Rector’s Cupboard Podcast

In some religious circles, dialogue or collaboration with people of other faiths is seen as dangerous. In some evangelical contexts, such interfaith consideration may even have been labelled as faithless. Hopeful Christian theology sees interfaith dialogue as faithful, not faithless. True interfaith dialogue is neither dangerous nor insipid. Rather, in building connections with people of other faiths we can grow in our own faith and have positive impact in the world. In this episode, we speak with a Minister, an Imam and a Rabbi. Pastor Don Mackenzie, Rabbi Laura Duhan-Kaplan, and Imam Jamal Rahman are called The Interfaith Amigos and their work has been featured in Ted Talks and presentations around the world. We had the joy of speaking with Rabbi Laura previously in March of 2021. You can find that conversation here.  For more information on The Interfaith Amigos, check out Imam Jamal’s website.  Books and Resources references in this episode: Finding Peace Through Spiritual Practice by The Interfaith Amigos, 2016 Charter for Compassion

Ram Dass once famously said, “If you think you are enlightened, go spend a week with your family.” We came across this quote when David Hayward, known as NakedPastor, quoted it after seeing his own family. Arthur Boers, our guest on this episode of Rector’s Cupboard, delves deeper into the truth of family of origin than even a week together can afford. Boers’ faith matters a great deal to him. In fact, it has come to define much of his career as he has been a pastor, a professor, and a writer. In Shattered: A Son Picks up the Pieces of His Father’s Rage, Boers tells his story of growing up in the Christian Reformed Church in Ontario, Canada. He speaks of the violence present in the culture at the time, even within families like his own. He speaks of what it can look like to grow in faith, in an awareness of the transcendent and of the grace of God, even as the places where he first encountered such faith can also convey fear and violence. We are pleased to speak with Arthur because his book is really good. More than that, we are pleased to speak with Arthur because his story can help us in consideration of our stories. You have likely struggled with some painful things from your own family of origin. We hope that, though some parts may be difficult to hear, Arthur’s story may be part of you growing in strength and hope. Arthur will be in the Vancouver area July 13 and 14 to speak about his book and memoir writing. Click here for details on these and other events of his across Canada.

The second part of our interview with Julia and Jeremiah, sex therapists and hosts of the podcast Sexvangelicals. If you haven’t listened to part one, we encourage you to go back and listen to that before this episode. In this episode, we spoke with Julia and Jeremiah about how we got to the place where conversations around sexuality are framed around morality and behaviours and some ways of dealing with the grief of what has been lost or damaged. We also got a list of resources for those wanting to learn more or look into counselling. We are grateful to Ken Best, our occasional co-host, who joined us for this interview. It was an enjoyable, honest and open conversation. Given that the topic is sex you will likely hear things that upset or offend you, no matter where you are on the spectrum of religious/non-religious. After all, sex therapy is unafraid to delve into some topics and questions that are often left unaddressed.   Resources Books Peggy Kleinplatz – Magnificent Sex Doug Brown Harvey – Treating Out of Control Sexual Behavior Beverley Dale - Advancing Sexual Health for the Christian Client Nadia Bolz-Weber – Shameless Linda Kay Klein – Pure Dr. Wednesday Martin   Therapy Resources The Incarnation Institute for Sex and Faith - Online Resources  AASECT (American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists) - An online database for finding certified therapists in your area, both in the United States and Canada

In a previous episode of Rector’s Cupboard we were pleased to interview Linda Kay Klein, author of the book Pure on purity culture within the evangelical church. Through Linda, our guests for this episode found Rector’s Cupboard and connected with us. Julia and Jeremiah are sex therapists who work often with people who were raised in high control religious environments. They are also the hosts of the podcast Sexvangelicals.  We are grateful to welcome occasional co-host Ken Best for this episode and the next as the conversation went so well that we split it into two episodes.  We talk about common assumptions around sexuality in church culture. We consider what the term “value-based” means. We unpack some of the potential damage from various fundamentalist (both religious and otherwise) frameworks of sexual health.  It was an enjoyable, honest and open conversation. Given that the topic is sex you will likely hear things that upset or offend you, no matter where you are on the spectrum of religious/non-religious. After all, sex therapy is unafraid to delve into some topics and questions that are often left unaddressed. The article discussed in the banter on today's episode is "The Hounding of Kate Forbes Shows Godless Squad Have Won," February 23, 2023  

