Talk About Talk - Executive & Leadership Communication Skills

Do you communicate with IMPACT? Sr. Partner at Deloitte Jennifer Lee defines impact as the ability to get someone to take action. Learn 3 specific communication tactics to elevate your impact, plus insights about how respect, being curious, and establishing the value of each person in the room can increase your impact.   RESOURCES Jennifer T. Lee LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifertlee/ Relevant episodes: Ep.79 STORYTELLING – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/79-how-to-use-storytelling-to-elevate-your-communication/ Ep.93 THE POWER of 3 -– https://www.talkabouttalk.com/93-the-power-of-three/ Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk:  Free 20min consult – Book Andrea  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter – newsletter-signup LinkedIn – Andrea https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – TalkAboutTalk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ TRANSCRIPT What exactly does it mean to communicate with impact? “Impact is, in my mind, the ability to get someone else to action, and make a move. Impact is about not necessarily having the answer in the beginning, but discovering that impact with someone else who you’re having the conversation with to end up with an answer that goes, “Oh, I get it”.  That was Jennifer Lee, senior partner at Deloitte Canada. I’m so excited to introduce you to Jennifer, so you can learn how to communicate with impact. Jennifer is a bold, inspiring leader who, you guessed it, creates impact for her Deloitte clients. In fact, creating impact is Jennifer’s superpower.  That’s why I asked her to have this conversation. Get ready to be inspired. Greetings and welcome to Talk About Talk episode number 112, where we’re focusing on how to communicate with impact. Let me ask you something: do YOU communicate with impact? Do you have any strategies you use to increase the impact of your communication and your work? These are Qs worth asking.  In this episode, you’re going to learn the mindsets that Jennifer employs so she and her teams can maximize impact for their clients.  She also recommends 3 specific communication tactics that we can use to elevate our impact. Let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (please call me Andrea!). I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, and I’m your executive communication coach. Are you an ambitious executive?  Do you have a growth mindset?  Looking to advance your career? Well, you’re in the right place. At Talk About Talk, we focus on communication skills topics like confidence, demonstrating leadership, and personal branding. If you check out the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find tons of resources to help you, including an online course on Personal Branding, as well as 1-on-1 and group coaching, corporate workshops, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, and the weekly communication coaching newsletter. Please go sign up for that newsletter if you haven’t already.   One other thing for you: Coming up quickly, in NOVEMBER 2022, we’re running a Job-seekers bootcamp.  If you’re ready for a change, this one-month boot camp will give you a huge advantage in the job market. Together with my friend executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin: We’ll teach you critical networking strategies,  We’ll guide you on how to confidently how to articulate your unique personal brand, and,  we’ll work with you to optimize your LinkedIn profile.  If that sounds like something that might need, or if you know someone who could use this guidance in terms of their job search, just check out talkabouttalk.com and you’ll find all the information there! OK – on to communicating with impact. Let’s get into this! I’m going to introduce Jennifer Lee, we’ll get right into the interview.  Then, at the end, as I always do, I’ll summarize the key learnings for you. So as always, you don’t need to take notes, because I do that for you. People tell me they love this! So you can just keep doing whatever you’re doing. What ARE you doing while you’re listening?  I’m always curious. Whether you’re doing housework, or working in your kitchen, whether you’re going for a walk, or whether you’re in the car. You don’t need to stop to take notes ’cause I do that for you. At the end of this episode, I provide my summary of some of the most important points from our conversation.  Alright, let me introduce Jennifer Lee. Jennifer is a bold Inspiring Leader Who truly Creates Global Impact in everything she does, whether she’s serving Deloitte clients, formally & informally mentoring her teams, creating new thought leadership, serving as a board member, teaching university students, or raising her family. Global impact is the theme.  In her roles as Global Lead Client Service Partner and Cdn Managing Partner of Growth Businesses, Jen’s focus is in the areas of growth strategy & analytics, M&A, and value-creation. Her clients include global tier-one consumer, retail and private equity firms. Jen also pioneered Deloitte’s emerging businesses in Cannabis, Future of Trust, Center for Climate Action & ESG, Digital Identity, AND led the firm’s highly-acclaimed GLOBAL COVID response leadership team. That’s impact. As a champion of diversity and inclusion, Jen orchestrated the Deloitte NextGen program which elevates Deloitte women, establishing a global pipeline of female executives. And beyond that, Jen has a passion for driving local and global impact as a university lecturer, an active board member, and through volunteerism.  I encourage you to check out Jen’s LinkedIn profile to see everything she does.  In her spare time, Jen is an avid-reader. Her family is global and adventurous, having traveled all over the world together. She says they’ve lived in five countries and plan on living in five more!   INTERVIEW  Andrea: Thank you, Jennifer, so much for joining us here today to talk about communicating with impact. Jennifer: Thank you for having me today, Andrea. Andrea: So let’s start with this question. What exactly do you mean by impact, particularly in this professional context? Jennifer: Great question. Impact is, in my mind, the ability to get someone else to action and make a move. That’s in a business context. When you think about impact personally in either mentorship situations or developing others, you think about impact as incremental advice that they can action to make themselves better. And then I think about impact in our communities and communicating impact in the communities by demonstrating value to people. And so I think about impact in those three contexts, because we’re made up of individual business for individual business people. We are mentors and developers, and we many of us volunteer. So I think about communications in different contexts. Andrea: Right? Oh my goodness. There’s so much to unpack there. Jen. We’ve got encouraging someone else to take action. We’ve got mentorship, we’ve got you said incremental. I’m curious about that, demonstrating value and to different people. Let’s start with your comment about incremental. When I think impact actually I think big. Jennifer: Yes. And you’re right. So it comes down to the objective of the conversation. So when if I think of my client work, when before I begin an assignment or before I think about impact, I think about what question am I really trying to answer? So I’ll give you an example. I was with a client this morning who is in the Middle East, and initially he said to us, Well, I just want to redesign the business. And I said, okay, are you looking for incremental? Growth and impact? Or are you looking to make and therefore making tweaks or are you looking to make a bold move that will transform the business and the impact will be ten X? Before you can make impact, you need to define the question you’re trying to answer. And so many students that I teach, I keep saying to them, Did you answer the question? And the class was getting frustrated with me actually, because I was asking this all the time. And then when the deliverable came out, some of them had and some of them had not answered the question. And so defining the question you’re trying to answer is 99% of your impact on how you’re going to solve that problem and communicate it. Nothing is worse than a person that not only has not defined it, but actually answered the question around the question that makes any sense. Andrea: That makes so much sense. Jennifer: And so if I think of the time we spend, my teams spend a lot of time thinking about what are we solving for, and when I give you that answer, what are you going to do with it? Right. So that’s why I break it into transformational impact and incremental impact. And so my hope is that every time a client speaks to me. I think about is this a conversation around transformative impact or incremental? And then I tailor my communication with them accordingly because some people aren’t ready for Big Bang impact, right? You have to get them there. It can take 20 conversations and some people can. You just have one. But you have to be able to diagnose that. And so that’s where when I spend time with people and spending a lot of time thinking about how are they going to receive the information that I’m talking to them, are they ready? Andrea: Okay. So transformative versus incremental impact. I have to share with you quickly this anecdote that happened to me last week. I was coaching an executive who said that he found himself in a job interview where he realized a couple of minutes into the interview that they were looking for someone who could continue to steer the ship. It was like incremental impact, right? And he’s like, I am a trailblazer. He’s really about transformational impact. And something came up to mind and I asked him, how does this resonate? If you’re looking at a SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, you’re all about the opportunities and going hard. Whereas they were looking for someone who was, you know, minimizing the threats and really focusing kind of on the strengths and weaknesses and the opportunities were less. Does that resonate a little bit with. Jennifer: 100%, 100%. So to take that example to even my client example I gave so this is our third conversation with the client. When he first talked to us, he talked to us about incremental impact. So then he went away and thought about our conversation and he called me back and he actually said, No, no, no, it’s transformational impact. And I said, Really? Okay, if it’s transformative information, transformational impact, tell me what kind of bold moves you would make if I gave you three different things that business can do to transform? He says, I would go raise capital. I would go and I would redesign the organization. And he said, Then I would actually go bring another partner in to co-invest with us. So I said, okay, so therefore, what are we trying to solve for? In this case, it was a very consumer business. And we said the question for the strategy work is what are the big, bold opportunities in the marketplace that this client could position itself for? And so I don’t think people spend enough time thinking about that because you have to come from a place of curiosity first versus coming with the answer. And I think my view, at least being in professional services, we’re used to rampaging into a room and giving the answer, and I’m really trying myself to take it more as walking to your room and being curious. Oh, those are  different ways to run a meeting.  Andrea: Yeah. So for me as a coach, I used to think that the best thing to do, whether I was coaching in a workshop or one on one coaching, that I would enter into these meetings and. Generously share as much as I can to help the audience or the person. Right. And then I realized actually asking them questions. So this is your point about curiosity and establishing the goal or the objective. So asking the person, you know what the topic is, what questions do you have? Like give them to me and let’s talk about this. I love that point. So it helps, obviously, whether you’re talking to your students at Rotman or your clients or your direct reports to set objectives to understand what the question is. Right. And you’re also therefore then preparing them for being as bold as they need to be in actually creating whatever the change is. Jennifer: Right. And I would say the second bucket that I gave you was mentorship and development for impact, the way in which you do that. My opinion is if I can help craft the question and spend time with the team on the question, they need to go away and create the answer. Right. Therefore, that leaves them with leadership opportunities. It gives them time in front of senior executives. They create, they are able to stretch themselves and give them the experience they need and they can stumble and learn. Because whenever we get stuck or whenever there’s a problem, we go back to the question we’re trying to answer. And so that is the way in which I’ve redesigned even how I lead, because then the team is well equipped to go away and problem solve. If you walk into the room and tell them the answer and be like, go build the deck or go build the analysis, then what happens is if they find something that goes against what I said, that’s really tough for them to think through. How am I going to challenge Gen versus go away and think about it and come back to me with three different ways we can answer this question? Andrea: Okay. So when I was preparing for this interview, specifically this topic of communicating with impact, I was thinking, is there a checklist of things that will improve my chances of creating impact? And so you’ve just listed a big one. Well, a couple of big ones, right? There’s being curious yourself and there’s also kind of scoping what the magnitude of the transformation or the impact can be. And then I was thinking there’s probably other things, too, right? Jennifer: There is. And so if I think about how you introduce yourself and your teams, this is where a lot of it goes sideways, my opinion. So when I go to introduce my team, sometimes it’s actually more powerful. If I introduce them quickly in the room, then they go introduce themselves. So for example, if you and I were in a meeting, I would say, Client X, I’d like to introduce you to Andrea. The two things I think you need to know about Andrea and why she’s here today is she has a PhD from Harvard in personal branding, and the second is she coached some of the very senior executives in the marketplace. That perspective, I thought, was really important to have in this meeting, and that’s why I brought her today here today. Really that is much more impactful than you reading your resume, listing all your credentials, and 10 minutes into the meeting, you’re still trying to introduce yourself. Yeah, right. If we put the person that we’re talking to at the center of the conversation, then everything and everyone who’s in that room should lead back to the problem we’re trying to solve for. Like, why is Andrea here? That’s what the person’s really thinking. Well, let’s call a spade a spade. Yeah. Why is Jennifer here? Well, Jennifer is the lead partner. They don’t need to know that I lived overseas, and I have my MBA and all this kind of stuff like that. I guess that matters kind of sorta. But there’s very few clients that I’ve met who’ve asked me to read my entire resume. Not to say it’s not important because you do have to earn your stripes to get where you are. There comes a point in your career and when you introduce yourself and when you start to show up in leadership roles, that you have to put that aside and begin to be, let’s call it the way I thought about Is Jen in the room? Right? Jen is made up of many different things, and so I just need to name those three things that make me Jen and why I’m in front of you now. So that’s another way. I’ve been trying to train the teams to introduce themselves more meaningfully. Andrea: As you know, this is music to my ears. I strongly believe that how you introduce yourself is the number one most impactful way that you can establish your personal brand. Full stop. Jennifer: Yeah. And, you know, culture matters to me. I led the global pandemic response for the global firm Deloitte, and I had a team from all over the world, very heavily from Asia. As you know, the pandemic really began in Asia. And sometimes introducing others allows for you to tout their accomplishments and really build them up without them having to do it themselves. Because sometimes in the Asian culture, speaking about yourself too much is seen as potentially a negative. I think it was countercultural. Yeah. And so you are allowed to go do that and you have wide swath of ability to make everyone feel included and then be inclusive in the conversation if you introduce them. Right? So there’s different methods, but that’s one that I started to use. Andrea: I love that. I have to say, you’ve added to my thinking here about introductions, and I do get the question a lot. So how do I mention something that I’m really proud of? But I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging. For example, dropping the Harvard bomb. You say I went to Harvard and then you divert it to and my research focused on whatever. So but this is a fantastic way to actually get somebody else to introduce you. And when you establish that credibility with your client or whoever you’re communicating with, that person is going to be more able to deliver impact because they have credibility. That’s beautiful. Jennifer: So that and then in the meeting, they feel included. They have permission to be at the table. And as you know, for women and minorities, that’s an important invitation. To include them at the table in a world where we often get left out. Yeah. And so you as a leader and your communication style allows them permission to be there and have a say and be equally at the table.  Andrea: Yeah.  