Discourse in Magic

Jay Sankey sits down with Jonah for episode 147 to discuss magic online, creating and persuasive communication. Not only does Jay hold the world record for creating the most original illusions, but he runs a successful YouTube channel, is an international public speaker, comedian, performer, and consultant. Jay’s interest in magic started when his grandmother gave him a magic set for his eleventh birthday. However, she had picked up the magic set during a European tour, so the instructions were in German. From the get-go, Jay had to develop his own way to perform tricks. He kept with magic because it was something that he wasn’t necessarily good with at first but he had the drive to improve. As he continued with it, he found it was a way for him to show his awkward self without having to actually reveal his actual self; he found that lay people were happy to accept the cardboard cut out of what a magician is perceived to be. Jay began performing at birthdays and in church basements when he was fifteen. When he won the award for close-up magic at Tannen’s Magic Camp, Jay believed that his fate was sealed. Although he did attend the University of Toronto to study philosophy and psychology so that he could go into advertising, Jay was deep into magic. Persuasive Communication Alongside his magic, Jay is an international public speaker who presents on and runs workshops for persuasive communication. Using his background in marketing and ad copy, Jay explains how people’s choices are primarily driven by their emotions as much as the ideas they’re presented with. His core goal when approaching copywriting is directing the audience to a certain collection of emotions but allowing them enough room to apply their imagination; you are inspiring the audience to create their own interpretation which is a concept that can be applied to presenting magic. Jay goes on to explain how communication, especially in our current landscape, is about brevity. If you don’t grab the audience’s attention right off the back, you have nothing. However, simply getting their attention isn’t enough. You need to get their attention while remaining on brand. When you do get their attention, you have the opportunity to continue to sell yourself and your magic. From there, it’s about finding a throughline that allows you to transition from trick to trick without losing the audience. Teaching Magic Online Jay began to put magic on YouTube after realizing that he isn’t thrilled with where magic is today. The often condescending and dismissive nature towards magic by the general public, and the confusion between an amateur and a veteran performer, frustrates him. With this as his basis, Jay figured he needed to do something to change how magic is viewed. His question is not “should these secrets be revealed?’ but “how and where should these secrets be revealed?” Secrets like a thumb tip or invisible thread are not the real secrets of magic to Jay. The secrets of magic come in the form of the psychology and theory behind the tricks that employ these tools. However, most people aren’t concerned with this content when they’re trying to discover these tricks online. By teaching magic on YouTube, he has the opportunity to distill the important information alongside the usage of magic tools by bringing his own authenticity to teaching the material. His belief is that if there is going to be bad magic, he might as well balance it out with his knowledge and appreciation for the art. Overall, Jay wants to move the art of magic forward. He wants to improve how it is viewed by the general public, and this is his way of helping that cause. Creating Magic When you’re creating magic, you need to consider your relationship to your ideas, Jay says. If you are judging your ideas and comparing them to others, you’re going to find it difficult to create. Creating is about expressing who you are and how you relate to magic. You need to be able to give yourself permission to write down your ideas and allow them to develop over time. Additionally, don’t put your ideas on a pedestal as it will only halt your creative process. Jay doesn’t mind that people are doing his tricks the way he does them because he understands not everyone can create magic. However, when someone expresses an interest in creating their own magic to show themselves, Jay wants to encourage that desire. Jay goes on to remind people that just because you’re performing an already created or established trick, you shouldn’t stop yourself from bringing in your own personality and interpretation to the actual performance. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Richard Sanders David Acer Mike Scott What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate about 2018 magic? Jay likes the fact that we are being exposed to different, interesting personalities in magic. The growing diversity in magic is fantastic and is causing magic to move away from the narrow representation we often see. Jay doesn’t like the culture of stylization that we have moved into and how there is a lot of magic that is made exclusively for camera. There is a lot of content that is obviously stooged and rigged that is being represented as magic. He isn’t a fan of the confusion this brings. Take Home Point Jonah liked the overlap copywriting/marketing has with magic, and how we should be focus on staying on brand. Jay liked the idea of finding and following your joy in magic, and not getting caught up in other things. He reminds everyone that we all generally got into magic because of joyful, goal free reasons. Plugs Jay’s Instagram Jay’s Youtube Sankey Talks

Jonah sits down with Haim Goldenberg to discuss the business of magic, taking risks and finding your character for episode 146. Haim is an Israeli-Canadian mentalist who is behind Cryptext and the show Goldmind. The first magician Haim saw was Uri Geller. Wanting to be like Uri, young Haim spent his time trying to bend spoons with his mind and hypnotizing people in the streets.  Over time, he learned that Uri’s powers weren’t real and that he needed to learn magic to pull off the miracles he saw on television. Haim spent several years performing as a magician, primarily for kids shows, before switching fully to mentalism. While mentalism became his career, magic still remains his hobby. Taking Risks If you want to succeed, you need to be willing to adapt and change yourself to better suit the demands of your audience, Haim says. It is difficult to succeed if you don’t take risks. Switching to solely performing mentalism for adults was a huge risk for him. When he quit performing magic at kids shows, Haim took a financial hit during his first six months as he reestablished himself.  However, he eventually started getting the shows that he wanted to perform and is now successful as a mentalist. The major risk he took in changing his performance style allowed him to succeed in an area that was truer to his character. Finding your Character When you’re performing, people are there to see you, they’re not there to just see magic tricks, so it’s important to find out who you are on stage. From there, you can determine what magic suits your character and how you can bring your own personality into the tricks you’re performing. To uncover your character, you have to remain true to yourself. Don’t try to be like other magicians or performers on stage that you admire as it won’t be authentic. While you can play a character on stage, it needs to be a character that you created. The only way to improve and understand who you are on stage is performing. Experience is the most important aspect in becoming a better magician as you can’t improve if you don’t perform. Overall, don’t try to impress your audience. You, as a person, are not trying to impress people in your everyday life, and you should be like that on stage. You want your audience to have fun with you, and Haim believes that the audience will love you because they want to love you. Magic as a Business When you’re starting out, money should not be your focus. Your focus should be on developing yourself and getting to a point where you can begin to raise your costs to better match your skill level. Haim emphasizes that you need to be aware of what you’re worth and that you should raise your costs in reasonable increments. While you may be a good magician, you may not be great at the business or marketing aspects. It may be beneficial for you to find the right person who is able to sell you. If you are a professional, Haim recommends committing 90% of your time to marketing and 10% to practicing magic. After you perform, you should try to remain attached to your clients by keeping in touch with them. People may love you, but they will forget about you so reaching out to them will help keep you in their minds when they need an entertainer. Creating for Television Creating a television show is a huge undertaking and is the second risk Haim took in his career. When creating the pilot for Goldmind, Haim used his life savings to fund the episode; he vowed to quit magic if a producer didn’t pick the show up. After sending the pilot episode around to various studios, it was picked up for thirteen episodes. Haim goes on to explain that his show succeeded because of his character. Referencing Justin Willman’s show Magic for Humans, Haim explains that a character is what separates you from other shows and makes the audience want to return. Just because you’re good onstage, doesn’t mean you’re good on television. A successful show requires directors and consultants who understand how television works and how to adapt your magic for the medium. Haim believes that if you want to succeed on television, you need to learn how to listen to professionals in the field.   Wrap Up What do you like about 2018/19 magic? What do you hate? Haim likes how fast pace everything has become. Additionally, he likes how connected the world is as you can see so many magicians that you may have otherwise never seen. Haim dislikes how people have become lazy because they can get whatever they like when they want it. He feels people aren’t putting in the time and effort to learn. Endless Chain Lior Manor Nimrod Harel Amir Lustig Lior Suchard Take Home Point Jonah liked the idea of not being lazy and putting in the necessary effort to improve your magic. Haim liked the idea of going out and finding places to perform to gain experience. Plugs Cryptext 2 Goldmind Website Instagram

To start off 2019, Jonah sits down with Steve Shaw, better known as Banachek, to discuss mentalism, the ethics behind deception, and parapsychology. Banachek is one of the world’s leading mindreaders who has helped debunk psychic claims, created effects for leading performers and is sought after by venues around the world for his performances. When Banachek started, he wasn’t aware that there was a subsection of magic called mentalism. He just knew there were psychics fooling people with tricks. Banachek, born in England before emigrating to South Africa, had a troubled childhood which saw him raising his two younger brothers. This prevented him from developing his social skills alongside other children. He was the kid in the back of the class who was afraid of being called on. When he was raising his brothers, he would always try to instill the value of fairness in them. He wanted them to know right from wrong–a value he still holds dear to this day. Project Alpha Project Alpha was a four-year-long hoax that involved planting Banachek and Michael Edwards in a parapsychology research project to demonstrate that it is possible to fake psychic powers in a controlled environment. Banachek initially went in believing it to be an “I’m against them” scenario to prove that the proper protocols were not being followed by the scientists. However, he eventually came to the realization that things weren’t necessarily black and white; the scientists weren’t evil, they were just imposing their own beliefs on the trials and believing they could not be fooled. Before the project began, James Randi sent the scientists a list of eleven caveats to follow so that they could truly test the psychic claims of Banachek and Edwards. The scientists dismissed the suggestions, saying that Banachek and Edwards would be unable to perform under such conditions. During the project, Banachek would write letters to Randi explaining how they would manipulate the tests; Randi would then inform the scientists that they should look out for these exact methods during their experiments. The scientists would, again, dismiss the suggestions. Overall, the project revealed that we can be fooled and that we need to be more open to the idea that we can be fooled. This focus on critical thinking is something that Banachek still tries to instill in people today.   Deception of Mentalism Banachek believes that the difference between a psychic and a mentalist is that the mentalist doesn’t claim to have real psychic power. He, as a mentalist, is taking the five known senses to create the illusion of a sixth sense. In terms of if we are lying to the audience, Banachek says that “a lie is a lie is a lie.” If you tell your audience that everything is pure psychology, you leave it open to people to expose that you are lying which will affect how other performers are viewed. When he was starting out, he would say he was using magic and tricks in his performance, only to be told by other mentalists that cheapens the art. Banachek never understood why, as the essence of what they’re doing is fake. At the moment, they are duplicating psychic phenomena, but, when you’re off stage, you don’t want to leave the door open for people to make their own assumptions about what actually occurred as it can lead the spectator to dangerous assumptions. This is why Banachek will constantly reinforce the idea that what he’s doing isn’t real which, in a way, makes his effects stronger as the audience is thinking “how could you have possibly known” compared to “he’s a real psychic.” To him, telling people that what he is doing is fake comes from an ethical standpoint because he sees himself as an authoritative figure on stage; people don’t know what to expect when they go to a mentalism show, so they’re going to believe whatever it is he tells them if he’s convincing enough. Pseudoscience & Magic You are not going to convince everyone that pseudoscience is fake, especially if you are hostile in confronting people. What you can do is talk about pseudoscience on the correct platforms to inform people and get them thinking critically about what they’re being told. Banachek goes on to explain that we should be focusing on the larger mediums as they’re the ones influencing the masses; we can use their publicity to educate people. If we are to educate on a smaller level, it shouldn’t be confrontational or else people will put up a wall. It’s better to have an educated discussion to understand their viewpoint. You can’t just think everyone is stupid because they don’t know what you know. Banachek highlights his show Telepathy as an example of how he approaches educating people. During the first half, he comes out as psychic to build the same emotional reaction the audience would have if they went to see a psychic.  In the second half of the show, he comes out to inform the audience that what he did was all fake. He wants the audience to know that they can be fooled and that they shouldn’t believe blindly. He wants the audience to know that they don’t need to necessarily change their views, they just need to realize that there are those who will take advantage of their beliefs.   Million Dollar Challenge The JREF offered one million dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under scientific testing conditions — the test was terminated in 2015 but Banachek says it will likely be coming back in a different form. The difficult part about conducting the claims was coming up with a test that was agreeable to science and the psychic. When they conducted the tests, they wanted the subject to succeed, but they needed the participant to succeed under the proper test conditions. No one was ever able to pass the preliminary stages.     Believability and Criss Angel When he was working with Criss Angel, the goal was to create believable magic; it’s not a good trick if it doesn’t look real. When he was creating effects for the show, they would come up with 300 tricks per season and then they would have to quickly figure out presentation and method as they had a tight filming window. Often, they were restricted by the environment. Banachek knew that they didn’t have to stooge things for the effect to be fooling on some level, so he took advantage of the medium. Editing allowed them to hide methods that would otherwise be exposed on television, or they could block the show in a way to avoid exposed angles. These methods, Banachek said, are similar to blocking a routine on a stage. He wants the audience at home to have a similar experience to the participants in real life, so he took advantage of the medium. Banachek goes on to explain that there are always going to be purists who see certain methods as dirty or impure. However, magicians are in the business of deceit, so it’s difficult to say what is and isn’t a dirty method when it comes to trickery. By going online to expose other magicians for using “dirty methods” they’re hurting the art form as a whole, not just the singular performer. Once you have people thinking a magician uses a particular method, they’ll begin to think that’s how all magicians approach the effect.   Wrap-Up How has the audience changed? Banachek hasn’t necessarily seen a change in his audience, but he has noticed that people are attending more live performances for the uniqueness of the experience. Endless Chain Andrew Gerard Take Home Point Jonah likes the idea of leaving the audience better off than when he found them.   Banachek likes the idea of not attacking people when you want to educate them. Tyas liked talking about how magicians are often cannibalizing the culture and how people tend to discredit methods and other performers. He wants people to be building the artform, not stifling it. Last Words Be positive about magic. When you knock down another magician, you’re tearing down yourself, and you’re knocking down the art form. Plugs Banachek’s Brain – Podcast Website Instagram Twitter  

