On Being a Police Officer

Ep. 62 Justified or not? The Airman and the Deputy – Fatal Officer Involved Shooting – Breakdown with Daniel Carr of Police Law News. Once again, I am turning to Daniel Carr of Police Law News to break down a controversial, tragic incident. This is the incident involving an Okaloosa County Sheriff's Deputy and his response to a domestic disturbance that led to the use of deadly force that took the life of US Air Force Airman Roger Fortson on May 3, 2024. Mr. Fortson answered the door after the deputy announced himself. Mr. Fortson was holding his gun pointed down at the ground. The deputy perceived this as a deadly threat and used deadly force. The deputy was later fired and in August was arrested and charged with one count of manslaughter.As Daniel and I say, this one is tough. There is much to be sad about. There are many opinions. There is much criticism. The media’s coverage at times is inflammatory and inaccurate. We wanted to discuss it in as fair a manner as possible.You can find Daniel at Police Law News on all social media. Here is his IG handle: @Police.Law.NewsAnd here is a link to Daniel's Substack article in which he breaks down the incident and which includes links to the body cam:https://substack.com/@policelawnews/p-144492920Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelAbby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 61  Lawful but awful? Unjustified? The Deputy Sean Grayson – Sonya Massey incident: a breakdown with Drew Breasy, host of The Comm Center and Daniel Carr of Police Law News. We are covering this together because this is a tough one and it requires thoughtful and thorough analysis. Both Drew and Daniel are returning guests. As many of you know, Drew retired as a lieutenant after serving 29 years with the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office and Daniel recently retired from the Albuquerque Police Department where he served for 20 years. He also holds a law degree. You’ll see where Daniel, Drew and I land on this one. To recap: On July 6, 2024, two deputies with the Sangamon County, IL Sheriff’s Office were dispatched to Sonya Massey’s home based on her 911 call of a possible prowler on her property. Deputy Sean Grayson and another responding deputy searched her property as well as nearby properties and found no prowler. They then contacted Sonya Massey to let her know their findings. It became clear to them that she was potentially experiencing mental health issues. They also had questions about a car with broken windows that was on her property. Both deputies entered the home. During their conversation, they asked her to turn off the pot of boiling water that was on her stove. As she moved toward the stove, she picked up the pot and said to Grayson, “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.” Body cam shows her throw the pot at Grayson who sees this as a deadly threat or the threat of great bodily harm and uses deadly force.There are many elements to this case that have caused great debate. Did she actually throw the water? Was deadly force justified? Much of this is exacerbated by other factors: Grayson had not turned on his body cam until after the shooting. His manner in issuing commands to drop the pot and his post-shooting behavior are questionable including delaying the rendering of aid.As I say at the top of the episode, this one is tough. But before making my own decision as a civilian, I wanted to walk through it with Drew and Daniel, both of whom have covered this extensively. I encourage you to check out this episode of The Comm Center with Drew Breasy and Jonathan Bates during which they cover the 911 calls by Sonya Massey’s mother on July 5th and then the Grayson/Massey July 6th incident including body cam footage. Drew also has covered it on his own social media. And I encourage you to check out Daniel Carr’s coverage on his Police Law News content on social media and especially this Substack article.  You can find Drew and Daniel on all social media. Here are their IG handles:@whatsaydrew@policelawnewsCheck out my prior interviews with both Drew and Daniel!!Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelAbby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 60 In Part Two with Pete Forcelli, we discuss his promotion in 2007 to ATF Deputy Assistant Director of the Phoenix Division and the series of events that led him to turn whistleblower on the scandal known as Operation Fast and Furious. Pete documents it all in his new book “The Deadly Path: How Operation Fast and Furious and Bad lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels.”It’s a page turning account of his shocking discovery that ATF agents were being ordered by federal prosecutors to let illegally purchased guns cross the border into Mexico so they could be tracked. Unfortunately, the ATF lost track of more than 1400 guns that were allowed to walk, two of them used in the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in 2010 and later were feared to have been used in the assassination attempt on Gabby Giffords.When prosecutors responsible for the gun walking attempted to indict special agent turned whistleblower John Dodson, Pete stepped forward to testify before Congress. He did so at great peril to himself and his career.  