Leadership Under Fire

Our guest today is FDNY Lieutenant Mike O’Connell, a 10-year member of the Department. Before being promoted, he served as a firefighter with Engine 202 and Ladder 102 in Brooklyn. Mike is a graduate of St. John’s University and is a member of both the MPI and Leadership Under Fire teams.

This episode is hosted by Jim McNamara. For those tuning in for the first time, Jim is a senior Firefighter at the FDNY and serves as a Human Performance Advisor for Leadership Under Fire. He’s also the principal author of the Leadership Under Fire Senior Man’s Performance Journal. Bob Athanas is our guest in this episode. Bob recently retired after 37 years of service with the FDNY. Bob grew up in Southbridge, MA, and served as a paid firefighter there from 1976-1983. He moved to Brooklyn, New York, in 1983 and served four years as an FDNY fire alarm dispatcher in the Brooklyn Central Office and later the CADO Unit. Bob was appointed as a FDNY firefighter in 1987. He transferred to Rescue 3 in February of 1991 where he would spend the next 29 years of his career. Bob also served as an adjunct instructor at the FDNY Fire Academy and the lead instructor for thermal imager training for many FDNY training programs. He also taught at the FDNY Special Operations Command Technical Rescue School and helped develop the FDNY SOC Advanced Firefighter Rescue Training program. Bob was also a member of the Urban Search and Rescue New York Task Force 1.

In this episode, we revisit a conversation between Patti Murphy and FDNY Lt Matt Connor covering the Equitable Building fire on January 9th, 1912.  This event tested the courage and skill of the FDNY in some of the most extreme conditions.  The 10-story building at 120 Broadway in Lower Manhattan was considered “fireproof.” In reality, it was cast iron, full of combustible materials, and lacked automatic fire protection. A discarded match in the basement sparked a fire that quickly spread through open elevator shafts and stairways. FDNY members battled frigid temperatures, high winds, and ice. Six people lost their lives, including Battalion Chief William J. Walsh, who was killed when part of the building collapsed. Despite the danger, firefighters performed several dramatic rescues. The fire led to significant reforms in firefighting, from zoning resolutions and high-pressure hydrants to operational changes. Most notably, it inspired the creation of Rescue Company 1 in March 1915, which quickly fielded Draeger smoke helmets—providing the first rescue company in the United States with a breathing apparatus. The Equitable Building was rebuilt with a steel frame, completed in 1915, and became the largest office building in the world by floor area for a time. Over the past century, it has housed countless commercial tenants, standing as a testament to American resilience and ingenuity. In just a few weeks, FDNY members will return to the Equitable Building for an exercise testing next-generation Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus. Ascending from the lobby to the upper floors in full gear and on air, they’ll connect the storied past of the FDNY with the fire service’s readiness for the future.  This episode originally aired January 13th,  2022. 

Since its formal inception more than a decade ago, the LUF Team has championed professional reading as a cornerstone of leader development. LUF believes that a close study of history’s most accomplished, mission-oriented leaders reveals a common thread: a deep engagement with literature and disciplined professional reading. In 2022, LUF launched its inaugural book club. Since then, LUF’s online book clubs have served as a conduit for meaningful discourse, reflection, and critical thought across the profession. This episode is Part 2 of Senior Mentor Jim Roussell’s exploration of Nassim Nicholas Taleb’s The Black Swan, recorded during one of these book club discussions. Part 1 originally aired on August 21, 2024. In this continuation, Jim offers valuable insight into the leadership traits and organizational practices that enable mission-oriented leaders and units to adapt, endure, and succeed amid unpredictable and improbable events.

Lt Chris Horgan is a member of the FDNY, currently assigned to Ladder 20 in the SoHo neighborhood of Manhattan. He is a 20-year veteran of the department and previously served with Engine 84 and Ladder 34 in Washington Heights. In addition to his operational duties, Lt. Horgan has recently assumed a leadership role in the FDNY’s Mental Performance Initiative. He is a graduate of Villanova University and is an avid baseball player and lifelong fan of the game. Lt. Horgan resides in Rockland County with his wife.

Mike Rudasill serves as a Battalion Chief with the Baltimore City Fire Department (BCFD), assigned to the 3rd Battalion in West Baltimore. He joined the ranks of the BCFD in 1998 and has served in a variety of operational and leadership roles throughout his career, including Firefighter with Rescue Company 1, Lieutenant with Truck Company 2, and Captain with Engine Company 8. He was promoted to Battalion Chief in 2010. Chief Rudasill is a former United States Marine and holds a bachelor’s degree in Fire Science and Organizational Leadership from Waldorf University, as well as a Master of Public Administration from the University of Baltimore’s School of Public Policy. In addition to his operational responsibilities, Chief Rudasill serves as the Program Manager for the BCFD Mental Performance Initiative and oversees the development program for Baltimore City’s first-line and chief-level foreground commanders.

In this episode we are joined by LUF Founder Jason Brezler and LUF’s Senior Man James McNamara. We reflect on the impact and reach of the Leadership Under Fire TEAM’s efforts in 2025. The LUF team has maintained its commitment to humanizing and optimizing performance and leadership in today’s fire service and other high-risk industries through programs, research, and publications.

Dr. Dillon Caswell is a Board Certified Sports Specialist Doctor of Physical Therapy, Human Performance Coach, and Top-Selling Author, who utilizes hope and modern neuroscience to replace the ‘nopes’ we face and empower desiring lifelong athletes to reclaim their birthright of healthy and athletic. With the strategy of Hope, Dr. Dillon Caswell has guided a range of beginners up to world-class athletes including former NFL players, Top-level CrossFitters, D1-D3 College Athletes, Military Special-Ops, World-Touring Performing Artists, World-Ranked Track Athletes, World Ranked Strongmen and Powerlifters, and everyday people - regardless of age or experience.

Captain Will Jasper served in the Baltimore City Fire Department for 28 years, spending his career in some of the city’s busiest and most storied companies. He entered the Fire Academy on February 22, 1994, and upon graduation was assigned to Truck 14 in Northeast Baltimore. He soon transferred and spent the next seven years in some of Baltimore’s heaviest fire service companies, including Engine 52, Engine 8, and Engine 33. During this time, he was mentored by some of the BCFD’s most legendary and seasoned firefighters and officers. Throughout his career, Captain Jasper served with distinction, earning numerous commendations and awards. Promoted to Lieutenant in 2004, he was assigned to Engine 55 in Pigtown before transferring back to Engine 52. In 2009, he was promoted to Captain and took command of Engine 20 in Walbrook Junction, where he remained until his retirement in 2022. Captain Jasper was known as a mission-oriented leader with a deep well of operational experience. On the most challenging fires, he was the steadying presence that chief officers relied upon—offering calm, sound advice that helped bring order to chaotic scenes. Born on February 2, 1968, and raised in Northeast Baltimore’s Woodbourne neighborhood, Will attended Northern High School before entering the United States Army. He served honorably with the 82nd Airborne and the 2nd Infantry Division. Captain Jasper was a respected leader within the BCFD—admired by subordinates, peers, and supervisors for his composure under pressure and his unwavering dedication to the job. He mentored countless firefighters over nearly three decades, and the wisdom he shared continues to influence and strengthen the department today.

We’re joined today by LtCol Gareth “Kip” Hughes. Kip is a Naval Aviator by trade and has also served in several key billets with ground combat units. After transitioning to the private sector ten years ago, he built a successful career in the hardware and software technology industry while continuing to serve in the Marine Reserves. He and his wife are raising five children, and he also serves as an elder in his church.