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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)Welcome back for episode 41 of Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. Our featured guests for this episode is Ivo Sokolov,, a data office division co-leader at one of the most profitable and best capitalized banks in Austria where he specializes in data engineering, regulatory tech and project governance Ivo joined Mitch to talk about how data engineering fits into today's accounting and finance function and it's emphasize the importance of proper controls over any data project. So what exactly is data engineering and why should accountants care? Let's jump into the conversation and have Ivo explain.  Ivo: (00:48)Engineering is a discipline that is, consists of parts of data center, acknowledged meaning databases. Then as an architecture, data structures extract, transform load processes and tooling on the one hand programming skills. On the other hand, self care architecture and and a bit of all new generation technical infrastructure knowledge. For example, cloud infrastructure, containerization, dev-ops and all of that combined, is sort of data-engineering.  Mitch: (01:25)And how exactly does data engineering fit into accounting and finance? Ivo: (01:32)The purpose of data engineering is to enable the organization to prepare data pipelines for, whatever analytical usage is may be required in the difference business functions. And finance is one of those functions providing the proper, the underlying data architecture that enables the finance function to quickly make sense of the data within the organization too quickly build and maintain data, pipelines for analysis and, and ETL processes and data science, including more, let's say more standard tasks like data cleaning and amortization, setting up batches, feeding them data into proper business intelligence tools, and preparing dashboards.  Mitch: (02:22)So now with all of this, how does data flow through an organization and for the finance function particularly impact something like forecasting or analyzing financials?  Ivo: (02:33)Using newer technologies in newer platforms, for example, Python and R, are tools that are usually employed nowadays, one can do predictions and forecasts on financial figures. For example, income statement, balance sheets, cashflow statements. And that can be done within the finance function, within the business division without requiring a specialized technique of the teams. Given that, you know, data engineering has prepared the data properly. The proper data pipelines ensures that finance has, depending on the news, the needs of the company, access to near time data or micro badge data, meaning finance does not work with data from the previous month or from the previous quarter. Having these, the underlying the data flows properly in the organization enables the forecasting and that is say for the financials to be much more timely.  Mitch: (03:30)So I know you mentioned a couple of the tools, but which tools and particular skills really would be most useful for finance professionals to kind of borrow from data engineering and assist with these analyses?  Ivo: (03:43)The tools are essentially around using modern of scripting languages such as Python or R. That also includes a lot of libraries with functions that are useful within finance for forecast for analysis. So a popular tool would be a set of source would be like the Jupiter, the Jupiter hub environment, Jupiter notebooks, finance professionals can simply log onto a browser from anything client and build their analysis in a, in a way quite similar to what, with Jupiter and Python or R. Similar to the manner in which you're a software developer, would you use the same tools to write software for other purposes. Other skills that are useful to borrow from data engineering are having whatever code one writes to do their analysis or their forecast or their models be put into, into version control. That way it can be, and used within the department that way people were structuring or going about solving a finance desk, the way that in software development, one would stop libraries with certain functions. For example, getting the proper customer segments or getting certain field there is that are used throughout. You know, one doesn't have to ride the same code three times and this is definitely, we see more and more of that in business departments and in finance  Mitch: (05:23)As these tools and skills are starting to become shared across an organization, essentially. How is the data that is the end result ultimately viewed differently across these functions? For example, finance versus it or even something like marketing.  Ivo: (05:40)Now the problem with a siloed data and every function having their own data warehouse or data to do their analysis. Looking at pretty much I'd say customer data in a finance looks at the customer and account from a different perspective that marketing was, but let's say 50%, 60% of the underlying selection of the data would be the same. And now if you've moved into a proper data architecture, you'd expect certain basic fields or basic definitions to be shared, to be put into version control. And that is different than the case there was before using the BI tools would imply publishing some of these dashboards on a server so that they can be shared throughout the organization so that they're not my Excel file sitting on a drive in my division. But also could be shared with marketing. It could be shared with IT if they have to add something or do something with it. So this goes into having a central aligned data architecture.  Mitch: (06:49)So with this data architecture and the version control that you referenced, I know data is pretty free flowing across organizations now, so who's responsibility is it then to make sure there's proper governance in place and governance projects that are set up with internal controls to monitor how this data is used and seen?  Ivo: (07:13)This really depends on the type of organization for certain organizations such as banks, there's a regulatory mandate, to do proper data governance and data aggregation capabilities across risk and finance. And data governance would imply that every individual owner of data within the organization is defined and then they would know when that data structure changes and continue to maintain it such that overall if you have a figure on your balance sheet and if you want to understand how that figure comes about, there's a very clear data lineage and that you know how to which steps and which data transformation steps or they engineering steps took place in order for the figures to be as they are, who is responsible for implementing that would differ. But we definitely see a lot of master data management or data governance initiatives and sometimes, depending on the state of the legacy systems of how new or how old the underlying data architectures their organization might need to rethink and initiate a strategic project in order to create the necessary there. The architecture for combining data from usually a really tens or or even hundreds of systems, operational systems. Where that piece of data source data originally resides. And usually ...