So in addition to you introducing your team to clients so that they can have credibility and create impact, how else do you encourage others to create impact? Jennifer: So I think we don’t do this enough. And I think that this is a best practice. I try and do it when I can. Before the meeting we meet or and we say, okay, everyone at the table has a speaking opportunity. So there’s no such thing as showing up in a meeting and not saying anything. You’re here for a reason. We seem to work out what that reason is, right? So our mentor of mine used to say to me, okay, John, once I do the introduction, I’m going to toss you the ball. You catch it, you talk about what you the topic, and you’re going to take the ball and throw it to Andrea. She’s in cash and she’s going to talk about this and then the ball comes back to me. And what we’re going to do is we’re going to I’m going to moderate to look for questions and then I’m going to pass it out to the team. So that was one thing after the introductions. So we worked out how we do the introductions. The second is how we catch the ball together to be inclusive of the team members so everyone gets a say. And then the final piece is that we actually turn to the to people on the team and say, we have 5 minutes left in the meeting. I just want to pause for a second because I know we’ve talked about a lot and let’s go around the room and just make sure that we’ve captured everything. So why don’t we start on my left side and let’s just go around the room really quickly? Anything we’re missing, anything we’re missing. And that allows you again, to build inclusivity, because that’s a real that’s a really important theme for me. And second, make sure we don’t miss anything. Everyone gets a chance to talk and allow us for cultural differences in the room. Andrea: I’ve been doing some workshops for a company in downtown Toronto recently and the CEO is fantastic. I respect him very much and I’ve noticed that he does this. I’m now expecting him to do this at the end of every workshop. He does that whether it’s around the screen or around the table or around the room. He says, I want everyone to identify what their biggest learning was from this workshop. And I think that taking your cue, you could do that in any meeting. It doesn’t have to be a training workshop, right? And you could say, what is the most impactful thing we’ve learned here today? Or what is the big learning for you that we need to let we can leverage here however you want it, depending on the context, I think that’s absolutely brilliant. Jennifer: The final thing I would do, and I’m not as good at this because of the way my schedule is, but after the meeting we try and convene outside and go, What went well? What didn’t go well really quickly? This was something my mentor did with me, and we would laugh about a bunch of stuff and then we would go, okay, next time we’re got to do this, and then we all just disperse to our next meeting. But there’s a quick debrief that actually is a bonding moment for teams. Yeah. And I think we don’t do enough of that and I certainly don’t because I’m running between meetings, but I’m trying to do more of that. I think meetings are tough and so we have to be able to celebrate sometimes difficult situations we got ourselves in or out of. Andrea: I have to say, Jen, you sound like such a fantastic manager. Jennifer: Well, I don’t know if my team would say that. Andrea: Well, I know, I know you work really hard and you expect them to work really hard. But I mean, just the fact that you’re having these meetings before you go into a meeting and then a debrief afterwards. Jennifer: And like, sometimes it’s just as ad hoc, but it’s that discipline of thinking through, like, how do I actually teach them and everyone to behave in the way that is inclusive of all of us? Andrea: Yeah, it is very inclusive. It’s also very mindful, right? So everyone, let’s focus and be mindful of what our objective is, what our roles are, right? And then you go in there and then you debrief. And it’s very consistent with a growth mindset. You’re saying what went right? What can we do better next time? And like you said, you have these kind of little jokes that you talk about that happened in the meeting. I love it. It’s bonding. It’s fantastic. So what other tactics do you use to try to create impact? We’ve been talking a lot kind of at a higher level of philosophical level setting objectives. Are there any tactical things that you think really work to create impact? Jennifer: So the third bucket I gave you is around community impact and some of us volunteer. So I’ll just talk outside of work. One of the things that I’ve been practicing is how when somebody leaves a conversation with me, they’re better, they’re a better person, and that requires you to talk less. So I was just mentoring a woman before this meeting and we were talking. She was sharing with me her career goals. And so in my mind, I was being the A-type personality. I want to jump in and I want to write her career goals for her and like just send her on her way. And I stopped doing that because that was my plan, not hers. And so then I promised myself I wouldn’t talk. For the first 10 minutes of our meeting. I just listened. So the tactic that I use because I get so anxious is I always carry a notebook. And when I feel like I’m going to say something and it hasn’t been 10 minutes in, I write it down and I write it and I scribble it down because I feel like it needs to come out. And if it doesn’t come out of my mouth, then maybe I can get it on paper because one of the reasons people blurt stuff out or interrupt or take over a conversation is I need to get it out. Yeah. And you have to create a mechanism for yourself to get it out. So I started scribbling on paper. Andrea: I love that you’re physically getting it out. Jennifer: You’re physically getting it out, and you’ll get to it. You won’t forget it. It’s still important. It’s just not now and then. So that was one tactic that has been game changing for me because I was always one of those people. I just had to get it out, right? Yeah. The second is leading with empathy and kindness. And the reason I say that is for someone to share with you information. There’s a certain degree of vulnerability that needs to happen and connection. And for me, true conversations with impact need to have a connection. So I’ll give you an example. Most recently, I was asked to join the board of a hospital and we were talking about it. They were pitching me on, join the board. And I just kept on saying, I don’t know if I should join a board. Like it’s obviously a prestigious role, but where can I actually have impact? And so I kept on asking the CEO and the chair, do I will I really have impact here? What about their what about their. So I started asking them questions. Because it was consistent with my values, which was if I join a board, I need to have impact and help me understand that. And when I kept on asking that question, I started to realize that I was crafting my role on the board. Right? And then I said to them, Oh, I get it now. You want to improve the health outcomes of immigrants and refugees. That’s consistent with my values, my brand, and where I want to spend my time. I’m in. Andrea: Brilliant. Jennifer: So Impact is about not necessarily having the answer in the beginning, but discovering that impact with someone else who you’re having the conversation with to end up with an answer that goes, Oh, I get it. You you’re asking me to join the board because I can have impact here, Because I think sometimes in conversations we don’t really know where the conversation is going. So in especially when you’re doing community work, you’re trying to figure out like, where should I spend my time working to have impact? What ties with my brand? If I only have so much time, should I join the board of a hospital or not? And so sometimes a conversation is a path of discovery. But the way you ask very tactically, how do I do that? I’m listening for words that  are in my personal dictionary. Andrea: Oh, your personal dictionary, Jen, I love that. So you said it’s very different from the professional context or the work context. But in both this volunteer context and when you’re working with clients, you’re really focusing on asking questions in order to make the ideal impact, aren’t you? Jennifer: I am, and I was for many years. I was not like this. This is a personal journey I have been on in my attempt to. Take my. Be a leader at a different level. And I really credit my executive coach who spent the time with me on this. But we went through a long journey, you know, in my attempt to be vulnerable here. From my identity being where I work, how much I make and my credentials from school, my education to being one of. Who I am, what I believe, and where I’m going to spend my time against those values. And so if someone was to meet me on the street, I would not be introducing myself as Jennifer Lee. I’m a senior partner at Deloitte. I would be introducing myself as Jen, I’m a mother, a daughter. I work at Deloitte. This is what I do. But I also sit on boards and volunteer and I have hobbies and I have friends. Like it suddenly becomes a different story. And this journey to. Who? What? What you think you are because of your credentials and who you be. Those are very different ways of creating impact in a conversation, because it’s suddenly not about you. It’s about the conversation and discovering. And that takes a huge amount of curiosity, in my opinion. Andrea: It does. Do you think it’s common that people would be focused on establishing the credibility in the more sort of tangible ways that you were listing, like your educational credentials and so on earlier in their career. And then shifting to sort of more self actualized things that we’re talking about here? Jennifer: I think so. I think early in your career you’re building your credibility. Yeah, but there will come a time where you don’t need to build it anymore and then you transition to who you’re going to be. And the reason I say that is I don’t think I knew when that transition happened it could happen. Two years into your job or ten or 15 years into your job, it really depends on what type of person you are. And my coach was telling me the other day that, like the majority of people actually don’t go through that transition. Andrea: I think that’s true. Yeah. Jennifer: So, you know, I see it all the time when my partners and my staff introduce themselves to a client, like and then I went here to go to school and then I did this, and then you’re kind of like me. Just get on with the meeting. Yeah. And they don’t do it in a malicious way. It goes back to just stage of thought process and what defines them. And therefore it’s how you it shows up and how they communicate. Andrea: It does. And focusing on your personal brand is, is key there, right? Because instead of reading your bio, you’re talking about your superpowers and you’re talking about your values, right? Jennifer: Yeah. And there’s a whole this is probably for another day, but there’s best practices in how you communicate, too. So, for example, people only remember things in threes. Yeah. So if you’re going to list like the five different schools you went to, chances are they won’t even remember, Right? Right. So that’s, that’s that. And even when you’re communicating business problems and business solutions, keeping it to three is really important. So no one hires. No. You’ll lose the room if you come back with here’s the 25 recommendations that we think it’s all about bucketing and rolling it up and getting into themes. And so you do this very naturally in your work, but people don’t remember threes. The second day is people remember stories and my background is extremely complicated. And so I struggled for a long time trying to explain the moves that I made, the countries I had lived in and the not for profit, but the, the, the private sector work I used to I’ve done. And it just kind of didn’t make sense. And slowly I spend time thinking about what’s the story that I want, the general theme that the thread that I pull throughout my career. And so I had to get really granular in that. And so I would recommend that your listeners start to think about that thread. It’s important because it also guides your decisions. Jennifer: And then the final thing is. When you present material, the cadence of how it gets managed is really important. I’ve now gotten into this cadence. It all depends on the personality of the person you’re talking to. But I’ll give you an example. I have a client that is what I in Deloitte’s words, we call them pioneer integrator. So they’re hard, hard drivers. Right. And then there’s a bit of how do I make sure that people understand this? That’s the personality of this particular client. High IQ, very low IQ. So when I sing and thinking about them, I was like, okay, how is this going to work? So we’re like completely different personalities. And this goes back to communicating with impact. So I said, okay, we are going to do given his personality series and pre-reads day before, so he has time to read it. When we get into the meeting, I’m going to ask him a question. Let’s just call him Sam for now. Sam, great to see you looking well. Like a little bit of small talk. We have 30 minutes today, so it looks like we have 27 minutes left. I have three things on the agenda. Is there anything that you’d like to add to the agenda? So he’ll say, Yeah, actually I do. I want to talk to you about something that’s a big that’s a problem here. I said, Okay, great. Why don’t we talk about your piece first? We get through that and then I can take you through the other pieces because we sent you the pre read. He’s like, I write it all. Exactly right. And then you say, okay, I have 2 minutes left in the meeting. Let’s just talk about what’s the right next steps for remediation, given what we talked about and etc.. So you got to get good at managing time. Yes. Because as people get more senior, they I’m like, they’re not going to a meeting. Can’t run over this. It’s too hard. So we got very good at sort of orchestrating meetings. Orchestration of meetings is really important, understanding who the audience is. In some cases I have clients who are what I call guardian integrators. You can’t keep them on track for anything to save their life, right? Yeah. So pre reads. I’ll never read it. Get into a meeting. They want the meeting to be 45 minutes when you only booked 30. So you have to find ways to manage them. That’s also communicating for impact. It is knowing who your audience is. That would be the third thing I’d recommend your listeners really pay attention to. Andrea: So we’ve got the power of three. We’ve got telling a story, and I would say cadence, you use the word cadence, but kind of customizing the flow of the formal communication that you have. Jennifer: Yeah, I would say I’d even change it to respecting the audience because it takes a huge degree of respect to tailor something for someone. Andrea: Yeah, I agree.  And this all goes back to listening and asking questions, right. And being open. Jennifer: Yeah. Andrea: Is there anything else you want to add about communicating with impact before we move to the five rapid fire questions? Jennifer: Well, maybe one thing I’d say my hope is that for your listeners, that being authentic, which is a highly overused word, but being yourself and finding your own methods that work is really important. I can give you my examples, but really at the end of the day, you got to find what works for you so that you feel true to yourself. I watch it too much where people try to behave like others. It just doesn’t fit. Andrea: I agree 100%. Fantastic. Okay, you ready for the five rapid fire questions? Jennifer: Let’s do it. Andrea: Question number one: What are your pet peeves? Jennifer: Being interrupted by men? Andrea: I was going to say I’m going to be careful not to interrupt. Jennifer: Mansplaining… being mansplained to… it drives me bananas. Andrea: Yeah. Okay. Question number two: What type of learner are you? Jennifer: I learn in patterns, which drives my teams crazy so I can’t look at a spreadsheet and see the numbers because I’m a bit dyslexic. I have to they graph it for me and I know exactly what the answer is. I see it. So I see patterns. Andrea: Is that visual? Jennifer: Visual. But I can also I can hear it too. Okay, so clients can tell me problems and then I’ll know there’s a problem in the marketplace because I’m hearing it enough. Andrea: Got it. So it’s patterns. Okay. Question number three: Introvert or extrovert? Jennifer: Introvert. I would spend all my days reading. My goal was to be a librarian when I was a child. Andrea: Okay, Question number four communication or media preference for personal conversations. Jennifer: So right now it’s WhatsApp because I have two best friends. We share WhatsApp and we’re always sharing stuff about what’s happening with us and it really keeps us close. Andrea: Oh, okay. Last question. Is there a podcast or a blog or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending a lot lately? Jennifer: I’m a New York Times addict. Andrea: Me too. Jennifer: Are you? And I’ll tell you why. Because they do everything that we talked about today. Oh, they’re curious. They tell stories. They’re authentic and they keep it time boxed and they really understand their audience. And there’s such a the people who interview in the news casters are so, so intelligent. You feel like you’re there one on one with them listening to the stories. Andrea: I agree. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Jen, for sharing all of your insights on communicating with impact. And I have to say this. You definitely create an impact here in this episode. Thank you. Jennifer: Thank you.   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #112 Communicating with IMPACT – with Jennifer Lee, sr. partner at Deloitte appeared first on Talk About Talk.

We all have a superpower. What’s yours? Learn the two main benefits of identifying your superpower, and 5 questions to help you identify your superpower. This is a critical element of your personal brand. RESOURCES   Get the “How to Identify your Superpower” WORKSHEET: https://talkabouttalk.com/superpower Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Free 20min consult – Book Andrea  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter – newsletter-signup LinkedIn – Andrea https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn – TalkAboutTalk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #111 What’s Your SUPERPOWER? appeared first on Talk About Talk.

