Leading Saints Podcast

Gary Laney, CEO of Success Masters, discusses his book on strategic influence, mentorship from Stephen Covey and President Monson, the importance of finishing tasks, and being a covenant leader.

In this episode, licensed therapist Sheldon and YSA Xochitle discuss approaching mental health issues with YSAs.  At the Table is a new podcast series produced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Listen and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find podcasts. Please give us your feedback about this episode by filling out this short questionnaire:  https://research.churchofjesuschrist.org/jfe/form/SV_7Q9IfqfY2fzvmcK

Previously U.S. Senate legal counsel and general counsel of Brigham Young University, Judge Thomas B. Griffith was appointed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit by President George W. Bush. President Biden later appointed him to the President’s Commission on the Supreme Court. Judge Griffith authored Lost, Not Stolen: The Conservative Case that Biden Won and Trump Lost the 2020 Presidential Election along with former federal appeals court judges Michael McConnell and Michael Luttig. He is currently a lecturer on law at Harvard and Stanford, a fellow at the Wheatley Institute at BYU, and active in rule-of-law projects in Central and Eastern Europe. Inspired by the scholarship of Elder Matthew Holland, Judge Griffith devotes a great deal of his time to speaking and writing about the need to emphasize “civic charity” in American political life. After graduating from BYU and before beginning his legal studies at the University of Virginia, Judge Griffith was a full-time employee of the Church Educational System, directing Seminary and Institute of Religion programs in the Baltimore, Maryland area. His service in the Church includes a full-time mission to southern Africa, bishop of a family ward in northern Virginia, president of a campus stake at BYU, and teaching young single adult Institute. He also serves on the advisory board of the Faith Matters Foundation. A convert to the Church, Brother Griffith married fellow-convert Susan Stell Griffith. They live in rural northern Virginia and are the parents of six and the grandparents of eleven. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces the episode and Thomas Griffith. 04:20 Thomas introduces himself and his professional and religious background. 07:00 Thomas’ conversion story 13:30 His first career was in the church education system. He later became a lawyer and judge. 15:00 Speaking at the BYU devotional and his popular talk, The Very Root of Christian Doctrine and his time as a stake president. Every talk and every lesson given in the stake needed to have a direct link to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 23:30 After one year of getting everyone in the stake to make the Atonement the main focus of every single talk and lesson they saw amazing results. The bishops reported back with excitement. 27:15 What it actually means to focus on and teach doctrine at church. 28:00 The most important thing that a bishop can do is put on a GREAT sacrament meeting! When Thomas was bishop he sat down with each speaker to discuss the topic and how to link it to the atonement. It was a lot of work but he focused on the details. 32:15 Where the idea and vision came from to focus more on Christ at church 35:45 The hard work that goes into establishing a culture and vision in our wards and stakes. They had to be persistent and repetitive with their messages. 38:00 Refocus the core message on Jesus and redemption so that people leave feeling uplifted and not bogged down. Speakers should be told that they aren’t there to call people to repentance. “Refresh” people’s hearts and make them feel encouraged and nourished. 43:45 Additional tips for making sacrament meeting great. Everything ought to flow out of the experience that we have partaking of the sacrament. You don’t just take it and then move on. 45:45 Thomas’ time as a judge 47:30 Lessons learned from being a judge that can also be applied to church leadership. We should also always use the counsel system and not make decisions alone. Decisions should be made through the process of discussion and disagreement. This is where revelation happens. 52:20 Thomas shares principles that he learned while serving as stake president at BYU. They wanted a pure religion community instead of the activities committee. Every ward was to form a partnership with a service provider and those would be the church activities. 58:10 You can’t do everything. You can’t emphasize everything in your ward and stake. Make 2 maybe 3 big changes and that’s it. 1:00:50 A leader is a servant. You develop a deep sense of love for others and you use your position to help them. Leadership is about washing people’s feet. Links BYU Speech: The Very Root of Christian Doctrine Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