"Govern Your Bots!" by Loreal Jiles (Strategic Finance, January 1, 2020): https://sfmagazine.com/post-entry/january-2020-govern-your-bots/Links to learn RPA Development or other things about RPA Tools for Free UiPath: https://www.uipath.com/rpa/academy  (The name of the RPA tool is UiPath and this site is to UiPath Academy).Automation Anywhere: https://university.automationanywhere.com/ (The name of the RPA tool is Automation Anywhere and this site is to Automation Anywhere University)FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. This is your host, Adam Larson, and I'm happy to bring you episode number 40 of our series. Today's conversation is between my cohost Mitch and Loreal Jiles IMA's director of research for digital technology and finance transformation.  Their discussion revolves around RPA and the practicality of robots and accounting. So, let's transition over and hear what Loreal has to say.  Mitch: (00:31)We keep hearing so much about RPA, but I'd like to kind of start off on the right page here. Can you tell us exactly what is RPA?  Loreal: (00:45)Certainly. So RPA stands for robotic process automation, and my personal definition is RPA is a technology that enables a virtual robot or a bot, as we call them, more casually to emulate human interaction with computer applications to execute processes. And so in planar terms, what that really means is the bot mimics the clicks and the keystrokes of humans to perform a process on a computer. It can navigate through desktop or web based applications, and it can do all of that simply by accessing what's called the user interface or the UI. And the user interface is the part of an application that all of us as humans see and interact with. There is another part of each application that's in the back end and that's where traditional computer science majors or programmers access that to right code to either modify the application or to automate things that way. Right? Historically, the only way to automate things was to access the backend of the application. What RPA does is it allows us to do things, things that historically businesses, professionals or non it professionals would not be able to do because now without having to access the back end of the application where there's admittedly a bit more risk, we simply record the keystrokes but clicks the type, of the human throughout the process and allowed the robot to replicate those steps. After we've documented it in sequential format in the required, I'd say the required format that's necessary. So what's really cool with it, I think is as opposed to going in the back end again, the automation happens right in the front of the screen. And in some instances you can even watch the robot perform your process. Um, so RPA for me is the easiest way to automate processes for non it professionals.  Mitch: (02:42)So you just said it right there. non-IT in our audiences, finance and accounting. So how real is RPA in finance and accounting? What are some of the typical uses that you've come across?  Loreal: (02:52)Oh, I think it's incredibly real. I'd say first off, it's, it's very real across many. And so McKinsey published a study just a few months ago highlighting RPA offers potential ROI of 30 to 200%, and in fairness with the right selection principles for a process, those projections aren't incredibly conservative. I start there because nearly all enterprises who have begun RPA journeys regardless of their industry, they started in the finance and accounting department. And so that means that the thousands of companies that are using RPA today, over 70% of them started in finance and accounting. And that's incredibly powerful because it says to us as finance and accounting professionals, how do we want to be impacted by the technology? Do we want to be the recipients of it, if you will, or to be on the front end. And my encouragement to finance and accounting professionals is to consider being on the front end of it. The other thing I think I'll highlight is, although it's tempting to say, um, we're not developing bots or are developing robots themselves or actually developing processes that robots will perform. And the only thing we have to do to do that is effectively to tell the robot what steps to take. Yeah. Who knows those steps better than the people that actually perform them. Yeah. So my mantra is more can we have finance and accounting professionals developing these processes as opposed to solely it professionals. That doesn't mean everyone will be converted to a developer, but you could play a critical role in either process requirements gathering in, in exploring what's needed to be able to facilitate or progressed the implementation, if you will. And so I think in that space, we're seeing something where every company, or just about every company that starting RPA journeys is starting in finance and accounting. Our processes lend themselves a bit more. It's a automation because of the cyclical nature because some of them are routine just by nature of what we're doing for month end close or quarter end close for example. And so I think in the spirit of that we as a profession will see a ton of this, for those of us who haven't already been exposed to it, significantly,  Mitch: (05:10)Well, in my own personal research trying to learn about RPA and how finance really fits in, I came across democratization of RPA and quite honestly, I'm hoping you can give us a little better definition than what I read online.  Loreal: (05:23)Oh, certainly. Yeah. So democratization of RPA is a phrase that summarizes the concept of a bot for every employee and some people go so far as to see a bot for every human. I'm not trying to go that far, but the concept of a bot for every employee means that if I sit in any corporate setting, despite the company, just like I have a laptop and it's automatic, that when I start working for that company, they will give me a laptop. And that laptop will have Microsoft office suite when it, for example, there's an by some people or envision that I will also have a bot on my laptop as well and I'll have software that allows me to automate some of my processes on demand and in real time. And my robot that sits on my laptop will effectively become my personal assistant in that world. I think we've, we've got a little wait before we can get there. So would I ask myself if I truly believe in democratization of RPA? Yes. I think it's a far off, but in fairness, no one thought we would have a laptop when every desk, just a few short decades ago, no one thought we'd have effectively a computer in the palm of our hands or in our back pockets. And so what I think we have to do before we can truly realize something like democratization of RPA is that the technologies themselves, the software vendors, we'll have to continue to progress the user friendly nature of their tools. There are a couple of tools that are more user friendly than others. And there's a recent Forrester report that was published earlier this quarter that tells us who the leading RPA players are. And I think the top three that they've highlighted are ...

IMA's website: https://www.imanet.org/IMA's Leadership Academy: https://www.imanet.org/career-resources/leadership-academyMentoring with IMA: https://mynetwork.imanet.org/mentoring/mentoringFULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:00)Welcome back to count me in. IMA's a podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host Mitch Roshong with me is my co host Adam Larson and we are happy to bring you episode 39 of our podcast series. Most management accountants can relate to the benefits of having a mentor. So to kick off the new year, we have an episode dedicated to mentoring.  Adam: (00:28)To start us off, we're going to hear from Olya, manager of financial planning and analysis at United rentals in Stanford, Connecticut. She is going to talk us through the benefits of mentoring for a mentee for the mentor and how to develop a mentoring relationship. Also, during this episode we're going to jump to a couple of personal stories from different finance individuals who have realized the benefit of having a mentor. So without further ado, let's listen to our conversation on mentoring.  Mitch: (00:55)In your opinion, what are the benefits of mentoring?  Olya: (01:04)In the recent years, so much has been said and written about the benefits of mentoring from both the mentee and mentor. Not surprisingly, mentoring has become increasingly popular among successful organizations. In fact more than 70% of fortune 500 companies use mentoring to attract, develop and retain talent as well as increase productivity and that they interest in. The fact is that mentoring has also been credited with helping entire organizations cultivate the culture of innovation and inclusion.  Adam: (01:38)How so? What are the overall benefits of a mentoring relationship say for the mentee first?  Olya: (01:43)There are numerous benefits that mentoring provides for the mentee. Whether you even start by working with the mentor, the mentee receives personalized education that is tailored to their specific needs. Who would then throw on that? For example, when I was initially looking for a mentor, well I wanted was to find someone who could help me improve my public speaking skills. I'd lay the land my needs, you will. Beyond that, my mentor and I developed the new plan. The next benefit is that mentors also provide mentees with the advice and guidance they need to help them define and set realistic career goals as well as develop strategies on how to achieve them. They also hold them accountable for the results, which I believe is the key to success  Adam: (02:34)And as a mentee, how important is it to select the right mentor to reap these benefits?  Olya: (02:41)The right mentor will encourage you to take calculated risks which ultimately increases both your leadership capabilities and opportunities for advancement. At the same time, they could also save you from making mistakes that could set your career back. When I was looking for a way to enhance my leadership skills so I could prepare myself for the next role. My mentor suggested that they joined the board of a nonprofit organization. I followed his advice and after receiving my CMA certificate nation, I got involved with my local IMA chapter. There I gained valuable experiences and skills mutually the arm I was able to apply at work.  