What Matters Most

Welcome to the first What Matters Most podcast that is also offered in video form on YouTube. This episode introduces our Christian Nationalism project and our plans for the next few years in terms of podcasts, webinars, and lectures, culminating with an international and ecumenical conference in 2028. You will also find links here to the podcast episodes that have already started to examine Christian Nationalism. We hope to offer forthcoming episodes on our YouTube channel also.  What Matters Most is a podcast focused on listening to people and what is on their minds, particularly dealing with the big questions of religion and spirituality. It emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement, a Centre at St. Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, but our programming is intended for all interested parties, Catholic or not. In the What Matters Most podcast, we talk to people, some well-known, some not so well-known, some Catholic, some Christian, some not affiliated with any religion, some affiliated with other faiths (Muslims, Sikhs) to find out what matters to them. It is a podcast focused on spirituality and faith, but truly focused on listening to others, to learning from those connected to the Church and to those who are not. In this episode I begin to define what I mean by the term “Christian Nationalism”? For me, it reflects the desire by some Christians in Europe, the USA, and in Canada, and perhaps elsewhere, to have the roles of the state and Church connected in some fundamental way so that the desires of the state and the Church are formally acknowledged and pursued by each. One of the ways we can think about the relationship is a return to some form of Christendom or a type of theocracy.  I take Christian nationalism as a particular, specific threat, separate from nationalism, which presents its own threats, and to my mind Christian nationalism needs to be defined on its own terms. A previous guest on the podcast, Bill Cavanaugh, sees nationalism itself as the threat and I cite from a recent article of his Nationalism as Idolatry: Why We Must Choose Between Elevating Religion or Country  as an important consideration. Please do check out the podcast episode he was a guest on cited below.  I also cite data from the Public Religion Research Institute, particularly “A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture,” as important to understanding the nature of Christian Nationalism. This data comes from the USA, though, and there is little Canadian data to consult. One book worth consulting, though, is Lydia Bean’s 2010 book The Politics of Evangelical Identity: Local Churches and Partisan Divides in the United States and Canada, in which she shows similarities in Canadian and American churches with respect to theology, but great differences in terms of their political identities.  Our goal here is to understand the phenomenon and to understand how to stand against it, both from a political point of view and from a religious point of view. It does not offer the authentic face of Christianity, although it is definitely a face of Christianity that cannot be ignored or wished away.  Part of our task too is to understand its attraction: what does it point to? What are the positives that people who desire Christian nationalism want? What does it offer them that they are missing? Why did it emerge now? Also, how does this impact people of other faiths? How is their place in a democracy understood by Christian nationalists? What do Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, indigenous peoples, and those with no particular faith, inclusive of all others, feel about Christian nationalism?  So, where are we at right now in terms of our project? Right now, there are podcasts that introduce a variety of ideas and the history of Christian nationalism in North America on the podcast.  Let me give you a list of episodes that touch on or discuss the topic in depth.  The Rise of Christian Nationalism in the 1930s and Today in the USA: A Conversation with Charles Gallagher, S.J. on October 31, 2023 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) The Uses of Idolatry, or Many Old Gods: A Conversation with Bill Cavanaugh on October 22, 2024 on Christianity and nationalism, particularly the idolatry of nationalism. Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Reconsidering John Calvin: A Conversation with Ruben Rosario Rodriguez, January 16, 2025 examines Calvin’s view of the proper relationship between church and state and the authority due each of them.  Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Becoming a Catholic Peace Church: A Conversation with Gerald Schlabach January 30, 2025 In which Gerald reflects on the anabaptist understanding of the role of the church in the world and how the Catholic church can become a peace church. Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Reading the Bible in the Kingdom of Love: A Conversation with Tom Bolin June 25, 2025 In which Tom reflects on his new book, An Inspired Word in Season: Reading the Bible Responsibly in a Polarized World, which seeks to reduce polarization in a divisive political world by seeking out ways in which the Bible can reduce tension by interpreting responsibly together.  Listen here (Apple Podcasts) “The Way We Exercise Dominion is Through Justice:” A Conversation with Dr. Steven W. Tyra on Christian Nationalism, October 22, 2025 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Finally, I think Elizabeth Castelli’s fits in the context of our discussion of Charlie Kirk and his murder and how that fits in martyrdom narratives. Who is a Martyr? A Conversation with Dr. Elizabeth A. Castelli, November 19, 2025 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Coming up is Ruth Braunstein, who will discuss evangelical Christian nationalism. And following that Matthew Cressler who will discuss Catholic integralism, a specifically Catholic form of Christian nationalism. There is more to come including an in person lecture with Pavlo Smytsnyuk on March 17, 2025.  More to come, so stay tuned! And please follow us on your favourite podcasting platform, rate and review the podcast, follow us on Instagram at @stmarkscce, or drop us an email at jmartens@stmarkscollege.ca or @cceconferences@stmarkscollege.ca. Thanks for listening and remember what matters most. John W. Martens

Welcome to the seventh episode of Pop Culture Matters, The Great Speckled Bird and Gospel Music with Martin Strong, the ninth episode of season four. Martin is on fire in this episode, maybe due to the Louvin Brothers’ plywood Satan burning in the background, and I lower the temperature with a complicated examination of Jeremiah 12:7-13, with a focus on verse 9, where it is possible your translation mentions a Great Speckled Bird or not. If not, I dig into the Hebrew and the Greek, the Septuagint, to explain why you might find a hyena instead of a Great Speckled Bird, or at least hawk, or birds of prey, which I will discuss below. Kevin Eng also offers his interpretation of the song the Great Speckled Bird, which he plays on the piano and sings in an old-timey Gospel manner, and which you will find interspersed throughout our discussion. Kevin recorded three verses of the song, but here is the link to the eight full verses of The Great Speckled Bird.  1.What a beautiful thought I am thinking Concerning a great speckled bird Remember her name is recorded On the pages of God's Holy Word.   2. All the other birds are flocking 'round her And she is despised by the squad But the great speckled bird in the Bible Is one with the great church of God.   3. All the other churches are against her They envy her glory and fame They hate her because she is chosen And has not denied Jesus' name.   4. Desiring to lower her standard They watch every move that she makes They long to find fault with her teachings But really they find no mistake.   5. She is spreading her wings for a journey She's going to leave by and by When the trumpet shall sound in the morning She'll rise and go up in the sky.   6. In the presence of all her despisers With a song never uttered before She will rise and be gone in a moment Till the great tribulation is o'er.   7. I am glad I have learned of her meekness I am proud that my name is on her book For I want to be one never fearing The face of my Savior to look.   8. When He cometh descending from heaven On the cloud that He writes in His Word I'll be joyfully carried to meet Him On the wings of that great speckled bird. (Lyrics: Guy Martin Smith) I want to offer some of the biblical background to this song, so get ready for a complex discussion: The two Hebrew words that are the source of the translation trouble are ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ(tzbua): is this a speckled bird or birds of prey or a hawk or a hyena (or a hyena’s cave)? One thing I must mention is that the way the Great Speckled Bird is interpreted as the Church in this song is a common Christian way of adapting Jewish scriptures, but in the actual historical context of the prophet Jeremiah, who lived in the 600s BC, centuries before Jesus, the “heritage” that is destroyed refers to the kingdom of Judah. God has allowed all the wild animals to destroy Judah. My point here is that the song is based on particularly Christian readings that extract the passage from its historical Jewish context.  Below are few recent English versions: Jeremiah 12:9: New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVUE - most current and academically sound translation) Is the hawk hungry for my heritage?     