The Startup Podcast

In 2026, startups age like milk. Josh Foreman's solution is a radical one - step down as CEO, go back to basics, and refound the whole company. Yaniv Bernstein discusses this decision with Josh, founder and (for now) CEO of InDebted - the AI-native debt resolution business he scaled to an $80M revenue run rate, a Series C raise, and operations across 8 markets. Just days before recording, Josh publicly announced he's hiring a new CEO so he can step back into the business as a hands-on operator and refound the company for the agentic AI era.In this conversation, Josh and Yaniv discuss 'refounding' in practice, what it takes to rebuild the company's processes from the ground up, and why technical founders who don't go back on the tools right now are setting themselves up to be outbuilt by a smaller, faster, leaner version of themselves.In this episode, you will:Learn why Josh believes the highest-leverage role for a technical founder in 2026 is no longer CEO, and how to structure a founder-CEO partnership that actually worksUnderstand why 'feature patching' an established business is a losing strategy, and what it really means to rebuild your company function-by-function from a clean slateDiscover how revenue-per-employee has become the metric that matters most when raising capital and competing with AI-native upstartsHear why services-as-software and performance-fee models are suddenly the bull case for investors who hated them 12 months ago - and why the SaaS seat fee is on the way outFind out what it looks like to unbundle your product into agent-ready primitives, and why owning the eval for a narrow domain may be a bigger moat than your full-stack UITimestamps00:00 Coming Up: Refounding00:41 Josh Foreman, CEO (for now)01:41 What Refounding Means04:53 Rebuilding the Factory07:38 Bringing the Team Along10:51 No Choice but Change14:56 Aligning the Board and Investors16:52 Putting Founders Back on the Tools26:24 'Corporate Ozempic' Shrinking Teams32:57 Unbundling and Products for Agents38:39 Hiring a CEO When Refounding44:11 Closing ThoughtsMentioned in this episodeJosh Foreman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshforeman/InDebted: https://www.indebted.co/Scott Galloway on 'Corporate Ozempic': https://www.profgalloway.com/corporate-ozempic/Surviving the AI SaaSpocalypse with Scotty Allen: https://youtu.be/j84LF4aru8I 'Paranoid Optimism' with Yaniv: https://youtu.be/FGqbdzr0-PM The PactHonor the Startup Podcast Pact! If you have listened to TSP and gotten value from it, please:Follow, rate, and review us in your listening appSecure your official TSP merchandise at https://shop.tsp.show/Follow us here on YouTube for full-video episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNjm1MTdjysRRV07fSf0yGgGive us a public shout-out on LinkedIn or anywhere you have a social media followingKey linksThis episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by .tech domains. Forget weird prefixes and creative misspellings; the availability for .tech domains is simply way better than .com. For a clean name that highlights your tech credentials, get a .tech domain at your favorite registrar.The Startup Podcast website: https://www.tsp.show/episodes/Learn more about Chris and YanivWork 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthurAssistant Producer: Steph Hefferan https://www.linkedin.com/in/steph-heff/Intro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/

Many AI startups funded in the last 18 months won't last three years - so what makes a business durable today?Yaniv Bernstein is joined by Marlon Nichols, co-founder and managing general partner of MaC Venture Capital - one of the most active seed-stage AI investors in the market, having scaled MaC to over $600M AUM across three funds in just four years. Marlon's portfolio includes Pipe, Stoke Space, Thrive Market, Chef Robotics, and exits like Wonder Dynamics to Autodesk and Gimlet Media to Spotify.In this conversation, Marlon uses his industry experience to explain the biggest threats to new AI startups, and what the key components of successful startups in the industry will be.In this episode, you will:Hear why Marlon thinks niche or mid-size foundational models are now prime acquisition targets for OpenAIDiscover why misreading traction is the #1 mistake VCs are making right nowLearn why Marlon is more excited about manufacturing-line prediction and grid-scale batteries than humanoid robotsExplore why founder unit economics need a complete rewrite when token costs replace SaaS-style marginal costUnderstand why software is no longer a moat — and why data access, deep customer integration, and speed are the only three durable advantages left at the application layerLearn the difference between AI-native companies and AI-bolted-on companies, and what a 5-year-old startup should do if it's on the wrong side of that lineTimestamps00:00 Coming Up01:07 On Today's Show: Durable Tech02:33 Meet Marlon Nichols03:25 Defining 'Durable' AI Startups05:23 Moats for Foundation Models07:15 Chef Robotics and AI Native vs AI Enabled09:24 Upgrading Legacy Startups10:55 Pipe’s AI Pivot Case Study13:19 Winning at the App Layer15:56 Speed and Workflow Stickiness17:51 Investment Checklist and Team20:30 Automotive Digital Twins and Regulatory Testing24:27 Why Physical AI?26:09 Robotics In Manufacturing26:55 Energy Storage And Batteries28:30 Why Cheaper Builds Still Need Talent30:19 Where Traction Can Be Misleading33:41 Token Costs And Unit Economics36:46 Closing ThoughtsMentioned in this episodeMaC Venture Capital: https://macventurecapital.com/Marlon Nichols on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marloncnichols/'The Bitter Lesson' by Rich Sutton: http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.htmlVera (Yaniv's startup, AI-supported guidance for people caring for ageing parents): https://vera.guide/The PactHonor the Startup Podcast Pact! If you have listened to TSP and gotten value from it, please:Follow, rate, and review us in your listening appSecure your official TSP merchandise at https://shop.tsp.show/Follow us here on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNjm1MTdjysRRV07fSf0yGgGive us a public shout-out on LinkedIn or anywhere you have a social media followingKey linksThis episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by .tech domains. Forget weird prefixes and creative misspellings; the availability for .tech domains is simply way better than .com. For a clean name that highlights your tech credentials, get a .tech domain at your favorite registrar.This episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by Vanta. Vanta helps businesses get and stay compliant by automating up to 90% of the work for the most in demand compliance frameworks. With over 200 integrations, you can easily monitor and secure the tools your business relies on. For a limited time offer of US$1,000 off, go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠www.vanta.com/tsp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Startup Podcast website: https://www.tsp.show/episodes/Learn more about Chris and YanivWork 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthurAssistant Producer: Steph Hefferan https://www.linkedin.com/in/steph-heff/Intro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/

