OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance

A declining birth rate is a positive trend that can lead to greater prosperity. Vegard Skirbekk, population economist and author of the book, Decline and Prosper! Changing Global Birth Rates and the Advantages of Fewer Children, joins us. To counteract the increasingly alarmist fears of population decline, we have a sobering conversation with population economist, Vegard Skirbekk. He takes us through decades of demographic research to lay to rest apocalyptic forecasts and insecurities around exploding healthcare costs, high shares of people dependent on others for care and economic support, labor shortages, and economic and cultural stagnation, and explains why instead a declining birth rate is not only a positive trend but one that can lead to more prosperity. He provides key ideas on how governments can and should embrace and adapt to an aging population through citizen-centered policies and attitudes. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/vegard-skirbekk ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Human supremacy keeps us from appreciating the incredible beauty and complexity of other creatures and their cultures. Carl Safina, ecologist and author of Becoming Wild, joins us. We discuss how human supremacy keeps us from appreciating the incredible beauty and complexity of other creatures, and has led to the diminishment of most wild beings and places. Carl's work fuses scientific understanding, emotional connection, and a moral call to action. He sees that the durability of human dignity and survival of the natural world will depend on each other; we cannot preserve the wild unless we preserve human dignity, and we cannot preserve human dignity while continuing to degrade nature. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/carl-safina ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Medical institutions help fuel pronatalism. Kristyn Brandi, a proud abortion provider and board chair with Physicians for Reproductive Health, debunks the "biological clock" and discusses what the overturning of Roe v Wade means in terms of safe abortion care for already marginalized communities. In this episode Dr. Kristyn Brandi, an Obstetrician-Gynecologist, shares how the medical institution in one of many that fuels pronatalism. We also discuss what the overturning of Roe v Wade means in terms of safe abortion care for the already marginalized communities, including BIPOC, LGBTQ, people with disabilities, and those living in poverty, within the U.S. We end the conversation by unpacking the dark history of reproductive control, including slavery, eugenics, and population control, and why centering reproductive autonomy through a deep understanding of Critical Race Theory (CRT), Reproductive Justice (RJ), and pronatalism, is essential to upholding reproductive rights and a sustainable environment. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/kristyn-brandi ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

We were scheduled to speak with Helen Kopnina and Haydn Washington on December 16th when this episode was recorded. We are very sad to report that Haydn died on December 10th after a battle with cancer. We are grateful to be joined by his friend and colleague, Helen, and we dedicate this episode to the memory of Haydn Washington. Highlights of this episode include: Helen's tribute to Haydn and his uncompromising commitment to sustainability and justice; The definition of ecocentrism and Helen's personal introduction to an eco-centric worldview through nature's healing power; Helen's personal experiences of living in Soviet Union, the US, Europe, and India and how those informed her views on degrowth and sustainability; The social and ecological costs of population denialism, and the loss of academic integrity on this topic; A recognition of our need to unite efforts across the different liberation movements in order to maximize our impacts against systems of oppression. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/helen-kopnina ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

The dominant worldview that we are machines driven by selfishness and competition needs to be dismantled and replaced with a life-affirming worldview of deep interconnectedness that weaves together modern science and traditional wisdom. Jeremy Lent, author of The Web of Meaning and The Patterning Instinct, joins us. Jeremy's work integrates science and traditional wisdom to lay out a solid foundation for a life-affirming worldview of deep interconnectedness. By dismantling the dominant narrative that we are machines driven by selfishness and competition, Jeremy helps us reconsider our human identity in the context of the deep intelligence and cooperativeness that animates life both within and around us. Such a recognition behooves us to drop the veil of supremacy that keeps us separate from the rest of nature and to embrace a path in which we can participate in changing the course from that of potential collapse to one of regenerating the Earth for symbiotic flourishing. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/jeremy-lent ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Women who choose not to be mothers are frequently warned that they will regret their decision later in life, yet we rarely discuss the possibility that mothers who have children might regret it. Sociologist Orna Donath, author of Regretting Motherhood, joins us. In this episode with Israeli sociologist Dr. Orna Donath, we unpack her work on this highly stigmatized topic of motherhood regret. Orna helps us understand the distinctions between ambivalence and regret, as well as non-natalism and anti-natalism. We also discuss her thoughts on the stringent control that society has over our emotions and actions, specifically as they relate to procreative decisions. From voluntary childlessness to the influence of neoliberalism on feminist thought, we end with reflection on how pronatalism is inherently oppressive and a cause for much confusion and suffering for parents and non-parents alike, while also being ecologically destructive. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/orna-donath ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Current growth-based economic models devalue and destroy nature. Partha Dasgupta, economist and author of The Economics of Biodiversity: The Dasgupta Review, joins us. Partha Dasgupta describes how the current growth-based economic models came to be, and why their nature-destructive policies have turned our planet into a house of cards. We unpack Dasgupta's most recent publication The Economics of Biodiversity: The Dasgupta Review from 2021, a 600-page study that was commissioned by the UK Government, which examines the economic benefits of biodiversity and the cost of losing it. He also explains how he arrived at his approximation of 3.2 billion as a sustainable human population at a decent standard of living, and how using a behavioral economics approach, we can achieve such a goal. Dasgupta ends off by appealing to social scientists to embrace an integrative approach to academic thinking that is not encumbered by political correctness, which has led to such widespread denialism of the population factor and, as a result, a perilous situation for us and the rest of the planet. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/partha-dasgupta ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

The human species faces multiple cascading social and ecological crises that require embracing the limits to growth. Robert Jensen, retired journalism professor, social activist and organizer, and co-author of An Inconvenient Apocalypse: Environmental Collapse, Climate Crisis, and the Fate of Humanity, joins us. Against the backdrop of cascading ecological and social crises of subjugation of people and nature under the dominion of patriarchy, capitalism, imperialism, and anthropocentrism, we engage in a humbling dialogue about what it would mean for us to grapple with difficult questions and to consciously embrace limits, as a pathway to a more graceful and meaningful co-existence with nature. See episode website for show notes and links: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/robert-jensen ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Mass media can be used to model positive social change at large scale. Bill Ryerson, the founder and long-time leader of Population Media Center, joins us. Population Media Center's TV and radio shows have promoted important social and cultural changes and have helped 500 million people in more than 50 countries. Bill discusses the inspiration for PMC's groundbreaking edu-entertainment—the Sabido-Bandura method, a combination Albert Bandura's social cognitive theory—that people learn from role models whose behavior they wish to emulate, and Miguel Sabido's serialized dramas that make use of such role models through mass media. We also hear about some of the most uplifting success stories Bill has witnessed over his 50-year long career in the field, as well as PMC's exciting future plans. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript: https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/william-ryerson ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today's interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity's excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings. Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Eileen Crist, an environmental writer and scholar focused on biodiversity loss, shares her insights on fostering harmony between humans and nature. She explores the biodiversity crisis, emphasizing the impact of habitat loss and advocating for plant-based diets to alleviate pressure on the planet. Crist highlights the pitfalls of human supremacy and expansionism, urging a shift towards indigenous values of reciprocity with the Earth. She envisions an ecological civilization where 'earthling' identities lead to meaningful work and restored wild spaces.