Content and Conversation: Organic Growth Insights from Siege Media

Kristan Bauer returns for a deep dive into the technical and organizational SEO strategies that helped Zillow grow to nearly 2 billion annual visits. She shares tactical insights on enterprise SEO at scale, including testing frameworks, internal collaboration, indexing strategies, and what it takes to lead with executive presence in a high-stakes environment. Ross and Kristan also unpack the challenges of long-tail targeting, structuring an SEO team for success, and how to know when it’s time to build your own SEO testing platform. 00:00 – Welcome Back Kristan & The Zillow SEO Journey00:34 – From Agency to Zillow: What Made Zillow’s Traffic Explode01:09 – How Zillow Reached Nearly 2 Billion Visits/Year03:23 – The Hidden SEO Power of Off-Market Listings04:23 – Internal Linking Tactics to Boost Indexing06:52 – Long-Tail Dynamic Pages from Listing Descriptions08:44 – Managing Page Quality in Long-Tail SEO10:21 – When & Why Zillow Invested in an SEO Testing Platform12:09 – How SEO Was Structured at Zillow (and Why It Worked)13:58 – Quarterly Planning + Executive-Level SEO Visibility15:05 – One-on-One Collaboration With Other Channel Leads17:10 – Building a Culture of Shared Ownership Around SEO18:56 – Risk Management via SEO Testing Platforms20:39 – Why Testing Is a Must at Enterprise Scale22:51 – How Zillow Prioritized Smart Resource Allocation24:41 – How to Know When It’s Time to Build a Platform26:41 – Structuring SEO Inside Product vs. Marketing30:06 – How Cross-Team SEO Works at the Enterprise Level32:21 – Building Executive Presence & Communicating Up34:05 – Wins, Challenges & Transparent SEO Reporting36:00 – SEO Summits with Airbnb, Yelp, TripAdvisor & More41:00 – Final Lessons: Communication, Creativity & Big Rocks Kristan’s Website: https://www.kristanbauer.comKristan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristandaubleOur Previous Episode on Enterprise Real Estate SEO: https://www.siegemedia.com/conversation/kristan-bauer Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes Eli Schwartz, author of‬‭ Product-Led‬‭ SEO‬‭ , to unpack the evolving‬ role of SEO in a world shaped by AI, shifting perceptions, and organizational‬ challenges.‬‭Eli dives into why SEO is being deprioritized, what companies are getting wrong,‬ and how product-led SEO is the path forward.‬‭They cover layoffs, agency churn, the role of growth teams, and why most‬ companies‬‭ shouldn’t‬‭ do SEO at all.‬ ‭ Show Notes:‬‭ 00:00 Welcome Back Eli & The Current Pulse on Search‬‭ 00:53 Marketing Layoffs & Volatility in SEO‬‭ 02:31 Why SEO Struggles to Defend Its Value‬‭ 05:49 AI Search vs Traditional SEO — What Actually Changes?‬‭ 07:58 Are We Just Rebranding SEO?‬‭ 09:27 Visibility, Links & Human-Like Search Engines‬‭ 12:50 The Problem With “AI SEO” Hype‬‭ 14:45 Why Edge Case SEO Will Die Fast‬‭ 18:19 Why “Technical SEO” Isn’t a Moat Anymore‬‭ 22:06 The AI Content Misstep: Spam at Scale‬‭ 24:27 The New SEO: Blending Human + AI + Product‬‭ 28:11 Your Product Has to Be Good Now — Period‬‭ 29:20 Revisiting the Book: What Eli Would Update‬‭ 30:20 The Spicy Take: Most Companies Shouldn’t Do SEO‬‭ 35:03 How to Evaluate if SEO is Right for You‬‭ 38:45 The “Tax Preparer” Problem With Agencies‬‭ 41:06 If You’ve Fired 3 SEO Agencies… It’s You‬‭ 43:20 The SEO Funnel Needs the Right Org Buy-In‬‭ 46:01 Growth & Product Titles Are the Key‬‭ 47:28 The Sales Enablement Side of SEO‬‭ 50:30 Content Strategy vs Keyword Volume Obsession‬‭ 51:40 The Non-Apocalypse of AI‬‭ 55:04 The Real AI Shift Will Be Gradual‬‭ 56:01 How to Actually Execute Product SEO‬‭ 59:49 Final Thoughts & Where to Follow Eli‬‭Show Links:‬Eli’s Newsletter:‬‭ https://www.productledseo.com/‬Eli’s Book on Amazon:‬‭ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091D572ZL‬Eli on LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze‬‭‭‭ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