Being a founder has always meant dreaming big while keeping a close eye on potential trip-ups, and in the age of AI, finding and maintaining that balance is more important than ever.Today, Yaniv Bernstein talks about the importance of getting that balance right. Using deep insight and decades of industry experience, he discusses why now is the time for founders to be more ambitious than ever before - while identifying threats to success and keeping a keen, near-paranoid eye on them.In this episode, you will:Understand why ‘paranoid optimism’ has always been the founder superpower, and why AI has made it more essential than everLearn why tokens are ‘the new oil’ and how the ‘token OPEC’ is already exerting price and product leverage over every AI-native startupExplore Garry Tan's ‘boil the lake’ concept and why early-stage founders can now afford to be more ambitious in scope than ever beforeFind out why startups have a bigger speed advantage over incumbents than at any time in history, and how to actually use itDiscover how foundation model providers like Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google can wipe out entire startup categories without ever deliberately competing with youTimestamps00:00 Coming Up00:59 On Today's Show: Paranoid Optimism01:27 Surviving as a Baby Turtle03:00 Risks of Pure Optimism05:24 A Herd of Thundering Elephants07:44 Magic Elephants09:50 3 Shifts: Compression, Leverage and Startup Advantage12:54 YC's Garry Tan & 'Boiling The Lake'15:38 Why Be Paranoid?15:52 AI Risks Category Collapse18:13 Anthropic, Google and OpenAI: The OPEC of Tokens19:51 Identity Collapse21:54 How to Operate As Paranoid Optimist21:59 1. Holding Strong Priors and Updating Fast23:31 2. Architecting For Escape25:57 3. Stay Closer To The Problem Than The Solution28:13 Closing ThoughtsResources mentioned in this episode'Same As Ever' by Morgan Housel: https://www.amazon.com/Same-Ever-Guide-Never-Changes/dp/0593332709Last week’s episode - Same As Ever: 7 rules that HAVEN'T changed about building great startups (w/ Amir Shevat): https://www.tsp.show/same-as-ever-7-rules-that-havent-changed-about-building-great-startups-w-amir-shevat/Previous episode - 'Unlearning' with Yaniv: Why founders need to rewrite outdated, radioactive mindsets: https://www.tsp.show/unlearning-with-yaniv-why-founders-need-to-rewrite-outdated-radioactive-mindsets/Garry Tan’s 'Boil the Ocean' blog post: https://garryslist.org/posts/boil-the-oceanVera, Yaniv's current startup: https://vera.guide/ The PactHonor the Startup Podcast Pact! If you have listened to TSP and gotten value from it, please:Follow, rate, and review us in your listening appSecure your official TSP merchandise at https://shop.tsp.show/Follow us here on YouTube for full-video episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNjm1MTdjysRRV07fSf0yGgGive us a public shout-out on LinkedIn or anywhere you have a social media followingKey linksThis episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by .tech domains. Forget weird prefixes and creative misspellings; the availability for .tech domains is simply way better than .com. For a clean name that highlights your tech credentials, get a .tech domain at your favorite registrar.The Startup Podcast website: https://www.tsp.show/episodes/Learn more about Chris and YanivWork 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthurAssistant Producer: Steph Hefferan https://www.linkedin.com/in/steph-heff/Intro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/

Amir Shevat, investor and former Silicon Valley platform and product leader (Google, Slack), shares seven timeless rules for founders. He discusses why hiring brilliant teams still matters. He focuses on delightful UX and designing for emotion. He warns about shallow moats and urges building real advantages. He also stresses authentic selling, choosing the right markets, and keeping a bold long-term vision.

