The Sacred Speaks

In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, Dr. John W. Price returns to a conversation with Dr. Wouter J. Hanegraaff, professor at the University of Amsterdam and one of the foremost scholars of Western esotericism. Their first conversation opened into the history of Hermetic spirituality. This one goes further. Hanegraaff's new book, Esotericism in Western Culture: Counter-Normativity and Rejected Knowledge, reframes the entire question: esotericism is not a tradition to be catalogued. It is what the West threw out. Hanegraaff has spent decades mapping the archive of what official Western culture could not contain, magic, alchemy, gnosis, visionary experience, and asking what those exclusions reveal about the culture that made them. The conversation opens, perhaps unexpectedly, with music. Hanegraaff describes how early encounters with sound became his first experience of altered states and shaped his life's work. The scholarly and the experiential are not separate for him. They never were. The episode builds toward his concept of the "Greater West," a geographical, cultural, and historical frame encompassing the Mediterranean basin, the Middle East and North Africa, and the global expansion that followed 1492. At the center of this history is the anti-idolatry polemic. The monotheistic prohibition against images did not remain a theological dispute. It became a template: a way of naming, marginalizing, and eventually exterminating whatever could be labeled pagan, superstitious, or primitive. What began inside Europe was later exported to every culture the colonial project reached. The logic that condemned the idol condemned the person holding it. The episode closes with Rilke. What Hanegraaff calls "counter-normative" experience, the visionary, the numinous, the strange encounter that doesn't resolve into explanation, is not a curiosity at the margins of Western thought. It is the part that was deliberately buried. This conversation is an act of recovery. Key Takeaways: Esotericism is defined by exclusion rather than content. It is what Western culture rejected, not a unified tradition or school of thought. The "Greater West" expands the map of Western culture to include Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and North African roots, and the global reach of colonialism after 1492. Anti-idolatry polemics produced a reusable template for cultural rejection later applied to the spiritual traditions of indigenous peoples during colonial expansion. The Reformation and Enlightenment did not end the purge of magic and superstition but accelerated it, removing even the possibility of enchantment from the official picture of reality. Counter-normative experiences, altered states, synchronicities, visions, deserve serious intellectual engagement rather than dismissal. The West forgot them deliberately. Remembering them is a scholarly and a moral act. 00:00 Welcome and Episode Setup 04:11 Guest and Book Spotlight 07:48 Remembering the Rejected West 08:35 Music as Gnosis Gateway 20:58 Alitheia and Unconcealing Reality 24:32 Defining theGreater West 39:05 Paganism and Christianity’s Roots 42:31 Christian Shadow Projection 44:15 Pagan Roots in Islam 47:02 Idolatry and Monotheism 52:26 Magic as Demon Worship 54:03 Reformation to Enlightenment Purge 59:54 Colonial Template Exported 01:04:06Racism and Extermination Logic 01:09:07 Reconstructing the West 01:15:37 Counter Normality and Weirdness 01:19:09 Rilke Quote and Closing Website for John http://www.drjohnwprice.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

Does consciousness survive death? Investigative journalist Leslie Kean has spent two decades following the evidence, from Pentagon UFO reports to physical mediums in the UK. In this episode, she and John Price explore what happens when rigorous investigation meets phenomena that refuse to fit inside a materialist frame. Kean describes her path from Zen practice and investigative journalism through the pivotal 1999 French UFO report, to the landmark 2017 New York Times Pentagon UFO story (with Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper). She explains her evidence-based approach in Surviving Death: near-death experiences, children's verifiable past-life memories, and physical mediumship, including her experiences with UK medium Stewart Alexander. The conversation moves through non-local consciousness, ontological shock, the reduction of fear that comes with encountering this material directly, shifts in modern journalism, and open questions connecting UFO phenomena to afterlife research. About Leslie Kean Investigative journalist. Author of Surviving Death and UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record. Her 2017 NYT Pentagon UFO investigation was one of the most-read articles in Times history. Zen practitioner for over 30 years. Key Takeaways Kean describes an evidence-first approach to phenomena dismissed by mainstream science, grounding investigation in verifiable cases rather than belief. Non-local consciousness is framed as a working hypothesis supported by NDEs, past-life memories, and mediumship research. The 2017 NYT Pentagon UFO story catalyzed a cultural shift, connecting investigative journalism to ontological disruption. Ontological shock surfaces as lived experience: the moment when the worldview cracks, and what integration looks like after. Kean's encounters with physical medium Stewart Alexander raise questions that challenge even sympathetic investigators. Timestamps (00:00) Welcome and Guest Intro (01:15) Housekeeping and Links (02:27) Workshops and Community (04:02) Does Consciousness Survive Death? (06:22) Non-Local Consciousness (10:22) How a French UFO Report Changed Leslie's Career (13:06) The Pentagon UFO Story in the New York Times (20:56) Handling Ridicule and Maintaining Rigor (26:15) Ectoplasm and Physical Mediums: Stewart Alexander (30:03) Evidence Before Transformation (32:30) Children's Past Life Memories (34:25) Writing as Investigation (36:28) Reincarnation and NDE Research (38:04) The Shoe on the Ledge: A Famous NDE Case (40:07) Explaining the Unexplainable (45:15) Journalism and Evidence Standards (49:54) Why Podcasts Reach Where Print Cannot (55:12) Integration and the Non-Local Mind (01:01:00) Ontological Shock: When Your Worldview Breaks (01:06:33) Being Touched by a Physical Medium (01:11:14) Evidence Versus Direct Experience (01:11:55) Why We Survive Death (01:14:19) How This Evidence Transforms Belief (01:16:52) Humility Over Certainty (01:20:29) Beyond Religion Through Evidence (01:22:55) UFOs and Afterlife Research: Connected? (01:26:36) Meaningful Work and Gratitude (01:28:54) Documenting the Impossible (01:33:42) Closing Reflections Explore more at Alethia, John's Substack: https://drjohnwprice.substack.com Connect with Leslie Kean: lesliekean.com Website: http://www.drjohnwprice.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, Dr. John W. Price sits down with Timothy Morton, philosopher, writer, and Rita Shea Guffey Chair in English at Rice University, for a wide-ranging conversation about hell, ontology, and what it means to live without an "outside." Morton is the author of Hell, along with numerous works on ecology, object-oriented ontology, and the entanglement of human and nonhuman worlds. Together, John and Morton explore hell not as an afterlife destination but as a lived condition of felt distance from the divine and deep entanglement with the biosphere. This conversation moves through ontology and how things exist, the critique of holism and mastery as tied to fascism and colonial habits of thought, the distinction between panic and grief as pathways to change, and why mystery, irony, and hesitation may be the most honest responses to reality. Morton frames social media as a continuation of 18th-century politics of sensibility, critiques metaphysics of presence and gnostic hierarchies, and suggests that paradise is not elsewhere but something we build inside hell. Rather than offering resolution, this episode invites listeners into an uncomfortable and generative encounter with the structures we inhabit without seeing. Key Takeaways: Timothy Morton defines ontology as how things exist and argues that our deepest assumptions about reality shape everything from ecology to politics. The conversation frames holism and mastery as colonial and fascist habits of thought, suggesting that ecology requires giving up the fantasy of total comprehension. Morton distinguishes panic from grief, proposing that panic is an ontological shock when our worldview cracks, while grief is the doorway through. The interview explores hell as an embodied, cultural structure rather than a metaphysical location, and suggests irony, hesitation, and mystery as reality signals. Morton reads William Blake as a poet of infinite narrators and weaponized gentleness, connecting the Lamb and the Tiger to questions of presence and paradox. Timestamps (00:00) Welcome and Guest Intro (01:26) Workshops and Community Updates (03:38) Substack and Upcoming Book (04:26) Jumping Straight Into the Recording (05:34) Writing Without Forcing (07:54) Why Hell and Ontology (13:22) Ontology Explained Simply (14:41) Holism and Fascism Critique (18:53) Ecology Against Mastery (23:02) Building Heaven in Hell (25:22) Trauma and Meaning Saturation (26:48) Mystery and Opacity of Truth (33:01) Colonizer Mind and Worldviews (39:00) Panic as Ontological Shock (41:19) Panic Before Grief (42:28) Mockery and Woke (43:26) Grief Breaks Control (44:24) Worldviews as Weapons (45:52) Frog Versus Soldier (49:02) Initiation and Identity Loss (52:37) Phenomenology Explained (56:46) Glitches and Consciousness (58:44) Gods of Decay (01:01:45) Evolution Without a Plan (01:06:34) Trust Made of Mistrust (01:08:29) Art as Emotional Poison (01:12:27) Social Media Sensibility (01:15:46) Irony Hesitation Reality (01:18:47) Online Irony Lacks Democracy (01:19:29) Blake Tiger Infinite Narrators (01:23:02) Lamb Poem Weaponized Gentleness (01:24:34) Hell as Flipped God Presence (01:27:04) Buddhism Fixation and Bypass (01:31:33) VIP Paranormal Double Speak (01:36:37) Hell Not Just State of Mind (01:39:35) Metaphysics Presence and Hierarchy (01:50:32) Embodied Paradox as Divine (01:52:28) Closing Reflections and Thanks Connect with Timothy Morton Rice University Faculty Page: Timothy Morton, Rita Shea Guffey Chair in English, Rice University Book: Hell by Timothy Morton Website for John http://www.drjohnwprice.com WATCH: YouTube for The Sacred Speaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOAuksnpfht1udHWUVEO7Rg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ @thesacredspeaks Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thesacredspeaks/ Brought to you by: https://www.thecenterforhas.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com

John Bucher, mythologist, storyteller, and executive director of the Joseph Campbell Foundation, explores how myth shapes personal and collective life. He discusses theme over plot, favorite stories revealing hidden needs, the loss of shared cultural myths, AI as a new cultural story, and practical rituals and media choices for telling a better story in daily life.

Molly Carroll, therapist, writer, and author of Trust Within, shares how intuition rises from rupture and lived honesty. She tells the story of leaving an engagement and explores grief, codependency, and therapy. Short practices and bodily cues for sensing intuition are discussed. The conversation examines whether intuition steadies or unsettles identity and how courage changes with life stages.

Dr. Douglas Thomas, a Jungian scholar and psychotherapist, dives deep into the psychology of BDSM and kink. He reframes these experiences as essential expressions of the psyche, rather than mere pathology. The conversation uncovers why societal fears around sexuality often lead to moral rigidity. Douglas explores how transgressing societal norms can lead to wholeness and discusses the potential for trauma empowerment within BDSM practices. He emphasizes the importance of consent, community protocols, and the transformative dimensions of these often-stigmatized experiences.

Dr. Jennifer Freed, a psychological astrologer and Jungian psychotherapist, discusses her transformative journey through trauma, therapy, and mysticism. She views astrology as a living map that invites conscious participation rather than predetermined fate. Topics include shadow integration, the importance of romance as daily devotion, and the balance between self-care and serving a partner. Jennifer also tackles contemporary cultural challenges, emphasizing the need for humility and awareness as humanity navigates collective thresholds.

Explore the profound role of ritual as a means to reconnect with the sacred in everyday life. Discover how modern culture often strips away the deeper meaning, reducing rituals to mere habits. Listen to personal stories of transformation through meditation and the importance of integrating mystical experiences. Embrace the concept of ritual as both a rebellion against superficiality and a path back to belonging. Join the conversation about living in harmony with the sacred rhythms of existence.

In a thought-provoking dialogue, Terry Real, a pioneering therapist and author, delves into the hidden struggles of male depression and the warped definitions of masculinity shaped by patriarchal norms. He emphasizes how societal expectations lead men to disconnect from their emotions, often expressing their pain through anger or substance abuse. Terry advocates for a new model of masculinity founded on vulnerability, connection, and love, urging a shift in relational dynamics that empowers both men and women. His insights offer a path toward healing and wholeness in relationships.

In this insightful discussion, Richard Rohr, a Franciscan friar and spiritual guide, explores the deeper dimensions of happiness. He emphasizes that true joy comes not from external comforts but from a balanced 'just right mind' that embraces both ego and humility. Rohr critiques sin management, suggesting instead a focus on radical compassion and acceptance. With warmth, he addresses the significance of community, humor, and facing mortality, ultimately advocating for surrendering to a greater joy that transcends individual circumstances.