness, build our change muscles, if you think about the analogy to physical fitness. So a lot of what we do is about helping people navigate this change on the one hand, but also build those skills and capabilities. AW: So I definitely want to hear about all of those skills. But first, maybe it’s a little more fun to talk about what are some of the most common mistakes that people make when they’re managing change? EA: Yeah, I do think these pitfalls work either individually or with teams or with whole organization. So one of the first ones we see is this tendency under time pressure, and the need to be more efficient to steamroll forward. So we’re all faced with tons of pressure. Rather than really understanding our context, we steamroll forward. It’s definitely one pitfall, the second is telling and selling the change rather than inspiring and engaging and whether that’s we need to move to San Francisco or whether it’s you know what, grab your basketball right now on because we’re out the door because we’re running late, that kind of directive language doesn’t resonate very well, for most of us. AW: I say that! EA: We all do under time pressure, and we’re trying to get out the door. And so that’s about explaining the why and really inspiring and engaging. The third one is lock and load. So we’re struggling to solve a problem or a change challenge, the first good idea that comes up, we start a lock and load on that rather than really exploring alternatives. And sometimes that makes sense. I mean, sometimes we do want to actually just do the first good thing that comes to mind for choosing a restaurant and someone has a great idea. Sure, we’ll jump on the first restaurant. But if we’re thinking about more massive organizational changes or even high impact family events, like vacations, you know, we really want to explore alternatives. The fourth one is politics. The politics are scary for most of us, we tend to think about them as taboo. We don’t talk about the politics, and we pretend they’ll go away, but they won’t. One of the things we focus on is really a systematic approach, thinking about stakeholders and various reactions to change and how we can work with people. AW: A systematic approach to dealing with the politics specifically? EA: Yeah. AW: Okay. I love that point about politics, because you’re right, it’s, I was thinking a dirty word, but it is taboo, isn’t it? I mean, even to put it on the table as a topic of discussion will make a lot of people nervous, right? EA:  Even on an agenda. Let’s talk about the politics of this initiative. The first reaction is usually – oh I don’t know, that seems, you know, scary and how do we do that without creating more resistance? AW: this is a bit of a digression. But how do you define politics in that context? So I can imagine you consulting to a group and saying, okay, we need to talk about the politics here and someone says, whoa, what do you mean? EA: Yeah, so politics really is stakeholder engagement and all the varieties of that. And that kind of definition usually makes people feel more comfortable too, right? AW: Absolutely. EA: But in that spectrum of reactions to change, there’s resistance, there’s jockeying for power. And so to be quite explicit about those kinds of challenges and think about also what do people need, you know, what’s in it for them? for one person, it may be the power. And so can we actually provide some power that will help enroll them. For somebody else? It might be you know, what? I just want to see an impact. I want to see that the customer is impacted by this. It’s really about also drilling down to the individual level to think about what the compelling why at the individual level. AW: So motivations? EA:  Yeah. And then there’s one more which is one of the common mistakes and change is just way too much change all at the same time, and overwhelming and people burnout. The change fatigue problem. AW: Okay, so I just want to say for the listeners that we’ve now pretty quickly gone through five common mistakes, steamrolling forward telling and selling, lock and load, ignoring the politics and burning ourselves out. And all of these with notes are included in the show notes if you go to www.TalkAboutTalk.com. So my next question for Ellen is regarding her most recent book: STRAGILITY. What is Stragility? EA: Yeah, good question. So Stragility actually is a word I invented early one morning when I was typing strategic agility too fast. And it wasn’t auto corrected yet. And that word popped up and I went, Ooh, I like that word, right. And so that’s its origins, but it’s really about being Strategic, which makes sense. Agile, which of course is a really common word. But the third element which we couldn’t figure out how to put into the word is really the People Powered aspect. In the end, all change is about all of us rallying to do something different. And without that people component we don’t get very far. AW: So this is not about personal change necessarily. This is about some sort of team, some sort of unit, a corporation, family, couple, right? EA: That’s true, although it’s funny. I’ve had MBA students circle back and say, I used to agility this morning, my car broke down on the highway, and I… AW: really? EA:  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I actually have had some nudges from people on thinking about using the same framework and approach we use for agility to map career agility. AW: Wow. EA: So I do think it resonates at any level of analysis, whether that’s individual, team, group, organization, the book is focused more on leading organizations. But I think a lot of the principles actually work at multiple levels. AW:  I’m glad I asked that because I would have assumed that it was mostly focused on corporations, but then also personal but you’re right, I could overlay this. Yeah. EA: Interesting question. AW: So in thinking about this podcast, I am so grateful that you generated six success principles in change communication. And I’m wondering if you can take the listeners through those? EA:  Sure, it was a fun exercise to step back, because communication is not usually my main hat that I wear, you know, and so to step back and say if the emphasis is really on communication, what would I say are some essential elements? and the first is that shared ownership piece. I am such an avid believer of enrolling, whoever is being impacted or representatives of those constituencies right from the beginning so often and change I think, whether it’s parents in their bedroom at night, planning the next whatever for their family, or the executive team of an organization, the initial steps happen behind the scenes behind closed doors, and then there’s this tendency to then roll it out and roll it out looks good from the top or as parent, but roll it out doesn’t feel so good typically for the rest of the organization and the family. So having shared ownership from the start, and what does that look like? You know, that’s really about starting the conversations very early on. It’s providing opportunity for everyone to shape and mold as we go. And everyone can get involved. That’s a whole other conversation around if we do everyone co-creating fully all the time, it’s very time-consuming. So it might be reps, there may be representatives. AW: Yeah. So I have an off script question here for you about that. I’ve been involved in organizations at a board level or at a corporate level where they’ve been interested in initiating change. And they brought in groups and you hear this undertone of, oh, they’re just checking the box because they need a board member here. They need a whatever – an executive in this department an executive in that department and a lay person. How do you communicate that this isn’t just checking boxes? EA: I think it’s the process underlying the role of those representatives. And that’s about are they given the opportunity to actually go back to their groups, whatever the nature of those groups are, and ask questions, get input and given a voice at the table, because often those reps are at the table, but they don’t really have a voice. Yes, you can have reps but behind that there should be some kind of cascading process, that iterating information back and forth from the larger group into that portal of the top executive boardroom, if it’s, you know, a board situation because otherwise you will get the pushback: How is a representative chosen and be they’re not really our spokesperson. So that’s where I also like people having an option to choose who sits at the table and it may not always be the same person, even over the course of a change. So early in the change process, it may make sense to have some individuals and later in the change process, a different set of individuals. I love having front lines in that room later on, because they’re the ones that really understand how the change will have a real impact. AW: Yeah, right. I can see how complicated this gets.  I’m thinking of the politics. EA: Yes, politics. It’s actually complicated but also simple in the sense of that shared ownership piece. AW: It seems like common sense, but it’s not easy. EA: Oh, it’s not easy and easy to forget under time pressure and deadlines and quarterly reports and ….  Around the idea of shared ownership, there’s sort of two elements. One is enrolling those we know and those beyond our inner circle to really assess the landscape, both in our industry but also on the periphery to get ideas that we might reapply. A good example is a hospital that we worked with. And so of course, they were looking at leading best practices in patient care from other hospitals, but also looking at the periphery. So what can we learn from leading hotels about how to make in this case it was kids, how to make kids feel really comfortable when they have to come back again and again, like for chronic illnesses, and also look at even beyond hotels to what can we learn about mindfulness and meditation that might help with healing and pain management. That’s about really looking externally. And usually we know people, if we if we have a circle of   whoever is the central tribe of the change, most of those people will have somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. So it’s more than just scanning conventional leading practices, you might find an industry analyst and really talking to people about how they do what they do. And then on the shared ownership from the start. The second huge element is sort of the internal diagnostics and really asking people for what are the pain points with how we currently do things? What ideas do you have for how to eliminate those pain points moving forward, as well as strengths, what do we do well, that we don’t want to destroy and change. So often in change in the process, we undermine maybe some of our key capabilities, talking to those who are going to be impacted and those who will be responsible for the change about really what are the underlying pain points and strains as well as anticipating hiccups and hurdles? Right with whatever it is. AW:  Is it almost like doing a SWOT? EA: Well, it is, and I like the language of strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats. What I don’t like about the weakness idea is often we don’t get to the underlying why behind the weakness and if we just call it out as a weakness, we can we end up solving the wrong problem. We’re treating symptoms rather than getting to the core. So if I have a sore throat, for example, and we treat the symptoms with a cough drop. But if I have a sore throat and it’s strep, if I don’t know that I never know that the underlying cause –  is this bigger disease that I need antibiotics for. And the same thing happens all the time in organizations which gets back to that pitfall around Lock and load is we lock and load before we really understand why something is a pain point or a weakness. I do like the opportunities and threats. Although the buckets I find sometimes too dichotomous, right. And I also like the idea of considering the periphery. My worry on the SWOT, is we don’t get outside our core industry to look at some of those peripheries. AW: I think that looking on the periphery can help us in so many contexts in our life, not even just change management, which is kind of everything right? But I remember when I was a doctoral student and one of my favorite professors Jerry Zaltman would tell me to go read something in a completely different area and see how it would apply to what I was focused on and stretch my brain and my thinking that way and so I can see it from a different perspective. Yeah, that was powerful EA: you’re right. How many times do we get good ideas doing something completely different that we then connect the dots and go, Oh, right!! That would be could be watching a movie, whether you’re working on your thesis. Wow, you read something in the New York Times Magazine and go oh, yeah, absolutely. AW: So all senior executives should also be very well read. Well, all people. Yeah. EA: I think it’s a little less about reading and more about taking the time to connect the dots because we’re all exposed to stimulus all day long and everything we do and it’s so easy to just compartmentalize as a way of coping with everything – the onslaught that we have to deal with an overload. AW: I have heard that that is actually a sign of intelligence – having that ability to connect the dots is one of the signals, I guess, of higher intellect. EA: Yeah, and pausing. We need to pause to do that. I think that’s the other reason a lot of us don’t do it. I get them in the middle of the night sometimes, like, I’ll be sleeping, I have post-its next to my bed because I’ll be sleeping. And all of a sudden, it’s like my brain is doing that while I’m sleeping. And I’ll have some Aha, right? AW: Yeah, I have woken up a few times in the morning and thought I know I had an epiphany last night. I have no idea what the context was. EA: Yeah. So it’s interesting. When we think about shared ownership, one of the ways that really comes to life is grounded in what I’m thinking about is success Principle number two for communication and change. And that’s about having the conversations with our stakeholders, both externally and internally to help us assess the landscape. And so often in change, I think we don’t really take the time we need to dig deep about understanding the context before we move into visioning and solutions. And here’s where that shared ownership really comes to life because it’s about tapping into our networks, both externally and internally, to learn about opportunities and to learn about obstacles and to learn about pain points. And as we think about externally both, you know, so often we focus on the industry but not really on the periphery as well. The third key success principle for communication and change is around collective visioning. Collective visioning is hugely important in change. Because if we don’t know where we’re headed, then it’s pretty hard to figure out what we want to do and how we want to get there. It’s often skipped over and it doesn’t sometimes it can be big – it’s what I call big V visioning, which is like whole organization, what’s our vision for the future? But so often and what we do, smaller change initiatives and projects that are happening all the time all over the organization, it’s really small v visioning. It’s what’s our vision for this particular project or that particular project. We’ll see streamline technology across four different regions of the globe, for example, or this technology, or this project is all about service excellence. And that particular aspect we want to focus on. Let’s say if we’re York University it’s service to our students, and how do we keep students front of mind, in everything we do? So you can have big vision, but you can also have small vision. AW: So is it articulating what the goal of the change project is? EA: It’s articulating it, but I also love the language of back casting, which is imagining the future in your perfect dream world, and what does that look like? And then saying, if that’s what we’re trying to achieve, a collective aspirational vision of the future, then what do we need to be doing now and moving forward to get there. AW: So this is an aside to but what happens when a board of directors mandates something like that? EA: Mandates a vision or mandates a change? AW:  mandates change. EA: We still can do the visioning piece given that mandate. What could this look like? Right? And our best possible world? What? What would we like to see? So that is true. Often you’re getting parameters handed down from the top. And then you know, the small v might also be for my region, or for my unit, or for my level, what does that look like? Right? AW: Right. EA: …which might be a little bit different from whatever the higher umbrella vision is. Ok. AW: Ok. So the next success Principle number four is my favorite: Mantras help simplify. Can you tell us what you mean by that? EA: So a mantra is two or three words you would say meditatively, to center yourself. And I love that idea. When we’re doing change, whether it’s family or whether it’s organizational in our personal lives or professionally, change can be often be overwhelming. And there’s a lot of pieces and moving parts to change. And to have some simple two or three words that convey the essence of change really helps. And so for example, Free the Children is a local organization here in Toronto. And one of the initiatives they did, they ran this project called change for change, which was all about collecting the pennies that were becoming obsolete in our monetary system. You know, Change for change, you kind of go, Oh, I get it. Yeah, these little mantras really help do a couple things. One is the anchor the change. Second is from a communication standpoint, they make it easier to diffuse the change.  Third, is they help embed the change in the organization. Right? AW: Right. So everybody’s literally using the same language, same words. Right. I love that one. EA: One of the things that’s really helpful is change fitness and chunking up change into phases. That way it doesn’t feel like oh my goodness, we’re looking at like a 12 month time cycle on this. No, we’re just focusing on the first three months and what are we trying to get done in the next 12 weeks, for example? AW: Sorry to interrupt you – people who know you know that you are very fit, and you swim a lot. And I think you used to run right? And I could imagine that this is also how you would tackle a marathon or swimming 45 lengths. You don’t think about 25 lengths right? It’s one length at a time? EA: Yeah, I actually do these mini triathlons. I don’t know if you remember this. And that’s one of the reasons I love them is because it’s forced phasing. Because you swim first and then you bike and then you run. So rather than saying, okay, you’re going to do two hours and it competitive intense fitness. It’s like, Oh, what I’m going to do is I’m going to swim first. Then I’m going to bike, then I’m going to run. So I actually never made that connection. I actually never thought about that as change fitness before. AW: Really ? I thought that’s where you got the idea. EA:  No, I just like all three sports. I like the fact that you do them all at the same time in some beautiful place but breaking up the two hour fitness goal. Otherwise, same idea. AW: Yeah. EA: So the phasing again, I like having milestones built-in. So there’s what does success look like after phase one after phase two after phase three, rather than just saying, have we attained that big vision at the end? AW: So what do you tell your clients about celebrating milestones? EA: I tell them it’s really important. I also think it’s really important to celebrate success as it happens. I think the tighter the link between event and celebration, the more impact it has. AW: Sounds like good parenting advice. EA: Yeah, concrete, specific and timely, right.  So one of the things we can do to help ensure change fitness is building in phases and milestones and other things we can do is prioritize. AW:  this is true and families too, right? EA: If we tell our kids to do five things, they may just go – BLAH. But if we say, you know what, what might be helpful first is blah, blah, blah, and then move to whatever or don’t even mention the second thing yet. Right? And so as leaders, it’s helpful to do the same thing, what are our top-line items and focus on that. And I love the language of must-have versus nice-to-have to help people sort. So what’s really a must have in this change? Because when people start thinking about change, you know, pretty soon there’s change scope creep, and oh, we could fold this into this, and we could fold that into this. And how about if while we’re doing this, we add this little piece on and right? AW: like your house renovation, right? EA: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like a house reno. And sometimes that makes sense, you know, while you’re have some momentum, but that can also lead to change fatigue. So prioritizing is another good one for helping to ensure change fitness. A final one, maybe that I’ll mention is creating the space for pauses and reflection. And that’s true, you know, on a daily basis, weekly basis, personally, as well as professionally and these larger change projects. If we don’t build in time to step back and say, do we need to rethink this? what’s working, what’s not working? So reflection is a bit different from recovery. Reflection is more about taking the time to step back and look at what’s happened thus far in the change and say, Hmm, how do we want to move forward? Do we want to course correct; we want to change some things. What’s not working so well, what do we need to pivot on that’s a bit different from recovery. Recovery is really taking a break and that might be vacations or taking a day off. It might also be short breaks; we can just build into our day. Actually, with a colleague, we’ve just started really trying to get up and go outside the building twice a day. Right? And it sounds so trivial. But the inertia around No, I just have one more thing, I really should finish this, we’re on a bit of a deadline on that, right? That recovery piece is so important as a way to minimize change, fatigue.   And then the last success principle for change communication, focused on the relational aspects of change. It’s so easy for us to just focus on the rational elements, the strategy, the structure, the metrics, the technology. And that really takes us back to where we started around shared ownership, thinking about how we build the relationships we need to create successful change. It’s so interesting, I can’t remember where I stumbled across the idea of the Inclusive We. Years ago, I realized how often people, when talking about change, say you must. One of the things you must do as part of this change that you must doesn’t land very well on a lot of us, right, versus what do we think we might try in order to make this more successful? And so just that light shift in the words we use, and it was funny, a couple of weeks ago, I was listening to one of the convocation speakers at York’s convocation and to the students throughout the speech, the person used, you must, you must, you must, … AW: it sounds condescending. EA: Yes, it sounds condescending, and I thought, Wow, that was a wonderful speech. If they had just used the inclusive we throughout. Well, you know, let’s think about how thy could said that without being directive. And it was sad. And I see that all the time and organizations to with top leaders in particular, you know, there’s so much on their plates, they’re not thinking about those tiny little details around communication that make all the difference. AW: I’ve heard the same advice for parents. Like instead of what the heck were you thinking? How about what should we do about this? EA: Yes. AW: And then it’s hey – my parents are helping me. EA:  It’s a shared problem. Yeah, I always use the inclusive WE when my kids were growing up. AW: I know I heard you say it! Yeah. So much of what we talked about in change actually, it’s so useful for raising families. AW:  It could be your next career! So in terms of focusing on the relational aspects of change, the last success principle, there’s language. EA: It’s little things like I always try to start an email with hope you had a good weekend or how’s the start of your week going? Just a tiny little snippet of relational I care about you. Or if I know about something they did? Did you do that triathlon? How did that go? And I think that really helps. You know, especially if you have an ask in an email for somebody, you just have that relational softener, whether it’s email or whether it’s face to face, it’s so easy to just walk into somebody’s office and do the ask versus the relational check in. It’s interesting, one of the large consumer goods companies I worked with, and this may seem excessive to some people, but whenever we did our annual retreats with them, they would take literally an hour on the first morning of the retreat, to do what they call head and heart check in. Everybody that was at the retreat, they go around the circle, how’s your head, how’s your heart, and it’s like, my head is in this because I’m really excited about this retreat, what we’re trying to accomplish. My heart is a bit distracted, because my five year old is home sick today, or my head is not really in this because I’ve got this big conference call I gotta take in two hours, and I’m distracted but my heart is in this because I’m happy to be with my team here. And it was so interesting. What happened is, those snippets would bubble up throughout the three or four days. They were off site, right and people would be making connections. After I’d been through it, I was like, wow, that really does have huge benefits. AW:  The company is actually sending an implicit message that they care about the people. Also the people that are hearing the messages have a closer link with each other. EA: Yeah, they have insight. Insight and understanding, absolutely right about them as whole people as opposed to just their professional hat. AW: Is there anything you want to add about the sixth success principles? EA: maybe one thing to add is just –  with change, it’s hard to keep them all in mind all the time. But I think that’s where it’s useful, you know, even if you just if – I’m a big post-it girl, so I have post-its around that have those high level things, whether it’s success principles or mantras or things I’m trying to keep in mind. AW: And so you may have just answered one of the rapid fire questions with that answer. So now I’m going to move on to the five rapid fire questions that I asked every guest. Are you ready? EA: I’m ready. AW: First question. What are your pet peeves? EA: Probably lack of heart. You gotta show heart, whether it’s how you walk down the sidewalk, whether it’s how you treat an insect, whether it’s how you talk with colleagues at work, the lack of heart is a pet peeve. Yeah. AW: I feel like all other pet peeves that I’ve heard now are so insignificant. Okay, second Q – what type of learner are you visual, auditory kinesthetic, or something else?    Definitely visual. I am always drawing circles and arrows to try to understand thinking – like my own thinking other people’s thinking. Verbal directions don’t work at all for me, I need to see what it is and then it becomes so much easier. AW: Question number three, introvert or extrovert. EA: Leaning definitely towards extrovert I work out and figure out things through talking. But I also really need reflection time. I do that mostly multitasking through exercise, but … AW: you mentioned that when you’re sleeping and when you’re exercising. EA: Yeah, so I definitely need that introverted time as well. AW: So fourth question – your communication preference for personal conversations. EA: Probably too much emphasis on text – for efficiency. I’m not sure that’s the preferred choice or just the reality of how my life happened. AW: Okay, last question. Is there a podcast or a blog or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending? EA: Supersoul Sundays I love there so many great people that Oprah has on that from so many walks of life. AW: She’s phenomenal. EA: Another one I really like is actually one when you shared with me, I don’t read it every day. But I certainly check in on it, especially about US politics, because I like their take. It’s called The Skimm. And I think it’s two former reporters if I’m right, but they chit chat about really heavy and deep issues, in a way that’s super accessible. And you don’t have to know the backstory because they provide a quick little summary of the backstory in case you weren’t tracking that issue. AW: I love that. I’ll leave the link for that in the show notes as well. Is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners regarding communicating change? EA: Maybe one last thought is the power of communication, it is all about communication. We don’t do things differently. We don’t shift. We don’t move, we don’t evolve without conversation and communication. And so thank you so much for opening my eyes to thinking through the communication side because I actually haven’t done that explicitly. And it’s been really fascinating for me and full of insights. AW: Oh, me, too. I thank you very, very much for sharing your insights. Thank you. EA: You’re welcome. My pleasure.   THANK YOU for listening – and reading!   One last thing – If you’re not already signed up for the TAT email blog, you really are missing half the fun! Just go to TalkAboutTalk.com to sign up for the blog and to access all of the past blogs. 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SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup            TalkAboutTalk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better manager, work colleague, parent, partner and friend.            TalkAboutTalk BRAND PROMISE: “TalkAboutTalk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”       ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #28 COMMUNICATING CHANGE with professor & author Ellen Auster appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Positive self-talk can make you healthier, happier, and more successful! Tosca Reno, Eat Clean founder and master wellness coach shares her advice for positive self-talk, including the Three Es of Wellness (Eat Clean, Exercise and Emotional self-care), her rituals, her mantras, and even her tattoos!   References & Links Tosca Reno WEBSITE – ToscaReno.com FACEBOOK GROUP – https://www.facebook.com/toscareno/ BOOK – “The Start Here Diet” – https://amzn.to/2YFL55t BOOK – “The Eat Clean Vegetarian Cookbook” – https://amzn.to/2KtQsfm   Books (in order mentioned) Wayne Dyer (“I AM”), “Wishes Fulfilled: Mastering the Art of Manifesting” – https://amzn.to/2Z67rYX Andy Puddicombe (Andy the Monk), “The Headspace Guide to Meditation & Mindfulness” – https://amzn.to/2Z6IaOq Sandra Ingerman MA, “Shamantic Journeying: A Beginner’s Guide” – https://amzn.to/2yXVCJF Napoleon Hill, “Think and Grow Rich” – https://amzn.to/2Z2nKGo Ed Rush, “The 21 Day Miracle” – https://amzn.to/2ZdVXHf David Buettner, “The Blue Zones of Happiness” – https://amzn.to/2KA3g3R Mel Robbins (5-4-3-2-1), “The Five Second Rule” – https://amzn.to/2Z6GdBF Brené Brown, “Daring Greatly” – https://amzn.to/31GHQrj   Talk About Talk & Dr. Andrea Wojnicki Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Self-Talk Podcast Episode 1of3 – #25 “Building Resilience” with Tosca Reno – https://talkabouttalk.com/25-building-resilience-with-tosca-reno/ Self-Talk Podcast Episode 2of3 – #26 “Self-Talk” with Dr. Andrea Wojnicki – https://talkabouttalk.com/26-self-talk-with-dr-andrea-wojnicki/ Andrea’s email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   Interview Transcript Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you so much for joining us. Tosca Reno: It’s such a great pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. AW: Let’s start with your three E’s. Can you tell us what they are and define them for us, please. TR:Okay, so the three E’s of wellness really explains or captures what the World Health Organization reveals as true wellness, to be truly Well, you need to pursue three avenues in your life closely. And that is what you eat. So I call that Eating Clean. That’s the first E, it’s how you move your body or exercise as your second E. And thirdly, it’s about emotional self-care. And I learned that the hard way when in my previous life when my step son died, and my husband died and all of that loss, and I could eat clean, and I could exercise, but I was not healthy. I was not well, so I had to do the emotional work. AW: Do you want to get into the emotional self-care a little bit and tell us what you did? Because you said something to me in one of our communications about meditation and I thought, Oof, I think I need to follow that advice! TR: So yes, meditation is an aspect of emotional self-care. We can do a number of things to strengthen how we love our head and heart space. And it was about four years into the grieving process after Robert and so many things that happened and I wasn’t doing well. My daughter Rachel, and she basically came here to this house and I was literally catatonic. I was in bed in the afternoon, I’m never in bed in the afternoon, I couldn’t put sentences together. I didn’t know what I was saying or thinking I was just, I was so consumed by grief, I didn’t know what to do. And, and that’s when Rachel just basically said, Mom, you got to start doing something to take care of your heart, your head, something’s wrong. We’re gonna start with meditation. And the first meditation I ever did was with Andy, the monk on the headspace app, you know, free month trial, you go, and you listen to this monk with the beautiful Scottish voice I’ve heard, it’s a great place to start. It’s fantastic. And the reason why it’s fantastic is because he teaches you how to be quiet, but not quiet. In other words, when a thought pops up, he teaches you what to do about that. See, I was terrified of meditation before because I’m a doer. Everything about me is busy, busy, busy. Go, go go.  Do do do. I couldn’t slow down long enough to feel anything. So really the coaching of that voice, and that very basic beginning meditation helped me learn how to meditate. Now I do it. I mean, this morning, I got up, I started, I didn’t even get up, I just hit the play button on my meditation. I’m still in bed, and I start my day with meditation. And I can do 20 minutes unguided…I have a mantra tattooed on my wrist. And it comes from the meditation I like best. It’s by Wayne Dyer. It’s called the Moses code meditation. And basically, it’s a mantra of self. I am strong. I am, I am beautiful. I am, I am worthy. I am and it just to this music, but you’re This is what you’re repeating, and you choose your I Am. But when we say that we are, we are in the moment of God, we are in our godliness because God created us and made us who we are. It’s beautiful. AW: So a couple things. First of all, I got to make sure I get a picture of your wrists so that I can show people what you were just pointing at, which is a beautiful tattoo that says I am on her. Right? TR:  Right. Dominant hand. AW: And it’s a question that I wanted to ask you later on. But I’ll ask it now. Is that your mantra? Do you have a mantra? And if you do, is it I am? TR:It is I am. And it speaks to also the tribe of women that I have grown and developed with over the last few years. Because at the same time that I learned how to meditate, I also began to participate in a group of people who meditated. And so a group of us have this I am tattooed on our wrists. And we met on Saturday night, for example, had a big bonfire. And you know, yes, it’s a Ladies Night, but it’s also a healing night for us. AW: So do you feel like there is also like, Is there some power? a connection? TR: Oh, yeah. Yeah, the circle, the sisterhood, the tribe, the struggle, life, you know, life is real. It’s not always a piece of cake. So in that there’s a great deal of power. So meditation was where I began with my healing of emotional self, which was really quite broken. And I wouldn’t say that I’m completely fixed. I still have experiences where I’m trying to break through the craziness of myself. I grew up in a time… I can be crusty. AW: there’s nothing crusty about you. TR: That’s, that’s sweet. I grew up in a very strict Roman Catholic household. My parents were Dutch immigrants. And this, it was a, it was a difficult, difficult childhood. My mother was physical, very violent with us. And I think because I was the biggest of the siblings, even though I wasn’t the oldest. I got more somehow. So it’s, I didn’t I didn’t know how to actually be loved. I didn’t know how to be warm and open. That’s why Right. Yeah. And that’s because be vulnerable was dangerous. So I had to break through that crustiness. And it took a long, long time and a lot of work. And a lot of grumbling and a lot of fugly cries and snotty noses and falling and blackness. Yeah. AW: So you when you’re meditating, do you think about that stuff? TR: I do. And I do energy work. So I work with women who can move your energy, I’ve done shamanic journeying, so that I can tap into my power better, but the meditation helps what also really helps us journaling. So I think so. So my morning routine basically is wake up, hydrate, I don’t consume anything other than water, I don’t turn on my phone other than to play the meditation, meditate, or whatever it is, in the meditation, whether I get a message, a small lesson, somebody shows up, a word, whatever, then I journal immediately. And that’s 10-15 minutes, but I love to write. And then from there, I feed my brain by reading something like thinking Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, or the 21 day miracle by Ed Rush or something that feeds my soul. So that I know that I fed my brain. And that’s the beginning of my day. AW: That sounds like a fantastic ritual. TR: It’s good. I need I need to do it to ritualized because, well, first of all, humans are hardwired in our brains for ritualization. Yeah, we like that. Which is  why PMS to me means please, more structure AW: I love it. I like that. TR: I need it. I need the lines. AW: I’m with you on the structure – ask anyone.  Okay, so I’m looking for, I guess, tactics and strategies. TR: Okay AW:  that will enable myself and the listeners in positive self-talk. So waking up and hydrating, and then there’s the meditation, journaling, right? TR: Yep AW: reading and nourishing your brain…? TR: to think about all of these things, what we’re talking about, from the gentle waking up from pushing your phone away, other than to listen to meditative music, listening for the messages, connecting with yourself, writing, practicing gratitude, hydrating, all of these things are acts of self-love. Your brain is most creative and most absorptive that first hour after you wake. So when your first messages to yourself are loving yourself, finding the quiet speaking, the gratitude journaling, to cement the thoughts in your brain, because neurons that fire together wire together, this is all like a self-fulfilling cycle of love, right? Oh, she’s loving me, that’s good. Well, then I’m going to feel better about the next thing she does, I’m going to love myself some more, I’m going to do the writing, I’m going to do the thankfulness, then I’m going to do something else to love myself. And then you’re going to get out of that bed. You haven’t even left the bed yet. And you’re like, I really feel good, I need to eat something. Now you’re not going to go eat a Twinkie because that’s going to take all that positive vibrational energy, and squash it. And then you’re going to want to do that workout because your body is on fire, and so on. Right? Each of these things gathers momentum. That’s why it takes time to develop the habits of wellness. But when you live a lifestyle of wellness, it feels less like a diet less like punishment, less like starvation or restriction. It feels like life. AW: So you use the word momentum, which is what I was thinking when you were talking about the cycle, right? You start off your day with positive momentum. I was thinking that the three E’s and maybe particularly emotional self-care, they’re obvious, but they’re not. And they’re certainly not easy. Otherwise, we’d all be doing it. And we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Do you know why? TR: Why? AW:  That’s my question. Why?  TR: Because eating and exercise are just execution. That’s easy. You just how to eat or exercise, I can do that. feeling something? That’s a whole other ballgame. There’s no go from A to B to C get result. You have to feel it. That’s why I say the emotional self-care for me was some of the hardest sets and reps I’ve ever done in my life. AW: tougher than changing your diet, tougher than… TR: diet was easy for me. exercise Easy, easy, falling down in the grass, sobbing your guts out? No, that’s not easy. AW: So when you don’t have the momentum – when you wake up in the morning, and you’re like, oh my gosh, I have to be done my shower in the next 30 minutes, because I have a meeting. But you’re sleep deprived. And the last thing you want to do is hydrate meditate, journal and read…? TR: Choose one and be okay with it. Because what we normally do is we start that whole cycle of you’re dumb, you’re stupid, you failed, I’m going to ruin it, I’m going to wreck it, I’ve already wrecked it, I failed, right?  So this is exactly what happened to me this morning. I had my gym clothes on, I was ready to go and just sweat it out in the gym, I had done my rest of my morning routine already, I get a call from my realtor and my accountant, we’re going to be them house in 10 minutes. Well, I can’t get a workout in 10 minutes, I quickly changed my clothes, I have to do this meeting, I was okay with that. I know my lifestyle is solid. And if I miss a day, it’s not going to wreck me. In the beginning it feels like it’s going to wreck you. You’re just learning how to do it. But ultimately you get to a place where it’s just second nature. And I know that I can do my workout after we’re done here. And I know that I can do it twice as hard tomorrow, if I want to that negative self-talk for me getting rid of it was a big job. Because I was the best at negative self-talk. I started my fitness career at the age of 42. I was looking at the oxygen cover models with the ripped abs and butts. They knew what triceps were and I didn’t, I was so insecure, I had the negative self- talk going all the time, until I finally had the realization. You know what? People looking up at you for what you’ve accomplished in a time where no one expects it and you are a better person for all you’ve done. All you’ve achieved and all you’re wrong is just be raw, and forget about what everybody else is thinking. And you stay focused on I did my best. AW: One thing that I was actually thinking on my way here that I’ve noticed about you in the few times that we’ve met now, is balance. And I think you just articulated that without using that word right? Because you said if I if something happens that I need to do a one at I can do that. TR: Do you know what I have? I have what I call wellness hygiene or wellness literacy, meaning I can in my mind, the equation is eating clean exercise emotional self-care, okay, something comes up. Well, I have enough emotional self-care to know that it isn’t going to wreck my day. Because I’ve already got the other two pieces in place or if they’re not in place. Tomorrow’s another day, I can practice forgiveness. I go on, most of us throw our hands up in the air and say it’s over. I’m done. I’m a failure, you know, go down that whole road. I just say, Well, today’s Not today. Tomorrow’s another day. AW: Right. Tomorrow’s another day. TR: wellness literacy, wellness hygiene, no point making yourself crazy, or what you didn’t get done. AW: I love that wellness, literacy and wellness hygiene. It’s like tomorrow, you’re always starting at zero. Actually, you’re not starting at zero.  You’re starting at something, right? TR: Never say you’re starting at zero unless you’re in your very early days because no amount of calorie counting fad diets trendy anything can trump lifestyle, lifestyle trumps all, remember living a healthy lifestyle on a daily basis long term, it’s the only thing that can actually override your genetic expression. When we have a healthy lifestyle, we can do that. So if you know that lifestyle is your ace in the hole, you know that going down the path of negative self-talk because you didn’t accomplish something in the day is counter to your wellness. Tomorrow’s another day saddle up, honey. Let’s go.  AW: That’s very empowering. I wish you people could see the way she’s looking at me. I’m so empowered. So your comments about lifestyle reminded me about Blue Zones. And a few months ago, in one of my weekly blogs, I was talking about Blue Zones, because I find them absolutely fascinating. And for those people who don’t know, Blue Zones are places in the world where people tend to live longer. So there’s a lot of research about what factors distinguish these people, and particularly the lifestyle factors that are associated with them. I was thinking that eating clean exercise and emotional care seem to rate high that in these areas. And I know that you’ve been to one of those Blue Zones, which is in Costa Rica. TR: Yes. AW: I’d love to learn more about what you observed there. TR: Generally, when I go down to Costa Rica, it’s for my retreats. And the culminating experience of the retreat is that we go to Nicoya Peninsula in the Blue Zone for a day. What that means is for the retreat guests and myself is they have experienced several days of learning how to eat clean, cook, exercise, meditate, journal, get spiritual with self. And now they’re going to go to this place where they see this expressed in the people and you have a traditional meal prepared by Costa Rican peoples, and you sit in the restaurant with their table. It’s very humble, and you eat this meal made with love. And you see the traditional food that’s grown in the backyard over there. And you see men that are 93, 107 years old, wow, they’re mobile, they have their teeth, full heads of hair, they come they understand everything. And they flirt. They have what’s called brillo in Spanish, right, which is the sparkle in the eye, AW: you must have a photo of 107 year old man flirting with you? TR: there are. And so then this time, we got to go to the community center. And we brought food that was prepared to the restaurant and we fed the elders at the community center. And then we had a special surprise a treat because a gentleman who was not he was blind, play the guitar for us. And then we all danced. And it was like pure magic and joy. And what we’re seeing is health, the purest expression of health or wellness in these people through their joy laughter through what they eat, through how they treat the elderly in the community through how they treat those citizens who have less ability, perhaps the person who can’t see you see what health looks like you don’t see people in carts, you don’t see people on motor scooters that can’t get around. You don’t see obesity, you don’t see rotting teeth or psychotic episodes, you don’t see people running around with guns shooting people, you see the joy of life lived out in these people. And you see the value of how a lifestyle creates this the abundance of living. AW: So if someone was to go into Nicoya and say, what is your secret sauce? What’s the secret here? What did they think it is? TR: Well, they think it’s having coffee with their friends and loved ones.  very important to be part of the community. So this is a thing. The elders are not sequestered. They’re Welcome. Everybody sits at the table together. So that’s one thing. AW: So it’s connection. And there’s no age-ism. Is age revered? Is it the opposite? TR: I’m telling you, the way that the older people are treated is touching, there was not a dry eye in the house, not a dry eye, you just see something that you know is right and beautiful. It touches you. The other things that they have are they they’re very proud to show you that the corn that we’re eating in the tortilla that they made came from the garden that was grown over there, that the hundred year old till the soil and because these are not GMO seeds they are these are heirloom seeds. The chicken that they raised is grass fed, there’s no antibiotic, the water, water is key water is the number one nutritional deficiency in the world. Number one, but their water flows through a limestone bed. So it’s pulling out the minerals. And these minerals go into the bones, the teeth, the hair, the eyes, the brain, the nerves, and creates a healthier, stronger human being. Well, we’re not doing that we’re drinking water that has no electrolytes, no minerals in it. So no wonder we have osteoporosis and dental disease and nerve damage and brain malfunction. So you are bearing witness to the wellness that should be yours. And you go and you see it and you just think… AW:  I would love to go… TR: bucket list. Let’s go Let’s go ! AW: I have a list of questions. So I want to hear things you do to stay on track. And you’ve already shared some of those things you say to yourself, maybe other than your mantra. And then also what do you say to yourself when you have setbacks? TR: You got this. So that’s what the other tattoo is. Infinite power. These are Aramaic symbolsthat tell me every day, infinite power, you have the ability, you have the power, you will not crumble. AW: That’s what you tell yourself when I am isn’t enough?. Okay, we’re gonna have to get a photo of that tattoos. Yeah, I’m thinking about the three E’s. I love that it’s a list. I love that it’s structured. I love it. It’s simple. I even love the alliteration. But I feel like if I’m about to embark on the three E’s of wellness, I want to know where to start. How do I decide what to do first? TR: I thought about that and created a 12 week program. So I can walk people through exactly that. And I packaged it in such a way that it feels like you’re getting beautiful mouthfuls of just the right information at the right time. So that will be launched in September. But for anybody listening to this now who’s questioning where they fit in that list of three E’s? Am I taking care of my eating clean? Am I exercising? Am I taking care of my emotional self, and you want to know where to begin? You’ve heard me say a couple of things already starting with perhaps hydration. Starting with meditation, starting with journaling, practicing gratitude. In my family, we have a game. It’s called the gratitude game. So if one of my girls calls me and they’re whining or the other the phone because they didn’t have a great day at work, I will say okay, hold up, stop the phone right there. Let’s list off 10 things, each taking a turn of what we’re grateful for. So Kiersten will say I’m grateful for my curly hair. And I’ll say I love my feet. And we go back and forth. And you’ve just gratitude yourself out of your funk. And that’s an easy one anybody can have. AW: So for you, you knew that the emotional self-care was the thing that you were not achieving to the standard that you needed to, right? TR: Well, I didn’t know what I didn’t know until …, I fell on my face. Yeah. AW: So my question is, do you think that we should focus first on the thing that we are most deficient in? Or vice versa? TR:  I think there has to be a readiness; I do not think that the exercise of emotional self-care is going to be easy for everyone. So I’m not saying start with the easiest, I say start with the thing you can commit to. For me, it wasn’t emotional self-care, because I didn’t know what the heck that was. I didn’t know. That was not a thing we were raised with in my household, right, the people that I chose, and the men that I loved, didn’t teach me that I had to learn that. And that was the gift of Bob’s passing, and Brandon’s passing. And the business passing was learning that, and I was a willing student because I was so broken. My goal every day, my desire in life is to be with my children, so I can see them raise their families. And so I had to fix it. I had to do something about it. AW: Then would you say your first step was meditation? TR: Yeah. One hundred percent. AW: And you already had the exercise and eating clean? TR: Yeah, I was, I already had that figured out. Because my past showed me that. I competed. I had competed at the age of 52, just after Bob passed, so I could figure that part out. I had that down, not so much the head heart space. AW: I love the fact that it’s three things because I’ve heard this before. It’s like a tripod, or a stool. If any of them is absent, it falls over. TR: Exactly. I fell over. I definitely fell over. I think you’re right on there. AW: So I have another question. And that is, do you think it makes a difference whether when we’re trying to convince ourselves or inspire ourselves to change behaviors for the better whether we make a public or a private declaration? TR: I do. And I think you have to make a declaration to self, you don’t have to go public, I do think that you need to declare it for yourself. Yes. And so in my three E’s of wellness, there was a piece where I asked people to do the work of writing out their definite purpose statement, which is borrowed from Napoleon Hill. But it is so powerful, it’s really a document that encodes your manifesto to yourself and what you wish to accomplish and how you’re going to accomplish it. AW: okay, so it’s not necessarily the public private, but it is the formality of it. TR: So I made a statement earlier where neurons that fire together wire together, if you think it, write it, speak it, your wiring those neurons together, so that this is now a thing, you formalize it on paper? AW:Okay, here’s a question that might sound like it’s coming out of left field. But you are such an inspirational role model for many of us, including your followers on Facebook, and so on. Do you have a role model? TR: Wow. First of all, thank you. I’m very blessed. I have a beautiful audience. And I count myself lucky every day. I work very hard to cultivate strong relationships, on my website, in my platforms, and anywhere I go, because I’m very grateful. I look up to people who are making success out of mess. So I’ve been lately following Mel Robbins with the 54321 Rule. And Brené Brown. And I also love people like my mother, who was who was really raised as a child witnessing the atrocities of the Nazis. She made a life for herself with nothing out of nothing. And the courage to do that. When it felt like the whole world was falling apart. I think about the little heroes and every day; I look for my heroes and the everyday person. It’s not all glamorous, Instagram life. It’s not right. It’s being real. When the cameras off. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think that’s beautiful. AW: So what do you think about Jane Fonda? TR: I love. She seems evergreen, and I love that she’s been able to keep herself relevant with her decades. First of all, she’s blessed to be in her 80s now, and she’s worked hard for it. But it’s still a blessing. Because no one has a guarantee on lifespan. I look up to the fact that she’s been willing to do it. And every time she throws something new at you, like I remember at the Oscars when she wore that man shirt with the pink ball gown skirt. And I’m thinking that’s amazing. AW: She looks good.   TR:  And now she’s what 82 and she films 10 hour days for her show, which is a massive hit. Yeah. So I just think you know what? She can do it. I can do it. AW: You definitely, you definitely can. So after hearing this, can imagine that many of our listeners are really going to be interested in signing up for the three E’s. Can you tell us how to make it happen? TR: Yeah, sure. So you can just go to ToscaReno.com and right now there’s a waitlist because we actually go live with the launch in September, and we will take care of you because we also engage with people who are interested. AW: So when I think of you and your story Tosca, I think of many things. Resilience, which we’ve talked about in depth, also optimism, energy, discipline, and I still think balance because you eat clean, but you’ll allow yourself to have a glass of wine for goodness sake, amongst other things. Right? TR: right. AW: Here’s a tough question. Is there one skill or trait that you think has helped you most? TR: Probably my stubbornness, which can be bad and good. But in my case, that stubbornness has led to survival has led to thriving has led to success has led to taking risks. Yeah, you know, stubbornness be an awful thing. I’m Dutch. I was born with it. AW: I didn’t know what you’re gonna say. stubbornness. Yeah, I think if we’re honest, all of those traits that really propel us, there’s a good side of it. TR:  I think when you’re stubborn, it means you’re ready to fight the fight. You’re not afraid to back down, you bring in your courage, you bring in what you got, you bring in your lady balls, you’re going to do it, you’re going to do it, whatever it takes. I’m going to do it. Once I have left this chapter of my life. I’m in the victory pose. I’m going all the way. Look out world. AW:  Okay. Is there any other general advice that you have for listeners in terms of positive self-talk? TR: I do have one piece of advice. And this is it. The minute you start thinking, I can’t do it, think I can. And I’m going to tell you why this works. Usually when I work with clients in the gym, I will get them going doing something I’ll say now I want you to do the 20 let’s say 20 pound curls, actually do it. And they can’t. Now I tell them Okay, now we’re going to do 20 pound curls. And you can do it. And the minute you say you can you automatically can, and I get them to do it. And then I’ll say and give me five more reps when you’re tired. Five more? No, no, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. And the five reps come out. So your strength in being able to perform at life, whether it’s exercise, eating clean, emotional self-care, or anything you do, lies in your words. And be careful with your words because your brain is always listening. If you just told your brain I can’t well then you get but if you told your brain I can then you can. AW: beautifully put. I am definitely going to quote you on that. Thank you so much for your time and your expertise. Tosca. TR: Oh, thank you. This has been for me, richly rewarding. The time has just flown by, really. AW: Thank you so much. TR: Thank you. THANK YOU for listening and reading!   One last thing – If you’re not already signed up for the TAT email blog, you really are missing half the fun! Just go to TalkAboutTalk.com to sign up for the blog and to access all of the past blogs. I’d love to hear from you.   Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com     The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!:   https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TALK soon!    TalkAboutTalk CORE BELIEF: “When we communicate effectively, we can be a better manager, work colleague, parent, partner and friend.”     TalkAboutTalk BRAND PROMISE: “TalkAboutTalk is the communication learning platform that enriches our relationships and enhances our career success by providing us with knowledge, strategies and confidence.”             ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #27 POSITIVE SELF-TALK & the 3Es of WELLNESS with Tosca Reno appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Self-Talk – we could all be more mindful. Positive self-talk can significantly affect our life satisfaction. Let’s start by adopting five positive mindsets: optimism, perseverance, self-control, focusing on relationships, and being grateful. Then, there are five things we can do right now to improve our self-talk: we can practice gratitude, we can start journaling, we can adopt a morning ritual, we can develop a mantra, and we should all watch our language.  Let’s do this! Links to References SELF-TALK, SUCCESS, HAPPINESS & MINDFULNESS https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/basics/self-talk https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222277408_Speaking_clearly_A_critical_review_of_the_self-talk_literature https://www.forbes.com/sites/briannawiest/2018/04/23/8-traits-that-are-scientifically-proven-to-predict-future-success/#1bda7338655a https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/new-duke-study-early-attention-skills-most-consistent-predictor-academic-success/EiGMLtHMhHDwTkTie7qA1M/   TOSCA RENO BOOKS “The Start Here Diet” – https://amzn.to/2YFL55t “The Eat Clean Vegetarian Cookbook” – https://amzn.to/2KtQsfm   PERSEVERANCE Angela Duckworth’s book GRIT – https://amzn.to/2KziHru   SELF CONTROL & DELAYED GRATIFICATION https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5010404   GRATITUDE Wood, A.M., et al., Gratitude & well-being: A review & theoretical integration, Clinical Psychology Review (2010): https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/pdfs/GratitudePDFs/2Wood-GratitudeWell-BeingReview.pdf https://ggia.berkeley.edu/practice/gratitude_journal https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/24/678232331/if-you-feel-thankful-write-it-down-its-good-for-your-health   OPTIMISM https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/optimism-and-your-health http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.937.443&rep=rep1&type=pdf   Talk About Talk & Dr. Andrea Wojnicki Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup “Building RESILIENCE” episode with Tosca Reno – https://talkabouttalk.com/25-building-resilience-with-tosca-reno/ Andrea’s email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   THANK YOU for listening! And reading!   One last thing – If you’re not already signed up for the Talk About Talk email blog, you really are missing half the fun! Just go to TalkAboutTalk.com to sign up for the blog and to access all of the past blogs. I’d love to hear from you.   Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com     The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!:   https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TALK soon!         ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #26 SELF-TALK & MINDSETS with Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (Self-Talk 2of3) appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Resilience: the capacity to recover from adversity. Meet Tosca Reno, “the woman with 9 lives,” Eat Clean founder, and master wellness coach.  In this, the first in this 3-episode series on Self-Talk, Tosca takes us through the “set and reps” necessary for resilience, including seeking challenges, positive stress (or eustress), taking ownership, practicing gratitude, and being kind and compassionate. Yes, adversity can make you stronger!  References & Links Tosca Reno Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/toscareno/ Website – toscareno.com Tosca’s Books – https://toscareno.com/books/ Recommendations – “Legends & Losers” by Christopher Lochhead – legendsandlosers.com Lianne Liang – lianneliang.com Resources & References Eustress or positive stress – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress Abraham Hicks & the Emotional Scale – https://www.abraham-hicks.com Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   Interview Transcript Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you very much Tosca for joining us and talking with us today about resilience. Tosca Reno: It’s my pleasure to be with you. Thanks for inviting me. AW: I thought we would start at the bottom. TR: Oh, it’s a good place when you have to go up. AW: Yeah. So what did your life look like? And how did you end up there when you were at the bottom? TR: So it was in my 30s. And I weighed 204 pounds that my heaviest, so I was obese, and clinically, not well. So I was beginning to get the early signs of type two diabetes. I knew like a lifestyle diabetes. And my father had died of heart disease young, he was only 64. And I was starting to get heart palpitations. So I was really young to be experiencing all these things. And I had a young family as well. So life at the time was really just a series of having babies and moves. My then husband was with Imperial Oil. And so we were always moving for his career. So there’s really not a lot of opportunity for me to work, even though I was I was schooled myself and wanted to have a career. But I was blessed to be able to stay home with my children. It’s just that I was very underserved, and felt the lack of worth and then lonely and isolated and ate my way into oblivion. It wasn’t cute. AW: So then, you divorced him? TR: Yes, I made a decision to go out on my own. So in 1999, I served notice, and I went back to school as a mature student and got my degree in education. I have a couple of other degrees but got my degree in education thinking, Okay, I’m going to, I’m going to become a teacher, I’ll teach and I’ll make a living for myself, because I wasn’t really at the time gainfully employed. So did that. And then, you know, as luck would have it, began my journey into wellness, albeit with a limited scope, because then I thought wellness was simply strapping on your running shoes and running, I hadn’t thought about changing the way I ate other than counting calories, which is a foolish notion. And so I really needed an education in that. But first, I had to fall a few times. So literally, I strapped on my running shoes in my fat clothes, got on the treadmill and shut off the back end of it. That was the level of my ignorance. Yeah. And then as luck would have it, as I say, I think the student was ready. So the teacher arrived and the teacher arrived in the form of Robert Kennedy who I didn’t know anything about him. I didn’t know that he was an icon in the bodybuilding industry, or any I knew nothing. He was on the playground with his daughter, he would bring his daughter to school we chatted and I would say foolish things. Like when he asked me if I was working out? And I said, yeah, I’m running. I’m really loving. You know, I sounded so stupid. And I just want I just want to be fit. And he said, If I had a dime for every person who ever said that I’d be a millionaire? Well, I’m not. So he kind of issued me a challenge. When he said, I think you can do better. No one had ever said that to me before. AW: Hmm. TR: But he really took me on and he said, I think you should compete. And I said, Well, what does that mean? What does compete mean? And he said, I think you should compete in a bodybuilding show. So here’s me – now get this. Okay. I’m a schoolteacher, mother of three children all under 20. They’re teenage girls. Formerly fat. And now I’m going to get on a stage in my stripper heels with a bikini. No. But he issued me the challenge. And he said, Well, if you want to change your life, and you want to look like those people in the gym, the ones with the cuts and the muscles … he said, I think you can do it. He says, I’ve trained other people, I don’t train too many. I choose them. I just went, Okay, I’m in, what do I have to do? And I was supremely coachable. Because I had no preconceived notions at all. He just said, You eat what I tell you to eat, you train the way I tell you to train, you do exactly, as I say. We will get you competition ready. And I did. AW: So I was wondering about what people say, when they start to turn things around. And there’s one quote that you just said from Robert, and that’s you can do better. TR: That is him challenging me, I would say that I probably lived a pretty small life and hadn’t really tapped into my full potential. I knew I was strong, but I never tested myself and the gym was a really good place for me to test that. And when he said, you can do better, and you can lift heavier and you can go harder. I believed him. Although I really wasn’t going on experience. He just said, do what I tell you to. I mean, I didn’t even know what a tri-cep was. He asked me to flex out my tri-ceps. I went I don’t know what that is. AW: So awesome. TR: Yeah, that’s pretty green. But when he challenged me, what he didn’t realize was a bowl. I go. And so he was maybe somewhat surprised, although he might have made an educated guess. But I dug in. And every time I hit the weights in the gym, it was just like an absolutely liberating experience for me. And I grew stronger. I was one of those people who said I was unusual because I grew stronger as the sets developed, as opposed to usually people are strong in the beginning and they fade out the end, I get stronger, which is unusual. AW: As you go through the rep? TR: Yeah.  So by set four or five, like the first two are throwaways, and by set four or five, I’m really in it. So I was unusual in that way, and he could push me and he did. AW: Do you think that working out is a metaphor for life? TR: Damn, yeah, I think I think you could measure that one up against resilience. Yeah, actually, it’s the word eustress, positive stress that tests us challenges us. And if we’re up for the challenge, we get better, we develop, and we grow. So for me, that’s absolutely what happened. I never felt so alive and so switched on. And so in charge of myself as when I was in the gym… AW: And it was probably a combination of physiological right, as well as psychological impact. Because you… TR: for me, working out…. AW: You’re  giving me shivers. I literally, physically have the shivers here. Yeah. TR: It’s an attitude adjustment. I mean, yes, it kept my booty in shape. I mean, I got a booty I didn’t have one before. But what I really found was the power of my mental state, the emotional state that’s shifted so much. When you’re in the gym, that experience harms no one, the weights don’t talk back, they don’t ask you for a peanut butter sandwich. They don’t %&$#@ and moan. It’s you and them, right? It’s your story. It’s the dialogue you’re having with that equipment, running your body. And I really like the challenge of it. AW: Wow, I never thought of all those things. When I go into the gym next time, it’s going to be a different experience. For me. back to when you were you said 205 pounds. And you left your first husband. And I read in one of your books that you said, You finally decided that you were going to seek freedom and happiness. And I thought, wow, a lot of people would be seeking revenge. TR: Yeah. AW: How did you come to that  positive mind space? TR:  You know, I just knew with my first husband, that there would never be freedom if I was looking to get revenge, because that’s what he loved best. He loved to dig in and be stubborn. And I thought my best freedom will be to seek success on my terms. And I’ll be done with him. He doesn’t owe me anything. I don’t want anything. If I’m really going to make a clean break, then it’s going to be clean. And that means no expectations from him. So I was good at that. AW: And then the second big dip in your life was when your step son passed away. And then Robert died of cancer within a year right? TR: Yes. AW:  How did you take yourself out a second time you must have just been like-  come on, people…! TR: I’m just coming out of it, I will … in 2011, my stepson from complications from a car accident. He had lived for 13 years as basically a vegetable. We had him at home here and cared for him. And I wrote my first book for him because it was all about how to, you know, eat soup. He couldn’t eat, but he could eat soup. So that, you know, there’s a lot of learning for me. I was definitely on new ground. And then Robert’s passing just was a massive shock. No one saw it coming. Right. After my step son passed in 2011. And not even 12 months later, Bob was palliative. He was stage four, lung cancer. AW: And so and for the listeners that don’t know, Bob was superhuman. He was Arnold Schwarzenegger’s buddy, right? TR: He brought Arnold here. He has been in this house at this table with all of my family. And Robert, ripped out plate loaded leg press 250 pounds on Christmas Day. The man was no wimp. But his body at six foot two once Mr. Cannes International, you know, he had a great body, even though he was 20 years older, the man still had that good body. But the cancer ate him. Basically ate him alive. AW: how long did he have cancer before he passed away? TR: Well, we got the diagnosis on January 27, 2012. And he passed April 12. AW: Wow. same year. TR: And in a way that was a blessing because he was not a good sufferer. And I didn’t know any of what was yet to come. Okay, so it was enough that Braden passed. And then Robert, a year later, I would be bankrupting our publishing business, his publishing business, which he had handed over to me in his will, but I knew nothing about publishing. So then I had to do the forensic accounting