It took four years for him to clear his name. This is not just an ATF story, this is not just a government story. It’s the story of a man who stepped forward to do the right thing, the cost of which took its toll. We also cover the Jean Baptiste Kingery grenade walking scandal. Pete and his team were able to get Kingery to confess to transporting inert grenades into Mexico to convert them into explosives. But the very same prosecutor behind Fast and Furious refused to approve Kingery’s arrest. Kingery was released and returned to Mexico to continue working with the cartels.After testifying, Pete went on to hold a number of roles with ATF including as special agent in charge of the Miami Field Division during which he oversaw ATF's response to some of our country's worst mass shootings: at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport and at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. And he led the investigation into the acquisition of the firearms that were used in the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. If you missed In Part One of my conversation with Pete in Ep. 59, we covered his time with NYPD walking a foot beat in the Bronx and later becoming a homicide detective.  He left NYPD after 15 years to join ATF in New York in June 2001. He was one of many who responded to Ground Zero on 9/11 and one of many diagnosed with lung cancer for which Pete has been successfully treated.We pick up in Episode Two with Pete’s move to Phoenix.You can find Pete’s book "The Deadly Path" on all major book retailers including Amazon. You can find Pete and get a signed copy of the book at his website. And you can find Pete on LinkedIn.  Here is info on his co-author Keelin McGregor in case you're looking for someone to help you write that book.I would like to honor the work and sacrifice of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. End of Watch Wednesday, December 15, 2010https://www.odmp.org/officer/20596-border-patrol-agent-brian-a-terryAgent Terry was a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and had served with the United States Border Patrol for 3 1/2 years. He had previously served as a police officer with the Lincoln Park, Michigan, Police Department. He is survived by his parents, brother, two sisters, five nieces, and one nephew.Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org     

Ep. 59 ATF Deputy Assistant Director (Ret) and NYPD Homicide Detective (Ret) Pete Forcelli joins me to talk about testifying before Congress as a whistleblower in the Operation Fast and Furious scandal. Pete documents it all in his new book “The Deadly Path: How Operation Fast and Furious and Bad lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels.”In this episode, Part One of my conversation with Pete, we begin with his career with NYPD. Pete started out walking a foot beat in the Bronx in 1987. Later, as a Homicide Detective, he conducted federal investigations into violent gangs involved in homicide or racketeering and was the lead NYPD investigator in the Sex, Money, Murder, Bloods RICO investigation and prosecution. As a result of this case, the leader and founder of the organization, Peter Rollack was sentenced to life, plus 105 years in federal prison. In all, Pete investigated more than 600 homicides.After 15 years with NYPD, Pete left in June 2001 to become a Special Agent with ATF and continued investigating New York's most violent street gangs. Shortly after joining ATF, Pete would be called upon to respond to 9/11 working search, rescue, and recovery at Ground Zero. Like many who worked there, Pete was diagnosed with lung cancer for which he has been successfully treated. He often speaks of his experience at the 9/11 Museum in New York.In Part Two, we cover Pete’s promotion in 2007 to ATF Deputy Assistant Director of the Phoenix Division, the role that would lead him to testify before Congress on Operation Fast and Furious. Pete's book, “The Deadly Path,” is a page turning account of that time. It covers his shocking discovery that ATF agents were being ordered by federal prosecutors to let illegally purchased guns cross the border into Mexico so they could be tracked. But that is not what happened. The ATF ultimately lost track of more than 1400 guns that were allowed to walk, two of them used in the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in 2010, a tragedy that helped set the wheels in motion to expose these practices.When the very same prosecutors who allowed the guns to walk attempted to indict special agent turned whistleblower John Dodson, Pete also turned whistleblower and stepped forward to testify before Congress. He did so at great peril to himself and his career.  It took four years for him to clear his name.He ultimately continued working with ATF including as special agent in charge of the Miami Field Division during which he oversaw ATF's response to some of our country's worst mass shootings: the shootings at Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport and at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland. And he led the investigation into the acquisition of the firearms that were used in the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. In Part Two, we will cover his time with ATF.You can find Pete’s book The Deadly Path on all major book retailers. Here is a link to get it on Amazon.You can find Pete and get a signed copy of the book at his website. And you can find Pete on LinkedIn.Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Legal expert Daniel Carr joins to discuss the Dexter Reed incident involving 96 shots fired by police. They examine aspects like non-compliance, exchange of gunfire, and legality of the traffic stop. The conversation emphasizes the need for fair discussions and understanding law enforcement challenges in real-time situations.