Mitch: (03:28)To reinforce all your summary of the benefits for a mentee in a mentoring relationship. We are now going to hear from Anthony Sperduti, manager of financial planning and analysis at United rentals as he shares a story about the impact mentoring had on him in his career.  Anthony: (03:42)Early in my career I faced a difficult situation and that's when I learned the benefits of having a mentor. When I was a second year staff at the CPA firm I used to work for, I made a pretty significant error on one of our audit procedures. We had just finished field work and the error would require going back out to the client and re-performing the audit test. I can remember the unsettling feeling of having to go to the principal on the account worrying how he would take it instead of chastising me or yelling at me over it. He told me, as long as you worked for me, it'll never be your fault. I reviewed the work too. We both missed it. That was a really important lesson for me. Mistakes happen, but instead of making me feel worse about it, the principal helped me learn from the experience, understand how the mistake happened, fix it and re instill the confidence I needed to tackle my next job. From that moment on, I sought this person's guidance throughout my career and still do to this day. Despite no longer working together, I attribute much of the success I've had professionally does mentorship and hope to emulate the impact he had on me to other young professionals to help them advance in their careers.  Adam: (04:57)So before we transition over to the mentor side, do you have any other comments on the benefits of mentoring for a mentee?  Olya: (05:06)This podcast is not long enough to list all benefits for the mentees. I could go on and on, but if I reflect on my personal experience, I think the most valuable benefit of mentoring is that it provides a positive, but at the same time challenge and the growth environment with mentee can improve their skills and build confidence necessary for their future success.  Mitch: (05:31)Okay. So now in your opinion, what are the benefits of a mentor and relationship for the mentor?  Olya: (05:37)That's a really good question because I think the benefits for the mentor are often overlooked. A common misperception is that the mentee is the primary and sometimes the only beneficiary from the mentoring relationship, which is not necessarily true. I read and heard multiple testimonials when mentors side just how rewarding their mentoring experience has been and how much satisfaction they received when they give back to their organization and the profession they love. They also highlight that helping others grow and develop by sharing their knowledge, insights and expertise has made them by their leaders as well which in turn enhance their but you need just for advancement by being the mentor. They also earn the respect from their colleagues and prestige at their organizations. It's not a secret that the leaders who can develop other leaders are highly valued and sought after and that the benefit that I'd like to pinpoint is that mentors can also learn from them into use so they can stay current with the most recent trends. That's why the concept of reverse mentoring has been gaining popularity when younger employees appear this season. Executives usually to teach them about new technologies and products. As you can see, there is something in mentoring for everyone.  Adam: (07:04)We are now going to turn our attention to Tatyana Corban, CPA and...

Steve's Articles:https://sfmagazine.com/post-entry/november-2018-business-transformation-no-pain-no-gain/https://sfmagazine.com/post-entry/october-2018-catalyst-for-change/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)Hey everyone, this is Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson and I'd like to welcome you back to another episode filled with valuable insight from an industry leader. Steve McNally is a CFO, board director and thought leader who joined Mitch to talk about business transformations. While business transformations may not be new to accounting and finance, Steve provides practical steps, best practices for setting up implementing and completely successful transformations for your organization. Keep listening as we're going to head over to their conversation now.  Mitch: (00:40)How do you define business transformation?  Steve: (00:50)Typically based on my experience, transformations are big, complex, expensive, time consuming and at least theoretically you hope so to have a significant positive impact because simply I believe transformations are all about trying to change the way you do business with on a global enterprise wide scale well on one is more limited  Mitch: (01:14)And what is the current nature of business transformations. Steve: (01:19)In terms of current nature? My first remark is transformations have been around for a long time. Maybe the word itself is used a whole lot more, but transformations had been around for quite a while. One of the most typical examples of transformations would be ERP and or software implementations. For example, SAP. I know that's one of the big ones I did in my career. That's it. Other kinds of transformations include keeping up with regulations, whether you know, a couple of years back, Sarbanes-Oxley more recently from a finance accounting perspective, the revenue recognition standards, the lease standards, other gap changes under other regulations and these kind of regulation changes really force in some cases a company wide change in how they do business. Other typical transformations would include, for example, in house versus outsourced services type decisions, uh, within finance and accounting. For example, decisions around, you know, typical plant finance and accounting responsibilities. Should they be done in house or is it more efficient, more effective to outsource and offshore them and in some cases, is it more efficient and effective to bring them back in house. Another kind of transformation occurs when there's been a major change in key leadership. Whether your CEO, your CFO, other personnel changes, like head of a division anytime there's a significant personnel change, it's going to change not just that person and that team, but it'll have ripple effects throughout the organization. Also, there could be outright end to end process changes within a company organization. For example, a services company that does engineering work for others might be rethinking this project process flow, trying to optimize that activity. And that really will affect all the different individuals in the company. All the different functions and partners within that company. Another type of transformation would be M and a mergers and acquisitions, whether you're on the acquisition end or you're the company being acquired, but when there's a merger of these two different companies and cultures, it's going to be a significant transformation. And lastly, one thing that drives transformations is keeping up with growth. If you're a small startup and things are going really, really well, you're going to have to keep up with that from a personnel perspective and manufacturing perspective, a process and policy and procedure perspective, a financing perspective. So all these are different things that could drive a typical transformation or need for transformation.  Mitch: (04:05)So in your opinion, from the different reasons that businesses have gone through business transformations, can you explain some of the best practices that you've seen for setting up and initiating the overall transformation?  Steve: (04:18)Sure. I think there's really three, three key best practices or three things that feed into that. First of all, you really need a compelling business needs. So what is the problem you're trying to solve? What are the underlying root causes? Are you trying to overcome the tough competitive environment and you delay investments for a number of years and now you need to catch up or the new regulatory requirements. So what is that compelling business need to initiate this transformation? And of course the transformation requires significant investment in time and the resource people and money. So you want to be sure it's the right thing to do. The second thing is your case for change. So you as the leader, you may have the vision, you may know that you need to make a change within your company, within your organization. However, you're not going to get there alone. You need a core team that's going to work with you and you know, day to day make this transformation happen. And then you need other champions who are going to be out there, the key stakeholders to buy in and to support the initiative that you're focused on. But you need to create this case for change to make sure that you win the hearts and minds of all these individuals who are going to make the industry initiative. They'll make the transformation a success. And then the third thing, the third best practice I would say is project plan. So in general, a project plan really helps you articulate what you're trying to do. Gain alignment at all levels within the organization and alignment on project scope, on milestones and timelines on the budgets. So overall, make sure that you have clear line of sight of what you're trying to devote to deliver and how you're going to deliver it. That's it. A solid plan. It's all a project plan to be highly motivational. It can help you celebrate the milestones as you're going along and it can also help you quickly identify if you're going off track. That's what a good solid project plan will do for you. But you also do need to be flexible. So a project plan, in my opinion, the project plan that you've managed centrally. Depending on how big, how complex your initiative is, the core project plan should be, the highlights should be the big picture of what you're trying to accomplish. And then there's various sub teams and those sub teams should really manage their own details. And the other way that a project plan should be flexible, especially if you're dealing with a project that could last, I don't know, 1212 months or more, even two or three years. In that case, you're not going to detail out the plan from start to finish. But rather I would suggest you should detail out the plan for the first, is it three, six, nine months, but have milestones along the way and go no go points along the way. And as you approach a note, well at that point then you detail out the next phase in the next phase. So a project plan can be really helpful and insightful, but you also need to be flexible with it.  Mitch: (07:42)Now I know a project plan typically incorporates a lot...