‬Ross sits down with A.J. Ghergich, VP of Consulting Services at Botify, to unpack enterprise‬ SEO, AI governance, and why SEOs absolutely need a Bing strategy in 2025.‬‭ A.J. shares the story of how he landed the rare @SEO Twitter handle and what it’s meant for‬‭ his visibility in the industry. They dive into findings from Botify’s latest AI survey, highlighting‬ the disconnect between perceived AI readiness and real-world implementation challenges.‬‭From AI hallucinations and live retrieval limitations to crawl budgets and indexation at scale,‬ this conversation is packed with tactical insights. A.J. also drops a hot take on Bing,‬ explaining why it's now critical for AI visibility—especially in the age of ChatGPT and live‬ search integration.‬‭They also explore practical steps marketers can take to better control their brand‬ messaging in AI outputs, and why technical SEO still reigns supreme at the enterprise level.‬‭ Show Notes:‬‭ 00:00 – Intro & AJ’s @SEO Twitter Handle Story‬‭ 02:00 – The Early Twitter Beta and Getting the Handle‬‭ 04:00 – Value from the @SEO Handle & the Power of Network‬‭ 06:00 – Botify's AI Survey: 94% Claim AI Readiness?‬‭ 08:00 – What AI Readiness Really Looks Like‬‭ 10:00 – Why Governance is the Missing Piece‬‭ 13:00 – Content Hallucinations, Training Data, and eCommerce Pitfalls‬‭ 16:30 – Centralizing Brand Messaging for AI‬‭ 19:00 – Enterprise SEO: Hidden Challenges at Scale‬‭ 22:00 – Indexation Gaps in Enterprise Sites‬‭ 24:30 – Crawl Budget, Canonicals & Technical SEO Realities‬‭ 27:00 – Freshness & Product Page Recency = Revenue‬‭ 30:00 – AI Overviews, CTR Drops, and the Future of Search‬‭ 33:00 – Ghost Clicks & Attribution in an AI-Driven World‬‭ 36:00 – Preparing for Bot-to-Bot Web Traffic‬‭ 39:00 – Are You Ready for ChatGPT Traffic?‬‭ 41:00 – Why You‬‭ Need‬‭ a Bing Strategy in 2025‬‭ 43:00 – How to Push Content into Bing (and ChatGPT) with IndexNow‬‭ 44:30 – AJ’s Hot Take: Optimize for Humans‬‭ and‬‭ AIs‬‭ 45:00 – Where to Connect with AJ‬‭ Show Links:‬‭ AJ on Twitter:‬‭ https://twitter.com/SEO‬‭ Botify AI Survey:‬‭ https://www.botify.com/blog/marketing-leaders-want-to-meet-ai-search-head-on-new-surve‬y-results‬‭ How Many People Search on Google?:‬‭ https://sparktoro.com/blog/new-research-how-often-do-americans-search-google-which-se‬arch-verticals-do-they-use‬‭ IndexNow:‬‭ https://www.bing.com/indexnow‬ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Dr. Pete Meyers, a Marketing Scientist at Moz specializing in SEO, discusses the dynamic nature of search marketing and the shift from domain authority to brand authority. He dives into the rise of AI in SEO tools and how Moz is updating its strategies to keep pace. The conversation explores the challenges of measuring brand authority and the impact of brand recognition on search trends, illustrated through examples such as NVIDIA and OpenAI. Pete also highlights the evolving landscape of online engagement and the future of tracking Google's updates.

Ross sits down with Tim Soulo,‬‭ CMO of Ahrefs, to dive deep into content‬ ‭marketing, SEO, and Ahrefs’ evolving approach to growth. Tim shares insights on how Ahrefs‬ built its marketing team, the role of SEO in today’s digital landscape, and why they’re investing‬ in YouTube, LinkedIn, and thought leadership content.‬ ‭ They also discuss the challenges of enterprise marketing, the rise of social-first content, and the‬ impact of backlink trends on the SEO industry.‬ ‭ Show Notes:‬ ‭ 00:00 Intro – Meeting in Chiang Mai SEO‬ ‭ 00:53 Ahrefs’ Marketing Evolution‬ ‭ 06:06 SEO vs. Diversification in Marketing‬ ‭ 10:09 The Role of Technical SEO at Ahrefs‬ ‭ 12:57 LinkedIn & Social Media Strategy‬ ‭ 18:10 Scaling Content & Thought Leadership‬ ‭ 22:31 Going Upmarket: Enterprise Marketing at Ahrefs‬ ‭ 30:38 The Power of Events & Conferences‬ ‭ 32:22 Programmatic SEO & Directory Strategies‬ ‭ 40:31 Backlink Trends & The Changing Web‬ ‭ 46:55 The Future of Ahrefs Marketing‬ ‭ 48:24 Announcing Ahrefs Evolve – West Coast Conference‬ ‭ Show Links:‬ Ahrefs: Top Website:‬‭ https://ahrefs.com/websites‬ Ahrefs: Data & Studies:‬‭ https://ahrefs.com/blog/category/data-studies/‬ ‭Ahrefs YouTube:‬‭ https://www.youtube.com/c/AhrefsCom‬ Tim Soulo’s LinkedIn:‬‭ https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo‬Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Ross welcomes back Rand Fishkin, co-founder of SparkToro and longtime marketing thought leader, for a candid conversation about the evolution of search, audience research, and the shifting tides of digital marketing. Rand shares insights on why SEO’s golden age is behind us, why influence—not traffic—should be marketers’ primary focus, and how PR is making a major comeback. He also discusses SparkToro’s growth, lessons from launching an indie video game company, and why understanding audience behavior is more critical than ever. Show Notes: 00:00 Welcome Back, Rand! 01:10 Reflections on Lost and Founder 02:37 The importance of timing and market demand 06:48 Venture Capital and Market Trends 14:34 The Changing Reputation of SEO 19:27 AI, Search, and Zero-Click Results 28:58 Influence Over Traffic 38:46 How to Prioritize Marketing Channels 43:42 The Rise of Digital PR 49:51 The Future of Search and Content Show Links: SparkToro https://sparktoro.com/blog/traffic-is-down-revenue-is-up/ SparkTogether 2025 https://sparktoro.com/sparktogether Rand’s Blog “Traffic Is Down; Revenue Is… Up?" https://sparktoro.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

