Building the Elite Podcast

John Spencer is one of the world’s leading experts on urban warfare. He currently serves as the chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute, codirects the Urban Warfare Project, and hosts the Urban Warfare Project Podcast at West Point.In addition to personal experiences from 25 years as an infantry soldier and officer in the US Army, including urban battles in Iraq in 2003 and the Battle of Sadr City in 2008, he has spent over a decade researching, publishing, and lecturing on all facets of urban warfare.  In the last five years, he has conducted research in India, Israel, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Ukraine. He has served as an advisor to the top four-star general and other senior leaders in the U.S. Army as part of strategic research groups from the Pentagon to the United States Military Academy. He has also trained multiple militaries in urban operations. His research focuses on all military operations in dense urban areas, megacities, and urban and subterranean warfare.In February 2022, Spencer wrote a guide, The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender, for Ukrainian citizens on how to defend their cities. The manual was translated into Ukrainian and spread widely across Ukraine. It is now available in sixteen separate languages, with many other translations in the works.In this episode, we’ll talk with John about the difficulties of urban warfare, his time in Ukraine, his recent trip into Gaza, and much more. More about John:Website: JohnSpencerOnline.comX: https://x.com/SpencerGuardInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/spencerguardTimestamps:00:00:21 Intro to John Spencer00:01:53 What is The Modern Warfare Institute?00:03:56 Leading Academics Pushing Propaganda for Terrorist Organizations 00:05:29 Why is Urban Warfare so Hard?00:09:21 The Battle of Stalingrad 00:10:50 Urban Legends/Myths about Modern Warfare00:12:55 What’s Changed in Subterranean Warfare?00:16:41 What is so Challenging About Subterranean Warfare?00:21:25 Will People’s Perception of Russia Change?00:25:40 General Sun-Tzu00:26:10 Defeat Your Enemy Without Fighting00:29:08 What Happens if Russia Wins the Propaganda War?00:32:01 Gaza and Hamas00:34:33 How Many Civilians are Killed in the Crossfire?00:42:53 What if We Just Let Hamas Go?00:48:04 Proxy Groups of Iran00:50:12 Extreme Misogyny in Iran 00:53:15 The Spread of an Ideology00:56:03 Eradicating Extremist Ideologies Efficiently01:02:00 “Pay for Slay” Program01:03:04 Independence of Gaza in 200501:04:00 Responsibilities of Israel for the Conditions in Gaza01:05:11 Hamas Leadership Using Economic Oppression 01:07:55 Outro

Meg Tucker, former Army Kiowa Warrior pilot and founder of The Valkyrie Project, builds woman-centric human performance and policy work. She discusses cycle-aware training, the dangers of ill-fitting body armor and rucks, and practical fixes for gear and testing to better serve servicewomen.

Meg Tucker, a former Army Kiowa Warrior pilot and PSYOP officer who founded The Valkyrie Project to advance servicewomen. She recounts becoming a helicopter pilot, the Kiowa’s role and weapons systems, autorotation emergency procedures, firing and aiming from helicopters, Hellfire targeting, and her move into Psychological Operations and deployments in Syria and El Salvador.

Lt. Col. Tom Schueman served in Afghanistan for sixteen months, including the single bloodiest battle of the war in Afghanistan, as a platoon commander with the Third Battalion, Fifth Marines in Helmand Province. He redeployed to Afghanistan as a JTAC and advisor to the Afghan National Army while he was a member of First Reconnaissance Battalion. Schueman went on to get his master's in English literature at Georgetown University and teach English literature at the United States Naval Academy. In 2022, alongside his friend and Afghani interpreter, Zak, he published Always Faithful, a book about his time in Afghanistan and the effort to get Zak and his family to America before the Taliban could make good on their promise to kill them. Thomas is still an active-duty Marine and the founder of the nonprofit Patrol Base Abbate, based in Montana. PB Abbate provides a space for veterans and service members to reconnect around shared interests.More about Major Schueman:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kill.z0n3Patrol Base Abbate: https://www.pbabbate.org/home-0Always Faithful: https://amzn.to/3M6EI1nTimestamps:00:00:22 Intro to Thomas Schueman00:01:22 Overview of Thomas Schueman’s Career00:05:25 Infantry Officer Course and Recon Selection00:06:44 Why the Basic Reconnaissance Course Didn’t Work Out for Thomas00:15:25 Sponsor Note: Buildingtheelite.com00:15:53 On Which Deployment Did Thomas Meet Zack?00:17:56 Marines Lost in Thomas’s Unit00:18:44 More Deaths in Infantry Than Other Sections of Military00:24:49 Working With Zack00:27:15 Thomas’s Mindset After 100 Firefights in 100 Days00:42:19 What is Patrol Base Abbate?00:52:53 Where is PB Abbate in Montana?00:53:53 How is PB Abbate Funded?00:56:36 Getting Zack Out Before the Fall of Kabul01:06:53 Outro

