Grief is a Sneaky Bitch

Lizzie Pickering, grief educator and author of When Grief Equals Love joins host Lisa Keefauver sharing profound insights on how grief evolves over time and how maintaining bonds with loved ones keeps love alive long after loss. Her own story of the death of her son Harry along with interviews she did with grievers help challenge the myths of closure, emphasizing that grief and love coexist in a journey of ongoing relationship and growth. Some of the themes explored in this episode include:The long-term perspective on grief and why it’s not linearThe importance of continuing bonds and evolving relationships with the deceasedHow cultural stories shape our expectations about the duration and process of griefPractical strategies for cultivating curiosity and balance in grief over yearsThe power of “for now” as a gentle acknowledgment of where we are in our griefThe role of community and support systems in sustaining long-term grief workThis episode embraces the reality that grief is lifelong, continuously shaping and reshaping our relationship with love, memories, and ourselves. Remember, grief is a journey not a destination—it's an ongoing act of love and connection.ABOUT GUESTLizzie is a Grief Educator, Author and bereaved mum. She offers Grief Guidance to organisations and individuals, educating people about grief and helping them back to life and work following major losses, from bereavement, to diagnosis, divorce and workplace change. Her book When Grief Equals Love is available from bookshops, plus Kindle, Audible and other listening platforms.Connect with Lizzie Pickering at https://lizziepickering.com/ to learn more about her book, When Grief Equals Love, her work as a grief educator and grief supporter. You can also follow her on Instagram and LinkedIn at lizzie.pickering.ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death doula and storyteller Darnell Lamont Walker joins host Lisa Keefauver for the second time on the show. Since their last conversation, Darnell has reflected on the stories of his work and his life, offering them up in his poignant and powerful new book, Never Can Say Goodbye. They explore how curiosity, storytelling, and deep compassion are at the core of what it takes to accompany someone at the end of life; and to help those left behind find a meaningful way forward. From grieving complex relationships to the often misunderstood expressions of grief and the gift of stories, Darnell brings his heart, his humor, and his wisdom to this very special conversation.ABOUT GUEST:Darnell Lamont Walker is a death doula, Emmy-nominated writer, and cultural anthropologist whose work lives at the intersection of grief, culture, and storytelling. His voice shows up in children’s television, writing for Karma’s World, Work It Out Wombats!, Blue’s Clues & You, and more, as well as in books and in the quiet, sacred rooms where people take their last breaths. Across the world, from Johannesburg and Saigon to London, Amsterdam, Ghana, and beyond, Darnell has helped individuals and communities find spaces where their stories could be shared safely and held with care. In his legacy work with dying clients, this often looks like preserving favorite recipes, ensuring that long after someone is gone, families can still gather, cook, eat, and remember the love that once lived at the table. His book, Never Can Say Goodbye (HarperOne), reflects on his journey as a death doula and the lessons learned from walking alongside the dying. At the heart of all his work is a simple mission: to help people tell the truth of their lives, tend to one another through transition, and leave behind something nourishing, whether that’s a story, a ritual, or a meal that keeps them close.LEARN MORE ABOUT DARNELL: https://darnellwalker.com/READ BOOK: Never Can Say Goodbye: https://bookshop.org/p/books/never-can-say-goodbye-the-life-of-a-death-doula-and-the-art-of-a-peaceful-end-darnell-lamont-walker/c3eec4285f0215ddFOLLOW DARNELL ON SOCIALS: @hello.darnell on IGABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Naila Francis joins host Lisa Keefauver for a tender and magical conversation on the sacred nature of grief. Naila begins by acknowledging an experience of grief too often ignored—the anger that arises when the person who died was someone with whom you had a complicated or problematic relationship. For Naila, that was her dad. Together they explore their shared interest in centering aliveness in a world full of loss, the power of nature as a container for grief, and the way writing, poetry, and creativity allow us to metabolize and move our grief. Naila shares how nature, singing, and even animals have the power to hold our grief and help us see the beauty that exists alongside it. They touch on loss when the relationship was complicated, how new loss opens us back up to teachings still waiting to be learned from old grief, and so much more.ABOUT GUEST:Naila Francis is a certified grief coach and death midwife, an ordained interfaith minister, a poet, and an accomplished writer. As the founder of This Hallowed Wilderness, she helps people transform their relationship to grief and loss through one-on-one coaching, workshops, presentations, rituals and community grief tending. Naila is also a co-founder of Salt Trails, a Philadelphia collective normalizing grief through community rituals, and was on the steering committee that launched the four-day inaugural Philadelphia Death & Arts Festival in 2024. For many years, she worked as a journalist, interviewing artists from all backgrounds, before finding her way to the vocations of companioning others through grief and dying after suffering several personal losses in her own life, including the death of her father. An ardent joy enthusiast, Naila believes in grieving well as a fundamental human skill that ultimately deepens our capacity for pleasure, connection and compassion.LEARN MORE ABOUT NAILA: www.thishallowedwilderness.comFOLLOW NAILA ON SOCIALS: @thishallowedwilderness on IG and FB.ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Charlene Lam joins host Lisa Keefauver for an in-depth and intimate conversation about the aspects of grief we long to explore but so rarely do in our daily life. Just as she does in her gorgeous book, Curating Grief: A Creative Guide to Choosing What to Keep After a Loved One Dies, Charlene explores what it means to curate the tangible and intangible left behind in the wake of loss. Sometimes we're working through the objects that help us access memories. She explains how decision-making about belongings often involves emotional processing and that the act of letting go can be as meaningful as holding on. Themes of bringing intention to what you’re paying attention to, the cultural context of naming and remembering, and the deep self-compassion necessary in the grieving process emerge throughout our time together. Charlene offers so much wisdom, care, and curiosity in this episode.ABOUT GUEST:Charlene is a grief coach, curator, and speaker who helps grieving people engage with and curate the things that hold meaning — the belongings, stories, and symbols that connect us to those they’ve lost. Through creativity and reflection, she guides people to work tenderly with what remains, turning the stuff of loss into the stuff of meaning. Charlene is a proud Chinese-American New Yorker now based in Lisbon, helping people worldwide to make space for connection, healing, and meaning through creativity and curation.LEARN MORE ABOUT CHARLENE: https://curatinggrief.com/READ CURATING GRIEF: https://bookshop.org/p/books/curating-grief-a-creative-guide-to-choosing-what-to-keep-after-a-loved-one-dies-charlene-lam/dd45350a514f1c37?ean=9798991986212&next=tFOLLOW CHARLENE ON SOCIALS: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/curating_grief/ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@thegriefgallery LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/charclam/ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nina Rodriguez joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore aspects of grief too often ignored, particularly focusing on sibling loss and the the societal stigmas surrounding addiction-related deaths. Nina shares the impact of unexpected loss, the importance of savoring life's little pleasures, her journey of reclaiming narratives and the ongoing process of living with wonderment. One of the things you won’t hear in her bio, though you will get to know about her in our conversation today, is the way she carries her grief with such care. Honoring the love she still holds for her brother Yosef, even in a world that often dismisses or diminishes deaths that result from addiction.ABOUT GUESTNina Rodriguez is a grief-informed guide, indie podcaster, host and founder of Grief and Light, a platform and podcast dedicated to fostering a more grief-informed, hopeful world through honest conversations about life after loss. Following the sudden passing of her only sibling in 2019, Nina launched the Grief and Light podcast to shine a truthful light on grief as a lived experience to honor, tend, and integrate, rather than something to 'fix'. Now in its fourth season, the show has earned a 2025 Women Who Podcast Magazine award and ranks #18 of 100 on Goodpods in the Grief category.Nina speaks nationally on grief, grief literacy, and post-traumatic growth, with recent engagements at the University of Miami, the 2025 Latinas in Podcasting Summit, and multiple Reimagine events. She writes the Substack 'Resting Grief Face', contributes to Get Griefy Magazine, co-authored Resilient A.F.: Stories of Resilience, Vol. 2, and completed a Grief Care Professional Certificate Program.Based in South Florida, Nina welcomes aligned collaborations, speaking engagements, and opportunities to create spaces where grief, resilience, and humanity can be met with honesty and care. Follow her work at Grief and Light on all platforms.LEARN MORE ABOUT NINA: https://www.griefandlight.com/LISTEN TO HER PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grief-and-light/id1680003901ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer, a dedicated poet and writing facilitator, shares her heartfelt journey through grief after losing her son and father. She discusses the transformative power of poetry to metabolize loss, emphasizing self-compassion and community support. With insights into the duality of love and grief, Rosemerry reflects on the playful truth in metaphorical writing. The conversation culminates in moving readings from her poignant poetry, showcasing the beauty woven through sorrow and the importance of staying open to every emotion.