QUICK! What are your pet peeves? What type of learner are you? Are you an introvert or an extrovert? What communication media do you prefer? Do you have any podcast recommendations? How would YOU answer the 5 rapid fire questions that Andrea asks her guests at the end of every podcast interview? Hear Andrea’s answers to these questions, why she asks them, plus key insights, and more.   Click HERE to Ask Andrea a Q.  Or go to talkabouttalk.com & click “Record your question for Andrea” Your Q and Andrea’s answer might be featured in a future podcast episode!!!   RESOURCES Quiet by Susan Cain https://amzn.to/3wuj0wD PIVOT podcast  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Q&A episodes 102 – Communication Skills Q&A – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/102-qanda-fishbowl/ 106 – Personal Branding Q&A – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/106-q-and-a-personal-branding/ Introvert/Extrovert episode  https://www.talkabouttalk.com/82-am-i-an-introvert-or-an-extrovert/ Ask Andrea a Question! This is your opportunity to hear your question and Andrea’s answer on a Talk About Talk podcast episode. Ask the Q via: the website –  https://talkabouttalk.com email – andrea@talkabouttalk.com Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Communication Coaching newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Free 20min consult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/   THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #110 Five Rapid Fire Questions appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Here’s your checklist of 5 impactful but often overlooked ways that you can communicate and reinforce your personal brand. Of course there’s how we introduce ourselves, our social media profiles, our resume. But when was the last time you updated your voicemail greeting? Check out TalkAboutTalk.com   RESOURCES   Personal Brand Online course: https://talkabouttalk.com/personalbrand   Gravatars https://en.gravatar.com/ Alternatives: https://alternativeto.net/software/gravatar/ How to create a gravatar: https://ithemes.com/blog/what-is-gravatar-3-things-you-need-for-a-great-gravatar/ Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Free 20min Consult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn Andrea – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/  THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #109 Five Impactful Ways to Reinforce Your PERSONAL BRAND appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Communicating enthusiasm can improve outcomes in many contexts, including negotiations, sales, job-searching, and teaching and learning. Learn why enthusiasm is so impactful and how to communicate it through your body language, your tone and your words. SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST RESOURCES   Enthusiasm Talk About Talk episode on “Emotional Expressions” with Dr. Tatiana Astray – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/50-emotions-podcast/ Dr. Tatiana Astray’s paper on emotions on negotiations – https://bit.ly/3Q7ZopL Talk About Talk episode on “How to Introduce Yourself” – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/86-introductions-introduce-yourself/ Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Communication Coaching Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Free 20min Consult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn Andrea – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ LinkedIn Talk About Talk – https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkabouttalk/ THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #108 ENTHUSIASM Please! Communicating with Enthusiasm appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin shares her advice for job seekers, including what to do first, what employers are looking for in job candidates, common mistakes, and (yes!) the significance of your personal brand when it comes to job searching.   RESOURCES   Sharon Mah-Gin LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonmahgin/ Executive Search Alliance – http://www.execsearchalliance.com/ Recommendation: Jay Shetty podcast Relevant Talk About Talk Episodes for Job Seekers Online Networking with Sharon Mah-Gin Networking with Sharon Mah-Gin Optimizing your LinkedIn Profile with Andrew Jenkins Social media with Andrew Jenkins Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website – TalkAboutTalk.com Free Newsletter –  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Linkedin bi-weekly communication skills newsletter: “Talking About Talk” – https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/welcome-lets-talk-talkabouttalk/ TRANSCRIPT   Okay, question number three, introvert or extrovert? LOL!!!!!!!!!! a big extrovert with a big E and I get my energy and joy out of people and meeting new people and old friends, etc. Who was that? I’m excited to introduce you to a wonderful friend and colleague of mine – executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin. Not only is Sharon high energy and a lot of fun to hang out with, but she’s also a highly respected and successful executive recruiter. So I figured she is the perfect person to share with us her expertise on dos and donts for job seekers. Welcome to Talk About Talk episode #107, where we’re focusing on Communication Skills for Job-Seekers, with executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin. Let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (please call me Andrea!). I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, and I’m your executive communication coach. If youre an ambitious executive with a growth mindset who’s looking to advance your career? Well, you’re in the right place. At Talk About Talk, we focus on communication skills topics like confidence, networking, and demonstrating leadership. If you check out the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find many many resources to help you, including the new online course on Personal Branding, as well as 1-on-1 coaching, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, and the free weekly email newsletter. Please go sign up for that newsletter if you haven’t already.  You can think of it as free communication-skills coaching. You can find all this at talkabouttalk.com.  In this episode, you’ll hear my conversation with executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin, where we discuss and various do’s and donts to help you on your job searching journey. Keep listening for valuable insights from Sharon on things like how to kick off your job search, the most common mistakes people make, how and when to leverage recruiters in your job search, and importantly, what exactly companies are looking for in candidates. As always, you don’t need to take notes, because I do that for you. So just keep doing whatever you’re doing. Whether you’re doing housework, going for a walk, or whether you’re in the car. You don’t need to stop to take notes ’cause I do that for you. At the end of this episode, I provide a summary of some of the most important points from our conversation.  OK, let me introduce Sharon Mah-Gin.  This is Sharon’s THIRD time on the TalkAboutTalk episode. You can hear her in episodes 45 and 67, where she shares her advice on networking  This is relevant for all of us, whether we are actively seeking a new job or not. If you go to the shownotes for this episode, you’ll find links to those episodes there.  Sharon-Mah-Gin earned her Commerce degree from Queens and she is a CPA and CA. She worked in auditing as and as controller before switching to executive search in 1996, when she started at Korn/Ferry International. Sharon is now an independent executive recruiter having successfully completed engagements in all functional areas including sales, marketing, operations, HR, general management, and financial. Sharon has also served on several boards, and she’s now working with the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year awards program. To keep her out of trouble in her spare time, Sharon is an active skier, a hiker, and she‘s completed several half marathons. Yes, as you heard a minute ago, Sharon has a lot of energy, and it’s infectious! INTERVIEW (unedited) Thank you, Sharon, for joining us here today to talk about communication skills for job seekers. Thank you so much. I’m delighted to be here today, Andrea, although we’ve narrowed it down to the job seeking process, it’s actually pretty broad, right? There’s a lot of things that job seekers need to be thinking about. And so I thought, why don’t we just attack this chronologically? What is the first thing that job seekers should do when they start their job search? right way to approach it, Andrea? The number one thing that I always ask jobseekers is, what is it that you’re looking for? And then from there, what’s your brand? What makes you different and unique to get to that end result? So you always start with? What do you want to be doing? What sort of jobs are you looking for? Do you? Do you want to take a step back? Do you want to grow your career? Do you want to change your career? So start with that end goal, or that dream or that vision? And then let’s work backwards on how we brand and communicate that in order to achieve that dream goal or vision? Oh, you said the magic word brand. But before we get into that, you said begin by thinking about what your goal or what your vision is. And so how can jobseekers really think about what what the goal or the vision is? So I’m going to really tailor my comments more to more senior level people versus it’s very different conversation, if we’re talking with people who are just starting off their career fresh out of university, so I’m going to really tailor it more towards that VP, C level, etc. And when I say that end goal, for example, let’s talk about a CFO search. I’m currently working on the CFO search. So if that CFO is the sort of end of his career, because you’re looking for that next step up role, does he want to work part time, global, etc. So one of the ways to do this is that if you’re sort of at that director VP, you want to sort of say, what’s the next job I’m, I want to take me to that next level of growth, it might be getting global experience, it might be dealing with analysts, if you’re an IT may be capital raising. So let’s talk about that first. And then from there, you know, what sorts of roles are we going to be looking for to help me get those skills? Okay, okay, that that makes sense. So you begin with the end in mind, I often coach people, and I try to do that myself actually begin with the end in mind. And then you draw your path. Is there a general sequence of tasks that job seekers should cover off? So you, you define what your end goal is, you think a little bit about your about your brand, which we’ll talk about in a minute, but is there a sequence of an order of operations here in order to attain that dream job? Absolutely high level, it’s that end goal, Vision dream. And then from there, it would be a matter of Okay, let’s look at my current skill set. So you can do that this goes back to that whole branding, you can get feedback from your friends from from colleagues, etc. What do you see as my strong skill sets? What do you see as my areas of growth, etc, to get some feedback to create that brand, which is so critical? Because when you’re going after that job, they’re going to be many people baby looking for that role? And you’ve got to really think about what makes you unique? What makes you different in terms of why should you be the one for that role? Yeah. Music to my, to my ears. Sharon, as we say, unique is better than better. Right? Correct. Absolutely. And I’m constantly saying that to potential candidates, like you’re giving me motherhood, what make like you’re just giving me my every CFO will tell me that there are people leader, or that I do external finance reporting, what makes you unique and what’s relevant in this role? Yes. Music to my ears to Andrea. Yeah. We’re beating to the same drum here. Okay, so So then you start to formulate what your personal brand is. And then what do you do? Like, I feel like, I’d be like, Okay, I know what I want. And I know who I am. Right now. Okay, should they be contacting you? Should they be updating their LinkedIn? Yeah, absolutely. So then, the number one thing we’re gonna say is executive search firms were like, it’d be good for outplacement firms. They’ll tell you we are 1% of your search strategy. The true way of finding that next role is another magical word for you. And I address is networking. Right? Like I mean, a lot of us in executive search, we’re making 20 or 30 searches a year. So think about that. Probably 20 or 30 people. So because we work at the senior level do go through a board, you know, there they take a while. So number one, you absolutely should let search firms know because you know, you could be that lucky one person, but the real way A from a job search is working your network. And that means getting out there. That means attending events, we did a great podcast on networking that people can listen to. And again, it’s just as a quick reminder, is getting out there to events events are happening. And that’s where communicating your brand is going to be really important at these cocktail parties. Don’t waste the opportunities, sending out emails to your warm Network. And don’t remember we talked about this the subject line, don’t waste like looking for a job, it should be, you know, CFO, global, you’re looking for, you know, use that as your branding statement, right. And then with your pitch your I mean, your elevator pitch, for lack of a better word, again, in the format of an email, not as an attachment because everybody reads those emails, you know, on their phone, and it’s a pain in the butt to open up to the cover letter and also the resume, right. That’s a great point, put it right into the email. Yes, make it easy for people to help you, whether it’s the recruiter or you know, your network friend, or the network or the acquaintance. And that, well, we’re gonna talk about pet peeves later, but that is one of my biggest pet. Yeah, we love people that make things easy for us, right? I totally get, I’m gonna say it again. Make it people generally are kind and generous and do want to help. True, but you have to make it easy for them to state. I’m just looking for a job. Well, what does that mean? Yeah, you know, and if you have target companies that use it, and you know, some companies, I’m targeting our, you know, IBM, or point click care, or, you know, like, that’s even more helpful, because then it helps people go, Oh, I know somebody who works at those companies versus this thing. Health care, that sort of? Yes. And again, I can’t emphasize that. It’s to say that I’m a CFO looking for my next role. What what industry? Yeah, yeah. Right. you’ve defined your function. It’s finance. But what about industry, right? So if you can say I’m a global CFO, with external capital, raising m&a experience, you know, currently looking for my next role, because I was just reorganized? Well, what I’m targeting are technology companies, like think research or point click care, or whatever. Yeah, much more impactful, I think you’ve just actually articulated a really nice template. So thank you, I will tell you, I’ll summarize that in the in the end. And also in the show notes, I really, I really think people are going to find that helpful. And it it again, links back to your personal brand. So we’ve got to find what your end goal or vision is, we’ve got articulating what your unique proposition is in terms of your personal brand. And we’ve got get out, get out and network. And, of course, talk to recruiters, but more so talk to friends, family, colleagues, everybody, and then using this beautiful template that you just articulated to make it easy for people to help you. So saying, Yeah, what about LinkedIn? How does LinkedIn fit in? They’re really critical, I would tell you that every single recruiter, I know whether it’s in house, or external recruiters, they all go to LinkedIn at the very beginning to do a search to sort of say, okay, if I’m looking for a board person, or C level, whatever, almost guarantee you, everybody is using LinkedIn. So it’s really important that you have it, update it, that it’s professional, that it’s clear on your branding statement, and more importantly, that you have the right key words, so that you’re found in the searches. Yes, right. I had one incident where I had a candidate who was looking for a digital marketing. And I said, this will fit your LinkedIn. Nowhere in your LinkedIn is the word digital marketing. Yeah. She didn’t realize it was like an aha moment. Yeah. Yeah. So I just gonna be a little bit prescriptive here. I’m thinking, if we were coaching this young woman, we would say, so you’re not going to put it in your headline because you haven’t done it yet. But you could put it in your about section like I am seeking this, right? Absolutely not. If it is something you’re aspiring to then say that and use the words exactly I am for my next role, or I am or I am seeking that leader. Absolutely. Because as you and I discussed underneath their name, they’re gonna have the key words of who they are, right? Like whether it’s the people that we’ve spoken with, we’ve done a really good job of that. You’ve helped them a lot with that. So a couple people have asked me this. I’m wondering if you have an opinion. Underneath your headshot on LinkedIn, there’s an opportunity that you can you can have a little ring that says currently open to for work. Yeah, open for work. Yes. Do you recommend that people use that or how do you what do you think about that? That is a really interesting question. And like you I’ve had mixed His reactions to at the higher level more senior roles, I wouldn’t advise it because I don’t I just doesn’t feel like again, it goes back to that branding statement, right. Like, people may think it looks like it makes them desperate. Right. But then you can also argue saying, well, knowing when I see that as recruit, I go, Yes, I know, they’re gonna be very warm and open to a conversation. Yeah. So the way I would answer that is it really depends on your own comfort level, it goes back to what you said about your brand. It’s really important, as you and I have discussed before, Andrea, that your brand is unique to you. It has to be relevant for the role, but more importantly, you have to own it, right? Yeah, I love your point about more senior executives, it might make you look a little bit desperate, because I that’s what I heard from somebody who’s you know, a professional LinkedIn trainer. And yet, I think about a week after I heard or read that I saw on, there was a college student, that was like a friend of one of my sons. And I saw that he had open for work looking for currently seeking a summer internship. He actually had that in his headline. And my immediate response was good for him. Yes, right. Yes, I would love it at that level. Love it. Yeah, there. And I’m, that’s exactly how I would respond. He’s taking the initiative, right, like you want to need, he’s really worked on it. It’s clear. And I know he’s available. And I know he’s gonna be open to a conversation. So later, later on in your career, though, as you become more senior, you I think you’re right, it might make you appear a little bit desperate, unless maybe you’re coming back after a leave of absence for some reason. Right. So there’s like, to your point, it depends on the context. Yes, it does. I’d love to go through some do’s and