IMA: https://www.imanet.org/CMA: https://www.imanet.org/cma-certificationExam Changes: https://www.imanet.org/cma-certification/getting-started/cma-2020-exam-changesFULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Welcome back for another bonus episode here on Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. A major consideration for accounting and finance professionals today is certification and continuing education related to their jobs and responsibilities. And this installment of our IMA focused mini-series within Count Me In, we are going to hear Adam speak with Dennis Whitney. I am a senior vice president of certifications about the CMA, the exam, it's upcoming changes in 2020 and how the certification compliments different job roles. Let's listen now and hear how Dennis and the CMA are preparing our accountants for the future of the profession.  Adam: (00:43)Well to start off, can you please explain your role here at IMA?  Dennis: (00:51)Yeah, sure. Well I've been here now for 25 years. I love IMA. And my role as a senior vice president of certifications is the manage the CMA program and the CSCA program, both the development of the program, the administration of the program, and also the business development, the growth of the program, strategic planning, and related subjects. So a lot of, there's a lot of talk in the industry about certifications. And the first question that probably comes to people's mind is what's the difference between a CMA and a CPA? That's a great question and I get it all the time. And both the CMA and the CPA of course are great certifications and they have a very specific purpose. In my mind, the CPA is geared towards orders and tax specialists. So if you want to go into public accounting, by all means I recommend that you get a CPA. But if you want to work inside an organization, for example, as a CFO, as a controller, as a senior financial accountant or senior management accountant, then by all means I recommend the CMA. And in fact, what a lot of people do is they have dual certification. So they get a certified in both the CPA and the CMA. But again, the CPA is geared toward the auditor's, the professional accountants who are looking, there are outside the organization and they're attesting to the accuracy of the financial statements and also those who are tax specialists doing tax returns. Whereas the CMA's work inside the organizations creating value for the organization through planning, budgeting, preparing the financial statements, decision analysis and related.  Adam: (02:37)So you've covered a bit, you know, about what type of roles are the type of people and the jobs that people cover who are get CMAs, but what's included in the CMA exam?  Dennis: (02:48)Well, the CMA exam is a two part exam. Each part is four hours long with a hundred multiple choice questions and two essays. The content, for part one is a external financial reporting, planning, budgeting and forecasting is the second domain, cost management, performance management and internal controls. And then beginning in 2020, we're going to have a new section, a new content domain called technology and analytics. So that's part one. And part two we cover more of the financial management. So we have financial statement analysis, corporate financial management, decision analysis, risk management, investment decisions, and professional ethics.  Adam: (03:39)So, you know, those are great topics that are valuable to any accountant, you know, who's in the industry. But what's the overall value that the CMA credential brings to an individual?  Dennis: (03:49)Well, it's interesting that when I talk to people about, accounting, careers in general and certifications and degrees from those who have a CMA, I always hear very interesting comment. They say, you know, my degree was great, my CPA was great, but what I use every day on the job is what I learned on the CMA exam, studying for the CMA exam, planning, analysis, decision support, risk management. Those are the things that accountants do every day when you work inside an organization. So, the focus is again, having that critical thinking, analytical mindset. And as I said, with the new exam, we're going to get into data analytics more in technology. So, the focus on the CMA exam is exactly what accountants and finance teams need to do in order to help their companies grow.  Adam: (04:48)So you've mentioned this 2020 exam. How are you adapting to the changing role of the management accountant?  Dennis: (04:54)Yeah, so what we do is every four to six years, we do a job analysis study. So we survey all the management accountants, well as many as we can anyway in the world. And we asked them what do they do on the job, what are their tasks? And then we say, what do you need to know in order to do your job efficiently and effectively? So this is a pretty long survey. It's almost takes an hour, almost an hour to complete. So, we really appreciate everyone who completes these surveys. It's really showing a commitment to the profession. So based on that survey, we look at the content of our exam and we say, what are we testing now that really we should not emphasize as much or what are some, what's some new material that we should be emphasizing more? So, in the recent survey, the two subjects that came up is needing more of a focus on the CMA exam is technology and data analytics. Now we do test stat analytics to a certain extent on the exam now, but with the new change, we're going to have a much bigger focus on data analytics. The other change, which is interesting is we're going to be testing ethics more than we're testing now. We do test that takes quite a bit now, but we figured, based on the feedback that we got that we really should be even more general in how we test business ethics. So instead of just focusing on IMA statement of ethical professional practice, we're going to be testing on business ethics in general, including moral philosophies and the fraud triangle and other subject items like that. Adam: (06:40)So are there any common misconceptions that you hear about the CMA exam?  Dennis: (06:45)Yeah, I think the most frequent one I hear is that the CMA is all about cost accounting and that definitely is a misconception. Now we do, we did have our Genesis in the cost accounting profession back in 1919 when they met up in Buffalo and created what's the IMA now it was really about cost accounting and cost management, but the profession has changed so much and it's broadened. Management accountant has broadened, broadened so much that really the focus now is on cost accounting. Yes, that's, but that's a small part of the exam. It's really about planning. Risk management analysis analysis I think is probably the biggest key. And having that analytical mind is something that CFOs want to have. They want to have people like that on their team. So it's not just, you know, counting the numbers, doing the bookkeeping, so to speak. But it's helping companie...

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTMitch: (00:05)Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host Mitch Roshong and this is IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. For today's episode, we're going to take a look at the education that is impacted by our changing industry. As we hear Adam talk with Luke Harris, associate at PWC as he explains his recent accounting studies and the experiences he's found most helpful in entering the profession. Let's listen to their conversation now.  Adam: (00:37)So I understand you studied international accounting and logistics globally. Can you tell us a little bit about where you studied and what the most interesting aspects were of accounting in each country?  Luke: (00:47)So I first studied internationally in France as part of a one semester exchange program. I was based out of Rin just about two hours by train outside of Paris. And this afforded an abundance of opportunities both personally and academically. Knowing that there were international standards that varied from the generally accepted accounting principles, views in the United States. I was really interesting to me going into it. But after taking a variety of classes, I actually noticed how similar the two sets of standards really are and how much they're converging with recent standards updates. For instance, the revenue recognition standards and the least standard, both of these making gap more principles based to align with Ivers, which has historically been more principles based. I noticed that with logistics. I believe that my greatest aha moment was realizing no matter how small of a business you going to be are if not directly connected to the global network of trade. You are more than likely just only once removed from multinational firm, whether upstream from a supplier or downstream through or consumer of your product or service. And that was really big for me, realizing that there's really no way to avoid the global effects of currency fluctuation, cyber risks, sustainability and economic and political environments, which of course necessitates a many ways in which we can hedge those risks, which I find really interesting. I later studied logistics and Chile, which was remarkable physically speaking, just seeing the port in Valparaiso, the only major port in the whole country was incredible, but then learning the political and economic past and the influence that the U S and other countries have had in affecting their economic system was just amazing.  Adam: (02:32)So I've read you've done some research in cyber warfare. How have you been able to connect your international business studies to what you've learned about cybersecurity needs?  Luke: (02:43)Good question. My main takeaway from my research and studies is that this is an area anyone working on any sort of network I should feel competent with. And I mean anything. If you check your emails, convinced an online ordering, utilize any cloud computing, this is something you need to be familiar with. And somehow we think as the cloud gets more pervasive, it gets safer, right? As it gets larger, it gets safer as if there is a security in numbers that somehow more users make it safer. But when you think about it, that rationale is flawed. When I am using, say, Amazon web services, whether directly or indirectly through my school or work, I am opening myself up to a field of over 1 million users. And of course I'm relying on both the provider and servicer for adequate separation controls. And, uh, let's say if modern ground transportation, puts the country at our fingertips, it's the online web and cloud computing that have put the world at our fingertips. Now, the unfortunate side to this, the other side of this is that it has put us in our organizations within reach of bad cyber actors across the world, right? So that can be really intimidating knowing that really any bad cyber actor from around the world could potentially access my data if it's not properly secured. Your complication with mini servicers can also cause problems with cyber warfare specifically? I was shocked to find the ability and motivation by many nation States, uh, to disrupt multinational corporations. And if you look at the major cyber attacks happening in the past few years, many perpetrators were in nation States. But at the same time, it's almost as if many MNCs have placed the concept into sort of a buzzword box and not fully grasp the gravity of the issue at hand. Secondly, if studying cybersecurity, I believe it is very important to not limit your research to your country of business even if you don't have international dealing because you again are more than likely just once removed from an a multinational corporation and you do have international exposure if you are on any sort of public network.  Adam: (04:52)So how have your various volunteer activities benefited your career.  Luke (04:58)As an individual, studying and working in accounting, I tend to get very focused into one particular area of interest at a time and I feel voluntarily volunteering and I think volunteering has really helped me in this area and it's helped me realize my place in the world as a human characteristic. We share with the over 7 billion of us on this planet. So even though I may be an accountant or a student, and those roles come with particular obligations of ethical behavior, technical competencies and academic orientation. But more than that, I'm an individual capable of having a positive impact on my society in a volunteer capacity, developing mentor, mentee relationships or volunteering with the nonprofits such as professional organizations, your house of worship or your local food bank, or always you can contribute to your community. Just find something you're passionate about and get out there to help as you can. And I think the natural byproduct of this behavior is realizing every activity you engage in, whether in the workplace or without the workplace impacts a variety of people, people you know, and people you may have never met. Consequently, the more you feel connected with those people is a crucial understanding to working within organizations and on teams. And that really touches on a second aspect of volunteering, which is developing empathy in the traditional sense. When volunteering, you are serving a group of people distinctly different than that, which would be representative clients and you're doing a service without monetary compensation. Inherently, this behavior opens up your field of exposure to new people and their lived experiences allowing you to understand new cultures and behaviors of people. It really fosters a profound and pathic understanding a skill, no doubt, beneficial to nurturing personal relationships, but also a skill absolutely required in the world of business. We're understanding of consumer's greatest need is paramount for success.  Adam: (06:50)Just from personal experience, I've found that volunteering not only, you know, helps me in all the ways that you've mentioned, but also just on a personal level, you recognized how much value was in the time that you give to whatever you're volunteering for and you just in some ways just feel better as a person.  Luke: (07:09)Absolutely. Yeah, there kind of comes with that, like a nonphysical, maybe psychosocial, I don't know, application. Yeah.  Adam: (07:20)

WBCSD resources:WBCSD COSO Applying Enterprise Risk Management to Environmental, Social and Governance-related Risks Guidance on improving the quality of ESG infoEnhancing the credibility of non-financial information: the investor perspectiveHow to respond to assurance needs on non-financial informationIMA resources:https://www.imanet.org/insights-and-trends/external-reporting-and-disclosure-management/coso-framework-and-sustainabilityhttps://www.cpajournal.com/2019/07/29/the-coso-internal-control-framework-and-sustainability-reporting/https://www.imanet.org/insights-and-trends/external-reporting-and-disclosure-management/sustainability-cfo-the-cfo-of-the-futurehttps://blogs.thomsonreuters.com/sustainability/2018/08/09/executive-perspective-the-reasonable-millennial-investor/Contact our guests:Shari Littan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/shari-littan-58bb40114/Mario Abela - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mario-abela-75a95957/FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)Hello again and welcome back to Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. We have a unique episode for you today as both Mitch and I facilitated a conversation with two guests to provide multiple perspectives on the topic of sustainability. We spoke with Shari Litton, IMA's manager of corporate reporting and technical activities and Mario Abela, a director for redefining value at the world business council for sustainable development. Let's head over to the in depth conversation held about topics relating to sustainability such as ESG and integrated reporting.  Mitch: (00:36)There have been many articles and publications for guidance on sustainability. So to start things off, what is sustainability and why are organizations so concerned about it?  