Are the vultures all around her? Go, assemble all the wild animals;     bring them to devour her. Jeremiah 12:9: New Revised Standard Version (NRSV – up until a couple of years ago, the most up to date translation until NRSVUE, which is based on this translation) Is the hyena greedy for my heritage at my command?     Are the birds of prey all around her? Go, assemble all the wild animals;     bring them to devour her. Jeremiah 12:9: King James Version (KJV – old-timey translation from 16th century) Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour. Jeremiah is originally written in Hebrew. So, the Hebrew is the basis for all the translations. Translators clearly have been confused by how to translate the “ speckled bird,” but this might go back to ancient times, especially the word being translated as “speckled,” since it is a hapax legomenon, which means it only occurs once in the whole Bible, and the first translation of the Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BC (more on that in a bit) translates ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿas hyena. That's how the hyena gets in there. The ancient Hebrew text (translating as literally as I can) is as follows: Is my heritage to me an ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ? Are the birds of prey circling round her? Go, assemble all the wild animals; bring them to devour her. The Septuagint (LXX) translates the phrase ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ as a hyena's cave: Surely my heritage is not a hyena's cave to me or a cave all around her? Go, assemble all the animals of the field, and let them come to eat her. Jack R. Lundbom, Jeremiah 1–20: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 21A, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 654 offers key insights for those who want to dig deeper. I will offer a long paragraph from his commentary here: "Is my heritage to me a speckled bird of prey? Are the birds of prey circling round her? This bicolon is clear in the Hebrew except for one word, ṣābûaʿ, an OT hapax legomenon that is here translated “speckled.” The double rhetorical question plays on the collective noun, ʿayiṭ, meaning “bird(s) of prey” (like English “deer”). See Gen 15:11; Isa 18:6; 46:11; and Ezek 39:4. The first ʿayiṭ ̣is singular and is a metaphor for Judah; the second is a plural representing the nations round about. If ṣābûaʿ is left untranslated, the two questions would read: “Is my heritage to me a bird of prey? Are the birds of prey circling round her?” It is simply a matter then of finding an acceptable translation for ṣābûaʿ. Traditionally this term is taken to be the passive participle of ṣbʿ, meaning “to color” (Rudolph). Cognates are attested in Akkadian, Aramaic, and Arabic, and the verb means “to dye” in postbiblical Hebrew (Emerton 1969: 183). In Judg 5:30 the noun ṣebaʾ (plural ṣĕbāʿîm) translates as “dyed fabric(s)” (cf. BDB, 840). The expression ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ is then accordingly translated, “speckled bird of prey,” i.e., bird with variegated plumage. With support from Vg (discolor) and Rashi, this reading is adopted by Hitzig, Giesebrecht, Duhm, and numerous other commentators. The traditional interpretation then is basically sound, with the possible exception of the oft-repeated claim that birds of variegated plumage are commonly set upon by other birds—a variation of the “colored coat” episode involving Joseph and his brothers (Genesis 37). Color does make a bird more visible to predators, but in and of itself color is not known to provoke hostility in other birds. Hitzig cited Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny in support of his view, but these writers say nothing about birds warring with other birds of colored plumage. The same idea is found in Rashi, who gave as another possibility a bird stained with blood, around which other birds would gather. Similarly Kimḥi. The LXX translates ṣābûaʿ with hyainēs (“hyena”). The Hebrew has this meaning in Sir 13:17 [Eng 13:18] (Lévi 1904: 20) and in the Talmud (Dict Talm, 1257: “checkered leopard or striped hyena?”). There are also cognates in Arabic and Syriac (Emerton 1969: 184). “Hyena” is the definition given in KB, although the OThas no cognate term with this meaning. The problem, actually, is not the meaning of “(striped) hyena” for ṣābûaʿ, but an entire bicolon in the LXX which no modern Version translates. It reads: “Is not my inheritance to me a hyena’s lair, or a lair round about her?” Both occurrences of ʿayiṭ have been translated spēlaion (“lair”), for which a satisfactory explanation has yet to be given. The hybrid readings of NEB, NAB, and NJV are all unacceptable." Bottom line: it could be a great speckled bird, but it's not certain! In terms of the Gospel music genre to which the song belongs, it is suffused as you can see with biblical passages, as are all of the Top 5 that Martin chose.  