On Theme: Design Systems in Depth

Marcela Rodriguez Joos leads the design system at UPS and plays a crucial role in the One UPS project, aiming to unify the brand's digital experience. In the discussion, she shares how a pivotal moment from the CEO sparked this transformation. The team successfully shortened development timelines from years to months and emphasizes the importance of collaboration in a large organization. Marcela also highlights the journey of cultural shifts, the value of storytelling in leadership, and shares spicy insights on implementing design systems.

Daniel Henderson-Ede, Head of Design Technology and Systems at Mantis& Co., shares valuable insights on accessibility in design. He challenges the flawed belief that design systems automatically ensure accessibility, emphasizing ongoing effort and individual responsibility. The discussion explores the need for empathy in design, the limitations of relying solely on accessibility experts, and the integration of accessibility guidance in design documentation. Daniel advocates for hands-on experience to enhance user understanding, especially for individuals with disabilities.

In this engaging discussion, Amy Ogg, a design system practitioner at Therapy Brands, shares her journey into new roles. She highlights the emotional rollercoaster of starting a design system position and offers strategies for the first 30-60-90 days. Trust-building is key, as Amy elaborates on the Benjamin Franklin effect and how helping others fosters connections. She also emphasizes the importance of cross-training and understanding team dynamics. With anecdotes from her barista days, she demonstrates how diverse experiences can shape UX design.

Jeff Pelletier, a frontend engineer with a design background, shares insights on strengthening the collaboration between designers and engineers in building effective design systems. He highlights the importance of establishing API-first component specifications to ensure alignment between design and code. Jeff discusses common challenges in workflows, the significance of thorough documentation, and how to navigate the complexities of handoffs. Additionally, they explore strategies to minimize distractions for developers, enhancing productivity and design quality.

Smith Schwartz, Product Design Manager at Spotify, and Tyce Clee, Engineering Manager, dive into the monumental redesign of Spotify Ads Manager. They discuss the shift from a playful to a more data-focused UI, showcasing how their local design system harmonized with Spotify’s global framework. The duo emphasizes the importance of storytelling alongside metrics for securing internal buy-in and fostering collaboration. They also highlight how a catchy name like 'Bye Purple' played a pivotal role in aligning the team and prioritizing the project.

In this engaging discussion, Adriana Morales, Design Principal at HEB's Mortar Design System, shares her insights from her extensive career at top firms like PayPal and IBM. She tackles the tough question of what to do when a design system can't support flagship products. Adriana delves into the 'system of systems' concept, the importance of empathy in design, and methods to foster collaboration between design and engineering teams. Her innovative workshops and strategies for overcoming organizational silos are particularly enlightening.

Beau Ulrey, who leads a design team at Oracle Health, shares unique insights from his experiences in both creating and consuming design systems. He discusses the balancing act between speed and stability in development. The conversation delves into the integration of design systems with AI, challenges in onboarding new team members, and the importance of cross-team empathy. Beau also reflects on the tension between design and product teams, highlighting the necessity for better collaboration and communication.

ToniAnn Drenckhahn, Senior Manager of Design Systems at BetMGM, shares her journey in creating a multi-brand design system. She dives into the challenges of legacy code and the importance of team collaboration in streamlining designs. ToniAnn discusses the courage needed in leadership decisions and how to keep stakeholders engaged. She emphasizes the complexities of navigating a joint venture while maintaining creative autonomy. Listeners will gain insights into building trust and effective communication within design teams.

Brian Alfaro, a design leader with over 15 years at Yahoo and the Washington Post, shares insights on how to showcase the value of design systems. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration and storytelling in successful product teams. Brian argues against waiting for permission to implement changes, advocating for proactive initiatives instead. He also likens design systems to toilets, highlighting their critical yet often overlooked role. Plus, he stresses the beauty in the complexities of measuring design systems.

I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership,  why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens.(Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!)💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!Links & ReferencesDan Mall on LinkedInDan Mall's portfolioDesign System in 90 Days❗️Free Resource: Design Systems in 90 Days Figjam CanvasMore of Dan's free resources, talks, writingDesign that Scales bookBook a 1:1 with Dan🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. 📲 Send me a text!Support the show