Politics with Michelle Grattan

Barnaby Joyce's sudden elevation to deputy prime minister has put a significant obstacle in the way of Scott Morrison's creep this year to a commitment to a net zero 2050 target. More generally, it has made internal Coalition relations more unpredictable.   In this podcast Joyce reiterates his opposition to embracing the target, while leaving some wriggle room. "With the information that I've got at the moment, it's not on [...] And that's because there is no information." "What we know at the moment is that there is no list of 'these are the costs to people in regional Australia'." Still, he says, it's not a binary choice. And he stresses that the final decision on the Nationals' stance will be taken in its party room, although he wouldn't expect a formal vote. Pressed about his controversial dropping of the resources portfolio from cabinet to the outer ministry in his reshuffle, Joyce redefines  "cabinet", saying resources is "still in cabinet, even if it is in the outer cabinet".   On the proposal for a coal-fired power station at Collinsville in Queensland – which most observers do not believe will get off the ground – Joyce says he would have "no objections" to the government underwriting the project, but he'd want to see the details before being more positive.  "I'm very consistent in the approach I take, which is before you want me to underwrite what you're doing, let me have a look at what it costs and then I'll decide." Asked about his future if the Coalition wins the election, Joyce says he would intend to stay the full term as leader – but he is also  "quite open" to transitioning the party. "I'm not  going to hang around like Sir Earle Page [leader of the Country party 1921-39]". Meanwhile he wants to grow the number of Nationals seats at the election, not just hold onto current ones. He says his eyes are on  Lingiari (NT), opportunities in NSW's Hunter Valley and Senate positions.  Mentioned in this episode:The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

As well as her usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team. In this episode, politics + society deputy editor Judith Ireland and Michelle discuss the allegation by former Liberal MP Julia Banks that she was inappropriately touched at Parliament House by an unnamed cabinet minister, and her labelling of Prime Minister Scott Morrison as a "menacing, controlling wallpaper". They also canvass the government's decision to reduce the intake of returning international travellers, and the four-stage plan announced to eventually exit the pandemic's restrictions. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.

Following her pre-selection victory, Alice Springs deputy mayor Jacinta Nampijinpa Price will now be the Country Liberal party's Senate candidate at the election. This essentially assures her of victory. The Northern Territory returns one Senate seat to each side of politics. Price has made a name for herself already as a  conservative Indigenous voice, critical of what she labels a paternalistic approach to Aboriginal autonomy. She is also well known for her advocacy work - bringing attention to high rates of domestic violence in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities. Her stances on a range of issues have made her a controversial figure within the broad Indigenous community. In discussing her political agenda, Price highlights affording traditional owners the ability to create business opportunities and own homes on their own land. "A lot of traditional owners, and in my own experience as a traditional owner, have not had the opportunity to be able to access their own country for economic development opportunities and, and/or have the opportunity to own their own homes." Price doesn't consider constitutional recognition for Indigenous peoples a policy priority, favouring instead "practical measures that are going to generate outcomes." "I certainly don't mind the idea of being recognised in our nation's constitution[...][but] I'm more focused on the more immediate, practical issues, trying to provide outcomes for the betterment of Indigenous Australians, as opposed to, you know, symbolic gestures."  Nor does she call herself "a fan of" the voice to parliament, a proposal which would give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders a say in law and policy affecting them.  "I think we do have Indigenous voices in parliament - I guess it's upon them who have been there already to actually be doing a better job[...]if we need a voice to parliament, then clearly that's saying something about the representatives who have been there already." "If we're reaching for equality, true equality, then that means that Indigenous Australians be on the same footing as all other Australians"

As well as her usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team. In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss Scott Morrison's Monday night announcement encouraging younger people to discuss with their doctors getting the AstraZeneca vaccine - despite this not being recommended by the official technical expert group which advises the government They also dive into how the government's handling of the pandemic is affecting its wider support, and the opposition's ability to cut through in the wake of the pandemic.

The government's response to the UNESCO recommendation that the Great Barrier Reef be listed as "in danger" was one of surprise and shock. The recommendation will be considered at UNESCO's World Heritage Committee meeting next month.  While the proposal calls attention to the need to address the effect of climate change and other factors which are degrading  the reef, the government alleges it's part of wider global politics. Environment Minister Sussan Ley is adamant UNESCO's recommendation represents "international politics at play" which have "subverted the normal and proper process." In the background, the government points to China – which chairs the World heritage Committee – but Ley treads carefully. "Others can make judgements about what those international politics are..." "If the politicisation of a process that we have constructively contributed to for over 40 years is now going to be the norm, the points that I will make with the 21 member countries [on the committee] and others who might influence them is that this is the moment to reflect on what the World Heritage Committee is all about and consider the risk to your own properties. "Because if the entire system is politicised, then we aren't going to be acting in the interests of the natural heritage values of these places." Her opposition "shadow" Terri Butler wouldn't speculate on what might be underlying the decision but "Australians would be very disappointed if they thought there was anything behind the decision other than concern for the reef." "What's important here is for people to be able to have confidence in UNESCO in this decision making process." Butler says heading off the listing is important not just to avoid discouraging tourists from overseas but also for Australia's image on the global stage. "It's really important [the government] demonstrate to the world they're serious about protecting the reef, preserving it for future generations. And if they do that, they should also be in a position to fight really hard to avoid this particular listing.  Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.

