How to Build a Sustainable Music Career and Collect All Revenue Streams

Emily White
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Apr 6, 2026 • 1h 21min

S5.1/E78: Get Your Art Together With Naomi Westwater

We’re back with a FULL season where we’ll be covering the entire music industry, from recording to release, this time through a Boston / Massachusetts / New England perspective with episodes filmed live at Northeastern University. To kick things off we’re talking to powerhouse musician and leader Naomi Westwater on their incredible career and so much more. We hope you enjoy!Creator, Executive Producer, Producer & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Executive Producer Frank Woodworth⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Special Thanks to Northeastern University’s College of Arts, Media & Design + Music Department, Grace Bizzell, Professors Hilary Porris, David Herhlihy + Maxine Philavong, and Hyacinthe Joassainte.Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.10% off w/ code PODCAST Contact: ⁠⁠⁠⁠info@c-ent.com⁠
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Mar 16, 2026 • 56min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E77: Gloria Kaba on How to Record With or Without a Budget and More

Ghanaian-American multi-hyphenate creator Gloria Kaba is a boundary-pushing force in modern music. With technical mastery as an engineer and producer, she’s collaborated with artists including Solange, Beyoncé, Frank Ocean, Yebba, Kelela, Lauryn Hill, Q-Tip, and A Tribe Called Quest, and more. Host Emily White explores Gloria’s rise to the top of the industry with Gloria sharing her wisdom on how to record with or without a budget and more.Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠⁠⁠Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCASTContact: ⁠⁠⁠info@c-ent.com⁠
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Mar 2, 2026 • 1h 21min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E76: Get Your Biz Affairs Together w/ R.E.M. Manager and Attorney Bertis Downs

R.E.M.‘s longtime manager and attorney, Bertis Downs, is a legend himself who is a fierce artist advocate that has created positive tangible change for the music industry and our world at large. In this episode Host Emily White digs into Bertis’ background and extraordinary career, while also covering the topic of “Get Your Business Affairs” by discussing recording and songwriting rights, work for hire agreements, remixes, how to release a cover song, group / band agreements, and much more.Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠⁠⁠Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCASTContact: ⁠⁠⁠info@c-ent.com
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Aug 12, 2025 • 1h 9min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E75: The Most Impressive Person In the Music Business: Bryan Calhoun / Pre-Recording Marketing Foundation⁠

Bryan Calhoun is THE MOST impressive person Host Emily White has ever worked with in the music industry. This episode digs into Bryan’s extraordinary career working with major artists not limited to Lil Wayne, The Roots, Jill Scott, his background in music tech, royalties, and so much more. This incredible body of work has all led to Bryan’s blockbuster Music Business Toolbox, which we implore you to utilize. We also discuss Pre-Recording Marketing Foundation. Sign up for Bryan's email list HERE for the latest on his extraordinary Music Business Toolbox and more.Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠⁠Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCASTContact: ⁠info@c-ent.com
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Jul 14, 2025 • 1h 1min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E74: Manager, Author, and Executive Chlon Henry (Kash Doll, Wealth Media Distribution, & More!)

We’re beyond thrilled to share Chlon Henry’s extraordinary career and wisdom with you all! Chlon is based in Atlanta, manages world-class artists like Kash Doll, and takes us through her journey working with world-class artists, running Think It’s A Game Records and Wealth Media Distribution, in addition to helping us all by writing the brilliant Music Money: Every Dollar Counts. We hope you enjoy and learn as much from Chlon as we did putting this episode together for you!Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCASTContact: info@c-ent.com
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Jun 30, 2025 • 50min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E73: Scott Harris of ArrangeMe.com

Welcome back! We’re SO excited to share Scott Harris’ amazing work at Arrange Me, where you can not only offer your  music for paid new arrangements but also get paid to arrange songs ranging from Sabrina Carpenter, The Beatles, and beyond. We learned a ton about this new revenue stream that has paid out over $8M USD to arrangers and growing. Get in on the action at https://www.arrangeme.com/ and check out Arrange Me’s blog here: https://blog.arrangeme.com/Thank you to Hal Leonard’s Trish Dulka and Jeff Schroedl for connecting us with Arrange Me for this episode!Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Manager: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Zimmerlich⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCAST
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Mar 31, 2025 • 1h 29min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E72: Sydney Phelan of The Azoff Company

Our latest special episode highlighting incredible leaders that we know you  will learn from is a deep dive into the career of the extraordinary Sydney Phelan. Sydney is from rural Tennessee and now works closely every day with her mentor Irving Azoff, who is BY FAR the most powerful person in the music industry. We hope you enjoy hearing Sydney’s incredible journey and more. Happy listening!Thanks SO much to Warm Audio for their wonderful mic used on this podcast! We love you. Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Project Manager: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Zimmerlich⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew WangBook this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCAST
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Mar 17, 2025 • 1h 13min

SPECIAL EPISODE / E71 - Markeisha Darden: Co-Manager of Tee Grizzley, Jayla Darden, Tay B, Mgmt Team of Andra Day, and so much more.

We’re back from hiatus! After producing 18 #iVoted Concerts in 2024 to statistically increase voter turnout, Host Emily White has returned with a slew of special guest episodes of incredible music industry leaders and visionaries for you to learn from. To kick things off, Emily chats with Markeisha Darden. Markeisha manages Tee Grizzley, who is one of the top trending artists in Johns Hopkins University’s data on artists that can increase voter turnout the most. Emily saw that data come to life with incredible shows and wildly passionate fans . Markeisha also manages Jayla Darden, as well as Tay B who just scored his first gold record, in addition to co-managing the iconic Andra Day and so much more. This episode tracks Markeisha’s deeply impressive journey from day one and has a ton of knowledge to share with us all. Happy viewing and listening!Special thanks to The MLC. for their support of this episode!Are you a songwriter, music publisher, or administrator? If so, you need to know about the Mechanical Licensing Collective, or The MLC. They’re a nonprofit organization that’s revolutionizing how songwriters get paid their mechanical streaming royalties from platforms like Spotify and Apple Music in the U.S. Every month, The MLC collects the streaming data and royalties from those platforms, matches the money to the songwriter who has earned it, and then pays out the royalties due. With over $2.5 billion in royalties distributed and more than 50,000 Members worldwide, The MLC is already making a huge impact. And the best part? Membership is completely free!Don’t leave money on the table — visit TheMLC.com today to sign up!Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Project Manager: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Zimmerlich⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew WangBook this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCAST
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Jul 22, 2024 • 1h 23min

SEASON 4 FINALE: S4.12/E70: When Do I Need An An Attorney, Mgr, etc? Defining an Artist's Traditional "Team" w/ Geraldine Zanaska

Geraldine Zanaska, a music industry veteran, shares her vast experience navigating the evolving roles within an artist's team. She discusses when to seek professionals like attorneys and managers, underscoring the importance of clear communication and compensation agreements. The conversation highlights the significance of community support and collaboration in building a sustainable music career. Geraldine also touches on global differences in management commission structures and the critical role of live booking agents, providing valuable insights for aspiring artists.
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Jul 8, 2024 • 1h 6min

S4.11/E69: Repeat & Grow w/ Artist Lynz Crichton

How do you know when it's time to begin the creative process again? Host Emily White digs in on this & more w/ artist Lynz Crichton who has built a brilliant sustainable music career. Recorded live at The Academy of Contemporary Music Birmingham. Book this podcast was based on: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.collectiveentinc.com/book2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. 10% off w/ code PODCAST Massive thanks to TheWRD from the Ivors Academy for making this tour & season happen! Supercharge your knowledge and career in the music business and in the live environment with 14 day kickstarters, 12 week bootcamps and a fully validated diploma. All Online. Maximum Flexibility. Maximum Impact." Get more info at TheWRD.uk. Artist Growth is a platform that simplifies music industry operations by offering tools for event planning, financial tracking, tour coordination, and project management. It integrates various aspects of business management into a centralized system, enhancing collaboration and efficiency for artists, managers, record labels, and production teams. Questions? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@c-ent.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CREDITS: Creator, Executive Producer, Producer, & Host:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Emily White⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Project Manager: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Zimmerlich⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Engineer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nathan Cain⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Producer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lilia Iza⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Music: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matthew Wang⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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