Ep. 57 In Part 2 of my interview with Officer Dexter Pitts, we pick up with Dexter's departure from the Louisville Metro Police Department (LMPD) after 12 years to become a US Border Patrol agent. It's a fascinating conversation about what the job really is, what he sees as the issues at the border, and why the job was not for him.Then we get to 2020. Dexter talks about how sure he was that Louisville would not fall into the chaos he saw erupting in Minneapolis. Yet as he watched the news, he saw his city succumbing to the same fate. He felt guilty for leaving his brothers and sisters behind and wanted only one thing – to get back to LMPD to help them. He recounts what it was like to hold the line night after night, listening to the vitriol rioters spewed and coming face to face with people who literally wanted to kill the police. Then we get into issues: the impact of defund, civilian review boards, race, the biased anti-cop narrative, and more.Many of you know Dexter as the author of “I Am Pitts: Memoirs of an American Patriot” and his “I Am Pitts” podcast. As I covered in Part 1, Dexter is an active patrol officer and has been in LE for 15 years and counting. He started with LMPD and is now with a smaller agency in the greater Louisville area. Dexter is a decorated, medically retired US Army veteran. In Part 1, we cover his time in Iraq with the Army in 2004 and the IED blast in that nearly took his life and for which he was awarded the Purple Heart.We discuss his personal struggles that occurred early in his LE career including his mother’s suicide and his desire to end his own life. We also talked about why Dexter chose law enforcement and how he sees it as doing the work God meant him to do.Dexter’s I Am Pitts websitehttps://iampitts.com/There you can find his book “I Am Pitts: Memoirs of an American Patriot” or on Amazon. His “I Am Pitts” podcast is also available on his website and on all podcast platforms.Find Dexter on:Instagram: @iampitts1TikTok @iampittsbookFacebook: I Am Pitts: Memoirs of An American Patriot Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org 

Ep. 56  Dexter Pitts is well known to many of you as the author of “I Am Pitts: Memoirs of an American Patriot” and his “I Am Pitts” podcast. Whether you know Dexter or not, you will definitely enjoy this interview. This is Part One of Two.Dexter is a decorated, medically retired U.S. Army veteran who proudly served with the 10th Mountain Division in Iraq in 2004 as a machine gunner. We talk about the incident that nearly took his life and for which he received the Purple Heart.We cover his early days in law enforcement and his personal struggles including a broken marriage, the devastating loss of his mother to suicide, his attempt to take his own life, and how he was able, through the help of family and his command staff, to turn his life around.What's very clear in talking with Dexter is his passion for law enforcement, a profession he has served for 15 years and counting. He started with the Louisville Metro Police Department (LMPD) and is now with a smaller department in the greater Louisville area. While with LMPD, he served on the Special Response Team (SRT) and completed a two-year special assignment with the US Marshals Fugitive Task Force.Eight years into his time with LMPD, Dexter left to become a US Border Patrol agent in Naco, Arizona. The departure turned out to be temporary. When the riots and protests broke out in 2020, Dexter knew he had to return to LMPD to be with his brothers and sisters on the skirmish line. We talk about the chaos that dragged out well over a year and the lasting impact of that fragmented time on law enforcement.Dexter is working on a second book. The working title is “Still Noble. Still needed. A Profession in Crisis.”  His goal is to support the profession and encourage people to choose it.In Episode Two we talk about the riots, race, the national negative narrative on policing and importantly, hope for the future.Dexter’s I Am Pitts websitehttps://iampitts.com/There you can find his book “I Am Pitts: Memoirs of an American Patriot” or on Amazon. His “I Am Pitts” podcast is also available on his website and on all podcast platforms.Find Dexter on: Instagram: @iampitts1TikTok @iampittsbookThanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org 