In this episode, a YSA stake presidency and a bishop discuss what they have seen work best with listening to and working with YSAs.  At the Table is a new podcast series produced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Listen and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find podcasts. Please give us your feedback about this episode by filling out this short questionnaire:  https://research.churchofjesuschrist.org/jfe/form/SV_6R51KSPKmVd17VQ Highlights 1:30 Introduction to the speakers 1:50 Thoughts and impressions on a new document released by the church, Strengthening the YSA. 5:00 The youth give their perspective on the church’s initiative to come out with new material for their growth and leadership skills. 8:10 We need to increase the collaboration between the YSA leadership and the geographic wards and stakes. 10:20 YSA should be included in stake and ward council. The key principle is for leaders to listen to YSA members and learn to collaborate with them and understand what they need. 11:50 President Bigelow shares his experience from when he was a bishop over a YSA ward. He shares what they would do in ward council and how they planned together. 14:30 Bishop Wesel shares his experience as a bishop over a family ward and how he has worked with the young single adults in his ward. 16:00 President Po’ahu shares his thoughts on strengthening the young single adults, the power of counsel, and listening. 18:15 Adapting to the new changes the church put in place for the single adults and giving them more responsibility. The shift in the paradigm. 21:10 It’s very easy to overlook young single adults in the geographic wards. However, they are there and will be more willing to participate by leaders taking the time to listen to them and creating more space for them. 23:45 Building trust and collaborating with members of the YSA. It’s not su vs them. Age, single or married or what type of ward you are in shouldn’t separate us. 26:45 The way to empower and build capability in young single adults is to step back and support them. The members of the stake presidency are in more of an advisor role while the young single adults do the planning. 29:30 Bishop Wesel has found that sometimes the roles are flipped where the young single adults have played in the advisory role and helped him out in his calling. They helped him see things from their point of view. 33:15 The Lord’s pattern is to call who is ready. It’s not about age. This new initiative isn’t a new concept but God is trying to help us dial it in a little more. 34:30 Lift where you stand. You might be ready for a calling or more opportunities to serve but aren’t being called or ideas not implemented. Show that you are a ‘profitable servant.’ Do what you can now. Make an appointment with your bishop and tell him how you feel and want to serve. 44:00 Inspired questions for young single adults. Stop asking young single adults, who are you dating and when are you getting married? Try to start a conversation in a more meaningful way. Avoid questions focused on differences. 52:25 Aspects that build trust 57:15 Leaders share their final thoughts and ways to share and begin to implement this new initiative to strengthen the young single adults.

Guest Monte Holm shares his journey from farm worker to successful entrepreneur and church leader, discussing his conversion story, mission experiences, and leadership roles. He highlights the importance of love, obedience, hard work, and aligning personal vision with church leaders' vision in achieving success in life.

Anna Rast is a service missionary for the Disability Services division of the Priesthood and Family Department at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah. She loves serving as the stake disability specialist in the American Fork East Stake, and she previously had the honor of serving as the stake disability specialist for the Valencia California Stake. She lives with her wonderful husband, her two fantastic and brilliant children with autism, and her tiny dog, Daisy. Highlights 02:20 Anna shares her background as a service missionary at Church headquarters in the disability department. She is also the disability specialist for the American Fork East Stake. 03:15 Disability specialist is a new calling and most people don’t know about it because there aren’t many called. 04:10 Anna has two kids on the autism spectrum and that is how she got into disability work. She shares stories of them growing up with these issues. 09:20 The power of a disability specialist is to have an advocate and to make sure that there is a place for everybody. 11:10 There are five things that a disability specialist does They serve as a resource for ward leaders, stake leaders, families and individuals. Get to know and reach out to families that are touched with disabilities. Research all of the members’ disability-related questions and concerns. Identify meaningful ways to serve people with disabilities. Identify community resources to help church members. 14:40 Working with Primary-age children. The specialist can work with Primary leaders, do trainings, and classroom observations. The Church also has online trainings available. 19:00 Calling classroom helpers and working one on one with kids that might need a little extra help. 20:20 Other resources that are available. Facebook group – Disability Specialists The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is where people can ask questions and post scenarios. 22:00 Some needs are obvious to identify. Some wards might think they don’t have any disabilities but really there are always extra needs and struggles in every ward. Some families might need extra ministers. Some people might have a problem that isn’t diagnosed. 28:30 You don’t have to have a disability to work with the disability specialist. Maybe you have a temporary need that you need help with or a struggle that you need some extra support. 