don’ts for different stages of our job search. So first of all, just to finish off LinkedIn, I know once you told me that less than half of the people that you’re placing or that you’re checking out on LinkedIn, actually have an impressive profile. So completing it is like a big do and not completing it is a big don’t. Is there and then using the keywords, as you said, Is there anything else any other advice for do’s and don’ts? Well, I mean, that’s where you can let your personality come out a little bit more, right, because I’m like a resume, which is more of a formal document, that a bolt section is so critical, because that’s where you can let you know, your love a little bit more of your personality come out. So I always say, if you can do that, and again, it goes back to the branding that we talked about, definitely, you should list all your jobs chronologically, and ideally, for your most recent jobs have at least a few key accomplishments. I know a lot of senior executives, this lists their jobs, and there’s nothing under it. So I get you may not want to do it for all the jobs but at least say for the last five years. Yeah, have at least a few key accomplishments there. And I know Sharon, because we’ve worked on on this enough with executives, what is it that they should be sharing? My three golden rules is what you’re referring to companies hire you for three things, whether you’re my 20 year old, or my CEO, who is making a million dollars, companies hired because you can help them make money, save money, or help them solve an issue. Like really think about that, like I mean, when you think about any job that you’ve applied to, when you’ve gotten hired, that person either is going yes, he or she or they can help me with this. And this, and it’s usually in the context of making money, saving money or helping them solve an issue. I think that is such an important insight for people that are job searching every line on their resume, which is the next thing I wanted to ask you about. Right. It’s more formal than the LinkedIn. And then, as you said, for at least the most recent few positions on their LinkedIn should be describing what they did, ideally, in terms of those three things that you just said. Absolutely. I can’t tell you how many times I look at a resume and I look and so for example, it might say managed 100 people. Yeah, then I go. So a lot. Yeah. Okay. So you manage people versus managed 100 people, which I coached and mentored, and two of them are now in leadership roles. Yeah. Right. Demonstrating impact. Exactly. Are the one in terms of you know, did a turn around, or an m&a deal? Yeah. Five of them. Yes. So what? Be tough on yourself and say so what? To every bullet point you have in your resume when it comes to key accomplishments, and finish the other half of that sentence? Again, it’s about making money saving money helping solve an issue. Anything else in terms of the resume do’s and don’ts, maybe especially the biggest mistakes that you see people making with their resume? app? Yeah, absolutely. too wordy where it? All I see is a bunch of words and I’m just inundated. We don’t like functional resumes. We prefer chronological resumes. Okay, of a functional resume. You’ve broken it down by your areas of attributes. So you’re making me work too hard? Yeah. To understand your background. Yeah. Most people like to start at the bottom where they go to school, any interest, any interesting hobbies, like you want to be, ideally, one but interesting hobbies. Otherwise, you’re just wasting words. Yeah, where did you go to school? What was your first job and those you don’t need a lot of Fox, if you’ve worked for 20, again, at the senior levels, the first week, just list them so that I can quickly go, okay, they graduated, they did this, I get it. Like, say a farmer person, they did sales to carry the bag and became an account manager. And then it should now get into the management roles, then you want to see a little bit more of the key accomplishments. And certainly in the last five years, she wants to see a little bit more piece to that. So no more than two pages. Less words, is better than too many words. Yeah, keep it tight. Keep it concise. The human brain can only usually process three key thoughts. Otherwise, after that they just, they forget they’ve won the prize or three. They got it. Yeah. And you did a wonderful podcast on that. So the power of three, I think nicely aligns with what you said at the beginning about making it easy, make it easy for recruiters make it easy for the people that you’re networking with. Chris Oh, okay. So moving on now to networking. And what about informational interviews? Do you have do’s and don’ts about networking and specifically about I know a lot of people that I know that have been on job searches recently said, step one for me is to do a bunch of informational interviews. So I mean, information interviews typically are done through an introduction, right? Like it’s hard to do cold call information, interviews, right? I find them helpful, if you can, really again, goes back to that networking, reciprocally. Like, for example, as soon as I get a reach out, going, hi, I don’t know you, but I’m looking for a job and just wondering if you could have some time in the next week to have a discussion on the job market. And and frankly, that makes me go nuts. Because you’re it’s a cold call. I don’t know who you are. And you think I have nothing better to do than to sit there and talk about the job market with you. Or you’re not doing any of your own research? Or you’re not going like there’s a lot of resources out there. You can you can Google anything. And you can YouTube anything. Right? So it’s almost an insult versus someone that says I was referred to you by Andrea, she’s thinks of you highly. I’m interested in going into executive search, would you have 20 minutes that you can read that I really just want to know what the key success factors and the failure factors about a career in executive search, right. So your network to find people that you can do informational interviews with? I really liked that point. I agree. Again, you’re also it’s, it’s the thing about respect and making it easy for the other person I was thinking, it’s probably a friend of a friend. Or it could be fellow alumni, right? So same high school or the same college or maybe even the same company, right? Like you both worked at the same company. At some point, you could say, I’d really love to hear your experience as you transition to whatever because I’m going to be doing the same thing. And then keep it short. You don’t have to book an hour. And you say that yet the power 30 minute meetings, no more than 30 minutes. Right, Andrea? I applied that you mentioned that to me before. And you’re absolutely right. It keeps the conversation tighter. And again, let’s talk go back to the power of LinkedIn an excellent point when you’re doing an information interview. So say I want to get to Andrea, and someone’s referred me when I call and I look you up on LinkedIn, you show me who my mutual connections are. And I can look at that and going, I want to get to two entry. And I noticed that five of those people are really buddies of mine. So I’ll contact them and say, I want to get to Andrea, and I noticed that you’re connected to her. How do you know her? That mutual connection section? Right? Yeah, that is invaluable in terms of warm introductions. Absolutely. Absolutely. And people generally will love and and that’s an easy ask, can you please. You know if you know the person well enough, can you please introduce me? Yeah, correct. That’s a great idea. Yeah. So let’s move on to interviewing. I’m sure you’ve got all sorts of stories write about people that you’ve brought in for a client who’s hiring and then the person messes it up in the interviews? Can you share some basic do’s and don’ts for interviewing? I’m gonna first start off with the power of even a simple thank you. Yeah, I am amazed at how many candidates who have done an interview don’t write a thank you note. And it comes up ones for example, when I’m doing a debrief with a candidate and they said well, Sharon, I wish I talked about this or I didn’t I could have clarified this and I said well you have a second shot at it. And they go What do you mean I said that’s the power of the thank you though, in that thank you know that you’re gonna write you thank them for their time but then you also say, I just wanted to clarify or I hadn’t thought of that. Sure. Yeah. So number one, the power of destroying your thank you all right. And then number two obviously, me these are basics but preparing yourself for the interview right? Get on their LinkedIn check out who they are see who the mutual connect shins are, you know, obviously review the company information, the position profile, when prepared have a few questions that you don’t have questions but the expectations maybe two or three, anything more than that you’re taking up too much time right? Watch the time usually they’ll tell you if it’s an hour be respectful of time somebody told me once they were searching for a new job. And this was the second round of interviews, somebody had booked a 30 minute interview. And she thought to herself, this is that meeting where if it’s only 30 minutes, I know I didn’t get the job. So when she herself is booking off time to be interviewed, even if they only say it’s 30 minutes, she would give an hour because she said in her experience, when the interview is going well, yes, the person will extend it. Do you think that might be true? Yes, absolutely. Because I try not to book that tightly, like 30 minutes, 30 minutes on the top, I try to allow myself a few minutes. And if I’m continuing, it’s because I’m enjoying the conversation. Right. So I think there is some truth to that people do the 30 minutes so that that way you manage expectations, you won’t feel if I booked an hour, I knew you weren’t gonna be my candidate. And I want to give you 30 minutes I personally that may come across as rude, right? So you’re better just say 30 minutes, and then extend, you know, and a lot of times, I will say, Do you have another 10 minutes or 15 minutes. So never booked yourself that tight. That’s a nice insight. So so keep yourself open on the on the back end. Okay, any other general do’s and don’ts that you have Sharon for job seekers? There’s this soulmate. I was gonna say I was gonna try to be respectful of your time. And certainly I’ve shared stories with you. Your pet peeve? Okay. Pet peeves for me, are people who are job seeking who come to me and are very generic and have not prepped, they expect me to do everything for them. They don’t they can’t tell me a branding statement. They can’t communicate to me what they’re looking for. Like you tell me you’re a salesperson and knowing your resume is the word sales, right? And I’m serious when I say that, they look at me going, Oh, or you know, like, what’s your brand statement? And I keep I’ll say, motherhood, you just give me me motherhood? I’m a salesperson. Okay, one more? What’s your differentiator? Why are you different? Why should I hire you? How you can help me make money? If you don’t have those answers? When I’m meeting you for a job? Shame on you? Yeah, then you’re just wasting my time and your own time. So share it, it sounds like you’re saying that if the person hasn’t developed and articulated their personal brand, they’re, they’re making it really hard for themselves. They are and you know what else, you only get one shot at it. And people are gonna remember that. So you’re at a cocktail. And as I often coach people, you’re not clear on your brand, you hear some things for you to think about. And I would ask, don’t go to the market. Don’t go attend any events, because people are going to ask, Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Yeah. What are you looking for? If you can’t articulate that, that’s a wasted opportunity. Right? You know, our world is getting crazier and crazier with social media. We all know that between LinkedIn and Facebook and stuff, and you find that people, it’s moving quickly, and people want to help. But they want you to make it easy for them. They want to remember your brand. And if you cannot articulate that clearly, then you’re just wasting everybody’s time. Yeah. And I would say the advice that I would give to someone who was walking into one of those cocktail parties would be as you said, What is the one thing you want them to remember about you? You don’t want it to be Andrea’s looking for a job you want it to be? Andrea would be awesome, in a job where whatever, like whatever that unique thing is, right? So maybe communications coach, you know, as Andrea, that’s extremely, you totally get that’s exactly what I’m saying. I can’t tell you. Unfortunately, it’s probably more often than the exception. So before we get to the five rapid fire questions, I just want you to clarify for everyone because I know as I’ve gotten to know you very well over the last couple of years, it’s become pretty crystal clear to me what the role is of executive recruiters in this process. But then I hear people talking about I’m job seeking. So the first thing I’m going to do is reach out to a bunch of recruiters and I’m like, so can you just share with the listeners, how they should be thinking about the role of executive recruiters and maybe some do’s and don’ts and maybe there are different types of recruiters. Just give us a quick summary. Okay, again, I’m talking at the senior levels, okay, like, I’m talking about retained search. We are 1% of your search strategy. Your first thing that you should be thinking about is what is my brand and figure out what your end goal is. We are executive search firms retained search firms are such a small business I mentioned to you, a lot of us maybe do 2030 searches a year. So think about that from a numbers perspective. And what I’ve told people is your client as an executive recruiter is the firm, quite lots of people that are looking for a job Yes. My clients pay me. So that’s where they get confused because contingency firms will shop your resume, right? Because they only get paid if you hire them. I’m paid on a retainer basis like a trusted lawyer or an accountant. So I work for the client. Not for the job seeker. Right. Okay, that’s great to clarify that. Okay. All right. Are you ready for the five rapid fire questions? Sharon? I am. I am. I always love this part. Okay. What are your pet peeves? Well, we talked about it earlier. But in terms of job search, I’m gonna do it that way. People will forget to say thank you, people who are not clear on their branding, so they haven’t prepped. Okay, next question. What type of learner Are you? Definitely visual. Absolutely love seeing photos and you’re such a wonderful and beautiful artists, Andrea, so I’m always admiring your artwork, and your colors and stuff? Definitely. And your check is in the mail. Sharon. Okay. Okay, question number three, introvert or extrovert? There’s a big extrovert with a big E and I get my energy and joy out of people and meeting new people and old friends, etc. Yeah, ditto. Okay, question number four communication preference for personal conversations. Depends on the relationship. But I am loving zoom these days, because I’ve really adjusted and I just move part of it is I really feel now very comfortable with it. And I can really feel the emotions etc. And if you think about it from an executive search, I’ve had the best fiscal year I’ve had and a lot eatle in my search career in the last two years, everything has been done on Zoom, which means I can have successfully closed all my searches, which means that I can obviously assess people very well on Zoom. All right video. So therefore, I really love that from a business but certainly personal on personal relationships. I love the in person. Okay, last Rapid Fire question. Is there a podcast or a blog or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending the most lately? I’m constantly recommending yours to Andrea, you really actually helped me a lot with job seekers. And then the other podcasts that I’ve really enjoyed recently is the Jay Shetty one, because what I found is that he really ties in both the spiritual and the business side. So I’ve really enjoyed listening to that. Okay, I’ll leave a link to those in the show notes. It’s great. Thank you for referring all the people to talk about talk, Sharon. Yes, my No, I believe me, I think you’re helping me. I don’t have to repeat myself. It’s almost a standard part of my courtesy interviews to be frank with you. Oh, yeah. Yes. Is there anything else you want to add in terms of communication skills for job seekers, things that will help them? Absolutely number one attitude? Be positive, you know, if you do the work, I can almost guarantee you, you will find a job. And obviously, how are you different and positive and unique and relevant for that role? And how do you make money save money? How do you solve the problem? Brilliant, you just you just wrote the summary for this podcast episode. Thank you. Thanks, Sharon. I know you’re gonna help many, many job seekers. Thank you so much. My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Take care.   THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com The post #107 Communication Skills for JOB-SEEKERS with executive recruiter Sharon Mah-Gin appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Do you have questions about Personal Branding? Andrea answers 13 personal branding questions from a live Q&A event hosted by the FishBowl app. Learn how to boost your confidence, 3 specific benefits of developing your Personal Brand, and more!   RESOURCES   FishBowl https://www.fishbowlapp.com/ Andrea on Fishbowl – https://www.fishbowlapp.com/fb/andrea-wojnicki Maye Samoiel https://www.linkedin.com/in/maye-samoiel-cpa-cica-cfe-ambci/     Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website – TalkAboutTalk.com Free Newsletter –  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Linkedin bi-weekly communication skills newsletter: “Talking About Talk” – https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/welcome-lets-talk-talkabouttalk/ TRANSCRIPT   Welcome to talk about talk episode #106 – a Q&A on Personal Branding.   My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (please call me Andrea!). I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, and I’m your communication coach. Are you an ambitious executive?  Do you have a growth mindset?  Are you looking to advance your career? Well, you’re in the right place. At Talk About Talk, we focus on communication skills topics like confidence, demonstrating leadership, and yes, personal branding. If you check out the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find tons to resources to help you, including the new online course on Personal Branding, as well as 1-on-1 coaching, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, and the free weekly email newsletter. Please go sign up for that newsletter if you haven’t already .  You can think of it as free communication-skills coaching. You can find all this at talkabouttalk.com OK – A few months ago we released the first Q&A episode focused on general communication skills – that was episode 102.  Given the overwhelmingly positive feedback we received, we decided to do this again, this time with the Q&A focused on Personal Branding. These episodes are different from other TAT episodes. You’re going to hear a Q&A that was recorded from the FishBowl App with over 850 fishbowl members listening live and firing Qs at me. Have you heard of Fishbowl? Fishbowl is a platform for professionals where they can have honest career conversations.  I encourage you to check it out. You’ll find links to Fishbowl and lots of other Personal Branding resources in the shownotes for this episode and also on the Talkabouttalk.com website. In THIS episode, you’re going to hear my unscripted answers to unscripted questions about everything from how to define a personal brand to why PB’g is important, to lots and lots of questions about improving your confidence, and even how to recover when you’ve made a mistake that might hurt your personal brand. I counted a total of 13 questions.  So this is really like a masterclass on PBing. I hope you’re ready to learn lots. And if you like what you hear, I invite you to take the recently launched Personal Branding online course. It’s called “5 Steps to Nail Your PB.” In this self-paced intensive course, I will guide you step by step through the process of articulating your personal brand. I promise this course will help you introduce yourself with confidence. You can find out all about that course on the TAT website. OK – Before we get into the Q&A, I two quick things you need to know. The first is that because of the Q&A format, you wont hear a summary at the end of this episode, because the answers to each of the Qs are relatively succinct.  Like I said, this Talk About Talk episode is different from most others. But like other episodes, you can always go to the shownotes for this episode on the TAT.com website and reference relevant links and the transcript there.  I even highlighted the 13 Qs for you to make it easy. The second thing is I want to say a huge THANK YOU again to my friend Maye Samoiel, who invited me to participate in these Fishbowl live Q&As. Maye is a dedicated forensic accountant and consultant by day and in her spare time, she’s also a Community Leader on the Fishbowl app. So this was our 2nd Fishbowl Live Q&A together, and the audience was even bigger, with over 850 people in the audience, listening and firing Qs at us. At the beginning of this recording, you’ll hear Maye and me talking about despite her shyness, she also feels fired up after these live Q&As. Maye, you’re a star.  Thank you. Alright let’s do this! Well, I see that people are joining in. So well fellow fishbowl members and especially you Andrea wish Nikki Welcome. Welcome to our Ask an executive coach event. My name is Mei and I have the pleasure to host today’s fishbowl live session. I’m a manager in a consulting firm, and a fishbowl leader. But most importantly, I’m very excited because today, we have Andrea with us. And she is here to talk about how to manage your personal brand, how to manage your personal brand. So, you might have heard of Andrea during our last session, if you don’t know her yet, Andrea is a communication coach and a podcaster at talk about talk, a learning platform to help ambitious executives improve their communication skills. And for the second time since we started the ask an executive coach series, she’s generous, generously donating an hour of her time to help each and every one of us understand how to manage our personal brand. So Andrea, I know you’re you’re you’re just started your own bowl here and fishbowl. And really, before we jump into the subject, I wanted to just learn a bit more about you what you do, what led you to coaching and how how we can reach out to you. Great, okay, thank you so much me for inviting me and inviting me back to my this is the second time I’ve done this. And I quickly agreed to do the second one because the first one was so much fun. I had such a fantastic time talking with many of you and answering your questions. So I’m really happy to be here. I love suggestions and questions from listeners. And Monday’s episode is actually about the benefits of personal branding. And so I’ve been since I started talking talk about talk, I’ve been coaching ambitious executives so folks probably like you who are more than likely done your formal education but you realize I’m I’m a good B plus, and I’m ready to be an A plus. And I I’m gonna get that way by really focusing on some of my quote unquote, soft skills, my communication skills. And over the last couple of years, I’ve really come to learn that focusing on your personal brand can provide you with a lot of traction. So that’s why when Mei and Rachel invited me to come back for this second fishbowl, they said, We should talk about a topic cuz the first one was general communication skills. And I said, Oh, it’s got to be personal branding, because I know this will make an impact on people. Love that. This is amazing. Andrea, I am personally a really big fan of yours. And I do listen to your podcasts. And I really recommend recommend them to everyone in here, I just find that you provide such insightful recommendations and just you know, the way you you present it is always so much fun, too. So we’re very lucky to have you here with us today. Thank you. So pleasure. Thank you. Amazing. So yeah, so I see that a lot of people are joining in. I’m also extending a special opportunity for you if you have questions and don’t wish to ask directly, you can message me privately, and I’ll do my best to get your questions across to Andrea. So, let’s jump right in. I, you know, I, my first question really is basic, but I think it’s important. So Andrea, what is a personal brand? So may, if you hadn’t asked me that, I would have jumped in and said it anyway. So thank you for doing so. You know, I talk a lot and write a lot about personal branding. But I always start with defining it just to get us all on the same page, because it does mean different things to different people. And that’s fair. So when when I’m coaching and thinking and writing about personal branding, I’m thinking about probably what you’re you’re also thinking about, which is your identity or your reputation, right? It just like with product branding, products have brands, and so too, will people. Okay. Jeff Bezos actually has this fantastic quote, that really helps us put this into perspective. He says, your brand, is what people say about you, when you’re not in the room. Wow, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So so we have, we all have a personal brand, whether we choose to strategically manage it or not. And when I say strategically manage, I don’t mean manipulating people, I mean, thinking strategically about how you present yourself, right, and how you present your identity to other people, and reinforcing the parts that you want to reinforce. And I also want to clarify that we are talking when we say personal brand, it is professor, personal and professional, it is all of you, we are all multifaceted, complicated, human beings with many, many, many roles. And all of those together, create our personal brand. So we can get more into that in a minute. But that I think that’s a good place to kind of start as a foundation. Wow, I love that. And so why would someone want to work on their personal brand? Like, why would they want to invest time or effort in managing that if it’s what people say when you’re not there? Okay, so it occurred to me actually, a couple months ago, that I’ve been coaching people who understand that strategically managing their personal brand is a good thing. And it’s an important thing. And it occurred to me that a lot of people don’t. And sometimes the the people that I was coaching, they’re like, my boss doesn’t really think this is important. And I was like, hang on a second, because I have witnessed, I’ve literally witnessed epiphanies and transformations of people, when they’re managing their personal brand. And so I thought about it hard. And I have come up with three benefits of why this is worth our time and attention. The first is that when we take the time to develop our personal brand, we are controlling our own narrative. Right. And again, when I say controlling, I don’t mean manipulating. I just mean, you’re not letting other people say what you are, you’re saying what you are. And I mean, a sort of extreme example of this is politicians who don’t get out there and establish their personal brands, their opponents will do it for them. And I know that most of us don’t work in that kind of brutal culture like politicians do. But the truth is, if we don’t establish what our personal brand is, other people will do it for us. So that’s the first benefit. The second benefit, I think is the most sort of exciting and satisfying one, which is, when you develop your personal brand, you will feel more confident than you have ever felt in your entire life. Because you will be articulating what your superpowers are, what your expertise is. And whenever you feel, you know, a little bit like you’re getting impostor syndrome, where you feel a shot of adrenaline, you’re nervous, you just remind yourself of your personal brand, what you are uniquely good at what your expertise and passion is. And then your confidence will be elevated so so the second one is that it boosts your confidence. And then the third one is actually forward looking. So this is this is an interesting one that if you take the time to develop your personal brand, you can become the go to person for whatever your expertise is, right? So you could be the thought leader you can be once if you have a really strong reputation, then think about it someone either within your organization or outside of your organization is looking for someone who has those traits, those values, that expertise, that passion, you’re going to be top of mind because you have such a strong personal brand. So that’s going to help you and your Future in the other thing is you, for you personally, in terms of the future, it helps you make decisions. So, for example, if I know that my superpower is relationship building, and I get an offer to work for a company where relationships are a key part of the job versus another offer, where I’m really just working one on one with another person, you know, which job do you need to take? Right? So, so establishing your personal brand helps you with decision making, too. So those are the three reasons one is control your narrative. Two is competence, and three is optimizing your future. Wow. I mean, he you state them, like, they’re really simple things. But it sounds like a lot to unravel. There’s Yeah, controlling our own narrative, I think the what I hear, you know, like in between the lines is that basically, we all have a personal brand, whether we know whether or not because like we might be setting it up. So that that’s what I’m hearing for the first one and then feel more confident. I mean, that’s awesome. We’ve talked about imposter imposter syndrome, so many times on this, on this candidate channel that, I feel like that that’s a great tool to go there. So I’m very happy to know, that’s one of the benefits. And then forward looking Definitely. Thank you for sharing these benefits entry. Someone just contacted me with a question. And he says, Hello, thanks for the opportunity. I’m a New consulting analyst, and I’m struggling with confidence when presenting. What advice does the speaker have, to help me to improve my confidence? Oh, gosh, I have I have many suggestions for helping with confidence and with presentation skills. In terms of your personal brand, one thing that I would encourage you to think about is, why it was that your employer hired you. Right? And you don’t know everything, and especially if you’re Junior, you know, you’re learning, right? So but the reason that they hired you, if you ever feel like I call it the shot of adrenaline because I sometimes, you know, it used to happen to me a lot more than it does now. But I would feel like someone kicked me in the chest, and I feel this like shot of adrenaline right? And my, my hands get sweaty, my face turns red. And if you in that moment, remind yourself of why they hired you what why you versus somebody else that can help you elevate your, your confidence. And then the other thing I would say, particularly if you’re well known, if not, particularly if you’re more junior, honestly, at any point in your career, is to really ground yourself in a growth mindset. And I know that that’s a bit of a cliche, but I talk about this with my clients all the time. And it seems to get a lot of resonance. So when I talk about a growth mindset, I’m defining it specifically as reminding yourself, I know what I know. And I’m keen to learn more. And I’m telling all the people here in this room, I’m just going to tell you right now, before I logged on to this q&a, I actually said that to myself, I know what I know. And I’m keen to learn more, I don’t know what you guys are going to ask me, I may not have an answer for every question. But I know what I know. And I’m keen to learn more. And just thinking about that really consciously. I promise you, it’s like it’s like a superpower. The really interesting thing about having a growth mindset and reminding yourself of that definition is that sometimes later on in their career in particular, people sometimes err on becoming arrogant. If you’re continually learning, you’re not going to you’re not going to become arrogant. Because arrogant people don’t arrogant people are like closed off, right? They’re closed, they’re like, defensive. And so I really think that that adopting a growth mindset is like a superpower and continually reminding yourself to do that. You know, Andrea, the first time I heard you say that, I kind of it kind of took me a moment to really, really understand it like the growth mindset and then once I was caught up in a you know, kind of a situation where you know, it was kind of a mistake and then I was starting to feel like guilty and bad and then I was like, No no, no may remember growth mindset. So you did the best you could in that situation and now you know more so You can do better. And that’s when I just, you know, your presentation of growth mindset just hit me right there during that moment. So thank you so much for that advice. Oh, I’m so glad you were able to internalize. Yeah. And, you know, by the way, that just reminded me, it’s really, really hard to adopt new habits just from listening to a q&a. So to all of you who I can see your headshots, and I’m, I’m so thrilled that you’re here. And I hope that you can take at least one nugget that is going to, you know, transform a habit or a mindset that you have. But if something in particular, you know, sounds intriguing to you that you think it might work. And I know different things work for different people. So that’s why I’m suggesting this at the beginning, write it down. And what I have done this myself is put it on a post it note on your like on your laptop screen. And until it is in your brain. Like when I’m trying to memorize something I write like, here are the three things I need to know. Boom, boom, boom, and then once I have it memorized, I get rid of it. But it’s just a bit of a hack for helping you internalize things. Wow, amazing. Thank you. I have another question here coming in. And the person is asking, when you’ve made a mistake, what is the best way to recover and fix your personal brand? I feel like it’s a little connected to what we just talked. And she’s also asking, What are Andrea’s Thoughts on comparison? Is it good or bad? Oh, these are fantastic questions. So excited. Okay. So the first part of the question is about if you made a mistake. So here’s what we all need to know. And remember and remind ourselves of that, I hope is going to take some of the edge off of all this. And that is that our personal brands will constantly evolve, period. So that means if you made a mistake, and people witnessed it, and you’re like, oh, gosh, now my reputation is going to be that I’m whatever not conscientious or that I don’t care, whatever you think it is, you can change that. We, in fact, if your personal brand is not changing, it means you’re dead, right? Like, the world is changing around us. Our relationships are changing, our jobs are changing, our customers are changing, our clients are changing, everything is evolving around us all the time. So if we aren’t evolving, then we’re dead. Like, you know, not literally, but metaphorically, we’re, we’re dead. So you can evolve your personal brand. And, and if you make a mistake, again, I remind you go back to the growth mindset, go back to the growth mindset and own up to it, I made some horrible mistakes in my career, I can tell you, I actually almost got fired when I was at Kraft because I ordered I accidentally ordered 12 times of something that I was whatever I ordered, like a pallet instead of a case of something. But anyway. So if you have a growth mindset, I’m telling you, it’s like a superpower to get you out of anything. So that’s that’s the mistake. think the other part of the question I think was about, about copying others and emulating others with your personal brand. Is that Yeah, like is it a good thing or a bad thing to compare yourself? So here’s the thing. If you’re going to spend your career, emulating others copying other people, you will be a very strong B plus, for sure. Maybe even an A minus. But if you want to be an A plus, think about the people who are really rocking it. They are in their happy place. They are unique and true and authentic to who they are. and unique is the name of the game. So I have the saying that I remind people, which is unique is better than better. Wow. Yeah. I mean, being unique, what does it mean, Andrea? So, so I’ve got so many stories, but you know, I can imagine, especially early on in the actually, that’s not even I keep saying that I don’t think it’s true. I think this happens also at senior levels, you see, one of your peers get promoted. And you’re like, why didn’t I get promoted? Or why didn’t that other person get promoted, and then you see how they act, and you say, I’m going to emulate