VO BOSS

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in! Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya? Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne? Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios. Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit. Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right? Gillian: Yeah, definitely. Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs). Gillian: I'm just a voice actor. Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)? Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room -- Anne: I know where you're going with this. Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out -- Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes. Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on. Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer. Gillian: I love to know. Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no. Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important. Anne: I agree. Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by -- Anne: Oh, fantastic. Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice. Anne: Absolutely. Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet -- Anne: Yeah. Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body. Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown. I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole 'nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it. And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different. So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible. Gillian: Uncomfortable. Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: So (laughs) in terms of -- Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room. Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to. Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that -- Anne: On top of it. Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what -- Anne: Oh, I was gonna say -- Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing. Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in. Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere. Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. 'Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole 'nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't. And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels. And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording -- Gillian: Once we're in the studio that you've built and whatever says… Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection. Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody. Anne: So true. Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt. Anne: It's an investment. Gillian: It hurt a little bit. Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested -- Gillian: Emotional pain. Anne: — but it's an investment. Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work? Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that's a worthy investment. Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection. And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more. Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs) Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here. You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So. Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like -- Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs) Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree. Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember? Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy -- Anne: A microphone. Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean -- Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that. Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course. Anne: I love it. I love it. Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move. Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am. Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry. Anne: Yes. Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will. Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting. Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun. Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be? And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products? Gillian: I do. Yeah. Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again… Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough -- Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck. Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but -- Anne: But it's an investment. Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things. Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right? Gillian: No. Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up. Gillian: They're completely different. Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that… Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all. Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there. Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out. But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important. Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want. And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make. And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry. Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way. But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do. Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional? And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed. Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business. Anne: There you go. Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were -- Anne: It made a difference, right? Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards. Anne: Right? Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world. Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you? Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it. Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us. Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely -- Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes. Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not. Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello. For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really. Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more -- Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next -- Gillian: Sorry, guys. Anne: That's for our next episode. Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's -- Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true. Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing -- Anne: Anything you're doing. Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice -- Anne: Who you are and your brand. Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of. Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about. Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the -- Anne: It's not the microphone -- Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say. Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones? Gillian: I know. Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Gillian: Bye. Anne: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Lau answer a question many have about the voice over industry: "how long will it take?" The truth is, becoming a successful voiceover artist takes time, discipline, and dedication. There is no set timeline for success, and it is important to have realistic expectations. Investing in coaching and training is essential, but it is equally important to be selective about where and how to invest. Building a recognizable brand identity and having a viable business is important. Respecting the voiceover industry as a business is crucial. Hard work, commitment, and effort increase the chances of success, but there are no shortcuts. Success is not only measured financially but also in time and commitment to your voice over business. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here today with the lovely and most wonderful BOSS, co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey BOSS. Lau: Hey BOSS. How are you? Anne: I'm doing great. How about yourself? Lau: I'm doing good. Feeling BOSSy today. Anne: Today I think we should answer a very common question that is asked, I think, both of myself and you, I can imagine. And that is for people just starting out in this industry, how long will it take for me to become a voiceover artist? Or how long will I have to spend coaching or training so that I can do voiceover? Lau: Hmm. Gotta get my calculator out for that one. So I can just do different variables, different scenarios, right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Variations on the theme. That's a biggie. Anne: Is it gonna take me, okay, in three months I wanna be able to make $10,000 a month, and I want to be able to secure 20 new clients, right? So it's very hard for people when they're first starting out. Again, we had another podcast all about this, like, you don't know what you don't know yet. So how long will it take? Well, let's see. Where's my crystal ball? Lau: (laughs) Where do you start? Where do you start? Anne: Where's my crystal ball? How do even I start? Lau: Where do you start? Anne: Boy, it depends on so many things, Lau. Lau: Mm. There's tons of variables involved with that. That's not even possible to answer that question. One could Google and look up, okay, voiceover talent, 2023, North America, what's the average? But it's really not going to tell you what is going on in individual scenarios and situations that can cause a tremendous amount of loss and a tremendous amount of gain. Anne: Yeah. Well, maybe let's start with how long will it take if somebody's just starting out in the industry, right? Lau: Wait, can I do my theater moment? Can I do my like, wait, give me six months. I gotta do jazz hands. I will give you a VO career. Anne: Woohoo! Lau: Did you like that? Did that sound credible to anyone? Anne: Wait, I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I was running fast and far away from that. Lau: (laughs) Anne: From that claim. Lau: You know, I had a colleague one time, he told the greatest stories, and he said, listen, would you go to a dentist who did a weekend workshop? Or who even did a one-year certificate program to become a dentist? Would you do that? And everyone laughs at that. Anne: Would you get your tooth drilled from that dentist? Mm. Lau: Probably not. Probably not. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Because not just about the physical pain of it, but the idea that, how could they become a dentist in six months or one year? There's a lot to learn. There's a lot to delve into, right? Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Absolutely. Such a great point. And I think that's like one of the first things that I'm always saying. My gosh, we go to school for years to learn a craft. Like doctors go for eight years minimum, I think, right? Dentists as well. And maybe not even doctors and dentists. I mean, just back in the day, okay, now I'm starting to sound my age, but I had a four-year program in college that I went to for a bachelor's or a two-year program for an associate, whatever it is, right? We go to elementary school for so many years to learn all of these things. So why is voiceover any different? Like, I'm not saying we need to spend 12 years, but in reality, we probably are continually honing our craft and spending our entire lives being a student. But why would you think it would only take two months or three months even, or even a couple of sessions before you're ready to make that demo? You have to just sit back and does that make logical sense? Lau: I think it could only make logical sense if I am really invested in the media blitz of our society and having very quick images and sounds about being in entertainment, being in the entertainment industry, which looks to us on the outside as very fast and very polished and very rich and very quick. When we know on the inside, on the other side of it, it takes years and years oftentimes to get to that place of what you're seeing in that media image. Anne: Sure. Lau: So I mean, that's kind of like the collateral damage of being in this whole entertainment industry under that umbrella is that you have whole generations now that think and feel like, if I jump on TikTok or if I jump on this social media channel, I'm instantly this, I'm instantly that. It's like stir and mix, you know? Pull it off the shelf, stir and mix, and you're instantly a star. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: We have to combat that because we know for longevity in careers, it's just never that. It's always a, an investment, a creating, a recreating, a re-envisioning throughout your life. This is a craft. Anne: Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight, for sure. Does not happen. If it looks easy, well, yeah, it probably took us, what if that overnight success was 40 years in the making? Lau: Yes. We were a 40-year overnight success. You like it? (laughs) Anne: And everybody is different. Now, of course, you might have a different story. Maybe you've been an actor all your life, and you've turned to voiceover, and you got hired because maybe you're a little bit of a celebrity, right? And people know you and they know your brand, and so you were able to lock in a big video game right away, or a national campaign. And so that is where I think people, they look at it and go, oh my gosh, I should be be able to do this. You know, if I set my goals, I should be able to do this in three months or six months. But honestly, BOSSes out there, I mean, to really be a BOSS, I think that there has to be some longevity. There has to be some due diligence. There has to be some hard work, some sweat, blood, tears, mistakes. We just had a whole podcast on mistakes -- that really make that career a possibility. And it does not typically happen in two to three months. So with that being said, the other question is, how much is this going to cost? Well, it's going to cost, right, whatever you're going to invest in your coaching and training. And I don't mean to be impatient, but it's so many times I get people who come to me thinking that it'll cost them much less to get that demo so that they can get working and be successful as a voiceover actor. And somehow they're thinking, well, just a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand, and I'll be good to go, and I'll be able to make some money. Lau? Lau: I almost don't know what to say to that though. We always have to have something to say to that. Anne: Right? We do. We do. Lau: One of the first things I always say is, what you put into it, what you invest is exactly what you're going to get out of it. So be careful how you invest. And how much you invest and what you invest. You have to really sit down with a master plan and think, okay, maybe I don't know much. I'm in my first year. Now I'm in my third year. I know a lot more. And you have to invest and reinvest in, what are my goals per quarter? What do I want to achieve? What is achievable? What is realistic? I always joke with my clients and say, I may want to be a 22-year-old Scandinavian supermodel, but that ain't happening. Anne: (laughs) Lau: Can I just say? And I'm glad it's not happening, 'cause that leaves me room to be what I can be, what I want to be, and what is possible for me. Anne: Love it. Sure. Lau: So I don't look at that as a limitation. I look at that as opening the door to spending the energy and time and everything that I should be investing in. Anne: Yes. Lau: Just because I have money and I can invest doesn't mean I should invest in that. I have to be very specific. I have to be very goal-oriented, and I have to be reasonable. I have to be realistic and pragmatic in my goal. There's a difference between a dream and a goal, right? Who is the famous person who said this? I have to look this up. A goal is just a dream with a deadline. But it's more than that. It's something that is realistic for my talent, for my skillset, for my time, for my money. It's like a whole portfolio. You sat down with a financial advisor, they're not just gonna say, hey, how much money do you have? No. They're gonna look at you and build a portfolio on who you are, what your background is, what you're capable of, what you want, and really come up with scenarios and variables that are reasonable in terms of it not being a gamble, but being an investment, a calculated risk. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like we say this so much, but I feel like we, we need to say it. There is an investment here. There is an investment here. It's not going to come — can you learn voiceover on YouTube? Can you learn voiceover from reading books? Can you learn voiceover from Googling? There's a lot that you can take from that. But then there's also so much more that you can garner by investing some money into a good coach. This is all about you and your voice and your acting. And so it really helps to work with someone who specializes in taking your voice and teaching you techniques and principles of acting so that you can showcase the very best for your potential clients. And so that's going to cost money. And I always think, if you are invested enough to want to create a business selling your voice, well, you have to also understand that as a business, you respect other businesses, right? Other businesses, coaches are out there. They have to charge for their services. It's not like I can exist just on my good heart, which I do have a wonderful heart, and Lau, you too. Lau: You do. You do. Anne: I can't just spend my hours every day giving away voice lessons. And so there has to be some semblance of a business there. And I always have to say to myself that I need to present a good example of a voiceover business. I've got policies. If they can't make their lesson, if they don't notify me in a certain amount of time, I can't fill that spot again. So that costs me money. So there are things that need to be enforced in business, which I think as a student, right, or as somebody entering into this industry, wanting to be a business, that you also have to learn about and also respect and understand. Lau: You said a total mouthful too, when you said, you know, respecting the businesses that are in your business. I mean, we wanna respect everyone in the world, but when we're talking about our industry, like be respectful of others' businesses that are working alongside you, with you, and for you to help you create and grow a business. Their time is valuable. Their time is money, in essence, right? We don't like to think of it that way, but we never wanna apologize for having value monetarily. You have to have value. Sure, you can do pro bono work. Sure, you can do projects without getting paid. Sure, you can do all of that. But it has to live alongside a paradigm of career and really building something that is viable, meaning I'm getting my return, and I'm also investing, and I'm also having some luxury of profit. And that is called building a business. And so when we come out to people, we say, oh, well, how much is this gonna be? Well, that's expensive. Well, I can't afford that. You're automatically unintentionally disrespecting that person's not just time and effort, but their education. You're paying for their history, their value -- Anne: Their experience. Lau: -- their schooling, all the connections they have and know, their studio. I mean, on and on it goes. You are paying for that. It's not just about a product; it's about a a process. And so really just making sure people understand that. If you feel like someone is charging you too much money, that's fine. Then walk away from it and don't spend it. But just know they're basing their value off what they think their value is based in all those areas. It isn't just, oh, I'm slapping on a price tag of this. It's like I'm bringing this to the table and guess what? I'm not 20 or 30, I'm 50, I'm 60. So I'm bringing you all those years of knowledge and wisdom. Anne: Experience. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, respect the business. Respect the people that are in the business that are helping you get into the business. And also expecting things to be easy or cheap, I would say educate yourself enough about the industry to know that with anything, right, you're going to have to make an investment. I wish that there weren't people out there selling the dream, but I think you're gonna have that for just about anything, not just voiceover, right? There's gonna be, I'm gonna sell you the dream. Gosh, there were so many and there probably still are infomercials on, come to my seminar. You too can flip a house and make thousands of dollars, and you can make thousands of dollars in, in a short amount of time. So that whole selling the dream, if it seems too good to be true, typically it is. Lau: (laughs) Anne: And so that's something to be aware of. So how long will it take me? This is the other question, how long will it take me to get a return on my investment? Lau: That's a really tough question to answer. It really is. And I, I just have to say to your point for people to remember --I had a colleague that gave me this really adorable sign one time from my birthday. It was like a mechanic with this old fashioned truck, and he was fixing the truck, and it said on it, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I never forgot. Anne: Yep. I love that love. Lau: I don't know if I have the signs still, but I never forgot that. I thought it was funny and kitchy, but it's so true. Like you get what you pay for oftentimes. You really, really do. Not always, but much of the time, that principle is really true. And to be perfectly honest with everyone and all your peeps, I'm gonna be honest with, I don't feel I can give you an answer to that question of what am I gonna make and how much time I'm gonna make it in, and when am I gonna be successful? That really is an individual's journey and choice as to how much time, effort, investment, heart, soul, blood, tears, whatever you're gonna put into this. The harder you run at it, the more you put into it, the more you focus and intensify, the more opportunities tend to come because there's that work breeds work kind of energy that you're putting into the world. Like, I'm working, I know you're this way, Anne. If someone says, are you busy? Are you bored? Say there's no such thing. Bored is not in your vocabulary. Anne: Never, never. Lau: Because you're always working, you're working. Whether you're being paid or not, you're always working. And that energy, that mystical energy goes into the world, and people are attracted to that. There's an attraction to that. It's not just being busy, it's being engaged, it's being excited. It's being enthralled by things. People want to magnetically latch onto that. So I would say in order to get that success, whatever that is that you're looking for, get busy. Get busy on being busy and get engaged. And the more you're engaged, the more potential outcomes that are pleasing you are gonna happen. Anne: Well, I think return on your investment, okay. So investment, usually when people say that to you, or they're asking you that question, when will I get a return on my investment? They're talking about their money. And in reality, what you've just wrapped all into, besides the money, is your effort. Right? And your time and what you put into it. So in reality, when you're asking me, when will I get a return on my investment? Well, I will come right back to you and say, well, how committed are you to investing your time, your energy into making this a success? And a lot of it does depend on you. Now, if you're gonna sink a few thousand dollars into some coaching and a demo, then you expect to get a job how long after? A lot of times two people will say, all right, now that I got my demo, how long will it take for me to get my first voiceover job? And again, that really shows up into your effort in terms of how are you going to go out and get that job? Because you can have the best voice in the world, you have the best demo in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and they can't pay you for it. Lau: And aren't you and I constantly breaking down the map biology of, okay, I will answer that question with a question, which no one likes, but okay, let's break down your day. Can we break down your week? Can we look at actually what you're investing day to day and week to week? And then all of a sudden, the door opens of knowledge, and sometimes it's like what you don't wanna see of Pandora's box coming out. Like, oh, I'm only doing this. I don't have time to do this. Or this is harder for me. Anne: Or I don't have time to do the homework. I give my students homework. And I'll be like, okay, so I saw that you were able to record a couple of pieces of copy , and I'll just say it like that. Okay. So they'll be like, well, okay, so am I ready for my demo? And I'll say, well, I noticed that you only recorded two out of your 20 pieces of copy. And so if I'm giving you too much homework, you just let me know. But I will say that you need to invest the time in doing this, and I give you homework not to make you cry or not to overwhelm you. It's to kind of get you in a discipline where you can be working. This is what it's going to be like to be working every day. This is what it's going to take for you to record this, edit it, prep it as if you were doing an audition, and just store it in that Dropbox and name it appropriately. Right? So all of these things that I'm giving for homework are really lessons in, here's what a voiceover artist does in their day. I'm submitting an audition, I'm naming it correctly, I'm uploading it on time. And so, most of the time I'll come back and say, I really need you to put in this time. Or they'll reschedule lesson after lesson after lesson, and then it will be like six months before I see them again. And I'm like, we've lost the momentum. Lau: That's right. And it's like, can you see the forest through the trees? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like is there logic to your line of, is there reasoning even to your line of thinking? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like one of my coaches recently, an anecdote, one of my coaches said to me, I'm frustrated because this person wants to get on the demo track and wants to do the demo and is quickly, doesn't have money, da, da, da, but is not doing the homework and is coming to the table and just using a lot of excuses as to why they could not prepare for the session. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: And he said, said simply, he was frustrated, but he said, do they realize they're going into voiceover? Do they even know what that profession is? And I said, no, they haven't made that connection yet. It's for us to do the teaching moments and making the connection that what you're going into is extremely demanding, and very fast, and crazy hours and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. But a lot of our clients, Anne, I think you could say the same thing, right? They're not seeing the forest through the trees where they're seeing this overview of what they think the industry is, but the weeds, getting really into the weeds of what it is the coaching is simulating, trying to simulate what a work experience might be like. So if it's hard for you to do your homework, then it'll be near impossible for you to do the auditions and jobs. Anne: Yeah. Oh, I teach a lot of long format narration, right? So when I give homework, they are the full spots. They'll be two to four minutes, sometimes even longer if it's e-learning. And they'll say, okay, but that was a really long spot. And I'm like, well, that's the reality of it, right? And so I need to make sure that you as an actor are completely committed to that script three quarters of the way through. Three minutes in, are you still as committed as you were in the beginning? And I want you to edit that entire thing as if it were an audition. So they're like, well, do I have to edit? And I'm like, I'm kind of giving it to you all at once so that you can understand what it takes, right, to put out a job that is a four-minute job. How long will it take you to edit that? And I want you to get better at it. I want you to get faster at it. Lau: It's a simulated journey of -- Anne: Exactly. Lau: It's a journey that you pay for to invest so that you can go with very little to no stakes. Right? To go into a high stake situation. Anne: Yeah. And if you're working with me, right? And you wanna know how long it will take before you can do voiceover -- I mean, if you're just gonna meet with me once a week, then that's an hour out of your week that you've spent doing voiceover. You're gonna progress an hour at a time. And if you're gonna ask me 10 weeks later, I'm like, well, you've spent exactly 10 hours with me. And in a given workday, we might work eight hours a day or 10 hours a day, or we work a 40-hour work week. You've only worked with me for 10 hours total of your lifetime, and you wanna know if you're ready for a demo. Now, does that make sense? Does that make sense? Lau: There's no sense to it. But then again, there's no understanding of the logic of what actually goes into it. Right? Like they literally may not get just yet what goes into building a career and building voiceover. And if someone is coming to me, which I get a lot; a client saying, I'm frustrated Lau because I'm already doing an hour or two a week of this. I can't put any more time into it, this is where I have to be kind and say, um, I get that. And you're busy and you work full-time, you have — I get that. But just continually regroup. And is your vision clear, understandable, and realistic about what you're going into? Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Because what you're going into is going to demand that you give as much as you can to it. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. It is the hardest thing. And I will be the first to admit, because when I worked part-time and voiceover when I was working a full-time job, a family, a full-time job, and voiceover is tough. There's so much focus that has to go into voiceover. Because remember, people, this is our business. It is. We are entrepreneurs. And unless your full-time job is your other full-time business, and it's yours, you are typically also navigating an unfamiliar world of, oh, I have my own business. I have to generate my own business. I have to market myself. I have to put on a trillion different hats. And so there's more than just getting in the studio and recording and editing. Now there is all the marketing, there's all the --I've gotta have a website. I've gotta be able to do auditions so that I can present myself with opportunities so that I can get work. So there's a lot, in addition to just doing voiceover in your booth. Lau: We're like one man bands. One woman bands. We really are. It's like putting on hats, hats, hats, hats. You have to own a lot of hats to be in this profession, because you're always gonna be shifting your hat. Any kind of business owner, if you're a solopreneur and you work alone, you're always shifting the hats. I think also too, Anne, we're fighting against the new mantra of teaching business leaders or teaching people who wanna be BOSSes that you can work for two or three hours a week and then sit on a beach for the rest of that time. That's like this new mantra that's out there in marketing. Like make six figures, make even seven figures. Lay on that beach with your children and just work a couple hours a week. Anne: Couple hours a day. Yeah. If that, yeah. Lau: I'm not gonna say it's a lie. I'm not gonna say that, but I am going to say there's a slight fabrication, maybe even an embellishment in that, because I know for a fact that even the tech billionaires are working all the time. And why are they working all the time? Because people who own stuff, run stuff, and lead stuff are innovators. They're inquisitive, they're interested. Whether you like what they do or agree with it is another thing. I'm just saying, they're invested in it. Their whole life is that. Even after they sell it sometimes. Anne: Entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, that is the definition. Lau: Entrepreneurs. Anne: Of an entrepreneur, Lau. Lau: Yeah. We have a very, very well-known furniture company in New England that has been around for ages like 40 years. And they were run by two brothers, and they were constantly on TV together, constantly. The face -- Anne: Oh, who? Do I remember them? Lau: Jordan's Furniture. Anne: Oh yeah. Okay. Lau: One of the brothers sold his piece years ago. Well, guess what? We never see the brother that owns it. We only see that brother on tv. And he's constantly there. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he's the one who still has the shares. I mean, they sold the whole company now. They've been in business for a long time. But the point is, I still see him. He's on all the time because he's the face of the company. He's the feel of the company. He's much older now. He still does all the commercial campaigns. He could say, hey, I'll be on the beach. Good luck. Good luck. He made his money, he made millions. Anne: That's true. Lau: Doesn't matter. His heart and his feel as a human being is to wanna stay connected to the company, to wanna stay connected to where it's going. So my point is, is like, are we ever laying back doing nothing to build a company? No. That's false. Anne: Yes. Yeah. My return on investment, I mean, honestly, right? Investment is so much more than money. So I want you guys to really think in terms outside of money -- blood, sweat, tears, effort, practice, and of course money when you're investing money too. But that investment falls not just in your wallet, but in your time and in your commitment. And how long will it take? I think that that really is entirely up to you, (laughs). How long will it take to get a return on investment? And will you get a return on your investment? I wish I could guarantee people things. And I always say, honestly, if you put the work in and you're committed, and as long as I can understand what you're saying, right? There's so much out there. Do I have the voice for voiceover? We all do. We all have our own unique voice, and it's beautiful, and it's beautiful to people in different ways. And so yeah, sure. It's not about the voice, to be honest with you. It's not really about the voice. Lau: And sometimes there's just no real rhyme or reason. You could call it fate, you could call it mystical, you could call it whatever you want, as to what jobs are coming to you. In the same day, I mean, when I do my agent work, I'll get a $400 job in perpetuity with nothing residual or whatever, and okay. And then in the same day, I'll get a $15,000 job, which doesn't take a whole lot more time to record or a whole lot more effort. It's just the nature of it is very, very different. And the usage is very different, and the client is very different. And how they came to me and us, sometimes it's just fate. And other times it's the hard work of your branding, your marketing, your staying with it year after year that your name just floats into the universe and they get it. Anne: Sure. And it just becomes a known brand. Yeah. So how much will I make (laughs)? Will I get a return on my investment and how long? BOSSes, it's up to you. It's up to you. So, and we have all the faith that you can absolutely do it. So, ah, good conversation. Good conversation. Lau: I love that. I love that. So empowering. Anne: So BOSSes, here's a chance, not only to be a BOSS at your own business, but here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. And a big shout-out to our favorite ipDTL sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Lau: See you next week, bye. Anne: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To create a successful voiceover performance, authenticity is key. This can involve using props, physicalizing the script, and infusing in personal experiences to deliver a realistic & engaging read. Anne & Lau emphasize the importance of intention, nuance, and understanding the corporate story & mission. Just as a chef must gather and prepare ingredients before cooking a delicious meal, hard work and effort are necessary before reaping the rewards.Want to improve your performance? Try taking notes, emphasizing key words, and using aids like pictures & videos, and of course, tune into VO Boss! We'll guide you through it. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing special guest co-host, BOSS lady Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey, hey. Hey, Anne. Anne: So Lau, I am very excited that it's early morning, and I have my coffee. Lau: Me too. What would we do without it? Anne: I know. So many people have contacted me and said, it sounds like you and I in the booth in our podcast are just sharing a cup of coffee and shooting, shooting the breeze, having a conversation, Lau: High balling the water, which you gotta do in between the coffee. Anne: That's right. That's right. Lau: Just to wash the vocal folds out. Anne: Let me share — there's my big old water bottle with the coffee. Lau: And then I'm gonna show everyone, I think everyone already knows this about us. Watch this. We're gonna do this as well. Anne: (laughs). I love your lipstick. Oh, so here's mine. Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate! Anne: Right? Wonder powers activate. So, yeah, my red. But you know what, guys? Maybe one of these days I'm gonna switch it up. Lau: Hmm. Ooh, you should. You should. Anne: Oh gosh. Lau: Naked lips. Let's see what naked lips look like without the red. That would be fun. Anne: I feel like I'm so pale. (laughs), but I feel like I'm so pale. Lau: You are pale. But that's your beauty. Anne: Pale without my lips. Well. Lau: But you know what I just noticed, Anne? You know what I just noticed? Literally, I just observed this, that we just used like three props. Three props. Anne: Oh my God. Lau: In our world. Anne: We totally did. Lau: And we were talking all the way through that, as we always do. And we had no problem using the props, talking and connecting, getting our points across. And that suddenly just dawned on me, like, that's a part of our world in finding connection -- Anne: That's what we do. Lau: — and authenticity with each other. Anne: That's what we do in the booth. Interesting. So let's chat about this. Let's take this apart, because you know, I do this a lot when I'm trying to talk to students about being authentic and believable with the script. And I think what just throws the whole wrench into it is that we've got these words in front of us, and all of a sudden we don't know how to make them a part of us. And interestingly enough, like we just demonstrated, and BOSSes out there, you just heard it, even if you're not looking at us on YouTube, we were able to pick up objects and share ideas, and have a conversation, engage with one another, and not miss a beat. And we weren't even thinking about it. But what I want you guys to do is let's take a look at, a more in-depth look at this to kind of figure out how we can take what we do in real life and translate it into the booth to be believable and authentic. Right? Bring that real life into the booth. Now, one thing, I think that was first and foremost, we talked about props, right? Ah, I always have my trusty lipstick or my cup of coffee, or probably most of you have one of these, a phone or even just a mouse (laughs). Like you must have something in your booth. Lau: I mean, it's endless what we have really with us. And doesn't that make us feel comforted and taken care of? And we identify with that brush in a lot of ways. It's part of our life. Anne: I'm bringing all my makeup out. I've even got jewelry in here, but (Lau laughs), in case I -- Lau: I think a man's gonna pop up all of a sudden. (laughs), Anne: Gosh only knows I have tons of these, the headphones in there. So now, if you're trying to sound authentic and believable, one thing that we've covered multiple times in our podcast is there's not a perfect voice. Right? There's all sorts of imperfection in our voices, and a lot of that can translate -- I mean, not that — everybody has a beautiful, wonderful voice all on their own. You don't have to perform behind the mic, right? It just is beautiful when we're engaging. And so props can help us to bring that scene to life, right? I know I just had a really wonderful workshop with the amazing Ellen Dubin, and she was talking about video game acting, and all of it was about blocking, get up, move around, change your position. Do that, because that's gonna add that reality. And I'm always telling people physicate behind the mic, because that's gonna make our vocals not perfect for some reason. If we sit silent and straight behind the booth, and we just read these words, hello everyone, and welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, and the BOSS Superpower series, right? So I'm just reading, but I'm not moving, that physical part of having a prop, having somebody to talk to 00 expressing, expressing with our bodies. Lau: I love this. You know, you had me physicate. Like I have never heard anyone use that word. So I'm stuck on physicate. But yeah, I would love voice actors to take it a step farther and just Johnny Depp it out. Like take their script and go somewhere. Go to a store, go to a Starbucks, go to a library, go be in your car, and I want you to deliver that. Deliver the line as part of your universe. Anne: What a great idea. Lau: Yeah! Anne: Yeah. Lau: Right? Doesn't the booth at times sort of pen us and it becomes boxy to us in our minds where we can literally move it outside, move it, and see how it flows and works, and physicate in that environment. Like, if I'm ordering a drink or I'm getting food, or I'm sitting at a table, or I'm da da -- how would that line live within that universe versus only within the universe of the booth? I mean, ultimately, we can't do that on every script, but as part of your actor's work, it's well worth the time to do that so that you can bring that imagination back into the reality of your beliefs. Anne: Sure. Lau: And relive that, you know, relive those moments. Anne: What I like is, even if, alright, let's say you've got a very dry corporate narration script, right? Maybe a company talking about their corporate responsibility, which may not be the most exciting stuff that you'll ever hear in the world. So for me, I'm always telling people, in order to kind of make it sound conversational, and it may not be written conversational at all, or authentically, or it's basically like here, this is stuff that you would typically read. You wouldn't necessarily say it out loud. You would typically just read it and then understand it as information that the company has provided to you. Take that script and put it into your own words. So you might have this long run-on line that's talking about corporate responsibility and all of these things about what we are doing to promote corporate responsibility in the workplace. And so take that, those words, and just put it into your own words. And when you can take that sentence, which sometimes most of the time is a run-on sentence and formulate your own speech about it, or your own personal conversation about it to someone else, explain it to someone else, that's gonna give you the idea behind the melody and the point of view that you wanna take. And then all you do is, when you get in the booth, replace it with the words. But you have the intent, you have the point of view, you have the thought of, here, it's this idea, and then this idea, and then I'm gonna combine it with this idea. And then that's the finished sentence. So it's kind of allowing you to regroup the information that's presented in the sentence in a very structured way and creating it in your own authentic way. Lau: That's right. And you have to think of your work like you're layering a cake. You have the cake; to some degree, you have the cake. Even if you're at the beginning of your career, you still have some sort of cake. It might be a demo, it might be a beginner level studio, whatever it is. But I have to layer that over time and make it more interesting. So for instance, if I were to take my pen, my trusty prop, and talk about my corporate responsibility script, I might take a note on that. Because if I'm working in corporate, I'd be writing down minutes, I'd be taking notes as I went. And that puts me in a mindset, a frame. It gives me a framework to work by that when I'm corporate -- and this is just my choice, it's not the right choice, it's just my choice — when I'm corporate, I always tend to write a few notes. I tend to take a moment to write things down. That changes my sound, it changes my pace, it changes everything. Anne: So that physical action of writing something down — also, the fact is, is what would you write down? Right? If you had that big, long run on sentence, right? What are the notes that you would take? Right? Typically, those notes are the most important parts of the sentence, right? Those are the notes that you as an actor want to probably linger on a little longer. So when we talk about being authentic, and Lau, and I, when we're speaking, our pacing isn't the same. Sometimes I, I pause, like I just did, and sometimes my words are longer. And usually the ones that are are longer the ones I want her to hear more. And so when you're creating those notes, right, you're creating, this is an important point that I wanna express to someone. So that word can be a little bit longer than maybe the word the (laughs) or the word at the beginning. At the, at the, or just tiny little words that connect. Beginning is an important word. So at the beginning, notice how at the becomes almost like a, I don't know, a 16th note in melody if I was speaking vocally, but in the beginning, beginning is an important word, so I'm gonna linger on that. Lau: We can emphasize, you need to linger on that, right? If every word is the same, and every word is important, nothing's important. (laughs). Anne: Right? It sounds monotonous and robotic. Lau: Like what's important if every word is important, right? Anne: Right. Lau: But if I take that pen -- and to me this is a corporate moment or a business moment, or whatever you wanna call it-- I think maybe I'm gonna do bullets, how I would do in my life. I'd take a sentence, I'd take a thought, and I'd pull a word or two out of it that are my emphasis words, my bullets, and do like little bullets. and say, wow, out of that sentence, I got coffee. That was the word of the day for me, coffee as a bullet. So that when I go back and I review that for my speaking, I can remember, I can mark that coffee, that the word coffee or the name of the coffee is really an emphasis for me. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: This helps me with that. Like, because then I'm gonna say coffee, like Starbucks coffee. Anne: Right. Lau: And I'm gonna use this. Anne: And the other thing too that I think is super important to remember is that we talked about you taking the script and going out into the real world with it, right, and start practicing with it and playing off of maybe someone else. Notice how you said, well, let's play off of someone else. I mean, when we started this podcast, you and I were talking to one another. We were engaging with one another. Lau: Yep. Anne: Well, when we're sitting here in our studios behind the mic with a script, you cannot be alone (laughs) just saying. In your head, you must be the person that is speaking. And you must also have your imaginary friend that you are speaking to. And so you want to make sure that you are engaging with that audience member or that listener. And so you must talk to them, and they will have reactions for you or questions or comments. Right? And you cannot just start talking to them like, oh gosh, have you ever had a friend, Lau, that you can't get a word on edgewise? Like, and it's basically all about yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, ya. It's all about them. Right? All about their monologue. And so when you're behind the mic, don't let it be all about your monologue. Let it be about you engaging with your listener and allowing that listener a beat to acknowledge, to respond, to have a question, whatever that is. And I'm not talking about you have to time things, but that's an imaginary beat where I've said something, and now Lau, I'm looking for you to respond, right? You just shook your head, right? You just went, mm-hmm. So that's where I think we need to also invite that into our script, right? And invite that real life into our script. Lau: You have to do it. It's so important. And have cheaters if you have trouble reaching that at times. Like in our daily life, we're not always great conversationalists, or we're not always in the mood for a talk or whatever. So you have to have those cheaters, whether you're talking to your kid or your dog, or a photo or a video or something that stimulates you into thinking, this is part of my daily experience. This is part of a reality of my life that I can connect to right now, that I can make real. Because I may not be in the mood or in the mindset every single day to connect to that particular audition or to connect to that particular product. Anne: What I love is like literally like now that I've sat here, and I'm taking notice and, and BOSSes out there, really, let's watch the YouTube video on this, because I was just watching you, Lau, and everything you said, you had your hands, everything you said, and I was responding. I was shaking my head, I was going, mm-hmm. So that's the parts that you have to play in your script. And believe it or not, even in a mundane medical narration script or in a telephone prompt, believe it or not -- I'm always imagining, here I am and I'm talking to the listener and they've got their thoughts about me (laughs). Because maybe they don't wanna listen to an automated attendant. Maybe they're angry, maybe they're frustrated. But yet I will still talk to them with a tone where I'm like, I know you're frustrated. I know that you don't wanna listen to my voice, but let me help you. Okay? And so that point of view, that intention — all of a sudden, I'm speaking about intentions so much lately -- I think that intention, before you even approach voicing or opening your mouth, I think your intention is so very important. Lau: So very important. And you know, in the script, in this context, it would be an actor's intention because you're in a false reality. You're not in your real reality; you're in this technical reality. Anne: Sure. Lau: But then you have intentions or purpose, or whatever you call it in your daily life and thinking about, wow, how much do I care about things? How much do I connect? How much do I try to make action happen and go well? Well, I have to bring that intention into the booth. I have to bring that into the booth. And I think if we were honest, we would say, in our daily life, half the stuff we do is crap. It's like chores. It's like, I have to go to the dump because I have -- Anne: I don't want to go to the dump. Lau: -- bring my trash. Right? (Anne laughs). But how do I have a joyous life still being able to go to the dump? Well, I keep the intention alive that it's not about me hating to go to the dump. It's about me wanting to have a clean and wonderful household. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: That's really what it is. So it's the same with the script. if I have a disdain or I have a dislike for the delivery or for the language, or for the content -- Anne: Or the message, maybe. Right? Yeah. Lau: — then I'm skirting the intent. What's the intent? Oh, the intent is to get you to understand how this new product worked, or, or how the new program is gonna help your lifestyle. That's really what it is. It's like a, in acting, we call this the super intention, the super objective. Anne: Maybe this is the wrong way to phrase it, but I think intention can change throughout the script. So you don't come at the script in the first couple of sentences with a particular intention and it stays that same intention. Because a lot of times, right, we're there to tell a story. And so intention point of view changes along with the storyline. And if you're not necessarily reading that, right, or understanding that, then you're not doing a good job at telling the story. Lau, at the beginning when we were talking about coffee, I was like, oh, thank God, coffee. I was, was that sense of relief. And then we started talking about, well, my lipstick, I get excited, right? Lau: Yeah. Anne: So I have a different, and it may not be an extreme change in my emotion, but I talked about my lipstick. I'm like, it made me smile. Right? And so that was a different intention. And as we flowed with the conversation, our point of view changed. Our intention changed to help us to go along and flow with the storyline. Lau: Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you BOSSes listening in can have fun, you know, treat it like a board game, have fun with your actor friend, or your accountability buddy, or even with your husband — have fun and take a few minutes and say, okay, what are all the things I'm using in my world here that can be helpful to the delivery of the read? But, oh, wait a second. What's the intention? What's the intention of this? Why do I take a moment and put this on? There's a reason for it, there's a purpose for it, whatever that is. Why do I pick up my water bottle and drink it? Sure, it makes me feel good and it's delicious. But the intention is what, to hydrate. Anne: To be healthy. Lau: To to be healthy, right? Why do I drink my coffee cup if I'm delivering a script, right? It's not just for Anne to see that I'm drinking coffee. It's for me to feel energized, to feel warm, to feel connected. Coffee's a big psychological connector for a lot of people. Right? Anne: And notice all of the emotions that go along with that. I mean, that is something to really think about. I think that, you know, I'm always telling my students that there's a purpose for every word. Even if you don't agree with all of the words that are there, there's a purpose for them being on the paper. Somebody somewhere at some point thought about what they wanted to communicate, and all of those words have meaning. So to just read through them as if they didn't have meaning or any point of view, I think is a disservice. It's a disservice to the copy. It's a disservice to the story that you're telling. And so, no matter how nuanced it is, right? You don't have to be like, oh my God, I'm so happy! And then, oh, I'm very, very -- you know, it doesn't have to be that to be dramatic. Nothing has to be dramatic. As a matter of fact, the more nuanced you are, I think, the more you, you can really connect. And the people that are listening, they'll get that. And sometimes I feel like nuances mean more. I really believe that. Lau: Nuances are life. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Right? Anne: And it can really, really have meaning. And so I say look for the meaning in the point of view. And the point of view to me is synonymous with bringing yourself to the copy. Bringing an emotion to the copy that is reflective of how you feel the company would like to bring that emotion out to the potential client. Lau: Anne, hold on one second. Hold on. I'm coughing. (laughs). Anne: All right, no problem. Lau: I love nuances though. I wanna say something about that. My intention (laughs). Anne: Now see, there's a real world moment there where Lau is actually having a little bit of a coughing spell and(laughs), see, and I've reacted to it. Show a little bit of concern. Lau: I don't mind if you show that too, Anne; I don't mind if you keep that in, because the intention sometimes changes with the same item. So we don't have to stay static on our intentions, is exactly what you saying. The nuance of being hydrated is important. We do it and we know it's important. But see how my intention changed? I had to get myself out of the coughing fit by dealing with the vocal folds quickly so that I could continue the conversation. So it deepened, the stakes got higher. It became much more important that I drank the water. Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Lau: So the prop in itself changes. It changes, the intention gets deeper. You change it. You have the power, you have the superpower to take your environment and have it utilize it in your favor to solve your problem or to fill your need. Anne: And I think also -- so it goes beyond just like a surface — here are some words on a piece of paper. Let me read them and let me try to figure out what this company is saying. Like what we've done is we've actually brought in so many components of our real world experiences to help us to tell this story better. And I think it warrants, BOSSes, it warrants a little bit of time from you before you run in your studio and do your audition. I say this all the time, I feel like there's this, I don't know, a long time ago, there was like, somebody said, you must do this many auditions in a day. And all of a sudden we become like, I must get 60 auditions out a day in order to be successful in voiceover. And in reality, like getting 60 auditions out a day probably does nothing for your performance in terms of, if you're just so intent on rushing through them, and you're not thinking about what's the story? How am I going to bring this to life? And I believe it takes a few minutes of your time -- not a ton. You don't have to spend hours breaking apart a script. But you do need to spend a few minutes really kind of reading, rereading, trying to find out what is the true message. And again, I'm always saying, sometimes we will get auditions, and I'll be like, I have no idea what this is even talking about. Now when that happens, that means that Anne has to look at the script again and again, and really try to read those words. Do my Google, Anne GanGoogle, do my Google to find out what I can, if the product is listed or the company is listed, or even any phrase that seems like it might be a tagline, Google it. God, we are so lucky, right, to have that? Lau: So lucky. Anne: And to just try to understand what is the story? Because again, somebody was paid probably a good deal of money to sit down and write that story. And you just may not be privy to what product it is or what company it is. But you have to understand what that story is. And I think a lot of times, it's probably purposely vague because they wanna see who the actors are. (laughs). They wanna see who can bring those words alive and tell the story. And that requires our imagination. And every time I ask somebody to think about corporate and what's your moment before when you're gonna do this corporate responsibility -- everybody's like, what? Like, what do you mean? What's my moment before? Why would I ever say this? And you really must, because to somebody at that company, it's their heart. Like they're responsible, like their corporate responsibility is, this is their purpose. This is something probably that came very deep within, or I wanna say this, I mean, unless you're an evil company, right? I mean, but (laughs) for most companies, like my company mission, my company purpose, come from a very deep, deep within my soul because I formed that company because I believe that I had a product that would help someone. And that's what I like to believe about all corporate scripts. And that helps me, by the way, to get into a purposeful and positive mind frame, to be able to voice just about any corporate script. Because that's how I, I assume every founder or owner of a company must feel at some point like, I'm gonna form this company 'cause I have this great idea. This is gonna help people. And yeah, of course, maybe I can make some money too off of it. But I like to always consider the heart mission of a company or a product that. Lau: Love that. Because it's so easy to flatten out and just perfunctory-ize -- I think I just made up a new word. Perfunctory-ize, meaning just not come with any sense of joy, energy or imagination to something that you don't care about or you don't know about. But to understand, and this is to me the true empathy factor of nuance. Like to me, the more nuanced person -- like you're a tremendously nuanced person because you have a depth of understanding and knowledge and empathy -- Anne: Empathy is huge. Lau: — and what someone else is going through and living through. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And you don't have to necessarily know or have experienced it yourself. You just have the knowledge and the history behind you to know it is a truth. It is their truth. And so I have to take a little bit of time to find intention to represent their truth. And that's nuance right there. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. If somebody asked me what's the most important component as a voice actor that you can have? Or what's the most important thing to think about as a voice actor to be authentic and believable and real when you're voicing a script? I would say empathy. And empathy toward your listener. Who is your listener? What are their joys? What are their pains? How can you help them? And how can what you're saying make them feel better, look better, I don't know, make more money, make them healthier — whatever it is, come from a place of service?I just really believe that empathy is the one word that everybody should just have in their back pocket for a great read. Lau: Well, the more you give the more you do get. And sometimes the get is really like this inner true feeling, whatever that feeling is, that you then connect to the experience. And so you can bring that back to the experience. And so that's why I believe, you know, as actors and as vocal actors, we get addicted to the work, because we get addicted to the feeling of that authentic getting back. So the more we give, the more we potentially can get back. But we have to give true and authentic intention. And if we don't, then it's flat and it's kind of boring, and we fizzle out quickly; we get exhausted. Anne: Sure, sure. Lau: It's actually depleting. Anne: And I think, you know how I can always tell I have, I have a really great read is when I feel it. When I feel it. Lau: When you feel it. Right. Anne: But I feel it. Lau: Right. Anne: Because sometimes things just happen and it's just like, I don't know how that happened, but it just did. Lau: It just did. Anne: It was amazing. Right? Lau: That's the magic. Anne: That's the magic. And I wish that I had that for every single read that I do. And I think that as an actor is what I try to achieve, right -- Lau: Yeah. Anne: — is the feel it felt right. It felt good, it felt authentic and it felt believable. So I always try to tell people to just feel and not listen. And it's so hard to not listen because I think from a very young age, when I got behind the mic and all of a sudden my voice was amplified from that mic, right? Then I felt like, ooh, now I have to sound even better. And interestingly enough, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for just the you that is amplified louder by a device that sits in front of you on a day-to-day basis. We're really just looking to connect with you. Lau: That's right. And I, I would say be careful of chasing the high. 'Cause a lot of people come in and whether it's the money or the feeling of excitement or whatever — don't get addicted to chasing the high or the dopamine kick. Just know it will be there at times for you. But you gotta like -- think of my analogy of like, you gotta take the trash to the dump. There's a lot of work, there's a lot of groundwork that happens in order for you to come back to the clean home and go, ooh, smells fresh. And I'm feeling good. So you can't get one without the other. You can't get the reward without the real work put in. Anne: Absolutely. What a great analogy, Lau. Like honestly, like we could just, just all go home now. Like take it to the dump (Lau laughs). BOSSes, take it to the dump, then come back. Lau: Take it to the dump. Anne: Take it to the dump and come back refreshed. I love it. Lau, what a really cool discussion. Thank you so much. Lau: My pleasure. Anne: BOSSes as individuals, you know, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but of course we've been talking with Lau today and how we can make an impact. Well, if you ever wished that you could make more of an impact with your communities in ways that you never before thought possible, find out at 100voiceswhocare.org. And thank you so much to ipDTL that allows Lau and I to connect and have these amazing conversations. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you looking to create a standout voiceover demo? Look no further! Anne and Lau provide insights into the process, emphasizing the importance of custom-written copy, a team approach, and a unique story. They explore the significance of target marketing your demo for different types of work and also discuss the ideal length for different types of demos and the value of breaking them into individual segments on your website for easy navigation. They also discuss the importance of keeping demos contemporary and relevant to current trends and emphasize the need for a strong opening and a range of styles throughout your demo. Interested in learning more? Don't miss this episode... Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: Hey Lau. How are you? Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back. Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau. Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak? Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today! Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today. Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here. Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding. Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm? Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv. Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right? Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that. Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably. And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that. Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig. Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene. And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right? Lau: Yes. Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you. Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do. Anne: You do. Absolutely. Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne? Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop. But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning. Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, "but I don't, I don't eat cheese," "I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy," and"I don't drive cars." Especially like that. Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product. Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object. Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here. Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right? Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this? Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly. Anne: And look, I can drink. Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup. Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry. Lau: It's still there. Anne: It doesn't feel dry. Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you. Anne: Well, right? Lau: I would get it. Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible. Lau: They're gone. Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen. Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right? Anne: Have I convinced you? Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life. Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way. Lau: That's all improv. Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else. Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference. Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic "what if," right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right? Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right? Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting. Lau: Oh, yeah. Anne: Right? Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick. Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about. So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion? Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money. Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical. I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life. And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv. Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos? Lau: Improv is important in everything, Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau. Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system. Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better. And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them. Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing. Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well? Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to -- Anne: And it's so much fun. Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free. Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it. Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life. Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

If you're new to the voice over industry, there's a lot to learn. Luckily there are plenty of resources out there that can help you get your bearings and start building your career. Anne is joined by special guest Tracy Lindley, a voice actor & expert on utilizing LinkedIn as a marketing tool for voice actors. On LinkedIn, it's all about relationships—and not just with other actors. Remember to focus on fostering genuine connections and optimizing your online presence to attract potential clients. With persistence and the right strategies, you'll be well on your way to establishing a thriving career in voice acting. Stay engaged, keep learning, and watch your network—and opportunities—grow. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring very special guest, Tracy Lindley to the podcast. Hey Tracy. Tracy: Hey Ann. How's it going? Anne: It's going great. So a little bit about Tracy. Tracy's been a full-time voice actor since 2014 -- we are kind of twinsies on that one -- and regularly voices projects for clients like Hewitt Packard, Realtor.com, iHeartRadio, Health.com, and many others. She is a well known expert in the field of LinkedIn and finding clients and is also a mom to four kids, ages 7 to 13, who also do voiceover. And she lives in the Midwest area where it's very cold right now. Tracy: Yes, I'm bundled up in a sweater. Anne: Well, Tracy, I am so excited to finally have you here on the show. I feel like we're like ships that pass in the night because I've been following you for such a long time, and I've seen you at conferences, but we've just kind of like passed each other by. Tracy: I bet I've been following you for longer because I remember when I was first starting out, you had a great interview on VO Buzz Weekly that I watched. Anne: Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Tracy: Yes. It was a wonderful two-part interview and I learned so much, and I was like, man, she is just dropping truth bombs on here. Anne: Well, thank you that I'm very honored about that. My goodness. But you, I mean, my gosh, you are just blazing this path to the stars with your career, and really in the last couple of years, you are absolutely the known person outside of being great in voiceover and talented, but also all about marketing and LinkedIn. And so I'm excited to talk to you about that today, because I was much more involved in LinkedIn a few years back. And then my business kind of, I have separate paths. Now, I'm not as able to keep up as much as I'd like on LinkedIn, so I'm getting ready to learn a whole lot, and BOSSes, I think you're gonna learn a whole lot from this wonderful, wonderful talent here. So let's get going. Before we talk about LinkedIn, tell us a little bit about your journey into voiceover. Tracy: Well, it started out with me just hanging out, washing dishes in my kitchen, listening to VO Buzz Weekly and other great podcasts like VO BOSS, which is on the resource page that I have on my website to recommend to other talent that are learning. Anne: Thank you. Tracy: Because you are always giving us value and you have since the very beginning, and I've learned so much from you. You are a wiz at marketing yourself and a great person just relationally. You know how to connect the dots and how to communicate very well. Anne: Well, thank you for that. Tracy: Oh, well you're welcome. I mean, part of the fun of being on podcasts is getting to tell people how much I enjoy them personally because I'm very relational myself, and I think think that if someone was just starting out in the industry, I feel like the best way to get started is to research. And that's what I tell everybody. Research, research, research. Read the articles, listen to the podcasts, watch the vlogs. Do all of those things. And there are some great paid courses too. I recommend all of that stuff because you can't just learn in bits and pieces so much. Sometimes you need to kind of put it all together, and we all connect those dots as we're going along in our journey. But I can't remember now what your original question is. Oh my. My journey. Anne: Your journey. Yes. Your journey. Because you've been doing this a long time. I think we started around the same time actually, and I was working part-time for a little bit before I went into it full-time. Were you always in it full-time or did you? Tracy: No. Anne: Okay. So you started part-time. Tracy: I was a claims adjuster for an auto insurance company. And I know you were, from your story, you were working on installing telephone systems, right? Anne: Yep, absolutely. Tracy: And that's how you got your start was hey, they needed a voice to be on the systems. And for me, I have a communication degree, and when I was in college, I had an internship at a cable company and one day the producer just handed me a piece of paper and was like, hey, you have a nice voice. Will you read this? I'm like, okay, sure. . So I read it, I get in there, it's no more than a small closet with foam in it in a microphone, right? So it's nothing fancy. So I go in there and I read it, and I just found that I have this natural sense of timing. I knew what 30 seconds should be. And that goes back even further to me just reading out loud to kids at the library when I was like 12, 13, 14. I just volunteered my time, and I was always like the babysitter that everybody wanted to come and hang out with their kids. So I have read to kids out loud several years of my life and still love reading out loud to my own kids. Reading out loud is such a skill that we don't realize we need to develop. Because when we're reading a book, you know, we're not gonna typically read out loud to ourselves. So sometimes it feels weird and it feels strange, but that's one of the best skills that we can learn when we're getting into into the industry. Anne: Oh yeah. That's like cold reading skills right there. And I remember myself as a youngster, I would always be that person that would raise the hand -- who wants to read out loud for the class? Tracy: Yes. Anne: Me. And I wrote books too when I was really young. When I was in kindergarten, I learned to write, and I started to write books and I read them to the first graders, and it was all about Nibbles the Bunny. But I think that maybe that was so long ago though. Tracy: Okay. I feel like -- Anne: That was like my start . Tracy: -- we have got to publish these books. The world needs to see Nibbles the Bunny. Anne: I'm telling you -- Tracy: Have you considered that? Anne: ? I wish. I wish that I had a picture of it or a record of what it was that I wrote, but I vividly remember drawing the bunny. I illustrated too. And then I wrote the books, and I was so proud to read them, and all of my career, and I know yours too, I think a lot of voice actors when they get into it, they're good cold readers, or they've always been like excited to read or perform in front of an audience. And it's wonderful for your cold reading skills. And then I think what happens is, as we really get into the acting of voiceover, then it becomes something where you don't wanna use that as a crutch. You wanna use it to get yourself to quickly get into the story, but then you need to act. And then if you're reading too much and then it's gonna sound like you're reading too much, but I digress. But I think it's a wonderful skill that everybody needs in order to just, you know, be quick on their feet. Once you get those script changes that come in like at the last minute, you've gotta be able to do a quick cold read and understand and comprehend that story so that you can then tell it back while you're voicing it. Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to have that -- that child doesn't have those inhibitions that we do as adults. So I feel like if we could just tap into our inner child, we wouldn't be scared of it, you know, because we can all get performance anxiety, especially the more and more and more people come into the room to listen to us perform, it just becomes so scary. So it really all comes down to just reading out loud, having fun with it, telling a story. That's what we're here for. Anne: Absolutely. Now this is a little earlier than I was gonna get into it, but you're a mom of four kids, so big family. I'm also one of four in the family. Actually through the pandemic I became one of six and that's just a whole 'notherpodcast where I found out I had a brother and a sister, which is a wonderful thing. But I loved being a family where we're close in age. Tell me about your family, 'cause they're also doing voiceover, and I love how you just talked about how we need to be kids, we need to feel uninhibited. And so do you work with your kids and then also learn from them as well or be reminded of that as well? Tracy: Oh gosh, I'm always learning lessons from them. And a lot of those lessons involve being patient and being a good communicator, breaking down what I need from you and saying it nicely. . Anne: Oh yeah. And hey, that works in marketing too, right? . Tracy: Yeah, that's true. I mean direct communication, but doing it kindly is I think a big key to marketing effectively. Anne: Yeah. Tracy: But my kids are always teaching me stuff. Like last night, my daughter, she's nine, she's the middle daughter'cause I have a son and then three girls. Anne: Okay. Tracy: So the middle daughter is right in that sweet spot. You see a lot of auditions that come through 8 to 10, 8 to 10. So she's right there. She's also recently started taking vocal lessons. They do coach as well. Martha Khan is an excellent teacher for kids. Love her, my kids love her. But my daughters, all four of the kids actually take piano lessons, so -- Anne: I did too. Tracy: Oh yes. It's great. We need that musicality. Anne: It's so wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And I use that musicality when I coach as well because there's a melody to conversation. There's a melody in which most people are trying to achieve that natural, conversational, authentic, and there's a melody to it, believe it or not, if you break it down, so. Tracy: Were you a vocalist as well? Or are you still? Anne: Yeah, I mean I don't sing professionally, but you know, I sing in the shower, but for the longest time I was in choir for all four years of high school and went to the all-states and the all-counties and absolutely. I still love, love to sing. And it is something that, and playing piano, understanding where your notes are and being able to read music, it greatly helped breaking down the performance of a conversation. And so yeah. It's the basis of how I teach a lot actually. 'cause there's a lot of people who are musical that come into this industry. So piano's wonderful. Tracy: Yeah, they really have an advantage. I took lessons, uh, piano lessons for seven years as well. And I definitely see a lot of legato, staccato. Anne: Yes. Tracy: Those are pretty big themes in what we do. Anne: Yeah. Tracy: And also understanding how to translate what the client is saying. I actually see sort of musically in my head. Anne: Oh yeah, there's a rhythm. There's definitely a rhythm to it and a beat. And also the emotional part of it too, right, the emotion that gets put into it and the passion that gets put into it. Words are notes and really it's phrasing is very similar, right? We don't breathe in the middle of our phrases when we talk. It's not like I'm going to talk to you like this. You know, , it's, yeah. There's just a whole composition to it and, and I believe in my demo production too, it's a storyline from beginning to end. So it's amazing how much music plays into, at least how I identify and can work within voiceover and also coach it. Tracy: Yes. Imagination too. We've got to again tap into that inner child where we're able to let ourselves go into the story and become the character. Anne: Oh yes. Tracy: My daughter and I both have -- my older daughter, my 11-year-old, she loves like fairy tales, princess stories, anything that involves, you know, that kind of fantasy world. And right now I cannot get her nose out of this book that she's reading. It's the Ella Enchanted author. I can't remember -- her last name is Levine. Anyway, caught her reading by the light of the nightlight last night when she's supposed to be sleeping. But that kind of joy for the story Yeah. Is what we need as adults. And that's another thing that I was talking to my daughter last night with the auditions is that --'cause they needed her to do some giggles. And sometimes it's hard to get kids to laugh on command, and I'll tickle 'emand I'll do whatever I need to, but I'm just like, pretend you're having fun with your friends. I want you to think about the best day. I want you to think about when you do your gymnastics and you just, you love life and let it bubble up and come out of you. So she's still working on that. She's a little nervous in front of the mic still. But it's all part of the journey. So I do learn a ton from my kids. That's a great question that I don't think everyone's ever really asked me before. Anne: Oh, and you know what's so funny is that when I was teaching, of course I worked in high school, I learned so much, probably more from the kids than they might've learned from me. I mean, my hope was to inspire and motivate them, but boy did I learn a whole lot from them. It's why I coach today because I really feel that give and take, and I can completely understand when you're working with your children. Like it's such a wonderful give and take when you're experiencing that together, and you're learning together and you're guiding her and hopefully getting her super excited to just excel at voiceover, and so great for you. Now how do you find the time? There's the, the question probably everybody asks you, because I was part of a four child family and I know how busy my mom was. She was constantly carting me everywhere to my piano lessons or whatever that was. I also rode horses, but it was a crazy busy time for my mom. So how do you do it all? Tracy: I just really think time management's important, but also just understanding boundaries. I have worked for many years without my kids being away and with having really limited childcare hours. Because I love my kids and I want to spend time with them. So everything I teach, I say do it in the cracks of life. There's always little windows and bits, and if you can take that, you can actually concentrate it and do more in that time. I've found that since my kids, all four of them, are in school full-time, I have to really reign myself in and plan my day more consecutively to where I'm using it more effectively. Because when I just had two hours and a day to work during nap time, boy, I really hustled. And I really focused on marketing on LinkedIn. That was the thing that I needed to do. I have not enjoyed endless auditioning. That's not something that really floats my boat. I don't love it. Anne: I don't either. Tracy: I do auditions. Yeah. And actually, actually I joined Bodalgo. Anne: Did I say that? Yeah. Don't either. Tracy: We have to do what we have to do. Anne: I know. Tracy: But I don't hardly audition on Voice123 because there's just so many and there's so many people. But I do love of course agents, I will audition everything that I feel is appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Tracy: -- for my -- absolutely. So agents, current clients that maybe they need three choices to send to their end person. Yeah. Or some of the different production houses that I'm part of, they'll need auditions and Bodalgo. But really that's it. Most of the time it's directly communicating with the client 'cause that is where I really enjoy. Anne: Yeah, I love that. And you know, that's so interesting 'cause I feel that we're kind of like soul sisters in that area because right now, the way that I have -- I'm doing a lot of things. I mean, I'm doing this podcast, I'm doing a VO Peeps group and I also coach and I do voiceover, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to auditioning. And so for me it was more about the direct marketing. One of the things that I developed because I didn't have a ton of time, was the BOSS Blast, which was a direct marketing to a list. And that makes total sense that for you, you would go and use LinkedIn or use whatever social platform that worked for you to get those jobs directly because that kind of bypasses a lot of times the need for an audition. And also I, I would imagine, I'm gonna talk to you about that, like what search engine optimization has to do in LinkedIn that helps you get found, and people maybe reach out to you, and then if they hear your demo or you've got samples up there, I would imagine that then they just say, have an inquiry and say how much would it cost to do this? And for me that's the time saver where I don't have to audition. And it's not that I won't audition, but it's just that I don't have a ton of time. So I had to get more efficient at my marketing. So then let's talk about LinkedIn. Now, why LinkedIn, first of all for you and not some other social platform? Tracy: Well, I mean the other ones are fun, but when people think about business, they think about LinkedIn. It is the number one most widely used business social media platform. So naturally that's where I was gonna go because I'm not interested in getting followers and being popular online. I'm just here to build those business relationships and grow my business. And I did it. I mean, I would market to as many people as I could. My goal was 20 people per day, new people that I would reach out to. As a young person in my career as a young mom of little kids, I knew my time was limited, so that's where I focused. I said I'm gonna market to 20 people per day. And I kept like a little, just a paper, like a written, handwritten notebook where I would write down names and dates, and then I would, you know, make a note back if someone contacted me back. But it was just a visual tool to show me that I had actually accomplished something that day. And now I have a resource in my LinkedIn marketing course, the VO Edge, that's called Five Daily Reach Outs. Because 20 is a lot, and I realize that's a lot. So, but five, anybody can do five. And that's why over the years I've learned from people like you, people like Natasha Marcheska, people that know how to break a big task into little tasks. If you do that, you can accomplish so much more because you're not gonna get discouraged. And to have a plan. I guarantee that you don't wake up wondering, I wonder what I'm gonna do today. You know what you're doing because you are super organized. Anne: Well, I think you have to be, right? And especially for us to be successful and to continue to grow in our businesses. I mean we have to be, because we've got a lot of things that we're doing. I mean, you're a mom of four, you're a voice talent, you're running a online -- is it an online course and is it live as well? Tracy: No, it's just online. Anne: That's a lot -- okay. Tracy: It's online only. And I did that to save myself time. I really put a lot of thought into planning out the different modules and lessons and I tightly edited them so there's no wasted time because I don't like my time to be wasted. And I didn't wanna do that to anybody else. So it's about two hours of content overall. And I also do like a little introductory pump up video to kind of get people excited and motivated to do that module and that lesson. But yeah, it's totally, anybody can do it in their own time. It's on demand, and you can go revisit it anytime. It's all videos and there's some downloads too. Anne: And I imagine 'cause creating curriculum, of course being an educator, right, for the longest time, I mean, it takes time to create good content. So for you to keep that up to date and keep that as a successful online course, congratulations. First of all, I know how much time that takes and how much effort it takes to get really good content and a really good course online that people can really get value out of. Now do you do any special coaching? I'm sure people are coming up to you and go, please, can you just help me with my profile, or do you do any type of individual coaching as well? Tracy: Yeah. I'll do one-on-one and so I'll do like a private consulting session for an hour, and we'll go over, typically we'll start with the profile. And I always ask, Hey, please send me any questions in advance, the things you really wanna know because I'm not gonna waste your time and we're gonna go quickly during this hour. Anne: Good. Tracy: But I don't do a ton of that because the course is so comprehensive that most people get their questions answered through that. Anne: Awesome. Tracy: And I really do direct them towards the course because then it doesn't take up my time. Anne: Right. Tracy: But I love working with people as you know, it's so much more fun to get to know people individually during that hour. So I mean, I made a friend by the end of the hour and I love that. Anne: Yeah. It is. The only thing is, is that as you keep trying to -- and for me, I'm, I'm very business minded, right? And for me, if I'm not growing then I'm stagnating and that's not necessarily where I wanna be. And so personally in my business, I'm always looking to grow in one way or another. And so every week, every month, every year, I'm looking at how can I grow my business? And so your personal time is probably the most precious time that you have. And so for example, I can't coach any more people. I cannot do any more one-on-ones because I'm one person, and I simply don't have the hours in the day to do everything that I wanna do. So it is important to be efficient. So let's talk a little bit more about the LinkedIn. You're using the free version of LinkedIn, right? Tracy: Right. I've never done the premium. Anne: Okay. You've never even tried it? Tracy: No. Anne: Okay. Tracy: It's just so robust, I don't need it. Anne: Okay. Tracy: You do get limited on the number of connections, but what I've taught people is that you can put your searches in and then bookmark it. And that way you can just keep going back to that page, and it doesn't keep ding you for additional searches. Anne: Oh, got it. Tracy: So that's a big secret that a lot of people. Anne: We can go home now. That's it. That's a . That's it. That's the nugget. Tracy: But I mean, what you mentioned earlier about optimizing the SEO, so let's talk about that. Anne: Yes. Tracy: That is one of the key things. And you're great at that on your website. I know that. Anne: Oh, thank you. Tracy: Well, you come from a tech -- Anne: It's lot of work. Yeah. Tracy: -- background. Yes. Yes. And it's additional content. Anne: But it's worthy. Tracy: Yes. Anne: It's definitely worth it to spend the time on the content because it brings people to your site. And I imagine people on LinkedIn searching for voiceover talent, like you want them to reach your profile. Tracy: Right. Anne: So yeah, let's talk about what do you do to enhance your SEO for that? Tracy: Well, so there are three steps in what I teach with LinkedIn. And the first step is optimizing your profile. So that's where you must start. Do not start reaching out to people if you haven't completely shined up your profile and made it the best it can be. So obviously that would be the base step in step one. So step one involves just putting yourself forward authentically. One of the things that I really harp on is how there's so much inauthentic, spammy marketing, and you can stand out by being authentic. I consider my life messy. People know that I have four kids and I don't hide it. I put all over my Instagram, I just posted one recently about going Christmas shopping with the kids, and it was just, I did not wanna go. It starts off with me making a face, you know, like I don't wanna do this. And I used like the circus theme because sometimes that's how I feel like I live in a circus. So I allow people to get a glimpse into my messiness. And I feel like that's actually been a boost to my brand, because I'm relatable and we all have messes. So why pretend to be perfect? So when you create your profile, though, you are your most businessy self on LinkedIn. So I'm not nearly as messy there. I will be all kinds of messy on Instagram and Facebook. But here on LinkedIn we're a little bit more put together. We wanna make sure that people know we can handle the work. We're not gonna flake, we're dependable. So key words that emphasize those kinds of business ethics are key. And also speaking from a one-on-one perspective, don't make it sound like, Tracy Lindley is a full-time voice actor, that kind of thing. You wanna say I am. So you're speaking to the first person. I tell people to look at it as if you were at a networking event and you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, what do you do? So you've got a big picture back here where you're giving an overall view of who you are, 'cause they asked, and if they're visiting your profile, that's kind of like asking what do you do? Let me get to know you a bit. And then when you get down to the experience section about being a voice talent, then that's when you get into more of the nitty gritty like clients, agents, those kinds of things. Anne: Do you put examples and demos on there as well in your profile? Tracy: Oh yeah. That's key. Anne: Media? Tracy: I mean, why would you wanna hire somebody that doesn't have any examples at all of their work? Anne: Right. Tracy: And don't make 'em go looking on your website. That wastes their time. Everything that we do needs to be client-centered, and it wastes the client's time to take them to your website or some other source. You should put it right there on LinkedIn. Put all your best examples. And a lot of times people are starting out brand new. Like if you've coached someone and they've just created a demo, and they have no body of work, they can take that demo that you've created with them and turn it into a video and display that on LinkedIn. Anne: Videos are effective. Tracy: Yes. And you can't really do an MP3 on LinkedIn. You have to do some sort of video. So sometimes people do SoundCloud, but I don't find that very effective 'cause it's just a static picture. And I think even a very simple video is fine. Some people do make it look like all these clips of commercials, which is really cool, but it's also costly. And if people are bootstrapping their business at the beginning, it's really easy to create a very simple video with your picture and just a few things, contact information on the back. Contact information is huge because that's our call to action is contact me. Anne: What about your feed on LinkedIn? Are you posting to the feed on LinkedIn? Are you creating content? Because I know a big thing, gosh, a couple years ago when I was looking back into it was creating content and posts like short blog posts in LinkedIn. Is that still, is that effective? Is that, what are your thoughts on that? Tracy: You know, video's really taken over. Blogs are still fantastic and also they can link back to your website, which boosts your SEO, but really video is king right now, and those are the things that are gonna get the most engagement. But you can't just get on camera and talk about nothing. You have to give people something of value. And you have to to keep it short. So when I post videos, I try to keep 'em less than two minutes, 90 seconds if I can. You know, it just depends. I'll do it in one, two, no more than three takes. And if I can't get it in three takes, just forget it. I'll come back later. Because mm-hmm. I want it fresh, I want it off the cuff. Anne: Yeah. I agree. Tracy: I want it to be as authentic as possible. Anne: Yeah, I agree. And so the big question is, and I know most of, a lot of students will, well what do I post? Or what do I talk about? Like what do you talk about? Do you talk about voiceover? I don't think the intent is to do a hard sell on hire me, I do voiceover. What are your thoughts on creative videos that would bring value? Tracy: Well, I'd say touch on things that make us human, touch on things that make us a business person. So one of the best videos I ever did was talking about how I am extra, and at my kids's school I was doing the announcing for the volleyball game, and I was told after that, hey, you know, you don't need to commentate so much about the volleyball game, you know, just do the sponsors and say something at the end of the match. Okay. But I didn't, I just would say something after like every point. I think it did get a little annoying. I did learn from that, but my point was I just couldn't sit there with this microphone and not say things. So I just realized I am extra and I made a little video out of that and about rejoicing in being extra. And so -- Anne: I love that. Tracy: Yes. So many people relate to that. And that kind of thing that brings us together as humans. it makes us who we are. And I was the kind of girl that went door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood and asking if I could rake your leaves and things. I've always been a go-getter and I know you are too, Anne. And when you're a go-getter in this industry, you can't just sit back and do the minimum. Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Tracy: That was my video. Anne: Agreed. Well, I love that. So now outside of LinkedIn, right, and of course BOSSes out there, I totally encourage all of you just go take the course, just do it. LinkedIn is just one of the best resources for getting work that I can think of. I guess my last question before I ask you, the big question, which is I will get to that, is let's talk about templates or how do you reach out to somebody in a cold contact? I feel like cold contacting people is difficult. That I know. And so how do you wrangle that in reaching out and not being considered spammy? Is there a tip or two or three that you have in reaching out to people? Tracy: Sure. My biggest tip is to look for anything that you can use to find common ground. So when people are just starting out using LinkedIn, one of the best ways to reach out is by geographic area. So you could reach out to folks in LA, I can reach out to folks in Kansas City, and that way we have that in common already and we know that. And that's an easy thing to put into the search terms when we're using the search features of LinkedIn is geographical area. So that's one thing. But another thing, I encourage people to look through their profile and find something that they can relate to. Maybe they mention a cat or a dog or kids, or I like to watch the Chiefs, whatever. Find something. If they've written any kind of personal about section, usually you can find something interesting there to comment about. But as far as templates, I am pro templates within reason, I do think that it's good -- if you're gonna kind of write similar things each time, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So I do encourage people to write templates, but personalize like the first sentence and always say that person's correctly spelled name. Anne: Oh yeah. . Absolutely. Tracy: Like I bet people spell your name A-N-N. And you're like, uh... Anne: Yes. All the time. All the time. They do. Tracy: And I always get, yes, T-R-A-C-E-Y is how people end up spelling my name. I'm like, there's no E. . We don't like that. Anne: There's no E. Absolutely. Well, what wonderful advice. Now in addition to LinkedIn, what would be your best business tip for people just getting into the industry on how to establish their business or get work and be successful? Tracy: I would say the best thing is to start local. Start with who you know. I think I'm hearing from your story that people who were your first clients were people you actually knew in your life, and they were in mind too. So when you are truly ready to hang out your open for business sign, which means you've got a great website, you've got a great professionally produced demo, you have enough training to where if someone says, I need this, you can give it to them-- your sound quality has to be top notch, you have to have a low sound floor, no buzzing, no echo, all that stuff, and you know how to use your equipment, including source connect. If you say that you have source connect -- okay. If you have all that stuff, then you are ready to start hanging out your sign and telling people on Facebook and Instagram and whatever that you're doing voiceover. And chances are there's someone in your life who needs voiceover, especially if you have a decent personal social network. And that's kind of how it happened for me was I was personally connected to someone that owned a marketing firm, and he was one of my first clients. My alma mater hired me to do a short documentary. There were some little IVR things that I did, and it just kind of snowballs. Anne: Absolutely. Tracy: Yeah. And then I felt confident. I'm like, okay, I have a little bit of work here that I can showcase. It may not be any brand names that are super sexy, but it's work, and it sounds good and it looks good, so let's put it out there. So that's what I started doing. It builds on each other. Anne: It's amazing how important local can be in establishing relationships. Also, relationships that keep coming back as you nurture it. I have so many repeat clients that I've had for years because like you say, communication is key, and nurturing those relationships are key. And a lot of them started off locally. And I think that that is something people don't think of. And that also locally helps when you're advertising like where you are voicing from, like voicing from Southern California or Orange County, California or Los Angeles area. Even just putting those words on your website help for people to find you because most of the times when people are searching using Google, it's automatically got localization turned on. And so if they're searching for voice talent, it's gonna search locally first. And so you wanna be up at the top of that search. So, great advice, Tracy. I wanna thank you so very much for joining me today. Yay. My bucket list checked off. Tracy: Oh, me too. This is so fun. And I'll see you at VO Atlanta in March. Anne: I know, I'm very excited. How can people get in touch with you and where can they go to get that course again? Tracy: Okay, so my website, if people wanna check out me or my work or whatever, that's tracylindley.com. And the course is @thelinkedinedge.com. Or if you wanna just look at the one for voice actors, it's thevoedge.com and it'll take you right there. Anne: Perfect. Tracy: And I'm happy to answer questions. Contact me on Instagram. My handle is @TracyLindleyVO, pretty much everywhere. Anne: Awesome. Tracy, thank you so much again for joining me. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to understand about your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit and find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. Tracy, thank you again, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Tracy: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian. Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today? Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound. Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or -- Anne: Yeah. (laughs). Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there. Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here. Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me. Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio. So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it. Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like? Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology. So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field. So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional. But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor. Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio. Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury. Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go. 'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there. Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client? Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers. Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing. Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio. But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone. So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable. It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian? Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important. But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one. Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then. Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast. Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes -- Anne: To support the equipment, right? Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer. Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say -- Gillian: No, no, tell me. Anne: Update. Update. Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs) Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that. I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment. Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world. Anne: Right. Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you. Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right? Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Which is sucky. Anne: Exactly. Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive. Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time. Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers. Anne: That's a long time. Yeah. Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice. Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times. So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use? Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great. Anne: Sure. Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation -- Anne: Reflection. Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that? Anne: Yeah. Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little -- Anne: Panels. Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them? Anne: Does that go on a mic? Gillian: It goes on a mic stand. Anne: Yes, I have. I have. Gillian: Have you seen I them? Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion. Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious. Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago. Gillian: Wow. Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me. Gillian: Great. Anne: A room in a room is great. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window. Gillian: Wow. Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well. Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is. But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think? Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right? Gillian: The investment is forever. Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs). Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too. Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye. Gillian: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn't reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you'd like it to be written, great! But if it isn't written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: Hey Lau. How are you? Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back. Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau. Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak? Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today! Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today. Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here. Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding. Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm? Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv. Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right? Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that. Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably. And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that. Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig. Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene. And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right? Lau: Yes. Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you. Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do. Anne: You do. Absolutely. Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne? Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop. But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning. Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, "but I don't, I don't eat cheese," "I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy," and"I don't drive cars." Especially like that. Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product. Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object. Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here. Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right? Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this? Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly. Anne: And look, I can drink. Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup. Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry. Lau: It's still there. Anne: It doesn't feel dry. Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you. Anne: Well, right? Lau: I would get it. Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible. Lau: They're gone. Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen. Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right? Anne: Have I convinced you? Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life. Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way. Lau: That's all improv. Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else. Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference. Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic "what if," right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right? Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right? Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting. Lau: Oh, yeah. Anne: Right? Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick. Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about. So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion? Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money. Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical. I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life. And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv. Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos? Lau: Improv is important in everything, Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau. Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system. Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better. And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them. Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing. Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well? Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to -- Anne: And it's so much fun. Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free. Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it. Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life. Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There are very few things in life that are black and white. The world is full of nuances, nuances that can be challenging when they come up in business. Anne & Lau dive into the emotions & decision making process that happens when you make a decision to protect the ethics of your business. Most people don't want to talk about ethics in business. They are uncomfortable with the topic and don't know how to approach it, but discussion is one of the only ways to bring awkward subjects into the light. No decision is without trade-offs. It usually means losing something, whether that's time, money or energy. When faced with a tough decision, ask yourself how this feels in your gut? Is it the right thing for you? For the future of your business? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers. Only decisions that feel right or wrong for you at this moment in time. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited today to bring back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey. Anne: Yay. Hey Lau. Here we are. The BOSS Superpower series. I'm so excited. Lau: Me too. I feel like it's been a long time since I saw you. Anne: I know, right? Lau: I just came back from vacation. Anne: Well, and I, of course I'm working over here like a dog (laughs), and I need a vacation now. But I have to say I encountered something that was difficult for me and my business while you were having fun in the sun there. And I thought we could talk about it today. And it's all about ethics, and ethics in your business, and what you can do to get through a situation that is not easy to deal with, especially when it comes to your moral ethics in terms of will you work with a client. So I had a client. And they asked me for something that did not sit well with me, Lau. And it made me feel icky. (laughs). Lau: Gotcha. Oh my gosh. Anne: Yeah. And it was one of those things where the opportunity was great. There was gonna be opportunities for more work, and this was a very well-known brand. And I really struggled, and it was one of those things, and I thought, well, is it worth it, right, to align myself with this brand when I'm kind of feeling icky about what they're asking me to do, because it could mean more work if I maybe choose not to work with this client? Will I be seen as somebody that's not easy to work with or difficult to work with and will they tell other people? And so it just became, ugh, such a difficult decision, Lau. And I know that in our businesses, I like to think that everything's easy, and all the clients are easy and I get to choose what clients I wanna work with. But every once in a while, a client can also kind of flip on you (laughs). So typically I think I'm a good judge of character, and I can say this is gonna be a great work relationship, and I'm gonna be able to work with this client. But sometimes those clients, maybe the company changes hands or you're working with somebody else from the company, or the rules change or the policy change or whatever it is. Or the script changes. This actually didn't really have to do with the script, Lau, but I also think this applies to any potential job that talent have the opportunity to voice that maybe they don't agree with the copy, with the script. Lau: Right. I'm telling you, as long as I've been alive on this earth, I can tell you that the longer you're in business, the more often you're going to experience this kind of thing. And, and it is to be expected. And as uncomfortable as it is, and it is really uncomfortable, and I, you know, I'm trying to put on my empathy face right now, I also have that feeling that yeah, it's to be anticipated, it's to be expected. And I always like to think of it as like a magic carpet ride. You've got this beautiful carpet, you created it, you're floating, you're flying, you're moving in the direction you wanna be moving in. You're going fast, you're high. Anne: I was flying high, Lau. Lau: Flying high. You feel really secure. You got your seatbelt on. Then all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you and then you fall. And you feel like you're falling, you feel like your credibility's falling, your hopes are falling. The perception of your audience is falling. You feel like you're losing something. And it's scary 'cause you don't know how it's gonna land. You don't know, am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna get out the other way and get up and run? And you always do. You always do. You're most resilient person I know. Like you're gonna get up and run after it. But to go through it is really like, what would you call it? Like the milestone of moving through life and moving through your business and saying when difficult things happen, that's when I build my character. That's really how I react to that and how I stand my ground, and how I build my character is really, I'd like to say what it's all about at the end of the day. And I think you're amazing in the choices that you're making. And so you're making choices about this, right? Anne: Yeah. Oh yeah. Lau: The path, which way you went. Anne: I have to say I made the tough choice, and I chose not to work with the client. And after that, Lau, I had days, I had days where I was second guessing that decision, thinking what would be the ramifications and how would it affect my business, in all aspects. Because I thought, well, this might become something that other clients will know 'causethis client knew a lot of other potential clients that I've worked with. And so it became a thing where I had to sit back in a quiet space and just ask myself how does my gut feel? And I, I know we've talked about this is I, I like to run my business by my gut, and I usually listen to my gut, 'cause for me it's usually the right thing. But I'll tell you, I was back and forth with this and once I made my decision, then I second guessed myself again for days. I mean there was no way, once I had made the decision to cut the relationship; I mean, I couldn't really go back. And so then I just sat there and worried and I thought, oh no. And again, you think that being in business all these years, maybe it would be easier. Or I would be able to get through it quicker. But I think maybe sharing my experience with the BOSSes out there, I can at least share my experience and, and talk to people about here, it happened to me. This is how I felt. Like how did I feel? I felt like once I was given the opportunity, and it was presented with a job, I was initially like taken aback and was so surprised. And then I thought, oh, that doesn't seem right. (laughs) That just doesn't seem right. And so I asked a couple of close friends and colleagues of mine what they thought if maybe I was misreading something. 'Cause I wanted to kind of have another set of eyes on it. And of course this was with people that I trusted and of course I wouldn't wanna shout this on social media or on the rooftops because again, it was a private connection between me and my client. And so I kind of got other people's first initial reactions, which were similar to mine from a lot of people that I spoke to. I then sat with it for a while, and I couldn't get it outta my brain. It was one of those things that, until I said something, we were gonna be working together. It was just gonna be a wonderful thing and a great relationship that was gonna continue on, and I was just gonna continue to work with this client, and things were gonna be lovely, and my business was gonna be accelerated by this. But I kept thinking and feeling in the back of my brain and in my heart that something just didn't sit well. And so then I made that tough decision to cut ties with the client, and then there's the ramifications of the back and forth because I cut the ties with the client through an official email. Right? I had to do that. I would've liked to have actually maybe had some, I don't know, some Zoom time or maybe a phone call. But I had to cut the ties via email. And that was tough. I mean, because trying to go back and forth on something that it's a little more than a, than a negotiation on a job, it's tough to do through email, through text or email. And I was hoping that I would have an opportunity to further, I don't know, either talk to the client and maybe -- I didn't burn any bridges. I didn't wanna burn any bridges. And that was important. So I think that when that happens, BOSSes, you have to really consider, I don't wanna burn bridges. That's just kind of who I am. Although you may not be able to do it without burning a bridge. What are your thoughts, Lau, with all of your years and and experience in the businesses that you've built? It's happened to you. Lau: Oh my goodness. Yes. That's the thing. And you and I talk about this all the time, Anne, you can't get through life completely unscathed, as much as we would like to because we're positive minded people. We wanna think the best of our connections. We wanna give the best, we have the best intentions. You're dealing with human communication. You're dealing with behaviors of human beings that have this whole frame of reference that has nothing to do with you. They're coming to the table with a whole life, a whole mindset, a whole viewpoint that has nothing to do with you. So in my mind that slides into every single exchange that happens, their ethics, their behavior, their morality, their persona. That kind of goes into the mix. And we have to understand that, that when we're doing the recipe, it's not always gonna taste good. The cake's not always gonna come out the way we think it's gonna come out. And that's okay. So I think as women, we make a couple mistakes. One is we do take the brunt, we take the emotional brunt of having to make important decisions or what we perceive to be important decisions and stand that ground and feel uncomfortable with that, and take on the other's trauma, the other's mistakes, the other's whatever. We take that on and we emotionalize that. And I think that's a big issue for us as women because we're high pathos. We're very visceral beings. That's what makes us good at our jobs. But it also is a double-edged sword because that's what makes us take on a lot of things that are not our problem. They're just not our problem. So being able to objectify it just enough, sort of like an audition. So for those of you who are listening in who audition for a living, right, you have to care about it. You have to emotionalize it enough. You have to connect to it so it's authentic. But then when it's done, you have to walk away from it, and you have to disconnect, and you have to not make it the most important thing in your world. And that's the skill that you have, that all successful people have to cultivate is not saying, oh, I don't want things to go wrong. I don't want things to happen where the rug is pulled out from under me. No. But saying -- Anne: I don't wanna disrupt things. I don't wanna disrupt things. Lau: Yes. It's like, are you a gentle disruptor? Are you an eloquent disruptor? Are you an intelligent disruptor? But the disruption will happen. It's just the nature of dealing with human beings, and it's the nature of business. Business is just difficult (laughs) on so many levels. It's tough. It's not easy. And I think if we could learn to objectify enough and walk away, that would be really important to do. Another thing we do too is we exaggerate situations. I noticed this in myself for many years, 'cause I was an actor. I was a professional actor for many years. And I would say, am I a drama queen? I mean, am I, what is wrong with me? Oh ah, I'm an artist. I see things in a certain way, typically emotionally first. And then it becomes larger and larger and larger and larger until it's like massive. But to the outside world, they don't see it that way. To them, it's small, it's simple, it's almost non-existent at times. So I found that for me as a technique to save myself and sort of objectify and say, I think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think I'm exaggerating this into something really huge when I don't think it's viable as a huge thing. I think it's just my perception in the moment of the massiveness of it. The truth is we're not a golden calf. We can be replaced; they can move on. And then sometimes it's almost as if it never happened. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned the over dramatization and, and that I think in terms of feeling the way that I was feeling, right? Oh my gosh, is this going to bring down my business? What are people going to think of me? What if other people find out what happened, and that kind of thing. And I, and you're right, I think it became like for me, emotionally bigger than it should have because I beat myself up over it for a good few days and spent a lot of energy thinking about what if, what if, what if, or oh my gosh, and being stressed out about it that I feel that I probably wasted a lot of energy on that. And I think at that point, when you're going through something like that, having the support of colleagues and friends that can remind you of things like, hey look, this is okay. Do what you feel is right. We'll support you no matter what -- I think that's so important to help you through the tough times for that. And also I think being able to talk about it with a trusted colleague is going to be very, very helpful. And just to remember those things. I mean that's something you said to me, look, why is it that you feel bad for something that has nothing to do with you? And you're right, to the outside world, like it's insignificant, right? And a lot of times we build those issues up in our brain to be larger than life, when in fact nobody's really necessarily even thinking about them or concerned about them. But for me, in my business, I was in such a dilemma. And so I think that for me, after I went through the days of second guessing myself, stress, thinking about what if, what if, what if, I now have come out the other side, and I am proud that I stood my ground and did what I believed in, and I feel stronger for the experience. And again, this is not the first time it's happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to you as well multiple times in your business. It's happened to me before and I've come out the other side fine. And I should remind myself of those things. But I think every situation is different. And in the moment, it may seem like it's, oh my gosh, it's the worst thing in the world that could happen. Lau: It's the worst thing in the world. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And also just for you to note, and I love doing this as a coach but also as a person in the world -- I love passing on what someone says about someone else that they would never know that could be like super amazing and life changing. So I passed on the generality of the situation to a dear female coach and family member of mine of many, many years, just generally speaking. And you know what she said about you, Anne, and you, you don't know her at all. She's not in the industry. She's actually a therapist. Not my therapist. But she's a therapist in the world and we have a lot of crossovers 'cause we're both coaches; she's a life coach. And she said, isn't it nice to know, Lau, that you're not only working with someone of that caliber, but there are people still left in the world that character and morality really means something to them? Anne: Wow. Lau: And are willing to stand their ground for it? And I thought, oh, it's so uncomfortable and upsetting to Anne, but it's so amazing. And like, I don't know what the word is, but it's so like revolutionary to the people who witness it around you, who say — it's almost like you can take a breath and say, wow, there are people in our industry that feel something real about injustice when it happens and actually do something about it, but do something in a very professional, kind, diplomatic, and thoughtful way, not a hostile, angry, violent way. Oh, I love that civility. That level of civility and diplomacy I think is to really be rewarded. And again, you don't know it, and you don't feel it in the situation, and you feel quite oppositional to that. But those around you, your circle that circles you, that witnesses that is really inspired and in awe of that. It sort of gives other people courage. It gives other people strength to say, yeah, if something comes at me, and my rug gets pulled out from under me, people like Anne, people like — are doing things to help build themselves up without getting destroyed by it. I can do that too. Anne: Well, I appreciate you telling me that. Thank you so much. And now I feel even better about my decision and I appreciate you saying that to me. And I think it was very important and worth mentioning again, when you are handling something like this and taking a stand, especially when it's in regards to your business -- and this could just be me. I'm always like trying to be the professional, always trying to not burn my bridges. Because again, you never know where your relationship will go, how the client will react, maybe something wonderful can happen out of it. So I never choose to burn my bridges. And so I did break ties with the client as professionally and as diplomatically as I could and thank them for the opportunity to work with them and appreciated everything that we had worked on together. And yeah, I think that's an important thing to consider when you are faced with ethical decisions. And again, this doesn't just have to be about scripts, because I know we've spoken about that before. I mean it could be like, well, what if you get a script and you have to voice something that you don't believe in? I'm strong on that one. I'm like, I don't have to voice that. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. But when it came to my business and working with a client that I thought maybe didn't align to the same goals as I did and making that tough decision, I think that the ethics, it's all around. We have to address ethics all around in our business. Not just on what script we voice. And again, BOSSes out there, I entirely encourage people that if you don't feel comfortable voicing a script, you can take that stand and turn that down. Lau: Or even you are not comfortable working with someone. Like you don't have to justify it. It's okay. You don't have to tell everyone. But you can certainly internalize and say, why am I feeling uncomfortable? I just had this recently with a new partnership with an agent out in LA who was interviewing one of our people and said, you know, I have to be honest with you, I wasn't comfortable with him. This was on Zoom; this wasn't — I wasn't comfortable. I just didn't, I didn't like his personality. He made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't feel like I would be able to do dealings with him, and I didn't offer him a contract. And I said, well good for you. I didn't take any offense to that at all. I said if I were in your position, I probably would do the same. Because you wanna be able to have that free flow of ideas and conversation in that somewhat level of trust that you're on the same page, you're tracking kind of thing. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. That you align. Lau: You're tracking. I'm gonna make a prediction for everyone in the audience. Here's my prediction. My prediction is this client, Anne, is gonna come back to you for future things, whatever that is. Whether it's a recording job or whether it's uh, something else. And you're gonna have another decision to make. And that is, do I want to work with them? Because somehow how we feel like, oh, the coffin shut, the nails are in. And that's often not the case because guess what? The time goes by. They realize who their friends are, they realize who they can trust. They realize and they say, you know, that wasn't a comfortable thing that happened, but a year has gone by. Two years have gone by. I miss her. Where is she? Let me got in contact with her again. Don't be surprised if it's not the end of the relationship. Anne: Yeah. Very interesting. Hmm. Wow. Well, it certainly was something that threw me for a loop this past week, and I'm glad I'm out the other side. But I did wanna share my experiences 'cause I thought maybe if I can help anybody — and it's funny because I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to showcase my business as being together. And every time, Lau, you and I get together on this show, I'm always going, oh my God, Lau. I've sabotaged myself. I'm feeling insecure, but I'm sharing because I'm hoping it will help people that they're not alone. This happens even if you've been in the industry for a long time, and it looks to everybody like -- I mean I like to think that I have it together, but ultimately the experiences that I go through have helped me to build my character, build my business stronger and hopefully continue to do that. I think the last thing I want, because I put so much of myself into it, is for my business to not survive something like a client relationship that I have decided not to pursue any further. Lau: I also think too, unless you run the kind of business where you're really relying on one or two or three clients to keep you alive -- I think you're so diversified and you working with so many people, I don't think that's actually possible when you have so many irons in the fire. But I think it's that, again, it's that sort of blown out of proportion perception, that six months down the line or a year when we are talking, you'll be like, how did I take that so hard? Or why was that so important to me? Anne: Why was that so hard for me? Yeah. Lau: Why did I go through that? I did the right thing. But why did I, like we, we have a Yiddish word called grizsha. Grizsha. It means to sit for a week and just worry and up, grizsha and upset. Make friction for yourself because you're going through the process of it. It's like grief. It's a loss. You're going through a loss. Anne: Yeah, that's exactly right. That it was a loss. And I always think, well, the reason why I went into business for myself is so that I didn't have to go through the stresses that I went through when I was working for people. Right? When I was working in the corporate world. And I was like, I'm not gonna be beaten by the man. And literally I'm like, this is what I love about working for myself is that I get to choose. Right? I get to choose who I work with. I get to choose the projects. And again, I think that is such a wonderful blessing, and it's such a wonderful thing to be able to build a business for yourself. 'Cause you do have the options to make all these choices. And I think that if you do end up going through an ethical dilemma, I think it's good for the soul, even though it wasn't pleasant going through it. And I second guessed myself and stressed out, and -- but I do think that it is one of the reasons that I think being employed or self-employed and having your own business is such an advantage. I mean, we have those choices in front of us to decide upon who we work with. And again, I don't think you get to that point in your business until you're confident and you have -- for me, it always comes back to, and this is a sad thing to say, but it's a reality is, if you have the financial stability in your business to be able to really make those decisions. And I am grateful, and I'm also proud of the fact that I've built my business to the point where I'm okay, I can say no to a client. And I think any BOSS out there that has been able to do that, wow. I mean how wonderful is that? It's just an amazing thing and you should all be so proud that you are able to make those decisions and able to decide whether or not you want to work with a client or not. That's a luxury. Lau: It's a huge luxury. And you have to have that awareness of not being such a people pleaser, such a yes person that you're doing that at the demise of you, your business, your model, your time, whatever. Like that's an ethical dilemma for a lot of people. I went through it for many years 'cause I'm a natural-born people pleaser. Anne: Yeah, me too. Lau: I was brought up that way actually. And I love having that quality still. A lot of people call me Mama Lau, 'causeit has like sort of caring -- Anne: Oh yeah. That's great. Lau: — essence to it. But at the same token, you have to be very careful because there are things you must say no to. There are things you must decline, you must whatever. And those are the hard moments, whether they're ethically driven or financially driven or whatever, that you just know in your heart, I really shouldn't be doing this. Or I really don't wanna do this or what — and you're still saying yes, that's your own ethical dilemma. That's your own saying, what is my value system? What are my principles? What do I stand for? And sometimes there's nothing wrong on the other side. It's just you shouldn't be doing it for whatever reason. You know what I mean? So I think you're awakening us all to really having a good hard heart to heart talk with ourselves and saying, yeah, what do we believe in? What do we wanna be doing? What do we wanna spend our time with? When is it okay to say no? And just set that up. Just be okay with that. Don't kill yourself because you're saying no for whatever reason. Anne: Yeah. Good talk. Thank you, Lau. Lau: Amazing. Anne: Mama Lau. Lau: Amazing. Anne: I love Mama Lau. (both laugh) That's pretty awesome. Oh man, great discussion. Thank you so much as always. Words of wisdom, golden nuggets from Mama Lau (laughs). BOSSes out there, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ever wanted to know what it takes to create a TV pilot? In this special episode, Anne is joined by Scott & Miranda Parkin to discuss Comet Casino. Comet Casino is a story centered around found family. It talks about those relationships & friendships that grow so near and dear that they feel like family. Scott & Miranda voice two of the characters, but were heavily involved in the creation of the show. From planning out the story to animating, Miranda was in charge and excited about this mid-century modern tale. After two year, the pilot episode is ready & shipped out to all the right people. So what's next for the duo? There may be more planning, creating, and meeting taking in their future…but you have to listen up to hear the whole story. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and pumped to have the Comet Casino team here with us, special guests Scott and Miranda Parkin. You guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yay! Scott: Thank you so much for having me. You were an early supporter of this. (inaudible) merch on your show, you donated money, and now we're in the pitch phase. So we really owe a great debt of gratitude to the VO BOSS. Miranda: Yeah, seriously. Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's not hard to support and love what you guys are doing. So for those BOSSes out there who may not be familiar with the famous Comet Casino team, I thought we would start with a little bit of an introduction of each of you so that the BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with Scott,'cause he's older. (laughs) So Scott, I mean actor, amazing improv instructor, voice actor, I mean everything. Tell us how you got started in the industry and where it's going (laughs) and your life. Miranda: And your social security number. Anne: Yes. Scott: No, that's horrible. That's horrible advice. I'm from Sacramento, California, and I started in radio when I was in college. I interned at KCAP, the home of rock. When I was around 20, 18, 19 in that sort of range, I was able to weasel my way onto the air with a guy named Kevin Anderson. He got fired, but he made a tape of the time we were together, sent it to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had us come out for an audition. They asked me if I'd ever been to Oklahoma. And at the time I said, uh, the furthest east I've been is the Nevada side of Heavenly Valley, dude. And that is literally how we all spoke in Northern California. You were more like this, like, are you gonna put change on your car before you go to Tahoe? Went out there to Oklahoma and did that. And then I got fired again. Came back to Sacramento, got a gig in Dallas, was there for 11 years, got married, got — moved to Los Angeles in, I wanna say '98. Had a kid in 2000, got divorced in 2003, done voiceover and writing for television and acting, and I always say you gotta hit it from every angle possible, so I'll do most of the stuff that they'll pay creative wise. So Miranda's been raised on TV sets and in voiceover lobbies and all that. And she started in the business when she was about five. Miranda: Pretty crazy. Anne: So, yeah. So Miranda, let's talk about that because you did grow up in the business. Yeah. I'm so excited again to actually see you and talk with you. And so tell us how you kind of got started, and was this something that, because you were around it for all the time when you were small, is it something that you loved right away, or did you kind of grow into it? Miranda: Well, I mean, I feel like I loved it first because I was like, oh, I just really love reading. Like I love reading out loud. Like that very much fun. Scott: Nerd! Miranda: Shut up. Anne: That was me too. That was me too. Scott: Yeah. Miranda: I liked reading out loud. So when they were like, "hey, do you wanna read this thing out loud," a little five year old? And I was like, yeah, of course I wanna read that thing out loud. So I did. And then I was like, oh, oh, they like it when I do that. That's cool. I like that. You know, I was five, so I didn't really know, but it just made me feel happy, you know? Like I've always loved reading out loud. And then I got paid to talk about SeaWorld, and I'm like, I love animals and I love talking about whales, like of course I, I'm gonna do that. Anne: Was this when you were five or a little bit later on? Miranda: A little bit later on because I started when I was five, and then it was kind of went until eight or nine I think. I think nine was when I, I got the -- Scott: When the hammer got dropped. Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I got the job of, uh, Lucy in a direct to DVD Peanuts movie. And my mom was like, no, you can't do that. So I was like, oh, alright. I really like reading out loud. I really like the Peanuts. Scott: But her dad was a voiceover actor, and anything that had something to do with me was -- Anne: Ah. Scott: Yeah. Anne: Okay. So there's the six degrees here I think because you said Lucy, right? You read for the — Miranda: Right. Anne: Okay. So my maiden name is Lucy. Okay? Scott: Excellent. Is that true? Anne: Yes, it's very true. It's very, because people called me Miss Lucy when I was a teacher, and then they would sing, Miss Lucy had a steamboat. The steamboat had a bell. Exactly. Scott: I forgot you were a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. I have I have so many teachers throughout our family. Anne: Well, so that's number one. And number two is that when I was young, when I was about six, when I was in kindergarten, I love to read out loud as well. And here's where my claim to fame, my creative claim to fame is that I wrote books. I wrote books about Nibbles the Rabbit. And as a kindergartner, I read them to the first graders. So that's my claim to fame. I mean, I -- Miranda: Kind of a power move. Anne: I mean, so Miranda, if I could only be half as good of, and I illustrated and wrote, and you know what I mean? Which is, that's incredible. Miranda: That's, that's amazing. Anne: You do everything. And so I just feel like the apple doesn't far fall from the tree there, I think; the writer, artist, voice actor, actor. Scott: I can't draw a stick figure without uh, without help. So. Miranda: That's true. He can draw a palm tree and a lightning bolt. Anne: There you go. Very good. Scott: And I can draw an oak tree too though. Miranda: And an oak tree. Oak tree. Sorry, forgot about that. One of the three. Scott: Yeah. Anne: I got good at drawing a rabbit as a kindergarten. But other than that -- Miranda: Nibbles the rabbit. Anne: — that's kind of where it stopped. Although I always was in awe of people who could draw. And so I want to actually talk about Comet Casino because that's really why I wanted to bring you here so that we can talk about the whole process. Because BOSSes out there, if you're listening, the whole concept of Comet Casino is BOSS from start to as it evolves. Because you have encompassed all areas of the creative arts, all areas of funding, of marketing, of starting something and seeing it grow and seeing it evolve. So I love the evolution of Comet Casino. So before we do that, let me show the BOSSes a little preview of what we have here. So let's do this first. Scott: Can we set it up real quick? Anne: Yeah. Let, we're gonna set it up right now. Scott: This is not a trailer. There's no voiceover or anything like that. This is the first 90 seconds of the pilot, and the shuttle attendant is the lovely great Delisle Griffin. And we love it. And so you get an idea of where our story takes place, who are the principals, and what's going on in the first 90 seconds. The whole thing, the whole pilot presentation is just over 10 minutes. There you go. Miranda: Yeah, there we go. Anne: All right. We're gonna give you guys the first 90 seconds. All right. Here we go. >> Attention passengers. We will be landing shortly on Luparif Omari, please return to your seats. If you've morphed during the flight, please regenerate and buckle up. Okay? And remember, as long as you look like you're gambling, they gotta keep bringing you drinks. Good luck. >> Luparif Omari. Everybody knows it as the loop. Number one adult playground in the galaxy and the armpit of the fucking universe. Everyone is thrilled when they get here and broken, disillusioned when they leave. That's just after a weekend. I spent the first 18 years of my life here. On the loop, after high school, you pretty much have three choices: bartending school, dealer school or alcoholic gambler. I wanted something more. So I went to law school on the nearest planet. After graduation I took a really good job as a defense attorney. It's difficult and none of it comes easy, but okay, it's somewhere else, and that's all that matters. So what am I doing back here? My dad, owner of the formerly luxurious Comet Casino passed away. How? Uh, he just stopped breathing while a guy was choking him to death, which on the loop is considered natural causes. The loop is 100 miles of casinos, clubs, and general debauchery crammed into a thin band of oxygen. Everything else is toxic. My dad used to drop off associates in the desert when it was time for them to die of natural causes. >> Hurry. Hurry, everyone. Anne: Haha, awesome. I love it. And can I tell you that honestly, when I first heard it, I love the beginning, right, with the introduction. But Miranda, when you start telling the story, I teach like storytelling to students for years. And you have such a beautiful, wonderful presentation of storytelling in that, like it is so damn impressive. Miranda: Hey, I used to love reading stories out loud. Now I do it all the time. Anne: If Scott knows me, I don't say that lightly. I love, love the performance. Scott: That's not — this whole thing, this has been two years in the making, and we directed all these legends who are friends of ours and have always supported Miranda. And if Miranda wasn't able to hold their own with these legends, it doesn't work. All of what we've done, it just doesn't work. So. Miranda: That was one thing that I got scared about. Like I know literally like after we like got all these people to do it, and they were like, all right, now it's time to record your part. And I'm like, oh, I have to actually, I have to go up against these — oh my God. Not, not go up against, but like work with, like be in the same cartoon as, and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a dream come true regardless of where this thing goes. Scott: Yes. And frightening as hell. And same for me. 'Cause Miranda actually does video games and animation. I don't do so much of either of those. So after asking these people and then having to, you know, what was really cool was that we recorded our parts at SoundBox LA with Tim Friedlander. So first Miranda and Tim directed me, and then we switched, and Tim and I directed Miranda. So that was really, it was really cool. And he's been so supportive and known Miranda for a very long time. So it was, it was just really cool to do our parts at Tim's with Tim directing. Miranda: Yeah. 'Cause he's such a good friend and such a great dude. And he supported it all the way through. It just seemed like a natural fit. Anne: So let's talk about, how did it all start? Miranda: Ooh, ooh, ooh. I've got this one. Anne: Okay. Scott: Keep it tight and bright. Miranda: So essentially it started as an FBI agent gets teleported into space and works off her debt at a space casino. So that was like our initial idea. And I wanted to do something Scott: That was all Miranda's -- Miranda: Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well the FBI thing is kind of silly, stupid. Let's just go with a mother-daughter story about a girl that actually lives in the casino and went to the casino and like lived at the casino, and her mom was the boss and she had to come back. And then we were just like, okay, let's cut the mom. Because I don't know how to tell a mother daughter story. I know how to tell a father-daughter story. So let's make a father-daughter story about a dysfunctional -- Scott: Well Miranda, you have to be honest, Ed Jager, our head writer and 23 year veteran television writer came in and said, I'm killing the mom. There's no story there. It's a father-daughter story. It's all about the daughter. Going away. Wanting to get the hell outta home, and then having to come back and then finding out that, ah, you know what? I hate this place, but I work here. It works. I have a connection here, and I'm really good at all the jobs I'm doing. It's the Joan Didian. You can't go home but you, maybe you can kind of thing. Does that make sense? Miranda: See the thing is like at the beginning of it, it morphed and switched. But I always wanted to make it a space casino. Always, always, always. Anne: But then, let me backtrack here. So you're telling me the beginnings of the story, but what's the beginnings of the idea, Miranda? Was it something that you said, I wanna create? So not many people in this industry, and I know BOSSes out there, this is the whole enchilada, this is the writing, the artistry, the production, the casting. So did you just one day say, I wanna make a show like (laughs)? Scott: We pitch ideas back and forth and have written a bunch of stuff, but Miranda always said that whenever they go animated shows, they have an episode at a casino. But I forget how you said it, M, I'm sorry. Miranda: So like in a lot of sci-fi media, there's always like a one-off episode with a casino. Like in Cowboy Bebop, there's a one-off episode with a space casino. In Star Wars, they go to a space casino in one of the newest Star Wars movies. In like Rick and Morty, they go to a Dave and Busters type thing called Blips and Shits. And I'm just like, why don't you stay there? There's so much potential. You have beings from all over the galaxy. You know, you have people that go to Vegas for conventions. You've got people that go to Vegas in sororities. You have gangsters and mobsters and bachelor parties Anne: I love it. Scott: Corporate convention. Always bringing different people. And if you put it out in space, 200 years in the future, the hell knows what -- Anne: Right. So many stories. I mean, I think so many stories can evolve from that. So yeah, there's longevity there. Yeah. Scott: The other thing we really liked was the found family because Miranda's been, was at my house from age 16 on solo and moved out two years ago. So big on found family. At my house growing up there was always an extra person. Somebody that just got divorced or some teenager had been kicked out of their house. So we're big on found family. A found family is such a lovely story. You can take in so many different directions, and in Miranda's situation, it's right here, found family. Miranda: But also it's relatable to everyone. Whether you have a good relationship with your parents or not, you always have friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. I know it's cheesy, but everyone can relate to it. Everyone has a friend that you feel like you're a sibling. Anne: So then you had this idea that you wanted to do this. The two of you were bouncing ideas and then you said, yes, this sounds amazing. Let's get a writer. Like what happened after that? Just get a writer involved. Scott: Like I said, we've had multiple ideas, and I think they're very solid ideas, but Miranda is a voracious performer and artist. They like to keep going and going and going. So if we didn't get something with legs on it early, it got set aside and fan art and something else, or voiceover or her life just got in. But this was much more substantial. And it has something that Miranda really likes is retro futurism and 50's -- Miranda: Like mid-century modern atomic age type stuff, Jetsons style. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Scott: They really enjoyed drawing. So it was very inspirational. And then I showed it to my buddy Ed. We had made a little video presentation and it's 1000 degrees different than that, than the thing that we first made. But he goes, this is great. We showed it to Swampy Marsh, the creator of Phineas and Ferb, who's sort of Miranda's mentor and my good friend. And then we all got together with a couple of the writers from Gary Unmarried, that show my buddy Ed wrote about my life that was on CBS, and other writers that I'd worked with on their pilots. And we all got a room and sort of hammered out a thing. And then the found family thing, or how each of the casino employees used to work at the casino as a crooner or a fighter or something like that. And now the old man me has hired him to work on the, on the thing because they're no longer viable as performers. So we had that, and then Ed just took it off and built this great daughter goes away and comes back to save the found family sort of thing. Miranda: And it was so well done and well-written. And we pitched on jokes, and I would be like, oh, this character probably wouldn't say that, or this and that. But most of it was Ed really. He just brought this huge heart to it. Scott: Ed started on Roseanne and worked on Darma and Greg and so many great shows. And I was a joke guy, so you know, we were able to make the jokes crackle, and then you just crank it, crank it down, crank it down until it's tight. And then we hired Swampy Marsh and Bernie Patterson at Surfer Jack to do the staging animatics. So each time they go through, it's single line, really rudimentary, but it gives you a good idea of where everyone's going and what it will look like. I think they did four passes there. They hired Miranda to work on small projects. So Miranda got to work on her own pilot there. And then I think after we had our thank you party last summer at Tim's, Miranda said, I want it all to be -- I have so many ideas. I want more characters, I want some different backgrounds. This would be funnier if a chop from above. And so Miranda said, I wanna do all of this. So she redid everything. And so every frame you see in the thing is her character's shirt background, a couple backgrounds. We hired her roommate Lauren to do, really wonderful stuff. But almost all of it is Miranda's vision. So there you go. And then laid in all the sound. Tim West at Rebel Alliances donated hours and hours and hours of time. So the sound design is really good. Adam Gutman, Miranda, you can talk about. Miranda: Yeah. He's like a, he's a Disney composer. He does like all the music for these Star Wars land rides, and Amphibia, and he's worked on Greatest Showman and all these things. And I did a lot of work with him during the lockdown, and he had this like musical project, and I was able to do some animatics for him. And then after that, you know, we kept in contact and then he was like, if you don't let me do the music for Comet Casino, I will be very sad if you don't let me just do it. You know. And I was like -- Scott: Of course, of course. Miranda: He had all these like great kind of almost hotel lobby tracks from like a Star Wars thing that he worked on. And he's just like, I can tweak this and do this. I'm like, that is so cool. It was crazy. Anne: So a few things that I wanna point out to the BOSSes out there, because again, I think a lot of people that listen to the VO BOSS podcast they're thinking very much in just voiceover. And again, the scope of this project is so amazing, and I'm hearing a couple of things that just keep coming back to me. Number one is having a great network, right? And having a wonderful team to help put this together. And so I think that networking is such an important thing to have a successful -- Scott: Without, without it, this wouldn't exist. Anne: Yeah. Scott: I called in and asked every favor I had to get us at this point. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Scott: Listen, I don't constantly work for free, but I work with friends and things I like mm-hmm and everyone liked all these people that are in this, Maurice Lamar, Billy West, Tara Strong, Luray, Newman, Mindy Sterling — all of them have known Miranda since about three years old because I was asked to be divorced when Miranda was three. So I had her with me, and they all sort of watched her grow up and watched her. So when I said, hey you guys, this is what we're doing, would you be willing? And they all said the same, some version of yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tara Strong's like, just tell me where to talk. They didn't owe me anything, but I, we asked favors. Miranda: And one thing that I was so happy about is they've always been, 'cause we're, you know, a lot of us are at the same agency. So like from being a kid, like not not a kid, but like, you know, in my 20s, early, early teenage years, they were always like, if you make something, if you make something, you know, put me in it. Please. So, you know, and then we finally followed through with an idea, and now it was like, I can do that. I can ask these people and they'll say yes. And that's just a such a great feeling to have, to have such a great support network of all these incredible talented people. I'm really honored. Scott: And Miranda designed each of the characters for each of those actors. Aunt Maisie was designed for Tara Strong. Gary Anthony Williams is Hendrix. So that's kind of a cool thing too. But you definitely have to be willing to work with -- I mean I've worked on so many pilots that got shot and didn't get to air. I don't get any money from that. I just get the experience providing and supporting. So when I have something, I call those guys and they're like, yeah, let's get together and write this. Anne: So then yet another thing that I wanna talk about that I think is so important in the development of this is you're still pursuing this, you're still getting funding for this. And so -- Scott: We've just started this phase. Anne: Right. Scott: We, it's taken two years to get up to that. Anne: Yeah. And I think that there's something to be said for the level of commitment obviously, that you have to have for this. I mean in my brain, there's no way that it can't not be successful for you guys. I mean that's the way I feel. I don't know. Miranda: I honestly think it's successful already. I am just, I am happy to be involved with these incredible people. I'm happy to have this part of my portfolio, and I'm ready to get this, this art in front of people who work in amazing studios. Like all these studio people are going to be seeing my art. So that was like the goal from early on was to get my art in front of studios, and whether it gets made or not, it's just a step in the right direction regardless. Anne: I love that. Scott: The beginning premise was to get experience at storyboarding character design and backgrounds. So when we hired Surfer Jack, the idea was that Miranda would sit on Bernie's shoulder and watch him staging storyboard. But then Swampy screwed that up by hiring Miranda before they even started on the pilot to be head of small projects there. So the idea was to get all of her stuff in front of as many people as possible. And because of Ed -- his theatrical representation is APA — they saw that 90-second trailer and called us in for a strategy meeting. So now we're actually represented by APA. Anne: Love it. That's huge. Scott: They're not only showbiz adjacent, but they represent people like 50 Cent, Mark Ruffalo, you know, that kinda people. So now, next week the pilot goes out to every animation studio and every streaming service, full support of the head of animation at APA. And they'll bug them to watch it and then hopefully take a meeting. So we already won because all of that stuff is in front of them. And Miranda -- by the way, she's like, in my early twenties — these are your early 20's; you're 28 (?) until next week, you know. Anne: That's phenomenal. Miranda, I love that you said that it's already a success because it truly is in my eyes, and that's why I feel like it can't be anything but a success already. I've seen it evolve, I've seen it progress, and to me I'm in awe. I think it's amazing. I love the evolution, I love the whole creative process. And I think that it would help BOSSes to maybe wrap their heads around the whole production process of a creative project because I think it will help us to become better actors, become better business people, understanding the networking that you guys are going through and the process to get this produced and and get this out and see if — it's like a big huge audition. Right? Scott: It is. The other thing is, I told you I don't book animation. So what we did was build a pilot and write ourselves into the pilot. So if I book animation, it'd likely be something that we wrote then Miranda drew. So I think that's a really important thing for anybody getting into it. Don't wait to be asked to the dance. Get out there and start dancing. Miranda: I also think like the thing about networking that you said like Swampy, a friend of ours, you never know who you are going to meet or who's gonna hire you or who's gonna be your friend and let you work on their project or whatever. 'Cause like, you know, I hired my roommate to work on some of the backgrounds for Comet. And the networking is so important in this industry, especially with animation, the way that it is right now. 'Cause animation is very weird and not an incredible industry to get into right now. 'Cause everything is very up in the air. Scott: What do you mean, not a great industry? Do you mean it's uncertain? Miranda: Yeah, it's very uncertain and there's lots of things. Scott: Voiceover and acting -- Miranda: No, no, but like animation in particular, a lot of animated projects are getting canned. Like they took so much off of HBO Max and Netflix. Like all these animated projects on Netflix. Scott: That happens in every facet of the entertainment -- Miranda: Right. That's true. Anne: Ebb and flow. Scott: It's building your house on mud and hoping for the best. Miranda: Yeah. Anne: Yeah. Miranda: But you know, like you just never know who is gonna hire you. You never know who's gonna be part of your story next. So. Scott: It's also a good reason to be nice to everybody. Miranda: Exactly. It costs some money. Scott: 'Cause you never know. And that's why I always say, hey people, I know we have, we're represented by an agency, but please if I sent you the pilot and said, hey, send it to creators that you know, it's always great when something comes to the same point from different connections. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Scott: Oh, this is the pilot. Oh this is the guy that Apple, the Apple guy sent me this. So I believe you gotta get as many lines in the water as you can. Anne: Absolutely. And that networking completely helps that. And I think that it's just something that's so important for us to know as we progress in this industry because this industry's uncertain, voice acting. Oh, oh my gosh. You know? Scott: Also the other thing is Miranda's not stopping. She's doing Comet art for the pitch deck. Should we get the meeting, I feel confident people are gonna say, hey come in. We like it. We'd like to chat, doing that. But she's also prepping a bunch of stuff to submit for Smiling Friends. She just had a meeting with the storyboard director from Mitchells and the Machines. So you know, you can't just go, well, we've got our pilot. Let's just sit back and let the money roll in. Miranda: Not over until it's over. Anne: That's not over. Miranda: It doesn't start till it starts. Scott: Ah, I like that one. Anne: Yeah. Now lemme ask you, Comet Casino, what's next? What's the next step? Scott: Next week. Well, Miranda's doing art for the pitch deck. Hopefully it goes out to all the stupid buddies, the the titmouses, the -- Miranda: Bento boxes, the tornates, the 20th Century Fox. Scott: It's gonna go out to every relevant animation company and every streamer, Amazon, Apple, all of those. And then we clear our schedule because we'll be just meeting so many people and having a bidding war on the Comet scene. Anne: There you go. Miranda: One would hope. One would hope. Scott: We still, did you get one of these, Anne? Anne: I did not get a bag. Scott: We wanna send you a bag as a gift from the Comet Casino. Anne: Oh, I love it. Scott: And we'll put one of the lucky chips in there too. Anne: Oh, I love that. Scott: I always keep 'em in my pocket when I audition and I booked three commercials with one ofthese in my pocket. Anne: Well, thank you. So let me ask you guys, before we go, first of all, how can somebody buy Comic Casino merch? Where do they go? Miranda: They go to the Comet Casino gift shop, and it's the first thing that comes up on Google. I'll also send you the link so you can put it in the description of whatever podcast. Anne: The Comet Casino gift shop. And guys, I have a few things. I have a few things from the Comet Casino, but I do not have a bag, so I would love that. Scott: We'll send you the retro airline bag. Anne: Thank you. Scott: Cool thing where you put the cardboard on the bottom, and they put hard glasses in the bottom. Anne: I love it. Scott: And then we still have a bunch of shirts. We don't have a lot of stuff. We got hit pretty hard. Oh, we do have some of these handmade pendants that are really, really cool. We only have a -- I think there's only five of those left. They're really, really, really stunning. Anne: That's very cool. Scott: Our friend Lori Magna is this artisan in Boston, and she made, she does all the little -- I mean -- Anne: Oh, I love it. Miranda: Aren't they so cool? Anne: I love it. So Comet Casino gift shop. Miranda: Yes, indeed. Anne: And how can someone follow you, Miranda? Miranda: Oh, well my Instagram is Parkinart, Parkinart. No spaces, no caps, no nothing. No, no underscores or dots or dits or numbers. Anne: Perfect. Scott: You can see me on a Tide commercial Anne: Ah yes. Miranda: And his Instagram. His Instagram -- Scott: Hang on, I forgot to say we just got these, the premade -- Miranda: The booklets. Scott: Big comic books with all the concept art. They're 22 pages, and we just got these. There was a misprint. We got to help with the pitch and they did a misprint -- Anne: Will you be signing? Scott: We're signing. Miranda will sign. I'll sign it. It doesn't really matter if I sign it, but Miranda's gonna sign it, and then if you get other cast members to sign it, you got something there. Anne: Very nice. Scott: That'll be up on here very quickly as well. Anne: Very nice. Scott: Anne, thank you so much. So sweet of you to have us on. Anne: Thank you, guys. It was amazing. So much fun. And I'm looking forward to interviewing you again after it gets picked up and you guys -- Scott: Absolutely. And remember, we're voice first, and we have a very long memory and we remember everybody that was so supportive and helpful. And believe me, we'll be working hard. We don't know who's gonna buy it or what the situation will be. They may buy it outright, tell us to go away, you know what I mean? So we have no idea what that looks like. But if we have any say in it, we're gonna bring people to audition. Everybody gets up to bat, we're gonna write your names as a character, spread the wealth. Anne: Love it. And your cat wants to say hello. I love it. You know, I have three cats, so I'm all about that. Well fantastic, guys. Thank you so much again. It was amazing. So much fun. Love, love, love what you're doing. Miranda: Thank you so much for having us on. Anne: Absolutely. Scott: You've been so supportive, Anne. You jumped on the bandwagon and gave away merch very early on. This was an expensive proposal, right? Hiring an animation company to do four passes, and then I was sending random money to not take any other work while they worked on this thing. So it's really, really helpful to have such support. The main thing is, it's just really fun to see the cool logo and all the great art on it. It's very nice. Anne: Absolutely. All right, well BOSSes, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Besides giving to Comet Casino, you can go to 100Voiceswhocare.org to find out more and commit. And also big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye! Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Great sound is an important factor in booking voice over work. In this episode, Anne is joined by audio engineer & musician Gillian Pelkonen to discuss the basics of audio for voice. Sound engineers listen for clean, crisp vocal sound. This is the kind of sound that helps you book more jobs, and it's the kind of sound that makes you stand out from the crowd. In order to get great voice over work, it's important that you have great sound. But what exactly is "great sound"? Is it the same as "high-quality audio"? The best way to solve audio issues is to address them before recording. Incorrect recording levels, too much room tone & improper mic technique are common audio issues. Feeling lost & overwhelmed with your sound? Anne & Gillian tell you all you need to know... Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring a very special guest to the show today, Gillian Pelkonen. Gillian is an audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer living and working in upstate New York, which is where I am from. Woohoo. Gillian: Woo. Anne: Uh, Gillian received her masters in audio arts from Syracuse University and has been working in audio engineering ever since. Gillian, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to talk to you. Gillian: Anne, thank you so much for having me. It is so exciting to be on the show. Obviously I've listened to it a lot in the past few years, so -- Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you Gillian: -- definitely trippy to be on this side of it. But yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat about audio. Anne: Yeah, so I'm excited number one because you are from like practically my hometown. My family's still up there and I also love female engineers because that's kind of where I started as well. When I graduated from college, I went to school for engineering, not audio engineering, but engineering. And so I have uh, a soft spot in my heart for female engineers. So tell the BOSSes how you got started and what got you interested in audio engineering. Gillian: Well, we are few and far between, unfortunately. I am a musician as well. I don't really say that, it's a weird word for me to say, but I've been playing guitar and singing and writing songs for as long as I could talk. It's been my outlet for everything. And I was working on a lot of my music in college and at recording studios on campus, and I couldn't find women to work with. I did have one female audio engineer that I worked with and that was the best experience I had, and I found her a bit later in the experience. But up until then I just didn't understand. And obviously gender is a construct. It's not really about that. But I found that I worked really well with women and people who were good listeners and who felt like they were as passionate about what I was trying to create as I was. And eventually I found that nobody was, so I just wanted to go learn it myself and just know how to do it and make music, and that's what got me into audio and now kind of in the voiceover AI sphere 'cause they're super connected. Anne: Fantastic. So now you also sing as well? Gillian: Yes. Yeah. Anne: Oh wow. You are multifaceted. I love it. So let's talk a little bit about audio because for people just entering into the industry, it is I think one of the most scariest things because a lot of people are not necessarily technically adept at creating or editing audio. And so it really becomes a thing to enter in the voiceover industry. It's like, like not only do they have to learn how to perform and be authentic and real, and now all of a sudden they've gotta figure out, well, how am I going to prepare this audio to send to my client? And that just becomes a whole different thing, especially with technology. And I've always said that to be successful in this industry, not only is it great to have that creative artistic talent in your performance, but you do have to be adept at technology because you're going to have to be able to handle that audio, edit that audio, deliver that audio to your client. And if that is not something that you're comfortable with, you need to actually get comfortable with it. So what would you say is the most important thing for people starting out in terms of their audio? Gillian: That is a big question. Anne: Yeah, I know, with probably an hour's worth of answers, I'm sure. Gillian: Many hours worth of answers. I think for people starting out, the best thing you can do is, I hate to say work with a professional, but that might be a starting point just to understand what you might need because the hard part is not the audio. Everyone makes it like that's the daunting task because it's not what you're comfortable with, but I know that the acting is really difficult and the mic is just the thing that picks that up. And so if you're gonna go to a coach to work with your acting and develop that, why would you not go to an audio professional to get the right mic for you to get the right setup and get started with that? Because with audio, obviously the editing and that's a learning curve and process, which you will get comfortable with, the more you work on it, same way you get better at auditioning. But getting started with a professional will stop all those stumbles that you might find along the way with just trying to figure it out yourself. Because it's not complicated. But there's definitely a lot of ways to get lost on the path if you're not with the proper information. Anne: Yeah. And I think too, the thing for me when I started it was all about the room, the studio. And I think you don't know what you don't know. And that's why I love that you said, you know, why wouldn't you work with a professional? Because we go to coaches for performance? Why wouldn't you go to an audio professional to get help with your studio? And I think that's fantastic advice. And it's something that I ended up doing because for me it was, oh my gosh, I have to say it was so frustrating. I remember at one point I didn't have it, and I sent some audio to a client, and they're like, Anne, it sounds like you're talking into a tube. And I was mortified, and I was like, oh my gosh, maybe I shouldn't be in this industry. And I was so frustrated, I remember like physically crying, and I don't like to admit that, but I was so frustrated. And at the time it was hard to know because I started so long ago, the internet wasn't quite a thing where we were in community groups yet. And so I didn't even know how to reach out or who to reach out to. So I think it's wonderful now that there are lots of people that we can reach out to. And I, for one, when I have a new student, I always recommend that they talk to an audio engineer to get their environment set first, and then it becomes like, oh my, my gosh. Well, what mic? And I think you're probably gonna tell us that the environment might be a little more important than that. So let's talk about what's important in a good environment for us to record in? Gillian: Well, there's so many things to say, and just going back one second, there is no shame in crying over figuring out audio issues. Anne: Thank you. I feel better. Gillian: I have to say that I have at some point because they're very frustrating. It's so easy to get your wires crossed, and I'm sure we'll have longer conversations about this, but it's definitely very frustrating 'cause your voice is coming out of your mouth. Like it's like I hear it, I hear it. Why is it not in my computer? So the frustration is real, I understand that. And the reason that I do say higher professionals is because so much of your valuable time will be wasted troubleshooting these things that someone like me or any of the other pros doing this will be able to diagnose and fix in a couple seconds. Anne: Yeah. You have the ear. You have the ear for it, which I think most people starting out in voiceover, if you don't even know the industry, how can you expect to have an ear for it? Gillian: Exactly. And it's funny, when I was in school, I felt that there was not a lot of sound representation. I was initially in school for TV and film. And one of the first sound classes I took, the professor on the syllabus said, sound is 50% of a picture and nobody cares about it. Like picture being a movie, and for voiceover it's a hundred percent. So it's even more essential to have it, you know, that's your introduction to a client. And like you were saying, if your audio comes in not sounding right, you don't sound as professional. Doesn't matter how your read is. So that's something. Anne: And especially since the pandemic, right? Because we can't go to professional studios anymore. So it's more important than ever that our home studios are set up properly. And even just like, again, starting out, you don't really know. And I will say that there's a ton of information on the internet. But again, there's a ton of information on the internet. So how do newcomers to the industry discern what's the good information and what's not good information? Because I certainly didn't go to school for audio engineering and I know that that's an entire field, obviously. So again, so for our environment then, what's important, what's important for us to set that up? Gillian: Well, I think the most important thing is, within a voice, something that I listen for is crisp, clean, natural sound. I want it to sound like