Patterns Podcast

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Digital products no longer exist as standalone apps. They live inside complex ecosystems of interfaces, AI systems, legacy infrastructure, and workflows that all have to work together. In this episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl talks with product design leader Andi Rusu about what it takes to design reliable digital experiences in environments where multiple systems—and increasingly AI—are shaping how products behave.Drawing on experience at Disney, Sonos, Axon, and Microsoft, Andi explains why trust is becoming the central design challenge in modern product development. As AI becomes embedded in digital products, the job of design expands beyond crafting interfaces to shaping how complex systems behave, how decisions are made, and how users understand what’s happening behind the scenes. The conversation explores how designers can balance abstraction and transparency, when friction actually improves the experience, and why human judgment still plays a critical role in building trustworthy AI-powered products.We’ll explore:Why modern digital products behave more like ecosystems than individual apps, and how fragmentation across systems creates new design challenges for product teamsHow AI is becoming a new layer inside product development, influencing how workflows, decisions, and automation shape the user experienceWhy trust becomes harder to maintain in AI-driven products, especially when systems make decisions users cannot see or easily understandWhy human judgment still matters in AI-powered design, and how designers balance abstraction, transparency, and intentional friction to create reliable user experiencesView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAndi Rusu is a product design and research leader focused on creating user-centered experiences across complex product ecosystems. He has led design teams and initiatives at Disney, Axon, Sonos, Microsoft, and Deloitte, helping organizations deliver impactful digital products at scale. He has also taught experience design at Cornish College of the Arts, the University of Washington, and the School of Visual Concepts.HosttChris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approachSponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.The Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines merger came with physical and regulatory deadlines that dictated an inflexible 10-month delivery window for digital and design work. With the timeline tied to real-world change, combined design, product, and engineering teams had to build and ship alongside a transformation that was already in motion.Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford and Forrest Akemann about what it took to deliver a multi-brand experience under that pressure, while respecting the long histories and cultural significance of two iconic airline brands. From foundational decisions around color, typography, and tokens to close collaboration across teams, this conversation offers a realistic look at how systems work gets done when speed is non-negotiable and the stakes are real.We'll explore:What changes when deadlines are tied to physical and regulatory reality?Why is merger-driven multi-brand work harder than planned multi-brand?How do shared foundations like color, typography, and tokens enable teams to move faster together?View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestNoelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.Forrest Akemann is a design systems lead at Hawaiian Airlines, where he has worked since 2019 across product design and design systems. He played a key role in building Hawaiian’s design system and later helped lead the system work through the Alaska–Hawaiian merger, focusing on multi-brand foundations, theming, and system adoption.HosttChris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approachSponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In the first episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl sits down with Dave Brown, design leader at Qualtrics, to explore what modern systems thinking looks like in an AI-driven product landscape. Moving beyond traditional notions of software design, the conversation reframes product creation as a shift from a single golden path toward a world where every experience is effectively an edge case. Together, they unpack why context, not features, is becoming the primary design material and how AI is forcing teams to rethink how systems are structured, constrained, and evolved.Drawing on his experience leading AI and ML initiatives at AWS and now at Qualtrics, Dave explores how designers and builders can shape better outcomes by designing for context, learning loops, and adaptability. The discussion spans designing for AI versus designing with AI, the rise of compound engineering, and the collapse of rigid boundaries between design, product, and engineering. Rather than shipping static features, the future points toward systems that learn continuously, respond in real time, and improve through every interaction.Key takeawaysContext is the core design challenge of 2026, shaping how AI systems behave, adapt, and deliver value.Product systems are moving from golden paths to infinite edge cases, driven by personalization and real-time decision making.Designing for AI means creating learning loops, where systems improve through continuous feedback rather than static rules.Compound engineering reframes software creation around systems that get smarter over time, collapsing traditional role boundaries.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestDave Brown is a design leader at Qualtrics, where he focuses on AI initiatives and the evolution of the company’s design system. Previously, he spent nearly a decade at Amazon, including six years leading design for AI and machine learning services at AWS. His work centers on building adaptive, scalable product systems, with a particular interest in context, learning loops, and how teams can design systems that get smarter over time.HostChris Stroll is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approach

