Crossing the Valley

About Luke FischerLuke Fischer is the CEO and co-founder of SkyFi. He is a former U.S. Army helicopter pilot and Special Operations veteran who transitioned through DIU (Defense Innovation Unit), Uber Elevate (as Head of Flight Operations), and Joby Aviation (leading government operations) before founding SkyFi in late 2021. He also spent time as an Entrepreneur in Residence in VC, which gave him direct exposure to what gets funded — and what doesn’t. That multi-domain journey across military, Big Tech, and venture is core to how he built SkyFi.About SkyFiSkyFi is a geospatial intelligence marketplace and platform that aggregates satellite imagery and analytics from hundreds of commercial satellite operators — making it accessible to any customer, anywhere, via web or mobile app. Rather than owning or launching satellites, SkyFi sits at the aggregation layer: abstracting away which provider owns the satellite and letting users task imagery or pull analytics with a button press. The business is currently approximately 80% government / 20% commercial, serving customers ranging from top global hedge funds and agriculture companies to Special Operations Forces, NATO, and allied governments across Asia. SkyFi closed its Series A in December 2024.For more SkyFi: skyfi.comFor more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.comFollow Luke: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukemfischer/Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

About Todd StieflerTodd Stiefler is VP of Enterprise at WHOOP, overseeing the company’s B2B and B2G business lines. He brings an unusually cross-functional background to the role: a decade as a Senate defense staffer focused on missile defense and strategic nuclear deterrent, followed by product and commercial leadership roles at GE’s industrial IoT division, LMI, and Palantir. A self-described “tech nerd” and ultra-marathoner who finished the Leadville 100 in 27 hours, Todd found WHOOP the way most people find things that change their lives — by accident, scrolling LinkedIn late one night. He’s been building the company’s defense business ever since.About WHOOPWHOOP is a Boston-based wearable technology company focused exclusively on human performance and health optimization. Unlike general-purpose smartwatches, WHOOP does one thing: continuously measures high-fidelity physiological data — heart rate variability, resting heart rate, respiratory rate, skin temperature, and strain — and translates it into actionable metrics around sleep, recovery, and readiness. Its early customers included elite professional athletes, and it has since grown into a mass-market product worn by hundreds of thousands of consumers and, increasingly, military personnel. WHOOP is actively pursuing the DOD enterprise market, partnering with programs like SOCOM’s POTD and the Army’s Holistic Health and Fitness (H2F) initiative. The company’s enterprise division, led by Todd, handles everything from individual unit programs to large-scale institutional deployments.Key Takeaways1. Build for your most demanding user first. In contrast to the “minimally viable product” framework, WHOOP’s early decision to build exclusively for elite athletes — with LeBron James and Michael Phelps among their first 100 customers — wasn’t a marketing stunt, but a product strategy. By targeting the most demanding performance environment, they built something rigorous enough to eventually serve everyone else. That same logic attracted special operators before conventional forces, and conventional forces before institutional DOD programs. They solved for the “edge cases” first rather than the average user, because they were solving their distribution challenge through their product design.2. But the right product alone isn’t enough… you still have to solve the process. Todd was direct about what WHOOP got wrong in its early defense push: they had a best-in-class product but hadn’t built the surrounding infrastructure. No contract vehicles. No data sharing agreements. No pricing architecture tuned to government procurement. “The DOD buys from people that solve their process, not their problem.” Getting that right — not just shipping a great device — is what actually enables scale. So while many of us laugh at high-ceiling IDIQs without real funding, the vehicle is a key ingredient.3. The wearable itself is actually not the intervention. This was one of the most important points from the episode: motivated, self-selected consumers who buy WHOOP on their own are signaling their desire to change their behavior. Warfighters handed a device in a conference room, with no context, no coaching, and no program design, often won’t. Even though the average warfighter may be more attuned to their body than the average civilian, in this case, if the warfighter doesn’t opt in, the product won’t deliver. This insight is why Todd never sees WHOOP going to a “push to all” rather than a “pull” based sales motion. If it’s foisted upon people, it will not produce the desired effect.4. In federal sales, relationships and strategic partnerships beat conference booths. Todd assesses that in the defense market, niche events where you can have real conversations, and partnerships with athlete management system providers who can pull WHOOP into their stack, have been the most valuable sources of leads. Trade show booths? Much less effective. As always, your mileage may vary, but it’s another reinforcing data point suggesting deep, niche relationships beat a larger breadth with high impressions. 5. Sell sustainable programs, not hardware deployments. Todd’s north star for WHOOP’s next 12 months is helping customers build programs that will still be running in five years. That means bringing in WHOOP’s human performance experts and solution architects early, co-designing integration with existing data platforms, and being the vendor who asks, “What are you actually trying to achieve?” before taking the purchase order. For more Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com | LinkedIn For more on WHOOP: WHOOP.comFollow Todd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddstiefler/Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

Byron Boots, co-founder and CEO of Overland AI and former UW computer science professor who led DARPA RACER, talks about building off-road autonomous ground vehicles. He covers ULTRA’s rugged design and sensor suite. He explains GPS-denied, non-emitting navigation and a field-first development approach. He also discusses demo-driven contracting and scaling from single robots to coordinated teams.

