

heretics.
Andrew Gold
What makes you a heretic? Journalist Andrew Gold talks to everyone from cult defectors and politicians to mainstream celebrities—people who’ve challenged the expected script and lived with the consequences.
Guests include Robbie Williams, Chris Packham, David Baddiel, Richard Dawkins, Bonnie Blue, and former UK Prime Minister Liz Truss.
Guests include Robbie Williams, Chris Packham, David Baddiel, Richard Dawkins, Bonnie Blue, and former UK Prime Minister Liz Truss.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 5, 2020 • 53min
20: 'OCD and intrusive thoughts are ruining my life'
James McMahon is a music journalist and former editor of Kerrang music magazine who also had several prominent roles at NME – which is also a very big music magazine. He’s very talented and does all sorts of things, from illustration and animal portraits to a paranormal email magazine called Spoook and interviews with the likes of Green Day, U2 and 50 Cent. He’s also written for Vice, The Guardian and the Big Issue among other prestigious titles.
(Follow the podcast on twitter.com/andrewgold_ok or instagram.com/andrewgold_ok or facebook.com/ontheedgewithandrewgold)
But today, we’re going to talk about his struggle with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It’s something I struggled with myself as a teenager and haven’t really spoken about. I wouldn’t want to now say I have OCD any more than the average person; I’m sure all of you have some aspects of obsessive compulsion – but the disorder part is where James comes in.
I came across his other project, the OCD Chronicles, in which he interviews all sorts of people with different kinds of OCD, which affects everybody slightly differently. His latest interview was with Mara Wilson, the child star you might know from Matilda or Mrs. Doubtfire. I put forward the theory to James that learning to be Matilda – a young girl who can control things with her mind – might have been a catalyst for her disorder. But I think both James and Mara can see that it’s a little more complicated than that.
In any case, we talk about how it has affected James, and get on to parts you maybe didn’t expect from OCD, including intrusive thoughts – and there are some surprising and difficult ones that have plagued James for some time.
If you think that you, or your loved ones might be suffering with this debilitating disorder, I’ve put links to OCD UK and OCD Action in the episode description, so do get in touch with them. Check out James’ OCD Chronicles on https://www.jamesjammcmahon.com or follow him on Twitter via @jamesjammcmahon.
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Sep 28, 2020 • 48min
19: Coffin Confessor: I crash funerals to reveal secrets of the dead
Have you ever wished to have the last word in an argument? Like actually the definitive last word, where nobody can ever come back at you. Well, a private investigator in Queensland Australia called William Edgar believes he has the answer. (Find video teasers on andrewgold_ok on Insta and Twitter)
If you hire him, when you die – he’ll turn up at your funeral and give everyone a piece of your late mind. To lend his voice to the departed, he charges around $10,000 Australian dollars a pop for the service and makes sure to look into your claims, so that he’s not just spouting rubbish at a funeral. He’ll also rummage through your belongings after you pass, hiding anything you don’t want your loved ones to see. I don’t want to give too much away right now, but we’ll talk about a pensioner’s sex dungeon, a secretly gay biker and some pretty crazy funeral clashes.
You’ll find him @thecoffinconfessor on Instagram and the same on Facebook. His website is thecoffinconfessor.com.au. Despite the gloomy topic, he’s actually a lot of fun, and I love talking to such colourful characters, it’s sort of the whole point of the podcast, so I hope you enjoy being transported now to his world. Warning to my father, and all of our fathers and mothers – I think about 30% of his words are of the swearing variety. It does get a little serious too – about halfway through, he brought up something I didn’t know about – his childhood abuse, which sounds horrific. Look up the Lost Boy of TSS to know more about that – but it’s interesting how that sparked his enthusiasm for his current career.
At the end of the pod, I’ll be reading out a couple reviews and promoting the video of this pod for its most enthusiastic fans. But for now, we’re in Queensland Australia to speak to the Coffin Confessor Bill Edgar.