that, I’m going to copy that so that I also get promoted, that will be that will get you so far, because you’re probably copying the positive attributes, right? If you want to really succeed, really feel fulfilled, and like knock it out of the park, you need to also adopt the qualities that you know, are uniquely true to you. And so for example, I, you know, I was coaching some senior women at one of the big audit firms, and I was talking to them about, about different archetypes, archetypes that we can emulate. And, and one of them said, one of the archetypes is the Jester. And she put up her hand, and she said, You know, I have to tell you, I want to admit something to you all, I have a pretty good sense of humor. I’m known as the comedian in my family and a comedian at work. But I actually tried to hide it, because it’s kind of not appropriate. And I said, Hang on, you just got promoted to chief of staff at your organization? And she said, Yeah, and I said, Does your boss know that you have a sense of humor? And she said, Of course he does. I said, so why are you hiding it? Why are you hiding it like, of course, you have to be professional, and you’re not going to start cracking rude jokes. But you can be that irreverent person, that light hearted person. And I can imagine you being the CEO, who is also that lighthearted, positive, optimistic person. And she she told me that it was like the biggest epiphany of her career that she’s ever had. And she said, Now I am embodying my, my true authentic self in a way that I never have before. And of course, there is a balance, right? If I’m going to be the comedian in the office, I have to be careful that I’m not seen as a jokester. But now that I know that my, this is my true self, I, I am so much more comfortable embodying my own my own personality and my own values. So I have all sorts of stories on how well I can see how that boosts confidence, for sure to be able to be yourself in an authentic, authentic, respectful manner, of course, but I can definitely see how that completely boosts confidence, right. Great example. So I know that when I used to read some books about personal branding, they would say things like, the way you dress and the way you walk and the way you you shake hands. But now we’re really living in an online environment. And so is there like a big difference between online or in personal in person branding? So I think that’s that question is important anyway, but especially been amplified. Right, since we’ve been working from home. And we’re presenting ourselves on a screen, it’s no more boardroom table, it’s around the screen, right? And my answer is pretty simple. And the answer is no, there should not be a difference. You are who you are, ideally, whether you are, you know, at home on the weekend, or you are at work, or you are whatever hanging out with friends or with your family, you’re always the same person. And that goes with through whichever media you’re communicating yourself through, and your brand will be stronger if you’re always that same person. And I don’t know about you, but I’ve known people that have literally different personalities at work versus at home. And you can only get so far doing that. It’s just not. It’s not authentic. And I know that’s another buzzword. But authenticity is a jargon word for reason. It’s a very powerful thing. So if you can be authentic in all contexts. And the other interesting thing about your question, though, May is that it reminds me I’ve spent a lot of time kind of helping people articulate what their brand is kind of as step one, and then step two is okay, now we’ve articulated it, how do we communicate it? And I guess the analogy is, if you were an advertising if you were a brand manager, right and you You write a creative brief, you’re like, This is what my brand represents. These are the values of the brand. This is the brand personality, and then you hand that brief off to an advertising agency. And they write, they write the commercial, or they write the ad. And then you figure out, Where are you going to communicate it? Are you going to put banner ads on? Are you going to do LinkedIn ads? Are you going to do Facebook ads, whatever. And it’s online, and it’s your packaging. It’s everything, right? So we as humans are kind of the same way. And so I’ve spent a lot of time actually I have, I have a document where I’ve brainstormed everything that I could think of, and I’m adding to it every week about how we can communicate our brand, offline and online. And I also think about communicating our brand, implicitly, versus explicitly. So explicitly is like, when you introduce yourself, explicitly is what’s on your resume. What’s on your LinkedIn profile? I think introducing yourself is a really powerful way to reinforce your personal brand explicitly, right? And then implicitly, it’s some of the things that you were talking about, it’s how you dress, which shows up by the way, whether you’re online or offline, right? It’s the style that you write your emails in. It’s what’s in your background behind you. It’s literally the photo that I’m looking at photos of all these people on my phone right now, that is literally creating a personal brand in my mind for each of you. Right. So it’s what is your headshot look like? It’s everything about you. So it’s explicit and implicit as online and offline. Yeah, so I’ve got a master list going. Wow, that’s, that’s really interesting. So explicitly, and then implicitly. And you talk a lot about tranx, your greatest strength, your passion. And so these are not necessarily implicit things right? Or, like, are they explicit things? How do you? How do you incorporate them in your branding? I encourage people when they’re developing their personal brand, to think about what your one main theme is? What’s the thing that you are an expert in? So that your one main theme, is the thing that you are an expert and passionate about. And it’s the thing that almost always comes up when you are introducing yourself. So when I’m introducing myself, particularly in a professional context, and honestly, sometimes even in a personal context, I would say something like, my name is Andrea, wash Nikki, and my obsession, My expertise is communication. So think about what how you might say something similar like that. So that’s kind of your main theme. And then this, this answers your question, may I encourage people to keep a list and yes, it will always change depending on what your job is. And you know, what your what your hobbies are, and everything, but keep a list of 12 to 15 key words, or phrases that prompt you to remember kind of what the main things are about you. And these things can be values, traits, like personality traits, values, things that you think are important. They can be the school that you went to, they can be the credentials that you’ve acquired. They’re very often usually including the company that you work for, right? So talk about talk is definitely part of my personal brand, being a Communication Coach. So your role is definitely part of your personal brand. Some of you may be keeping a list here. So you’ve got your, your values, your traits, your education, your employer, your role, or your title. It also includes your hobbies, your affiliations, like what clubs are you part of. It includes your family roles, it includes what gets you up in the morning, it includes like, do you meditate, it includes what sports you play, it’s all parts of your of your identity, all of the things that are positive, unique and relevant to you. And then what I tell people is, you would never introduce yourself by reading these 15 things, these 12 to 15 things, you would filter which ones of these things you want to share with people, depending on the context, right. So if I’m meeting a new neighbor, for the first time, I’m not going to say I’m a podcast or a talk about talk, I’m probably going to talk about my kids right, or how long I’ve lived in the house and maybe where I grew up, so that those things are part of my personal brand. So if you can identify what your key theme is, and then 12 to 15 key words or phrases that are positive, unique and relevant to you across all of those dimensions. You’re golden. Sounds good. So let’s say we do that we work on our personal brand. We work on the explicit items, the implicit, we look at your pure module so positive, unique, relevant. And so how do we know with certainty that our personal brand that we worked on and we were trying to manage reflects what we wanted to reflect? Well, so I think that just keeping in the back of your mind, two things, one is the fact that it will constantly evolve. And secondly, does it pass the test of positive, unique and relevant, that’s really it. Like if you have an experience For example, where you think something is positive, unique and relevant, but then you go and you find out, everybody else is saying the same thing. So it’s not unique. Or maybe someone’s not perceiving it as positive, right? I think it always goes back to these three criteria. And as I said, keeping in the back of your mind, the fact that your personal brand is constantly evolving, helps immensely. Recently, I’ve been creating an online course, that I’m, it’s not, it’s not released yet. But I’m creating an online course. And as I was creating it, I was updating my own personal brand, right? Like, I was like, Oh, I could take this one and this one and combine them into one key word, because it’s actually the same thing. I never thought of that before. And then I was like, oh, gosh, and then I thought, No, it’s okay. My personal brands evolve. So it takes the pressure off to remind yourself of that. Interesting. And so, I mean, you know, going back to the example you gave, that person was probably at a level where she got feedback about her personal about her communications and her personal brand. But what if you don’t have what you don’t reach that level, where people actually provide you that feedback? How can you test the waters? Besides from, you know, the PUR model? Is there any other way to just find out, what are people saying when I’m not in the room. So one thing that you can do that I’ve done, that I found quite illuminating, and I encourage my clients to do also is email, I always say at least five people. And some of my, some of my clients have enjoyed this so much that they ended up emailing like 25 people. And I say, that’s fine. But you just have to make sure you thank all of them. And ask them, What do you think makes me unique? And and you can ask them some other questions, right? But you’re basically at and you can say, I’m working on my personal brand. Or you can say I’m just working on a on a self improvement project. And I have a question for you. What do you think makes me unique? If you can ask, you can ask it in different ways, right? So you can say, what makes May May? Or what makes Andrea Andrea, if someone asked you what makes Andrea, Andrea? How would you answer that? So I do these exercises myself. And 95% of what you get back will be things you already know. And it’s lovely, by the way to read all these compliments from people. And there’s probably going to be a few things in there that you’re like, Oh, yeah. So one of my friends who I’ve known for years and years, and she’s a friend and a neighbor, she said Andrea has extremely, extremely high standards for herself and others. And I was like, oof, so maybe she thinks I’m a bit of a tough mom on my kids, or I don’t know what I don’t know what she’s saying with that. But then I realized, I’m definitely conscientious. And I need to add that to my personal brand, that some of the words that you include in your personal brand are going to be things that you aren’t really saying necessarily in job interviews or, or to manager, they’re more implicit. So another thing that I heard over and over again, and I hear this, after I do workshops, and coaching people always say, Andrew, you have so much enthusiasm and energy for this, like you are like off the charts. And so I have that as part of my personal brand. But I don’t introduce myself and say Hi, I’m Andrea. And I’m super enthusiastic, because that’s our or I have so much energy. That just sounds stupid. So I’m communicating that implicitly, right. So some of the feedback that you would get if you asked other people are going to be things that you wouldn’t necessarily say about yourself, but you can demonstrate it and you can remind yourself that it’s an important positive thing that you want to reinforce implicitly. So you can ask other people may but you can also just spend some time brainstorming like what is positive, unique and relevant about me. Right. So I mean, I’m definitely going to ask other people brainstorming is going to take me a bit of time. I’ll get there. I’ll get there. So I see that dimia has raised his hand. I’m going to invite you as a speaker. And you’re gonna have to accept to appear. Up here. Perfect. Yay. Hi, do you have a question for us?. Perfect. Hi, Ophelia. Hello. Hi, Ophelia. Hi. Um, well, first of all, thank you so much for just posting this, this has been so incredibly helpful. And just great information. Um, my question is, what are some ways in which someone can build confidence? What are some exercises that would be helpful and building that? Ophelia that this is probably not probably, this is the number one most common question that I get. So my answer to start is that is that it? If it helps you to know that close to 100% of the population of this planet, has confidence issues? So it kind of makes you go? Okay, right. I can also tell you, the number one most downloaded episode, I don’t know what number I can remember what number it is, but it’s it’s called mentally preparing to communicate with confidence. So obviously, people are they listened to it. And then they were like, sharing it with their friends and stuff. So it is a really common question. And it’s really, really important because it affects how we feel and also how other people perceive us. Right? Like, if you’re not confident, you’re probably not credible. So I have so many of so many tips and mindsets and tactics that I could share. Let me let me just think so if you want to get a summary, you can try listening to the podcast on its on talking about talk. But one thing that I’ve been talking about a lot lately that I think is really powerful is using the power of self talk. So creating a mantra for yourself that you can use in any situation and mine mine changes over time lately. I’m just like, Andrea, you got this, if I ever feel a shot of adrenaline, I just go deep, slow inhale. Andrea, you got this. And then that always makes me grin because it sounds a bit cheeky and, and talking to yourself like that. Research shows. So this is this is the part of the this. That’s the reason that I’ve been speaking with with so many of my clients about this lately. There’s this research that shows that if you talk to yourself in your head, the same way that you would talk to a friend that was in having the same challenges. Research shows that your self talk will be very powerful. So imagine Ophelia that you were watching Ophelia, feeling a lack of confidence after you’ve worked hard on a presentation and you’re about to walk on stage or in front of a room to give, you know, a presentation in a meeting. And what would you tell Ophelia, you’d say Ophelia, you’re smart Ophelia, you’re prepared. You know, you got this, right. And so that’s exactly the way we should talk to ourselves, we should use our own name and use second person. So you This is really taking the power of a mantra to the next level. So that’s what I’ve been talking about mantras. And if you listen to that, did that podcast episode I talked about mantras meant there is research that mantras are powerful. Now there’s even more research showing, if you talk to yourself, like your own best friend looking at you. So you say, May you are so smart, and you’re so prepared and you’ve worked so hard for this, you know, you’re going to nail it, just like a friend would say to you then then you will. So that’s one insight. Another thing that helps me is to focus on my superpowers or my personal brand. So I know I sound like a broken record.  He’s really helpful. Thank you.  thank you for the question. Ophelia. Yeah, sounds great. Oh, I see someone here that I’m just going to invite my jewelry yamdrok. Can you all hear me? Yes. Hi. Thank you, for all the nuggets of you know, knowledge there, I’ve been listening through and enjoying thoroughly. I guess my question is a slightly catered differently, not towards communication, but ended up probably would love your, you know, bullets there. At what point in your career, at what level in the corporate hierarchy, would you recommend someone should absolutely have a career coach or kind of a paid mentor, who can help shape their career? I’ve always kind of played with the idea. But then, you know, we all find mentors through our professional lives. And I’ve just lived with that. But I’ve always taught to At what point does it become absolutely must to pay up, you know, career coach to kind of help shape and cater specifically towards your own career? That’s, that’s a great question, Mary. So I was actually talking to my husband about this last night. And I said, when I got into this business, I honestly thought I was going to be giving speeches and doing workshops and doing my podcast and my, my coaching part of my business has really exploded, and I said, it’s almost like therapy, like, you know, 20 years ago, if you had a therapy, or maybe not 20 years ago, but 30 years ago, if you had a therapist, it was because you were like cuckoo, like, let’s just be clear. But now everyone’s got a therapist. And I said, I feel like the same thing is happening with coaches, like everybody and my, my, my clients, but my friends, and even even my kids, friends like Pete, like everybody’s doing this, when they get a new job, they’re actually negotiating as part of their not their compensation, I guess it is sort of compensation. But as part of their job package, they’re negotiating that they get a coach, like it’s becoming totally normalized. So, so just a couple things. If you are really keen on getting a coach, I would say there is a way of asking for one, that there’s really no downside. Because you are implicitly at least if not explicitly, communicating to your employer, that you want to improve and grow. And you’re you’re basically communicating your ambition. Right. So I actually have I have a lot of people contact me, and they assume that they will pay for the coaching. And I say to them, hang on a second before you think that you have to eat this, like, you need to talk to your your HR department and or your manager and almost 100% of the people that I’ve encouraged to do that their boss says, yes. Or their HR department says yes. And then they realize like, Oh, I’ve just communicated to them that I want to get promoted. I’m like, yeah, yeah, have and they’re impressed. And they’re watching you now. Right. So. But it answered to your question also, more specifically, the more senior you become, the more important it probably is, because you may have fewer and fewer peers or people that can mentor you, because you’re becoming like you’re becoming the mentor. Right. So who’s gonna mentor you? Right? Right. Okay.  