and learn, you know, the really the deadly truth that he had been involved in for five years prior to his passing, but I had to pull the trigger on bankruptcy, and his employees did not like it…. So as a result of that, I lost my business, which was separate from his, my first book out of that whole terrible debacle was a commercial failure, because that was basically roadkill. And then I learned that this whole house in which you’re sitting, and if you hear noise in the background, it’s the waterfall in the estate and the grounds and AW: It’s stunning! I look out, I do see waterfalls, I see forests, TR: …leveraged completely against the bank, there had been no mortgage and no debt, and he had leveraged it against the bank. So when I leave from here, I leave with my skin, which is hard for people to believe. So the first dark period was basically divorcing my husband, he was abusive, and all the rest of it, the second is divorcing this life. And it, it did not come easy. This work, I had to really, it’s been seven years of slogging and doing the emotional work. And that really brings me to that the three E’s component where I learned, I could exercise and I could eat clean, but I couldn’t fix myself, I had to get deep and down and the fugly cry and the snotty nose and the, you know, the painful looking inside your heart to get to a point where I can now walk away from here and be grateful for being clean of it. AW: So do you think it helps people who have traumatic-  for some people it is a traumatic event or some kind of negative situation in their life – for them to physically leave? TR:  I do, because I think — and I’m glad you said some people, because it’s not for everybody. Let’s face it, I gave this a try. I’ve been sort of hitting a dead horse for at least six years here trying to make it work. So I have no shame in that fact, I did my best, but it’s sucking the life out of me. So for me, my strategy was I’ll do my best. But at some point, I’m going to have to make the cut. Other people just have to run right away. You know, we all have an individual response. But I can say this now, I couldn’t say it that I can say this. Now. I know that Braden’s passing, and Robert’s passing, and the business and the house and the life in the material, all of that. These were all lessons. And was I student enough to handle them and absorb what I needed to absorb? I would come out. Okay. So I think I can say this now that I’m coming out the other end of it, and I paid attention. I did the work. AW: Wow. Okay. TR: Because there are points when you’re looking in the mirror, and you’re looking at yourself, and you’re thinking, I have stood in front of this manure pile so long, I don’t actually know what I’ve got anymore. And that’s how I felt there was actually a point where I thought I should just quit everything. I’ve got nothing to give, I have no feelings of worth in myself. I just want to quit everything. And some not good thoughts about life. Let me say,… AW: I can imagine. I mean, you wouldn’t be human if you didn’t go there at some point, right? TR: I never hit the bottle or drugs or anything. But there was a time where I just thought I just want to step off. I’m so tired. Yeah. AW: So I know people who are typically happy people and highly functioning people who for some amount of time will lose their sight of a future goal. And then they seem to lose their happiness. Do you think that there’s something in that? TR: Well, yeah, put it this way. The thing that gives me happiness in this life is to know that I can change a person’s life, I can change a person’s status, how they think about themselves, how they feel about themselves. With the knowledge I’ve learned over these last 20 years, I can make a difference. And I have, so that gives me great joy. So if I’m not doing that, if I’m not aligned with my purpose, I’m going to feel pain. So if I’m not doing that, then I’m losing sight of everything, then I’m going down. But fortunately, I have a daughter, Rachel, some know her as Dr. Rachel, who just is that person who has an amazing ability to connect. And she knows when somebody needs help. So you know, the first time I was down, flat out in bed,  flatlining, pretty much after Bob died. And she said you need to start meditating. And she just gave me the Headspace app and said start here. And it was nothing. It was like a you know, 10 minute freebie app, try it. The second time when I basically flatlined on my career, she hooked me up with an executive coach. And she has basically resuscitated my career because she, she connected me with what I needed to know about myself. Here we go. Now I’m like, Oh, my God, I can’t wait to get up every day. AW: That’s amazing. TR: It’s feeling good. I’m feeling good again. AW: What’s interesting about that response is that you’re actually helping other people. And you’re helping yourself at the same time. It’s almost like that double whammy, right? TR: It’s interesting. So I still need the title for that book. Once I thought it was gonna, I was gonna call it model of resilience. And I thought, you get that diva out of there. Let’s just get in the trenches, because being resilient is not, you know, ABC simple, it’s not math, it’s to get to that point where you are resilient means you gotta fall, a lot of times, you got to go through failure. Get up, keep going, fall again, fall again, and then get up one day and go, yeah, I think I’m finally here at the point where I could call success. I know, I’m going to fall again. AW: Do you ever imagine if you hadn’t had this adversity, what you would be doing and maybe more importantly, how you would be thinking about yourself, and how different that would be? TR: I think I would not be a good person, I think I would have gone down the road of materialism and the next it bag, and you know what car I can drive, I’m not sure. Because that’s not really my true nature. But I could feel that it was going that way. And so now I can say two words in the same sentence that don’t sound right at all, grief and gratitude. I can grieve for my lost husband and my son and the business and the life past. But I can be grateful at the same time, because they have given me some of the greatest lessons of my life. AW: Wow. Wow. So over the last, I guess, seven years, as you’ve been developing your online business and getting clients and now introducing them to the three E’s, I’m wondering if some of them have shared stories with you about resilience that you could also share? TR: Yes, I can. You know, some of the greatest nourishment I get for my soul comes from the stories people are willing to share at the times I least expected. So there is a story of a young family, a friend now. But in the day, she was a follower of eating clean, and they had five sons. And they have gone through financial hard times lost, everything had nothing. That mother made a decision to continue to nourish her family with eating clean food, because she said, If I don’t keep us well with eating clean foods, we will lose our minds. Wow. And every day, they would feed their children, their young family, the right vegetables, the right nutrition, not the cheap stuff. But you know, they made that sacrifice, so that mentally they could stay in the game. Because they lost their house. They lost their livelihood, they lost their savings, they lost everything. status is a thing that we create as human beings, we make we take it as a dirty word, but we make a lot of decisions based on status. And when you lose all of that you are down. And it was the nutrition and the structure of how to care for yourself through nourishing yourself with clean foods. She said that is what gave her the stamina, the will to keep going. They’ve since rebuilt their lives, have a beautiful life again, there’s so many stories there literally thousands of stories. I remember one time I was at an event, I could see that there was a mom and a dad and a young sort of teenage girl. They were waiting, waiting, waiting, they want a private moment with me. Finally got a chance to speak to them. The mother and the father were just like clinging to each other. And the young girl said,…  Oh, dear, I just….want to thank you for giving me my life. And I said, What do you mean, she said, I just got out of the hospital, I have been severely anorexic. And I read your book, Eating Clean. And it gave me permission to eat and love myself as I was … AW: Wow. TR: I survived because you taught me how to eat. And the parents were just sobbing. It was a mess. And it was so beautiful. And it was just that moment. So that’s sort of, yeah, it’s just the experience of that to feel that in your soul. Right? And to know that that’s happening, like for every 10 stories I hear, there’s 100 I don’t AW: Right. Fantastic. I kind of asked you this before, but I want to ask again, maybe in a general sense. And the question is, does adversity make you stronger? And and I want to coach that in a specific question and culture. I’ve heard people say that Hillary Clinton didn’t have a story because she never experienced adversity. And perhaps that contributed to her lack of followers, right, and voters. So do you think that adversity makes you stronger? Do you have to experience adversity to achieve a certain strength in life? TR: you do. Everybody needs a hero’s journey. And everybody’s got one who’s worth listening to. I think if you don’t have adversity, you’re living a small life. And I can say with 100% certainty prior to my, my dark times, if you will, I was living a small life. I didn’t put myself out there. I lived safe, I played small. I didn’t dare I didn’t take risks. adversity, it’s like wine. Some of the best ones wines grow in the crappiest soil because they’ve had to learn how to grow. They’ve had to dig and fight for it and grab the nutrients and stretch for the water and stretch for the sun. I feel the same way. I feel like if it’s an easy ride, you poke your finger at it, the whole thing might evaporate. But if you touch me and you push me, and you test me with something difficult, you will find that I can stand up and I can take a hit. And I will give back and I will love just as deeply and just as strongly. I’m not embittered. AW: Wow, I did not anticipate that answer. But I love it. I love your point. It’s actually empowering. Just stretch harder, because you might fail, but you’ll probably make a difference to yourself and to other people. TR: Yeah. And that really is again, with plants. It’s called eustress or positive stress and it teaches plants to be stronger. And I think the same thing of people – that we need those difficult moments in life. We are given what we can handle. And it hasn’t been easy, all of this, it should have maybe, but it hasn’t… AW: So you are handed only what you can handle. Do you think that’s true? TR: Well, I do because I’m here. And I’m not a raging alcoholic. Although we are sharing a glass of wine! I do. No one ever said that the ride in life was going to be easy. No one ever said that. Right? AW: Right. TR: And I’m quite fine with having a good life. But a good life may also include some of those challenges that make us better people. AW: Right. Last question, I want to ask you about resilience. And it’s probably the toughest question, but is there something that you can offer in terms of advice for people that are feeling helpless and hopeless? TR: Oh, yeah. And I have been one of those people. So have deep compassion For anyone struggling. I read recently that if you look around you and your daily life, 50% of the people are struggling with a crisis of some kind. So first of all, we need to up our compassion game quite a lot. Secondly, we need to practice gratitude. Because even in the moments where we feel life is just giving it to us and giving it to us and it’s relentless. There are things to be grateful for. Yes, I lost Robert. But I gained so much from him. He taught me so much about myself, and the lessons are still coming. Yes, I lost my livelihood. But it taught me to rebrand, yes, I lost my son, but his inability to move or eat or think or swallow or talk sharpened mine. I have been … enriched …for every one of those, and I’m thankful for them. AW: Well, thank you very much for sharing that with us. Would you say that one of the main messages is, is gratitude? TR: Gratitude, because it raises your vibrational energy so much. And there’s, you know, even Viktor Frankl in the concentration camps, practiced gratitude, and look what he had to put up with, right? So we can find things to be grateful for, if we just want to try to do that. AW: And there’s all sorts of research I’ve read about, for example, writing down three or five things that you’re grateful for every day increases your life satisfaction, but I feel like there’s got to be something between helpless and hopeless, and then gratitude, right? TR: Well, there’s something which I talked about in my three E’s of wellness called the emotional scale, which is by Abraham Hicks. And it basically teaches you that the lowest vibrating emotion is shame, and the highest is joy. And we’re not enjoy all the time. But even going from shame to the next higher vibrational emotion, which might be a anger is better than shame. Because at least if you’re angry, you’re still alive and reacting to something, you can’t get to a higher vibrational emotional feeling all the way from shame. It goes one emotion at a time. And the quickest way to shape or shift your emotional energy is through practicing gratitude, it’s a way to actually move the needle on your vibrational soul. So it’s a leverage or a catalyst it is and the next thing you can do and this is where the pay it forward thing comes from is to practice an act of kindness for no reason at all, other than to do it out of self-love. So in other words, make a jar of butternut squash soup for your brand new neighbor, leave it at the front door, knock on the door and say here, I wanted to give this to you to make your day better. No expectation of thanks or anything. See how that feels when you do that. Or go into I did this recently, I went into a little greasy spoon diner, in my town here in Caledon. And I saw a group of students they were studying, but they were sitting around a table. And I just went up to the cash and I said wherever they’re having whatever’s on their table right now I’m paying for that, because I was so impressed by their eagerness to work together. And I didn’t want any thanks. I just pay the bill and walked away. Doing something like that takes you out of whatever it is you’re mired in into a whole new place. You did it purely out of your soul. And there’s no quicker way along with gratitude to shift that energy level for yourself. AW: That’s very empowering to and it’s contagious, right? TR: very contagious. Yeah. AW: Okay, now I’m going to move us on to the five rapid fire questions that I asked every guest. Are you ready? TR: I’m ready. Ready for rapid fire! AW: First question. What are your pet peeves? TR:  Oh my god. Poor spelling? Yes, I can’t stand it. AW: Well, I read your book, one of your books, and it has definitely no typos. TR: …or things like okay, it’s a workout. So that means it’s WORKOUT. All together workout, AW: No hyphen and no space. TR: That’s exactly right. So know the words you’re using, especially if you’re in an industry where the word workout is going to be used a lot. Spell it right. Or if you’re going to lose weight, but not loose weight. Please, you’re gonna LOSE weights not LOOSE, you know? So I’m picky about that. AW: Funny. Okay, second, what type of learner Are you… TR:  kinesthetic! AW: I’m not surprised! TR: I have to be in it. I have to. I really have to be in it. I got to touch it. Feel it. Smell it. Do it. AW: Yeah, I think that affected you when you were starting to one word workout? TR: Beautiful. AW: Oh, yeah. TR: Because I could see that was the thing. Like I needed to feel it all. It’s just, yeah. AW: Okay. Third question, introvert or extrovert. TR: I’m a combination. So there’s this wonderful book. Who wrote it? I’m trying to remember – I  think it’s called “Quiet.” AW: Susan Cain. TR: Okay, thank you. So I am a person who wants to be extroverted on stage in a crowd in public. But when I’m home, I’m an introvert. I think there’s a word for that. I don’t know what it is. But I definitely know that I have to be both of those people. AW: Ambivert.  You are highly functional. I know you well enough to know that you are highly functional. When you’re on stage. You are gaining energy from your audience. TR: I am on fire. AW: And when you’re at home and you’re working at your desk, you are gaining energy from whatever you’re typing. TR: 100% I’m thinking I just learned something. My IQ went up by a couple of percentage points. That’s me. AW: Okay. Question number four, communication preference for personal conversations. TR: Personal. It’s got to be face-to-face. I have to look them in the eye. Because I remember eye color and something about looking at a person’s eyes and seeing the color of their soul in their eyes just does it for me. AW: So to some extent you are visual? TR: Yeah, I guess. But I read somewhere I read this. Like the most beautiful thing you can do for a person in their day is if it’s your barista, if it’s your person who’s packing your groceries, doesn’t matter who it is. Take a moment to look in their eyes long enough to register the color. So that’s what I do. And yours are fantastic. By the way. AW: Thank you. I’m going to try and do that. TR: There’s something about the eyes. Yeah. So. And for those who don’t know, Andrea, her eyes are brilliant blue. AW: Yours aren’t so bad. You know, you’re a looker! Okay, fifth question, podcast or blog or email newsletter that you recommend the most? TR:  I love this – it’s a little bit off the wall. I love Legends and Losers by Christopher Lochhead. He’s an expat from Canada. His podcast is all about hope for the person who can’t learn in in normal situations. And he’s made a complete success of himself. So now he’s running this podcast and he’s irreverent. And he’ll drink scotch on the podcast sometimes, boy, he looks down the barrel and he gives it to you. And I love that black and white. I love him for business advice and for, you know, picking me up and getting me going in my day. Because you know, when you’re doing an entrepreneurial business, you’re often alone. I love to hear a voice that that helps me get in touch with my business self. AW: What are you usually doing when you’re listening to a podcast? Are you sitting at your table listening to the podcast? driving? TR:  Yeah, driving. When I work out, I have to listen to rock. And then another Canadian podcast I love is living well, with Lianne Liang, who is an ex CTV host. And just she’s just wonderful. I love her voice. She has a great series of connections. And of course — Andrea’s! AW: Thanks!, so Okay, so I’m gonna put links to those in the shownotes for everybody, as well as to all of your books and to your website. If someone wants to get a hold of you, what’s the best way to connect with you? TR: you can go to ToscaReno.com and all of my connectors are there. I’m on all the social media platforms. You can find me there and I’m very good at answering email. AW: Thank you. Is there anything else you want to add about resilience? TR: Embrace the growth when you are feeling like the earth feels unsteady under your feet because the circumstances are unknown to you and everything that you thought you knew about the way your life was going feels strange. That’s growth. Embrace it, hold on for the ride. And let yourself spread out into that giant, beautiful person that you’re meant to be – because your purpose lives there. AW: Okay, I will leave it at that. Thank you so much. TR: Thanks for having me.   I’d love to hear from you.   Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com     The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TALK soon!     ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #25 BUILDING RESILIENCE: Sets & Reps – with Eat Clean founder & master wellness coach Tosca Reno appeared first on Talk About Talk.