we're sitting together talking, but maybe a little bit better, because you know, with all the equipment you have the ability to boost some frequencies in your voice. We're basically, with audio, we're trying to mimic what our ear hears, but there's this whole other, I'm not going to get into it, but there's something called psychoacoustics, which is how panning works and stereo. And it's basically using the computer and things we can do with audio and stereo field to trick your ear into hearing things that are not exactly as they are. So we're using plugins, EQ, all of those things to make you sound your best. But some issues that I see happen a lot is, you know, incorrect recording levels, too much room tone, too much stuff going on in your environment, improper mic placement, just not speaking into the right part of the mic or having it placed the wrong way. And then there's just textural issues of needing plug-ins or other things to manipulate your voice to get it sounding its best. Anne: Got it. So in terms of recording levels, right, I'm still thinking about the room and, and you said things are happening -- is there such a thing -- some students have mentioned this to me -- as being soundproof so that, oh gosh, I live next to an airport or the landscapers out there -- is there a way that you can create a studio that is soundproof that you won't hear those things? Gillian: Yes. I think that it's going to be wildly out of a regular person's budget because like when you go into a recording studio, the way that they do that is they have floating floors, and basically you build a room inside of a room, and there's a bunch of ways to do it. But when you're in an isolation booth, you know there's the building and then there's the studio which is within it. So there's gonna be acoustic paneling and other things in there that help with the reflections of the sound. But realistically you'd need to build something. But that's not the only way to get really good isolated sound. You can do DIY things. I mean people go into closets to record for a reason. They're really good. I mean, I don't know if it's sustainable, you know; you need a booth if you're gonna be doing it full-time or something. But that tiny confined space that stops any reflections of sound, which would make echoes in the background, the padding of clothing that would kind of dampen everything, and that just makes it really clear for the mic to be picking up your voice. Anne: Got it. So then if you've got a decent environment, right, that doesn't have a lot of hard surfaces and you've got the absorption so that you're not getting echo or reflection back, what then is the next thing that we wanna look at in terms of getting great sound from our studios? Gillian: Well, I think a really important thing is recording level. I think making sure that you're coming in at the right volume, and it's kind of like, you know, Goldilocks situation. You don't wanna be too loud, you don't wanna be too quiet, you wanna kind of be just right. And a way that I gauge this, I don't really like giving numbers as like, if you are at this number, you're perfect. You're at the, you know, that's really hard. I want everyone to learn to trust your ears. But there are a few ways to measure it. So within your DAW, there's usually gonna be like a colorful meter that's going. And when you're checking that out, I like to say to be three quarters of the way up. So you don't wanna be lower than half, you don't wanna be towards the top. And I know I work primarily in Pro Tools. I know most people don't and most voice actors shouldn't. There's no need. But it's really green at the three quarters away mark, and then it starts to go orange and red and you never wanna be in the red. That audio will become unusable. But that's how I like to look at it. And I think it's simple enough for someone to look at within their DAW and see. Anne: Now you mentioned something that, and I don't wanna get too off track 'cause I got a couple other questions I'd love for you to answer, but you mentioned that Pro Tools wasn't necessarily something that a voice actor needed. And I remember, oh gosh, back in the day, Pro Tools Lite used to come with the audio interface and so I started using Pro Tools Lite, and it was a bear. to learn. And I think that was also another thing that scared me in terms of how am I gonna be able to succeed in this industry if I cannot figure out how to use this audio editor? So if I can just kind of divert just for a minute, tell us what kind of an audio editor or your DAW, right, it's also known as a DAW, is good for today's voice talent when they first start out? Gillian: Yeah. So DAW is, I just throw the terms around 'cause sometimes I forget like this is my language, but it's a digital audio workstation. So that's really anything you're gonna be working in. I use Pro Tools because it's a great multi-track recorder. A lot of times when I'm working in music, we usually sit around 50 to 100 tracks going on. Maybe not at at one time eventually, but you know when you're doing voiceover you have one, it's a mono recording for the most part. So I know a lot of people use Twisted Wave. I've used Twisted Wave. I think that it's great. Anne: I love Twisted Wave. Gillan: I know people use Audition. Audition is great. I think that really, especially starting out, you don't need anything more than Twisted Wave. I think it's affordable, I think it's great. I spend most of my time in Pro Tools. I dabble in Logic and Audition and even Audition is a little bit complicated. I can imagine being overwhelmed by it for the functionality. I don't know if it's necessary really, but I don't wanna knock it. I know people love it. Anne: Shh. Don't tell anybody, but I totally agree with you. And the reason why is because I think I started with Pro Tools Lite and I was like, oh my God, this is too much. I don't think I need it. And I think to reiterate what you're saying, we are voice actors. Unless we're producers or audio engineers, we don't need multi-tracks. I mean unless I'm putting sound effects or music under, I don't need that capacity. Gillian: Which you can do in Twisted Wave. Anne: And Twisted Wave for me is so simple in terms of, it's like Audacity on crack, I always say that , because Audacity is free. You get what you pay for and it's wonderful and I think a lot of people do that. But I think if you have a Mac, Twisted Wave is the way to go. What about a PC though for your DAW? What do you think? I mean 'causeTwisted Wave doesn't run natively on PC. They have an online version if I remember correctly. Or they're coming out with, I think. Gillian: They do have an online version and from what I know they are working on it for PC. I have not had a PC since the early 2000s, my first computer. So really, I don't know, I think maybe trying the web browser version for that would work. And you know, I'd have to get a better answer for that 'cause honestly I live in the Mac universe. That's where I work. Anne: Well, and if we wanted to get into arguments with people that listen to this about which is better Mac or PC for audio editing, I will say my own personal story is when I started outta college, I worked on systems that were Unix based. And so I was a Unix girl, and then Windows kind of came up the ranks. And when I was working in education we started using Windows servers, and so I became a PC girl. And then ultimately when I started to go into voiceover part-time and then full-time of course, I bought a really kicked up version of a Dell laptop with the most memory and everything that I thought was gonna be my computer for audio. And my audio didn't work; it wasn't compatible. And I was so upset 'cause I spent a lot of money upgrading the RAM and upgrading the space and doing everything to have a really great computer. And it didn't work. And so for many years people said Mac, it just works for audio and creative endeavors. And I just said, well let me try it and I'll tell you what, I haven't looked back. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. BOSSes out there, I'm not saying that one's better than the other. However, my personal experience is that the Mac just, things just work audio wise. You hook up any particular microphone or audio interface, boom. It recognizes it. I've not had issues. Gillian: Yeah. I mean, I lived my entire life in the Mac ecosystem. Like that's how I organize my life. Obviously I've had friends and people I know -- my boyfriend has a PC, I don't know how to work it. . I mean I'm learning, but it's just, yeah. Apples and oranges, literally it is. But I think that there's a way to do it if you have a pc, don't go out and buy a Mac because we said we like them. There's a way to to work around it. But realistically, even going back to the Audition versus Twisted Wave, it's all about the interface. And really as a voice actor, from my understanding and as I work as an engineer, speed is so important. And so if you're gonna simplify your DAW for you to be able to work in it faster, like it's basically up to you where you're the most comfortable. So that's really the moral of the story. Anne: That's a great point. It's a great point because, guys, unless you're outsourcing people to do your audio editing, you do spend a considerable amount of time, once you've recorded something, editing that. For me, I think I started off it was like a 1:5 ratio where if I did an hours worth of recording, it would take me five hours to edit it, and then as you get better -- you know, I'm about at a one to three ratio. I can't get any quicker than that. But if you're going to be spending a, a majority of your time editing, and again, like I said, unless you're outsourcing, I mean you might as well be comfortable and really consider the speed of which you can work and things that can help you to be more efficient. Let's talk a little bit about -- I see in the forums there's always, what's your noise floor? And so what's the importance of having a low noise floor? Gillian: So noise floor is basically the sound that your gear makes because if you think about it, voice goes into a microphone, goes through an XLR cable or maybe directly into the computer, through the interface, back into the computer. That process makes a little bit of electronic noise. Anne: And so I didn't know that actually. Gillian: The term noise floor describes that noise. And usually they're related to room tone because, the sound around you, those are just things that end up needing to be taken out and they're kind of like white noisy or they're not, you know, the sound of a door slamming, but they are noise that end up on your audio file. So it's really important to make sure that your gain is set properly on your interface because if my gain is really quiet and I do a recording, and I need it to be loud enough to listen to, then you're gonna be stuck boosting your clip gain. And then the noise floor, everything, like all the sound that your electronics make, are gonna be super loud and proportion to the recorded sound. So that's where it all gets related. Same with room tone. Like if there's too much going on in your room, and it's picking that up more than your voice, then there's gonna be a lot more of it to take out, if that makes sense. Anne: And I can always tell like a beginner, because they don't have their levels set. And so what'll happen is they'll set their gain like really low and then they can play their recording and they won't hear any noise. But yet when you, let's say, normalize it or you bring the the levels up, then all of a sudden it's like got some sort of shh sound and, and then that's when people are like, well no, I didn't normalize it because it makes this noise. And I'm like, well that's the stuff that you have to get rid of. So how do you get rid of the noise? I mean, what's the effective way of getting rid of that? Gillian: Well, there's two ways to get rid of noise. There's before, you know, fixing the problems before you hit record, which is the best way to do it. And then there's post-production stuff that you can do later. And I've had people come to me with audio issues, and sometimes they are unfixable. We are not magicians. There are some things that are just, if you record so quiet and your noise floor is so loud, there's no way to take that off and have your voice not sound distorted or wrong. So the best way is isolate yourself, make sure you're in a good environment, make sure you sound okay in your booth, your DIY booth, and make sure that your gain is set properly so you're not set up for failure later. And then in post-production, there are plug-ins that you can use to kind of remove those frequencies. So if you're getting rid of room tone, something that I use is Spectral DeNoise by Izotope RX. I think I have 8 or 9, I'm not sure what number they're up to, but really the one that I have is great. And that just you take a little, it takes like a little audio picture of the room tone and then goes throughout the audio file and just removes that frequency and tone, which is great. That's incredible. The only thing you need to have with that is a little bit of room tone noise with no speaking before or after the clips so that you know, the generator can grab it. But that's my favorite thing to use. And it works really well for slight room tone or little wind in the background if you're outside, whatever it might be. But that's like the pro plugin. Anne: So then there's the DAW, right? And that is really based on what you're comfortable with. And depending on your platform, you can have various DAWs. We've already established that we like Twisted Wave. You use Pro Tools because of course you're an audio engineer and, and then that makes sense. You need to have that functionality. Now we've added into the mix something called Izotope to help remove certain noises. And so is that typically what most voice actors will have to buy, Izotope? Will it work within their DAW or is that when it becomes complicated? Gillian: It's a whole thing. We could do a whole episode about plug-ins and all of that. But for the simple answer is that Izotope, they have a bunch of plug-ins, all voice related. The two that I use the most -- I have the whole suite because, you know, I work with voices all the time, and realistically you can meet with an audio engineer like me and I would say, hey, you probably need this and you need this. You don't need to buy all of them. But I use spectral de-noise the most that gets rid of the noise. And then there's also mouth de-click, which gets rid of all the little clicky -- those noises. I use that often, but I use that for music, for everything for my singing voice. I hate hearing those, um, myself. So those are the two that I use. But you can get any variation. I haven't used them within Twisted Wave just because I haven't, but I think that you can, because -- Anne: I have. Gillian: Oh. Yes, you can integrate them into DAWs. I've used them in Pro Tools, I've used them in Logic, I've used them in Audition, and Izotope as well has its own little audio editor. So you can import a file, render it with the effect, and then import it into your DAW if you like to work that way. Anne: So then let's talk about, okay, if you're new to the industry and you're kind of overwhelmed with all of this, you are available. Like an audio engineer can be available to help you with all of those choices. Right? You can help in terms of, let's say, somebody doesn't know what to do to make their sound better in their booth. So they can consult with you, maybe send you a sound file, and you can evaluate and then offer suggestions on how they might be able to improve their sound, right, and get rid of some of the noise. And so that also includes, right, what microphone should I get? I mean that's the other thing, right? So we've talked about how important the environment is. We've talked about DAWs and how we can do things after, you know, we record to get rid of noise. Now, how important is a microphone in terms of the quality of your sound? Gillian: I think having a good quality microphone is very important. I personally don't think that there is a, a voiceover microphone. I think that, I know a lot of people use 416s. Those are tricky in a lot of ways. I think any large diaphragm condenser mic works really well because it's very sensitive and it picks up your voice. I have on my website a list of gear recommendations at three different price points, low to high that I recommend. But really more important than having the most expensive mic is knowing how to use that mic. And so that has to do with placement, understanding -- Anne: What do you mean by placement? Gillian: So for mic placement, it's really about where you're positioning yourself with the mic, and knowing a mic is circular, you gotta make sure that you're singing or talking into the right part of it. Anne: That's what I was just gonna say. Yeah. I remember once I had purchased my TLM 103 and I had it installed backwards, and so I was not speaking into the right part of the mic and I couldn't figure out why it didn't sound awesome like everybody else. And literally I had just put it upside down in my mount and then didn't realize that I was speaking into the back of it. And so that is a very important thing. Again, that's something that you can help as well with talent. So I don't want, BOSSes, if you're just new to this, I don't want you to feel overwhelmed because an audio engineer can do amazing things from remote. They don't have to be in your studio. They can really help you to set up a great environment. They can help you with selection or I guess I would say recommendations on a mic that might be good for your voice, right? Also placement, right? And where you should be speaking into that mic. And also maybe with your editing or creating what I like to call -- I have a stack that is basically something that I apply to all of my audio after I record. And that takes out the highs, the lows, does a little bit of compression. Let's talk a little bit about stacks and how they can help in the editing process. Gillian: Can we go back to microphones for one second? Anne: Oh yes, I'm sorry. Yeah. Gillian: No, it's okay. Just, it's so hysterical that you say that about the microphone because -- Anne: Being backwards? Gillian: I mean it's hard to know. It's hard to know. And something when I was in school that I was taught very early on and I never forget, and it -- I was in school, you know, for music recording, but they're all the same. So my professor would always say sing to the bling. And that means basically when you have a microphone, wherever the logo is, that's where you should be facing. A lot of people, you know, make the mistake of going, oh, I want my Telefunken logo facing out. You would think maybe that's the way it goes. And that's how it ends up backwards. But really, and it doesn't work a 100% of the time 'cause there are a few mics that the capsule doesn't work that way. But most of the time if you see a logo, talk towards that logo. And another thing for just very simple, little explanation for voice actors, if you have an option to pick a polar pattern on your mic, which will come in the instructions, it'll be on the front. You wanna do cardioid, 'cause kind of what you were talking about. Your TLM 103 was set in cardioid and you were facing the back. So all the sound was being rejected, but I know some mics come set in omni, which will increase your room noise because that means that everything around the mic is getting picked up instead of sense, just your voice. So if there's an option for cardioid, just pick cardioid. We can talk about it later, but just pick it. Anne: Fantastic. So then let's talk again about how we can make our editing a little bit easier on us by using what -- I call them stacks. I don't know if you call them something different, but these are processes that can be applied to your audio to help take out noises. And I would say when I first got my stack, it saved me like 50% of my editing time. Otherwise I kept going in and out of my waves and removing noise, and it just was so tedious. Gillian: Yeah. So stacks, whatever you wanna call them, it's really just a plug-in sequence, and it's stuff that every time you open it up, you have these settings, and they will save you time. And I think that everyone should have a light one that's just, you know, fixing up a few things, and then obviously the audition one because you send an audition, you wanna sound like the final job that should be a bit more processed. But that usually comes with EQ, compression, and all of those things. You know, if, if your mouth clicks are very present with your mic or with your voice, that would be on there, which would help with removing all those noises, and yeah, those things, having them set ahead of time, those can be issues that people have with audio that are just taken care of right away. But I do think that if you feel comfortable doing them yourself and you think that you can EQ yourself, then good luck, go at it . But I do think that maybe, you know, working with someone who can help you would be helpful. Anne: I agree. I agree. And, and I will say that just because again, I did not go to school for audio engineering, so I always highly recommend working with a professional. What is it like to work with you in terms of -- let's say, a student wanted to hire you to help them with their sound. What do you do? How do you assess that? Gillian: So my current offering that I have, which is kind of just starting point and sort of a pipeline into us working together further is I offer an audio assessment. Because there are a lot of people that are selling and selling and selling, and sometimes they sell things that people don't really need. So the audio assessment is sort of a checkpoint. We meet, it's not together, but this is, you know, our interaction. I have some pre-written copy that you'll get. You send me an audio sample, I listen, and I either say, hey, you know, you're really set, you're great, you actually don't need anything. You sound like a pro. Or hey, here are a few things that I would fix, and I address all the things that we talked about today. You know, I think that maybe your mic placement is a little bit off. I think that maybe your gain, you know , all the things I'm hearing. I would EQ it this way. I think maybe a little compression would help your voice. Just the things that I'm hearing to kind of get an engineer's ear on what you're sending to clients and how you sound. And from there we can go on and potentially, you know, build a stack together, and I'm working on building out some courses for people to learn a bit more. But that's what I have kind of right now going. Anne: Fantastic. So now did you say is there a cost associated with the audio assessment or? Gillian: Yes. Anne: Okay. Yes. Okay. So BOSSes, I do believe that we have a special offering from Gillian. Gillian: We do, we do. Anne: Yeah. For her to assess your audio. Tell us about that. Gillian: So for BOSSes and everyone getting involved for the next month or so, I'm gonna be running, you know, $20 off my audio assessments. For the early bird BOSSes, we are going to, for the first five people to get on my site and purchase an audio assessment using the promo code BOSSTOP5, you'll get a free audio assessment. I will kind of go over it, and Anne and I will actually be going over them on our next episode together. So you know, proceed with caution. If you don't wanna be on the show, don't do it. But the first five people will get a free audio assessment and anonymous we will go through and just kind of talk about the issues so that you can hear what I would do, what I'm hearing, just to have it as a further explanation for educational purposes, and for anyone who's not in the first five $20 off for that. Anne: Well fantastic. I love, love, love that because first of all, as you know, I am all about education, and so I love that we're gonna actually do this stuff in our next episodes. So yeah, bosses, the first five to purchase an audio assessment using the word BOSS Top 5, BOSSTOP5 are going to get a free audio assessment, and we're gonna be on the show. So you're gonna hear Gillian live, assessing your audio, making the suggestions, and we're gonna just be learning as we go. And I love that. So Gillian, thank you so much for that. I think that's a wonderful offer, and thanks so much for being on the show. I feel like we just -- Gillian: Just scratched surface, I know. Anne: Yes. We have so much more to come, and so BOSSes, I'm proud to announce that Gillian and I are gonna be getting together for more episodes so that we can have an entire audio themed series. And so I'm really excited. Gillian, thank you so much for today's episode and for the BOSS top five, guys, we're gonna be sending out an email. It's also gonna be on our show notes page, so make sure that you check out our VO BOSS show notes page for that offer. And wow, Gillian, thanks so much. Gillian: Thank you so much for having me, and everybody who's listening, if you have audio questions, get in contact, reach out via Instagram, whatever you do to get a hold of BOSS Queen, Ms. Anne, and let her know 'cause we will cover everything that you wanna know. And I'm just really excited to also, you know, educate people and teach them what they need to know, what they should be hiring people for, and just get everybody sounding their best. Anne: Okay. And that website is? Gillian: For me, it's gillwitheg.com. Gill with the G.com. It'll, I'll be linked in the show notes. And same with social media, that's, that's where I am everywhere. Anne: Fantastic. All right, guys, I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.