Scotty Allen, bootstrapper and founder of The Product Bus who helps startups validate product and strategy, joins to tackle AI survival for startups. They debate why this AI wave threatens many micro-SaaS businesses. They unpack headless SaaS as a defense, why agent-centric tools win, the thin vs thick product distinction, and how tolerance for ambiguity matters for founders.

A founder’s guide to shedding outdated, harmful expertise and rebuilding beliefs from scratch. AI’s acceleration of change and why expertise half-lives are shrinking. Psychological traps like sunk costs and identity that block adaptation. Practical mental models for unlearning: belief audits, first principles, and systems thinking. Advice on scheduling time to adapt and leaning into discomfort to stay relevant.

Dr. Matthew Jones, organizational psychologist and author of The Cofounder Effect, helps founding teams repair strained partnerships. He discusses how co-founder conflict ripples through company culture. Short syncs vs. intentional 'co-founder dates' are compared. He outlines repair practices, co-founder coaching, and the Three Languages framework to diagnose communication breakdowns.

Dr. Matthew Jones, clinical psychologist and co-founder coach who wrote The Cofounder Effect, explores the psychology behind founder splits. He lays out early warning signs like recurring trust erosion and negative sentiment override. Short segments cover power dynamics, three- and four-person coalition risks, attachment-driven pursue-withdraw cycles, and why deliberate repair and evolving agreements matter.

Keoki Alexander-Chang, founder and CEO of Minikai and former Deloitte AI lead, builds AI agents to cut admin in disability and aged care. He talks about person-centred AI, fine-grained access control and provenance for safety. He explains using continuously running agents to update sales pipelines, wearing lapel mics to turn meetings into code, and rethinking build vs buy in an AI-native stack.

Has your hiring process kept up with the industry’s AI leaps, or are you still interviewing like it's 2022?Today’s AI-driven landscape means the skill gap between a good engineer and a great one widens every day, and the great ones can be difficult to find. But how do you choose – and hire – the best in the business? How do you find those elusive engineers who can skilfully handle multi-agent workflows, ship in hours what used to take weeks, and add an AI-focused competitive edge to your startup?In this episode, Chris Saad and Yaniv Bernstein are joined by Matt Cook, an expert in hiring the best engineers in the business, and co-founder of Scouut – one of Australia's most respected engineering recruiters for early-stage startups. Matt works with pre-seed through to Series C companies and has a front-row seat to how AI is reshaping what ‘great’ looks like in engineering, and how founders and hiring teams alike can keep pace.They cover what's fundamentally changed in engineering hiring, what hasn't, and how to build a small, elite team that punches well above its weight.In this episode, you will:Understand why AI is widening the gap between great and average engineersDiscover the three questions to ask any Big Tech candidate to determine if they'll thrive in a startupFind out why much more is expected of ‘senior’ engineers, and what that means for foundersHear how the best startups are now testing for AI competency in interviews, not just coding abilityLearn why smaller teams, higher salaries, and generous token budgets are the new arbitrage for attracting elite engineersUnderstand why you should be designing the role for the people you want, and making your AI-forward culture clearly visibleResources mentioned in this episodeScouut (Matt Cook's engineering recruitment firm for early-stage startups): https://scouut.com.au/Matt Cook on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewmarkcook/Loki (Australian startup referenced for their public AI-first hiring stance): https://www.itsloki.com/Solid (lightweight vibe-coding tool mentioned by Chris): https://trysolid.com/The Pact Honor the Startup Podcast Pact! If you have listened to TSP and gotten value from it, please:Follow, rate, and review us in your listening appSubscribe to the TSP Mailing List to gain access to exclusive newsletter-only content and early access to information on upcoming episodes: https://thestartuppodcast.beehiiv.com/subscribeSecure your official TSP merchandise at https://shop.tsp.show/ Follow us here on YouTube for full-video episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNjm1MTdjysRRV07fSf0yGg Give us a public shout-out on LinkedIn or anywhere you have a social media followingKey linksThis episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by .tech domains. Forget weird prefixes and creative misspellings; the availability for .tech domains is simply way better than .com. For a clean name that highlights your tech credentials, get a .tech domain at your favorite registrar.This episode of the Startup Podcast is sponsored by Vanta. Vanta helps businesses get and stay compliant by automating up to 90% of the work for the most in demand compliance frameworks. With over 200 integrations, you can easily monitor and secure the tools your business relies on. For a limited time offer of US$1,000 off, go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠www.vanta.com/tsp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get your question in for our next Q&A episode: https://forms.gle/NZzgNWVLiFmwvFA2A The Startup Podcast website: https://www.tsp.show/episodes/Learn more about Chris and YanivWork 1:1 with Chris: http://chrissaad.com/advisory/ Follow Chris on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrissaad/ Follow Yaniv on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ybernstein/Producer: Justin McArthur https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcarthurIntro Voice: Jeremiah Owyang https://web-strategist.com/