So yeah, good luck. Good luck. I’m sensing that you’re gonna go ask for it. Or I might just pay out of pocket, but I’m definitely gonna investigate into it. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. But definitely, you know, I think a coach is having a coach is amazing. And just as an anecdote, we’ve had Andrea, coach here, within my firm at PwC, for you know, like a series of coaching on communication. So definitely, I think that the companies can only win from from having their employees communicate better. Hi, Michael. Hi, can you hear me? Hi, Michael. Claire. Any advice to somebody who’s trying to start a podcast? Oh, you’re trying to start a podcast? Yeah. Just recruiting, coaching as well. So, so just just in general, just any advice and just getting started in, you know, coming up with ideas to start is to subject matter how to brand, things like that. So I would say the most important thing when you’re starting a podcast is actually just defining your target market as narrowly narrowly as you can. So when I started my podcast, 98 episodes ago, I was like, everybody’s interested in communication. I’m gonna sort of target it to executives, but whatever. And now I’m like, No, it I realized over time, the more specifically I was talking to people like that are on this platform like on fishbowl, right? You are all ambitious executives. That’s why I’m here. You guys are my target market. I realized over time that the more specific you can be the better and to be honest, I think this is related. Everybody who’s here for personal branding is actually related to personal branding. So it’s like, what is unique about you? Because there there are over a million podcasts, podcasts out there, right? Why would you choose one because it is uniquely interesting to you in the same way that as a human like think about all the people I’m scrolling through the beautiful headshots here, all the people that could be hired to do all of the jobs that all of you do, and it’s something unique that you’re bringing to the table to work every day. That’s the reason why you got your job and, and so, I cannot emphasize enough as a marketer as a communication coach and as a podcaster. The significance of being really focused and unique. Awesome, thank you.  Thank you.   THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #106 Q&A on Personal Branding appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Do you ever worry people might think you’re bragging? Lisa Bragg encourages us to focus on what makes you remarkable, and shares why you probably don’t need to worry about bragging. Host Andrea Wojnicki also shares 2 ways to talk about your superpowers without bragging.   RESOURCES   Lisa Bragg LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisabragg Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thatlisabragg Mediaface: https://mediaface.ca/     Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20min consult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Linkedin bi-weekly communication skills newsletter: “Talking About Talk” – https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/welcome-lets-talk-talkabouttalk/   TRANSCRIPT   I’ve got a Q for you. Do you ever wonder if you sound like you’re bragging? Here’s an even better question. Is bragging a bad thing? Is it always a bad thing? Over the course of this episode, you’re going to hear from an expert in bragging, Lisa Bragg.  Yes, her last name is Bragg. Lisa encourages us to think about bragging just a little bit differently. In my conversation with Lisa, you’ll learn about bragging, self promotion, self aggrandizing. And yes, of course, your personal brand. Are you ready? Welcome to Talk About Talk episode #105, where we’re focusing on Bragging, self-promotion, and your Personal Brand. Let me introduce myself. My name is Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (please call me Andrea!). I’m the founder of Talk About Talk, and I’m your communication coach. Are you an ambitious executive?  Do you have a growth mindset?  Looking to advance your career? Well, you’re in the right place. At Talk About Talk, we focus on communication skills topics like confidence, demonstrating leadership, and yes, personal branding. If you check out the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find tons to resources to help you, including the new online course on Personal Branding, as well as 1-on-1 coaching, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast, and the free weekly email newsletter. Please go sign up for that newsletter if you haven’t already .  You can think of it as free communication-skills coaching. You can find all this at talkabouttalk.com.  In this episode, you’ll hear my conversation with Lisa Bragg where we discuss what bragghing is, how it differs from say, self-aggrandizing, and how to tell if you’re going off the deep end there. As always, you don’t need to take notes, because I do that for you. So just keep doing whatever you’re doing. Whether you’re doing housework, or working in your kitchen, whether you’re going for a walk, or whether you’re in the car. You don’t need to stop to take notes ’cause I do that for you. At the end of this episode, I provide a summary of some of the most important points from our conversation. I’m ALSO going to add my own two cents, in terms of some tips for how you can share your achievements and things you’re really proud of, without sounding like you’re bragging or self-aggrandizing.  OK, let me introduce Lisa Bragg. Living with the name Bragg, Lisa has had to master the art and science of self-promotion. She’s seen when being too humble has cost international deals and when bragging right has unlocked opportunities leading to untold fortunes.  Lisa helps high-achievers of all sorts to be seen, heard and share their value with the world. She delivers keynotes and workshops to international audiences. Her book, Bragging Rights, will be released in 2023.  Lisa is the award-winning entrepreneur behind MediaFace, one of Canada’s first content companies. She’s also a former broadcast journalist. Lisa’s involved with several charities and is a long-term member of many organizations supporting leadership, including Women Presidents’ Organization (WPO), SheEO and WBE.    INTERVIEW (unedited) Thank you, Lisa, for joining us here today to talk about bragging self promotion and your personal brand. Thanks for having me. I’m excited. Let’s start with the obvious. I’m really curious to hear about your name and how your name relates to your fascination with bragging. Yeah, you know, it’s my childhood name. It’s my maiden name. So I grew up with it, and didn’t really realize it was a name that stood out until I was about 1314 years old. And people would say, Oh, what are you bragging about something and you’re bragging? And I’m like, What? What I’m saying what do they mean by that? And it wasn’t always said with the best intentions are Shinji brag about that. But there’s often a tone about it. So got me really curious young. So it’s a little bit polarizing. So it’s interesting to see. So then started studying it. And that’s where it’s led me to today. So do you think that our name affects us? I mean, obviously, in your case, it did. But generally, I think it does. I think it does influence you know, especially if you have a tough name, that people then will lean in a different way. And you’ll notice different attention if they’re trying to get it or they ignore how to properly pronounce your name. Growing up, I had a friend name mu Lee, and her name was mu mu. And she changed it. So imagine being new to Canada, and your name in grade three is mu. And you know, so right away, it was something on her as first of all being a brand new Canadian. So then she changed it to Monica. And I was really upset that she changed her name, because I thought her name was so beautiful on its own, but you have to go through your own journey. So these names that we put on our children, I do think it does influence who they are and who will become It’s like another thing that you carry with you. I think that’s why we see people change their name, they want to change something about them. Does it last by just changing your name? I don’t know. I think it’s like it goes with you no matter what if you’ve had that name for so long. So yeah, that’s another episode. Shout out to mu mu Li. So whatever her name is today. So yeah, so I have to just add two things. One is that I heard when I was choosing names for my children, this is an opportunity to do them a great favor or a big disservice. So try to do them a favor, right? And the other thing is my maiden name is Campbell. Nice and easy. Yeah. For most, for us, most of us Yeah. To my husband’s name for Neitzke. And it’s like, wow, so I have this lens of what it was like to have the easy name and now have the more challenging him for many people to pronounce and spell and yeah, so yeah, let’s let’s get going with the with bragging. So, definition. What is bragging? Yeah, so I go back to what bragging when it originally landed in the world, and they cannot find what language it’s actually from. So there’s some thoughts that Scandinavia, and maybe it’s Italian, maybe it’s French, because it doesn’t actually fit into what we know, is English today properly. And so it’s confusing, but they find it in old poetry in different places. And what it really meant was shine and shimmer. But then it also added with pride. And nowadays, a lot of people do. There’s different when you talk to people and ask for the definition and look at different dictionaries, there is a range of how people define it. So some people define it as talking about yourself, and that you’re putting down others and you’re talking with too much pride. And it’s a judgment piece. And other people, though, say it’s talking about your success. And so I talk about it as talking about your success. And that’s where I think it really lands is that and when you look at what bragging rights is that’s talking about your success, it’s not that put down. It’s not that, but it’s the rah rah that we have when we talk about something that we’re successful, but I never want it to be put down or anyone else to feel bad, because we’re talking about our success. So I define it as a good thing. Yeah. So I’m one of the people who To be honest, would have thought bragging is inflating and unnecessarily drawing attention to your own accomplishments or credentials, or whatever they are. Right. I do think that’s one of the definitions. Yeah. And then self promotion is probably the same thing. As self enhancement. Maybe you’re getting a little bit away from that it’s being seen as favorable. So it’s positive as opposed to negative. So how does bragging in your work differ from these other terms? Yeah, I think one of the first things to know is that what I’ve discovered is that bragging is really in the ear in the eye of the beholder. So if you are in your own home, and you’re with your own things, is that bragging, it’s when somebody looks in and sees Oh, you have a beautiful house or you have a nice car, and then people will think that that’s you showing off. And so when does it become just here’s who I am and my success versus showing off. And so that’s where it’s really often bragging is not so much talking about our successes, is bragging but if we were thinking of it in the negative way, well, when does it become? It’s always been on the person who’s listening. So then I feel all upset that you’re talking about yourself, I feel less than because you’re talking about yourself or doing self promotion. So there’s a really interesting framing of who’s listening to it and who’s who’s the person who’s putting it out there in the world. So you have to it’s bragging is in the ear on the eye of the beholder, or when you think of it in the negative way. So, but to get to your initial question about bragging self promotion, so I define bragging as really talking about our successes, and it’s much more of the strategy piece. It’s like the way up here, it’s how we feel, it’s how we think about things. And then the self promotion is the execution of it. So the tactics and so often, we just go to self promotion without really doing the great big thinking of where we want to go. In the future. I always talk about, we always mark it to where we want to go not to where we’ve been, which which is reputation comes into the mix of what I talked about. So reputation, bragging, self promotion, and personal brand. And so a reputation of the past. But where do we want to go as part of our personal brand, and self promotion is the amplification of it. And it’s exactly everyone in the audience wants to do a video, we want to do a podcast, we want to do a LinkedIn post, we want to do all those fun things that will get the eyes. But it’s really all of that thinking work that makes the difference. It’s that, you know, I think it’s Oprah who we always have to reference in at least one podcast today. But it’s like that we have to she’s like, you know, I do 95% of the hard work behind the scenes and you only see 5%. And so that’s what all the work is. So the self promotion is the amplification after you’ve thought about the bragging and and so we’re aren’t we are talking about our successes. And self promotion will then amplify it for you. Oh, my goodness. So the listeners can’t see the look on my face. But I have a massive smile on my face. Because you know, at least you’re speaking my language using different words, which is, I think, really fantastic, to be honest. But one of the things that I strongly believe in, when I’m working with my clients on their personal brands, is that before you start talking about it before you start communicating it, you need to articulate it. So I always say there’s two steps. One is articulate or create your personal brand. And two is communicating now Lisa’s got them with a smile. Yeah, that’s exactly it. Because so often though, you know, somebody gets a new guru or a new thing pops up. So and everyone wants to be on tick tock, well, what are you going to say? And that’s where you run out of content, you run out of ideas, because you haven’t taken a step back to really think about, what do I want to project in the world? And it’s always about where do I want to go and say, you know, what my body of work before doesn’t really fit where I want to go? How do I figure this out? And with some thinking time and an expert, then you can figure out, you know how it ties in? Because there’s always a red thread, everything we do. Yeah. So even if you go from, you know, being a plumber to an electrician, you would be able to figure that out, there is a tie in the way you think how you your values in the world. It all ties together. So absolutely. So in this framework, where you have the two steps, or the two kind of meta steps of creating it, and then communicating or self promoting, where exactly does bragging fit in was one question. And then the other question is, why do you think it has evolved from its from what you told me in sort of a neutral etymology of the word to something that has become so negative, like Stop bragging, or he’s bragging? Or she’s bragging? Right, it’s definitely got a negative connotation. So it definitely does. And I think it goes back to so I’ll take the second part of your question. First, I think it goes back to, we were all part of, you know, small communities or tribes back in the day. So we were all and so are known as our grandmothers, or grandfathers, everyone knew what we did, there was only one candlestick maker. And so we didn’t have to say, Hey, I’m the best brought, you know, the world’s best cup of coffee on every corner. We didn’t have to do that. So people would talk about us. And we were all within proximity. So they knew the value I brought, and they could come to me and you know, exchange that value. And then we moved into the factory system where it was very dangerous for us to stick our necks out like you really, you wanted that paycheck. And now we’re moving out of that time, we’ve been moving out for out of it for a long time, but we just haven’t had the language and understanding you can only look back to see where we’ve come from. But now we’re in this knowledge based look at us here, peer to peer economy where it’s less hierarchical, where less top down and it’s more about how do we exchange goods and services? Going back to where we were, where more and more more and more of us are piecemeal or project workers? Yeah, so we’ve gone from elite individual yes, we’re back to individual and I don’t want anyone thinking Oh, my goodness, that’s so like, I don’t want to say the name but you know that we’ve had somebody who’s quite bombastic with his, you know, yeah, with his with his but it’s that’s an interesting study. being neutral, interesting study in itself. But you know, when you’re really loud and you really are, that’s the that word to define it is self aggrandizing. So if that’s a mouthful of a word that we don’t say, and so what we really say, when we’re hearing somebody, narcissistic putting people down, you know, forgetting people who are often really into self aggrandizing don’t have a sense of tomorrow or the past, they are living in the moment. And so self aggrandizing does work in that moment when you only have this moment to think about. So that’s where the self aggrandizing happens, but that narcissistic, bombastic all the negative things that you think with bragging, it’s actually that multisyllabic word, self aggrandizing. So it’s a heavier word for people. But that’s what we’re really thinking about. So now that we’re in this peer to peer economy, knowledge based, we do have to be somewhat individualistic poaching, here’s how I serve. If I know how you serve, then I can say, well, you need to know this person here, right, because you are the perfect person to serve them. And then when you come together, then you’re making everything better for the next person. So we’re in service of each other by bragging. So it’s that jump for people to say, here’s what I’m good at, let other people know. And then they’ll say, Ah, I know how to use you in this