30:40 The number one thing that Anna sees that adults are struggling with is anxiety and depression. 33:00 We need the gifts and talents of each member. Every member needs a friend and a calling. Be prayerful on how someone with a disability can help and be included. Don’t just mark their name off the list. 35:50 The Church recently released some new guidelines for service animals. 37:00 Helping the elderly and people struggling. If you don’t have a disability specialist, ask for one! 39:50 There is a facilities manager for every building. So if you have someone with mobility issues you can contact the manager to fix mobility problems in the buildings and make them more accessible. Also think about what activities you are doing to include the needs of all the members. 42:10 How to find out if your stake has a disability specialist or not. 43:00 Ways to support families that are touched with disabilities. 47:40 Anybody can be a disability specialist. You don’t have to have any work experience or degree. You just have to be willing to serve. 48:30 Anna shares how her calling has blessed her and taught her. Links Handbook: Disability Specialist Calling Disability Resources Facebook: Disability Specialists – Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Policies and Guidelines Related to Disabilities To contact Anna, use our Contact Page and we will pass on your message Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Dr. Ben Erwin received his master’s degree from the University of Hawaii, and his PhD from Brigham Young University. His clinical specialties include marriage counseling, addictions and working with adolescents. Ben is currently the program manager for the Addiction Recovery Program for the Church and is also adjunct faculty for Utah Valley University’s Marriage and Family Therapy program. He has served as a member of the Utah Governor’s Behavioral Health Workgroup and a board member of the Salt Lake County Mayor’s Behavioral Health Advisory Council. He and his wife Sarah are the proud parents of five children. Highlights 03:40 Ben Erwin’s background. He’s a project manager for the Addiction Recovery Program (ARP) of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. He helps oversee the worldwide Addiction Recovery Program that the Church sponsors to help people find recovery through Christ. He has a varied educational background. Eventually he got a Masters degree and interned with Family Services. He has worked with Family Services ever since. He still meets with clients. 7:40 People ask Ben if it isn’t difficult to be a therapist and walk through difficult issues with clients. He does walk through darkness with clients, but they don’t stay there. He watches them grow and move towards the Savior. 9:30 There’s not a better program to help people find hope and healing than the Addiction Recovery Program. 10:00 History of the ARP. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded by two Christian men who were suffering from alcoholism. They turned to the Bible for teachings to help themselves in their recovery. 11:00 What are the most important doctrines and principles to help someone recover and repent from addiction? Ben believes it is “the twelve steps” [of the AA program or the Church’s ARP]. The twelve steps are the application of the principles. In the 1970’s and 1980’s, many church members were attending AA meetings and asked church leaders if they could have AA meetings at the church. That is where the Addiction Recovery Program was born. Last year, there were 400,000 “seats filled.” 14:20 Ben is contacted by church leaders across the world. One of the frequent questions they ask is “What kind of help can I get?” Ben first refers the leader to a local Family Services counselor, even before he suggests the Addiction Recovery Program. 15:30 A leader can reach out to a local Family Service counselor at any time with a question about helping a member. The counselor will, for free, counsel with the church leader to develop a plan to help the member. The counselor won’t tell the church leader what to do. But they will help the church leader see the issues from a therapeutic, social, or emotional point of view. 19:00 When a church leader is counseling with a member, the church leader may “prescribe” Family Services. However, even before referring the member to Family Services, the church leader can counsel with the Family Services counselor to help the church leader in their discussions with the member. Performing the consultation up-front avoids the disconnect and gives the church leader more ideas of what they can do as the spiritual minister. For example, when bishops consult with the Family Services counselor, it can help the bishop see the things the therapist can do that may be different from what the bishop can do. 22:20 There can be a misconception of what Family Services is. We frequently understand it as “the Church’s therapists.” Family Services’ primary mission is to assist leaders to assist members to develop emotional self-reliance and overcome obstacles to keeping covenants. Therapy is part of what Family Services does, but consultation with church leaders is the primary duty of Family Services. 