Mario: (00:53)Thanks. There are many definitions of sustainability from the very narrow, it's just about the environment through to the inter-generational legacy that we leave for future generations to be able to kind of enjoy the same, lifestyles and the same resources that we've been at today. So the term doesn't really have any fixed meaning and it continues to evolve at the WBCSD when we talk about sustainability, we really looking at the sustainability of the business model. Can the business continue to operate as it's currently doing? Can it sustain those operations into the future?  Shari: (01:47)No, I just want to recall that for me, when I first became fascinated by what we'll call accounting for sustainability or sustainability or integrated reporting. I always recall my reaction to the first photos that the astronauts sent back. One of the famous photos is called Earthrise and you can actually see the earth rising from the surface of the moon. And many people say that the modern environmental movement started with that photo because all of humanity reflected back on what a small planet that we have. And to me, coming with an accounting background, I think of one of the primary goals of why we have accounting to begin with, which is we have limited resources. And that picture coming back is a stark reminder that limb resources here on earth are limited. So we have to be a little bit broader or maybe evolve what account for how we're using those resources. How are we all allocating our precious resources, what are we doing with them? So for me, that one photo ties back to accounting. And when I am thinking about sustainability and business, for me personally, that's where I come.  Adam: (03:23)So then what kind of relevant data is available for sustainability and how are businesses reporting this information? In other words, what is the current challenge?  Mario: (03:33)The problem is that the, the relevant data is a really good so there's been a number of surveys done by the CFA Institute and other investor bodies that have demonstrated that there is actually no shortage of data and to some extent information, but that information is not particularly relevant to the sorts of decisions that investors and other stakeholders need to make. So if a board would ask management about the reliability, a lot of sustainability metrics reported today a lot of CEOs would struggle to really put their hand on their heart and commit to the credibility of the data. And in fact, PWC in its CEO survey looked at what are the sort of key decisions that CEOs, Nate, about their company, what sort of information are they getting and to what extent do I have confidence in that information? And for a number of data points where these things are absolutely critical to the business and its value creation, in fact, they either don't get very data or the data that I get I have very little confidence in and we have to remember that a lot of this data is not subject internal assurance. So often it's not, there are reviews done by internal audit and it's also not subject to external verification either. And, and the other point is that companies now report as you know in many different through many different channels. So the 10K is just one form of reporting that companies report, you know, every minute through social media.and then there are news outlets and others who are also providing information about companies. And we did some work last year where we went around the world and, and spoke to investors about ESG information. And one of the things that I told us was that at the moment, because there's the lack of standards or at least a single standard because there are, many frameworks, many standards of sorts of we've identified at the WBCSD. In fact, we have countered at least 200 frameworks with over 5,000 indicators. The problem for investors is comparability. They've, they've got no idea how to compare one number against another number because the basis upon which those numbers are calculated are often very different. And so what happens in practice is that companies use a mix of measures from existing frameworks and then often adapt them to their own requirements. So we have the entities spe...

Contact Keith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithlewiscma/Keith's website: https://www.keithericlewis.comFULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Adam: (00:05)Welcome back to Count Me In, IMA’s podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I am your host, Adam Larson, and this is episode 35 of our series. In a moment you will hear Keith Lewis, management accountant and an international speaker share his big picture thoughts on how individuals can utilize best practices and develop the skills needed to set them apart when looking to build their own brand in today's competitive accounting market. Keep listening now for more details in his full conversation with me.  Mitch: (00:39)What steps does one need to take in order to really quantify their skills on a resume?  Keith: (00:45)Well, Mitch that's a great question and one of the things that you need to focus on is three key things that you want to focus on is how many, how often, and how much, how many people have you interacted with? Did they span across different business units on a horizontal level? Did you go up to the higher ups, the C level executives on a vertical basis, and how many individuals were you able to touch in terms of your reach within your position? The second key thing that you want to focus on is how it walked in. Was this a daily task or the weekly, monthly Semi-annually, or annually and then finally how much, how much were you able to save the company or make the company by the process that you were taken in order to get results driven action? How I take it back to an experience that I had and a couple of the positions that I've worked in, I created standard operating procedures, which is also known as SOPs. These things were put in place for our new hires and assisted with the in the onboarding process. This save time during the time that they were being on onboarding and it helped the employees to be come more productive sooner than normal.  Mitch: (02:08)So what strategy goes into how you want to be perceived by the employers once you're able to quantify this on your resume?  Keith: (02:17)Another great question. The dots for your brand will be connected via the combination of your resume and your social media platforms. Somebody has checked your platform, your LinkedIn, your GlassDoor to see the connections that you have and how is it aligned to the resume that you're presenting. You need to stop viewing yourself as a company of one. You're here to provide a service for a company either via W2, 1099, or direct B2B if you're a business owner. Finally, you are a sales consultant and the best product that you have and everybody wants is you. You just need to know how to actually quantify your skills, know what your value proposition and presented to the individuals.  Mitch: (03:04)That's a great point. And now once you're able to quantify your skills and you kind of have this perception that you're looking to display, what is the best way for you to utilize something like LinkedIn when it comes to building your brand and further establishing who you are?  Keith: (03:26)I like to use LinkedIn as my canvas. I remember at one point in order to reach out to the decision makers within a company, you have to cold call the company, act as if you weren't who you were in order to get a contact. Just to be able to reach out to him. Put your best foot forward. Now you have tools like LinkedIn where you're able to wait the decision makers within the company that you may want to go to or get interesting information from companies that you've seen information about. I think that this is very important that you have a consistent message on your LinkedIn that is really cohesive to what you are representing on your resume. You want to create posts that helpful that to provide insights to individuals and give them actionable items that can better their situation no matter what position they're in currently. Mitch: (04:23)How can we further differentiate ourselves from all of the other applications though? What's another tip that I could do to separate myself from others during the interview process?  Keith: (04:36)Well, this is a great thing and I'm a true believer that one of the best ways to separate yourself, there's a thank you card. I've been able to position myself in a lot of great opportunities based off the fact that I did a thank you card. It seems to be very rare, but the one thing that people don't take into consideration is that when you're asking the questions at the end that every interviewer asked you if you have, you have two purposes. One is to further build that common ground, which with whoever you're interviewing during that time and two, you want to provide the basis for your thank you cards. So when I crossed my handwritten thank you cards, I specifically make an effort not to discuss the position at all. All I want to do is thank them for the opportunity that they'd provided and taking the time out to actually meet with me. I focus on common ground building items during the interview instead. An example of that is one of the thank you caused that I've crafted during one of the interviews at a company I interview for, I found out that they had young children through my questioning and I mentioned to them that there was a guy that was based out of Philadelphia named grandpa bubbles that hosts different free events in the parks in the surrounding area. Now totally it was something that she may be interested in and even provided the website for. She really appreciated that because it wasn't about, the interview wasn't about the position. It was really about just building that genuine connection and that's what you're able to do through a thank you card.  