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Sep 21, 2020 • 46min
18: Prison Call: 'I killed my girlfriend in botched suicide attempt'
This is probably my most ambitious and tricky podcast episode. I spoke with convict Bobby Caldwell in a Michigan prison. Catch trailers on andrewgold_ok on Twitter/Insta. I'd also like to thank Alan Burke - @burkewhy on Twitter - for suggesting I invite Bobby on - great shout, Alan!
After suffering for years with crippling depression, Bobby made headlines around the world when he accidentally shot and killed his partner Monica Anderson, 28, in a botched and drunken suicide attempt. He says that because he didn’t want to put her family through more pain, he pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and was sentenced to a maximum of 17 years, of which he’s served six. Monica left behind two children, one of whom is Bobby’s son. Friends remember her for her outgoing, vivacious nature and her baking abilities – she even competed in a cake festival and dreamed of opening her own cake business.
Bobby came to my attention through his own podcast, Notes from the Pen, which he records via phone calls with his friend Freddie on the outside. It’s a fascinating and unique look behind the bars, giving us an insight into daily life, social hierarchies and Bobby’s evolving thoughts on life and what happened that fateful day.
This episode was also complicated for journalistic reasons – when some people hear that the bullets from Bobby’s gun travelled up the stairs and hit Monica in the side of her back, they’re sceptical about whether it was an accident. We’ve all seen enough documentaries and films about that kind of thing. I racked my brain for days about whether or not to bring that up.
The authorities who examined the case believe he was negligent – which he admits – but did not intend to shoot her. I’m not a judge, and even the slightest hint of an opinion from me about intent would be totally irresponsible on my part and extremely damaging to Bobby, who is paying an awful price for what, by all accounts, was a terrible accident.
At the same time, I wouldn’t be doing my job as a journalist, if I didn’t at least broach the fact that some people might not believe him. You as a listener would be screaming at me from behind your screens about such a large elephant in the room. I think asking him about it also gave him a chance to explain and defend himself – it’s something that really bothers him, quite understandably.
Despite this being such a serious topic, I wanted to start with a lighter note, so that we could get to know each other a little before delving into the worst night of his life, so we do talk now about privacy, defecation and masturbation in a state prison.
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Sep 14, 2020 • 49min
17: Helen Lewis: bad sex, bin bags and difficult women
Catch the video trailers on https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok or https://www.instagram.com/andrewgold_ok/.
I’ve just had a very fun chat with Helen Lewis, the pre-eminent British journalist of The Guardian, The Atlantic, GQ and others - about Difficult Women. That’s the topic of the podcast, but it’s also the name of Helen’s eye-opening new book which you can get in all the normal places and here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Difficult-Women-History-Feminism-Fights/dp/1787331288
I wanted to have her on the show because she has a distinctively measured take on the battles women have faced over the last century or so. Her book covers obstacles women have had to overcome over the years, such as getting divorce legalised, getting the vote, changing the way we talk about sex and so on. But it does so without lecturing or reproaching men; while also adopting a warts and all approach to the women she writes about. They weren’t saints – and Helen writes about things like the jealousy and classist rivalries in the suffragette movement; and how some of these pioneering feminists were attracted to fascism and eugenics. I also wanted to have Helen on because I’ve recently had conservative Lord Daniel Finkelstein, and before that, anti-woke academics – and I don’t want this podcast to become some sort of hub of incels and misogynists and things – Helen shows how you can be an activist, you can fight for social justice without alienating everyone else or showing off your virtue.
She has long been a famous name in British journalism due to her pre-eminence as a writer; she’s made radio documentaries for the BBC, including a recent one I enjoyed called the Roots of Woke Culture, where she interviewed anti-social justice scholars Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay – who also came on this podcast. However, her name really took off online after her GQ interview on YouTube with famous Canadian psychiatrist Jordan Peterson. I don’t want you to leave this podcast, but I do recommend you check it out – it has 16 million views right now, so it’s likely you’ve already seen it.