 Do you have effective communication skills? Are you a confident communicator? In this 20 minute podcast episode, Dr. Andrea Wojnicki teaches you the 5 simple steps that will improve your communication skills. It’s as simple as ABCDE!   References & Links Communication Skills & General References Professor Amy Cuddy, a social psychologist at Harvard on power posing Stephen Covey and his 7 Habits of Highly Effective People – Habit #5 was “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” Epictetus, a Greek philosopher said, “We have two ears and one mouth – so that we can listen – twice as much as we speak.” FastCompany on communication skills (such as asking questions, displaying positive body language, and active listening) Virgin CEO Sir Richard Branson says that communication skills are the most important skills any leader can possess. Research on Benefits of Deep Breathing https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/relaxation-techniques-breath-control-helps-quell-errant-stress-response http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.851.7680&rep=rep1&type=pdf https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.2975%2F28.2005.399.402 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2005.11.189 Talk About Talk Episodes Referenced #24 “The ABCDEs of Communication.” #1 Body Language with Cynthia Barlow #2 USING YOUR VOICE – with baritone opera singer Bradley Christensen. #4 LANGUAGE with Dr Josep Gonzalez #9 YOUR PERSONAL BRAND with Michael Boydell #10 COLOUR with Daryl Aitken, Jenn Purkis & Lori Ryerson #11 STORYTELLING – with Harvard professor Jerry Zaltman #16 FASHION with Toronto Fashion Week’s Carolyn Quinn #17 POSSESSIONS with Professor Russell Belk #21 TRUST with Baron Manett Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   I’d love to hear from you. Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup   TALK soon!   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by TalkAboutTalk. The post #24 The ABCDEs of COMMUNICATION SKILLS with Dr. Andrea Wojnicki appeared first on Talk About Talk.

On swearing – Do you ever wonder why some people use profanity and others do not? Linguistics professor Darin Flynn leads us through a fascinating discussion on the taboo topic of swearing, including types of swear-words, how swear words change over time, personality types that are more likely to use profanity, and the risks associated with profanity. (Note this is the CLEAN version of this podcast episode. There is also an EXPLICIT version). References & Links Professor Darin Flynn University of Calgary faculty page – https://www.ucalgary.ca/dflynn/ “Shift Happens” interview – https://ucalgary.ca/dflynn/swearing “White people should never rap the n-word: A linguist breaks it down“- https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/white-people-should-never-rap-the-n-word-a-linguist-breaks-it-down “What the &*$%?: What qualifies as a “bad” word nowadays?” – http://www.calgaryherald.com/swerve/features/What+What+qualifies+word+nowadays/8873621/story.html Profanity Resources & References Books: “What the F” by Benjamin Bergen – https://amzn.to/2LLwc9T “The Stuff of Thought” by Steven Pinker – https://amzn.to/2JtBCF “Why We Curse” by Timothy Jay – https://amzn.to/2LOtm3S “Cursing in America” by Timothy Jay – https://amzn.to/2XEdWSb  Articles & other: Youtube video of two guys giving each other the finger – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOJ0HpVvAFE George Carlin’s – 7 Words you can’t say on TV – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbZhpf3sQxQ “Strong Language” blog – https://stronglang.wordpress.com/ Jonathan Haidt TEDTalk– Moral Roots of Liberals and Conservatives (reactions to statue of David) – https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind Steven Pinker – https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/smarter-living/the-case-for-cursing.html Linguist Taylor Jones – https://www.languagejones.com/recent-work John McWhorter on Anti-racism as the new religion – https://www.thedailybeast.com/antiracism-our-flawed-new-religion and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGJbrLs_8_0 Iain McGilchrist interviews – http://iainmcgilchrist.com/videos/ Talk About Talk Weekly Email Blog – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Andrea – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   Interview Transcript – Swearing Professor Darin Flynn: There is a connection between swearing and in marketing. Sometimes it’s just about getting a bit of an edge and swearing can give you that. But people will just stand on the edge of something and get away with it. The most striking example is probably The French Connection UK, which was such a successful campaign. Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: So, recently my 10 year old daughter saw someone wearing a shirt. It said FC UK, and she’s did a double take. And then she looked at me and her eyes went bug-eyed. I told her exactly what you just said, it’s a marketing ploy. It actually stands for French Connection, United Kingdom, and she was like, Oh my gosh, why would you wear that? I said, you just looked at her, again with bug eyes. That’s why she’s wearing it. That’s why it exists. It really works. Yeah. AW: I started by asking Professor Darin Flynn whether I should call him Professor Flynn or Darin.  His response set the tone for the rest of the conversation. DF: Darin’s fine, please. The whole point of swear words is it, it just creates an informal aura. So it creates a strange disconnect between Professor Flynn and then saying   ?   and it’s just – It’s like you’re giving yourself an epileptic seizure by kind of going back and forth between the two. They are such two different modes that even my brain would have a hard time moving back and forth. AW: That could be your brand though. You’re that guy! DF:  Yeah, I just prefer Darin, if you don’t mind. AW: I don’t mind at all. Thank you very much, Darin, for joining us here today. I thought it would be best perhaps to start with a more, I guess, technical question. So is there a certain sound that makes a word more likely to stay in our vernacular as a swear word? DF: Yeah, it’s something short and cut off. A swear word has the effect of making people go “huh!” and that’s pretty much what defines a swear word. And that feeling usually starts in childhood when you’re talking about something taboo and then somebody will cut you off or you realize it yourself and you cut yourself off. They tend to be really short words that are cut off. You don’t want to kind of drag on if you have a long word. So, especially in English with essentially anything, if there’s like two or three or more syllables. That’s something that’s a fancy fancy word. Whereas, a nice little one syllable word is a good short, informal word and it doesn’t carry on. And it’s also been found – in some research by Ben Bergen who wrote this lovely book called What the F? And he’s a cognitive scientist in California who noticed that largely English words, even one syllable words would have an equal chance of ending with a sound that we call these words something sonorant. So that includes words that sound like vowels, but also sonorous consonants are things like L-M-N , they’re a bit softer. AW:  Okay. DF: At the other extreme are harsh cut off sounds, which we call stops. PTK are the best examples but also BDG. And so there’s a 50-50 chance of ending in one of those at the ends of words in general. But in swear words, the cut off forms are much more common. So like, ?  , ?   you know, things that end with K. They’re cut off really quickly. AW: That makes sense. And actually, your face lit up like this, I was thinking the word shock, right? It’s just shock. ?   . They’re shocking works. DF: That’s right. So there is some truth to the four letter word in that, it tends to be words that begin with a consonant and then end with a consonant. And it just so happens with English writing that we often will write, you know, with CK or P or something. You can actually make a word, more vulgar sounding, if you shorten it. So they are, you know, words like Hispanic. If you say SPIC, you know, and I’m sorry for the  slur, but that means it’s an offensive word for Hispanic people, right? And then Bergen was told by one by students recently for people that have Asperger’s. They’ll call them SPERG. Just the end. Ending with a consonant, but also just one syllable. And this is really quite common. So you’ll find one of the most offensive words nowadays is the word retard. The most offensive words nowadays are the slurs, and so this is worse by you when you say TARD. AW: Oh, wow. So it’s a doubly offensive term? DF: Yeah,  It is culturally determined. So it’s in a cultural context, you, you say, the word ?   or whatever, even as a little kid without in a context where you wouldn’t even have heard that word. But the adults around you will go like that (!). And then once they’ve done that, you realize that effect and then maybe you’ll even be told off. And in traumatic cases, you’ll have people you know, get their mouths washed out with soap. AW: It’s amazing when I tell people about this episode that I’m doing – how this is getting into the topic of taboo, but how some people are like, really?… and some people are like, awesome!!! DF: Yeah, yeah. Well, those people that go one way or another, it aligns with different personality types that some people are. Some people are likely to say awesome! Some people are like to go hmm.  You might have heard of Jonathan Haidt? He had a really popular TED talk a few years ago, where he’s showing, the sculpture of David, I think it is, to two people. One will just be just transfixed by the beauty. Just like awesome gorgeous. The other person will be kind of uncomfortable with the nudity. And so he was just pointing out that you could tell me on the spot a whole lot about those two people and so like one… AW:  Wow! DF: Yeah.  One was more likely to vote for George Bush and he had a sense of who was more conservative. And this is important because a lot of these personality traits are set in advance. People tend to be born with these predispositions. So then you also have people reacting one way or another to swear words. It tells you a lot about them. AW: Back to the technical part of cursing, can swear words be categorized? DF: So there are the ones that are rooted in taboo topics. Often they don’t really make sense for a kid. They might have an innate sense of things that are filthy, like poop or pee or something, but it’s all the way people react to – all the sense of disgust. You tend to associate certain areas with that gut reaction and it’s negative. AW: So there’s filth, there’s sex, there’s religion and deity, right? DF: That’s right. So they have some commonalities. There’s some sense of taboo. We’ll have filth, sex or things that should be kind of indoors know, close-in, in private. A lot of people feel that way about, well, pretty much any kind of body function. But a lot of it is related to the outdoors. There is a sense of a boundary. A really good analogy in our American context is this concept of the wall. Building the wall. Some people that want the wall versus people that don’t. So the wall protects first of all, inside and outside people. So those slurs for instance, they mark in the worst way possible somebody was in inside or outside. AW: us versus them? DF: Yeah. And I think the sense of disgust that people have with body parts and body functions and so on – is often tied up with that too. It’s has to do with basic survival. People, you know, we know people do get wiped out by diseases people will often associate outsiders with danger or diseases. There’s a strong biological sense to mark things outside or inside and you want to keep track of this. And this means that setting boundaries also relates to morals. So, you know, do you have sex with your mother? Do you have sex with your sister? These are all setting up moral boundaries. Again, there’s biological reasons. In that instance, it’s not really clear whether it’s a chicken or egg thing with what created the taboo or not. So the point is that this is where swear words come from – is all these areas where, you know, you don’t have sex with your mother so like ?   or and we’re even whether you’re homosexual or not right? ?   . The worst possible offensive terms – so I think you can probably come up with a unified theme through all of them. It’s associated with basic emotions like fear. But strangely enough at that moment when something is really kind of intimidating, there’s an opportunity for excitement too. We’re funny creatures. And so both the positive and the negative at the same time. It’s something really strange. So you can get these reversals were awful can become awesome. AW: awful and awesome! DF: the more recent example is ?   . So ?   will be associated historically semantically with just something that’s very repellent and disgusting and it’s full of germs and it’ll kill you and it’s something you want to avoid. But then people will talk about this is the ?   . AW: I’m the ?   . DF: And that’s because of meanings that are complicated. Because you first of all, we all know that when one meaning is activated, the opposite meaning is activated too. So when you think something big than you think of smaller. When you think something, you know, dirty, it kind of activates the concept of clean. So you define light with darkness. Or so you can say that light is the absence of darkness, for instance. And good is like the absence of evil, or truth is the absence of lying. And so, often part of the definition of something is its opposite. One of the more famous examples was that example I gave you — awful versus awesome — when you see the word all has that double meaning. ?   is another great example. There’s a whole bunch of detail, interesting detail in the meanings that you can build off. So when you take a work like ?   there’s something really raw and real about it. There’s nothing more real than ?   . AW: It stinks. It’s ugly. DF: Ugly. And so when somebody says that they’re ?   . You understand that they’re real, they’re grounded. They’re good. Oddly enough, it’s a positive term, but it’s not in some airy-fairy, angelic way. It’s grounded in reality. So it’s not that the meaning of ?   is completely gone. AW: Another example of what you’re saying with the words activating the opposite – and then the meaning changing but still maintaining the original meaning – is the word sick, right? If you’re sick, you’re going to die and then now I’m sick or that was sick is like the ultimate compliment. Awesome. DF: That’s another term that’s rooted in that what biological sense of trying to stay alive and not being sick. And the sense of disgust that I described earlier that defines so much. Sickness is something you’d want to avoid and get away from. The person who says this is sick is like the snowboarder…. Right? They’re taking risks,  they’re willing to accept the outside, you know, they’re knocking down boundaries. That’s the classic line between introvert and extrovert. And so the extrovert is the one that is open to the outside, open to new experiences, and is willing to knock down or jump over boundaries and allow for the possibility of sickness, meeting new things, but also the payoff is great. And so the more conservative type, the introverted person, is a person who would rather not take the risk. And the reason I am mentioning this is because extraversion is strongly correlated with your swearing rate. If you’re an extrovert versus introverted, it’s quite predictive. AW: So you used the term in an email to me – you used the term sweariness, which I had never heard before, but I love it. So your responses on the Myers Briggs scale for introvert versus extrovert is correlated with your sweariness? DF: Yeah. I did the Myers Briggs when I was a teenager. I’m an E N F G. The extroversion determines your sweariness. So for instance, if you asked you would you like to do a podcast? Well, I can meet somebody new and the topic is swearing. It’s like, Oh, that sounds interesting. And like I said, you can almost predict the kind of person who’s likely to work in this area and be willing to speak to somebody on the podcast. The swearing – it originates in repression, in a way. Once the word is released, it’s like it is a release. It’s cathartic because it breaks the ice.  