Mitch: (06:13)Just as a quick follow-up to that question, what is the benefit of a handwritten thank you card as opposed to, you know, the more traditional email today?  Keith: (06:25)Well, I think that a handwritten thank you card, it shows the efforts. It's very easy to go online and just write some type of email that you send out to somebody. It seems very generic and is not very personable. I feel that the handwritten, especially if you're doing a handwritten thank you card, it shows the time and the effort and the genuine interest of this person to actually want to reach out to you and thanks. Good.  Mitch: (06:53)I think that's a great piece of advice and you've been able to share some of your personal experiences. So I'm just kind of curious, what do you think has been the number one marketing tool that you've been able to use when approaching other companies?  Keith: (07:08)I think that's also another excellent question. I think that there's a number of things that I've used and been able to do that helped me and my upward mobility within the different companies that I worked for. I would say obtaining the CMA certification has probably been the number one marketing tool that I've had up til this point in my career. Expertise and understanding that I have been able to gain from the breath is knowledge that's contain...

Brian Kush: https://www.intend2lead.com/brian-kush/ Top 10 Books for Accountants: https://www.intend2lead.com/top-ten-books/ Intend2Lead: www.intend2lead.com FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:00)This is episode 34 of Count me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I'd like to welcome you back for another great perspective on the skills needed to succeed in today's accounting industry. For this episode, Mitch spoke to Brian Kush and executive leadership coach and the co-founder of intend to lead. Brian explains the importance of strong leadership and personal development when trying to create a sustainable accounting career. Let's go to the conversation to hear more.  Mitch: (00:36)One of the central competencies for our accounting and finance audience revolves around leadership. What natural leadership and coaching skills do accountants commonly possess? And tell us a little bit about what you do to support that skill set.  Brian: (00:58)Right, Mitch? So I always think of maybe an overused term in our industry, in the accounting industry is the idea of adding value. however, I feel like accountants are really good at that. I feel like they bring a value added mindset to everything that they do. And so some of the natural leadership qualities that they possess or that I find in a lot of accountants are, they're very good and open about sharing with each other and learning from each other, different in newer ways on how did you do things, you know, it might even just be, Hey here, allergy and, you know, here's what our firm or here's what our organization does. And, and, and being very good about sharing it with others, you know, and trying to learn from each other, whether it's you're in public accounting or if you're an internal audit shop, it's like how can we learn from other entities that are out there and really having that learning mindset in a way where they're sharing well with each other there. They're building upon each other. In some cases. It's brainstorming. I've done a lot of facilitated facilitated work or I've been here, well work with accounts even at different companies or firms. And it's just amazing and it's inspiring to me how well they are, are good. They are an open that they are about sharing new ideas and ways to improve and just really supporting each other in that way. So it's cool for me to be able to see that. I think that's something that accountants naturally do. I think accountants are also very good goal setters. You know, we have to be, and a lot of the, the work that we do, we have to set milestones. So how many of the projects that we're tasked with doing are not easy. They are complex and you have to set multiple milestones. So accounts are good at that when they're somewhat forced to do that and intend to lead. We're, you know, we're a leadership development company and we do a lot of coaching with, with accountants and one of the things we like to do is we like to really work off of that off of the idea of the learning mindset. How can you uncover, you know, what's really important you, how can you learn from each other? And coaching is really about helping someone to learn more about themselves and to move their acts just forward in their life. And so we like to tap into their learning mindset. And figuring out ways that they can progress in it, they can improve. And we like to also tap into that goal setting mindset where it's like, Hey, where do you want to go in your life? What's important to you? And how do we create a road map on how to get there? And that's what coaching is about. It's about, you know, where do you want to go? What are you now, what's the gap, you know? And as a coach, I'm going to help you to create a roadmap and an intentional way for you to move your learning and your actions for us that we can get to where you want to go. And by doing that, you can grow your skills as a leader and grow your influence of others.  Mitch: (03:50)Now that's the perfect segue to my next question because I'm curious, you know, kind of being a former accountant now, working with many accountants, what are some of the common goals that you've come across from these accounting leaders? What are they typically attempting to reach and what kind of roadmaps are you putting together for them?  Brian: (04:09)Yeah, Mitch. I think one of the most common goals that they have, it's really a, there's a big emotional part of this, but there's so many accountants out there where they, they want to, they want to feel bold enough to be able to create the life that they want in the future that they want and they want to feel like they have enough power to carve their job around what they want instead of, and let me compare that to sometimes how they feel. And it's usually fear based. It's usually all about struggle. A lot of times they feel like, wow, I've got this job and I've got to carve the rest of my life around my job because everything in my job comes first. And this is the way I've seen my peers do it. Or this is the way I've seen the people that have come before me do it. You know, job comes first. What I need to do comes first and the rest of my life is around that and what I love is we've worked with a lot of people with a lot of big hearts and they want to be bold and they want to create that future as they want it. Not always as how they've seen it. And so what they do is they want to have the boldness to say, Hey, can I visualize the future that I want? If I want to make partner in accounting farmer or if I want to be the CFO, can I become a CFO at this organization in a way where I can create the life I want? And the job of CFO or the job of partner fits into that. And, and so it can be the life I want sort of a life of someone else's or another type of model that's been created for me by somebody else. And that's really challenging for them and that's really, I think at the heart of what their bigger goals are, which is that life that they want and making everything and helping everything to fit into what is it they want. And.  Mitch: (06:04)What are some of the challenges that you typically encounter when trying to lead these accounting professionals through this plan that you develop or, you know, down this road? You know, the, the, the challenge is first kind of separating that emotional piece as you said, but once you're kind of on track, what typically happens?  Brian: (06:24)Yeah, it's unfortunate, but we've worked with a lot of accountants where they feel overwhelmed a big part of the time. And so they might ask, how do I take care of myself so that I don't burn out even when I'm really busy? You know, and you know, how can I work with my stress? How can I be proactive with my stress? You know, and this is to me in a lot of ways is a foundational challenge because whatever other challenges I made share with you are very common in our industry. This one is going to affect it, you know, so how do I manage my stress? How do I manage my anxiety and all that? And if I can do that well it's going to help me with so many of my other goals and so much of my vision and where I want to go. You know? And, and we always say, Hey, you know what, in order to do that, you have to be able to have a plan. You have to be intentional ...