I thought she really held her own against one of the world’s most famous intellects. Concerned about woke culture and often extending an olive branch to men. We discuss that Jordan Peterson interview as well as trans rights, woke culture, sex and…we really do laugh quite a lot, I really enjoyed this one, and hope you do too.
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Sep 7, 2020 • 48min
16: Lord Daniel Finkelstein: Times Columnist and Conservative Peer
For video clips, follow me - andrewgold_ok - on Twitter or Instagram.
A close friend of former prime minister David Cameron and Chancellor George Osborne, Daniel Finkelstein is a conservative peer and Times political columnist who has just released a collection of his best articles entitled Everything in Moderation. As I said to him in my email asking him on the show, the title of his book is the antithesis in every way to the podcast’s epithet of On the Edge.
But, having read Daniel’s insightful book, which I’d recommend to everyone looking to get a sense of perspective - it does correspond with many of my views about the world. When I have a psychopath, a paedophile or a cult member on this podcast, the idea is not to celebrate or promote their ideas, but often to show the perils of living life too far on the edge, too close to precipice. That’s why I like to round off those edges every other week by hearing from thought leaders – we’ve had anti-woke scholars Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay, futurist Zoltan Istvan – and this week I’m interviewing feminist Helen Lewis.
But right now I’m honoured to introduce Daniel Finkelstein, a conservative who is perhaps known for his uber modernist beliefs. He runs counter to the stereotype of the old-fashioned Tory, with liberal views on pretty much everything. With a father who had been exiled in Siberia and a mother who was a survivor of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, he grew up able with a clear grasp on the perils of the extremes and the safety and liberties extended by the centre.
He’s centre-right, and I ask him what makes a conservative and why so many people find them repellent. We talk about what he said to actor Martin Freeman and what it’s like down the pub with David Cameron and George Osborne. What was really going on in Cameron’s mind when he confused his football team of Aston Villa with West Ham. He also talks about prime minister Boris Johnson, with rumours abound about his stepping down in the coming months.
To non-Brits or those who aren’t politically minded, there are some parts that delve into the nitty gritty, but Daniel does speak a lot about accessible and universal concepts. This is not a political podcast – and I’d be totally out of my depth framing it as such – it’s the type of podcast where I ask ‘Hey, what actually is a Lord?’ and ‘Which footie team DOES David Cameron support.’ As a writer, Daniel is not afraid to pluck cases from the popular or low-brow zeitgeist to make broader political points, and I hope you feel this podcast reflects that accessibility.
By the way, thanks again for listening and recommending this pod to friends. It’s only a few months old but just entered the top 2 of Apple’s documentary section in the UK. It’s in their prestigious New and Noteworthy category too right now, so I’m delighted to welcome all the new listeners. Please make sure to leave a review in the Apple Podcasts app. If you use another app, don’t worry, there’s no homework – just enjoy.
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Aug 31, 2020 • 51min
15: The Bigamist: My husband had 2 wives, 5 fiancées and 14 kids
One day, as she was on her way to take the kids out the house, Mary Turner Thomson received a phone call that was about to turn her life upside down. The woman on the other end was her husband Will Jordan’s other wife. I’m barely scratching the surface in this intro, as I think she tells it best, and I’d also really like you to get hold of her book, The Bigamist. But she agrees it’s not a spoiler to tell you that Will is a psychopath; he had at least two wives and 5 fiancées while with her; those are just the ones Mary knows about, as well as more than a dozen children.
He explained his long absences by saying he was a spy, and went to extraordinary lengths to prove it. He mutilated parts of his own body to show he’d been out fighting a secret war, and appeared to get old friends to collude in his lies, calling Mary and appearing to be part of his life in the secret services.
Will was imprisoned but is now out doing his psychopath stuff to other unsuspecting victims. It’s just about the craziest story I’ve ever heard, and you’re about to hear some of the most unbelievable parts about the ways he managed to extract money from her and the other women in his life.
