The Copywriter Club Podcast

On the 239th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Kristina Shands, Copywriter and Launch Strategist. Kristina took her background in nonprofit and Public Relations and has been able to transform her clients’ businesses through the launch of their products and services. If you’re somebody who’s been dabbling in the launch world, and you want to increase the experience you provide your clients, this episode is a must-listen. We also talked about: How launching has changed and how the “what” has stayed the same. Giving people what they need to make an empowered decision by listening to what they have to say. How to hold space for your clients during a launch when launching can be high-energy and demanding. The strategy you can provide for your clients, so they don’t feel they have to do it all. The better way to have a killer launch and not get burned out. The easiest way to set reasonable standards and expectations for clients. The benefit to asking specific future pacing questions to prospects. How to implement love languages and human design into your business. The #1 component of being a better business owner and entrepreneur. Why it’s important to honor your energy management and the effects it has on your day. The secret to adding self-care into your launch strategy and why it needs to be a must. The right way to go down a rabbit hole and make it a beneficial use of your time. How learning something new can be self-sabotaging and impractical. Jumping ahead in your personal and business growth, so you can be “lucky.” The element you need to be part of the persuasion process. How to get off the “hustle” cycle and learn to trust the journey and opportunities that will come with time. Launching can be exhausting, but it doesn’t have to be. Listen in on this episode or check out the transcript here.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Kristina’s website  Full Podcast Episode #239 Transcript

This week on The Copywriter Club podcast, Marietta Gentles Crawford drops the secrets to standing out on LinkedIn without changing who you are. Marietta is a Brand Strategist and LinkedIn expert whose focus is on growing a strong personal presence *like a real human.* Amp up your personal brand and LinkedIn profile by taking notes and following along. We also covered: The once upon a time of an about section. (Hint: It was called a summary section.) How to support the authority of your brand. Pulling quality traits from every experience you’ve had and why it’s highly-valuable to your clients. Why you should never have to chase your audience, and instead, keep them knocking at your door. What not to do on LinkedIn, so you can avoid being the pushy salesperson online. Why you shouldn’t change who you are from platform to platform. - Your voice should be the same everywhere you go. The secret to pitching to large businesses and landing the gig. LinkedIn for slackers 101 - Do more with less. How to turn your LinkedIn profile into a client lead magnet. Why LinkedIn is tried, tested, and true for growth and authority. The ins and outs of writing for yourself and why we tend to lose the clarity that we see in other people. The importance of visibility and becoming a highly sought-after copywriter. (People buy from who they know exists.) Why you shouldn’t chase squirrels and give yourself a break instead. How to structure your days for maximum productivity as a parent. The mistakes of underestimating how long a project will take and taking on projects just for the money. Defining what growth means for YOU, and why you need to run your business like a marathon. How to create more than just financial goals, plus the power of creating mistakes. Hit the play button and soak up the brilliance that is Marietta. Prefer to read? Check out the transcript below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:   Marietta’s Website Marietta’s LinkedIn guide Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank Bree’s Episode Dave’s Episode Selena’s Episode      Full Transcript: Rob:  Is running a business, feel like a race against your competition or a race against yourself. You find yourself setting bigger goals, or working harder, and doing more only to figure out that you need to slow down and choose, maybe, a different race. Sometimes we chase the wrong goals, stuff like 10K a month, or six figure years, maybe even wanting to be a million dollar copywriter and our guests for the 238 episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is personal brand strategist, Marietta Gentles Crawford. She compared her own business to running a race as we talked to her and she shared a lot of, really, good ideas for using LinkedIn more effectively. Kira:  Before we hear what Marietta has to share with us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is a private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year, we only opened a Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, go to copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. Rob:  Okay. So, let's jump into our interview with Marietta with a first question about how she became a brand strategist and a LinkedIn specialist. Kira:  Okay. So, Marietta, we'd love to start with your story. How did you end up as a personal brand strategist and LinkedIn expert? Marietta Gentles Crawford:  I really stumbled into it, to be honest. I was an entrepreneur as I call myself, I was working within different companies as a technical writer and trainer, and I usually ended up hated my jobs and felt like I wanted to make more money, or I wasn't getting promoted, so I became what was called a job hopper at that time. And I was writing my resumes, and going through interviews, and through the whole interviewing process while I was trying to ruin my career, I realized that it was my communication skills that really allowed me to pivot in so many different directions from where I went to school. I graduated with a degree in English and I was able to translate my skills into accounting, and then to pharmaceutical, to retail, to education, all over place. And so, I realized through the process that it was less about my skills and more about the qualities that people liked about me, why they would hire me. And I realized that it was this whole thing at that time, we're talking about 10 years ago, over 10 years ago, that was called branding. So that's how I evolved into the whole process, because I became so great at it I started doing it for other people and charging, and that's how I started on my business as a side hustle, helping job seekers. Rob:  So, tell us how you went about finding those first couple of clients that you started working for. What were you doing in order for them to say, "Yeah. I want to work with Marietta." Marietta Gentles Crawford:  Now in 2021, or where we are now, I can say that it was content marketing. In 2014, around 2013/2014, LinkedIn was this thing that people didn't know what to do with, everyone plopped their resume, or copy and paste it there, and we knew that job seekers were there. And then there was this thing called a publishing platform. I love to write. So, I basically, just started teaching what I know. I started talking about my experiences, how to land interviews. I really just started writing. And as I was starting to write, I realized that people were sending me messages like, "Oh, okay. How can I work with you? I saw your article that was very inspiring." Or people would find me on my website and say, "I saw your article on LinkedIn and I want to leave my job too." So, it became this thing that even before it was a thing, I was selling my skills through my expertise. I was writing about what I know, not only through my personal experience, but how it can help other people who were looking for jobs, who were transitioning career, who were starting businesses, and I was able to turn this into, "You know what? It's more than just your skills. It's about what makes you unique and what makes you different." And that's how I was able to transition from not only because of having a side business, but in real business, and eventually working with entrepreneurs and small business owners who wanted to use LinkedIn to do the same thing. Kira:  Let's talk more about LinkedIn. What's, really, critical today, especially for the copywriters listening. If they want to build their expertise, they feel like they don't stand out online anywhere and they want to focus on LinkedIn. They know their clients are on LinkedIn. So, what can they start doing today on LinkedIn? Especially because it does feel in a way really crowded on LinkedIn. It feels like there's so many copywriters on LinkedIn. Is it even worth it? And what do I need to do to stand out in a crowd of platform? Marietta Gentles Crawford:  I love that question. It is getting more crowded than now that people are like, "Oh, it's actually cool to be on LinkedIn. Gary V is on LinkedIn, other writer are on LinkedIn." But I would say that the thing for copywriters that are looking to leverage LinkedIn, or there to get a copywriting gig, whether it's a freelance gig, an agency, in-house or their own business, is to start from the point of your personal brand. I'm going to remove the buzzword out of it. Because I know some people don't even love the word. Let's start from a point of your personality, your characteristics, other than your skills, because the thing about it is that the reason why it's hard for some people to stand out is because everybody is saying the same thing. If you are a copywriter and your niche is beauty, you're going to pretty much say, hey, you have proven skills in beauty writing, you've worked for certain agencies or certain companies, you're excellent writer. And that's one of the favorite things I see when writers, we say, where excellent writers, and it's like, "Well, it's supposed to be." So, I would say start from what makes you unique. A lot of times it's that story. It's your personal experience that makes you a better writer and not necessarily those skills, like attention to details, and researcher, at maybe people may think, "Okay. This is what I'm supposed to focus on." Rob:  In addition, then, to that personal, "Here's how you get attention," what do you do then on LinkedIn, maybe other platforms as well, but on LinkedIn, particularly, in order to build credibility and your authority so that it's not just, "Hey, I noticed Rob on LinkedIn," but, "Look, Rob is definitely the preeminent person in this industry." Or, "This is definitely somebody that I want to connect with." Marietta Gentles Crawford:  I would say first thing is taking an advantage of, about section, because it really a missed opportunity for many people who don't necessarily understand the importance of it. For example, I like to show how LinkedIn has evolved, because if you recall, the about section, actually used to be the summary section which is a summary and then they rebranded it as the about. And this is a great opportunity for copywriters because that's what we do. That's what you do. You tell a story. You do it for your clients, you do it in a way to inspire people to act. But, yes, it's a missed opportunity for your own LinkedIn profile, where maybe you don't tell a story about your unique skills or what brought you to the path that you are. So,

