Discourse in Magic

Learn how charging $250 per show might be hindering your path to a $100,000 magic business. Dive into the math and strategies with insights on pricing, bookings, and market positioning. Discover why sticking to traditional rates could be holding you back from financial success.

Jeki Yoo, known for crafting pop-up magic for TV and social media, shares his creative process and business insights. He discusses brainstorming ideas, organizing magical concepts, balancing passion with practical aspects of running a magic business. Touches on his iconic catchphrase 'oh my' and thoughts on the magic world's accessibility while preserving its mystery.

Limiting administrative work to 10 hours a week is key for magicians. Stop ineffective tasks, optimize effective ones with technology, and consider hiring help. Want more info? Message Jonah at magic@torontomagiccompany.com with SCALE for details

In this episode of “Discourse in Magic,” host Jonah Babins interviews Franz Harary, a renowned magician and illusion designer. Franz shares his magical journey, starting with a childhood magic set that sparked his interest in fooling adults and led to his passion for creating original illusions. A journey into magic and illusion design Franz recounts his early experiments with cardboard and duct tape, his inspiration from Doug Henning, and his innovative approach to making a car appear, which he later sold to famous magicians. He recalls a pivotal moment when, at 16, he ingeniously used perspective to make a car appear out of thin air—a method he later sold to renowned magicians like David Copperfield and Criss Angel. Working with Michael Jackson and other artists Franz also discusses his time working with Michael Jackson on the Victory Tour and his subsequent career as an illusion designer for various pop stars and Broadway shows.  This leap of faith catapulted him into the limelight, and he quickly became known as the young kid who designs illusions for the stars. Understanding one’s identity as an artist Franz emphasizes the importance of understanding who you are as a magician, the message you convey, and the need to push the boundaries of magic alongside technological advancements. For Franz, his message has been about equality and empowerment, showing audiences that they too can achieve the seemingly impossible. Pushing the art form forward Franz encourages magicians to take risks, be unique, and continually innovate. He shares a piece of advice from Michael Jackson that has become his mantra: “Whatever you do, do it differently and better than anybody else.” This is what transforms a craftsman into an artist.   ——- Franz’s only ask is that you follow him on his Facebook page – here it is: https://www.facebook.com/franzhararyfanpage/   Endless Chain Bruce Gold Mentions https://ronsaylor.com/ https://www.facebook.com/saylormagic/  

In this episode of “Discourse in Magic,” host Jonah Babins shares the exciting news about the podcast’s return. Listeners can look forward to fresh interviews and episodes covering a wide range of topics within the magic community.  Jonah’s “Fool Us” Jonah discusses his recent experiences, including his appearances on the television show “Fool Us.” He also encourages fellow magicians to seize the opportunity and apply to be on the show. Free Training Resource for Magicians A new free training resource is introduced by Jonah, designed to help magicians increase their business success. This tool is aimed at magicians looking to elevate their professional endeavors. How to get more Reviews, Referrals, and Rebookings: https://discourseinmagic.com/double-your-referrals-reviews-and-rebookings/ Growth of a Secret Magic Convention Jonah recounts the expansion of a secret magic convention, sharing insights into its development and what it offers to the magic community. Consulting Work with Asi Wind The episode delves into Jonah’s consulting work with Asi Wind, providing a glimpse into his role and contributions to the magic scene. Lectures and Performances Jonah talks about his extensive travels for lectures and performances. He shares his experiences and the knowledge he has gained from engaging with magicians around the world. Mastermind Group Invitation If you’re already at 25k per month or more in your magic business and want to scale to 6 figures and far beyond I might be able to help. Send me a message to magic@torontomagiccompany.com with the word MASTERMIND and I can walk you through what it looks like to work together and see if I can help! THANKS for returning back, it’s been a pleasure to be back in your earlobes. Looking forward to more fun together.    