New year, new magic! To ring in the new year, Jonah sits down with Ben Train, Chris Mayhew, and Jacque Swan to discuss their magic highlights and lowlights from 2018, and what they plan to change for the upcoming year. Contest Winner Jonah would like to thank everyone who entered the contest. With 614 individuals who entered the contest, and a total of 7,271 total entries, you have made this the largest contest Discourse in Magic has ever put on. But, now, the moment you’ve been waiting for. The winner is: @alexbowden52  Congratulations! Thank you again to everyone who entered! Highlights Ben: The shows he put on through the Toronto Magic Company were highlights for him. He is proud of what they were able to accomplish and how the company developed throughout the year. As a personal highlight, he was honoured to have been able to perform at the Chicago Magic Lounge. Chris: Consulting on his first TV show, called the Thrillusionists, was the biggest highlight for him this year. Not only did he get to marry his passions of filming and magic, but he was able to see how to execute a major project. His second highlight was finally seeing the fruits of his labour come to fruition, as he finally released his deck of cards: Leon Playing Cards. Jacque: Taking up coin magic was her highlight in 2018. It helped her further her studies of magic, and she doesn’t believe she would be as into the community if it wasn’t for coin magic. Jonah: Newest Trick becoming a weekly show was his highlight this year. Not only did it allow him to up his number of performances, but it helped foster a magic community that has allowed him and other Toronto magicians to grow. Lowlights Ben: Over the past year, he spent a lot of time focusing his time and energy on projects outside of his personal show. Due to this, he feels like his personal show has fallen behind in terms of quality, and he isn’t exactly excited to perform it now. Chris: In a sense, taking a year off performing was a lowlight. It was odd not performing after doing it for so long. This decision came from him feeling like his old character was not working for him, and he felt like the effects were married to this character. However, by taking a step back he was able to realize that he loves performing and gained a new perspective on who he is as a performer. Jacque: She regrets not showing people the material she has been working on and regressing back to her social anxiety tendencies. When she does show her material, she often only shows effects that she is confident in performing rather than new material. Jonah: He didn’t take seriously the sheer amount of creativity required to complete all the projects he took on this year. 2019 Magic Resolution Ben: Last year, his goal was to focus on creating more original magic. However, he didn’t perform a lot of the material he developed. This year, he vows to implement his changes rather than just talk about them. Chris: He plans to start performing again now that he’s taken time off. Jacque: Her goal is to figure out who she is and how this relates to her performance. Jonah: He feels that his character has developed over the past year so some of the magic he is currently doing doesn’t necessarily fit with who he has become. In the new year, he plans to look at who he has become and what magic better suits this new character. Words of Wisdom Ben: “I don’t have to be here, I get to be here.” Chris: “Just enjoy doing things.” Jacque: “Don’t be afraid to show people what you’re working on.” Jonah: You need to actually do more than just read and watch magic. You need to actively implement your ideas and what you’re learning to actually grow in your magic.

Pipo Villanueva joins Jonah for episode 143 to discuss adding impact to your magic. Pipo is a magician from Spain who has performed at the Magic Castle and is known for performing impactful effects. Pipo started fairly late in magic. In his mid-twenties, he became frustrated with music and changed course to pursue magic. He had always worked with his hands and needed a creative outlet that would allow him to explore the world. Magic became the art form he chose to pursue. His interest in magic was the intellectual, puzzle solving side and coming up with ideas. Living in Madrid, he had the opportunity to meet, arguably, some of the most skilled and knowledgeable close-up magicians who helped him grow. From day one, magic was a career for him. Over time he would eventually grow more serious about magic as his connection to the community became deeper. It became a basic part of his life that helped him understand himself better. Frustrations and Failures Pipo explains how frustration and failure is a necessary part of the process. You have to accept that magic will highlight your worst qualities, and you will need to confront them if you want to improve. Simply ignoring the issues will result in you either stagnating or quitting magic altogether. When Pipo was starting out, he would have conversations with magicians and see people perform, only to think to himself that he wasn’t going anywhere with what he was currently doing. It was in these moments, the ones where he failed or became frustrated with the art he was putting out, that he learned the most. These moments helped him find the way that was right for him. Authentic Magic An authentic connection with the audience is built when the artist does something that is meaningful to the performer and the audience, Pipo explains. People are interested in people; they want to see you, and you want them to leave with a sense of who you are after the show is over. You shouldn’t be trying to put together an act that is deliberately trying to touch the audience’s heartstrings as it will not be authentic. It may work at some level, but you won’t be establishing a real connection with the audience. Pipo goes on to say that, while you shouldn’t pander to your audience, you shouldn’t ignore them either. Magic is not about having superpowers. It’s about celebrating the intelligence of the audience. You need to provide meaningful connections within your act so that the audience can create the effect. It is up to the performer to craft the psychological state of the spectator so they can fully experience your magic. The audience should be allowed to watch a four phase routine without knowing that the routine is going to have four phases; they should be able to experience the suspense while piecing together the puzzle. Plot Structure Every effect you perform should be connected to a deeper idea that will resonate with the audience. However, this idea is implicit, not explicit, and is meant to bring meaning to what you’re performing. When crafting his material, Pipo believes the less information the better. If you throw out too much information, it becomes meaningless to the audience as you are pulling away from the point you are trying to communicate. Wrap-Up Recommendation Luis Olmedo Miguel Muñoz What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate about 2018 magic? Pipo loves that Derek DelGaudio’s show, In & Of Itself, was able to happen. Pipo dislikes the lack of good magic exposure. Most of the magic in media is built on manufacturing conditions and reactions. However, he believes in counter-attacking this with good material. What was your favourite part of the episode? Jonah liked the idea of being authentic in your magic and being conscious of the connection between the expression of the artist with the audience’s understanding of said expression. Pipo highlights the idea that you’re doing something wrong if the audience doesn’t have a sense of who you are after your performance. Word of Wisdom Put the best of yourself in the magic you do. It’s relevant and makes a difference to put yourself in your magic. Plugs Learn Magic by Pipo Villanueva Pipo’s Blog Instagram

Episode 142 is a new take on the catch-up episodes. In the first half, Jonah is addressing a topic in the magic community which has been a part of many recent discussions: Magic exposure online. In the second half, he sits down with his writer and editor, Jacque Swan, to discuss magic in Toronto and behind the scenes of the podcast. Part 1 Exposure Online Discourse in Magic has always vouched for being positive about the future. As the internet changes the way we interact and share content with each other, Jonah believes that we need to take a “yes and” approach to magic online. To him, it is not rational to believe that we can completely stop magic from being exposed online. The logical approach would be to embrace technology and help establish how secrets are shared online. What Shouldn’t be Exposed It should go without saying that you shouldn’t be exposing tricks someone else has published. That is their livelihood and their reputation that is being exposed alongside their effect. However, there are tricks that may be considered “public domain” due to the number of times they have been taught. The French Drop, the salt shaker through the table, these are simple tricks that people learn as kids that may spark someone’s interest in magic. Young People Paying Their Dues The internet, like the library or your local magic store, has become another resource for people to use to learn and further their magic. To claim that young people are not struggling to find and learn secrets is inaccurate; they still need to watch hours upon hours of video to even begin to understand magic much in the same way previous generations had to read dozens of books. If you speak to a young person in magic, you will find that they are knowledgeable about their field and have been putting in the effort; they just happen to be excelling at a faster rate than what was previously possible. Your Magic Online People fear the idea that their magic is going to be exposed online. They’re afraid that after their performance people will pull out their phones and Google the method for the effect. Yes. This will, unfortunately, happen every once in a while, but the response to this should not be “magic shouldn’t be shown online,” it should be “how can I make my magic un-Googleable?” Jonah refers to the article by the Jerx for ideas on how to elevate your magic beyond search terms. We should be trying to elevate our magic beyond the standard fair rather than trying to fight against something we cannot stop. The Nuance of Magic Online We shouldn’t be saying “magic shouldn’t be online” because, unfortunately, it is going to be exposed. It is going to be exposed by performers, by the very people selling magic, and by people who have no business in magic. So, we should be asking how we can take control of how magic is being distributed online. What can be exposed? What shouldn’t be exposed? Who are the teachers we should be directing people to? We should be encouraging people towards the correct resources rather than demonizing the whole concept of magic online. Part 2 Jacque Swan, the writer and editor for the podcast, sits down with Jonah for the second half to discuss magic in Toronto and behind the scenes of the podcast.  Jacque has only recently joined the Toronto magic scene, but she has been coming in and out of learning magic since she was five years old. She didn’t learn there was a magic community until she stepped foot in Browers Den of Magic four years ago. When she’s not spending her time learning/watching magic, she’s a freelance writer who is attending school for Broadcast-Television Production. Women in Magic The two briefly discuss Jacque’s experience as a female in the Toronto magic community. She highlights how accommodating most of the magicians have been to helping her find solutions and how welcoming they have been. Continuing from this idea, she explains how she likes that people are treating her like “one of the boys” rather than an outsider who could be potentially scared off. Felice Ling, part-time performer from Boston, recently performed on Newest Trick and blew away everyone in attendance with her performance. Jonah came up with a new term for what she did–Magic Foreplay–as she interspersed little effects throughout her prediction routine; from beginning to end, Felice captivated the audience. Young People in Magic Jonah wanted to recognize that there have been a lot of young people coming out to TMC shows and going to the magic shop; he also wants to recognize that the Toronto magic community has really stepped up to help them learn. He highlights two kids in particular who demonstrate why we should be inviting young people into magic rather than pushing them away. Behind the Scenes Jacque explains that the audience only loses out on about 10% of the conversation. She mainly removes long pauses, “ums” and tangents that stray too far from the original point.  You may lose some gems, but they are necessary to strengthen the episodes. Wrap-Up What are your top episodes? Jacque: Ed Kwon, Carisa Hendrix, Suzanne, Garrett Thomas Having consumed so much magic in the past year, what advice do you have? Jacque: Do what feels right for you. Learn the basics and the fundamentals, but from there, perform what feels right for you.    

After several recommendations, Joe Diamond finally sits down with Jonah for episode 141 to discuss ritualistic magic, believability, and engaging your audience. Joe is a mentalist based in Illinois who delves into the weird side of life through his magic. He has headlined at the Chicago Magic Lounge, performed alongside David Parr, and hosts a weekly show called The 13th Hour. Joe’s introduction to magic is fairly standard. He was intrigued by the David Copperfield specials and received magic kits as a kid. However, it was not the puzzle side to magic that drew him in; it was the magic side of magic. Magic was a way for him to bring the weird and impossible things he loved to life. After seeing the first World’s Greatest Magic, he realized he didn’t have to do large stage illusions and could do effects that let him express his interests. When he was seventeen, he worked at Six Flags performing seven hours a day for three or four days a week. During his time at the park, he was able to go out to try everything from mentalism to card magic to geek magic. His learning wasn’t isolated to a single vein of tricks. During this time, he also had the opportunity to fly to Toronto and work with Jay Sankey on a video called Underground Jam; this would eventually lead to them working on future projects together and becoming friends. Joe only completed one year of college before realizing he was making enough money by performing magic. However, his decision to become a full-time magician was just before the 2018 financial crisis. Fortunately, he was able to adapt his mentalism and approach to marketing his shows to make it through the recession as a fulltime performer.  The 13th Hour The 13th Hour is Joe’s weekly show for thirteen people. What started as a one-off show before he went on tour quickly became a weekly event as people in the area continued to show interest in coming out to the experience. The 13th Hour is held in a reportedly haunted mansion which has been turned into an artist space. Joe has a yearly lease with the building to rent out one of the studios which is where he performs the show–a show that has been tailored for that specific venue. The intimate studio allows for him and thirteen guests to see and experience the magic with each other. Starting with traditional mind reading, Joe slowly moves into more esoteric tricks before convincing the audience that time travel is real. Believability First, Joe believes you should stop doing disclaimers at the beginning of your show. He views it as being condescending to your audience and underestimating their intelligence. By giving a disclaimer, you are not setting up a world that will draw them in, but, rather, telling them how to experience what they’re about to see. If you approach your show wanting the audience to believe you have some gift, you are limiting yourself in what you can perform. This is why Joe has replaced the idea of believability with the idea of being “engaged with the premise.” Believability doesn’t matter if the audience isn’t engaged with what you’re doing; you should be going down the rabbit hole together. If you want your audience to believe in a concept like time travel, you need to build towards that, progressing your effects so that the audience is on your side by the time you reach the finale of the show. Categories of Performances When approaching performances, Joe breaks down effects into three different categories: Ritual Effects: A ritual effect follows the formula of A+B=C. A good example is his trick Diamond Jacks: the spectator needs a good luck charm, he has a good luck charm, they perform the effect. Setup and Payoff: Joe credits Carissa Hendrix for this definition. Much like how a joke has a setup and payoff, so do many tricks. Picking a card is your setup, finding the card is your payoff. One Act Play: Joe credits David Parr for this definition. You can approach your performance like a play where you have characters, conflicts and a plot surrounding your effect. Joe goes on to explain that you can do three pick-a-card tricks with these three styles and your audience will experience different effects. Wrap-Up What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate about 2018 magic? Joe explains how magic has given him so much, and how he is delighted to see kids still reading and learning from books. He is not a fan of how people are hung up on online exposure. While he agrees that exposure can be bad, he reminds people that you can find a lot of these secrets at local libraries. Joe goes on to explain that you should be making your performance so captivating that people are Googling you after the show, not your methods. Recommendations Jay Sankey Ross Johnson Christopher Carter Christian Cagigal Bill Cook Brian Brushwood Plugs Joe’s Instagram Joe’s YouTube Joe’s Website Journal of Alchemy Underground Jam Resources Mentioned Absolute Magic by Derren Brown Definitive Sankey by Andi Gladwin and Joshua Jay Spirit Theatre by Eugene Burger Magician Business Podcast Successful Performercast  

Jonah sits down with Zivi Kivi for episode 140 to talk the business of performing. Zivi is not only a children’s entertainer, but he operates several podcasts like the Balloon Artist Podcast, Generous Podcast, and the Magician Business Podcast while also instructing with the Kids Entertainer Academy.   Zivi’s interest in magic started while he working in Japan as a software developer sent over from Israel.  While in a toy store, he saw the invisible deck performed and immediately purchased the trick. On the plane ride home, he discovered the instructions were all in Japanese; he ended up sharing the experience of learning the trick with a passenger who spoke Japanese and English. Over time, his interest in magic and performance developed. Soon, magic became something Zivi wanted to pursue full time, so over the next eight years, he slowly built a reliable business. With a background in business, Zivi thought he was set to succeed in the entertainment world, only to quickly learn that the business of magic is drastically different from selling marketing software solutions. His journey to improve led him to discover the  Magician Business Podcast which radically changed his approach to marketing his services. The Ten Percent Rule As Zivi continued developing his business, he realized that applying an extra ten percent of his time to a task would scale the vale he received from said task. For example, if he is performing, he can film and edit a quick summary of the event which he can send to future clients. By applying an extra twenty minutes, he is able to create an additional resource for marketing his business. Zivi emphasizes that there is always one more thing you can do to achieve this ten percent. Ten Hour Principle Having worked with performs from around the world, Zivi noticed that everyone shares the same problems. He began to note how people approached solving the issues and began to apply these tactics to his own teachings, which led to him developing the eight marketing tactics: Search Engine Optimization (SEO) Ad words Paid and unpaid Facebook marketing Instagram Email Champion building system tactics (focus is on creating and driving fans) Cold calling and outreach Ninja tactics (leveraging connections and networking) The ten-hour principle comes into play when you choose one of these tactics and focus on it for ten hours each week. By spending ten hours a week on one thing, Zivi says, you can reach a tipping point with your marketing where you’ll begin to see results; he says that most people follow marketing tips but don’t apply enough time to see results.to see results. He goes on to say that if you’re not happy with the results, you can always change next week, but you need to focus and get to the point where your marketing is productive and efficient. Eventually, as you learn what does and doesn’t work for you, you will have developed processes and systems that will allow you to achieve the same results in an hour; you just need to learn what works for you first. You will need to measure your results and understand the numbers to figure out where your time is best spent. By measuring what you get out of ten hours, you will understand where to focus. Failure Marketing & Ten Mistakes You need to plan for failure, Zivi says. By embracing the things that don’t work, you can learn from your mistakes and improve your approach to marketing. If you don’t see results after spending a few ten-hour slots on something, then go back to the list of eight to find an approach that may work better for you. Zivi goes on to break down the ten mistakes he made when he was starting out, reminding the audience that what didn’t work for him may still work for you. Branding his car: the branding on his car had no call to action and no way to track how many people were actually seeing it. Purchased too much: he had to throw away thousands in materials because he overestimated the amount of time he would have for tricks and what he would need. Ad words: he entered into a competition with his friend to see who could get the higher ranking. They spent a fortune during the competition buying competitive ad words rather than focusing on cheaper, niche keywords. 90-day social challenge: he did a 90-day social challenge where he posted for 90 days straight. While he had nice graphics and stories, he wasn’t being social in his posts and interconnecting with people on the platform. Water bottles: he had a plan to hand out silicone water bottles with his branding so that kids would be hydrated. The bottles got confiscated at customs which would have required him to pay a hefty fee to prove they were safe.  Not practicing practice: he was not practicing in an effective manner to truly improve his skill to amaze his customers. Not developing one more skill: he wishes that he could add one more amazing skill to his repertoire to accompany his balloon and magic skills. Backlinks: he didn’t understand the importance of backlinks for SEO and how 25% of your SEO should be dedicated to legitimate backlinks. Health: up until six months ago, he wasn’t being conscious of his body’s importance. Balancing wife and kids: he realized that fixing the balance between his work and home life gave him a sense of security. Wrap-Up What do you like about magic in 2018? What do you hate? Zivi isn’t actively looking into the magic trends. However, he has been interested in and enjoying close-up magic. Recommendation Matan Rosenberg Take Home Points Jonah enjoyed the part about diving into magic full time and taking an honest look at how you spend the hours in your day. Zivi enjoyed the overall theme of being an eternal learner and being open to new concepts. Resources Mentioned Smart Passive Income with Pat Flynn The One Thing by Gary Keller Willpower Doesn’t Work by Benjamin Hardy Plugs Instagram Facebook Kivimedia.co Influence Marketing: 10% Principle Magician Business Podcast Kids Entertainment Podcast Generous Marriage Podcast Balloon Artist College Kids Entertainment School CBS E-Book: Use the code discourse for 90% off

This week, Jonah sits down with Ondřej Pšenička to discuss creating magic, Fool Us, and the importance of community. Ondřej is an award-winning magician who has performed at the Magic Castle, on Penn & Teller, and is the creator of the Butterfly Deck. Ondřej doesn’t really have a story about how he got into magic, it was always just an interest.  With the help of his mom, he was able to find a magic club in Prague and soon began to work on his own competition routine. Magic became a career path for him when he met Alan Vejr of Eve’n Alan. Ondřej showed Alan a video of his performance, and, seeing potential, Alan became his mentor for four years until his passing. During his time under Alan, Ondřej was exposed to magic outside of Prague through videos of masters like Dai Vernon, Fred Kaps, and Cardini. Creating Magic When Ondřej creates magic, he is focused on creating effects that are strong in presentation because it is impossible to come up with something no one knows. However, he still wants to create magic that will fool laymen and magicians. With this goal in mind, Ondřej approaches magic creation by looking for methods and moments that he can implement in unexpected ways. Ondřej goes on to explain how it’s important to embrace your strengths and weaknesses. For him, clean magic means no sleight of hand. He doesn’t enjoy performing it and prefers the impact of mental effects. The Butterfly Deck is a prime example of how you can create stunning effects with simple concepts used in unexpected ways. Butterfly Deck The Butterfly Deck was designed to fool magicians. Ondřej says that it’s not special in any way because everything you need is hidden in the beautiful back design.  In response to those who feel like they can’t use marked decks out of fear they’ll be caught, Ondřej says that only magicians tend to check or suspect that the deck is marked. When laymen tend to look at his deck, they just comment on the design. He goes on to say that when you’re working with a marked deck, you should perform effects that can’t be explained away with a marked deck. When asked why Ondřej would reveal the secrets of the deck, he replies that he wants to see what people can do with the tool he created. If you have a Butterfly Deck, and you have interesting ideas on how to use it, email him at: Ondrej@butterflyplayingcards.com. Fool Us Ondřej never had the ambition to go on Fool Us. It wasn’t until he was working on his Magic Castle act that he developed an idea that was perfect for the show. He had this image of him, sitting beside Teller while watching Alyson fool Penn on stage. With this idea in mind, he created a video at the Magic Castle and sent it into the show. His primary goal for the effect was making Alyson the star of the show. Ondřej encourages you to submit a video to the show if you have an idea that you feel would work. When making your video, he urges you to consider the environment you will be performing; they have monitors where they can watch in detail what you’re doing, meaning they will catch some things but miss others. Additionally, and this goes for any TV performance, work with the directors and producers. They want to make you and the show look as good as possible for everyone watching.  