Lisa Pahl joins host Lisa Keefauver to explore themes they're both passionate about—the sacred thresholds of life: dying, dementia, death, and grief. As a deeply experienced hospice social worker, she shares her wisdom on creating lasting memories with loved ones facing end-of-life, the role of hospice in grief support, and the dynamics that influence decision-making around hospice care. She discusses the importance of centering the wishes of the dying and offers tools to help us have the meaningful conversations we're often too afraid to start.KEY MOMENTS: 06:29 Understanding Grief Through Family Stories 11:56 Cultural Beliefs About Grief 14:33 Professional Insights on Grief and Loss 17:00 The Role of Hospice in Grief Support 20:01 Navigating Myths About Hospice Care 23:49 Personal Stories of Caregiving and Loss 34:51 Navigating End-of-Life Conversations 37:48 The Importance of Being Present 40:13 The Delicate Dance of Grief 44:43 Tools for Meaningful Conversations 53:47 Introducing the Dementia Deck 01:00:53 Right-Sizing Our Relationship with Death 01:05:55 Introduction to Grief Conversations 01:06:49 Exploring the Death Deck and Conversation StartersABOUT GUEST:Lisa Pahl is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Certified Advanced Practice Hospice and Palliative Social Worker, with over eighteen years in hospice and seven in emergency medicine. She’s passionate about increasing death literacy and helping people face illness, dying, and grief with courage and clarity. Whether it’s hosting a Death Deck Game Night or speaking to a community or professional group, she guides individuals and families to engage in meaningful conversations about end-of-life preferences—so that when the time comes, they are prepared and empowered.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: https://thedeathdeck.com/FOLLOW ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/thedeathdeck/?hl=enGET DECKS AT A DISCOUNT: Lisa is offering our listeners a special discount code, so visit thedeathdeck.com and enter GSB20 at checkout to get 20% off your order. That's GSB20 when you visit thedeathdeck.com.ABOUT THE SHOW & HOSTLisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/ACCESS GRIEF SUPPORT: https://lisakeefauver.com/supportREAD BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chipsEPISODE THEMES:grief, grief support, legacy, connection, family, communication, intentions, emotional support, death, dying, dementia, hospice, social worker, Lisa Pahl, The Death Deck, Lisa Keefauver, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch, podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Having met first in 2024 when they both spoke at End Well, Sah D’Simone joined host Lisa Keefauver for a live in-studio conversation. Together they explore a wide range of topics - the death of his mother, our tendencies to escape the pain even in the name of healing, the power of somatic embodiment, what helping without hope looks like and so much more. With heart and sometimes humor, Sah shares personal stories of loss, healing, and his varied path from supporting orphans in Indonesia, bringing hope to formerly enslaved individuals in India, educating recovering addicts in Nepal, providing spiritual care to the sick and dying at Cedars-Sinai Hospital, and empowering homeless youth in Los Angeles.ABOUT GUEST:Sah D'Simone is a humanitarian, spiritual innovator, and grief educator whose work integrates Buddhism, somatic dance, art, and social justice to facilitate personal and collective healing. As founder of the Somatic Dance Institute, Sah developed the Somatic Activated Healing (SAH) Method, uniting dance, social justice, and spirituality to train instructors worldwide. His bestselling books, highly rated podcast, extensive membership platform, and transformative training programs have earned international recognition—from the cover of Sweden's Human Shift magazine to features in British Vogue, The Guardian, and Forbes.LEARN MORE ABOUT SAH: https://michelledhord.com/MEMBERSHIP COMMUNITY: https://practice.sahdsimone.com/membershipINSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/sahdsimone/INSIGHT TIMER: https://insighttimer.com/sahdsimoneABOUT THE SHOW & HOST:Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chipsEPISODE THEMES:grief, grief support, healing, emotions, healer, grief support, loss, transformation, dance, somatic embodiment, Sah D’Simone, Lisa Keefauver, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch, podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Guest Michelle Hord joined host Lisa Keefauver to kick off Season 7 of Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast. Michelle knows that behind every tragic headline are real people experiencing real pain from catastrophic loss. As she shared in our Season 5 conversation on Grief is a Sneaky Bitch podcast, soon after she filed for divorce, her husband murdered their 7-year-old daughter, Gabrielle. She faced the unbearable pain of being a bereaved mother while grappling with the shocking actions of someone she once loved. As a producer for Good Morning America, she endured it all in the public eye. In this episode, we explore her latest O Magazine essay, There Are No Words—But Here's What We Owe the Grieving Anyway, inspired by the tragic murder of Rob and Michelle Reiner.KEY MOMENTS:02:24 Harmful Grief Beliefs in Society05:05 The Myth of Fixing Grief09:34 Invasive Questions and Grief Thieves12:57 The Othering Effect in Grief14:30 Protecting Your Heart in Grief18:10 The Power of Presence26:57 Understanding the Complexity of Grief30:03 The Impact of Speculation on Grief32:00 Complexity of Loss and Grief34:44 Self-Care for Supporters of the Grieving38:39 Understanding Resilience and Joy44:44 Finding Joy in Art and Service49:23 Grief in the Workplace and Organizational Culture58:04 The Interconnectedness of Grief and HealingABOUT GUEST:Michelle Hord is a consultant, facilitator, and keynote speaker who helps leaders navigate change, strengthen psychological safety, and build resilient, inclusive workplace cultures. With more than 30 years in media leadership and corporate talent development, she brings a storyteller’s lens and an operator’s discipline to the way organizations communicate, lead, and care for their people. Her book, The Other Side of Yet, is a recipient of the 2023 Christopher Award and the 2023 Memoir Magazine Grand Prize. Michelle is the founder of Gabrielle’s Wings, a nonprofit serving elementary-aged children in historically underserved communities named in her daughter's memory.LEARN MORE ABOUT MICHELLE: https://michelledhord.com/READ BOOK: The Other Side of Yet https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-other-side-of-yet-finding-light-in-the-midst-of-darkness-michelle-d-hord/42ad0b5d5d0bdb6fREAD ESSAY: There are No Words - But Here's What We Owe The Grieving Anyway https://www.oprahdaily.com/entertainment/a69822675/rob-reiner-unthinkable-tragedy/ABOUT THE SHOW & HOST:Lisa Keefauver is an author, keynote speaker, social worker, widow, assault & cancer survivor turned grief activist on a mission to help us center aliveness in a world full of loss by reimagining the narratives of grief, one conversation at a time.LEARN MORE ABOUT LISA: at https://lisakeefauver.com/READ BOOK: Grief is a Sneaky Bitch: An Uncensored Guide to Navigating Loss. https://bookshop.org/p/books/grief-is-a-sneaky-bitch-an-uncensored-guide-to-navigating-loss-lisa-keefauver/ffd73d6b6921e6b5?ean=9781477329306&next=t&READ ESSAYS: AFGO with Lisa Keefauver on Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chipsEPISODE THEMES:#grief #loss #resilience #joy #presence #trauma #healing #community #workplace #compassion #griefsupport #griefandloss #tragedy #murder Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Guests Hui-Wen Sato, Lisa Pahl, and Dr. Sunita Puri join host Lisa Keefauver for a special episode of Grief is a Sneaky Bitch Podcast produced with nonprofits ‪@medicinalmediaorg‬ and ‪@unlikelycollaborators‬One doctor, one nurse, and two social workers walked into a podcast studio to explore what does it really mean to live honestly with grief, caregiving, and the hard decisions we’re never taught to navigate? Earlier this year, Lisa brought together three extraordinary voices who have spent their lives at the intersection of healing, meaning-making, and end-of-life care:✨ Hui-wen Sato — pediatric ICU nurse, writer, and advocate for courageous conversations ✨ Lisa Pahl — hospice social worker, co-creator of The Death Deck, and champion for compassionate dialogue✨ Dr. Sunita Puri — palliative care physician, author of That Good Night—and so much more than what she doesTogether, they unpack the emotional labor behind caregiving, the barriers that keep us from talking openly about death, and the unexpected ways grief can shape us into more connected, more alive humans. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by caregiving, uncertain about end-of-life choices, or simply hungry for a more compassionate world, this conversation is for you.Brand new season, Season 7, will begin in December 2025, so make sure you’re subscribed on Apple Podcast so you’re notified when the episode drops!▶️ Learn more about our host:Website - https://lisakeefauver.com/Substack - https://afgowithlisakeefauver.substack.com/▶️ Learn more about our guests:Hui-Wen Sato - https://heartofnursing.blog/Dr. Sunita Puri - https://sunitapuri.com/Lisa Pahl - https://thedeathdeck.com▶️ Learn more about our non-profit collaborators for this special episode here:Medicinal Media - https://www.medicinalmedia.com/Unlikely Collaborators - https://www.unlikelycollaborators.com/➡️ Themes: narrative therapy, grief, storytelling, healthcare, identity, palliative care, uncertainty, empathy, mental health, loss, end-of-life care, emotional toll, family dynamics, good death, healing, hospice, compassion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.