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.As AI compresses the distance between idea and execution, the abstractions that once made design tools necessary are becoming points of friction. In this conversation, Knapsack leaders Chris Strahl, Evan Lovely, and Robin Cannon make the case that the future of digital production starts in the medium products actually ship in, code. They unpack why design systems are infrastructure, not artifacts, how context becomes the critical input for enterprise AI, and why creating directly in code unlocks faster iteration with higher fidelity. This shift changes who gets to create, how teams work together, and what it means to scale ideas instead of just processes.In this episode, you’ll hear about:AI as an enabler of human creativity, not a replacementWhy prototype-first workflows are breaking downHow the Intelligent Product Engine supports real product creationWhat it looks like for designers, developers, and product teams to build, refine, and ship togetherView the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestEvan Lovely is the co-founder and CTO of KnapsackRobin Cannon is the Head of Product at KnapsackHostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Anna Thielke, Founder and CEO of Mantis & Company, is a disability advocate with a rich background in inclusive design. In their chat, she explains how integrating accessibility into design systems helps organizations adopt inclusive practices seamlessly. Anna emphasizes the importance of having disabled representation on teams to shape standards that truly reflect diverse needs. They also discuss the role of AI in enhancing accessibility and the ongoing challenges in implementing these essential practices in large organizations.

In this discussion, Noelle Lansford, founder of Shep and an expert in design systems, emphasizes why perfection in design shouldn't overshadow business needs. She shares her insights on the importance of relational alignment between design, engineering, and product teams, warning against the pitfalls of chasing an unattainable ideal. Noelle also explores how AI can accelerate design processes, the necessity of a multidisciplinary approach, and how focusing on business value ultimately leads to more effective design systems.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In this episode, Chris Strahl talks with Elyse Holladay—staff design engineer at Color Health and host of On Theme—about the evolution of design systems and how AI is reshaping the way we think about abstraction, collaboration, and contribution. They explore what it means to maintain relevance in a landscape where LLMs increasingly influence product development, and reflect on whether design systems are still for people—or for machines. Elyse shares a clear-eyed yet optimistic take on how AI can enhance, rather than replace, the work of design system practitioners.Key Points:Design systems are shifting focus from components to solving collaboration and workflow problems.AI isn’t replacing systems—it’s changing how they’re used and what they need to support.Smaller teams can move faster by focusing on what’s most valuable, not doing everything.Documentation is evolving to prioritize practical guidance over polished presentations.Design systems are becoming infrastructure for both humans and AI.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestElyse Holladay (she/her) is a long-time Design Systems practitioner and speaker, currently the Staff Design Engineer for Color Health's Continuum Design System. She was tapped to start the first Design System team for Indeed, has taught hundreds of hours of technical training content, and has been invited to speak at well-known industry events such as Clarity Conference, CSSConf Berlin, and Frontend Design Conference. She is also the host of On Theme: Design Systems in Depth. She's a technical generalist, off-the-charts extrovert, avid reader, and expat Texan with an armadillo tattoo.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Steve Dodier-Lazaro, a freelance software engineer specializing in design systems, dives into the foundational role of design systems in digital product creation. He stresses that viewing design systems as dependencies rather than deliverables can enhance collaboration. The discussion highlights the intersection of AI with design and engineering, indicating its potential to streamline workflows. Additionally, Steve shares insights on the evolution of version control and the necessity for open-source collaboration to foster innovation in digital production.

Catherine Dubut, Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, brings a wealth of experience in reshaping digital ecosystems. She discusses the monumental task of unifying over 80 legacy sites into a cohesive design system. Catherine highlights the nuances of designing for diverse fleet users and the importance of cross-team collaboration. She shares insights on using micro frontends to tackle technological challenges and emphasizes how modernizing Ford Pro not only enhances design efficiency but also aligns development across global markets.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.The design token nerds are taking over the pod! In this episode, guest host Christopher Bloom sits down with Garth Braithwaite, Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, for a deep dive into the inner workings of Spectrum’s design tokens. Garth shares how Adobe manages the complexity of scaling a multi-platform design system, and how thoughtful collaboration across teams builds real value for users.They get into the weeds on cross-team communication, naming conventions, accessibility, versioning, and Garth’s own front-end manifesto. If you’re building, scaling, or just geeking out over design tokens—this one’s pure gold.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestGarth Braithwaite is a Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, where he plays a key role in maintaining the Spectrum design system. With a background in both design and engineering, Garth brings a unique perspective to scaling design systems and improving workflows across teams.HostChristopher Bloom is a Principal Front-end Engineer at Knapsack. He's a design system nerd, avid mountain biker, and all-around ball of insight and energy.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the digital production platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.