25:00 Some leaders may not utilize Family Services because there is not a location near them. That’s fine. Even if the leader doesn’t use Family Services for therapy, the leader should be aware that Family Services is a resource available for consultation with the church leader to help talk through particular situations of members and to develop a plan to help the members. Family Services will also refer members to therapists in the local leader’s area who will support the members’ faith. 27:40 Many Family Services counselors are available via telehealth services. Even in places where there is not a local Family Services location, Family Services counselors may still be able to help, whether by telehealth options or by referring the leaders to local therapists. 29:10 The best way to contact Family Services is through CDOL (Church Directory of Organizations and Leaders). Select the “Stake” and “Associated Organizations” under “Welfare.” 31:30 The ARP is sponsored by local leaders. For a meeting to happen, a stake president has to request a meeting. Family Services administers the meeting. The ARP website includes a map of all the requested meetings. 32:30 Ben walks through website content describing ARP meetings. It takes a lot of courage to attend an ARP meeting. There’s typically a lot of shame associated with addictions. When you attend, you’ll be warmly greeted by the meeting facilitator who will ask for your first name. You will pray. The facilitator will read a confidentiality statement. Everyone commits to confidentiality. They will read from the guidebook describing the twelve steps. The meeting is opened up for sharing. No one is required to read or share. Many members who attend express surprise that they felt the Spirit of God in the meeting – they feel unworthy and broken. But they come away with a much different experience – support, love, and openness – than they expected. 40:30 The most effective way to learn about the program is to attend a meeting. Ben recommends that if you are going to attend to see how it works, don’t attend a meeting near your location. You don’t want to make a member in your congregation uncomfortable. 42:15 What is the process when a stake president requests an ARP meeting? The stake president calls Family Services and requests the meeting. Family Services will work with the stake president to identify individuals who may facilitate. Often, someone who has participated will be called to facilitate. Missionary couples who are already serving may be identified to run the meeting. Another couple in the stake may be called to facilitate the meeting. 44:45 A church leader may attend an ARP meeting with a member who is struggling. For example, a bishop may volunteer to go with the member, or may suggest an Elders Quorum president or Relief Society president attend with the member. If a member is uncomfortable attending a meeting, a bishop may offer to attend a meeting occurring at a distant location virtually with the member. If a member is uncomfortable even attending a meeting with a church leader, the ARP website has podcast episodes of recordings of actual meetings the member can listen to. Another resource on the ARP website is a set of videos of individuals who have participated in the ARP. 54:00 Another resource on the ARP website is the Guide. A leader can select the PDF guidebook and walk through the guidebook with the member. 55:10 What do you say to an individual who has not had a positive experience with ARP meetings in their area? Ben: My job isn’t to try to convince someone to use a particular tool. It is to help them to find a different tool to help them. Most people have a positive experience with ARP. But if they don’t, look at different resources. Research shows that twelve-step programs are the most effective way to address addiction. If this one isn’t working, look at another one. Ben has a friend who went to ARP but didn’t love it. So he goes to AA instead, and he loves it. 58:15 Sometimes when someone comes to receive addiction support, they need medical assistance. A twelve-step program is a great first step, but we should know when someone needs a higher level of care. A member with an opioid addiction, for example, may not be able to stop without medical supervision. This is something that would arise as a leader consults with a Family Services counselor. A detox facility may stabilize the member. Then a twelve-step program can help them learn the tools to help them stay sober. 1:01:30 Ben has observed that more and more women are being caught up in pornography addictions. They tend to feel even more shame than men, since in their minds, they often believe that pornography was supposed to be something that only men were supposed to struggle with. There are a lot of online meetings that women can attend, even if there’s not one close to them. 1:03:20 Research shows that the most significant factor associated with a treatment outcome for mental health issues is the individual, not the model used or the therapist used. We find help and assistance through programs and therapists, but reliance on the Savior is how we obtain lasting change. As we turn to the Savior, he will give us strength and help us change. We find assistance through programs and therapists, but the most important thing is Jesus Christ. 