Ari Schuler, ex-goTenna CEO now leading communications at Forterra, and Josh Araujo, Forterra CEO and former Marine turned autonomy leader, tell the story of a rapid acquisition. They cover pivoting goTenna from consumer to military and public-safety, the 72-hour coffee-to-term-sheet deal, why culture beat structure, and how mesh comms fit into ground autonomy for blue-force tracking.

About Dino MavrookasDino Mavrookas is the CEO and co-founder of Saronic. He served 11 years in the U.S. Navy SEALs (2004–2015), with his final five years on SEAL Team Six. After leaving the military, he transitioned to private equity at Vista Equity Partners, where he spent roughly five years before the pull of mission-driven work drew him back to defense. Dino describes his transition as a gradual realization, like being a “frog in boiling water,” that he wanted to dedicate his career to building solutions that protect the country. He founded Saronic in September 2022 with backing from 8VC and a slew of other high profile investors.About SaronicSaronic is a maritime autonomy and shipbuilding company headquartered in Austin, Texas. Founded in September 2022, the company designs, builds, and deploys autonomous surface vessels for the U.S. Navy and allied forces. In just over three years, Saronic has grown to approximately 1,000 employees across six U.S. locations and two international offices (Australia and UK). The company’s flagship products are Corsair, a 24-foot autonomous speedboat built at their 500,000 sq. ft. Austin facility (capacity: 2,000+ units/year), and Marauder, a 180-foot autonomous ship being built at their shipyard in Franklin, Louisiana. Saronic secured a $392 million contract with the U.S. Navy in late 2025, with the Secretary of the Navy publicly endorsing their approach as the model for future procurement. The company has announced Port Alpha, a $5B+ initiative to build the world’s largest and most advanced shipyard, with the goal of producing 10 million gross tons annually. This would effectively 100x current U.S. shipbuilding capacity.For more on Saronic:* Website: saronic.com* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/saronic-technologies/* Follow Dino: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dino-mavrookas-190244127/* For Careers: https://jobs.lever.co/saronicFor more Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

David Barboza, Pulitzer-winning investigative reporter turned CEO mapping Chinese business networks. Bradley Martinez, go-to-market lead with data-driven finance and federal sales experience. They discuss building a platform that turns investigative archives into an intelligence tool. They cover pivoting to government customers, scaling integrations, procurement lessons, and real-world national security use cases.