How do you build SEO strategies that mesh seamlessly with product teams? Ross Hudgens chats with Sharanya Srinivasan, Head of SEO, Product at Boatsetter, about combining strong user experience, savvy engineering partnerships, and growth-focused tactics. Learn how Sharanya’s approach to A/B testing, internal links, and UX research can help you unlock new levels of organic traffic, no matter how your team is structured.Show Notes:0:00 Background & Why Product Matters02:47 Landing in Product-Focused Roles07:43 Top of Funnel vs. Bottom of Funnel11:01 A Typical Day in a Product-Led SEO Role16:40 Technical vs. Product Manager SEO21:47 Should SEO Sit in Marketing or Product?26:32 UX & User Research Resources30:47 A/B Testing for Better User Journeys39:37 Tools & Tactics for SEO A/B TestingShow Links:NNGroupUserTesting.comSearchPilotSharanya on LinkedIn Apartments.com related linking exampleWirecutter “Mentioned above” example Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

In this episode of Content and Conversation, host Ross Hudgens sits down with Barry Schwartz, President of RustyBrick and a leading voice in SEO.Barry shares his insights into the latest Google algorithm updates, the future of search rankings, and how businesses can adapt their SEO strategies in 2025 and beyond. Tune in for expert analysis, actionable advice, and a clear  take on the state of search marketing.Show Notes:00:00 Introduction01:03 What’s the best story you have from a webmaster contacting you about their SEO situation?05:44 What’s the biggest ever news story you’ve had on SE Roundtable in terms of visits? Why?07:59 How do SEOs most use your website?14:11 What’s your take on the current state of SEO news given the acquisition of Search Engine Land by Semrush?18:37 What’s your take on what SEO looks like in five years?29:53 What is your philosophy of how people should treat Google updates?33:08 How do you edit your content today?Show Links:Search Engine Roundtable’s most popular article ever: https://www.seroundtable.com/boyfriend-spammed-12909.html21st anniversary post: https://www.seroundtable.com/21-years-old-38395.htmlAIO clickthrough data from Glenn Gabe: https://www.gsqi.com/marketing-blog/how-to-track-aio-performance-gsc-manual-action/Feedly RSS feeder: https://feedly.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

In this episode, Ross and guest Wil Reynolds, VP Innovation, SEER, discuss the future of search, AI-driven automation, and why organic social is becoming more important than ever. Wil shares bold insights on how agencies must adapt, the power of thought leadership over traditional content marketing, and the evolving landscape of SEO. Plus, they cover why collaboration beats competition in today’s digital world.Show Notes:00:00 Welcome Wil Reynolds, VP Innovation, SEER01:36 Collaboration Over Competition04:04 The Rise of Organic Social vs. Traditional SEO10:53 Content Marketing vs. Journalism15:17 AI, Automation & the Future of Marketing28:22 The Changing Role of Link Building38:14 The Urgency to Adapt: AI’s Impact on Agencies46:36 Final Thoughts & Where to Find Wil Show Links:Wil at Seer: https://www.seerinteractive.com/wil-reynoldsWill on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilreynolds/Wil on X: https://x.com/wilreynoldsWil on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wilreynolds Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing

Join Ross as he sits down with SEO expert Cyrus Shepard to explore why brand building has become essential in today’s search landscape. Cyrus shares what happened when he disavowed every inbound link on his site, why Google seems to reward authenticity over traditional SEO tactics, and how focusing on experience and trust can give you the edge in the ever‐changing SERPs.Show Notes:00:00 Welcome Cyrus and brand swag01:10 The Bold Move: Disavowing Every Inbound Link02:00 Aftermath: Results of the Disavow Experiment06:17 When the Disavow Tool Still Matters08:44 Contrarian Takes & Being ‘Right’ in SEO09:43 Why Google Wants Real People14:21 SERP History & Competitive Analysis20:00 Over‐Optimizing vs. Brand Building Show Links:Zyppy's Disavow Experiment  Tom Capper on Brand AuthorityAhref’s SERP history featureCyrus on Bluesky Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing