Profound

In this episode, Glenn Wilson, a cybersecurity expert, joins me to explore how systems thinking can reshape how we approach cybersecurity, vulnerability management, and modern digital systems.Glenn shares his journey from writing about DevSecOps to pursuing a master’s degree in Systems Thinking in Practice at the Open University. His motivation came from recognizing a troubling contradiction that, despite massive investments in cybersecurity, data breaches, ransomware incidents, and security failures continue to rise. This led him to question whether the industry’s largely reductionist approach misses the broader system dynamics at play.A central part of the discussion focuses on Stafford Beer’s Viable System Model (VSM), a cybernetic framework for understanding how organizations maintain balance and adapt to their environments. Glenn explains how VSM’s five subsystems can be used to diagnose why cybersecurity systems often fail. Rather than viewing security as a set of tools or controls, Glenn argues it should be understood as a living system embedded within larger organizational and risk systems.The conversation then expands into cybernetics, emergence, and AI, touching on Norbert Wiener, Ross Ashby’s law of requisite variety, and John Boyd’s OODA framework. Together, we discuss how feedback loops, adaptation, and emergent behavior shape both human organizations and AI-driven systems. Glenn raises an important concern: if organizations don’t adopt systems thinking, increasing automation and AI could amplify weaknesses rather than solve them.We close by reflecting on the relationship between humans, AI, and complex systems. Glenn emphasizes that AI should be treated as a tool within a larger system, not anthropomorphized as human intelligence. The key challenge ahead is understanding how humans and intelligent tools coexist within systems that are adaptive, emergent, and increasingly complex.The big takeaway: cybersecurity cannot be improved by optimizing isolated parts. Real progress requires understanding the entire system and our place within it.

In this episode, I have an insightful and wide-ranging conversation with Carol Houle, CEO of Inspire Digital Consulting. We explore her career journey across software development, lean supply chain transformation, cloud, and DevOps, and how these experiences led her to a central conviction: leadership is the primary bottleneck in digital transformation.Carol traces her roots back to early exposure to TQM and W. Edwards Deming during her undergraduate studies and her work at Pricewaterhouse Consulting in the 1990s, where lean principles were applied to supply chains. As Carol moved into larger leadership roles, a consistent pattern emerged: transformation efforts stalled not because of teams or tools, but because leaders themselves were the constraint. Yet leadership is rarely examined.Carol introduces her book and the Inspired Leadership Framework, which grew organically over a decade of observation, writing, and experimentation. Drawing from her experience spanning business, she distills leadership into measurable dimensions.Looking forward, Carol connects leadership quality to the coming era of agentic AI. AI will amplify whatever already exists. Weak leadership, unclear purpose, or misaligned incentives will scale into systemic risk. She introduces the idea of “benevolent AI agents” that help detect bias, misalignment, and deviations from stated intent.Show Notes:You can learn more about Inspired Digital Consulting and take the Inspired Leadership Assessment here - https://inspiredigitalconsulting.com/Carol Houle's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolhoule/

Lori Strom, an organizer who fosters curiosity and collaborative learning. Dr. Bill Bellows, a systems-thinking practitioner rooted in Deming-inspired organizational change. They explore the origin of In2:In Thinking, how language shapes systems, incentives and perverse rewards, curiosity as examining our own assumptions, and turning mindful reflection into practical action.

Join Lori Strom, a Deming Scholar and advocate for organizational transformation, and Dr. Bill Bellows, a leader in applying Deming's philosophy, as they dive into the relevance of Deming's ideas today. Lori shares her enlightening journey through the Deming Scholars MBA program, emphasizing a non-competitive, cooperative learning environment. Dr. Bellows reflects on the misinterpretation of Deming's work and the formation of the In2:In Thinking Network, exploring its importance in tackling modern challenges like burnout, education gaps, and the impact of AI.

I have a conversation with Diane Kulisek in this episode. Diane, a veteran in quality systems and regulatory affairs, shares her journey from Gillette to Rocketdyne to Johnson & Johnson, weaving in the principles of Deming and the realities of complex, high-stakes industries. We dive into W. Edwards Deming’s seminal perspectives on quality and how they’ve shaped Diane’s extraordinary career across aerospace, consumer products, and medical device manufacturing. We start with Diane’s early work at Gillette, where she first encountered military-grade quality standards, and move into her groundbreaking experience at Rocketdyne. There, she managed space shuttle main engine avionics and led self-managed teams. Diane highlights the power of elected management and the deep cultural dysfunctions she observed, drawing sharp analogies to adult children of alcoholics and the normalization of deviance in corporate environments.Our conversation then pivots to regulatory complexity. Diane explains how compliance efforts in medical device manufacturing must transcend minimum standards to uphold the priceless value of human life. She critiques the profit-centric motives of insurance companies and exposes the structural misalignments that can compromise quality in favor of greed and speed.We also explore the limitations and potential of AI in auditing, with Diane emphasizing the importance of human experience in identifying risk and systemic failures. She proposes the provocative idea of creating an “AI Deming,” using Deming’s extensive body of work to model principled decision-making.Diane’s reflections bring a critical eye to regulatory frameworks, the ethics of risk management, and the potential of technology to augment human insight. Through it all, she remains grounded in Deming’s enduring vision that quality is a moral imperative and a societal good.This is Diane's LinkedIn Page:https://www.linkedin.com/in/dkulisekShow Notes:1: https://www.scribd.com/document/451480272/MIL-Q-9858A-Quality-Program-Requirements-pdf2: https://adultchildren.org3: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/16.3054: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB9918626065751548435: https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/708066main_Shuttle_Bibliography_2-ebook.pdf?emrc=c67e146: https://www.irvinestandard.com/2023/johnson-johnsons-innovation-irvine-roots-and-credo-to-give-back/7: https://asq.org/-/media/ASQ-Supplemental-Media-Import/1/3/9/2/6/ar_1106_105018.pdf8: https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/oalj/PUBLIC/WHISTLEBLOWER/REFERENCES/STATUTES/SARBANES_OXLEY_ACT_OF_2002.PDF9: https://store.pda.org/TableOfContents/Risk_Assessment_Ch01.pdf10: https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/class-action-lawsuit-against-unitedhealths-ai-claim-denials-advances11: 

In this episode, I have a conversation with Doug Finke. A 16-time Microsoft MVP and long-time technologist, Doug’s experience ranges from mainframe assembly programming to pioneering AI integrations in software development. We reminisce about the early days of system programming and explore how those foundational skills have enabled technologists like Doug to excel in the rapidly evolving world of AI.Doug shares his journey from COBOL and assembler to becoming a PowerShell innovator, highlighting how his early exposure to structured programming and domain-specific languages now serves as a superpower in working with large language models (LLMs). Our discussion pivots to the game-changing potential of AI, specifically the rise of function calling, modular design, and the Model-Context-Protocol (MCP). Doug explains how these patterns transform AI from simple copilots into powerful collaborators capable of orchestrating entire software systems.We also look at the implications of AI-driven software development for enterprises, examining whether vertical SaaS solutions may soon be disrupted by in-house, AI-built alternatives. Doug emphasizes how AI accelerates both code creation and maintenance, challenging long-held assumptions about whether to buy or build software.Our conversation concludes with a philosophical lens on teaching AI, the evolving role of junior developers, and the importance of naming, structure, and design patterns in crafting software that AI can effectively understand and extend. Whether you're deep into AI tooling or just starting to explore, Doug's perspective offers a clear bridge between classical computing and today's transformative technologies.

Lonnie Wilson, a former Chevron senior manager and dedicated Deming enthusiast, shares his transformative journey through the lens of W. Edwards Deming's philosophies on management and quality. He recounts attending Deming's seminar and grappling with the enigmatic nature of his teachings. The conversation navigates the challenges of applying Deming’s principles in corporate settings, addressing the tension between abstract concepts and practical applications. Lonnie raises intriguing questions about intellectual elitism in management, the nuances of cultural change, and the ongoing relevance of Deming's legacy.

I'm still trying to figure out how to produce the audiobook for Rebels of Reason. This is my first experiment with 11Labs. It's not great. I will have to work on the voice equipment; however, it's a start. I hope you enjoy it. 

In this thought-provoking discussion, Dr. Bill Bellows, co-founder of the In2:InThinking Network, shares his insights on systems thinking inspired by W. Edwards Deming. He delves into the significance of the upcoming In2:InThinking Forum, emphasizing the necessity of psychological safety for innovation. Dr. Bellows highlights how systems thinking can revolutionize fields beyond manufacturing, including software and education. He advocates for a culture of humility and collaboration, aiming to empower professionals to rethink traditional approaches and drive meaningful change.

In this episode, I have a fascinating conversation with Jim Highsmith. We dive into Jim’s six-decade career in software development, his role in the Agile movement, and how his early influences continue to shape his thinking on digital transformation today. Jim shares stories from the punch card era to the Agile Manifesto, offering insight into the evolution of our industry.We begin by exploring Jim's early work at Exxon, debugging code with hexadecimal printouts, and his eventual pivot into structured methods and adaptive development showing a career built on embracing risk, fostering change, and learning through experience.Jim recounts the serendipitous path that led him to the Agile Manifesto in 2001, where he collaborated with figures like Kent Beck and Martin Fowler. He shares how his early thinking around adaptive methodologies aligned with what became known as Agile, even before the term existed. Throughout, Jim highlights how technological shifts, especially the rise of the internet, fundamentally altered software's purpose requiring new development paradigms.In reflecting on Agile’s legacy, Jim contrasts optimization (à la Deming’s statistical process control) with adaptation (rooted in people, learning, and responsiveness). He emphasizes the importance of context in applying any methodology, whether Agile, Lean, or DevOps, and cautions against rigid orthodoxy in favor of flexible thinking. The conversation also touches on Deming’s influence, the missed opportunity for Agile and DevOps convergence, and Jim’s role in fostering integration between the Agile Alliance and the Project Management Institute (PMI).Looking to the future, Jim sees AI as a transformation on the scale of the internet, requiring organizations to adopt adaptive mindsets or risk irrelevance. He warns that those who fail at Agile will likely fail at AI if they don’t build adaptive learning into their culture. He advocates for reimagining agility not as a fixed set of practices, but as a living, philosophical approach responsive to continual change.