world. Now, instead of hiding, I call it being a hidden gem. And so many of us, especially women, are so great at being hidden gems. Oh, my goodness, I am. So in my happy place right now in this conversation. So a couple of things that you brought up. One is I’ve been using slightly different terminology to say some of the same things, which is we work firm centric, and now we’re becoming more individual centric. And I don’t know if you’ve observed the same thing in your work. But when individual coaching clients come to me, one of the first things that they almost always without exception want to talk about and work on is the development of their personal brand. So articulating it and then communicating it. And then we develop a list of here’s what we’re going to do. And then we sometimes go back to their manager or the HR manager, whoever. And very often, I’d say half the time, personal branding gets taken off the list, because they’re seeing it as if this person is serving the firm, we’re not paying for them to become more of an individual, right. And when I help when I strategize with companies and talk about it, too, that’s the wrong way to think about it. And so when we look at it, we actually know that the brands of individuals get more attraction than the brands of companies. Yeah. So we want to see humans doing human being doing humans, we want to see humans being humans, like that’s what we want, we are attracted to the human experience. And so big brands, brands of any size companies of any size doesn’t get the play that the people in your firm do. So by letting your people shine, if they want to shine, and giving them that freedom, it actually makes them more loyal to you, and it builds your brand, I call it being in the halo. So it’s a halo effect, I have these great people shining their light. Now I’m going to attract even more a players to my team, because they can see that Rochelle works on my team. And I know she’s awesome. Look at the content she’s putting out. I love her values. And she’s singing the praises of this company. I want to go work with Rochelle. Exactly. So I just had a conversation with my friend Andrew Jenkins, who’s a social media expert, but typically b2b, but he talks about how firms, for example, on LinkedIn, can click a button that says notify all the employees at this company that we did this post and then the ones who want to, can further amplify it. That’s kind of the most direct or explicit way of leveraging that Halo. But then there’s this like continuum, maybe to the most implicit, which is, you meet someone and they tell you that they work at a firm and they’re a really cool person. And you’re like, Oh, the firm must be really cool then Right? That’s kind of the implicit. Yeah, exactly. And the challenge, though, that so many companies, they want to hold it the communications want to control it so tightly that they don’t allow people to be their own individual person. And then that becomes a rift because where is the line now? It’s like this nine to five world Well, where’s the line between that is part of the company, and this is who I am. And I always tell people, you need to, you know, get your brand out there get talking about you need to talk about your stuff, I’m sure you say this to talk about yourself now and build your brand, build what you’re talking about before you actually need to use it because you need to be making connections, you know, six months, a year, three years in advance before you you actually need somebody to help you strategically. So many people if you’re looking for a job, you’ll think Oh, well I better get on social media and let people know or fluff up my LinkedIn Yes, now is always the best time to start out. You know, it’s like that, that you know, when is the best time to plant a tree 25 years ago or today, so but don’t wait get it going. And I think companies have a hard a conflict to where they also think their employees are going to take off because they’ve been fixing up their LinkedIn. You know, it should be a matter of business to say Hey, I want you to shine, let’s help you shine, it’s almost a well being package that that everyone should be able to shine. Yeah, 100% I feel like that whole attitude that, oh, I just noticed that my direct report, you know, updated his or her LinkedIn, they must be leaving that that’s a little bit old school. I mean, the the clients that I’m working with, they’re thinking of their LinkedIn profile as their interactive business card that they’re sharing. And it’s like this medium that they control, and that they can direct people to when they meet them, right. So that’s a beautiful way of putting it. And I think it’s that, you know, we’re putting our ideas out there. And you never know when the right fit is going to come along that another company might say, You know what, she does have a great idea. We should partner with a company, there’s so many opportunities because of it, but the threat part of it. That’s the scarcity mindset. And I think more and more, we have to realize it’s about abundance. We just have to show and articulate how we are different in the world, or remarkable or it gets hard to say, here’s how I’m different. But how are you remarkable. Yeah, remarkable. But I need to use that word more. Yeah, yeah. Cuz it’s really hard to say how I’m How am I unique? You know it? That’s hard. How am I different? Okay, here’s a few more things. But how am I remarkable and taking that time to sit and think about, you are remarkable. And you need to own that. And that’s a lot of what the bragging rights is. And the book that I’m writing is thinking about how you are remarkable and how you want to show up. So it’s that inventory of the things that you do and that you are awesome. So because we’re all awesome. So remarkable is a fantastic word. The other word that you use, that really piqued me, I actually wrote it down in front of me is self aggrandizing. So my last question, before we get to the rapid fire questions is, how can we promote ourselves or brag, without going over the deep end into sounding like we’re self aggrandizing, if you are worried at all about bragging, then you’re not bragging. It’s the people that really, like better so far beyond that would never even catch themselves to say, whew, I wonder if, if I’m gonna get a reaction to this post a negative reaction or worry about it, then you’re probably already too self aware that you’re, you’re hiding. So it’s the people that are constantly saying, Look at me, look at me, those are the people that it becomes a problem. But it’s also the easiest way to start is by amplifying someone else, shine a light on someone else. You know what, you’d be surprised, get a buddy, get a friend and you know, have her amplify with you. So trade things and get her to shine the light on you, you shine the light on her. I see it all the time. And I’ve studied certain people. And I see that they’re actually working in tandem or in groups, and they help each other. So I’m not saying get some sort of chain mail thing going but help each other. So when somebody posts something, when Andrea posts something, I am definitely going to be there liking it and commenting on it. So just getting out there and amplifying it. So I’m going to sneak in another question then before the five rapid fire questions, Lisa, because as you’ve been talking, I’ve been thinking about the research that I’ve certainly seen, do you think that there’s a difference in bragging between men and women? I definitely do. I’ve done my own research, though. So we’ll just want to point out that a lot of that research, as good as well intended as it is, is based on a very small cohort of people that are so often it’s mostly American universities, and based on a very small group of people. And so it’s 20 year olds who are responding to these things. But I do think we’re ingrained as young women especially because it’s always about external validation. So we’re always seeking this other validation, when we need to start inside, it’s that inside work, but we’re always always looking for the external visual validation. And then we’re also looking for, you know, its external validation. But we’re also taught to be about the team and about the family, in every case, and so giving it away is a gift. So give it to somebody else, make sure someone else doesn’t feel bad. We’re, we’re so heavy with empathy. And so it’s like, well, I don’t want to make you feel bad, because I’m bragging and bragging might make you feel bad, right? So because I’m talking about my successes, and so we get in this vicious cycle of our minds, instead of where boys are often trained to be bold, and to talk about it right in the moment and to get it out there and be boisterous. And so we so often internalize it. And it’s that whole thing where we don’t say it in the moment, it’s that, oh, I’m gonna wait a few more seconds, I’m gonna wait or the opportunity is not there. A lot of it is team sports too. in team sports, boys are taught to, you know, I gave it 100 I’ve interviewed my backgrounds, TV news, so many people in sports, and they do have that and bragging is really expected in sports through and with CEOs too. It’s really expected for them to talk about their successes. And so we so often it’s I gave it 115% and male and females will talk the same way because they really want to show that they have thought about context and those contexts, but when you take it out to the general world, and Through I’ve sort of done a research survey that to date has more than 300 people who’ve responded internationally. So there’s also a global context of regional context to all this too. But it does. There’s so many pieces of who you are that come into, does your family allow you to brag and talk about successes, and one woman I interviewed for the book, and I know, we’re probably out of time, but she does a great and grateful with her kids. So talking about what the language is, of being great. So how are you great today? And then also, how are you grateful, because we need to balance it out. So put that out there. And that’s from Emily, who is in going to be in the book, but put it out there, how great you are, and then also how grateful so that’s a good balance to all of it, especially talking about it with our children, that they do need to signal how they show up in the world. So So I love how you turned to my question about is there a difference between the genders? And then you added? There’s, the answer is probably yes. But it’s also there’s an interaction effect with the context like is it sports? Or is it a group versus an individual or even the country right? Is it an individualistic or collectivist country and culture? So yeah, wow. Okay. That’s all in my book. Yeah. And I will put a link to your book and to your website, I’ll make sure so everybody can connect with you, whether they’re listening to this episode, before the book is published, or after it’s published, they’ll be able to connect with you to find that. So thank you. Let’s move on to the five rapid fire questions. Okay, ready to go. First question is, what are your pet peeves? Oh, I actually have a lot of them. I thought about this question. But one of them is, in Toronto, where I live, there is so much construction all the time. And for some reason, the cladding or the hoarding goes right out to pass the sidewalk. And so we end up walking in live lanes of traffic. And that just just makes me so mad. But I’m one of those people that I want to fix so many things. So I have I actually have a lot of pet peeves. It’s actually sad that I have so many of them, but I have been on an airplane or somebody has clipped their nails all the Yeah, so all those kinds of things. I don’t know, is that even a pet peeve? Because that’s just total of us guessing. That’s just Yeah. So broadly shared that the range of them but that’s, that’s, that would be my big one. Okay. Second question. What type of learner Are you? I am both visual and an auditory. I’m a visual, and I’m not so much kinesthetic. But I do read a lot. So I read a lot of books. And I take a lot of notes through that. So and then I also being in broadcast news, very visual. So we’d have to go out and see the story visually and understand what that looks like and then marry it with a script. So bringing it all together. So I think I’ve always been both but a voracious reader. Okay, question number three, introvert or extrovert ambivert. I love collecting the energy from everyone else in the room and presenting and doing workshops and keynotes. And then I love to go back to my hotel room, and close the door and breathe. And also, I’m reading a book. So you have to be quite introverted. If you want to actually write a book, you have to be able to go into your head and spend a lot of time in your sweatpants and hair in a messy Bong. And just not that that’s what an introvert means. But I mean, being alone with yourself and accepting yourself and going through the messy pieces of it and not having to have energy from everyone else. So so that’s where I really think I love both. Okay, question number four. What’s your communication preference for your personal conversations? Yeah, you know what, I think I just do everything again. It’s like, I’m all over the place with it. So I will text I will do social media. I will call. I think I’m less about calling now I’ve almost fallen into that whole thing where I have to text you before I call you. Do you have one friend that will actually just pick up the phone? And I’m always like, is everything okay? Yeah. So yeah, Hi, Laura. So it’s like that thing where I’m like, Why do I have to text you when we you know, we’re of an age where we would just pick up the phone and call, but now I just feels like part of the thing. But if you are not like that, that’s great, too. So, but I’m open to any, any way. Just keep me sending me the signals and I’ll pick them up. Okay, last question. Is there a podcast, a blog and or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending a lot lately? Yeah, I have so many. So I did think about this. And one of them is Whitney Johnson. She just gives so many gems and everything she does. So I would recommend signing up for her newsletter and for her podcast and her podcast is called disrupt yourself. Okay. It’s just never heard of that. Yeah, just so many great gems that I find and so many of the conversations and it’s about how we continually disrupt ourselves and jump to the next level of whatever it is that we want to do so and then. I also recommend brown Table Talk. It’s with DC Marshall. And meet Malik and meet us in the book and brown Table Talk. It’s about, you know, getting yourself out there navigating the corporate world, but especially from a person who is, you know, the brown brown lens of brown. And so how, as a white woman, how can I be an ally and watching that what we’re doing and saying and how we can support each other, because I really believe that we can support each other and making sure that I watched the Q’s and how we can all grow together. So, so many great things from me to out there. And then two pages from Michael Bungay Stanier. So I don’t know if you know him MBs. So not the MBS. But MBS is his and he’s the coaches coach essentially has so many great things. He’s coached Brene, brown, so, so many great things he offers. And His things are so digestible, he’s, I really appreciate somebody who’s really able to take bigger concepts and make them that it’s quick and easy. And something that we can take right away as a little snack instead of making this huge, big dinner all the time. So I appreciate that kind of work. I can’t wait to listen to all of those. And I will definitely put links in the show notes so that the listeners can do the same thing. Is there anything you want to conclude with in terms of bragging self promotion and your personal brand, it’s really think about who you are. So that’s the personal brand piece really thinking about that, then it’s also you know, don’t be afraid to talk about your successes. Just try it a little bit. It’s a step by step. It’s just getting a little bit of courage, and then saying one thing and then get a little bit more courage and say one thing and you will not melt. By doing this work, you will keep going and growing and thriving. You’ll see how it goes and and amplify, amplify each other and let the world know how awesome you are. Thank you so much, Lisa. I really really enjoyed this conversation and I can’t wait to do it again. Thank you can’t wait. Thank you THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #105 BRAGGING, Self-Promotion & your Personal Brand appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Are you communicating and enabling psychological safety? Psychological safety is a key contributor to team performance. A climate of psychological safety means increased learning, creativity, productivity, satisfaction and engagement. Andrea defines what psychological safety is and is not, then she shares several strategies for how we can communicate psychological safety. There are mindsets to adopt, behaviors to action, and words to say to communicate psychological safety.   RESOURCES   Psychological Safety Recommended resources from Professor Amy Edmondson: https://amycedmondson.com/recommended-resources/ NYTimes on Project Aristotle: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/what-google-learned-from-its-quest-to-build-the-perfect-team.html HBR on Psychological Safety: https://hbr.org/2017/08/high-performing-teams-need-psychological-safety-heres-how-to-create-it https://hbr.org/2021/04/what-psychological-safety-looks-like-in-a-hybrid-workplace PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/creating-psychological-safety-in-the-workplace/id152022135?i=1000428229584   Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20min consult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/   THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #104 Communicating Psychological Safety appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Communicating with precision improves comprehension, recall, persuasion, and likeability! Whether it’s verbal or written, clear and concise communication is appreciated by others. Learn three strategies you can employ to communicate with precision.   RESOURCES   Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk  Website –  https://talkabouttalk.com  Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20min consult – Book Andrea    THANKS for LISTENING.  Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web: https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com   ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #103 Communicating with PRECISION appeared first on Talk About Talk.