Here is a linked list of Martin's Top 5 Gospel songs, with his preferred versions, which he expanded to 7 and to which I added The Great Speckled Bird, which makes it 8: Great Speckled Bird - Roy Acuff I Saw the Light - Hank Williams I'll Fly Away - Alison Krauss and Gillian Welch Will the Circle Be Unbroken - The Staples Singers Angel Band - The Stanley Brothers The Christian Life - The Louvin Brothers Just a Closer Walk with Thee - Patsy Cline Milky White Way - Elvis Presley And now some news on upcoming podcast episodes: Coming up next, we will have the Ruth Braunstein episode on Christian nationalism and evangelicalism in the USA. Stay tuned. I found it a compelling and powerful episode.  Let us know what movies you want to discuss on our next Pop Culture Matters episode, Christmas Movies, part 2. Listen to the first episode so you know what we have already discussed. Follow us at our Instagram page, @stmarkscce or on our website Centre for Christian Engagement and drop us a line as to what you want to see or hear. Or email us with your suggestions to jmartens@stmarkscollege.ca or cceconferences@stmarkscollege.ca.  Upcoming Events The synodality series has started. I gave my lecture on November 20, The NT Origins of Synodality at St. Matthew's, Surrey and it was a great event. After the series is completed, we will be taping our lectures and putting them on our website for the CCE and our YouTube channel. Coming up! -          December 13 - Dr. Fiona Li, Mary as a Model for a Synodal Church (St. Peter's, New Westminster); Fr. Nick Meisl, The OT Origins of Synodality (St. Peter's, New Westminster), 2:30 pm -          January - Dr Nick Olkovich - The Synodal Parish: A Sign of Hope for a Broken World (St. Paul's, Richmond) TBD. On February 20, 7 pm, Cathy Clifford from St. Paul’s University in Ottawa will wrap up the synodality series at St. Mark’s College. Her lecture is called, “Toward a Spirituality for a Synodal Church.” If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember pop culture matters.  John W. Martens

Welcome to Episode 8 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Elizabeth A. Castelli.  Elizabeth A. Castelli is Professor of Religion at Barnard College, Columbia University She is a specialist in biblical studies, late ancient Christianity, and feminist/gender studies in religion. As you will hear in this episode, she is particularly interested in the reception history and "afterlives" of biblical and early Christian texts, that is, how the how the Bible and early Christian sources are used in contemporary social, political, and cultural expressions and debates. I found this conversation really enlightening for framing conversations about martyrs and martyrdom in our present times. It was helpful to get this deep background about ancient Christian martyrdom and narratives about martyrdom. In terms of the content, I mentioned I would link to a few texts and websites. Here is a link for the four El Salvadoran Church women (Maryknoll Sisters Maura Clarke and Ita Ford, Ursuline Sister Dorothy Kazel, and lay missionary Jean Donovan) who died specifically for their Christian faith in 1980. Two places that identified Charlie Kirk as a martyr are linked here: The American Mind classified, Charlie Kirk as a martyr as did the Trinity Bible Chapel in Waterloo, Ontario. You can find the  letter of Severus that used a memory of martyrdom to inspire violence and forced conversion of the Jews many hundreds of years ago at the link here.  This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to Episode 7 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Sarah K. Johnson.  The Rev. Canon Dr. Sarah Kathleen Johnson is Assistant Professor of Liturgy and Pastoral Theology at Saint Paul University in Ottawa and the author of Occasional Religious Practice: Valuing a Very Ordinary Religious Experience (Oxford University Press, 2025). Sarah is also an ordained Mennonite minister and has been made an honorary canon by the Anglican Church. Her research at the intersection of liturgical studies and sociology of religion explores Christian worship in a changing religious landscape. She holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame and served as president of the Canadian Theological Society. Today’s podcast is not specifically on the occasional religious practice that Sarah will be speaking about on November 12, 2025 for the CCE at St. Mark’s College, but new research with which she has been engaged on young people and worship. With scholars at Samford University in the USA, and others, Sarah is exploring how and why young people worship at a variety of Christian faith traditions. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to the sixth episode of Pop Culture Matters, the sixth episode of season four. In today's episode I discuss Halloween, All Saints Day, All Souls Day, and Samhain (sow-in) too. Growing up, I was clear what Halloween was: a night to get candy and dress up. Halloween is All Hallows Eve, hallows referring to Saints, that is, Halloween was the day before All Saints Day on Nov. 1, and two days prior to All Souls Day on Nov. 2. These links seem strangely tenuous now. Halloween stands on its own. But then I also heard later that Halloween emerged from or was adopted from Samhain (sow-in), an ancient pagan Celtic festival that was celebrated on November 1 in Ireland and Scotland and preceded the arrival of Christianity. These connections, touted both by modern Wiccans and pagans and bemoaned by fundamentalist Christians, have led some Christians not to celebrate Halloween due to pagan or satanic connections. Fang Fang tells me Christians in Indonesia are encouraged not to celebrate the festival. Since I am no expert on Halloween, but do see its ubiquity all around me, I wanted to understand how we got from a Church festival that focused on purgatory, to a modern celebration of wirches, goblins, spooky movies, and a lot of candy. I relied specifically on an excellent book from 2003 by Nicholas Rogers, a historian now retired from York University. The book is Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night (Oxford University Press, 2003), and one its best features is that history and practices from both Canada and the USA are discussed.   I have to say that one thing that I did not get into, as I think it needs its own episode, is Dia De Los Muertas (Day of the Dead). This festival, which is celebrated in Mexico and parts of the USA,  traditionally is celebrated on November 1 and 2, though other days, such as October 31, are often included. Day of the Dead in some ways preserves more of the medieval traditions surrounding  All Hallows Eve than Halloween does. Nicholas Rogers covers it in depth, but not only does it need its own episode, I think it could benefit from a conversation with someone who knows the lived experience of Dia De Los Muertas. Next year! This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  Upcoming Events We will be having some new in person and virtual events starting in this coming Fall and I can now give you some details.  Save the date of November 12, Sarah Johnson will be joining us from Ottawa to speak about her new book, Occasional Religious Practice: Valuing a Very Ordinary Religious Experience (Oxford University Press, 2025). You can come in person or virtually, so sign up at Eventbrite for Occasional Religious Practice and Grassroots Ecumenism, also featuring a panel discussion with Rev. Dr. Nick Meisl and Rev. Alisdair Smith.  On February 20, 7 pm, Cathy Clifford from St. Paul’s University in Ottawa will join us to speak about the synodal process at St. Mark’s College. Her lecture is called, “Toward a Spirituality for a Synodal Church,” but her lecture will be the end point of a number of lectures offered throughout the Lower Mainland: -          November 20 - Dr. John Martens, The NT Foundations of Synodality (St. Matthew's, Surrey), 7 pm. -          December 13 - Dr. Fiona Li, Mary as a Model for a Synodal Church (St. Peter's, New Westminster); Fr. Nick Meisl, The OT Origins of Synodality (St. Peter's, New Westminster), 2:30 pm -          January - Dr Nick Olkovich - The Synodal Parish: A Sign of Hope for a Broken World (St. Paul's, Richmond) TBD and on March 17, Pavlo Smytsnyuk will speak on Christianity and nationalism, a part of the Christian Nationalist project until we get a new title. Pavlo Smytsnyuk specializes in political theology and religious nationalism in modern Orthodoxy and neo-Hinduism. In particular, he is interested in how the dichotomy between the religious and political manifests itself outside of the Western context. His research explores how non-Western, especially Orthodox, traditions deal creatively with the category of religion (as separated from the political), and how holistic theological-political narratives make space for violence.   If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember pop culture matters.  John W. Martens Intro music for this podcast from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/simon-folwar/ancient-caves License code: WGRTZGRDSALHU07U  