So if you’re having a really uncomfortable business meeting where people don’t know each other and people are doing small talk, talking about the weather, but you can tell there might be some professional tension. There’s a bit of competitiveness and but then that’s as soon as, you know, somebody gets a paper cut or something.  And you ask – are you okay? And they say, Oh, yeah, it hurts like a ?   . It’s just that moment, you know, that is the turning point of the, you know, make dinner conversation, people having fun and it really allows everybody’s brains to relax in that way. This is research by Steven Pinker, I think he’s the one who originated this idea that he associated swear words with that part of the brain that triggers the flight or fight response. I think it’s really true, it’s related to what we were talking about before, where the stakes are raised. And at that moment, it just brings out a little bit more of yourself in a public context. AW: A friend of mine was telling me that she’s paid thousands of dollars to see Tony Robbins and he swears like a ?   sailor. Have you seen him? DF: Yah. AW:  He does? DF: I think it’s really effective and yet it’s respectful. I watched the Netflix documentary on him and it’s really good. It was really good and yeah, he swears a lot. And I think it does help him in his work. Yeah. AW: I’m actually really interested, as we were talking before, about the evolution of some words and how it becomes to mean the opposite. And then people can start labeling themselves with what was previously a negative one and the N word, which I’m not going to say. (I’ll just refer to it as the N word .) It’s fascinating. People are fascinated and confused .It’s perhaps the most taboo word in our culture.  My son is a basketball player. And he plays with a bunch of black kids. And he said they drop it all the time. And he said, I almost feel like they’re daring me to say it, but I never would. I said good. Don’t. DF: No. So those are actually two completely different words. Right from the slavery days, there was a separate N word that rhymes with ninja. Well, it doesn’t really rhyme with ninja but I say ninja for that one. And that meant dude, guy, without any negative connotation. So, in that one has been around since the days of slavery. It was used even among black slaves with each other. And it’s actually evolved into a whole bunch of meanings now. So there are a dozen meanings. There’s a linguist called Taylor Jones who documented dozens of meanings and it’s quite striking. He said, one meaning that evolved as ninja means me, and then ninja is hungry means I’m hungry. AW: Wow. DF:  This is really common.  We call it semantically bleached, you know, standard term washed away from its meaning. And it doesn’t even mean guy anymore. And that’s just one of many meanings that it can it can even it doesn’t even refer to black people anymore. So there’s this white ninja in my classroom that are, you know, such and such great and so on. I actually have a piece on the N word online. It’s been pretty widely read. I go over how this word is really very different from other words and the N word that ends with trigger is the one that to among blacks and among whites is just so unbelievably offensive. It’s by far like —like off the charts–  offensive in North America, it’s there’s nothing more offensive in the English language. It’s like the nuclear bomb of words. And so much that among blacks, that word is hardly ever used.  Ever. And now the reason why the word — the other N word, the ninja word – can’t be used by whites is that it’s too close to that other one. And so it’s just can’t be used.  In even if you’re surrounded by people… In my article, I emphasize the fact that Eminem is a good example of somebody who was just surrounded by that word, and his music his peers, and it has 00, negative connotations to it, the N word that’s like ninja.  But he still would never use it because he’s not …  just it’s just too risky that he’d be associated with that. AW: So is there a common trajectory or evolution of words like that? DF: The general theme is, is one way that people will take away the sting of a word is by using it among themselves. So if it’s a word that’s meant to be wielded against you, if you start using it with each other. It loses its bite, it loses its power. Yeah, but it doesn’t quite apply in the case of the N word because the N word, even the one that rhymes with trigger, has actually acquired more of its negative meaning more recently. So it used to be a pretty neutral descriptive term for black people, in the same way that people referring to black people as Negros. And so the negative association, it came from the way people were using the word. That association got worse over time. So you’ll sometimes read some old literature from the 1800s. Where they’re using the N word, the one that runs with trigger, but there’s no sense that they’re wielding it like an explosive, taboo word. On the other hand, the just everyday meaning that Ninja, that other word, was also documented way back in the slavery days. And again, it had no negative meetings at the time. It just meant guy and it still does. That’s the most common use of the word. And it’s like, unbelievably frequent. So Chandler Jones did a survey of people that are black that use Twitter, and found that it was just by far the most distinctive word. It’s used at an unbelievable rate. Yeah, the word ninja. And the most common use is guy. It’s also used very effectively with my so my ninja would be my bud. And so you’ll find a girl referring to my boyfriend is my ninja and that sort of thing. And it’s just been completely bleached of its negative content. There’s another theory about how these things happen. Which I’m sympathetic to, but again, I don’t think it applies to the N word. It is that meanings are complicated. I alluded to that a little bit with the word ?   . Where there’s something real and raw ?   you can build off. And so, what happens is the word the N word comes to be associated with stereotypes of black people. And there are a lot of them are very negative. But some of them are kind of, they’re still negative in my mind because their stereotypes and yet you can kind of see them as positive. I think definitely among men there’ll be something you strive for. So like athleticism, musical ability, strength, prowess, creativity, and… Again, these are stereotypes. But even the most racist people will, you know, associate some part of it. Again, it’s negative because they’re stereotypes, but they’ll associate those positive things with that word, in addition to the negative meetings. What happens is, you can take some of these, so then you can take those meanings and run with those. And then those more positive meanings come to the associated with that word. And now of course, the in-group can get away with this. This happened with the queer – famously –  So gay did used to have a negative meaning. And Queer as well. And you could even in the case of queer, you can see its negative meaning. But it started with the in-group taking on some of the positive connotations of that. There’s something about being different and unique and not boring or normal. AW: Not conforming. DF: Not conforming, yeah, there’s something really fun about knocking down barriers. Again, we’re back to that, that old division between certain people. And in that case, it’s, it was a word that was outside or so I’m able to say queer, for instance, even though I’m kind of the boring non queer, but I’m able to use it because you’re a conformist. And I mean, that’s a great example of how this thing was just really successfully removed. That’s what happened with gay too. So when I was younger, to call something gay was definitely derogatory. But not anymore. The success varies with this sort of thing. So in Toronto there’s the slut walk, for instance, which is trying to take the shame this thing.  So back to the N word, the ninja form that which again, has no negative connotations that all of us using all sorts of interesting ways that have nothing to do with even being black. It can be used for animals. Like you can say, like a cat that just jumped. You know, a black person could say that that ninja survived that fall. I can’t believe it! AW: But back to your point, a black person could say that, and no one would think twice about it. But if a white person did everyone’s head would spin. Did that person just say the ninja word or the trigger word? Right? DF: Well, in white English we literally don’t have that ninja word. It’s not there. It’s blocked from entering our language by this other word, right? Because it doesn’t match that when we hear that word we associated with the only where do we have, right? And we only have one N word, they have tons of N-words. And the only one we have in our language, you could almost say isn’t part of their language. Right? There’s zero use for black people. It’s such an awful word. Why would they even have it? So it’s what we call it faux amis. And you remember, in between French and English, it’s a term that comes from English has for so many words in French. The point is that we end up with lots and lots of words that are French in English. English speakers have a particularly false sense of confidence that they understand French, but then you’ll often end up with these faux amis that feels like a false friend. Like black English, black versus white English, it’s like, well, this is English so of course I understand it, and then the association is directly in your head. So Hispanics will often get away with using the N word a lot. And I mean, the most striking examples are rappers who will use the N word and then you look at some of them in the video, and it’s like wow, that guy so white! I’m kind of surprised that he can get away with it. There are examples pf rappers who aren’t black, but you’d never guess. And then others that are Hispanic, but then when you look into them. It turns out both their parents were actually European, Hispanic and then so they’re technically Latinos that are using the N word. But they share the common experience with African Americans of being minorities within the white population. AW: So I want to ask you – I’m really interested in in lists, that hopefully will completely describe a phenomenon. And one of them is motivations for swearing. Is there a list of motivations? So you said, when your dad’s working on the car, I’m guessing that’s either pain or frustration? DF: Yes, yes, it can be more negative, but it can also be positive, an exclamation of excitement over something, or, it’s pure emotion, right? And the reason why it’s good to focus on those is neither of those are necessarily negative in relation to other people. So there’s two really interesting aspects about swear words is that, on the one hand, the most offensive swear words nowadays, the ones that young people just consider just beyond …, all have to do with derogating, especially minorities, right? AW: yes, sexual minorities, racial minorities. Sexism. DF: Right after the N word is the C word for women. So offensive right? So derogative, especially to the ones that are less powerful, let’s say, in society. And so that those terms are so offensive, meaning that people don’t use those words. The words that people do use might be expressing negative meaning, but not necessarily toward somebody. It would be against— that the damn car, the ?   car, or something like that. It’s not mean… My dad loves his car. He said, it’s just, it’s just he’s frustrated with that, and he’s not denigrating the car.  It’s an inanimate object. And then on ?   plus side, you get, you know, get in the ?   car, it just shows that you’re very serious. You’re trying to be really serious. You need to get in the car now. It’s there’s no sense that the car is being derogated. It just it conveys the intensity, or even the person you’re talking to, they’re not being denigrated, either. AW: In simple terms, maybe a kind of one way of categorizing — and this may have been done or it may be way too simple? But there’s, it’s a two-by-two where you have positive and negative, and then you have other directed and not other directed or even self-directed, right? So it’s, it’s like, getting the ?   car is negative, but it’s not really other directed, right, versus the N word, and the C word are negative. And definitely other directed it’s particularly minority directed, right. So it’s like, the extreme corner of that two by two. And that is, that is not cool. DF: And everyday conversation to us, especially nowadays, we’ve created some things that are just completely unacceptable, which is exciting, right? Because it means that the swear words do change a little bit, we can get back to that — but the words that are considered most offensive now are all these words that denigrate and put down especially minority, so people that are persecuted or put upon, powerless, and I find that really encouraging. And then the example of ?   as an intensifier, like get in the fucking car, this is ?   awesome. That is, by far the most common one, use among the young. And like, really, by far. Now, there is this residue, though, of the use of curse, like a curse originates in the religious sense. I mean, part of it is religious, but not always.  This predates Judeo Christian religions. So it’s like, witchcraft upon your head or something like that, whatever, you know, old curse that somebody come up with. It’s like a desire for something bad to happen to somebody that you’re annoyed with. And now you have like, ?   you. Now, in fact, this was actually a fairly recent development that started in the 1900s. But you know, before that it was, you know, ?   , you say, it’s taking somebody — wanting something bad or, or they don’t even have to be there. And, you know, unlike the ?   with him or something like that, and those, those are feelings, negative feelings, that you are pairing with somebody. And it was interesting, because my dad, the reason my dad gave up, swearing is because, you know, in his religious texts, he was talking a lot against cursing. And what I tried to show him is that that’s not the way you have ever used a swear word.  Of all of his swears, he never used it to curse somebody. You know, I mean, people will curse themselves. They’ll say, ?   me. It’s not even towards somebody. And so that’s the reason why that’s so fascinating is because it’s not only slurs, but it’s not even in the more old fashioned sense, you know, ?   be upon you or something, people don’t even do that as much anymore.  But, of course, they do sometimes… And then so there is the research of Timothy Jay. He is just a great person to read on swear words. I really enjoy his work. He did tons of studies, looking at public use of swear words, and he had one big collection – he and a few colleagues  One in ‘86, and then again in ‘97. And then again, 10 years later in 2006. And I believe he’s has a newer one in 2016. So basically, every 10 years. And so he collected, like literally 10s of thousands of public incidents of swearing.  And, first of all, unbelievably, not one of them ever lead to any kind of physical violence or conflict. AW: Unbelievable. DF: Unbelievable. And, and most of them, like, by far, the vast majority I had to do with humor, it’s creating, oh, so even if somebody did say, ?   you, it’s like, you know, that is among friends or something like that. And it’s a moment of levity. And then even in those cases, where it was negative, like somebody saying ?   you. Well, he said, it’s better than physical conflict, because that people exchange a few words, and it was in lieu of an actual conflict that resulted in physical harm, right? I mean, I’m not saying the words can’t cause harm, but his point was that it didn’t result in a serious conflict. There’s a YouTube video going around. And sure you’ve seen it? Where there’s two guys giving each other the finger? Have you seen that one? AW: No. DF:I have to send it to you. It’s like a showdown, people across the street giving each other the finger in silence. It’s like the most intense thing I’ve ever seen. Nothing, nothing happens. It’s a nice example of how it can be a substitute for fighting. Oh, the other reason why I will swear, the other reason why people swear is to draw strength on that part. That’s not rational like that, you know, to call more on your gut-  in that part of your brain that can — fight or flight — risk response creates the extra energy you need to either fight or run away at top speed. And so what’s been found, of course, is that when people swear, in that moment, they will be able to perform better under duress. AW: It fires adrenaline in your system, do you think? DF: yeah. So it gets your blood pumping. Your heart rate is increased, your pupils dilate,  you start to sweat. It’s very raw in that way. And the reason why that’s so interesting is all those physical responses to the swear word like, ?   , that are generated in your body. They’re independent of meaning, or context. So all the things I just described could be in the context of a very aggressive fight with somebody where somebody said, something really cut you off in traffic, and you know, was very rude to you. And so if you swear, all those physical responses that I described, could be in response to something very negative, including leading to a fight or running away from somebody who’s about to shoot you or something. But there’s the same physical response you would have like during sex, something really positive. When someone says, ?   , and what’s interesting is they don’t actually mean sex, right? Like, it’s so fascinating – people almost never, ever use the word ?   , or ?   , for the physical act, or reference that it’s almost never used for that. Yet it activates your bodily responses the same.  Or as you see something that’s just absolutely amazing. You swear, like, ?   