About Our GuestsAJ Piplica is the CEO and co-founder of Hermeus, a defense technology company developing hypersonic aircraft powered by air-breathing engines. His technical background centers on aerodynamics and hypersonics, with early career work on rocket engines and re-entry systems. Unlike many defense tech founders who come from software or commercial tech, AJ’s obsession with speed and aviation started in childhood and led him down the space track in college before gravitating toward the aviation side of hypersonics. He chose this path specifically because he wanted to push boundaries rather than spend a career optimizing incremental performance improvements on existing turbine technology.Zach Shore was recently promoted from Chief Revenue Officer to President of Hermeus. After beginning his career as a Marine Corps Intelligence Officer, Zach served in a variety of industry roles, including as a consultant at Deloitte, Sr Director of Business Development for JAD C2 at Anduril, and Vice President of Product at Vertafore before joining Hermeus in 2022.About HermeusHermeus builds hypersonic aircraft designed to operate in what AJ calls “the final frontier of aviation.” The company focuses on air-breathing, reusable systems rather than expendable rockets or boost-glide vehicles. Their approach mirrors the commercial space industry’s transformation of launch: prove you can iterate rapidly on full-scale hardware by treating vehicle loss as an acceptable cost of learning when no crew is involved. Hermeus has won Other Transaction Authority (OTA) awards like Chimera and Antares, where the government pays for data and milestone achievements rather than traditional cost-plus development contracts. The company is building 30,000-60,000 pound aircraft, which requires substantial upfront capital and a production-first mindset from day one.Key Takeaways1. Separate mission assurance from safety to unlock hardware iterationThe most critical insight from the commercial space revolution applies directly to hypersonics: hardware risk and human safety risk are fundamentally different categories. Traditional aerospace culture treats hardware loss with nearly the same level of concern as human casualties, creating a risk-averse engineering environment that prevents the kind of rapid iteration required to advance into new flight regimes. The regulatory frameworks inherited from crewed aviation assume that preventing crashes is paramount, but autonomous vehicles enable a different approach where controlled crash scenarios become acceptable learning opportunities. This shift in mindset allowed SpaceX to iterate at full vehicle scale, and Hermeus is applying the same principle to air-breathing hypersonics.2. Build products for operators from day one, not technology looking for a missionThe traditional research lab model follows a sequential path: develop interesting technology, demonstrate it works, then attempt to transition it to an operational program. This approach has a poor track record because it separates technology development from real operational requirements. Hermeus inverts this by starting with the operator and ensuring every development decision solves an actual warfighter problem that delivers substantial value. This explains why product companies often struggle to work with organizations like the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL), which see themselves as architects who design capabilities and expect contractors to build to spec. When you show up with your own product vision, there’s inherent friction with a “not built here” culture.3. Concentration of capital beats diversification for hard tech at scaleThe Defense Innovation Unit’s hedge strategy tapped into a fundamental reality of complex hardware systems: you cannot prototype your way to a 60,000 pound aircraft on Small Business Innovation Research funding. The temptation in government innovation programs is to spread risk by funding many small bets, but this approach fails for systems that require immense upfront investment to de-risk both technology and production scalability. While giving 25 companies $5 million each might work for low cost attritable systems, in capital intensive hard tech the Hermeus team would prefer to see the government fund five companies with $25 million and pick some winners. This requires clear accountability and transition pathways, but it enables companies to actually build hardware that can reach production scale.4. OTA structures unlock speed by paying for outcomes instead of activitiesHermeus had success with awards structured as Other Transaction Authority contracts because they changed what the government was buying. Rather than paying for development activities and managing the technical approach, OTA programs pay for data generated along the way and for milestone achievements that deliver specific capabilities. This shifts the focus from process compliance to outcome delivery. For a company like Hermeus, this means the government isn’t dictating how to develop the aircraft or micromanaging spending decisions. Instead, they define what capability they need, and the company has the flexibility to build the infrastructure and processes required to deliver it efficiently.SummaryCounterintuitively, the hypersonics race may not be about who has the most PhD researchers or the biggest simulation clusters. The Hermeus team suggests it will come down to who is willing to take hardware risk at full scale, iterate based on flight test data, and build products that solve real operational problems from day one. Hermeus represents a new generation of defense companies that learned from commercial space: embrace hardware iteration, separate mission assurance from safety, focus on operators instead of technology for its own sake, pursue concentrated capital rather than diffuse funding, and hold yourself publicly accountable through concrete metrics.For more: hermeus.comFollow AJ: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajpiplica/Follow Zach: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacharyshore/Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

About Ian Ian Cinnamon is the co-founder and CEO of Apex Space, which he launched to solve a fundamental bottleneck in the space industry: the lack of available, high-quality satellite platforms. Prior to Apex, Ian worked in aerospace engineering and identified the satellite bus as a critical constraint for the growing commercial and defense space ecosystem. About Apex SpaceApex Space is a merchant supplier of satellite platforms (buses), building standardized, high-volume spacecraft that customers can purchase off-the-shelf and customize for their missions. The company has raised over $400M across its Series C and D rounds from investors including Andreessen Horowitz, 8VC, Shield Capital, and Interlagos. Apex differentiates itself through production speed, vertical integration, and a focus on unit economics. Surprisingly, they make money on every bus they sell. By mid-2026, the company expects to have approximately six satellites on orbit across various customer missions.Key Updates (One Year Later)1. DOGE Resilience: At the start of 2025, DOGE caused significant turbulence, cutting programs, shifting priorities, and forcing sales leaders to rebuild pipelines. Apex learned to “bend with the wind” rather than rigidly pursuing predetermined opportunities. Today, the company’s opportunity set is 10x larger than a year ago, but composed of entirely different programs than originally anticipated. 2. Raising Capital on Their Terms: Apex closed two major rounds in 2025, a $200M Series C and a $200M Series D. The Series D came unsolicited from Interlagos, who saw Apex’s execution and customer traction and pushed to invest even when the company wasn’t actively fundraising. 3. Vertical Integration as Strategic Imperative: As Apex scaled, external suppliers couldn’t keep pace. So they’ve brought almost everything in-house. By mid-2026, 70% of Apex’s subsystems will have in-space heritage. By year-end, the target is full vertical integration. This required significant capital investment but ensures supply chain resilience as production scales.4. Betting Ahead of Demand: Apex announced Project Shadow, a self-funded ($15M) space-based interceptor technology maturation program. They are positioning for massive opportunities even before demand.5. Building for the Bubble: Ian believes defense tech and space are in a bubble that will eventually pop. So his goal is to ensure Apex never needs another dollar of outside capital to survive. The company is profitable on every satellite bus it sells. This operational discipline means Apex can weather a market correction while competitors dependent on continuous fundraising may struggle.Learn more: apexspace.comSubscribe to Crossing the Valley: www.valleycrossers.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

ABOUT BENBen Van Roo is the CEO and Founder of Legion Intelligence. He comes from a military family (his brother is currently on active duty), giving him both personal connection to and deep understanding of the defense community’s needs. His career encompasses a combination of academic rigor and operational execution.ABOUT LEGION INTELLIGENCELegion Intelligence is an applied AI company that connects AI capabilities to the actual workflows, processes, and legacy applications used across the Department of Defense.The Core Problem: AI models have gotten remarkably good, but they remain disconnected from how work actually gets done.The Legion Product: Legion builds the infrastructure that makes any workflow, across any environment, AI-enabled. The company’s offerings runs on edge, cloud, or hybrid environments; connect to legacy applications without requiring expensive system integrator rebuilds; and are model-agnostic (e.g., work with open source, proprietary, and government models). Ben also says they are the first to deploy an agentic workflow platform in IL5 and IL6 classified environments.KEY TAKEAWAYS1. The Plumbing Problem Is the Real ProblemWhen Ben was at Primer in 2017, he watched open source models become “terrifyingly good.” But nobody was actually using them across their workflows. He realized it wasn’t as much about the model as it was about connecting AI to the six or seven systems people actually touch to get work done.2. Find Champions Who See the FutureGeneral Fenton at SOCOM was “light years ahead of everyone, including venture capitalists” in understanding enterprise AI. He wanted to bring AI across the enterprise before ChatGPT made it obvious. Legion secured their initial IDIQ contract because one visionary leader saw where things were going.3. Get Technology Into Users’ Hands ImmediatelyThe most important lesson Ben took from Primer was that feedback cycles are everything. At Legion, the philosophy became: “Any exercise, any event, anything where we can go—we’re going to be there.” Bring your own hardware, do all the work to get there, and prove it works.4. Make Early Technical Bets That Seem ConfusingLegion was first to deploy GenAI on small form factors for national security. First on-prem. First on IL5. First on IL6. These investments seemed odd at the time, when others were just focused on the cloud. But they created defensible positioning as the market evolved.For more on Legion: legionintel.comFollow Ben: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanroo/Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: valleycrossers.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com

About Ben NicholsonBen is the Chief Business Officer at Ursa Major, bringing over 22 years of government service to the defense tech startup. His career includes 10 years in the Coast Guard, legislative experience as a congressional staffer on appropriations, and corporate leadership at defense giants L3 and Honeywell.At age 50, Nicholson made an unexpected leap from the established defense industrial base to a venture-backed startup, driven by a desire to give back and the realization that his experience and perspective could help bridge the gap between young engineering talent and the realities of defense procurement.A self-described “constitutional geek” who signs half his emails simply “America,” Ben brings an unusual combination of technical credibility, government insight, and entrepreneurial drive to URSA Major’s mission.About Ursa MajorFounded 11 years ago during the space launch “gold rush,” Ursa Major pivoted to focus squarely on defense propulsion, addressing what they see as the long pole in the tent for anything that moves fast in the battlespace.The company is focused on three key mission areas:* Homeland Defense: Hypersonic propulsion systems* Munitions: Solid rocket motors* Space Mobility: Propulsion for orbital applicationsThe Business Model: URSA Major is a products and systems company, not a services shop. They’ve received $250 million of private capital (including a recent $100 million Series E), opened a 400-acre test facility in Northeast Colorado, and can go from clean sheet design to hot fire in 29 days.The Core Innovation: Ursa Major combines additive (3D printing) and agile manufacturing to achieve rapid iteration while building toward scale. Their philosophy is to use printing to lock designs fast and avoid costly mistakes before committing capital to production tooling.Check out the Website: https://ursamajor.com/Follow Ursa Major: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ursamajortech/Follow Ben: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-nicholson-666257205Follow Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahsheinbaum/Subscribe to Crossing the Valley: www.youtube.com/@CrossingTheValley This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.valleycrossers.com