The Resilient Recruiter

Imagine if instead of placing one person at a time, you were able to recruit a whole team and enjoy correspondingly bigger deal values. I always thought team moves were rare opportunities that you might come across once in a blue moon - if you’re lucky. That was until I met my special guest Harlan Friedman.  Harlan has developed a process for “lift outs” and has moved teams multiple times in his career.  Through experience, he understands the nuances of how to put these complex deals together.  Sometimes instead of recruiting an intact team, Harlan creates a “dream team” and places them together at a client company.  In this episode, you’ll hear Harlans’ tips and advice on how to strategically move teams. Plus, be inspired when you hear Harlan’s remarkable story of how he joined the search industry at age 55 with $300,000 in debt. Listen to how he turned his finances around within 18 months by becoming a consistent top producer before eventually building his own search firm.    Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] It is never too late! Hear Harlan’s remarkable story and how he joined the recruitment industry at age 55. [8:39] Differentiating factor and secret to Harlan’s success. [11:10] Best practices: reaching hard to reach clients using targeted emails and opportunistic hiring. [19:07] The effectiveness of addressing your candidate or client’s biggest concerns. [23:50] The key to being a good recruiter: don’t try to sell anybody anything. [27:40] How Harlan works in a very disciplined way. [32:19] Why take calls from individuals that you may not be able to place? [35:00] Team moves versus individual hires - how to recruit teams or even create them. [46:56] Harlan’s proudest accomplishment in the last 10 years. Fascinating Story of How Harlan Started His Recruitment Career One fascinating story about Harlan is he actually started in the search business in 2011, he was in debt and 55 years old. Harlan had enjoyed a very successful career as a public finance banker.  However, when the real-estate market crashed, his high six-figure income turned zero overnight. Unfortunately, his wife lost her job around the same time and as the months went by with no job offers, they ended up $300,000 in debt.  Harlan’s fortunes changed when he responded to an ad in Craig’s list and persuaded the owner of a small search firm to give him a chance.  With no background in recruiting, Harlan became rookie of the year and the top biller in an office of about 8-10 full time recruiters, enabling him to pay off his debts in 18 months. The Key Success Factor How did Harlan do it? What made him very successful in the recruitment business even if he has no prior experience? This is how he puts it, “I think the number one answer is I am very coachable.” He shared the story of how he was inspired by a shoe salesman becoming a top salesperson of the company (you need to hear this one from Harlan). He also mentioned how discipline plays a key role in his daily routine. Selling by Not Selling - “Don’t Sell Anybody Anything” Another remarkable takeaway from our conversation is Harlan’s perspective on reaching out to clients. He focuses on what their concerns are -- not on how he will get the deal. “I don’t try to sell anybody anything. That’s the key to being a good recruiter, don’t sell. Because if they think you are selling, you have nothing.”  Harlan revealed how he came up with his own system as he adapted to the industry. Below are some key pointers: Not presenting the offer unless you know it’s going to be accepted. Being extremely disciplined everyday when he steps into his office. Write a blog once a week - he creates a blog which is like a journal of what he learned the previous week and sends it to everyone in his database. Successful Team Moves As a recruiter or a business owner, how often have you successfully completed a project on which you moved a whole team instead of just one candidate? This is not something we encounter very often, and when it does happen, it tends to be opportunistic rather than strategic. In Harlan’s case, he’s developed a repeatable process for “lift outs” and he actively looks for these types of situations.  According to Harlan, “The key to working with teams is a hundred percent mindset.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Harlan Friedman Bio and Contact Info Harlan is the Founder & Principal of H. Friedman Search - responsible for all recruiting of Municipal Finance Bankers, Advisors & Bond Counsel.  Harlan’s recruiting efforts result in sole sourcing of both candidates and companies within the area of banking, finance & law.  He oversees all recruiting nationwide representing both Regional and Super Regional Investment Banking firms and  Regional and National Law Firms. He is tasked with the responsibility for overseeing and managing all aspects of client and candidate relationships from initial interview to transition.   He has been instrumental in sourcing, presenting, negotiating and closing candidates.   Harlan earned Rookie of the Year, his first complete year in the business as well as becoming a 2012 - 2018 President's Club member.  Over his tenure at both Armstrong Financial Group & Novum Group  which is eight  years in the industry he has recruited over 85 individuals and teams throughout the United States.  In 2018, Harlan was admitted into the Pinnacle Society, an elite organization for Top Recruiters in North America. He credits his in-depth knowledge of Public Finance and the Legal arena for his success.  