Dave Ruel joins us for the 237th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Dave is a serial entrepreneur and best-selling author of the book, “Done by Noon.” There’s an ongoing need to get more done in less time, and Dave paves the way to do just that. Whether it’s working fewer hours, finding a work-life balance, or you just need more direction when it comes to productivity, this episode is a must-listen. Here’s what we talked about: •  The plus side to bodybuilding and fitness and how it can be applied to business. •  How to manage discipline as a business owner, so you can achieve more in less time. •  The Effic method. What is it and how can you apply this to your life? •  Working hard leads to more success right? Not quite. It’s about working the right way. •  The better way to plan out goals and reach them. •  Why you need buckets in your business. •  How to look at your tasks from a different perspective and minimize urgency. •  The 4 types of tasks you need to implement into your life and business. •  What energy management can do for you. •  Narrowing down the most important things when everything seems top of the to do list. •  Creating the fine line between urgent and important. •  How small things compound over time to make the greatest success. •  5 elements to better habits and a better morning routine. •  The quickest, easiest way to get more done. •  Why you need to measure discipline over time and cut yourself some slack along the way. Habits, discipline, and energy management are key components to a successful business. Hit the play button or check out the transcript to absorb it all.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:   Done By Noon by Dave Ruel Dave’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Think Tank   Full Transcript: Kira:  How often do you get to the end of your day and think, "I was busy, but did I really get anything done?" Do you ever look back over the last month or even the last quarter and wonder why you don't have time for the big things you want to do in your business or your life? Maybe the problem isn't our calendar or our to-do list. Maybe the problem has to do with our approach to managing our time and our energy levels. Today's guest for the 237th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Dave Ruel. Dave is a former bodybuilder who realized that his approach to exercise might be a good way to approach all the projects he wanted to get done each week. Rob:  Before we get to the interview with Dave, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. That's our private mastermind that we've been telling you about for the last couple of weeks. It's for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other. They want to create new revenue streams in their business, create new products in their business, receive one-on-two coaching from Kira and myself, and ultimately grow your business to whatever your goal is. Rob:  We often say six figures or more. But if that's not your goal, we designed it to help you reach the goal that you have for your business. If you've been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com and set up a short information session with us to find out more. Kira:  Now, let's jump into our conversation with Dave. Dave:  I'm going to go back to my days as a fitness athlete. This is pretty much when it all started. So, in the early 2000s, I was an amateur competitive bodybuilder. So, I was very obsessed with everything fitness, bodybuilding, muscle building, you name it. In 2007, I met a guy named Lee Hayward. We were fellow competitors on the regional circuit. So, we've known of each other within the local circuit, but I've never met Lee in person. I was traveling to his hometown to compete that weekend. So, Lee actually offered me to stay at his house that weekend. We only knew each other little bit, but I never knew what he was doing for a living. The first morning, he was having coffee. He's like, "Well, I'm going to do some work. I'm going to answer a couple emails and then I should be done by noon. And then we can go work out." I was like, "Yeah, it's nice to be on vacation and have that schedule." He's like, "Well, it's pretty much like the way we operate here." I was like, "Really? What is it that you do?" He's like, "Well, I have a bodybuilding website. I make a full living out of it and making six figures a year, working from home. My wife works with me." I was like, "Well, okay, I need to understand how you do to that." So, I quickly treated my passion for fitness to an obsession for business building, started studying direct response marketing, anything that had to do with online marketing. It was very limited at the time, because obviously, that's in 2007. So, there was not that much going on when it comes to online businesses. Now, everything's online. If you're not online, you're nowhere. But at the time, it was very different. So, I created my first business at that time. It was a website that I was sharing nutrition and cooking tips for bodybuilding and fat loss that was called the Muscle Group. The website is still on. We still sell digital products on that platform. From there, I emerged more on the publishing marketing agency. So, basically, other coaches and other experts saw what I was doing online. They wanted to do the same thing. So, I was like, "Okay, well you have an audience, I know how to monetize that." Then we launched an agency that led me to invest in a company called BiOptimizers. So, that's natural supplements company. We did full turnaround with that company, sold it in 2016. During that time, for me, becoming an entrepreneur, it's like anything else, going to the gym once doesn't make you an athlete. I feel the same thing with entrepreneurship. You have to do it in order to understand what it is. In the process, I did obviously all the mistakes in the books that most entrepreneurs make when it comes to managing their time, their energy, their attention. I build systems around my life in business in order to fix that and mostly inspiring by what I had learned in sports performance. I saw there's too many weird similarities between both worlds. So, I started adapting that. Yeah. So, in 2016, I had the opportunity after I sold my last business to start coaching entrepreneurs. So, basically, entrepreneurs were coming to meet for the online business stuff that you're talking about. Okay, I want to build an online business to have the freedom and yada, yada, yada, but what I realized that these entrepreneurs don't need more tactics or strategies to gain more customers and convert more. What they needed really was a framework to help them operate as entrepreneurs. I started sharing my systems with them. The results spoke for themselves. This is how Effic was born. We're going to share these techniques, these systems with everybody. Yeah, now a few years later, we don't do coaching, but we have certifications now, where we certify basically various business coaches or consultants who want to use that with their clients. We have, obviously, the Effic planner, which is our best-selling tool. Rob:  So, we're definitely going to get into more of that, but I want to go back to the amateur bodybuilding phase of your career as you're just starting out. I'm guessing that there are a lot of behaviors, a lot of things that you were doing as a bodybuilder that apply to how you ran your businesses or that even run your business today. Will you tell us a little bit about what you learned in that phase of your career that you apply to your business today? Dave:  Yeah, a lot of timeless techniques that we have in... It's not just bodybuilding. It's really through sports performance in general. The thing that you need to have in order to become a good athlete or a good entrepreneur is discipline. The thing is that when I started training really and didn't know that I was going to compete or anything like that, I did that just to transform myself, I realized the structure it would give me, the workouts, how to structure my workouts, how to structure my goals, having an understanding, "What do I really want? Do I want to build muscle, burn fat? What do I need to do first?" The foundational work that you set and from there, you start optimizing and optimizing with time. The thing is that your structure needs to be solid before you actually optimize, right? I see a lot of people do that. The mistake that many gym goers do in the beginning is that they're going to take all the supplements on the market thinking that it's going to fast track their results and they don't have a solid base. Their nutrition is not good. Their programs are not structured properly. They end up going to the gym all the time thinking like, "The more I'm going to lift weights, the longer I'm going to do it, the bigger I'm going to get or the more fat I'm going to lose." It's actually the opposite that happens. So, there's an order to how things need to happen. Within this structure, you need to have different habits, different routines that make that sustainable. You don't just want to do that for X amount of time and it's done. It's a lifestyle. So, it's the same thing with entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is very much of a lifestyle. If you approach it as a sport or as something that you have to do in order to perform and do it well and structure it properly, there's a lot of similarities, right? So, we talked actually quite a bit in the book about load management and the principle of adaptation and periodization, different basics really in sports performance. But if you don't have that really mastered on a personal level, it's going to be very hard for you to evolve as an entrepreneur. Kira:  So,

