

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Legal Talk Network
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 20, 2025 • 33min
The Sandwich Is Mightier Than The Sword
Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter.
-----
The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place to tear down Obergefell.

Aug 13, 2025 • 31min
Missing: Biglaw's Summer Bonus Matches
Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in.
There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is.
Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the lateral market -- all because of a little thing called due diligence.

Aug 6, 2025 • 30min
The Bar Exam Death Drive Becomes Dangerously Literal
And Coldplay and pierogis.
-----
A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam. Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistakes expose the rotten incentives of this stupid, unnecessary test. The Coldplay jumbotron affair sparks litigation rumors... which might be the only idea worse than taking your affair to a concert. And Alan Dershowitz is very angry that no one will sell him a pierogi.

8 snips
Jul 30, 2025 • 33min
Lawyers Getting Really High On AI Hallucinations
This week in the legal world, a federal judge withdrew a ruling because of fake citations, raising eyebrows about AI accuracy. One partner got fired for inventing a case, while another firm faced serious repercussions from AI missteps. The absurdity didn’t stop there, with a judge hilariously pointing out a second fake citation in an apology for a previous one. Meanwhile, the delayed start for new associates at a Biglaw firm added to the uncertainty in legal hiring, leaving many in limbo about their futures.

Jul 16, 2025 • 38min
Who Knew Biting Other Lawyers Was Frowned Upon?
Lots to chew on this week.
-----
Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm. Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter. A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public shaming? There's not another readily accessible disincentive. Finally, we address the gnashing of teeth in conservative media ecosphere over Superman being an immigrant and the knots they're willing to tie themselves into in order to avoid the obvious.

Jul 9, 2025 • 41min
The Hallucinations Are Winning
Dive into the shifting landscape of law firm mergers as mid-sized firms face new pressures. Discover the alarming rise of AI-generated misinformation, with a judge's controversial blessing of a ruling based on fictitious cases. The Chief Justice's indifference to substantive criticism raises eyebrows. From humorous holiday anecdotes to serious discussions about law firm talent retention, this insightful dialogue balances lightheartedness and critical legal analysis.

Jul 2, 2025 • 38min
Supreme Court A Hot Mess
The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense.
-----
Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints. But at least they whined and took swipes at each other over it! Meanwhile, Justice Sonia Sotomayor figured out that if the majority wants to hide their rulings, the dissent can characterize them on their own. Also, the University of Florida Law School gave a top prize to a paper advocating a Whites-Only Constitution. The professor? Trump-appointed federal judge. The school's effort to explain itself left a lot to be desired.

Jun 25, 2025 • 34min
You Catch More Judges With 'Honey' Than With Vinegar
And the Supreme Court has a wild one.
-----
Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down, and Sam Alito using his concurrence to complain that the transgender care ban is an act of discrimination... and the he wants the Court to be more proud of it. And Vault put out its law firm prestige rankings. Hopefully nothing went down immediately after their survey that radically changed how people perceive the firms!

Jun 18, 2025 • 34min
The Jerkstore Called, They're Not Running Out Of Lawyers
Also, the role of bar associations in 2025.
-----
According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks. Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout, but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administration and Pam Bondi's brother never convinced the members that he'd be able to do that. In fact, the right-wing fear of strong bar associations has gotten so serious that the Florida supreme court actively kneecapped their state bar. And we talk about attending David Lat's Original Jurisdiction party, which you should also be reading.

Jun 11, 2025 • 33min
So Long And Thanks For All The Bonuses
Caving law firms experience exodus.
-----
Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at what point does a hollowed out litigation department start to impact the firm as a whole? Harvard Law Review found itself harassed by the government and it looks like the reason might be a snitch burrowed into the White House. And the one-track partnership model took more hits with Ropes & Gray and Debevoise agreeing to add non-equity tiers.