As he is fond of saying, when you know the industry inside and out, senior people welcome the opportunity to have high-level conversations with you. Harlan on LinkedIn Harlan on Facebook H. Friedman Search website link People and Resources Mentioned John Schlegel on LinkedIn  Paul Taaffe on LinkedIn Michelle Parchman on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel TRR#21 The Former CFO Turned Finance Recruiter Who Billed €4M Last Year, with Paul Taaffe How to Bill Half a Million and Work Less Than 15 Hours a Week, with Michelle Parchman   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Exploring new markets can be really exciting especially if you’re considering international expansion. But as much as opening offices in a new territory can present big potential for growth, it can also present an enormous amount of challenges. That is what my special guest, Rob Green, will be sharing in this episode. Rob has built recruitment teams across Europe, Asia, North America, Australia, and Africa.  Despite some significant successes, it was never a walk in the park. In this interview, Rob shared both the  mistakes and learnings he gained. Rob has almost two decades of experience in the recruitment industry, recruiting lawyers in 40 countries. He launched his career in London with Badenoch & Clark. Since then he has worked and lived in various locations around the globe. In 2014, he took over the Hong Kong branch of his company, rebranded it as GRM Search and won 15 industry awards over 8 years working with the most coveted legal firms, multinational companies and financial institutions in the world. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:49] How Rob and I were first introduced to each other. [4:29] Rob’s colorful recruiting journey in 18 years. [20:30] Challenges and resilience in recruitment during a recession. [27:11] Ego is the Enemy - what ego cost Rob and the valuable learning he had. [29:00] Rob reveals the story behind his biggest challenge by far. [35:49] In hindsight, what would Rob have done differently? [38:07] When growing your business, how fast is ‘too fast’?  [46:53] The value of getting help. [50:00] Rob’s venture in South Africa - achievements and main learnings. Overcoming His Biggest Challenge Rob humbly shared his biggest challenge which took place in 2016 when he started in Hong Kong. Growing to 25 people with expensive offices, high salaries, and high commissions, the business was not sustainable. When local market conditions worsened, he had to scale down the business or go bust.  Within six painful weeks, he had drastically cut his overheads which sent a shock through the HK legal recruitment market. Behind the scenes, he was going through a very tough time because of personal problems which magnified the issues he was having with his business. Rob recalled, “I had grown the business too fast. We had a number of offices that just weren’t profitable. I was trying in many cases to buy my way out of trouble by starting new desks, starting new offices… We just grew too rapidly with the wrong people and the wrong structure.” I certainly admire Rob’s unselfishness in sharing his story. In our conversation, you will hear what steps he took to stabilize his operation in HK while expanding successfully to South Africa. Key Learnings From Mistakes This podcast is called The Resilient Recruiter for a reason, and indeed Rob personifies that quality. He has built teams and offices in Cayman, Hong Kong, Melbourne, Johannesburg and Cape Town, which were all successes. He also expanded to Brisbane, Singapore and Tokyo which he considers as “massive failures''. Rob is happy to talk about the things that he did right as well as sharing the mistakes he made. Here are the takeaways of what he shared: Having the right people  Having the right compensation plan Having a sound structure Understanding the culture of your market, building the market and creating the demand Try to put aside your ego The Value of Getting Help One of Rob’s key success factors is getting guidance from others. This is how he put it,  “This is for all business owners for recruitment - get help!” Rob believes that you can learn a lot from fellow business owners as well as professional coaches. The key is to have a growth mindset, be receptive to feedback, open to new ideas and focused on constant improvement. As the expression goes, “you don’t know what you don’t know.” Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Rob Green Bio and Contact Info With almost two decades’ experience in the recruitment industry, Rob has recruited lawyers in 40 countries, working with firms and companies from the biggest in DLA Piper, Bank of America, Facebook, Alibaba, and such like, to small one-person law firms, looking to double in size. Rob launched his career with leading financial services agency, Badenoch & Clark, in London. Following his relocation to the Cayman Islands in 2005, he joined one of the Caribbean's top recruitment companies, CML, to establish the region’s leading legal recruitment provider. In 2009, Rob became a partner in the business and moved to Hong Kong to grow the business and become one of the top consultancies in Asia. He took full ownership of the Hong Kong branch and rebranded as GRM Search in 2013, winning 15 industry awards in 8 years and working with some of the most coveted legal firms, MNCs, and financial institutions in the world. Enticed by the link between Africa and Asia, Rob opened GRM