Nicola Moors brought so much to the 236th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Nicola started her career as an investigative journalist who wrote about topics that are not easy for everyone to tell or to write. In her time as a journalist, she was able to gain essential skills that make her a great and sought-after copywriter today. Dive into this episode to uplevel your “interview” skills. We also talked about: How becoming a copywriter leads to more things you love. Creating a safe space for women to share stories that severely impacted their lives. The challenge of making stories unique and different from each other. Why you should never call an interview “an interview.” How to replicate someone’s voice without a brand guide and do it effectively. Mental and emotional stability when writing about mentally exhaustive topics. Why it’s vital to separate yourself from the story, so you can help people share their experiences in an impactful way. The best way to find captivating hooks that pique interest. The importance of letting people speak more than you do. The advantages of Facebook and finding your first few clients. Why backing yourself is the key to your own success. How to grow with a network of supportive copywriters in a lonely online world. How being cheeky and upfront will get you what you want and boost confidence. The truth about the stories you tell yourself and when it’s time to let them go. The back and forth of being both a procrastinator and a perfectionist. - Can they live in harmony? The better way to get testimonials and feedback. (Hint: It’s all about making it less work-like.) The plus side to being organized and putting together systems that streamline. Why it's important to celebrate your own wins as much as your clients. The secret to nailing Kira and Rob’s voice. Is it possible? The trick to making your previous clients feel special and remembered. Reversing into brick walls. - Ever done it? Be sure not to miss this episode whether it be by listening or reading the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Nicola’s website Celeb Copywriter Brand Voice Buddy Think Tank   Full Transcript: Rob:  This probably doesn't come as a surprise, but a lot of copywriters get their start in the world of journalism, whether they earn a degree or actually work writing news stories. As reporters, they learn how to find a story that readers are interested in, how to research and find important details and how to find a hook and tell a story, all skills that we need as copywriters. This week's guest for the 236th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is think tank member, Nicola Moors. And as you might expect from my intro, Nic was a reporter before she made the leap into copywriting. We asked her about what she learned from that experience and what she's done to grow her copywriting business so quickly since going full-time early last year. Kira:  Before we hear what Nic has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. The think tank is our private mastermind group for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more. Up until last year we only opened the think tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, email help@thecopywriterclub.com to set up an interview. Rob:  Okay, so let's jump into our interview with Nic and find out why she left the world of journalism for life as a copywriter. Nic:  The truthful story is very on-brand for me. So I think you're going to like it. So basically I was working as a journalist and one of my colleagues was always typing, always working and she had a website. I was like, ooh, and she called herself a copywriter. And I had no idea what that was. And she said that she wrote blogs for these companies and she got paid X amount to write blogs. And I thought, oh, that sounds like good because I would like to have actual money to buy more wine. Literally, I just wanted to buy more wine. And so I said to her, can I have their contact details? They didn't want to work with me, but I was really intrigued by the prospect of doing this copywriting. And I'm using air quotes now, which you guys can't see, but I had no idea what it was. And so I literally just started my business. I enrolled with the government, with HMRC, started my business. I think the next day I just started this copywriting course just to see what copywriting was about. And then it went really well. The first day I opened my business, I got a client in a Facebook group and I was so happy. So for the next 18 months, I worked as a journalist while doing copywriting on the side. So literally working evenings, weekends. And being a journalist, I was expected to work longer hours anyway. If we have a story in America or a breaking story, we have to be there to cover it. It's just part of the job. So I was working a lot of hours. And then at the end of 2019, it got to the point where I was earning enough as a copywriter to say goodbye to journalism. And so last year in February, so February 2020, I took my business full-time and became a self-employed copywriter. But literally, it started because I wanted to buy more wine and go to the pub more. But yeah, that's my story. Rob:  What's the fake story, the one that was supposed to be better than that. Nic:  I guess it probably still involved wine, but genuinely, I think people think I'm saying that to be funny, but that is literally the reason why I wanted more money and to earn more. Kira:  You couldn't afford wine at the time, or what was the deal? Nic:  I could, but where is the limit? There is no limit to wine. It was a case of, do you want to go from buying the cheapest wine, which as we all know tastes like vinegar, isn't very good. Or if you spend a couple of pounds extra, you can get some really good wine and that's a level I was aiming for. Seven pounds a bottle. Rob:  Yeah, nice. Nic:  Exactly. Rob:  So as you were telling your story, Nic, you kind of skipped over this whole reporter thing and I happen to know that you did some pretty interesting, pretty odd type stories or whatever. Tell us about your experience as a reporter. Maybe some of the stories that you chased down, but more specifically, what skills you were able to develop as a reporter that now you use in your copywriting. Nic:  Yeah, that's a good question. I like that. I mean, it wasn't until I had been a copywriter for a while that I really realized, oh, it's actually loads of things I had learned as a journalist that really translated over because as a copywriter you're not really taught how to find the hook. But just to backtrack. So when I was a journalist, I worked at a press agency here in the UK. So we wrote for all of the national magazines and newspapers. So over a dozen publications and we syndicated around the world as well. So it was our job to find stories that the magazines would want to publish, but not only find the story and convince the interviewee to speak out. Often I did quite a lot of crime stories so often it was really horrific things. I worked on acid attacks, murder stories, women who had been raped or abused by a boyfriend or whoever. So I had to convince these women to go on the record and actually speak out and tell their truth. And then not only that, but you have to find the hook to the story. So you have to dig deeper and say, okay, so this thing happened to this person, what is that one detail that is going to differentiate this crime story or this weight loss story, or this love rat story. Love rat is what we call cheating partners. Kira:  Wait. What do you call it? Nic:  It's a love rat. It's what we call it in the UK. Kira:  Love rat. Nic:  Yeah. It's a love rat story Kira:  Interesting. All right. Carry on. Nic:  Not only did we have to find this story, but we had to find that one detail that would differentiate it from all the other stories like it. Find it and then pitch it to the magazines and they would say, yes or no. But that's literally how we worked. And so knowing that I worked on a lot of hard stories, it really gave me a really good background, one, in interviewing. So I became great at getting people to open up at really often difficult topics, get them to trust me. Usually, it was over the phone. Sometimes we would do it face-to-face. Finding the hook, so what is this thing that makes this person or this story you unique. What is going to differentiate it? How does it stand out from all of the stories that you see in the magazines and newspapers? Storytelling, the features that I wrote, they're first-person real life feature. So it's literally, I did this, I did that. And so not only do you have to tell the story so that the reader can visualize it and see what's going on, you have to inject emotion. And there's a lot of showing and not telling. It's a real skill. We did newspaper articles as well, news stories, but the first-person features were really the ones that we did the most. So as well as those, which directly influenced the copying really helped, that I could translate that over to copywriting. There was also voice as well. Because we wrote for so many different publications, each one has their own style guide, but coming into a press agency, you're not told or given a style guide saying this publication writes like this or this one. And it was often really, they got as granular as some publications use double-quotes, some use singular. It's really tiny details like that,