Welcome to Episode 5 of Season 4! This episode marks the formal beginning to the Christian Nationalism project, which might acquire a new name soon, that will run from 2025 to 2028, culminating in a conference in May or June 2028. In this episode I speak with Dr. Steven W. Tyra. Dr. Steven W. Tyra holds a PhD in Historical Theology from Baylor University, with expertise in both John Calvin and Martin Luther. He is currently a History and Theology Teacher in the Midway Independent SD, Waco, Texas. He is the author of Neither the Spirit without the Flesh: John Calvin's Doctrine of the Beatific Vision, published by T&T Clark in 2024. He is currently underway on his second book, which will be published by Bloomsbury Press. Steven has also written two significant articles that challenge the biblical and reformation roots of Christian nationalism which we will discuss today. The first, “’Christ is not the shepherd of wolves’: Reading John Calvin on Dominion in a Time of Christian Nationalism” will be published soon in Church History and Religious Culture. I was able to read a draft copy prior to speaking with Steven. The second, “Babeling Nationalism: Reading Genesis 11:1–9 with Luther and Calvin” is published in Principia: A Journal of Classical Education 3, no. 1 (2024) and is available for free download. Please do read it.  This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to Episode 4 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Paula Fredriksen. Paula Fredriksen is the Aurelio Professor of Scripture emerita at Boston University, where she taught for 30 years, and, since 2009, Distinguished Visiting Professor at the Hebrew university in Jerusalem. In addition, she is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She was educated at at Wellesley College, Oxford University and Princeton University. She has written so many significant books that I will not mention them all here. But here are some of her books, which you can find links to by clicking on this link: Augustine on Romans (1982); From Jesus to Christ  (1988; 2000); Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews (1999);  winner of the 1999 National Jewish Book Award; Augustine and the Jews  (2010); SIN: The Early History of an Idea (2012); Paul: The Pagans’ Apostle (2017), winner of the 2018 Prose Award from the American Publishers’ Association; When Christians Were Jews (2018). You can find the link to the book we focus on in this episode, Ancient Christianities: The First Five Hundred Years, by clicking on the title.  At the beginning of the podcast I called Paula Fredriksen “one of the premier scholars and historians of the New Testament and early Christianity.” If you have listened to the podcast, I rest my case. Her knowledge of Christianity and Christianities rests deeply not on facts, but on knowledge, even wisdom. It's this deep knowledge, wisdom, that gets you to phrases that roll off her tongue like “high frequency combat theology,” or that describes early Christianity as a “family of movements,”  and theologians as “policy wonks.”  These phrases come from a deep understanding of history, theology, doctrine, of Judaism, Christianity, and Roman pagan religions. We learn about martyrdom, politics, Origen, Augustine, Manichaeism, apocalyptic thought, celibacy, and more. I hope you learned a lot in this episode, and I hope you pass it on. The episode that is. And then go ahead and read one of her excellent books. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to Episode 3 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Paul Spilsbury, recently appointed President of Regent College in July 2025. Paul came to Canada from South Africa in 1984 to attend Prairie Bible College in Alberta. As you will hear, he also graduated from Regent College and then completed a PhD at the University of Cambridge (Queens’ College) before returning to Canada to teach.  Paul’s teaching is centered on the New Testament, with a particular focus on the Apostle Paul and the Book of Revelation, as seen in his book The Throne, the Lamb and the Dragon: A Reader’s Guide to the Book of Revelation (IVP, 2002),  but much of his research is on Second Temple or Hellenistic Judaism, such as  The Image of the Jew in Flavius Josephus’ Paraphrase of the Bible (Mohr Siebeck, 1998),  Flavius Josephus, Judean Antiquities 8–10: Translation and Commentary (Brill, 2005—with C. Begg), and Flavius Josephus, Judean Antiquities 11: Translation and Commentary (Brill, 2017—with C. Seeman). He is modest about his painting, but he is a juried member of the Federation of Canadian Artists, working primarily in watercolours. Check out some of his paintings at https://www.schindellgallery.ca/artists/paul-spilsbury, or follow him on Instagram. I loved what Paul had to see about the physicality of painting. The life of the mind is a delight, but we are embodied people and we need to pick up a paintbrush, or a shovel, or a hammer, whatever it is, and connect to our bodies. You must have gotten a sense of Paul Spilsbury’s joy as he takes on a significant role in the life of a significant theological college, a joy that springs from his falling in love with the Bible many years ago. But he also expressed his happiness that Regent is a community in which there is genuine shared governance and his role is as a faithful steward, a shepherd.   He is not on his own in this work. He also spoke of Regent College as a community connected and dedicated to the arts, to literature, to the world around them, but that all emerges from its grounding in Scripture and the biblical world,  as Paul’s own research is too. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to Episode 2 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr.  Joan E. Taylor, Professor Emerita of Christian Origins and Second Temple Judaism at King's College, London and Honorary Professor at Australian Catholic University in Melbourne, Australia.  She is a remarkable scholar with wide-ranging expertise of the historical  Jesus, the Bible, early Christianity, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Second Temple Judaism, with special expertise in archaeology, and women's and gender studies.  I’m only going to give you a few of the titles of her many books: Christians and the Holy Places: The Myth of Jewish Christian Origins (Oxford: Clarendon, 1993; rev. ed. 2003). The Immerser: John the Baptist within Second Temple Judaism (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1997; also published as John the Baptist: A Historical Study (London: SPCK, 1997). Jewish Women Philosophers of First-Century Alexandria - Philo’s ‘Therapeutae’ Reconsidered (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003; paperback edition 2006). The Essenes, the Scrolls and the Dead Sea (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2012). What Did Jesus Look Like? (Bloomsbury T&T Clark, 2018). with David Hay, Philo of Alexandria: On the Contemplative Life (Philo of Alexandria Commentary Series, Leiden: Brill, 2021). with Helen Bond, Women Remembered: Jesus' Female Disciples (Hodder & Stoughton, 2022). And most recently, and the book we will discuss today: Boy Jesus: Growing Up Judean in Turbulent Times (Zonderban Academic, 2025). I've utilized Dr. Taylor’s research on a regular basis, especially her material on the Dead Sea Scrolls and on Philo of Alexandria and the Therapeutae. Today however we are going to be focused on her new book Boy Jesus. I found the book fascinating and challenging and I think you'll hear that as we discuss it. It’s fascinating and challenging because it asks us to use our imaginations and to take seriously the infancy narratives as containing historical memory and to ask ourselves what if these events described in the infancy narratives were based in historical events.   This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

Welcome to Episode 1of Season 4! It is amazing and wonderful to begin our 4th season! Today I speak with Dr. Fiona Li, an assistant professor and inaugural holder of the Archbishop J. Michael Miller Chair in Catholic Studies at Corpus Christi-St Mark's College. She is originally from Toronto and received her PhD in Theological Studies from Regis College and U of T. Her primary research interests lie at the intersection of feminist theology, Chinese Canadian Catholic women's experiences, and Mariology.  In today’s podcast, Dr. Li talks about her journey into the Catholic Church through RCIA and the Catholic school system in Ontario when she was a young teenager.  We discuss what does it mean to be a Catholic theologian today?  What does it mean to be a feminist Catholic theologian today?  What does it mean to be a Chinese Canadian feminist Catholic theologian today? My conversation with Fiona centred not just on these specific questions, but on the whole notion of contextual theology, such as liberation theology. Each of us has intersectional identities from which we share our experience of the universal church. As Fiona Li says, “we are here…this group of Chinese Canadian Catholic are here.” This sort of representation, done from a feminist perspective, is not intended to minimize other’s experiences, but to create representation for this particular group of women. For Dr. Li, this means using the person of Mary as Pontifex, Mary as bridge builder for Chinese women, but this does not mean Mary is simply a bridge builder for Chinese women, but that she serves as a bridge builder for all of us, as Catholics, as Mother of God, as a bridge also to Islam. It is exciting to think about Dr. Li’s further research and how she can help continue to bridge  gaps between cultures and groups and people within the Church and outside the Church. Mary, Bridging heaven and earth, and bridging in the Magnificat the word of God for us. One who, along with God, can help us bridge division and bridge relationships. And Fiona helps us see Mary as a bridge builder between Judaism, Islam, and even Buddhism in China with Kwan Yin or Guanyin Boddhisattva as Mary.  And Fiona Li, in Vancouver, the city of bridges, drawing our attention to this exciting new theological project, grounded in the long tradition of Mary, Mother of God. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement