Environment China

Today we are back talking about global climate policy with Li Shuo of Greenpeace East Asia. The COP26 or Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change just wrapped up a bit more than a week ago and we've had time to take stock and see some of the media coverage of that, a lot of which was critical. We discuss the shortcomings of other countries' climate commitments, such as on climate finance. We are also digesting the communique issued by China and the US about climate cooperation. In the podcast we referenced the optimistic scenario of Carbon Action Tracker, which projects 1.8 degrees C of climate change if all targets and commitments are fully implemented: https://climateactiontracker.org/global/temperatures/.

Today's episode is a very special episode for us, as we're honored to have three founding members of Beijing Energy Network, Brendan Acord, Jason Lee, and Julian Wong, with us to celebrate our approximately 100th episode at Environment China. The episode has 3 very different parts. These time stamps should help you navigate: In the first segment, starting at 0:03, we discuss how BEN got started, what made it different, and what it was like working on energy and the environment in 2008-09. At 0:22, Joyce and Helena discuss BEN in the past few years and how it has evolved. At 0:26, we look out to the next 13 years of world climate and energy futures, by playing a game of buy-sell-or-hold. Our guests: Brendan Acord came to China after graduating from UCSD, He worked at AES consulting and later BrightSource Energy, and he is currently in Chengdu where he manages a solar PV consultancy which has projects in China and abroad. Julian Wong is a corporate lawyer, currently at QuantumScape, a company in Silicon Valley developing advanced battery materials. He's been passionate about environmental issues since growing up. He moved to China in 2008. He returned to DC and worked at the Center for American Progress, and then worked with David Sandalow at the Department of Energy on US-China issues. Jason Lee, works in business strategy at AirBnB. He came to China under the Fulbright program working on China energy policy research. Afterwards he did energy consulting at McKinsey.

This year has been packed with China environmental and climate news, and there's no way this podcast could keep up. But today we're going to try! Our guests today are Li Shuo of Greenpeace East Asia and Christoph Nedopil-Wang of Shanghai Fudan University (and Global Bavarian). We're going to tackle the following hot topics: The biodiversity COP in Kunming The upcoming Glasgow COP The China announcement on finance for coal abroad And upcoming climate finance policies

Today, we have a fascinating discussion about corporate sustainability at one of China's most famous Internet companies. Guan Li, who joins on her own behalf, discusses her work on corporate sustainability in both the US and China and the status of Meituan's efforts on corporate sustainability and waste reduction/recycling. Guan Li works as Senior Manager of Corporate Social Responsibility at Meituan Waimai, one of China's largest online food delivery apps. She leads the Meituan Green Tech fund program (greentech.meituan.com). Li has over six years of experience as a corporate sustainability professional. After graduation from Macalester College in St Paul, MN, she worked in sustainability roles at Metro Transit in Minnesota, at Amazon, and at the Chinese food delivery app Ele.me. She has expertise in energy efficiency, carbon emissions calculation, renewable energy, supply chain labor rights, and circular economy. Time stamps: 0:55 - About Guan Li's work at Meituan 2:16 - The two main strategies: waste reduction and recycling 5:02 - Meituan's role in reducing waste 7:58 - What the data show (or don't show) on waste from food delivery 10:32 - Meituan and carbon neutrality 12:10 - Waste sorting in different cities 13:19 - Green Tech Fund 15:05 - US-China differences

Today we will be talking about a new report that discusses one of the most critical topics for global emissions reduction: How China's most carbon-intensive industries are planning to decarbonize. Since September 2020 when President Xi Jinping announced that China would aim to peak emissions before 2030 and reach carbon neutrality by 2060, some of China's biggest companies have committed to new climate targets to meet that national goal. In this report, Columbia Center for Global Energy Policy Non-Resident Fellow and Princeton PhD student Ned Downie looks at the three of the highest emitting industries in China: electricity, steel, and cement and helps us understand exactly what those announcements add up to. Further reading: Edmund Downie, "Getting to 30-60: How China's Biggest Coal Power, Cement, and Steel Corporations Are Responding to National Decarbonization Pledges," Columbia Center on Global Energy Policy, 25 August 2021, at https://www.energypolicy.columbia.edu/research/report/getting-30-60-how-china-s-biggest-coal-power-cement-and-steel-corporations-are-responding-national. "Major News | A Carbon Emissions Declaration from the World's Biggest Steel Firm, China Baowu: Aiming for 'Carbon Peaking' in 2023 and for Achieving 'Carbon Neutrality' in 2050," January 20, 2021, at http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MjM5MDEzNzA5Ng==&mid=2654852246&idx=1&sn=d479656526315c56691b0101482a16af&chksm=bd801af18af793e733b0f5cdd0d7d101eef0150feb831bddf9d705673f715b6128e57e0619d0#rd. "HBIS Announces Low-Carbon Green Development Action Plan," HBIS WeChat channel, March 12, 2021, at http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5MjA2Mjk3MA==&mid=2653109712&idx=1&sn=9539988bd1af53094e892177fc7752db&chksm=8ba54845bcd2c1533f04fc3a53789adb1e68c0dc5c3674a4007aea087b970cbaa2de89d27e83#rd.

Today we will be talking about China's new carbon market, from the market perspective, with Jeff Huang of AEX, a Hong Kong based company seeking to create a transparent and neutral forward trading facility for hedging power and emissions in China. AEX empowers China power and emissions market participants with market data and analytical tools, market insight, and by sharing international trading and risk-management best-practices. Here are a few things we cover in this episode: An assessment of early trading in China's newly launched national carbon market. We hear Jeff's opinion on how benchmark allocation could evolve into auction-based allocation. Jeff discusses clean-dark spreads, which is the difference in price between the revenue from the power price versus the costs in terms of fuel (the coal price) plus the carbon price. Jeff talks about the provincial spot electricity market pilots, in particular Guangdong, and how much traders have to learn to master these markets. We discuss the importance of futures contracts, which are contracts that obligate the parties to transact an asset at a predetermined future date and price. We discuss the benefits of futures in terms of providing market price forecasts as well as enabling generators to reduce risks. We discuss whether carbon markets might evolve to provide a meaningful long-term signal rather than only a short-term price signal.

[Special note: due to microphone issues, the audio quality on this episode was somewhat poor, and may require listening in a quiet place. We think you will find the content compelling nonetheless.] Today we will be talking about some recent issues related to climate change in China, especially the launch of trading on China's national carbon trading system, as well as coverage of recent flooding in Henan province. Our guest today is Liu Hongqiao, China Specialist with Carbon Brief. Hongqiao holds a masters in international relations (specialising in international energy) from Sciences Po in France. She previously worked as an independent consultant covering water, climate change and wildlife. Prior to that, Hongqiao was a Beijing-based journalist and analyst writing for publications such as Caixin and China Dialogue. Carbon Brief is a UK-based website covering the latest developments in climate science, climate policy and energy policy, specialised in data-driven articles and graphics to help improve the understanding of climate change, both in terms of the science and the policy response. Topics we cover in detail today: Assessment of China's newly-launched carbon emissions trading system (ETS) How the ETS will evolve Whether the ETS will reduce emissions directly, or play a minor or supporting role Misconceptions about China's Five-Year Plan and 2030-2060 carbon peaking and carbon neutrality goals Global media and scientific coverage of extreme weather How Chinese media have approached the issue of climate attribution Important references from Carbon Brief: You Xiaoying, "China issues new 'single-game' instructions to guide its climate action," Carbon Brief, 4 August 2021, at https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-issues-new-single-game-instructions-to-guide-its-climate-action. Liu Hongqiao, "In-depth Q&A: Will China's emissions trading scheme help tackle climate change?," Carbon Brief, 24 June 2021, at https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-will-chinas-emissions-trading-scheme-help-tackle-climate-change. Geert Jan van Oldenborgh et al., "­­­Lessons learned from five years of extreme weather 'rapid attribution'," Carbon Brief, 12 May 2021, at https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-lessons-learned-from-five-years-of-extreme-weather-rapid-attribution. Liu Hongqiao et al., "Q&A: What does China's 14th 'five year plan' mean for climate change?," Carbon Brief, 12 March 2021, at https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-does-chinas-14th-five-year-plan-mean-for-climate-change. "China Briefing, 29 July 2021: Lessons from deadly flooding; Definition of 'carbon neutrality'; UK-China nuclear tensions," Carbon Brief, 29 July 2021, at https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-briefing-29-july-2021-lessons-from-deadly-flooding-definition-of-carbon-neutrality-uk-china-nuclear-tensions. Other reports mentioned by Hongqiao: Valerie J. Karplus, "China's CO2 Emissions Trading System: History, Status, and Outlook," Harvard Belfer Center, June 2021, at https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/chinas-co2-emissions-trading-system-history-status-and-outlook. International Energy Agency analysis of China ETS: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-role-of-chinas-ets-in-power-sector-decarbonisation Transition Zero analysis of China ETS: https://www.transitionzero.org/insights/putting-chinas-carbon-market-in-perspective Twitter thread from Liu Hongqiao on weather attribution: https://twitter.com/LHongqiao/status/1420784539547340811

Today we will be talking about debt swaps and China's role in the global financial landscape, with Rebecca Ray and Blake Alexander Simmons of BU. Although China has only recently become a major creditor, it has already built a strong record of bilateral debt relief and has even begun to advocate for linking actions to promote biodiversity and fighting climate change with international finance and debt relief. Guests: Rebecca Ray is a Senior Academic Researcher at the Global Development Policy Center, at Boston University. She holds a PhD in Economics from the University of Massachusetts-Amherst and an MA in International Development from the Elliott School of International Affairs at the George Washington University. Since 2013, she has focused on the nexus of international development finance, particularly China's role in reshaping the global financial landscape, and sustainable development, particularly in Latin America. She produces the annual China-Latin America Economic Bulletin series and the China's Overseas Development Finance database. She was lead editor for the books China and Sustainable Development in Latin America: the Social and Environmental Dimension and Development Banks and Sustainability in the Andean Amazon. Blake Alexander Simmons is a Post-Doctoral Research Fellow at the Global Development Policy Center. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Queensland (Australia) and his M.S. from the University of Antwerp (Belgium). His research focuses on how environmental, political, and psychosocial factors influence conservation decisions in social-ecological systems, and how we can change behaviors to achieve positive outcomes for people and nature. At the GDPC, Blake is investigating the impacts of China's Belt and Road Initiative on biodiversity and indigenous peoples. References: Blake Alexander Simmons, Rebecca Ray, Yang H, Kevin P. Gallagher, "China can help solve the debt and environmental crises," Science (80), 21 January 2021, at https://doi.org/10.1126/science.abf4049, or https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6528/468. Time stamps for our discussion: 2:33 – How could China use debt for nature swaps and what's the model? 2:50 – China is world's largest low-income bilateral creditor. Countries are struggling to repay given Covid. 4:00 – Relieving a portion of debt in exchange for climate protection. Science paper lists which are best countries for this solution. 4:45 – Three economic trends: capital flight, currency volatility, and drop in trade. All challenge debt repayment and capital investment. If countries can't make repayments anyway, shared goals are a way to renegotiate commitments without default. 6:00 – China has been at the forefront of debt relief for poorest countries. 6:30 – How does this affect China's position as a creditor? 7:00 – China's debt portfolio highly concentrated in a few countries. China has an interest in restructuring with these countries because of the long-term diplomatic and economic relationships—Venezuela as an example. 8:15 – What's the difference of a debt-for-nature and debt-for-climate swap? 10:00 – History and examples of debt-for-nature swaps, going back to 1980s and 1990s. WWF pioneered, Ecuador was an early case. Third parties like WWF or the Nature Conservancy would pay for a portion of outstanding debts in exchange for conservation policies. 11:30 – Example of bilateral debt-for-nature swaps. Early cases of debt-for-climate. 12:50 – Example of the Seychelles and the marine protected areas. 14:00 – Nature-performance-linked-bonds. Examples of Ecuador and Argentina proposals. 17:30 – How does enforcement work? Are there standards? 19:00 – Inclusion of local communities in enforcement versus top-down goal-setting and monitoring. 23:00 – Announcements that could come from CBD COP. Discussions with CCICED. 25:30 – Expectations about green finance for nature. 28:00 – Why China still financing coal projects and whether that contradicts the idea of debt-for-climate swaps.

Today, we're talking about climate litigation against private companies and the implications for China. We have recently seen the burgeoning of climate-related law-suits, including earlier ones such as Kivalina v. ExxonMobil in 2009, and more recent cases in Norway against oil drilling in the Arctic, and the case of New York City v. Chevron. There's also an on-going case against BP in the UK right now filed by ClientEarth UK. In today's podcast, we'll discuss the case in the Netherlands brought by Friends of the Earth against Royal Dutch Shell. On May 26, the court ordered Shell to reduce its CO2 emissions by 45% by 2030 (with 2019 as a base level). The court stated that Shell's climate policies were "not concrete and are full of conditions...that's not enough." This is a second monumental verdict issued by the district court in the Hague, after the Urgenda Case, brought by the Urgenda Foundation and Dutch citizens against the government of the Netherlands, which was decided in 2018. Today we have two guests from ClientEarth China to talk about this judgement and issues beyond: Dimitri de Boer and Boya Jiang. Dimitri de Boer is the head of ClientEarth China, one of China's most prominent environmental cooperation experts. Before joining ClientEarth, He previously led the EU – China Environmental Governance Programme from 2010 to 2015. Dimitri worked as senior adviser on environment and climate change for the United Nations Industrial Development Organization in China for 12 years. He also worked as a consultant for the World Bank, European Union, and the Chinese government. Dimitri volunteers as vice-chairman of the Board of China Carbon Forum, an independent platform which aims to foster trust and cooperation among China's stakeholders for climate action. Boya Jiang is the Nature and Climate Lawyer at ClientEarth, a charity focusing on advancing environmental governance and rule of law. Boya is a legal expert and she holds a Magis Juris degree in law from the University of Oxford. At present, Boya is focusing on how to promote the environmental rule of law to help resolve issues related to biodiversity and climate change. For further reading: Jason Bordoff, "Why Shaking Up Big Oil Could Be a Pyrrhic Victory," Foreign Policy, 3 June 2021, at https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/03/big-oil-shell-exxon-chevron-emissions-climate-change-production-supply-demand-cuts-risks/ Background from Reuters on the Shell case: https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/dutch-court-orders-shell-set-tougher-climate-targets-2021-05-26/ Background on the BP case: https://climate-laws.org/litigation_cases?b_party_type%5B%5D=corporation&b_party_type%5B%5D=individual_corporation&side_b%5B%5D=BP Background on how the Shell case relates to recent shareholder action at ExxonMobil and Chevron: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/energy/climate-activists-score-wins-against-exxon-shell-chevron-n1268705 Background on the Norwegian Arctic case: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-oil-environment-idUSKBN1ZM1A6 IEA reports on the oil and gas industry and need for transition: https://www.iea.org/reports/the-oil-and-gas-industry-in-energy-transitions

Today we are having a wide-ranging discussion with Faye Lu of the China Youth Climate Change Action Network, where we explore her work on a forthcoming film about climate that traces the route of early human migration out of Africa, and about her work with Celu Studios on the issue of bird collisions. We are also joined by BEN member and organizer Melanie Coerver. See videos of the bird-safe UV glass, which is perfectly transparent in visible light, but can be seen by birds: https://twitter.com/derznovich/status/1401369742036770816 https://twitter.com/derznovich/status/1401369964074790912 Faye LU is the Deputy Secretary-General of China Youth Climate Change Action Network (CYCAN), responsible for institutional strategic planning. She launched Work for Good, a sustainable employment platform for young people. She initiated nationwide research, communication, and action on bird collisions in China, in order to help protect biodiversity in cities. She is the co-founder of CELU Studio, an international art and design studio focused on addressing environmental issues through art and technology. In 2019, she travelled by retracing the early human migration route, starting in East Africa and moving through North Africa, Middle East, Europe, and South Asia. Along the route, she made a documentary and art pieces recording the impact of climate change, as well as possible solutions. Her works have been exhibited in the London Art Pavilion and Beijing UCCA art center. Prior to that, Faye worked as vice president of New Hope Group Southeast Asia headquarters. She has master's degrees in financial management, business, and development economics. Here are some key time-stamps for the program: 3:10 - About the trip out of Africa 4:30 - Stories of how climate change intersects with the lives of regular people in Kenya near Lake Victoria 6:40 - Positive examples of people in Kenya taking action on solving problems brought on by climate change 8:14 - How to communicate positively on climate for younger Chinese audiences 13:10 - How to bear witness to climate change 16:00 - Intro to the problem of bird collisions 20:30 - How to solve the problem of bird collisions 21:00 - Bird-safe glass 22:15 - A 500-person network to record bird collisions in China 23:00 - How art can help communicate the issue of bird collision while also protecting birds, through transparent but bird-safe window glass with UV designs 24:40 - UV pens and stickers 25:00 - Government actions 26:12 - What's next for the film