or something shocking, happens that’s negative, right? The physical response is the same. AW: So it’s all about context. DF: Okay, what that means is you can’t really take the swear word in ascribe it one interpretation, like, Oh, it’s used as a curse to against God or something like that. It’s not a good interpretation at all. It’s more direct, right out of the limbic system. AW: So question related back to the physical responses. You were talking about them on behalf of the communicator? What about the people around them? DF: Yeah. People underestimate how much language is about that anyhow. Because there’s a great book that I recommend on how language is used, as opposed to how people think it is used, by my colleague at the University of Alberta. And he it’s called, Using Figurative Language. And that he talks about: Why don’t people just say what they mean? And it turns out, people don’t say what they mean. And his examples of that are the huge over-representation of things like metaphor, similes, hyperbole, understatement, irony, sarcasm. This is well-known from the field of pragmatics more generally. Language is not used to communicate information between people. That’s not the main use the language. Language is mainly used to figure out our interpersonal relationships. Where you stand in society relative to other people. Because that’s the other thing. It’s amazing to me. We were talking about the right brain earlier. We don’t actually know what we’re trying to convey. That’s what’s it like, the rational brain is always trying to catch up. AW: So back to profanity, then though, in this context, is profanity like the punctuation? Great. Super. ?   awesome. Awful. It intensifies negatively or positively? DF: It’s very useful that way. Yeah.  But it also has lots of other useful social signaling uses. It’s this whole business about in-group and out-group. There’s some comfort in using a swear word with you, it means that we’re equals. And so for instance, if you put like a working-class person with their boss, the boss is able to swear. But the working-class guy, who actually technically swears more, because he’s working class, wouldn’t swear with the boss, because of the dynamics there.  If the employee swore with the boss and boss would respond, then you’re kind of treating yourself as more equal. Meaning you’ve set up some environment where you’re on the both part of an in-group. This is something that, you know, politicians play with, where they’ll use swear words to try to seem relatable, even though you can tell it’s scripted. Like when Hillary Clinton swears or something like that. AW: Yah.  It feels cringey. Are she and Bill at home swearing? No! They’re trying too hard or something like that. DF: And yet, somebody might appreciate the effort of trying to relate to them. And on top of that, it’s the words you choose, say a whole lot about you too. There are certain swear words that are used by younger people and older people, certain swear words that are used more by males and females. Like, if you say bloody, for instance, that makes you kind of Canadian, or more Brit, then American. You can signal a whole lot about yourself. And so again, it’s not about communicating information. It is about figuring out how we relate to each other.  Once you understand that, that’s actually one of the main points of language, then swearing just makes a whole lot of sense as a tool. AW: I want to leave the listeners with maybe some tips, or just general thoughts about what to think about in the context of, should I swear, or should I not. Are there pros and cons? Are there rules or tips that you can think of, that people should keep in mind? When they are conscious of their language and deciding whether they should swear or not? DF: Definitely. It’s risky. You’re saying a lot about yourself. We talked a little bit earlier about how some people are more likely to swear. And so they’re like extroverts, for instance. And so if you want to inform somebody that you’re an extrovert, you swear. But people also know that it’s more dominant people that swear other than more submissive. Also, I’m sorry to say that it’s people that are more negative, so and particularly men, men that are more neurotic, swear more. And so as always, there’s pros and cons. So even when you you’re using figurative language, like a metaphor, or a simile, or hyperbole or something, there’s a high cost of you being misunderstood, So there has to be some kind of bang for your buck. There’s a reason why people still do like that. You’re revealing a lot about yourself. And also, people that swear are less constrained, they’re disagreeable, you know, like a scale of agreeableness. And so it means that you’re also telling your boss that there’s somebody that’s a little bit non-conformist, that can be harder to get along with,  which is ironic, because the swearing creates a nice social ice-breaking puree. So it’s very risky, and you have to be very socially skilled to know when to swear and when not to swear. That’s the risk. Now, the other thing too, is that there’s a lot of myths associated with swearing. And some of them are true. But some of them are not. AW: So what are the ones that are not true? DF: Well, like, you know, that people swear because they don’t have a large vocabulary. Or that swearing is because they’re called curse words. It’s like you’re cursing God. People that have – if you’re interacting with somebody who has a strong religious background – so swearing is inversely correlated with religiosity. And so if your boss, or you’re the person, you’re interacting with his religious and you swear, ironically, that you’re signaling to them that you’re feeding into some, it’s not actually true that people use curse words. It’s like you’re invoking the devil or cursing people, damning, and so on, you’re talking about a filthy thing, you know, sex and things that you’re not supposed to talk about. It’s not actually true. And yet, people believe that. So they associate that with you, all these myths. I t doesn’t matter if scientists show that it’s actually not true. It’s actually the opposite. People that have the most swears also have the most vocabulary because they are more highly verbal. The scientific facts don’t matter. What matters is the prejudices that people have.  And people aren’t researchers in the industry on swear words. They associate this and so you’re really risking a lot by using it. I wanted to come back to the fact that slurs are now the most offensive, taboo topics, and in terms of categorizing things. We just talked about religious moralistic codes, and then sex and then body functions, fluids, and so on. And slurs as its own category. I think that slurs can also be grouped now into almost a quasi- religious aspect among young people. Because the tabooness of slurs is akin to —I mean, I’ve seen it referred too, somewhat dismissively by some people. There’s a great article by John McWhorter where he’s talking about how PC is now kind of like a religion.  They say a lot of young people aren’t religious anymore, but that’s their kind of religion. It’s really popular among, especially the younger generation. If  somebody is part of this minority, what really gives them the right to say use this word as opposed to somebody else. So it’s very hard to track. I mean, the way language is used in a social context is just, it’s like, why would you take the risk to do that? Or say that? but there must be an incredible bang for your buck. And that’s why swearing will never disappear. It’ll always be around. And the same words have been around for forever. AW: Really?  They’re always the same? DF: The top 10 words, just they don’t seem to change much at all. It was ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?   ?    And those were the ones that were the most rigorous. And so he was specifically excluding some of the slurs. But even bitch does survive in there. Yeah. And that’s a slur. And it really hasn’t been changed over time except when people have managed to give it a new life like gay, or, you know, the N word. Part of my research is — due to the fact that I work with rap music. And in my rap linguistics course I have students look at different swear words and taboo words. And words like ?   continue to be used just really, like overwhelming negatively. Yeah, in lyrics, whereas other terms, you can see people are turning them around and using them or positively. Another term in that list is sucks, right? Which is it has all the right sounds. It’s like an age thing. Like sucks,  I think it’s dropped out now or you can say that succeed at the highest level political meaning. So I think that’s one that’s changed, but ?   ?   alone were like one third to one half of all their data. AW: Right. So, George Carlin’s list of seven words you can’t say on TV – ?   and ?   are both on the list. And apparently, he was challenged about that. And he took it, he took ?   off the list for a while and then he put it back on. And he has this whole riff about why it belongs on the list. And it’s back, probably back to what you’re saying about the word ?   is all these things ?   is about incest. Right? DF: So yeah. But again, it’s now used affectionately all the time. You know, like I was saying earlier, this is like a ?   . You know, it’s just, it’s used as an intensifier, and, I mean, these terms, ?   , they’re used in so many exciting ways. Even like how you can say, I know ?   , meaning, I know stuff, but then they tell somebody, you know, he knows ?   . Like, it means he doesn’t know anything, right? And so the where you put the emphasis, the accent can change anything completely in. In fact, this is very similar, where we tend to put less accents on verb. So ?   is technically a verb. So, you know, but if you if you add a preposition after it, like, up or off or something, then you can put more emphasis on the verb. So this is something that Byron and has documented. So when you say, like, ?   off, you can, you can actually have emphasis on the verb in that case, whereas if you say, you know, john ?   Mary there’s no actual stress on the verb that’s accent, there’s a bit of stress, but there’s no accent. So john ?   Mary, we tend to put them on the nouns. Right? And so what you’ll find is people will turn into a noun to so they can now have that accent again, like, what the ?   by changing it now has that accent that normally wouldn’t have. And, and so what, the way people play around with these words, this is really something to behold. And it’s, it’s fascinating. There’s, they play with the both of the grammar. So something like, you know, if I can cause kind of inversion, or, you know, ?   , that was wonderful or ?   is it sunny or something like that, it will create different constructions. And then people will use those words in context that are often poetic, that just replace those expressions, like an expression that’s kind of poetic. Like, I kid you not. And so that you can use so I ?   you not. And it’s the basis of the vowels matching. And then, when you say, you know, shut the ?   up, you know, like, you see how all of those have the same vowels? Like Shut the ?   up? And then people will play with not just the grammar, but the poetry. And so they’re asking us on the one hand, which is what brings people those words together, and people find that pleasing. AW: I am definitely going to be listening to swears differently, I think– to be honest– I used to listen from a perspective of negative judgment, right? So you have no self-control, or you’re not educated. Now I’m going to be listening with a much more open mind because you’re talking about using profanity as punctuation. The other thing that I’m getting from this, that I had never thought of before is, I love your, I share your optimism now that we’ve come to a point in our culture where the most profane words are denigrating minorities. I love that too. Okay, I’m going to fire my five rapid fire questions at you.Question number one. What are your pet peeves? DF:I think dishonesty.  Somebody who’s not being truthful. AW: okay. DF: Because I just don’t know where I stand. AW: Second question is, and this is an interesting one for someone who’s a linguist. What type of learner are you? visual, auditory, kinesthetic, or something else? DF: Right, right. This whole categorization, it has been pooh-poohed a little bit in the research recently, but I don’t agree. I’ve looked over the research and I found that there’s really something to it, that just because people have said, all the learners don’t really fall into visual, auditory or etc. anymore. It just means they found maybe better categories. Unfortunately, some of the best research in this area seems to have gotten rid of the category I fit in most – is auditory.  I’m a very auditory person. I listen to audiobooks, and I’m an avid user of Siri, you can get her to read you the article or the news. And she’s, she’s amazing. You just say, you know, hey, “her name” because my phone will go off. Speak Screen, or, and then she’ll just read the whole thing to me. And I also use texting a lot, which has a text to speech software. AW: I would have guessed you’re an auditory learner. I think most people who are drawn to language probably are next question. Introvert or extrovert? You already answered? DF: Yeah. Extrovert. Yeah. AW: Number four, communication preference for personal conversations. DF: face to face. It takes me too long to craft a text. And so even if it is with electronics, it has to be FaceTime. I really need to see people. And in fact, that’s the way you connect.  I can’t – I hate preparing tons of written feedback on something. I prefer to just meet face-to-face with a student or something. There’s so many ways of being misinterpreted. When you write, whether to choose to write WTF or not for something you could you know, you don’t really know the person until you’re kind of in front of them. And then they can misunderstand your intention.  There are so many ways in which things can go wrong in writing.  It’s just  missing all that information like what I was talking about ,you know, the difference between you know ?   versus you know, ?   . AW: right, DF: It’s just, it’s missing some of it.  And I think it’s really important that we don’t lose that in this fascinating research on language-learning, showing that people learn a second language. This happens with new immigrants to Canada or the States where they can’t get it just from TV or radio or whatever. They have to be interacting with a physical English person. It seems like everything is there in the electronic medium, but it’s not good enough, right? Physical body presence of the person in front of you to learn the language. AW: Last question. Is there a podcast or blog or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending the most to your friends and family? DF: Very broadly, I’m a huge fan of YouTube, which includes podcasts. I just I love the long form format. People will have these two 24 hour interviews and I adore them. They’re just great. Anything. For instance, that’s where I came across Iain McGilchrist precisely because I didn’t have an audio version of his book, The Master and His Emissary, but you get a sense of the author through interviews. And then from there, you you might pick up the book and so on. But a blog I should mention, because of our focus on swear words, is called strong language. That’s a really great blog on swear words. Content warning there, of course, but I really recommend that one. AW: Okay. Can I ask you one other question? I promise you this is the last question I’m going to ask you. Did you have rules in your house when your kids were younger about swearing, and if you were going to do it all over again today, and you had you know, toddlers that were learning to speak? Were swear words against the rules in your house, I’m just curious? DF: They arose with us is very early. My kids mispronounced words and things like truck would come out, or frog would come out, or something like that. Yeah. And trick would come on this ship, I don’t know. They’re like, and we would laugh or, you know, get them to repeat it over and over again. And so what they did was even from a young age, they develop as an association that when I say this word, it seems to have this power to make everybody go (…) or laugh or whatever. And so they, they, I think they picked up those words. And then, but they didn’t use them very much. I mean, it really depends on their personality, right. So my two oldest ones are somewhat introverted, and, but it’ll show up under, like, when they’re getting their flu shot or something, you know, my daughter will say ?   , you know, just like of pain. And, I have a seven year old. You know, when he said, ?   , couple of times, we were trying to create a sense of — it’s kind of a hard balance, because  we don’t want him to use that word, because other people will judge him. And in our case, because my youngest daughter is autistic, I think we’re a little bit more sensitive, because we don’t want to her to be in a situation to use a swear word. That’s not socially appropriate. And she can’t quite figure that out. So we try to avoid swearing around her in particular, because we just don’t want her to have to try to figure out when I can use it or not use it. Yeah, it’s a tricky question. Because the more you repress it and stomp on it, the worst words, the more power you give the words. AW: Right DF: That’s literally how swear words are created. Swear words are learned as these really magical, powerful words. And as a kid, and then somebody in life later on tells you that they actually don’t have all that power. That it’s just a word. As a whole, society considers them to be quite powerful words, even though there’s nothing intrinsic to them. They’re just sounds coming out of your mouth, right? AW: That’s it. So thank you so, so much for your time and sharing your expertise.   I’d love to hear from you. Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/talk_about_talk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkingabouttalk/ FB: https://www.facebook.com/TalkingAboutTalk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com The TalkAboutTalk weekly email blog is your opportunity to receive one concise email from me each week, highlighting knowledge & strategies that will help us become more effective communicators. SIGN UP NOW!: https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup TALK soon! ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. 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