Rector’s Cupboard is part of a larger non-profit that exists to articulate Hopeful Theology. A theologian whose work informs our perspective is Karl Barth.  This episode delves into the theology of Barth by way of the work of Dr. Marty Folsom. Barth’s writing is extensive, with his major work, “Church Dogmatics” consisting of over 9,000 pages over multiple volumes.   Many Christians have pushed away from rigid and divisive understandings of faith. Some of those who have “deconstructed” their faith hang onto a desire for a meaningful more hopeful Christian faith. Barth’s theology, while outlined decades ago, provides such a frame. Barth was known as “the cheerful theologian” and his theology gives what we think is a much healthier view of the Bible, salvation, belief and non-belief than we have often encountered in evangelicalism.  As Barth’s writing is extensive, it helps to have informed guides. Marty Folsom fits the bill. We talk about his book, “Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone: volume 1”. Dr. Folsom does not imply any advanced knowledge of Barth and guides us through even the basic structure of the dogmatics and some of the most important terms.   Everyone has a theology, a way of understanding the bigger things of life and the world. Barth offers a hopeful Christian theology that can contribute much to the necessary theological renewal of the church.   The episode opens with Rector’s Cupboard hosts speaking about why Barth’s theology might matter today. 

If you have been raised in a religious context, you may assume that the way your church, your denomination, conceived of faith was and is the very definition of faith. Obviously, there is a lot that impacts what we believe and how we practice and express that belief. Dr. Mathew Guest helpfully describes how a particular way of seeing the world (neo-liberalism that defines much of politics and economics in our world) has come to impact religion in general and Christian faith in the west in particular. As many people who grew up in the church look towards a more hopeful understanding of faith, the disentangling of worldview and religion can prove to be a key part of moving forward. Perhaps what you were told you had to believe to even be considered a Christian had more to do with power and culture than it had to do with faith. Our conversation with Dr. Guest focused on his book Neoliberal Religion: Faith and Power in the Twenty-First Century. You can also read his recent article “The New Spirit of Capitalism: How neoliberalism has changed the way we do religion,” published November 2022. This episode has a lot of terms, some coined by Dr. Guest, so we thought it would be helpful to add some definitions. Episode Terminology: Neoliberalism: Neo-Liberalism can be seen as a perspective on politics and economics that assumes some key things. Firstly, there is a heightened individualism, the sense that value and virtue are conceived as aligning with the individual and individual rights and identity. Secondly, there is marketization, the way of seeing that ascribes value to that which is successful or popular in the marketplace of ideas, views and goods. Finally, there is a commodification of society and life. People, agencies and ideas are seen to have value in how they can be evaluated as a commodity. Neo-Liberalism as a political concept has led to fulsome ideas of freedom, autonomy and identity. At its best, it can reveal coercion and groupthink. However, there are also neutral and negative ways in which neo-liberalism impacts everything from social life to work life to spirituality and religion. Marketization: The idea that religion functions best as a market. So, the religions or churches that attract the most people, are the best. Churches and religions come to be seen as competing for a market. (Mathew thinks it’s more complicated than that) Marketization also impacts notions of spiritual and moral success for groups and for individuals. Populism: This is a form of political identity that rests on an idea of “the people.” Populism eventually bypasses elections, and claims to voice what the real people want. Characterized by a kind of rhetoric, typically from one leader who claims a special connection to the people, even though they may be part of the elite. Populism often assumes there is a corrupt elite getting in the way of the people getting what they want. We can see how, in our current social and political culture, populism becomes aligned with and uses religion. Post-Truth Thinking: The idea that the powers that be are hiding things. You get conspiracy theories, the X Files, etc. It has escalated recently through the activities of public figures who have disregarded what may previously been thought to be unassailable traditions or truths. This can include the thought that key to Christian practice is a rejection of the world. In some expressions of church, there has been a very present critique of “the world” in saying that the world is not interested in truth. It is curious how this tendency has often existed alongside a willingness for fantastical belief or the propagation of conspiracy theories. Securitization: An assumption, at a policy level, that conceives of some religions as more suspicious than others. People and groups who can be characterized as “the other” are identified as forces from which we need security. This leads to a stigmatization of people who look different, or believe differently as dangerous. Thus, intense Christian faith, for example, can be seen as virtuous while intense Islamic faith is portrayed as threatening. Cosmeticization: The ways in which particular kinds of Christianity foreground the drive for polished perfectionism as a way of measuring success. Things viewed as successful in these religious circles resemble advertising or celebrities. The celebration of the cosmetic overcomes traditional depth or thought or interior life.

Rich or poor or somewhere in-between, our sense of security and identity can often have to do with money. Who we are, how we relate to others, and how we feel about our well-being is impacted, for good or ill, by whether we feel we have enough money.   Mark Petersen has lived much of his life in the world of money and philanthropy. He has also taken up multiple spiritual pilgrimages as a way of asking the big questions of identity and meaning.   We are pleased to speak with Mark about his experience with his family foundation, his journey on the Camino (you can find his blog about his Camino pilgrimages here) , and his thoughts about charity and fundraising.  Mark has written a book relating the world of philanthropy to the journey on the trail. It is called Love Giving Well and it offers insight into what compels people to give and how decisions about giving are often made. 

We are pleased to be joined by Tim Dickau of CityGate and The Centre for Missional Leadership. He is also the author of Forming Christian Community in a Secular Age. Tim speaks with us about his vision for how faith and church should be blessing in the world. Tim was pastor of Grandview Calvary in Vancouver for many years and has helped facilitate numerous community projects addressing needs around housing and other areas of need. Tim offers thoughtful considerations of hopeful ways forward for faith and church.

How do you remember Christmas? What traditions are essential to make it really feel like Christmas? So much of how we experience Christmas is based in nostalgia, an understanding and, often, idealization of the past. The Cupboard hosts gathered to enjoy a Christmas tasting (recipe below), share memories, and discuss the of role nostalgia at Christmastime. There’s a term we just discovered, “imagined future nostalgia,” wanting to make memories now that will hold meaning in the future, which can place additional pressure on preparations for Christmas. We hope that you are able, in spite of the uncertainties or pressures you may be experiencing, to know and experience that Christmas can be informed by the future, which is good, rather than a longing or recreation of the past. Merry Christmas from all of us at Rector’s Cupboard!   Materials Referenced: Day 9: The Magic of Less ‘Holiday Magic’ - New York Times, December 9, 2022 Masks, mops and ‘ugly sticks’ – a look at Newfoundland’s tradition of mummering – Macleans, December 12, 2022 Land of My Sojourn – Rich Mullins Gravy – Rhona McAdam in Larder   Tasting Notes: Our tasting for this episode was a Snowflake cocktail using gin and Figgy Puddin’ liquor from Copperpenny Distilling Co. in North Vancouver. Snowflake Cocktail 1.5 Oz Gin 1 Oz Figgy Puddin’ Liqour 3 Oz Eggnog Served over ice and topped with nutmeg or cinnamon

Story is the universal human language. We learn who we are and how to make sense of the world through story. It can also be a means through which we can engage with and encounter others. Story can communicate truth in a way that other forms of communication cannot.   In this episode, we spoke with fellow podcaster, Jonathan Wright, from the podcast Hello Unknown. Jonathan is a former tax lawyer but has left the practice of law to write and tell stories. Jonathan talked to us about how he came to podcasting and of the importance of story in his own life.   The first season Hello Unknown is out now and the second season is in the works. We would highly recommend checking it out. It’s available anywhere you get your podcasts.