In this episode, we explore how post-WWII Air Force pilots faced numerous crashes, not due to mechanical failures or pilot errors, but because of a fundamental flaw in cockpit design based on the "average" pilot. This led to Lieutenant Gilbert Daniels's findings, who discovered that designing for the "average person" did not fit anyone. This discovery led to a revolutionary change in how cockpits were built. The 'average person' principle, as demonstrated in the aviation industry, has far-reaching implications. It illustrates why one-size-fits-all solutions fail in areas like SOF training, where individual variability is crucial. Understanding and accounting for individual differences can significantly enhance outcomes, from aviation safety to special operations selection. 

Jeff Depatie is a former sniper with Canada’s tier-one unit, JTF-2. He has vast experience in tactical shooting, elite team selection, and human optimization. He was part of the sniper team holding the world record for the longest confirmed kill at 3.5 km and has trained incoming tier-1 operators in shooting and tactics.After his military career, Jeff turned his focus to addressing PTSD and transforming adversity into growth. He is producing a documentary, “Dark Night of Our Soul,” about post-traumatic growth and how life’s challenges can lead to personal development.He co-founded The Special Forces Experience (SFE), an organization dedicated to facilitating profound personal transformations through meticulously designed challenges and experiences. As the Chief Course Architect of SFE, Jeff has been instrumental in creating programs like “The Process,” which pushes participants to their physical, mental, and emotional limits to foster growth and resilience.In this episode, we’ll discuss Jeff’s ideas on managing life’s difficulties, a concept he calls the “Art of Adversity.” We’ll explore how adversity can be understood through science and personal experience and how it can lead to growth.About Jeff:You can learn more about Jeff and The Special Forces Experience at www.thespecialforcesexperience.comHe’s on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/jeffdepatie_ Timestamps:00:00:22 Intro to Jeff Depatie00:01:38 Jeff Depatie’s Career00:07:09 “Show of Force” Story00:09:05 Fallout from the “Show of Force”00:10:49 What Does Post-Traumatic Growth Mean to Jeff? 00:18:36 How Your Environment Shapes You00:20:00 Equilibrium is Death in a Complex System00:21:33 “The Process” Jeff Has Modeled is Based on Exposure to Trauma00:24:26 Replicating the Results of “The Process” with Love Instead of Fear00:28:57 Why SF Operators Often Are Honest with Their Feelings00:35:47 Consequences of Making Decisions by Ignoring Emotional Intuition00:37:51 Comparing Elite Tennis Player’s Nervous Systems to Other’s00:40:05 Sponsor Note - Coaching Mentorship Program00:40:30 “The Art of Adversity”00:43:15 “Special Forces Experience” Events and Time Frame00:45:14 Sign Up for Jeff Depatie’s Courses00:45:55 Advice for Someone Going to JTF-2 Selection00:46:45 Jeff’s Favorite Off-Road Vehicles00:47:46 Best and Worst Advice Ever Given00:49:02 Outro

Tommy Wood, BM BCh, PhD, is a neuroscientist, elite-level professional nerd, and performance consultant to world-class athletes in a dozen sports. He received an undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of Cambridge, a medical degree from the University of Oxford, and a PhD in physiology and neuroscience from the University of Oslo. Tommy is an Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Neuroscience at the University of Washington and a Visiting Scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition. His research focuses on brain health and brain injury treatment across the lifespan, as well as developing easily accessible methods with which to track health, performance, and longevity in both professional athletes and the general population. Tommy serves as deputy editor of the Wiley Journal Lifestyle Medicine, is a Director of the British Society for Lifestyle Medicine, and consults for a number of digital health companies and charities that focus on how lifestyle and the environment can affect long-term health and chronic disease.You can learn more about Dr. Wood at his website, www.drtommywood.com/His substack, betterbrain.fitness is an excellent resource, and if you subscribe, you’ll get some useful resources like a list of blood tests to monitor for brain health, a list of nutrients that support brain health and how to integrate them into your diet, and some in-depth information on how those nutrients and tests work. Timestamps:00:00:22 Is Supplemental Intake of B Vitamins Useful?00:02:36 Useful Factors to Help with TBI Recovery00:10:45 Homocysteine Metabolism 00:11:54 Food Sources of Polyphenols or Catechins00:13:52 Understanding the Effects of TBI and Micro TBI00:18:17 Nutrient Density in Food Helps to Protect from Brain Injuries00:18:53 Sponsor Note: Coaching Mentor Program00:19:40 Why Are Formula 1 Drivers so Interesting?00:22:29 Ruler Test for Formula 1 Drivers00:27:07 What Has Dr. Tommy Learned from Elite Athletes?00:29:21 TBI’s Reliable Effect on Hormones00:31:01 Is Pituitary Damage Specific to TBI?00:32:02 What Are We Not Talking About with TBI?00:34:32 Examples of Different Health Variables We Forget to Account For00:37:28 Outro