In the aftermath, Mary wrote The Bigamist, detailing the whole saga, and has just written a follow-up called The Psychopath, where she goes into more detail about what it is to be one – so get hold of that in March when it comes out – until then, you can satiate your psycho desire with my earlier podcast with M.E. Thomas, who is one herself. Mary’s story was also the inspiration for The Psychopath Test, by Jon Ronson, who toured afterwards with her.
By the way, I’ve been asking people to review – and this week people started kicking off at me, going there’s nowhere to review. So, I realised you can only really do that on Apple Podcasts. But whichever platform you use, please subscribe and check out the videos I post to Twitter and Instagram – my account is andrewgold_ok. Next week, we’ll hear from Conservative peer – he’s actually a lord – Daniel Finkelstein. But now it’s Mary, and she’s having one of those days.
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Aug 24, 2020 • 56min
14: 2+2=5? - Anti-Woke Math Whizz James Lindsay Is Pissed Off
Follow the pod's social media for video teasers: https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok or https://www.instagram.com/andrewgold_ok/.
James Lindsay is a colleague of Helen Pluckrose, who was on the podcast just a few weeks ago. Together with Peter Boghossian, the group faked woke – or social justice – academic papers and got them published in prestigious journals. These included bogus ideas like that dogs engage in rape culture and that men could become less transphobic by inserting things up their back passage. The idea was to show that there is a bias in academia towards social justice ideas.
James has a doctorate in math(s) – there’s an S at the end the word, American listeners – and a background in physics. He also has a huge following on Twitter, and recently caused a storm by arguing that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. This may sound obvious, but his critics, including many respected academics have been suggesting it could also equal 5 – in a worrying echo of the kind of doublethink described in George Orwell’s 1984. James is suggesting that this is part of the problem with how woke people think, and how they’ll twist words and meaning to suit their agenda.
This week, James and Helen have a book coming out; it’s called Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity—and Why This Harms Everybody. Make sure to get hold of it.
The podcast does get a little mathematical early on, and if you listen closely, you can actually hear the moment my brain begins to melt, just as he talks about two concatenated ones. But we do start to move away from maths after a few minutes.
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Aug 17, 2020 • 49min
13: Jailed for teaching my dog a Nazi salute: Mark Meechan
Follow me on Twitter for short video highlights: https://twitter.com/AndrewGold_ok
On today’s show is Mark Meechan, known online as Count Dankula. In 2016, he made a YouTube video showing how he taught his girlfriend’s beloved pug Buddha to do a Nazi salute – a Sieg Heil – on his command. His command was Gas the Jews. The video quickly went viral, and Mark was arrested and charged with committing a hate crime. He spent time in jail and was fined; a fine he refused to pay.
As he’ll explain in more detail, Mark was fired from his job and pretty much unemployable by anyone who had Google. Which is obviously everyone. However, things have recently picked up for him; every time he is mentioned in the paper, his YouTube channel grows – and he now has over 100 million views. He also has 250,000 followers on Twitter, who enjoy his brand of shock humour much in line with the initial Hitler dog routine. They’re a strange bunch his followers – when he shared a photo promoting this podcast, many of them followed me and asked if I could send them photos of Mark’s penis – or if not – my own. I politely declined. I hope some of you newbies are here listening today and will stick around – they’re part of a strange online world in the dark corners of the web full of jokes and memes I don’t quite understand.
But it’s not just in the obscure recesses of computer-world where Mark has made his mark. He is often talked about by famous mainstream advocates of free speech, including Ricky Gervais, who brought him up once again just this week.
I remember when I heard about the dog joke at the time, I imagined a horrible neo-Nazi, so had little sympathy for him, even if it seemed strange he was being arrested for a joke. Meechan was later in the UK Independence Party, or UKIP, and had some association with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson and American far-right radio presenter Alex Jones, all of which further convinced me his apple was of the bad variety. He refutes this image, and says most of his friends are on the Left; he was nice enough to give me his time to do this podcast, so the least I could do was give him a fair hearing with an open mind.
