Always Be Testing

In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Lacie Thompson, an experienced agency leader, affiliate and partner marketing expert, and former operator at brands like Expedia and Blue Nile. After successfully scaling and exiting her agency, Lacie is now building Media Pack—an AI-powered platform designed to modernize and streamline how brands buy media.The conversation explores Lacie’s journey across brand-side, agency, and startup environments, highlighting how real-world frustrations led her to build solutions rooted in efficiency and transparency. From the broken workflows of flat-fee media buying to the lack of standardization across the industry, she unpacks the core problems that still slow teams down—and how AI is now making it possible to rethink the entire system.Beyond product and tech, the episode dives into the mindset behind building and scaling—from making decisions beyond data, to taking risks before feeling “ready,” to focusing on what truly creates differentiation. It’s a grounded and insightful look at what it takes to build in today’s AI-driven landscape while staying anchored in real customer needs.

Kyle White is the CEO & Founder of Refinery, an AI-powered affiliate technology solution. He brings a rare blend of experience across affiliate management (Overstock, Uber), product development, and data-driven experimentation. He previously built tools at Impact, led global affiliate/ambassador programs at Uber, and now focuses on making affiliate programs smarter, more automated, and more profitable using AI.In this conversation, Kyle breaks down how AI is transforming affiliate marketing, how brands can adopt product‑led growth principles, and why relevancy—not payouts—is the strongest signal in partner matchmaking. He shares lessons from scaling Uber’s Ambassador Program from a 7% to an 80% activation rate, what most brands get wrong about affiliate recruitment, and how to design tests that actually produce meaningful insights.The episode also covers trends shaping the future: the threat of AI search bypassing the affiliate channel, the rise of pay‑per‑performance TV & audio partners, and why the next era will require filtering through more noise to find true value. Kyle also shares personal stories—building a company with a newborn, being featured in South Park, speaking Russian from missionary service in the Baltics, and his love of film photography.

Doug Bell, fractional CMO and AI‑driven go‑to‑market strategist with leadership at Automation Anywhere, LeanData, and Searchmetrics. He discusses spotting untapped customer problems, rethinking lead management toward proactive, expert-led activation, and how AI and agent‑to‑agent interactions will change websites and discovery. Short diagnostics and public-data tactics for finding high-need prospects round out the conversation.

This episode explores the future of search and digital discoverability with an experienced SEO executive and growth advisor who has worked with high-growth marketplaces and SaaS companies. The conversation unpacks how the mechanics of online discovery are being reshaped by AI, shifting user behavior, and the declining reliability of traditional traffic channels. Together, we examine why visibility is no longer just a marketing function but a product and experience challenge — where trust, intent, and usefulness determine whether users discover and choose a product. The discussion also covers how teams should rethink SEO from a tactical ranking exercise into a strategic growth capability, what durable acquisition looks like today, and how organizations can adapt their playbooks to stay relevant as search continues to evolve.

Wade Tonkin, Director of Global Affiliate Marketing at Fanatics with 20+ years in performance marketing. He discusses scaling affiliate programs to massive global reach. Conversation covers pivoting from coupons to content and media partnerships, publisher performance teams, attribution and transparency challenges, BNPL trends, AI automation in affiliate ops, and experiments in compensation models.

In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange is joined by Cormac Jonas, CEO and Founder of The Jonas Agency, for a deep dive into what’s actually broken in modern performance marketing. With years of experience across affiliate, paid media, and creator-led growth, Cormac brings a sharp perspective on why so many brands are optimizing campaigns while ignoring the bigger problem: flawed measurement.The conversation unpacks how misattribution, last-click bias, and platform incentives distort ROI, using the recent Honey browser extension controversy as a real-world example of how value gets misassigned across channels. They explore why TikTok and YouTube reshaped high-intent demand, how AI, CTV, and programmatic traffic are inflating “performance” metrics, and why owning an audience now matters more than owning traffic. This episode is a candid look at where affiliate and performance marketing are heading — and what brands need to fix before scaling spend.

Guillaume Cabane, founder of HyperGrowth Partners and veteran B2B SaaS growth leader, shares why most companies fail to scale and what a true growth team looks like. He discusses rapid, high-cadence experimentation, breaking big projects into testable pieces, aligning growth with sales, the real role of SDRs, where AI helps, and the cultural shifts needed to tolerate failure and move fast.

In this episode of Always Be Testing, Tye DeGrange sits down with Ziggy Kopetti, a veteran affiliate marketing operator and platform founder who has spent years working inside the mechanics of performance marketing—from attribution and partner incentives to how networks and platforms actually make money.The conversation explores how affiliate programs really scale, where brands commonly misjudge incentives, and why many performance issues are self-inflicted by poor structure rather than bad partners. Ziggy breaks down the economic realities behind affiliate platforms, how creators and publishers think about risk and reward, and why transparency and alignment matter more than tooling alone. The episode also touches on where affiliate marketing is headed, what brands misunderstand about creator partnerships, and how short-term optimization often creates long-term trust problems.

In this emergency episode of Always Be Testing, I’m joined by Ben Edelman—an economist, lawyer, and one of the most respected affiliate fraud investigators in the industry. Ben has spent over two decades uncovering adware abuse, browser extension misconduct, and attribution fraud, working with merchants, networks, and publishers to protect the integrity of affiliate marketing.We break down what actually happened with the Honey browser extension, why multiple affiliate networks removed it, and why this case is fundamentally different from past controversies. Ben explains how affiliate attribution is supposed to work, how “stand down” rules came to exist, and how Honey allegedly bypassed those rules by intentionally concealing violations from testers and networks. We also discuss the real impact on content publishers, review sites, and the broader ecosystem—and why concealment, not just rule-breaking, changes the legal and ethical stakes. This episode is a deep, technical, but essential conversation for anyone who cares about transparency, trust, and accountability in partner marketing.

In this episode, I get the chance to sit down with Jen Goodwin, a powerhouse with 17 years of experience driving growth across e-commerce and affiliate marketing. Jen has helped scale some of the biggest brands in the space and played a major role in two successful exits — the acquisition of Coupons.com (Quotient) and Honey’s $4B sale to PayPal.She’s worked at every level of an organization, mentoring new talent, partnering with the C-suite, and leading teams through transformation and growth. Today, she co-leads Hi Energy Agency, where she helps publishers scale faster through smarter affiliate partnerships and more efficient monetization strategies across major networks.Our conversation digs into what real leadership looks like inside high-growth environments — the tough decisions, the clarity required, the importance of operational discipline, and the mindset shifts that separate good teams from great ones. Jen brings a level of honesty and practical insight that operators will immediately recognize and appreciate.