For the 235th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Jill Wise. Jill is a brand and marketing strategist, conversion copywriter, and business coach. As much as she’s dedicated to her craft and her clients, she’s also driven to create an authentic online presence. Pushing through the noise and the “rules'' of what she’s supposed to do online, she’s been able to showcase who she truly is and attract clients who align with her same brand values. Don’t miss this episode all about being more YOU in a crowded space while serving your clients at the maximum level. In this episode, we dive deep into: •  Going from a side-hustle to full-on copywriter. •  How to break the rules the RIGHT way and feel great about it. •  Creating a safe space for clients and allowing open communication right from the discovery call. •  The step-by-step process of a white-glove experience and making sure your clients are supported every step of the way. •  Why an automated system can be a great addition to your business and enhance your workflow and respect your boundaries. •  3 tips to enhance productivity and getting your ideal schedule defined. •  How to shift mindset from freelancer to business owner and what it will do for your business. •  The question: Should you give your client a to do list? •  The truth about showing up online and finding your true voice •  The secret to building discipline—no, it’s not a trait you're born with •  The ins and out of solving problems and finding real solutions for clients •  When something doesn’t work… how to reframe, reevaluate, and get back out there •  Why you should add other skills to your repertoire •  How to properly evaluate competitors—mimic or do better? •  When you get the advice to “dumb yourself down…” run! Whether you’re a new freelance copywriter or an established business owner, you’ll gain new insights and ideas on how to project your own business forward. Click the play button below to listen, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Jill’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira:  Does this ring a bell for you? You see what everyone else in the copywriting world is doing. You hear what clients expect and you even get advice from a coach that you need to act just like everyone else to get the thing you want. The game's got rules and if you don't play by them, you'll stay on the bench. That's what Jill Wise, Think Tank mastermind member and our guest for the 235th episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast was told. Play nice, dumb things down, don't rock the boat, or you won't attract the clients you want. But something was off and recently, Jill decided to ignore that advice and be more true to who she is. And in this interview, she revealed her new brand transformation with us. Rob:  Before we share what Jill told us, this podcast episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Think Tank. That's our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us, and ultimately grow to six figures or more. If you've been looking for a dynamic mastermind to help you grow as a copywriter and as a business owner, visit copywriterthinktank.com to set up a short information session or email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com with questions. Kira:  The Copywriter Think Tank will help you figure out a lot of the same stuff we cover in this interview with Jill; things like client boundaries, creating better processes and figuring out what your brand stands for. Now, let's jump into our conversation with Jill Wise. Jill:  I graduated university and my husband is a few years older than me, we were dating at the time and he moved to Montreal and I did the thing, moved to be with him too. But I can't speak French and he can, and it's a French speaking city and you're not supposed to be able to work in most places unless you can speak French too. So I had to figure out how I was going to actually make money. Of course I had that Carrie Bradshaw vision that a lot of us have thinking that I was going to live in a cool city and have cool shoes and this cute boyfriend and get to write all these stories, but it didn't exactly work out that way because my first gig was writing 500 words for $25. And even though I was freelancing, I still had to get a job working in the kitchen of a vegan restaurant. And I was the head chef flipping falafels at the time. Obviously things got a lot better from there. We ended up leaving Montreal so that I could have an easier time working, and we moved out west to Calgary. That's where I found the editor who started giving me writing gigs for his branding agency. And after doing a few of these like landing pages and SEO blog posts and all that sort of thing, he said, "Hey, Jill, did you know that you're a copywriter?" That's when I Googled it and shortly after decided to go back to university to study marketing and public relations because I felt like I needed a little bit more than my English degree to feel confident going all in on this. Rob:  So, Jill, what did you think you were before you knew you were a copywriter? Jill:  Just a freelance writer, a starving freelance writer trying to figure it out. That was part-time and I was also bartending and serving the other part of the time while we were at West. Rob:  Okay, cool. Tell us a little bit more about that first project. How did you get it? 500 words, $25. Where did you go? How did you land it? What did you do to pitch or how did that actually come into your world? Jill:  I had been living in Montreal for the summer and I did not work. I had to finish up half credit in that time and I figured it would just be my time to take a break because I had a tendency to overwork myself, which I still do. So while I was in university, I was working like 30 hours in a bar bartending and had a full course load and all of that. So I wanted 18 months to just take a break and figure out what to do. So at the end of that time, when my money that I'd saved for myself was running out, I made a list of all of the publications that were English speaking in the Montreal area and I sent all of them an email asking them to let me work for them. One replied and said, "You can write about this." I think it was about a Comic-Con kind of thing or a Halloween kind of thing. Something would dress up, I had to write about it. I'd never been to anything like that before and after I sent it off, I was like, okay, now, how do they get paid? They told me to send me an invoice and I had to Google that too. So that's how I got the first one. And then they started sending me a few more. And from there I used that experience to pitch to a couple other gigs and ended up finding a decent one writing for the Yellow Pages, that was pretty cool. And it sort of just snowballed from there, went better one after another. Kira:  When you went back to school, I think you said you studied communication going back to school? Jill:  It was marketing and PR. Kira:  Okay, marketing and PR. What did you learn during that time studying marketing and PR that you feel like has been really useful as you've built your business more recently? Jill:  It was actually kind of cool because they had copywriting classes in the program that I took. So that's where I got a lot of the formal training on, I guess, the formulas that we were supposed to follow. There was a copy editing class. So my grammar is always on point now. So that's where I learned the basics of those and the professors were actually practicing in the real world. So we got a lot of knowledge from them too. So I'd say almost everything that I learned there was useful and everything else that I've done since then. Rob:  As you talk about the formulas that you learned as part of that process, do you have a favorite formula? Jill:  No, not really. I mean, I feel like they didn't teach us in the way that it's talked about online. It was slightly different. I have the copywriter's handbook and all of those sorts of things, but it wasn't like, "Oh, memorize this formula and then you do it." It was just the general way to approach copy because of course it's different learning from how we learn online versus a formal university setting. So I wouldn't say there's a specific formula that I follow all the time. I kind of don't really follow all of the rules. I don't know. I know that I do, but I just kind of go with what feels right when I'm writing copy, if that makes sense. And I've come up with ways that I want to do things as well. It sounds like I'm the worst copywriter ever, breaking all the rules. Kira:  You are the rule breaker copywriter. Let's just fast forward to where you are in your business today. There was clearly a lot that happened after the Yellow Pages gig to get you where you are, but what does your business look like today? What are you working on? What type of packages do you have? What are you excited about today? Jill:  I'm excited about a lot of things. Right now people usually work with me starting with their brand messaging and their brand strategy. So we nailed that down first, come up with their brand guide and then they usually move into website copy. But the way that I write websites isn't just to write pretty words. I write them to become actual lead generation tools for them to get more clients. So within those, we often end up talking about their pricing and their offers and their services guides and their proposals and how the lead is going to come from other channels onto their website and then onto their calendar. So yes, I write website copy,