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTAdam: (00:05)Welcome back to episode 33 of Count Me In, IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And today we are going to hear from Jordan Savage, a successful CFO who quickly climbed the traditional corporate ladder to get where he is today. And his conversation with Mitch, he explains the risks he took and the opportunities he recognized to overcome some challenges and obtain the skills needed to progress in our accounting industry. Let's keep listening to hear Jordan talk about today CFO.  Mitch: (00:41)So it kind of looks like you followed a pretty linear career path as far as the different roles and responsibilities you've had. Can you talk to us a little bit about the different roles and kind of how each time things have changed as far as your responsibilities and the value that you offered to the position?  Jordan: (00:58)Sure. So when I first started my career, I started kind of with an entry level position as a project accountant. And what I learned early on is you know, you just have to do the best you can in the role that you're in. And once you prove yourself and you do a good job, you have good internal and external opportunities for growth. And in my case I've had a lot of good internal growth and so I went from a project accountant to a senior financial analyst with one company. And what you find as far as responsibilities, how they change is you really have to you understand the lower levels and so as you grow your personal responsibilities will increase every time you move up the ladder. And so you become responsible not only for your work but the work of the entire team and that's the biggest change as you work your way up up the ladder.  Mitch: (01:57)How about just the industry as a whole? I mean, I know you talked about how your roles change, but what have you seen as far as accounting and what do you feel has really affected those changes the most?  Jordan: (02:09)I think the biggest change within the accounting industry is long gone are the days where an accountant comes in, books a transaction and just keeps up with the daily record keeping. now the role of the accountant is much more value driven. You know, there, there's not a lot of value with day to day record keeping because most of our ERP systems are starting to catch up and allow us to book transactions that are routine or simple, you know, automatically. And so the role of the accountant has changed significantly. I think you have to possess more skills that relate to technology, you know, how to interpret and work with data. I think the IMA has done a fantastic job of kind of highlighting these changes with their you got to earn it campaign. I think we've all seen the commercials where, you know, there's the robot that's walking through the office and I think that's starting to occur. It hasn't hit every industry yet, but that, that change will certainly come. And so the value that we have to provide as accountants is just different in today's day and age.  Mitch: (03:17)In what position did you personally realize these changes? When did you see the technology and the automation really start to take some of your responsibilities away?  Jordan: (03:28)I think when I was a senior financial analyst, you know, when, when we first started, our systems weren't very robust. And so we had to do a lot of data manipulation before we could get to what we really wanted to study or, or look at. And over time as our systems became more robust and, and as they were able to handle more routine transactions and so forth, we were able to get better data out. And so we were able to spend more of our time doing the analysis and so forth. And so I think, you know, any of those entry level or you know, kind of second level above entry level positions will start to feel that transition the most.  Mitch: (04:12)Kind of going along this ladder that we're climbing here, you start to realize these different transitions in the role. I'm assuming that you've probably come across some new challenges also. Right? So can you talk a little bit about some of the challenges you have faced in some of these higher positions?  Jordan: (04:28)Sure. Well, and I think I'd first say, you know, in my opinion, the technical accounting skills, you know, those come with time and experience. And so from a challenge perspective you know, I kind of list it into three different areas. For me personally you know, with my role as a CFO now the first would be sourcing capital for our organization. The second would be managing the operations. And then the third is people management. And so in the, in the real estate and construction industry, good access to capital is absolutely necessary to achieve growth. We work a lot with our banking relationships to increase the amount of capital that they're willing to deploy with our group. And it's a constant challenge for us because we've got a tremendous amount of good projects but limited and constrained resources. So for us, that's a huge challenge. How do we increase the amount of capital that our banking partners are willing to spend with us? second, you know, for us it's, you know, our operations, which is, you know, processes, procedures, allowing us to scale. We've got three main operations at the challenger group. We do single family homes kind of traditional home building. And then we do commercial development, which would be mostly apartment complexes. And then we've just started modular manufacturing facility and of these companies, most of them are less than two years old. We've, we've got a lot of startups that we're doing. And what's interesting about, you know, our environment and our challenges you know, some people work on one startup and it's hectic and crazy. And in our case we're working at about or working on about seven of them all at the same time in various stages. So finding ways to streamline the processes and procedures and to make sure that the lessons we learn in one company are applied to our other startups I mean is very important for us. And it really does present a lot of unique challenges as we try to grow. And then the third, as you grow in your career you know, people management becomes incredibly vital. We talked a lot about servant leadership at the IMA and, and that's important. And I think in most cases the most important asset that a company has is not their intellectual property or the way they do certain things or the product itself. It's absolutely the people that they employ. So one of the missions of the challenge of group is making life better. And that goes for our customers, trade partners and employees. And I love that if we're actually servant leaders, we can have a positive impact, not only on our businesses that we operate, but also the lives of the people that would come in contact with. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges we face is how do we manage people, you know, customers, trade partners coworkers, you know, the list goes on and on. And I found that that people management to be the most rewarding and difficult endeavors that I face. there's a great book called the outward mindset that I'd recommend the listeners to read. one of the things I took from that book was that people aren't just simply objects to help us achieve what we're trying to achieve. Each individual has needs, ob...