1:06:40 Sometimes as we are helping those facing addictions, we forget their spouse and family. Addiction impacts both an individual and their family. There’s a spouse and family support group for spouses and families of individuals facing addiction challenges. The spouse and family support program answers the question: what are the most important principles of the gospel to bring about personal peace and healing irrespective of whether my loved one gets better? 1:10:30 On the Church’s website, churchofjesuschrist.org, is a section called “Counseling Resources”. It is divided into topics. (See link below. In the Gospel Library, navigate through Libraries -> Gospel Library -> Handbooks and Callings -> Ward or Branch Callings -> Bishopric -> Bishop -> Resources -> Counseling Resources) 1:12:40 What is the guidance regarding ARP meetings and youth? The ARP is not for youth. Most youth are not addicted. When a parent learns their child has viewed pornography, their first thought is, “My child is addicted.” But that is not true. Most youth are not addicted. The two best things Ben has observed parents do is: (1) restricting access of the youth to electronics and (2) having youth check in with parents. 1:15:20 What is the dynamic around sponsors? Recently ARP has formalized sponsors in ARP. Everyone is encouraged to find a sponsor. A member who knows their sponsor has been through the same things is more likely to reach out to the sponsor, where they may hesitate to reach out to a church leader. A church leader can become aware of members in their ward and stake who they may be able to refer members to as sponsors. 1:18:45 The twelfth step is: After having an awakening through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I practice these principles in all I do and share this message with others. Most people in recovery find that it helps to share the message with others. It doesn’t have to be publicly in a sacrament meeting, but it can be personally with others. 1:20:00 Some content associated with addiction recovery is found in the Gospel Library App and online under “Life Helps” Links Register for the Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Counseling Resources page Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Max Hall is a former quarterback for Brigham Young University and played in the National Football League for the Arizona Cardinals and in the Canadian Football League for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Over the course of his football career, Max sustained multiple concussions as well as other injuries that led to an opioid addiction. Today he is the varsity offensive coordinator at American Leadership Academy High School in Queen Creek, Arizona, and co-owner of Victory Recovery, an addiction recovery program. Highlights 2:15 Max Hall played as a quarterback at BYU. Later he played professionally for the Arizona Cardinals. 6:20 Max felt his faith was strong and his testimony grew at BYU. But he began to be consumed by his identity as a football player. He began to lose focus on his callings as a husband, father, and in the Church. Football became his focus and his identity. In his first few games, he was knocked out twice with concussions. A few games later he dislocated his shoulder. Dislocating his shoulder changed him. He felt that his NFL career was over, and consequently that he was losing his identity. At the same time, he was given a 30-day supply of percocet to manage the pain of the shoulder injury. The Percocet made him feel better. He took the 30-day supply in three days. The drug hooked him, and he became physically addicted. 9:30 Max started losing focus on everything other than the drugs. The drugs became more important than recovery and than being a good father. 10:15 Max had previously tried Percocet in high school. He gave in to peer pressure and tried some with friends. It was an amazing feeling. In high school, he didn’t get addicted to it. He’d try it on weekends for fun. After his shoulder injury, when he finished his 30-day supply in three days, he called up his high school friend, who supplied him with oxycontin. 12:00 The following year, Max played again. But he dislocated his shoulder again. His addiction continued to grow. He turned to other drugs – heroin, cocaine, meth. Over the next five years, Max did have times of sobriety. He failed an NFL drug test, and a doctor put him on suboxone. Max started coaching at BYU, and it started out well. But come spring, he started using again. He played for two years in the CFL, where he didn’t use hard drugs. When he came back to Arizona, he had a bad relapse. He was arrested for possessing cocaine. When it hit the press, he considered suicide. His mom called him, he entered rehab, and he started on his path to sobriety. 17:45 Addiction is hell. It takes your soul. It makes you a different person. He was a manipulator, a liar, and a cheater. He would do anything he had to do to keep his addiction going. It takes the soul of the addict and breaks the hearts of those around them. In rehab, he was wondering how he could ever fix everything that was wrong. He’s been fortunate to have a strong support system. 18:40 Max does EDD’s (every day drills) to keep himself right. He gets up with the alarm, goes to the gym, does meditation, and reads a book to set himself up for the day. He’s been doing it for over 8 years. Without a program and discipline, it won’t work. A lot of recovery is the things you do on a daily basis to make yourself a better person. 