Mindset coach and business strategist, Linda Perry, is back for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Linda is a recovering copywriter who sheds light on how to make mindset approachable in business. No matter what stage of business, everyone experiences struggles with mindset in one way or another. There's a ton of great advice in this episode. You’ll want to note all the ways you can make mindset practical in your own business. Here’s an inkling of what we talked about: •  The mindset around pivoting and the fear of not making money. •  The sneaky way low-hanging fruit can set you back if you’re not aware, and the better way to handle the low-hanging fruit. •  The truth about being afraid to say no to projects and the feeling of always saying yes to everything. •  The answer to the question: Are you telling yourself stories or facts? •  How to create vision in your business and why it’s the #1 thing to do. •  Why creating boundaries are key to setting yourself up to work the way YOU want to work. •  The reality of overwhelm and why it’s a trap. •  A clear vision is not a financial goal—here's what it really is. •  The 3 steps to let go of the “how” to let your vision thrive Linda’s website Linda’s 1st TCC Episode The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob: As a business owner, you get to decide how your business changes over time, whether it shrinks or grows, whether you add products or services, employees or not, it's all up to you. I was trying to think of a metaphor for how this works, but the regular metaphors that we use for transformation, like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, doesn't really feel like a fit to me here because the process isn't that straightforward and the results that you get, aren't always beautiful. So maybe a better metaphor is playing with LEGO bricks, building one thing and then breaking off pieces to expand it here or there and changing it into something completely different. And oftentimes the colors don't match and the shape isn't perfect. And maybe this thing that you've built, isn't even recognizable to anybody who didn't see you build it or who you haven't told the thing is. And our guest for the 234th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Think Tank alum, Linda Perry. She has dramatically reshaped and changed her copywriting business over the past year. A lot like playing with those LEGO bricks. And while the result is a better business, the process wasn't easy. And in a moment she's going to share exactly what that was like and where she's ended up. Kira: And clearly you have not played LEGO with me, Rob, because my colors do match. My shape is perfect. And the thing I build is always recognizable. Rob: You didn't grow up with the old sets where you only had... Kira: I did. Rob: ...like 15 bricks of blue and 15 bricks of red. Yeah. Kira: I did actually, and I feel like kids are missing out today because it's like, you have your blueprint and you have to make the thing that you purchased and you can just be more creative. So yeah, we can talk about LEGOs. I'm glad you're not talking about butterflies and caterpillars and LEGOs are way more fun. So thank you. And before we hear what Linda has to say, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is our private mastermind for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their businesses, receive coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow to six figures or more depending on your unique goal and vision. up until last year, we only opened the Think Tank once a year, but today we invite a few new members each quarter. So if you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow email, help@thecopywriterclub.com to set up an interview. Rob: Okay, let's jump into our interview with Linda Perry and find out about what she's been up to since we last interviewed her on the podcast more than a year ago—way back on episode 108. Linda: I feel like everything has changed in my business since I was last on. To start with, I think my business back then was primarily copywriting, working with a series of clients, having a couple of retainer clients and really just diving back into the mindset space in this whole new way where I really got to own myself and be really much more of a version of myself in the mindset space than I'd ever been. And today I think I have one copy writing client left. I do teach some life coaches about how to build their business, but I have built up my mindset business and have really nailed down who I love working with. And it is really, yes, I work with a ton of copywriters, but I love identifying sort of the phases people are in, in their growth of their business. So I typically like to work with people who are a little bit more established because they're aware of their mindset and how it's starting to be a problem in their business and how it's holding them back. So I have really transformed my business to be one of working on mindset and helping people really get out of their own way so they can build this super intentional, happy business. Kira: So was it difficult to let go of the client side and the client work? I'm asking that, knowing that it's a difficult process for most of us and a lot of copywriters really struggle with that. Even if that's the direction they ultimately want to go, there's a lot of mindset trash around even making that decision to let go of a lot of client work. So how did you work through that. Linda: Yeah. You you guys know me really well in the sense that I was somebody who was super attached to, well, I've got this coming in. I have obligations to this. I have to keep doing this. It's bringing in a certain amount of money. All of that stuff was in the space and in this space was this idea of, I really like writing, right. And am I going to lose that by focusing on my business, in the mindset space, am I going to lose this opportunity? Am I going to become sort of dull even in my own writing? So I had a lot of those things come into play. And at the same time, I think I got super clear on what I wanted to do and the impact I wanted to make so that all of that noise was really clear to me that it was noise, that it was fears, that it was my own limiting beliefs that were standing in the way. And then I could really start to anchor myself into something bigger and let it go. And I'll be honest, I still love writing. I still love doing it. I do write for myself, it's really enjoyable and fun and I don't feel like I've lost anything. So yeah, it was a process though, for sure. It took a good six months to really let all that go. Rob: I want to actually talk more about the process and I actually think is longer than six months because I want to go back when you were thinking, "Hey, I want to continuing education for attorneys." And then you were actually creating like a mindset course for another person, for a partner or a client. You've gone through a pretty massive evolution. And I just, I wonder if you could maybe talk through that a little bit before we get into where your business is today because I think the process of choosing a niche or leaning into a niche can be really uncomfortable sometimes. And I think you've done something more than just like choosing a copywriting niche. You've changed your business fundamentally and who you work with and what you do, but it's very similar to that process of choosing a niche, talk about that. And going back even farther, the head trash, what was holding you back, why it was so hard to finally find the right path and also your willingness to try different things to get there. Linda: Yeah. I mean, if I go back to that time, I mean, I love thinking back to those conversations where the three of us sat in. I was talking about the legal programs that I would create. The mindset around that was what is low hanging fruit, right? Where do I have contacts? What have I been good at? What do I understand so I should be doing this? And even though I understood how shoulds really get in the way, I had those shoulds coming up, because like everyone else, I did have those financial concerns and pressures. I still had, at the time my kids were in high school, I had a bunch of obligations that I wanted to fulfill. Money was an issue. And so I was always looking at what can I quickly do in this space to maybe become known, to make a decent amount of money. And that really got in the way of me being able to see what was I really passionate about? What did I really want to do? And what I realized was that in the process of doing that, all I was doing was spinning and spinning and working hard. I mean, my biggest struggle all along has always been going into giant overwhelm. And I think a lot of people get there and they think, "How did this happen?" And I used to find myself in overwhelm every few months and go, "Wait a minute. How'd that happen again?" And it was really all my doing because I was so afraid that if I didn't say yes to something, if I didn't say yes to a client, if I didn't say yes to the needs of other businesses, that somehow I would not succeed. And so that process was really little by little calling myself out and saying, "Okay, Linda, you're just scared. You're just scared that if you take this leap, there's not going to be anything." And in fact, maybe we think the niche that we go into, isn't going to pay us what we're doing now, right. We give up the good for the great.And for me, there was a story going on like, well, mindset coaches don't make what copywriters make. It was easier to make money as a copywriter. And it was really a story I was telling myself, and we all do that.