As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team. In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle dive into the National party spill, which resulted in Barnaby Joyce grabbing back his old leadership job, what this means for the Nationals at the election, and the climate change policy position this puts Scott Morrison in. They also discuss the recommendation by UNESCO to list the Great Barrier Reef as "in danger", and the suggestion by the government this classification was politically motivated. Mentioned in this episode:The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

With Scott Morrison overseas, Nationals leader Michael McCormack has been Acting Prime Minister this week. In this podcast, he speaks about the free trade agreement with the UK, climate change, coal, the Nationals, and China. With speculation about whether Morrison will embrace a 2050 net zero target before the Glasgow climate conference, the attitude of the Nationals is critical and McCormack is under pressure from a vocal group in his party that is strongly against the target. McCormack says the National party will not supporting signing up to the target this year. When it is put to him, “we can be sure that the Nats would not embrace that target?” his reply is definite. “Correct”. On coal, unlike many in the government, McCormack believes the controversial proposal for a coal-fired power station at Collinsville in Queensland can be a goer. A feasibility study is being conducted for the project. (It is understood a draft report has been produced already.) McCormack says the study is “very much on its way”. Shire Energy CEO Ashley Dodd “texts me every day of every week and highlights the progress. And last week there were some really, really positive news.” Asked whether he thinks the government will be able to support the project, McCormack says, “provided every box [including environmental ones] is ticked, yes”. “If the proponents come forward with everything that they’re required to do, then I can see no reason why it wouldn’t be supported. And of course, it’s not just the federal government. It’s other entities, too, which need to come on board.”  

As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team. In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle dive into Tuesday's announcement that the Bioela Tamil family will now live in Perth while their court proceedings are underway, after being incarcerated on Christmas Island since 2019. They also discuss Scott Morrison's meeting with US President Joe Biden, and Michael McCormack's sitting in the PM's parliamentary chair this week. Mentioned in this episode:The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025

Senator Rex Patrick is currently challenging the secrecy around Scott Morrison's national cabinet. He's brought legal action – the outcome is pending – to attempt to have the minutes of this body, which includes federal, state and territory leaders, made public. The government claims the documents are protected by an exemption for cabinet documents in the freedom of information act, while Patrick claims national cabinet lacks some of the essential features that would afford it that cover.   Patrick's also pressing for improvements in the freedom information law, which has become increasingly obstacle-ridden, to allow applicants more rights. It's perhaps no wonder former senator Nick Xenophon, for whom Patrick once worked, labelled him "Inspector Rex".   On a very different front, as a former submariner Patrick has been highly critical of the government's Future Submarine Program, which has contracted a French company to build 12 submarines for the Royal Australian Navy. Patrick says the company is taking too long, and charging too much, to make submarines which may fail to achieve the necessary sovereign capability.   In this podcast, Patrick says Scott Morrison should take the opportunity during his coming meeting with French President Macron to issue an ultimatum that changes must be made.   "You know, despite the good relationship we may have with France, this is a matter of national security, and it's also a matter of a huge amount of public expenditure. And the prime minister must put the Australian public before that relationship. And I think it would be wise for him to be just very frank and honest with the French president."   Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.

As well as Michelle Grattan's usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes "Word from The Hill", where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations's politics team. In this week's episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discusses with Michelle current issues and what's coming up.  The pair dive into Speaker of The House Tony Smith's efforts to reform Question Time, Scott Morrison's agenda for the G7 Summit - taking place this weekend in the United Kingdom, and Victoria's slow emergence out of lockdown. Mentioned in this episode:Your support mattersSupport non-profit journalism you can trust. Donations 2025The Making of an AutocratSearch: "The Conversation Weekly" for our new series. Is America watching its democracy unravel in real time? In The Making of an Autocrat from The Conversation, six of the world’s pre-eminant scholars reveal the recipe for authoritarian rule. From capturing a party, to controlling the military, Donald Trump is borrowing from the playbook of strongmen thoughout history. This is the story of how democracies falter — and what might happen next.