Saved by the City

Let's go shatter a glass steeple or two, shall we?When it comes to women in ministry, the gains have been ever so gradual. And at the top levels of leadership — from seminary faculty and deans to senior clergy positions — women seem to have hit a wall. Fewer than 25 percent of seminary faculty and deans are women, as are 11 percent of presidents, according to the Association of Theological Schools.This week Katelyn and Roxy are joined by two of those rarities — the Rev. Drs. Lakeesha Walrond and Serene Jones — who have shattered plenty of stained glass ceilings in their careers. As seminary presidents in New York City, the two are partnering together, hoping to offer more opportunities for future faith leaders. We talk to them about the realities of ministry today, the stakes women in seminary face and why we should actually be worrying about the men.GUESTS: Rev. Dr. LaKeesha Walrond is the first Black woman to serve as president of New York Theological Seminary and a preaching pastor at First Corinthians Baptist Church NYC. Rev. Dr. Serene Jones is the first woman to serve as president of Union Theological Seminary and the author of "Call It Grace: Finding Meaning in a Fractured World." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You sound like your mother.Is an essential project of a daughter's life trying to understand her mother? On this episode of the podcast — on this week of Mother's Day — we reflect on the lessons we learned from our moms, how we saw them as teens, how we see them now (SPOILER: it's changed). Plus, we are joined by Marcie Alvis Walker in a wide ranging conversation about the power of motherhood — for good and ill — and the generational legacies we carry as daughters who sometimes become mothers.And, you might have guessed it, an appearance by Karen & Sharon themselves!GUESTS: Marcie Alvis Walker is the author of the new book “Everybody Come Alive” and is the creator of the popular Instagram account Black Coffee with White Friends. E. Karen Beaty is a retired children’s librarian and early childhood education director. (She is also Katelyn’s mom.) Sharon Stone is a retired pre-K and Kindergarten teacher with more than 50 years’ experience. (And she’s Roxy’s mom.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two words: chubby bunny.From the games that were downright gross to the Mountain Dew fueled lock-ins, youth group culture was its own special kinda weird. But was it good?On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy reminiscence on the lessons we learned as teens in our church basements (we shared a certain oldest daughter perfectionism that youth group culture seemed to heighten, even spiritualize). We're joined by author and researcher Sheila Wray Gregoire who shares some of her findings on how youth group teachings affect teen girls well into adulthood — for better and worse.Plus: news from the Brio beat!GUEST: Sheila Wray Gregoire is the author of several books including "She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, and Speaking Up," a followup to the "The Great Sex Rescue: The Lies You've Been Taught and How to Recover What God Intended." You can find more of her work at BareMarriage.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's an evangelical origin story.Who are the evangelicals? It's a contested question with a long history of answers — answers that depend largely on who is holding the mic at any given time.In this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine our own roles within the traditional gatekeeping institutions of evangelicalism and reflect on how we feel about them now. We are joined by Isaac B. Sharp for a tour of evangelicalism's defining decades and how the movement was shaped in part by who was kicked out.GUEST: Isaac B. Sharp is the author of the book "The Other Evangelicals: A Story of Liberal, Black, Progressive, Feminist, and Gay Christians — and the Movement that Pushed Them Out." He is a visiting assistant professor at Union Theological Seminary and the director of online and part-time programs there. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Maybe beauty could be a little less fleeting?This week, Katelyn and Roxy dive face-first into the prickly subject of cosmetic procedures. They're not just for Hollywood stars and Dallas housewives anymore. But just because everyone is getting a little work done, should we? Would the Proverbs 31 woman — the biblical model for all things feminine — go under the knife? The laser? The needle?All this, plus skin care guru Jamie B. Golden on the do's and don'ts (and maybes) on your dermatologist's extensive/expensive menu.GUEST: Jamie B. Golden is a podcaster (give a listen to "The Bible Binge" and "The Popcast") and a skin care enthusiast (check out her 10-step skin care routine). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Living large on the Lord.