University Magic Course Ondřej attended the University of Dance and Circus in Stockholm for a magic course. Over the course of three weeks, Tom Stone instructed Ondřej and his fifteen classmates, teaching them various magic methods and concepts. From there, the students split off in pairs to develop and brainstorm tricks that utilized what they had learned. The focus was never on teaching tricks but letting them develop their own material. Ondřej describes the course as life-changing. He learned the power of working with people to brainstorm ideas and develop tricks. Without his time spent at the university, he wouldn’t have his show, he wouldn’t have had his Fool Us Performance, and he wouldn’t have met the designer for the Butterfly Deck. While the course is not currently open, it may be running again in July or August in 2019. Follow Tom Stone on Facebook for details. Prague Magic While there have been prominent Czech magicians like Pavel Pomezny and Lubor Fiedler, there is not much magic in Prague. However, with the KIM club–which focuses on creating a magic community for young magicians in Prague–and lecturers, like Karl Hein, bringing in their magic perspectives, Ondřej says that it is getting better. He calls back to the idea of community when talking about how the magic culture is improving in Prague. With his upcoming show, 52 Lovers, he says that he is only the tip of the iceberg and owes so much to his magic friends. The material may be his for the one hour set, but none of his ideas would have developed without the assistance of the community. Importance of Scripting In Ondřej’s magic club, they were recently talking about Pete McCabe’s On Scripting Magic books. Coming from an acting background, Ondřej sees script writing as one of the most important and beneficial aspects of creating a performance. By scripting, you are able to lay out how you want the audience to feel while weaving in things like callbacks. Ondřej suggests watching the ending of Derren Brown’s Enigma to see the perfect example of how scripting can help you perform powerful magic.  Wrap-Up Favourite Part Jonah liked the idea of deadlines and limitations. They breed creativity and make you take action at a rate you weren’t taking before. Ondřej liked the part about having friends in magic. They are the people who will help you develop and improve. What do you love about 2018 magic? What do you hate? Ondřej likes that people are coming back to theatres for the live shows to move away from the special effects in theatre. He feels that magic is going the right direction, and he is excited to see where it goes. Recommendation Rico and Lisa de la Vega Drummond Resources Ondřej’s Instagram Ondřej’s Website Recommended Literature  

It’s a solo episode for 138 as Jonah sits down to catch you up on his trip to Austin, where he’s at with his magic and new ideas for the podcast. Austin, Texas Jonah recently traveled to Austin, Texas to perform a private show for a group of online marketers. While there, he had the opportunity to listen to their expertise in marketing while being able to share his knowledge of performing. One of the highlights of his trip to Austin was seeing a political satire show that mixed music, sketches, and large-scale illusions–performed by Ray Anderson–together to create an incredible show. The show, Esther’s Follies, sees new skits each week as the performers meet up to create the show based on the week’s news cycle. This constant change in performance alongside the collaboration of talented people provided Jonah with a moment of inspiration.  Down the road, he hopes that he can incorporate the talents of outside people into his shows to elevate the overall experience for the audience. Len Cooper Award During the Browser’s Den of Magic 44th Anniversary party, Jonah won the Len Cooper Memorial Award which recognizes a magician under the age of 26 who has shown a dedication to the art of magic. Jonah is honored to have received the award and recognizes that he is in good company alongside the previous winners like James Alan, Ben Train, Chris Westfall, and Jeff Hinchliffe. Jonah was able to take a moment to sit down with Bernice Cooper — the wife of Len Cooper who the award honors — to discuss why Len was such a staple in the Toronto magic scene, and what qualities she would like to see in the people who win the award. Bernice replied that Len was very kind to young people entering into magic and that he was gentle in his approach. Her words resonated with Jonah, and he hopes that he can continue to apply these traits to his own magic. A Twist on the Classics Recently, Jonah has been moving away from trying weirder magic concepts, like potions and amulets, to putting his own spin on classic effects. His current focus is a chop cup routine that he has been performing at Newest Trick. Soon, he’ll be looking at putting his own twist on a metal bending routine. It’s a new approach for him, so he would like to hear from the listeners who may have suggestions or resources. Corporate Season While TMC slows down their shows during the November/December season, Jonah is picking up more and more private shows. After years of hard work, he now has a steady client base who continue to recommend and bring him back to perform. He highlights how important word of mouth can be for a magician as the audience members who recall what they saw, are recalling an impossible moment. That’s why it’s so important to have good, memorable material that you have spent time honing. Discourse in Magic In a few weeks, one lucky listener will have the chance to win a prize worth $200. Keep an eye out in the coming weeks for details on how to enter the contest. Soon, Jonah will be releasing a new theory resource guide to replace the current one. If you are interested in the old one, you should check it out soon as once the new one goes up, the old one will disappear. If you haven’t yet, consider joining the mailing list for updates and additional resources to enjoy alongside the podcast.