We have a bit of a chat about free speech, humour, offence and where these things collide. Should any joke be illegal? Mark certainly doesn’t think so, and I’m inclined to agree. It seems pretty crazy how the whole thing blew up, and a waste of everyone’s time and money. It can set some bad precedents…that doesn’t mean I give Mark a free pass. Just as I believe strongly in his right to make those jokes, I value my right to criticise them and say they’re in bad taste. For example, a recent video he posted mocking the Beirut explosion might be particularly hurtful for people who’ve just lost loved ones. It may not be illegal, but I consider that worthy of criticism at the least. And he’s perfectly entitled to tell me he doesn’t care.
We do get distracted while talking about the Nazi pug incident, and end up waffling about free speech for a while, and come back to his arrest and jail time at the end. Which is fine, because you always listen to the end anyway. Don’t you.
Next week is a chat with another controversial American scholar James Lindsay, who has pretty much blown up Twitter by claiming that 2+2=4. In an Orwellian turn, hundreds of thousands of Left-Wing academics have been suggesting the equation actually equals 5, and we believe it’s 4 because of something to do with colonisation. But for now, we’re in Scotland with Count Dankula discussing whether jokes and fried mars bars are offensive.
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Aug 10, 2020 • 51min
12: Female Psychopath Interview: M.E. Thomas
Catch video clips on @andrewgold_ok on Twitter or Instagram!
This is one of my favourite topics ever, so you’re in for a treat. I’ve managed to get a real-life psychopath on the show – M. E. Thomas is the pseudonym of the writer of Confessions of a Psychopath. Having read Jon Ronson’s Psychopath Test a few years ago, and grown up on such films as Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho and later, No Country for Old Men and Nightcrawler, I became fascinated by them.
I guess those movies make you think of a psycho killer, qu’est-ce que c’est, but apparently most psychopaths or sociopaths – who are said to make up 1% of the population – aren’t that interested in murdering. They just totally lack empathy. In fact, I’m amazed to learn from M.E. or ‘me’ about just how little is known about them, and she presents some theories I’ve never heard.
Check the podcast twitter page for video trailers, which I always post there…M.E. is, however, a blurred figure behind a layer of Sellotape covering her webcam. Still, it’s worth a look, to see the fear in my eyes, if nothing else. There are indeed a couple of moments where I take some risks, but I think we get on OK, even if she wouldn’t care if I died.
Please make sure to write a little review – those push you up the Apple charts. And tell some friends to get listening. Next week, I’ve got Mark Meechan, the Scottish comedian who taught his dog to do a Hitler salute in reaction to the phrase ‘Do you wanna gas the Jews’. He was arrested, sparking a worldwide debate about free speech and the right to cause offence. Tricky subject – next week.
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Aug 3, 2020 • 48min
11: Modestep's Josh on Wiley and the cynical music biz
Firstly, let me just say I’m delighted to have Josh Friend from internationally acclaimed Modestep on the show. He’s actually an old friend of mine – and certainly the most famous of anyone I knew growing up, and an extremely talented guy – it’s a great podcast, as he really speaks his mind and doesn’t mince his words.
In the UK this week, a leading rapper known as the godfather of the grime sub-genre, Wiley (who Josh knows), went on an anti-Semitic tirade on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and wherever else he could get his message out. A tirade is being kind, as it was about as subtle as Mein Kampf; I don’t’ say that with hyperbole; the things he said had nothing to do with the typical criticism of Israel or Zionism, this was straight up, the Jews are slippery, the Jews are like the KKK, and the Jews need to be shot and killed. He called out for the ‘top Jew’ to come and speak with him, and he very nearly came on this podcast – but didn’t turn up to the Zoom meeting.
Josh Friend is a musician, the main man of Modestep – look them up, you’ll know their tunes, really eclectic and original stuff. He has worked with Wiley, he knows him, he knows his character - and it’s a fairly damning report. But what’s fascinating about talking with him, is we get a look into where Wiley’s racism comes from. I'm upset this is overshadowing what would have been an interview more focussed on the music industry and Josh’s place within it, and the amazing work Modestep have done. But, I also feel lucky i was able to catch up with him at this time.
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