$150,000 on a three-day luxury retreat in Cancun. $37,000 on flowers. $13,000 on high tea. $16,000 on custom skateboards.These are just a few of the line items recently uncovered in Hillsong financial statements. Last month, a leader in Australia’s Parliament, armed with 17 binders full of documents, accused Hillsong leaders of breaking financial laws in Australia and beyond, specifically of fraud, money laundering and tax evasion.We figured: we've covered sex and power at Hillsong, seems about time to do money. On this week's episode, Katelyn and Roxy take a look at the sprawling implications of Hillsong's newest scandal — not just for the Australian megachurch, but for wealthy pastors everywhere.When it comes to luxury in the house of the Lord, turns out we've got a lot of thoughts.Plus, the results of a Twitter poll — because you all had plenty to say too! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sometimes going through the motions is the whole point.On this episode, which drops amid Holy Week, Roxy and Katelyn reflect on the beauty, meaning, and mystery they have found in the church liturgy. Instead of feeling rote, the rhythms and prayers of the church have become nourishing for us. Kind of like a favorite meal. They are joined by the Most Rev. Michael Curry, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the American branch of the Anglican Communion. He talks about his approach to evangelism, his hopes for the church as it could be facing schism, and how he tries to ask 'what would Jesus do?' even when the answer is rather annoying.GUEST: The Most Rev. Michael Curry is presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the first person of color to serve in the role. He is an author, activist, and appeared on the global stage as he officiated Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's wedding in 2018. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

But did the era of heroin chic ever really end?Low rise jeans are trying to make a comeback — does that mean the bodies that look good in them must too? (Aka: teensy tiny itty bitty very flat stomach bodies.)On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore how the body ideals promoted during our teen years are still informing the way we see our adult bodies. We look at how some things have changed — because there has been some progress! — and how others have stayed frustratingly toxic. Plus, we're joined by Cole Arthur Riley for a lovely conversation on how attending to our flesh and blood bodies can help us heal inside and out.GUEST:Cole Arthur Riley is a writer and poet and the creator of the Black Liturgies project. She is also the author of the NY Times bestseller "This Here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation, and the Stories that Make Us."   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's get a drink sometime!New York's a drinking town. Happy hours. Boozy brunches. Martinis and oysters. The city's social life revolves around artisan cocktails and bubbly toasts and late night dive bars. And while the pandemic may have put a screeching halt to the social side of that life, it didn't stop the flow of booze. Restaurants offered craft cocktails to go, the sidewalks became open carry and delivery drinks were an app away. Drinking went from social to solo and it was during that time that both Katelyn and Roxy began to wonder if all this imbibing was really OK.On this episode, we examine our relationships with alcohol and the changes we've made since the pandemic. We're joined by Sarah Bessey — a self-described "evangelist" for the sober life — who gave up drinking a few years ago and hasn't looked back since.GUEST Sarah Bessey is the author of several books, including Jesus Feminist and the co-founder of the Evolving Faith conference. You can read her weekly musings at her substack: Sarah Bessey's Field Notes.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Watch out for the Cabbage Patch Kids!Katelyn and Roxy are back for a new season of Saved By the City and are joined by guest Jinger Duggar Vuolo. Listeners may know her as one of the siblings on the reality TV show “19 Kids and Counting," or maybe from the "Free Jinger" movement online.In addition to her childhood being well-documented, Jinger also grew up within a Christian movement that was, shall we say, a bit … strict. As followers of Bill Gothard and his Institute of Basic Life Principles, the Duggars emphasized modesty, submission to authority and, uh, avoiding music with a worldly beat.On this episode, Jinger shares how she has stayed Christian even as she's attempted to separate God from the fundamentalism she grew up with.Plus: Katelyn's got a pop quiz for Roxy! And we ponder our prospects as reality TV stars.GUEST:Jinger Duggar Vuolo is the sixth child in the Duggar family, featured on TLC's "19 Kids and Counting." She is the author of the new book "Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith From Fear." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices