The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Why the Math Doesn’t Work: How Student Loan Debt Hits Therapists Harder Than Other Professions – An Interview with Mick MacLaverty Student loan debt affects nearly every corner of the mental health field, but for therapists, the numbers often don’t add up. In this episode, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk with student loan expert Mick MacLaverty about why therapists carry disproportionately high debt, how inconsistent income makes repayment especially difficult, and the structural factors in higher education and healthcare that created this imbalance. Mick explains how federal student loan policies have evolved, why forgiveness programs have become politically volatile, and what therapists need to understand about repayment options, refinancing, and employer-based student loan benefits. This conversation offers clarity on an issue that directly impacts career sustainability, burnout, and long-term financial health. About the guest:Mick MacLaverty is the CEO and co-founder of Highway Benefits, a company that helps employers offer student loan repayment as a benefit. He has spent thousands of hours researching the student debt crisis and works closely with healthcare and therapy-adjacent organizations to help employees reduce long-term loan burden. Key takeaways for therapists: Therapists often graduate with significantly more student loan debt than the average worker. Income instability makes consistent monthly repayment especially challenging. Student loan debt is driven by structural issues in education and healthcare, not individual failure. Federal loan policies and forgiveness programs can be confusing and politically driven. Employer-based student loan repayment benefits can meaningfully reduce debt and interest over time. Full show notes and transcript:https://mtsgpodcast.com Join the community: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/mtsgpodcast Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/therapyreimagined Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano

Starting Out After Graduate School: Team-Based Care, Stability, and Early Career Decisions - An Interview with Eden LathemSpecial Series: Becoming a Therapist In this Becoming a Therapist special series episode, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy welcome back Eden Lathem for a second-year check-in following her graduation from graduate school. Now working under temporary licensure, Eden shares what it has been like to enter the workforce in an intensive outpatient treatment setting, navigate supervision requirements, and make early career decisions focused on stability, learning, and sustainability. This conversation explores the realities of life after graduate school, including team-based care, financial considerations, and flexibility in building a therapy career. About the GuestEden Lathem is a Marriage and Family Therapist practicing under temporary licensure and working in an intensive outpatient treatment setting. She provides individual and group therapy as part of a multidisciplinary clinical team and works with individuals and families navigating caregiving stress, disability, trauma, anxiety, depression, identity shifts, and major life transitions. Eden is also completing training in Parent–Child Interaction Therapy (PCIT), an evidence-based approach that uses live coaching and play to support parent-child connection. Key Takeaways • What the transition from graduate school to the workforce can actually look like • Why team-based treatment settings can offer stability and support early in a career • The financial and structural realities of supervision and licensure • How early career clinicians can stay flexible while working toward long-term goals • Choosing learning and sustainability over rushing into private practice Find the full show notes and resources for this episode at https://mtsgpodcast.com Join the Modern Therapist Community Patreon https://www.patreon.com/c/mtsgpodcast Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Becoming a Therapist as a First-Generation Clinician-in-Training: An Interview with Marvin Vasquez Special Series: Becoming a Therapist In this Becoming a Therapist special series episode, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy welcome back Marvin Vasquez for a second-year check-in as he moves into the clinical phase of his training. Marvin reflects on beginning direct client work as a first-generation clinician-in-training, providing therapy in both English and Spanish, and supporting members of his own community during a time of heightened systemic stress. This conversation explores practicum placement, supervision, self-doubt, and the emotional realities of becoming a therapist while holding personal, cultural, and professional identities at the same time. About the Guest Marvin Vasquez is a first-generation Marriage and Family Therapy graduate student at California State University, Northridge. He is currently completing his clinical training as an intern at Phoenix House, where he works with individuals and families impacted by mental health challenges and systemic barriers, with a focus on Latinx communities. Marvin provides bilingual therapy in English and Spanish and is committed to culturally responsive, strengths-based care and community advocacy. Key Takeaways • What it’s like to move from coursework into direct clinical work as a first-generation clinician • The emotional impact of serving your own community while still in training • How supportive supervision helps reduce self-doubt and “flailing” early in practice • Why bilingual and culturally responsive care can deepen trust and engagement • Navigating systemic stressors while developing confidence as a new therapist Find the full show notes and resources for this episode at https://mtsgpodcast.com Join the Modern Therapist Community Patreon https://www.patreon.com/c/mtsgpodcast Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

After Graduation: Starting a Therapy Career on a Nontraditional Path - An Interview with Derek Isetti In this Becoming a Therapist special series episode, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy check back in with Derek Isetti one year after his first appearance on the podcast. Now graduated from his MSW program, Derek reflects on the prelicensed phase of the journey, including navigating post-graduation registration requirements, taking the Law and Ethics Exam, and searching for supervised clinical work while maintaining a full-time academic career. This conversation explores what it really looks like to start a therapy career on a nontraditional timeline and path. About the Guest Derek Isetti, MSW, PhD, CCC-SLP is an Associate Professor at the University of the Pacific in Stockton, California. With a background in the performing arts, Derek is both a speech-language pathologist and a social worker pursuing licensure as a psychotherapist. His professional work spans academia, healthcare, and clinical training, offering a unique perspective on early-career development and prelicensed practice. Key Takeaways • What the prelicensed phase looks like after graduating from a master’s program • Common challenges with registration, exams, and supervision requirements • Searching for supervised clinical work on a part-time or nontraditional timeline • Balancing another professional career while accumulating hours toward licensure • Why supervision quality and fit matter during the early stages of practice Find the full show notes and resources for this episode at https://mtsgpodcast.com Join the Modern Therapist Community Patreon https://www.patreon.com/c/mtsgpodcast Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

From Corporate Leadership to Counseling Advocacy: An Interview with Iris Wilson-Farley Special Series: Becoming a Therapist In this special Becoming a Therapist series episode, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy welcome back Iris Wilson-Farley for a second-year check-in on her journey through graduate school. Iris reflects on how her expectations of training have shifted, what the internship search was really like in an online program, and how she’s preparing to move into primarily in-person clinical work. She also shares how her background in corporate leadership informs her approach to professional development, advocacy, and research, with a growing focus on sexual wellness and gender-affirming care. About the Guest Iris Wilson-Farley is a second-career counselor-in-training and graduate student in Clinical Mental Health Counseling at The Chicago School. After a 33-year career in corporate Human Resources and executive leadership, Iris is now focused on sexual wellness, gender-affirming care, and advocacy within the counseling profession. She is actively involved in professional organizations including ACA divisions focused on sexology and LGBTQIA+ identities and is working toward sex therapist certification through the Sexual Health Alliance. Key Takeaways How expectations often shift between the first and second year of graduate training What the internship search can look like in online counseling programs Preparing to transition from virtual learning to in-person clinical work How prior professional experience can shape identity and leadership in training The value of early involvement in advocacy, research, and professional organizations You can listen to Iris’s first interview in the Becoming a Therapist series here:https://therapyreimagined.com/modern-therapist-podcast/finding-alignment-in-a-second-career-special-series-becoming-a-therapist-an-interview-with-iris-wilson-farley/ Find the full show notes and resources for this episode at:https://mtsgpodcast.com Join the Modern Therapist Community Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/mtsgpodcast Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits Voice Over by DW McCann – https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano – https://groomsymusic.com/

They explore when therapist responsibility actually begins and which early interactions can create liability. The hosts unpack risks from intake paperwork, crisis disclosures, and missed first appointments. Conversation covers handling pre-session suicidality, distinguishing collateral contacts from clients, and setting clear availability and boundaries before treatment starts.

TJ Walsh, LPC, a licensed professional counselor and creative leader, dives into the complexities of modern therapy. He highlights the risks of 'vibe-forward' therapy, where relatability overshadows clinical depth, potentially hindering long-term change. Walsh explains the essential role of neutrality as containment in therapy, distinguishing between validation and effective treatment. He emphasizes the need for ongoing supervision and personal depth work for therapists, while also addressing the impact of social media on client expectations.

REPLAY: Working With Politically Divided Families with Angela Caldwell, LMFT In this Reprise episode, Curt and Katie revisit their timely conversation with Angela Caldwell, LMFT on working with politically divided families. This episode explores family systems, differentiation, distress tolerance, and therapeutic neutrality when political conflict enters the therapy room. Angela offers a hopeful, clinically grounded framework for helping families tolerate opposing viewpoints, stay in relationship, and navigate discomfort without forcing agreement, making this episode especially relevant during election cycles and holiday family gatherings. You can see the original show notes and transcripts for episode 375 here: https://therapyreimagined.com/modern-therapist-podcast/how-can-therapists-help-politically-divided-families-an-interview-with-angela-caldwell-lmft/

Replay Episode: Therapy As a Political Act with Dr. Travis Heath In this reprise episode, Curt and Katie revisit their powerful conversation with Dr. Travis Heath on why therapy is inherently a political act. Originally recorded in June 2020, just days after the murder of George Floyd, this episode examines how therapists navigate racism, systems of oppression, political overwhelm, and community trauma in the therapy room. Curt and Katie reflect on how the cultural landscape has shifted over the past five years, why Travis’s insights still resonate, and what therapists must continue doing to stay engaged in anti racist, decolonizing, and community centered work. You can see the original show notes and transcripts for episode 158 here: https://therapyreimagined.com/modern-therapist-podcast/therapy-as-a-political-act/

How Therapists Can Actually Rest During the Holidays: Letting Go of Guilt, Productivity, and Instagram-Worthy Expectations Curt and Katie explore how therapists can create a real holiday break - not a performative or productivity-driven one. They discuss the pressure to rest “perfectly,” the guilt of not fully unplugging, how to shift into restorative downtime, and why passive vs. active rest matters. They also highlight anxiety, money scarcity, grief, and family dynamics that often intensify during the season, offering compassionate strategies for caring for yourself as a therapist and a human. Key Takeaways for Therapists You don’t need an Instagram-worthy vacation: real rest is allowed. Rest is a process, not a switch; transition time matters. It’s okay to be partially off and still check in lightly as needed. Passive rest (scrolling) and active rest (movement, nature, connection) serve different purposes. Anxiety, scarcity mindset, or family stress may drive overworking—notice the “why.” The holidays can be hard; grief and emotional complexity deserve compassion. Full show notes at: mtsgpodcast.com Join the Modern Therapist Community Linktree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined Creative Credits Voice Over by DW McCann — https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano — https://groomsymusic.com/