Jonah returns from the wild to let you know that tomorrow, November 9 2023, he and Ben Train will be appearing for the second time on Penn & Teller’s Fool Us!   In this special magic appetizer, Jonah offers up the three biggest lessons he learned on his second appearance of Fool Us and why you should apply to appear on this show or any other. Lesson 1: Getting Back On The Show Jonah and Ben’s second appearance on Fool Us is a very different story than the first time last year. This time they had much less time to prepare and the trick they were rehearsing was originally designed for a different show altogether. Jonah shares what he and Ben had to do to apply to Fool Us, listen to the feedback from the producers, and modify what they were pitching so they’d be accepted back. Lesson 2: The Week Of Jonah and Ben made a huge mistake the week of their second appearance on Fool Us. That huge mistake was attending the Magic Live convention. It’s an amazing convention but with Fool Us on their minds neither Jonah or Ben could really enjoy the convention and with the distraction of Magic Live they weren’t able to properly prepare for their appearance on Fool Us. If he had to do it again Jonah would have made sure to keep his head clear in the week leading up to Fool Us and he offers his insight on what you should do in the final days before appearing on any show Lesson 3: The Day Of You might recall that last year when Jonah and Ben first appeared on Fool Us they had a stressful rehearsal where the ribbon they used around the watermelon broke. Back then the producers were calm and collected, offered some advice, and the two of them were able to successfully perform in front of Penn & Teller. This year they thought their rehearsal went really well but this time the producers approached them with a concern that the photographs they were using, which were integral to the entire trick, were using a colour that the cameras weren’t able to capture.    With only three hours until taping, Jonah and Ben had to scramble to create new pictures, get them printed, and all the other secret arts and crafts that had to be done to make the trick work.    So what should you do when everything starts to go wrong just before the cameras are rolling? Jonah shares his insight on those final moments on the day of their shoot.  This Friday! If you want to find out if Jonah and Ben successfully fooled Penn & Teller you can watch their appearance on tomorrow’s broadcast on The CW!   Jonah will be back to recording more interviews and lessons for you in the coming months but until then if you’re thinking of applying to appear on a show like Fool Us, you should!

In this engaging discussion, Juan Esteban Varela, a master of prop-free magic and creator of Magic in the Dark, shares his fascinating journey from a young magic enthusiast in Chile to a professional in Madrid. He explores the essence of magic beyond visuals and the power of emotional connection. Juan reveals his innovative approach of performing in total darkness, prompting listeners to rethink how perception shapes magic. He emphasizes learning through community and mentorship while passionately advocating for the transformative potential of magic.