Tommy Wood, BM BCh, PhD, is a neuroscientist, elite-level professional nerd, and performance consultant to world-class athletes in a dozen sports. He received an undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of Cambridge, a medical degree from the University of Oxford, and a PhD in physiology and neuroscience from the University of Oslo. Tommy is an Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Neuroscience at the University of Washington and a Visiting Scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition. His research focuses on brain health and brain injury treatment across the lifespan, as well as developing easily accessible methods with which to track health, performance, and longevity in both professional athletes and the general population. Tommy serves as deputy editor of the Wiley Journal Lifestyle Medicine, is a Director of the British Society for Lifestyle Medicine, and consults for a number of digital health companies and charities that focus on how lifestyle and the environment can affect long-term health and chronic disease.You can learn more about Dr. Wood at his website, www.drtommywood.com/His substack, betterbrain.fitness is an excellent resource, and if you subscribe, you’ll get some useful resources like a list of blood tests to monitor for brain health, a list of nutrients that support brain health and how to integrate them into your diet, and some in-depth information on how those nutrients and tests work. Timestamps:00:00:22 Intro to Dr. Tommy Wood00:01:46 Dr. Wood’s Ancestral Viking Heritage 00:03:28 What is The British Society of Lifestyle Medicine?00:04:37 Traction of the BSLM in the United States00:06:53 Seventh-Day Adventist’s Dietary Guidelines00:08:40 Most Noticeable Changes Between Lifestyle Medicines00:11:41 Building an Active Relationship With Your Doctor Before You Get Sick00:13:08 Role of Social Environment On Lifestyle-Type Diseases00:19:03 Lifestyle Interventions for Long-Term Brain Health00:22:55 Main Drivers of Preserving or Losing Cognitive Function00:24:57 How Useful Are Brain Games Like Luminosity?00:28:30 How Different Diseases Affect Cognitive Supply 00:33:18 Benefits of Omega-3’s for the Brain and Heart00:35:35 Dietary Sources of Omega-3’s00:37:52 Smaller Fish Have Less Heavy Metal Accumulation00:39:06 Does Dr. Wood Eat Fish That is Higher In Mercury?00:39:34 TBI or Concussions and Loss of Cognitive Function 00:40:47 Glymphatic System Explained00:42:20 When is the Glymphatic System the Most Active?00:43:29 Beta-Amyloids and Cognitive Function00:46:56 Outro

Dr. Allison Brager is an Army neuroscientist, CrossFit Games athlete, and sleep specialist. Her career bridges the gap between rigorous scientific research and high-level athletic performance.Dr. Brager is currently a GHOST fellow at the US Special Operations Command headquarters. Prior to that, she served as the Deputy Chief Science Officer at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School, where she worked on evaluation and R&D projects focused on the assessment and selection courses for Special Forces, Civil Affairs, and Psy Ops. She has received two NIH National Research Service Awards and a National Academies of Sciences fellowship, which recognize her groundbreaking work on physiological resilience to extreme stress.Her PhD focus was around sleep science, and she now sits on fatigue management and neuroenhancement working groups through NATO, US Special Operations Command, the Office of the Army Surgeon General, and inter-government (DoD, NASA, FAA, NHTSA, NIH) collaborations. Allison’s expertise in sleep, particularly under extreme conditions, and her unique ability to apply her scientific knowledge to enhance athletic performance make her a valuable asset to the military and the broader scientific community. She is also the author of Meathead: Unraveling the Athletic Brain, which explores the intersection of neuroscience and athleticism.As a final note, Allison squeezed in this call between a two-day human performance conference and a trip to NASA, and she works all day in a highly secure building where she can’t do phone calls, so we had to do this call with her outside. So, there might be a bit of background noise.Dr. Brager's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/docjockzzzOn LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-brager-80a58210/Timestamps:00:00:21 Introduction to Allison Brager00:02:06 NASA Assessment and Selection00:03:06 Checklist of Skill Sets Necessary for NASA Selection00:05:40 Significance of Working With People on the Worst Days of Their Lives00:09:02 What Does Allison’s Career Look Like?00:12:32 Allison's Role at Walter Reed00:14:20 What Could Someone Currently on Deployment Learn From Allison’s Studies?00:15:54 Is the Time You Wake Up or the Time You Go to Sleep More Impactful?00:16:45 Importance of Early Morning Sunlight Exposure00:17:47 Studies Done on Circadian Rhythm in Caves Without Daylight Cues00:18:38 Shifts in Circadian Rhythm Without Sunset Exposure00:19:53 Artificial Light in a Subterranean Setting00:21:03 What is Something Critical About Sleep That Most People Get Wrong?00:24:06 Sponsor Note: Coaching Mentoring Program00:24:52 How to Use Caffeine Strategically Throughout the Day00:29:25 How to Know Your Caffeine Metabolizer Type Without Testing00:32:49 Genetic Set Points with Variability00:34:26 Why Does LSU Have So Many Good Football Players?00:36:43 Recruiting SOF Candidates With the Moneyball Approach00:37:47 Military Recruiting Crisis00:38:24 How Does Alcohol Affect Sleep?00:40:41 Consequences of Disruptive Sleep From Alcohol00:41:37 Shift Work Effects On the Body and What You Can Do About It00:42:30 Mitigating the Negative Impact of Shift Work00:43:23 Simulating the Circadian Rhythm Cues Artificially00:43:54 Sleep Aids Other Than Pharmaceuticals 00:44:54 How to Use Valerian Root Effectively for Sleep00:45:25 Melatonin On Testosterone Production and Uses for Sleep00:47:27 Negative Effects of Over-Use of Melatonin Supplements00:48:08 Outro

There is a difference between confidence and arrogance. Distinguishing between the two is essential, especially when preparing for demanding challenges like special operations selection. The best summary of this idea might be Facta Non Verba, or "deeds not words," which, not coincidentally, is the motto of Canada's tier one SOF unit, JTF2.  A realistic assessment of one's abilities, backed by experience and knowledge, underpins confidence. It involves a quiet assurance that doesn't need constant external validation because it's rooted in real achievements and a clear understanding of one's strengths and weaknesses.Arrogance or cockiness, on the other hand, is characterized by an overestimated self-view, often lacking solid evidence or achievements. Arrogant individuals typically dismiss others' advice and overplay their capabilities, potentially leading to critical oversights.Zack Ferguson is a former Navy SEAL Team 7 veteran who has deployed to Iraq, Yemen, Africa, and the UAE. He served as his platoon's Lead Sniper and Pointman and was a JTAC, Combatives Instructor, and Weapons Ordnance Specialist.He is a competitive 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu purple belt and an amateur MMA fighter. He also teaches for the Graceful Warrior Project, a non-profit organization that aims to equip in-duress women in central Africa with self-defense skills.Zack has a degree in Organizational Leadership from the University of Charleston. At his day job, he is an instructor for Defense Strategies Group, an organization of special operations veterans that provides defensive training and security solutions. One of Zack’s favorite phrases is that insecurity is loud. In this episode, we talk with Zack about what that idea means to him and how he came to understand it so deeply. ----More about Zack:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zackkferg/Personal Site: https://zackkferg.com/pages/about-zack-fergusonDefense Strategies Group: https://www.defensestrategies.us/instructorsTimestamps:00:00:22 Intro to Confidence vs. Arrogance00:03:37 Confidence in High-Stakes Environments (SOF Selection, etc.)00:04:50 Connection Between Incompetence and Overestimation00:05:25 Connection Between High-Performers and Underestimation00:06:26 Improvement Through Education00:07:25 Dunning-Kruger Effect Not limited to Any One Field00:07:44 Impact of Constructive Feedback00:08:54 Assessment and Capabilities of Winston Churchill00:11:03 Napoleon Bonaparte’s Arrogance and Downfall00:16:04 Intro to Zack Ferguson 00:17:02 The Training Center LA in Beverly Hills00:18:48 Zack’s Take on Confidence and Arrogance00:20:50 Jiu-Jitsu With “The Quiet Professional” vs. “The Loud Guy”00:23:45 Confidence Without Arrogance Within SEAL Teams00:24:26 Contrast: Arrogance But Not Confidence00:26:40 External Arrogance Signals Compared to Resilience00:29:35 Learning to Maintain a Stable Emotional State00:31:36 Athletes Coping With Setbacks and Not Being Deterred00:34:41 Sponsor Note: Coaching Mentor Program00:35:23 Developing Strength by Putting in the Time00:36:56 Looking for Shortcuts is a Red Flag in Candidates00:39:28 The Smartphone Generation and Emotional Regulation Issues00:42:20 Zack’s Mental Struggle to Get Through “Surf Torture”00:43:26 Confidence is Earned Through Difficult Experiences00:45:32 Insecurities Are Loud00:45:40 Practical Takeaways00:47:10 Outro