Seeing Jesus with Paul Miller

Jon recently returned from a trip to Asia, where he was training church leaders, many from the persecuted church. In this episode, he shares some observations from his travels with Paul and Liz. "A recent trip to Asia really brought a lot of eye-opening clarity to me. It wasn't necessarily designed this way, but it ended up that I had multiple opportunities to work with the persecuted church broadly in Asia. I've had that opportunity over the past few years, but I think as I get to know people on the ground more personally and hear their stories, there are some common observations and themes I'm just beginning to notice and really appreciate." "Suffering brings a lot of clarity." "There's no middle ground when the environment is extremely intense. You're either in Christ or you're not. You're either for Jesus or you're not. You're either a Christian or you're not. It not only brought clarity for them, but also a tremendous amount of hunger. It's really been, indirectly, a kind of poke to my own heart…"

Paul and Liz talk with seeJesus Arab World Trainer "Mafdi" about what we can learn about discipleship from someone who lives in a country ruled by a King. "Every believer has things in their life that are 'footwashing' – where you have to do humble tasks that someone might have shoved in your face, or they're just difficult to do and they're every day. Seeing them as something my King is asking me to do changes those tasks. And we know he told the disciples after the foot washing, 'if I, your Lord and master have washed your feet, so you are to wash one another's feet.' " "It's an honor for me that the King is asking me to do something for him." "If the King asks me to do something for him, I will joyfully say, 'Yes, sir.' With a big smile on my face. It's an honor for me that the King is asking me to do something for him. Like if someone asked me to help with something while I'm busy doing something for the king, I'd say. 'I'm sorry, but I'm doing so-and-so for the King.' "

Liz and Jon interview our Student Ministry Director, Robert Row, and Mid-Atlantic Coordinator, Christian Graham. "I do think the tide is turning, and there's a shift in the middle of the coming generation, in the younger half of it. I wouldn't describe them as an anxious generation anymore. I'd describe them as a generation that's bringing revival to the country, to our country. I can't speak to it necessarily around the world, but I know it's happening here." "We have to be ready, because this generation is bringing revival in some really beautiful ways." "It seems that evangelism has been based on how much knowledge you have, so that you can answer all the questions that come at you. But we're really training students to study God's Word by asking good questions and then to enter into these interactive studies. Jesus is the King of question-asking, and before he even says a word, you have wise men and shepherds, who come experience this Messiah laying in a manger and then go tell others."

Jon and Liz interview Jill Miller, seeJesus' Adaptive Curriculum Writer, about her new Bible study, Advent, and her children's book, Tully's Christmas Mess. You can view these new books and past advent podcasts and blog posts here. "It was December 26, and I put the tree away after it fell down again. Paul said, 'Why are you putting the tree away? It's only the day after Christmas.' I said, 'Hon, she did what she could.' I love that verse!" "Jesus adapted the majesty that he came from, so we can get a grip on it, a tiny grip." "If you only know the nativity moment of the Christmas story, it is like coming in at the end of a movie - you miss all that that stuff that helps you feel the climax of the moment. But the Advent Study, as we move through Isaiah and then the story leading up to Jesus' birth, we actually have a drum roll. It starts out really soft, but as it goes through the story, it gets louder and louder when Jesus comes. Then, we have the cymbals!"

Paul, Liz, and Adam Barker, our A Praying Life Ministry Director, sat down to share ideas about how to lead a good prayer meeting -- whether an "official" meeting or any gathering of Christian friends who pray for one another. "I watched my dad over the years leading prayer meetings. There were so many little things he did, but it seemed there were two aspects that were really key. First was the people there and what was on their hearts. The second was drawing people into the larger work of God. If you get too heavy on either side, the meeting gets unbalanced." "A good prayer meeting brings love and prayer together: people are listening to one another before prayer and listening to one another during prayer." "Sometimes, you have to stop and celebrate as opposed to rushing on. Being curious, remembering past requests, drawing people out. There's this huge exercise of love behind a prayer meeting, which hopefully helps the people praying learn to love too. It is just just lovely when that happens."

Paul, Jon, and Liz continue their conversation about discipleship, looking at the relationship between sin identification and beauty formation. "Sin identification and beauty formation are mirrors of one another. The beauty of Christ, which God is by his Spirit forming in us, is where we're going. And sin is the missing of the mark right where we are." "Beauty formation actually has an end goal: getting ready for heaven." "We are his workmanship. Our salvation begins this process of God working in us the beauty of Christ. He's the artist working on us, and the result is that we then become artists ourselves."

Paul, Jon, and Liz reflect on the landscape of discipleship, contrasting the boredom of plains with the beauty of high peaks. "One quality of all the high points is perfection. You see it in Jesus and the Sermon on the Mount's 'Be perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is perfect.' In other words, when you do these things, do them really, really well." "Beauty is one of the church's best apologetics." "Really, perfection is a whole style of the New Testament. Like, we're really in this for real. Toyota and Honda really struggled when they brought their plants to America, because they could not reach the perfection the Japanese machinists could reach in terms of clearances on the parts. Americans couldn't get any closer than two 1/100ths of an inch of perfection, and the Japanese got to one 1/100th. Every good trade has these perfections in it. Where are these perfections in Christianity, in our faith? That's what you see in the high peaks."

Paul, Jon, and Liz continue their conversation about the quiet role of beauty in discipleship. "Often, we don't see and feel the reality of God's created order, because we've not cultivated an eye for beauty. And that it gives everything a kind of a frivolity. D.C Shindler describes it, 'We don't feel the weightiness or givenness of things. There's a kind of a lightness of being.' The loss of a sense of reality is just all over; it's a subtle way that the culture is impacting the church. Even the church doesn't feel the weight of beauty, the weight of goodness." "God, who is beautiful, has created a creation that reflects his beauty and has made me to see it. As we enter into this world that he's made, we experience beauty too." "I was leading a cohort for a group of leaders who were prayer resistant, and one of the leaders who has since become a good friend said, 'I'm only here because I'm paid to be here.' And that was an experience of beauty for me. I actually got excited. It was real. I have longed for more reality in the church because the temptation to pretense in religious things is so powerful."

Paul, Jon, Adam, and Liz continue their conversation about discipleship, looking at the role of beauty. "Our first tagline at seeJesus was 'helping people see the beauty of Jesus,' and people really struggled to understand what we did. I thought that was because the beauty of Jesus is hard for people grasp if they don't understand the person of Jesus. But I've come to realize, that the church is actually weak on beauty itself…" "Seeing beauty requires attentiveness. But when you pursue it directly, you end up with a kind of a fake beauty or a hunt for emotional experiences." "They say if you can get a kid excited about reading, then you've opened up a world to them for life. I've seen a similar dynamic in discipleship, where if you get someone excited about Jesus and the beauty of Jesus, then discipleship is downhill, not uphill. Beauty puts energy into obedience."

Adam Barker, Director of the Praying Life ministry, shares insights into the transformative power of prayer in personal relationships. He discusses Travis's journey of prayer for his wife, illustrating how intentionality deepens love and understanding. The conversation explores how prayer reshapes perceptions, fosters genuine communion with God, and encourages spiritual growth. Barker emphasizes the connection between prayer and love, advocating for a life of continuous prayer that nurtures personal transformation and a deeper relationship with the divine.