In this magical appetizer, Jonah makes a case for counting tricks. Love them or hate them Jonah is convinced that they should be a staple trick in your roster and lays out his reasons why.  Specifically we are discussing one type of card trick, the counting card trick, where you end up counting to a number. It could be any number, a card, a position, weighing the cards, or an actual trick where you are dealing lots of cards.  Misconceptions of Counting Tricks  Maybe, when you hear counting tricks, you immediately think of some of the problematic counting tricks like the 21 Card Trick. What we are hopefully going to express to you in this episode is that most of the challenges that you have with counting tricks are actually with dealing tricks. Those are tricks where you are dealing for a long period of time without any justification for why you’re doing it. If you don’t have a reason for the actual counting through the cards then what you’re doing is boring and, for the most part, audiences are smart and they know when you are dealing through a deck, over and over and over again, that there’s some sort of mathematical mumbo jumbo going on. You probably know of a couple of tricks that are mathematical card tricks in nature, and they probably deal with lots and lots of dealing, and those are not the ones that we are making a case for. We are making a case for when you count and you get closer and closer to the number.  Embedded Suspense Jonah likes to do a multi-phase weighing the card trick where he ends up counting through more than half of the deck multiple times and people go crazy. Usually if you’re doing a card trick you want to build a little bit of suspense. Maybe someone picks a card, they shovel inside the deck, you get a card out, and then they name the card and you look at the card and maybe pause for a second and look at them. You’re trying to build this drama, trying to manufacture drama by not just turning over the dang card. If a card is at a position, like the 21st position for example, you actually have to count one by one by one to get to that position. There is no other way to get there. So instead of there being manufactured drama, which an audience can feel, now there is built in drama.  The best example outside of card magic is the nest of boxes. As you’re opening a box and a smaller box in a smaller box, in a smaller box, getting closer and closer to what is going on, there is anticipation and excitement and the suspense is building because there’s no other way for you to get to that smallest box in the middle, aside from opening the biggest and then the next, and the next, and the next. There’s no faking that kind of drama, it’s built into the magic. Becoming The Conductor  One big thing in magic that Jonah is a big fan of is the rhythm in magic. When somebody is picking a card, when you’re returning it, and when you’re building suspense, there is rhythm. Quite literally, the drama gets closer and closer and closer. You can imagine and draw out the rhythm of what a trick looks like. There’s rhythm built into different magic tricks. Imagine you tear a card once and then you tear it again and then you put your hands together and then, boom, it restores. There’s rhythm to those moments, how long you want to pause between each thing. With counting card tricks you become the conductor of that rhythm. You can decide at what pace you are getting towards the punchline, the climax. You get to conduct the rhythm of how people respond. You can get louder as you get closer to the number or you can go slower as you get closer to the number. The point is, you can really decide how people are experiencing the punchline of this trick. If the card is the 30th, you have to deal 30 cards. There’s no other way to get there but you can decide exactly how you want to arrive there and take the audience with you. Invite Jonah To Your Next Magic Lecture This episode is an excerpt from Jonah’s lecture notes, which you can only see if he lectures in your city. So if you want Jonah to lecture in your city, and you want to get some lecture notes, then you can send an e-mail to magic@torontomagiccompany.com and we will see if we can make our way to your city in 2024.

Jonah is joined by Dustin Dean, an incredible mentalist who you may have seen on your TikTok feed. He has over half a million followers and countless videos with millions of views. In this conversation we’ll learn all about his success, how you can get into growing your social media presence, and how to thread the line between fooling your audience and being honest with them. The Mentalist on The Screen Dustin’s first influential exposure and interest in magic really came into focus when he encountered one of Darren Brown’s television shows. Seeing someone call themselves a mentalist and appear to explain the method of what they were doing was the catalyst for Dustin into understanding all the possibilities that magic could express itself as.   Most of the early magic that Dustin learned was through YouTube and in the beginning it was just Dustin and the internet. It was there that he learned his first card tricks before being introduced to magic clubs and the wider world of the magical community.   His big break came from a haircut where, while showing off what we could do to the staff at the barber shop, an agent happened to be there who was looking for more acts to book for the college circuit. You Don’t Have To Be A Magician (To Go Viral) At first Dustin threw himself into social media magic but now he’s mostly known on social media as one who debunks psychics and he’s learned that he doesn’t have to be so restricted to grow on social media. In his conversation with Jonah he shares the lessons and insights he’s learned creating multiple accounts and seeing many of his posts grow to millions of views with millions of followers. Does his social media footprint translate into bookings? Not exactly but Dustin explains how he views his social media work and how it can surprise him in the long run what doors it’s been able to open and what clients he’s been able to secure.  The Honest Liars Dustin has a massive following for his debunking of physics and mediums. Why does he feel so driven to do all the research to expose them? And what does he think about other mentalists who don’t warn their audiences that what they are experiencing is not actually real?  Dustin has given a lot of thought into the ethics of mentalism and it’s effect on how it shapes the thoughts of people in the audience and he dives deep with Jonah into the world of debunking and mentalism and lets us into his reasons into why he does what he does.   Wrap-Up Endless Chain Joel Myers What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? It’s getting more thinking about how it’s done or how it could be possible. Because of Google and social media a lot of people are figuring out how magic tricks work. This is not to say that exposure for the sake of exposure is a good thing but it is nice to see people learning and showing interest and, in a way, pushing magic forward to think of new avenues and ways to fool people. It’s not great that there is so much exposure just for the attention. Exposure videos are a very low level form of attention. It’s an easy dumb way to get views and attention and doesn’t really add much value.  Plugs Dustin can be found everywhere with the same handle @DustinDeanMentalist. You can find him on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and at dustindeanmentalist.com