For the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips shares the secret to building a copywriting business in the nonprofit sector. Mariah is a Digital Marketing Strategist and Copywriter based in Baltimore, Maryland. She teaches entrepreneurs how to market their businesses and tell their stories. If you’ve been looking for a way to make an impact in your copywriting career, give this episode a listen. (Or read.) Here's what we talked about in this interview: •  Mariah’s journey through brand story development and the secret to long standing brands. •  How to write for top nonprofits AND earn a living. •  The right way to build a local community event with the power of words. •  The brilliant way to pivot and share knowledge with others about your expertise. •  A day in the life of an agency writer: sampling 10’s of voices?! •  The truth about going down the rabbit whole. (Can it actually be a good thing?) •  What you need to know about working in fundraising. - and storytelling. •  The formula to learn when writing to people not directly receiving a benefit. •  The better way to navigate a conversation with agencies and their strategy. •  Why you should give more value than your client pays for. •  How to go from scrappy freelance mindset to empowered CEO mindset. •  The quickest, easiest way to NOT connect with your clients. •  Why it’s vital to connect with people where they’re at. •  5 ways you should use the same metaphor. - or shouldn’t. This is an interview you won't want to miss. To hear it, click the play button below. Or school down to read the full transcript below and while you’re reading… subscribe with your favorite podcast app and never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Kira: Time and time again, guests on our podcast have told us they started copywriting without actually knowing that what they were doing was writing copy. They were just figuring out how to market a product or service and copy was a natural part of the process. That's also true of today's guests for the 233rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Mariah Phillips. Mariah jumped from PR to fundraising to SEO before figuring out that the thing she did best in all of those roles was copywriting.  Rob: Before we share our interview with Mariah, this podcast episode is brought to you by The Copywriter Think Tank. The Think Tank is a private mastermind group for copywriters and other marketers who want to challenge each other, create new revenue streams in their business, receive one on two coaching from the two of us and ultimately grow their businesses to six figures or more. If you've been looking for a mastermind to help you grow, email us at help@thecopywriterclub.com to set up an interview or go to copywriterthinktank.com.  Kira: Now let's jump into our conversation with Mariah.  Mariah: Somehow I've always been a copywriter and didn't know it. So as I worked... I started in corporate America, I worked in a boutique PR firm in then New York Metro area. And so while there, we had to do a lot of brand story development for clients. Some of our clients were global and longstanding brands, and since some of them were brand new and sold quirky things like monocles, like this was their first time ever stepping out. And so my responsibility was to write their brand story, write copy, and even write pitches which isn't necessarily copy, but pitches to the media are making a sale. So, I did that and then I transitioned to working for an ed tech company called 2U, Inc. And in the process there, I started off as a placement specialist for a clinical social work program. And if you don't know anything about 2U, Inc basically they power the biggest universities in the country, they power their online master's programs.  My goal there was to get into their digital marketing department, but at the time when I was moving from the New York regions back to Maryland, they didn't have any openings in that department, so I said, you know what, I'll start off with student placement and help these master's level social work students get their internships. And that was cool because in order to do that, the students had to take their social work program online, but they had to take their clinical programs in their hometown. And so I had to find clinical social work placements for students, working adults and places like Waukesha, Wisconsin. Places where there's like one person in a whole town. And I worked throughout different regions in the U.S. to do that, and that relates to copy because it was there that I realized that the team there who was pitching these different clinical social work partnerships and like agreements with health systems to get our schools in partnership with these health systems to make the clinical internship finding process easier, the pitches were very hard for people to understand. They just didn't have anyone who was like a wordsmith on the team pitching these opportunities to the major health systems and placement sites. And so when I joined, because I had come from the public relations background, I was just like, "Hey, these are some things that we need to say in the subject line to get people to open. You guys are asking people way too much, way too soon, and you're scaring them off with these emails."  And so I was able to, along with my team, of course, come up with copy for like, I guess you can kind of call it a sales funnel for how we acquired more national partnerships and legal agreements with these different healthcare systems across the country. And so when they started asking me like specifically to write emails for those sorts of things, I was like, okay, cool. I guess writing emails is a thing, but I still didn't know that it was called copy and I still didn't know that it was so valuable. And then I transitioned, I ended up applying for a role in their digital... On the marketing floor, so it was like a 12 storey building and everybody was like on the 11th floor is marketing. And if you reach... Nobody ever gets to marketing, so good luck you can apply, but we don't think you'll get it.  And I'm always the type of person who's like, well, you got to try. So, we had a few case studies that you had to do to get a role as a digital marketing specialist for their inbound marketing team. And I did the case studies, they picked me and the rest is history as far as how I got into search engine optimization and how [inaudible 00:05:26] later how that relates to how I write copy now, because a lot of people are like SEO and copy don't go together. And I totally agree, but the two worlds can merge at some point. So anyway, there I also had to start writing different sales type copy, and also we would have a lot of guest posts on a lot of website for those who are familiar with inbound marketing. And so in order to do those things, we would have to write different advertising copy and come up with like blog posts briefs which are a lot like copy briefs when you're working with freelance. I had to partner with freelance writers to help us write the amount of blog posts we did. And so it's kind of like writing copy briefs, and we can go into that later if you find it helpful to do so.  But I eventually ended up getting a job with Catholic Relief Services and they are one of the top global nonprofits in the world. And so I was on their digital fundraising team. It was just me and my manager fundraising millions of dollars a month. And I had to write the email copy for about 10 campaigns or more a year, as well as like product descriptions for what the website copy for donation forms and things like that, to get people to take action, to donate money without having something in return other than the satisfaction that they were making the world a better place. But again, nobody called the copy and it wasn't until I left that job... I did the thing that I would never recommend anyone do, leave your job thinking that you have it all together, but you don't really have a very well put together plan. I wanted more freedom to work with people like populations and help people who I knew needed my help outside of the guidelines of working for any sort of agency. And so I didn't really know how to do that. So I did the only thing I did know how to do was throw events. I didn't know how to do outside of traditionally working in the marketing field, I threw an event in Baltimore where we hosted Baltimoreans who just wanted to come and hang out and have a good place to hang and chill.  And through that event, I had to do like a lot of like off the ground and grassroots promotion. It was a live event called Sunday Dinner Baltimore it's still on Instagram and it will happen again at some point. But COVID happened, like I had the first event, it was successful, people loved it. People were like, "When are you releasing the next tickets for this cool event where we get to do trivia and eat good food and meet new people?" And I was like, "I don't know, because COVID is here now." And so that kind of like crushed my dream of having this wonderful community-centered event concept in Baltimore. So I had to pivot to doing something online to make money as I was no longer with my former employer and I was like, "I do know how to fundraise."  So I started putting out information a lot about my fundraising experience on LinkedIn and sharing different stories. And nothing about my story in the beginning ever matches so here we go. And Anti-nuclear Proliferation Think Tank in D.C. that focuses on women's education was like, "We need a fundraiser, can you come and help?" And they were like, "We'll pay you 2K to write four emails to help us fundraise for a particular campaign." And I was like, "Cool, I need the money.

On the 232nd episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’ve got Marcus McNeill. Marcus is the co-founder and CEO of Magic based in Boulder, Colorado. He works with purpose-driven companies who seek global impact and change around both the country and world. He’s helped leaders such as Eckhart Tolle and Deepak Chopra spread their missions and messages across the globe. You may want to grab a notepad right away because this episode is full of insights you won’t want to miss. In this episode, we discussed: •  How a conscious-based life can radically shift perspective. •  Why learning from Deepak Chopra became the greatest catalyst to vulnerability and openness. •  The secret to going from monkey mind to observing thoughts with confidence •  How an agency helped in decriminalizing magic mushrooms. - and the key marketing components needed to make such an impact. •  How to create multiple avatars for one campaign and nail their personal values to make an impact. •  The ingredients behind asking people to change their buyer behavior and trust a new brand. Is it possible? •  Where copywriters are getting their customer avatars wrong and why they should spend more time in the research. •  How copywriters have the power to truly make an impact and difference around the world. •  What you need to know before starting an agency and what should come first. •  The reality of growing a business - why it’s okay to take a step back, so you can take two steps forward. •  3 ways you can gain clients and close sales like it’s nothin’. •  How to maximize customer experience and become a partner with your client. •  The client comes first, right? Think again, when your team is connected and nurtured, great work follows. •  The truth about combining business and wellness. Can the two coexist? •  Why small impact matters and how it can be the first magic step. This episode might leave you thinking about impact and copywriting in a whole new light. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course, you should subscribe with your favorite podcast app to ensure you never miss an episode.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Our Event for Copywriters Marianne Williamson The E-myth Revisited by Michael Gerber Jonny Stellar Magic Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:  If you're a longtime fan of this podcast, or I guess any other podcast, you've probably had the experience of listening to a guest share their story and what they learned, and then had to reach for a pen and paper to capture the ideas that they're sharing, so that they don't get lost, or so that you don't forget them. Maybe you've even had to pull off the road as you were driving, or tell your kids to be quiet so that you don't miss something that you could use in your business.  That's exactly how we felt more than a handful of times in this interview. Our guest for the 232nd episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast is Marcus McNeill, the founder of Magic. And as we spoke to Marcus, we found ourselves taking more notes than usual, trying to capture the wisdom that he shared about building his business. Fair warning, you might want to grab a pen and a notebook, or pull off to the side of the road, as you listen to this episode.  Kira:  Before we share our interview with Marcus, this is the last week for a while that this podcast is brought to you by TCC, Not in Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers. And the reason for that? Well, it's just about the last week you can get a ticket for our event, which happens April 7th through the 9th. If you want to learn firsthand from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ishmael, and so many more. You need to get your ticket today. To do that, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tccirl-1. There's also a link to that information page in the show notes of this episode.  Rob:  So, hit pause now to get your ticket, and then jump back into our interview with Marcus McNeill, which begins with us asking Marcus why and how he started Magic Agency.  Marcus:  So, starting Magic, I would recommend going back a little bit further back. When I was in my early 20s, I was working in the corporate world and I absolutely hated it. So, I packed up all of my possessions and a crappy Honda Accord with no air conditioning and barely even operated, and drove from Texas to California in hopes of the California dream, living by the beach and all that. Serendipitously, although I'm a Texas raised kid and had never been exposed to yoga or meditation, or consciousness teachings of any kind, I got a job working with Deepak Chopra. I'm not sure if you guys know who he is, but he's a relatively famous spiritual teacher.  He teaches primordial sound meditation and just general spirituality. I learned those consciousness tools from him and it changed my life. It rocked my world. It changed everything. I was, at a very young age, responsible for launching marketing campaigns to promote his teachings, and for whatever reason, that led to more opportunities being the voice behind luminaries. I was working with the names of Eckhart Tolle, and later Byron Katie, and Kim Eng, and Marianne Williamson, and spiritual centers and spiritual organizations preaching things that really had a huge impact on my life.  They allowed me to get myself out of panic mode and come back to a place of centeredness and balance, and confidence in myself, which was something I struggled with for many years. Anyways, I became addicted to the world of digital marketing because I was 23 something years old, and was serving hundreds of millions of impressions of messages, of people who I truly admired, who were doing amazing things in the world. Every conversion was a conversion into somebody's personal development. We were converting them into a better way of being in the world, and that was extremely rewarding.  From that, I started working in Agency Land, first as a copywriter, then as a strategist and account manager, and then later, quickly after, I became the Director of Strategy, running strategy for all of the clients at that particular company, and all of them were purpose driven. And I wanted to do more and I wanted to do it better. So, the typical freelance story that many of you could probably relate with is that I started out doing freelance gigs with small little companies in town, and then over a couple of months, I had a business that was too big to manage on my own, so I hired a team.  Then once I hired a team, we called ourselves an agency, and then we grew bigger than I thought we would, or bigger than I ever intended we would, and that's what brought me to where I am today. I started Magic three and a half years ago with my co-founder, Gareth. Today, we have 35 team members. We focus on scaling the customer acquisition and the impact of organizations that are elevating consciousness, and enhancing health and wellbeing, and reversing climate change. That's where we like to play. That's what gets us inspired. So, that's a bit about how I joined the world of digital marketing and why I started an agency.  Rob:  So, I have a feeling that this question may take us in a different direction than what I was originally thinking we would be talking about, but listening to you talk about your experience and where you've been, I'm wondering about the consciousness tools that you're talking about, as tools to use in business. Are there... we could probably spend a whole hour talking about this, maybe even more, but are there two or three things that you've learned from experts like Deepak, Marianne Williamson, that are applicable in business in ways that maybe we haven't thought of before?  Marcus:  Yeah, that's a really good question. I would say that, ultimately, Deepak's teachings were a catalyst for growth in my life, spiritually, and that led me all kinds of different directions. That led me to experimenting with psychedelic healing. That led me to going to festivals and, and Burning Man, and going to yoga retreats and all kinds of things. So, if there's anything that I would take away that, I've applied to business, it wouldn't necessarily be a sitting practice in meditation, but it would be the vulnerability and openness that creates in yourself, which gives you greater capacity to be a great leader, because you can see that in others and help guide them into a greater version of themselves.  Kira:  So, maybe this question ties into what you just shared, but you mentioned that you experienced this boost of confidence, confidence with yourself, from working with these leaders. You mentioned some of the tools that you use, but what really worked? What practices worked on a daily basis to help boost your confidence during that time? Especially for copywriters who are listening, who maybe are struggling with confidence and they know that's holding them back, what is something, or a couple of things they could try in their everyday?  Marcus:  Yeah, that's a good question. I noticed this because when I started meditating, I realized that I have this Negative Nancy inside my skull, that's always telling me why I'm wrong or why I'm bad, or why I'm not good enough, and I feel like that is a common ailment. Most people can relate to that. They call it the monkey mind. When I started meditating, I would detach from my thinking, and a better word for that is I would observe my thinking.  Instead of controlling me and being me, then I became just the observer, which means that the thoughts were more like a flowing stream and I wouldn't cling on to them so much, and then they would dissipate and I would feel a bit more quiet. So, that was my experience. I had an extremely low self-esteem. I was picked on all through elementary school,

On the 231st episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, we’re joined by Sara Vartanian. Sara is a launch strategist and copywriter, but before that, she was a teacher and e-commerce business owner. She’s really done it all. After obtaining vast knowledge of the copywriting world through her e-commerce business, Sara has been able to grow her presence and establish herself as an authority in the online space. If you’re ready to create an effective lead magnet and begin building your email list, then you’ve come to the right place. Some of what we cover, includes: •   how to carry over skills from teaching into copywriting, plus two tips on being a better mentor. •   why giving less is more and how to charge for value rather than trying to give away your soul for pennies. •   when it may be time to let go of clients who are no longer serving you and open up space for new opportunities. •   how to create strong boundaries right from the sales call and how to stick with them. (No matter how hard it may be.) •   the secret to putting yourself in front of the right communities in order to build genuine relationships and establish authority. •   creating a lead magnet your ideal client wants AND needs •   the right and wrong ways of building an email list - are pop ups the way to go? •   why the “omg, you get me email” is crucial to building a relationship right away. •   4 emails that need to follow the first in your welcome sequence •   the truth about launching...do you need to have all the bells and whistles? •   3 ways to manage your energy during a launch. •   why it’s vital to set clear expectations about launch copy. •   the single most important component of driving sales to a launch. •   the sneaky way to get more people in the doors for your product. (or your client’s) •   a better way to handle burnout and sustain productivity and creativity. •   the secret to viewing comparisonitis in a positive light and where to find the best support in your copywriting business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Best Copywriter Club event of the year! Sara's website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Transcript is underway...