Ep. 55 - Scott Medlin found his calling as a police officer, a career he wanted since high school. After his deployment with the Marine Corps in 2003 and 2005 for Operation Iraqi Freedom, Scott fulfilled his dream and joined a police department in North Carolina. His most thrilling role was as K9 handler; he loved tracking and “the adrenaline rush of running in, not knowing what you're going to come up on.” But his commitment to the job was overtaking his life and taking its toll on his family. He decided to leave the streets to become a School Resource Officer (SRO), another role Scott came to love. While he missed being on patrol, he loved the kids and the impact he could have on their lives and theirs on his. Even that role was not helping reduce Scott’s stress.Ultimately, after 15 years in law enforcement, Scott chose to leave the profession in 2020 when his PTSD, addiction and depression became too much. It was at this time he learned that more officers were dying by suicide than in the line of duty. That meant other officers were suffering, too.As Scott says, “I basically thought to myself, you mean all these mental health struggles I've had, I was not alone? Because I thought I was. I just said, I've got to step up. If I can talk about the struggles I went through, maybe it can help someone.”And that’s exactly what he did. Scott embarked on a journey to inspire and encourage police officers to focus on their personal wellbeing in order to survive the career and better serve the public. He has become a national speaker, author of five books and content creator on social media platforms. He has presented at numerous first responder conferences and police academies.  In this episode, you’ll hear the stories of all Scott went through, the sacrifices he made for the job, the sacrifice he made to give up the job, and how he has used his own pain and personal growth to help others including LE, first responders and veterans. If you’ve seen Scott on social media or on his 10 Code Mindset channel on YouTube, you know how dynamic, relatable and inspiring he is. Here’s where you can find Scott. Really, all you have to do is Google him or 10 Code Mindset and you’ll find him!His website:https://thescottmedlin.com/The 10 Code Mindset YouTube Channel and Podcasthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmNfLYoIkm0Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/the10codemindset/Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/The10CodeMindsetX:@10CodeMindsethttps://twitter.com/10CodeMindsetLinkedInHis fifth book The Power in Showing Up is out now; get it on Amazon as well as his first four books.   The documentary, “Is There Something Going on at Home,” available on Amazon Prime video.Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org 

Ep. 54 Det. Matt Pitcher (Ret.) on working long-term deep undercover: creating and maintaining an identity; going years without spending time with family knowing that one slip could cost him the case – or his life.    Matt and I connected on Instagram when he posted photos from his two long-term deep undercover cases. The visual instantly conveyed, more than words ever could, what it was like to risk his life for years as those two people. The stories are both fascinating and haunting, and they show the commitment and sacrifice that officers and agents like Matt make doing this work. Matt started his 22-year law enforcement career with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department (CMPD) and later lateraled to the Monroe County Sheriff's Office in Florida. We talk about working patrol and the devastating line-of-duty ambush murders of his friends and squad mates, Officers Sean Clark and Jeff Shelton. We also look at how Matt went from street level undercover to the two long-term cases which involved drug trafficking, organized crime and terrorism. He received the Medal of Valor for his work on the second case during which he infiltrated a dangerous criminal network to expose and thwart their plans. In addition to his undercover work, Matt handled numerous investigations including rape, human trafficking and homicide and helped crack the case of a serial killer.  Due to complications from a lung infection, Matt was forced to medically retire in late 2022. He is however actively sharing his story and is in fact now working on a book. Follow Matt on his Instagtram @ret_det_mattpitcher  to see the photos from Matt’s time in deep undercover and to get updates on his book.  