In this magic appetizer Jonah offers up three ways that you can grow your business to making more than 3k a month in the next six months. In the past Jonah has taught master classes and entry-level classes for magicians looking to increase their business and in this episode he’s going to share his insights on the three biggest mistakes that new magicians make when starting their business and what fixes you can do so that you can be well on your way.  Mistake #1: Pricing This is one of the most common mistakes that magicians are making. They’re charging something like $200 or $150 for their gigs. The problem with this is that it is very hard to reach critical mass. It’s very hard to get to $3,000 a month at $300 bookings. You need to do 10 shows a month and 10 shows a month is a lot, especially if you are getting started. The only magicians that get away with charging two, three, or even four hundred are the ones that are doing countless kids parties every single weekend, like four a weekend or more, because that’s the only way that they can actually make those numbers.  If you are getting started, you should aim at the $500 to $1000 range. The reality is that you can now get to your 3k to 5k a month in three to six bookings a month. If people are inquiring and asking you about your rates you should start at $500 and work your way up to $1000. You can do this by slowly increasing your rates. You can do this by having multiple different packages and multiple offerings, like a short show and a long show, or a show plus mingling magic. You can come up with some different options, but aim at the $500 to $1000 per gig range. That way you get it done in three to five gigs a month.  The only thing that’s stopping you from charging $500 to $1000 per gig is in your head. The key to actually getting to critical mass, to getting enough gigs under your belt, is to make enough per gig so that it is worth your while and you can actually start this part-time business.  Mistake #2: Your Leads Leads is another word for the inquiries or people asking about you or anybody who wants to hire you for a magic show. One of the biggest challenges with magicians who are getting started is that their way of getting leads is by crossing their fingers and hoping. That is not a way to generate bookings or a way to bring people into your world. There are tons of practical, tactical ways to get people into your universe, but you have to be doing them.  Some common, popular ways to get leads include mail outreach, cold calling, Google Ads, SEO (Search Engine optimization), generating content for your socials, signing up to gig sites, and Facebook ads. If you pick just one of them and do it every single day for 30 days you’ll have a terrific source for generating leads.  Mistake #3: Marketing Material Far too many magicians websites have one of these two big no-nos. First is a random headshot. Just photos of yourself with spread cards or cards in your hands does nothing for you. It won’t convince anybody that you are good at this. Second are stock photos of magicians and top hats and things that aren’t you. You probably don’t use a top hat when you do your gigs, you probably don’t dress in a tuxedo, and you probably do not have a rabbit.  Instead, what they’re looking to see is actual photos of you doing the thing. If you’re pitching yourself to do company events, it’s photos of you working at company events. If you’re pitching yourself to do bar mitzvahs and weddings, it’s photos of you doing bar mitzvahs and weddings. If you’re pitching to do birthday parties, you get the idea. You need photos of that. How do you get those photos? A million ways. Bring a photographer, ask the people there to take photos, take some photos yourself, bring a friend with you to take some photos with you. There are unlimited ways to do it and the same thing applies to video. One short video of you actually performing for the target market is going to do so much work. It’s gonna help you so much. The clients need proof, and if you’re charging now more than you would’ve been charging before, then one of the big things you’re going to need is proof. Do not fill your website with random headshot photos that you did with a photographer. Do not fill your website with stock photos of magicians. Fill your website with photos of you doing the thing for the people you do the thing for, and videos of you doing the thing for the people that you do the thing for. Level Up Your Magic Business  Those are the three biggest areas that you should be working on to get you to 3-5k a month. If you’re already at 3-5k a month and you want to get to six figures a year, you can send Jonah an email to magic@torontomagiccompany.com with the word “Mastermind” and you can talk with him about working together and seeing if he can get you there faster.