On the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast, Rob and Kira are going guestless. They’re sitting back and answering some questions they get frequently among our community. They’re giving their best advice and tips for new and established copywriters who are looking to level up and sustain what they’re building. In this episode, we dive into: •   when you’ll get the chance to build the foundations of your business with us in just 3 months •   the truth about working for free - should you do it? •   how to hire a VA that will pay for themselves. •   9 books we’re reading right now - one genre? Never. •   the #1 question we get asked every. single. day. •   the 3 biggest levers when it comes to pricing your offers. •   how to choose the most profitable niches in copywriting. •   the good and the bad of Clubhouse. (Note: We will be on Clubhouse on Tuesdays at 5PM EST.) •   if you don’t have copywriting samples for a particular project, here’s what you should do. •   the secret to building trust with potential clients. •   what Rob & Kira would do differently if they were beginners. •   success as a copywriter - how we define success •   how to maintain your business as you’re helping scale others. Tune in and listen as we give candid advice on your most asked questions. Hit the play button below or check out the transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Club Annual Event - Early Bird Sale Ends March 22nd Done by Noon by Dave Ruel Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson & Mark Ford Yes to Life by Viktor Frankl Man Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt Facing the Climate Emergency by Margaret Salamon Fair Play by Eve Rodsky The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells Lives of the Stoics by Ryan Holiday The Copywriter’s Ultimate Guide to Using Clubhouse Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:   If you've been listening to the show for the last three plus years, you no doubt have heard us ask hundreds, maybe even thousands of questions to the amazing copywriters and experts who have been on the show. We've even asked a few people to join us and turn the tables to ask us questions. Today we're going guestless for the 230th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, and we're answering the questions that get asked the most often in our free Facebook group, as well as some questions that are asked in our paid programs, like The Copywriter Accelerator and The Copywriter Underground. Kira Hug:   When you say guestless, it makes it sound like we're naked. Rob Marsh:   Does it? Kira Hug:   Like we're missing something. Yeah, it sounds like we're shedding all the layers today and it's just us. Rob Marsh:   Nice. I would hate to think that people would think that we're not clothed here, but yeah, that's ... How embarrassing. Kira Hug:   It's just us today, naked and we're going to answer your questions. Before we do that, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC(N)IRL, of course it's The Copywriter Club (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Carline Anglade-Cole, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Eman Ismail and more than a dozen others. But this event is not just about great presentations, it's not just about sitting at your computer and staring at Zoom all day. It's really about connecting with other copywriters in intimate virtual spaces so you can build real relationships, even possibly friendships, partnerships, and also get a lot of work done while you're with us over the three days. So we're really focused on doing, not just learning, and we're focused on implementation through workshops. So you're not just sitting through a presentation and then going back to your work with nothing to show for it. So if you're interested in this virtual experience that we're really excited about, you can learn more at thecopywriterclub.com\tccnirl-2021, and if you don't remember that link, then you can just find it in the show notes on our website. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I'm excited. That's going to be April 7th through 9th, 2021. If you're listening to this after that, you missed the opportunity to join us, but if you're listening before those dates, make sure you join us. It's going to be great. Okay, so let's open up, I want to say the mailbag. We don't actually get any real mail, email bag or the Facebook groups, and answer some of the questions- Kira Hug:   Well, we get mail. Rob Marsh:   Well, email. Kira Hug:   Oh, you mean like mail questions. Rob Marsh:   Yes, yes. Questions in the mailbag. So we're going to answer a bunch of questions that we get asked a lot, starting with, when are you going to open the accelerator again? So Kira, when are we going to open the accelerator again? Kira Hug:   I feel like that's a really easy question to start, which is great, because I like easy. So we are going to open the accelerator again in the fall. We are currently running the program with an incredible group of copywriters and we're going to run it again starting September. So you'll hear about it probably starting in July but definitely in August. We're going to make some updates to the program. It's a program that we love and believe in, and we're always excited to improve it and make it better as the copywriting space changes so that it's valuable to all the copywriters who participate in it. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I actually sat down this morning and started outlining some of the changes that I think we need to make, and I'm actually kind of excited about what this new iteration is going to look like, so it's all good. Kira Hug:   You're on the ball. We just talked- Rob Marsh:   I'm trying. Kira Hug:   ... about changes yesterday and you're already making notes. That's impressive. Rob Marsh:   I had some time. Kira Hug:   Okay, so let's start with ... I'm glad that you gave me the easy question. I'm going to give you a harder question. Rob, should you ever work for free? Should any of us ever work for free? This question comes up quite frequently in all of our groups. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, and I think it's actually a really good question because there are times when it's definitely not right to work for free and times when I think it is acceptable. So, there's a lot of pushback in the copywriting world about doing free projects or test projects, and sometimes I would agree with that. Sometimes it is not okay to work for free, especially if people are going to be using the work that you create for their clients, if they're charging for it, those kinds of things, you should definitely be paid for that. But occasionally there's an opportunity that will come along where you're asked to do a test project as part of an application process or if a client may say, "Hey, I don't have the budget. Can you do this for free?" In which case you might decide to do it, and I think that there are a couple of criteria that I would assign to that. First of all, does this free project, if it doesn't earn you money, does it lead to something else that is beneficial? So you and I, Kira, we talk sometimes about how there's more than one way to get paid, it's not always cash. It's not always money in the bank. So if a free project could lead to a testimonial, or to a case study, or to another paying project, if it introduces you to potential clients, if it is the starting point of a project with an agency, that kind of thing, then you might consider doing it. Maybe not always, but those things you can use to leverage in your business and sometimes, especially when you're starting out, testimonials, case studies, connections are worth more than a few $100 in the bank. So, in those cases you might consider working for free. If you've been doing this thing for a long time though, I think free work, you've got connections, you've got your processes down, you've got a few testimonials, whatever, at that point I think you really do need to stop doing free work and ask for money for the value that we create. What do you think? Disagree, agree? Kira Hug:   I disagree completely. Rob Marsh:   Yeah, I thought so. Kira Hug:   I'm just kidding. I've never done ... I mean, I'm sure I've done free work in my lifetime, but I have not done free copywriting projects for a client. I agree with you that sometimes we get paid in multiple ways that could be more valuable than a payment, than a cash payment, but I think as far as if you're doing free work, then at least you should be able to control it. Maybe you're building your portfolio and you're choosing a couple of clients and you're choosing dream clients and dream projects of companies that probably wouldn't hire you, but you're adding it to your portfolio and doing some really cool work that you could send over to them and possibly win them over as a client. I think the part I disagree with is that I would never feel comfortable hiring someone and not paying them anything, like a copywriter in that sense. So, I guess I question any client you would work with that's not paying you in some way. Is that a healthy relationship? I think even when I work with junior copywriters and do test projects I like to pay them something. It might be significantly less than a typical fee for a project because it's a test project and there are multiple people, and it's a different matter at that point. But if there was a client you really want to work for and they're like, "I'm not going to pay you for this." I just think, unless it is this tremendous portfolio piece and they've guaranteed they'll write you a testimonial, then I just would steer clear of that client. Rob Marsh:   Yeah. Again, I think it's never a hard yes or a hard no.