Also tune in! Matt will be featured in the season finale of A&E’s “Undercover: Caught On Tape,” a true crime series featuring the real stories of undercover agents and detectives. His episode will air Thurs. March 14, 2024 at 10 pm ET. Based our conversation, I am sure it will be riveting.Thank you, Matt! I want to honor the officers from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department who were shot and killed in an ambush attack. Officer Sean Robert ClarkOfficer Jeff SheltonDate of Incident: Saturday, March 31, 2007E.O.W. Sunday, April 1, 2007Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Find me on my socials or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerYouTube: Abby Ellsworth ChannelX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.comwww.onbeingapoliceofficer.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org

Ep. 53 Officer Mike from a mid-sized agency in the Mid-Atlantic has been in law enforcement for seven years. He wrote to me saying, “I want to discuss the mental health aspect of the job and juggling it with family life. I've been married for about five years. We have two daughters who are four and almost two. I've gone through times when I see things at work that hit me in a way that I can't keep bottled up. Calls with children are what hit home the most. I tend to be pretty open with my family about what I experience, which helps a lot.”Mike’s goal in coming on the podcast is to share these challenges so that other officers know they are not alone in experiencing the stress of the job and the impact on family. He wants to encourage all LEOs to have someone they can talk to and not be afraid to ask for help.Our conversation includes what it’s like coming home with adrenaline coursing through your veins; wanting to talk about some things and not others; wanting to be present for your family, but not always being able to; and the challenge of shift schedules that leave little time for family – or sleep.We revisit hitting the streets after field training, those first calls where he felt a level of uncertainty. We talk about the critical incidents that “shook” him and how even the “smaller” incidents come back to haunt him. He says there were times early on when he wished someone would have asked how he was doing after a call – not just minutes after, but days or weeks later. He also says he unaware of the Critical Incident Stress Management (CISM ) team in his area, a team he has since joined to help other officers following a critical incident.   Recently, I’ve interviewed officers who are newly retired reflecting back on this very part of their lives and career. I thought it was important to talk to someone who's relatively new on the job and working patrol. The message from all is the same: don’t be reluctant to speak up. Whether you’re two years on or 22, you’ll relate to Mike’s experiences on and off the job.Thanks for being on the show, Mike!In the episode, I mention The LT’s Daughter Katherine Boyle and the programs she is creating for officers looking to connect or reconnect with family. You can learn more in the interview I did with her in episode 46 and through this link on her programs.Event List Sign Up:https://view.flodesk.com/pages/647f698cdfd04634e9976771Katherine’s IG:https://www.instagram.com/theltsdaughter/I also mention NYPD Cold Case Detective Jason Palamara (Ret.) from Ep. 50. He works as a crisis counselor, keynote speaker and life coach. He recently published a book with coauthor Barbara Rubel available on Amazon called “Living Blue: Helping Law Enforcement Officers and Their Families Survive and Thrive from Recruitment to Retirement.”  You can find him on his website https://jasonpalamara.org/ and on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.Thanks for listening to On Being a Police Officer. YOU are what keeps me going.Follow me on Spotify and Apple; leave a five-star review! Find me on my social or email me your thoughts:Instagram: on_being_a_police_officerFacebook: On Being a Police OfficerX: @AbbyEllsworth13Abby@Ellsworthproductions.com©Abby Ellsworth. All booking, interviews, editing, and production by Abby Ellsworth. Music courtesy of freesound.org