20:30 During his addiction, Max could not look up. He had lost his connection with the Spirit and with Christ. It got to the point where he was mad at God – “Why did this happen to me?” It took a lot of searching and prayer and relying on the Savior to regain that connection. Without Christ, Max wouldn’t be where he is at. 22:00 Max considers getting arrested to be a blessing. His secret was out. He wanted to die. He wanted to disappear. But he had to make a decision to own it and to fight. Max’s wife told him that if he was willing to fight, she would fight alongside him. 23:00 Max’s wife learned of his addiction about a year into it. He lied about being sober and he convinced her to keep it quiet. But she learned about addiction and codependency and sought counseling for herself to help her through it. Without his wife, Max doesn’t think he would be where he is. When a church leader is working with an addict, they may also take time with the addict’s spouse. 24:45 Church leaders play a big role, but need to understand a few things. They may not know how to handle the addict and the spouse. When someone is deep in addiction, we focus on the spiritual side and get them professional help. Help and counsel with the spouses separately. 26:30 Max would avoid church so people would not notice what was wrong with him. Addicts are good at telling people what they want to hear to get them off their backs so the addicts can continue feeding their addiction. They will downplay the severity of what’s going on. 28:45 Relying on Christ is an important part of the process. The first step of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous, or ADR Addiction Recovery) is admitting you have a problem and need help. A subsequent step is turning to a higher power for help. Addicts need to understand they cannot heal themselves. They need help. They need hope. At the same time, they will not be able to pray their addiction away. After thirty days, as the fog of drugs clears, the triggers and cravings come back. Many addicts relapse after thirty days. That’s why they need professional help to get through it. 31:30 Max’s recovery: First, he had to go to a detox. Then, he went to a rehab center. At the rehab center, he was still going through physical withdrawals. The detox and withdrawals was the worst thing he has been through in his life. Then he had to recondition himself and prepare himself for moving forward. When he got home, he thought he was doing great. But after a couple of weeks, he fell into depression. He couldn’t get off the couch. After about a year, his wife confronted him – you said you were going to fight. This isn’t fighting. So he regrouped. He realized he needed a team. He needed people around him. He got a sponsor. He talked to family and friends and told them he would check in with them. 33:45 You need a team. Sometimes people find the team by going to addiction recovery meetings. Other people find another team. Either way, you need a team. 36:50 Initially, Max had a sponsor, another NFL player, who had been through his own injuries and addictions. He would call Max on his BS. Max didn’t like it at first, but he was willing to improve. Now Max runs a clinic and has a podcast. He has surrounded himself with people he can turn to if he needs to, and he is giving back to others who are addicted. 38:10 Connection is a key to recovery. Max feels like we don’t foster connection well in our Church, particularly for addicts. We tend to shun those who are addicts. Addicts are judged. We need to be more compassionate with those who struggle. We need to change the culture in the Church. We’re afraid that if people find out, we’ll be judged. One of Satan’s most powerful tools is addiction. 43:10 Max tore his Achilles tendon at the BYU Alumni game. He went through surgery without pain pills. He told the doctors not to write him a prescription for pain medication. When he got home, his phone dinged, telling him his prescription for pain meds was ready. No one but Max knew about it. The addict in him thought about letting the prescription sit there. But then he asked his wife to cancel the prescription. 47:50 Max’s rehab center is called Victory Recovery. It is an intensive rehab center. It uses many of the twelve-step principles. Max wants to be a resource for church leaders. He wants church leaders to be able to send addicts to Victory Recovery. 50:00 It’s important to discuss addiction. Leaders need to know about it and do research to be able to teach our kids. Max sat down with his kids and told them about his experience and warned them about addiction. When kids are around 10 or 11, we need to sit down with our kids and talk to them about the dangers of addiction. 52:20 Growing up, we see the Atonement as “make a mistake, pray for forgiveness, be forgiven.” The Atonement is more than that. It works through your whole body. It changes who you are as a person. It’s daily conversations with Christ. Links Register for the Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Kevin Asher is the bishop of a young single adult ward in Far West, Missouri, and has previously served in an elders quorum presidency, Young Men presidency, as a ward mission leader, and as a counselor in a YSA bishopric. He holds a degree in Psychology from Menlo College, studied to be a Catholic priest in the Capuchin Franciscan Order, and has has traveled to numerous countries exploring culinary traditions and cultures. He and his wife own a business—The Asher Family Table—cultivating connection through food and experiences. Kevin won the Silos Baking Competition Holiday Cookie Episode in 2022. Highlights 02:40 Introduction to Kevin, the YSA Bishop and chef 07:40 Getting called as a YSA bishop. He refers to himself as Jesus Christ’s nurse. Christ is the true physician. 13:30 The Savior is the perfect example of leadership. Being a servant leader. “To be a good leader is to be an even better servant.” 17:20 How do you offer servant leadership? Remember that it’s not about you, it’s about them. It’s their journey. 19:40 Kevin shares a personal story on helping someone come to Christ. Questions to ask yourself when trying to help someone: What key can I be for this individual? What is binding them up or constricting them? How can I be a key for them to unlock that lock to feel the Savior more? 24:00 Stop talking at people. Stop going in as a fixer. That’s not your job. What questions can we ask people to figure out where people are at? 27:20 Discovering God is at the root of all questions 28:20 Be careful with why questions because they invite the adversary. Ask questions with a sincere heart. 29:30 Compassion is sitting down with any person from any background and seeing them as a child of God. Even within our faith we all have different views and perspectives and we have to show compassion. 33:10 From Catholic to LDS Bishop. Kevin shares some of his spiritual journey. Links The Asher Family Table Silos Baking Competition: Holiday Edition Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Joseph Grenny is a lifelong student of social science whose writings are references in major universities around the world. He is a New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including leadership, influence and communication classics Crucial Conversations, Influencer, Crucial Accountability, and Change Anything. His books are available in over 30 languages and have sold over six million copies. Joseph is a co-founder and current board chair of Unitus Labs, an international nonprofit that has helped over 15 million of the world’s poorest to move toward self reliance. In 2015 he and his colleagues started The Other Side Academy, a 2.5-year school for those with long histories of crime, addiction and homelessness. The Other Side Academy is free, requiring only a desire to change for admission. In April 2021, Joseph and the leaders of The Other Side Academy announced their intention to build The Other Side Village, a 400-home community for those who are chronically homeless based on principles of self-reliance and peer accountability. Joseph is married to the former Celia Marie Waldron. They have six children and eight grandchildren and live in Salt Lake City. Links Moroni’s War on Addiction: A Scripture Hero’s Strategy to Win Today’s Battle for Souls The Other Side Academy Are we Losing?: A Gospel Perspective on Imperfect Families Jacob’s Answer to Parental Despair: The Olive Tree and the Antichrist Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Highlights 02:45 Introduction to Joseph Grenny 04:20 Moroni’s war on addiction 06:10 Joseph’s work with addicts. Satan makes addiction look so attractive that all of us are falling to it. 10:30 The definition of addiction and modern addictions that interrupt our ability to feel the Spirit 11:30 The word of wisdom isn’t so much about substances but the evil designs of conspiring people. People that manipulate us in order to invade our agency. 13:00 Joseph’s son Seth’s story. His addiction to heroin. 19:50 Even with Joseph’s background he couldn’t help his son with his addiction. He couldn’t understand it. He turned to the scriptures and learned profound truths from Moroni. Saving Principles from Joseph’s book, Moroni’s War on Addiction. 26:30 Satan wins when you hide the problem so rally your troops. 32:00 It’s ok to make mistakes. You are a small-s savior not the capital-S Savior. 35:10 Victory has nothing to do with the strength of the enemy. 40:40 The best way to motivate the rebellious is to get out of God’s way. 50:00 You are commanded to feel joy while the war is raging. You do this by looking for tender mercies and practicing gratitude. 54:10 A lot of us at one point heard the phrase, “No good parent is ever happier than their least happy child.” If this is true then Heavenly Father must have a miserable life. The truth is that Heavenly Father is the happiest person. 1:01:00 Joseph shares his final testimony and how his son is doing now. He now works with hundreds of addicts at The Other Side Academy. 1:05:10 You never know how many attempts it’s going to take to overcome an addiction. There is no key. As a loved one you just have to surrender and let them deal with the consequences. It’s not your responsibility to fix or save someone. 1:08:40 What do people need from their ward or bishop that are going through addiction? 1:10:10 Showing up authentically. “I’ve sat in far too many priesthood meetings where we’re talking about abstract concepts when people are dealing with concrete problems in the room…” 1:11:10 A lot of rehabs just don’t work. The Other Side Academy isn’t your typical rehab. It’s a 2-year program, not just a 30-, 60-, or 90-day program. It’s a long-term program for long-term problems. 1:14:14 Parents of a teenage addict. What is the approach there? The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.