Search’s first office in South Africa in Johannesburg during 2014. He moved with his family to settle in Cape Town and spearhead the growth of the business into the African continent in 2017. GRM has had notable successes in Asia, Africa and Australia, with some failures along the way to keep him humble. Rob regularly shares his views on the legal job market with industry publications, business radio shows, HR seminars, and law graduates at HKU, Stellenbosch University, and UWC. He is renowned for his global outlook, experience, legal market knowledge, and down-to-earth approach. In his spare time, Rob is the proud founder and chairman of South Africa’s first soccer programme for special needs children (GPS Vikings FC) and a part time boxing ring announcer as well as a doting father and husband. Rob on LinkedIn Rob on Instagram GRM Search website link  GRM Intelligence website link GRM Group on YouTube People and Resources Mentioned Rob’s podcast - Welcome to My House Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs TRR#64The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

For a lot of recruitment business owners, going to the next level and scaling their business can present unexpected challenges. But no matter how difficult you’re finding it to grow your recruitment business, I hope today’s episode will inspire you to never give up! My special guest, Edward Chamberlain, shared that by far his biggest challenge was scaling the business. In this episode, he shared how he was able to overcome a lot of obstacles you may also be facing now and build a really successful recruitment business from scratch, with no external investment. Ed is a serial entrepreneur and founder of Altus Partners, a market leader in Private Equity search with a team of 30 people. Ed also co-founded C&C search with his sister Lucy, an HR and business support recruiting firm. Both of these firms generate multi-million pounds in revenue. Previously, Ed was a founding member of Investigo (a Virgin fast-track business), which grew from a team of 4 to over 250 people, before its sale. He recently launched Stryve, an ATS that can help SMEs grow their businesses faster. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:52] A serial entrepreneur: Ed reveals how he started Altus Partners. [3:41] What is the ‘hybrid search’ model? [7:57] What is the map and track approach? [10:08] Enhancing your selection process with the Hogan Psychometric Evaluation. [12:16] Ed’s biggest challenge and lessons learned.  [22:28] What a robust People Plan looks like. [24:28] Two keys to replicating your effectiveness as a recruiter to your whole team. [27:51] Why Ed believes that retained recruiting is the best approach in favor of the client. [33:17] Good business books recommended by Ed. [37:10] Ed’s advice to recruitment business owners who want to scale their business. [45:47] Recruiting and building a community of like-minded people . [51:49] Training as a key pillar of the business during the pandemic. [56:54] What motivated Ed to create their own ATS (Applicant Tracking System). Innovative Tools to Add Rigor to the Process As we talked about best practices, one thing I noticed is how Ed is constantly innovating and striving to add rigor to the recruiting process on behalf of the client. Ed breaks down his unique search methodology and highlights a few of the key elements:  The Hybrid Search model The Map and Track approach Creating an Applicant Tracking System (ATS) The Hogan Psychometric evaluation tool You will definitely enjoy learning about how Edward’s focus on constant improvement has helped with client acquisition and scaling his businesses. The Challenge of Scaling A Business Ed is definitely a serial entrepreneur, but you might be surprised that one of the biggest challenges he had to overcome was scaling his business. He was very open about sharing his failures and learnings. You may be able to relate to some of these challenges. You will hear Ed’s advice on how to create a robust People Plan, replicating your effectiveness as a recruiter to your team, and why the retained approach works best for you and the client. Ed’s Advice If You Want to Scale So if there was one key piece of advice he would give to a business owner who wants to scale, what would that be? Ed said, “If you are going to start a recruitment firm, generally speaking you are going to be a salesperson or recruiter before that. Inherently what goes hand in hand in that is individuals that don’t like planning and often don’t like the administration piece. The bit of advice I would give to anyone is to make sure to go back and do that. Put it together, put your finances together, put a really good business plan.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Edward Chamberlain Bio and Contact Info Ed is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Altus Partners and has built an enviable track-record, over many years within Private Equity search. He has placed from Partner to Analyst level with a range of high-profile funds to emerging managers. His guiding principles of honesty and integrity have enabled him to build long-standing, trusted relationships with key figures in the Private Equity industry. Ed graduated with a BA Hons in Architecture before starting his career in Search in 2002. He was a founding member of Investigo (a Virgin fast-track business), which grew from a team of 4 to over 250 people, before its sale. He helped establish another search firm in 2006 (rather this name isn't mentioned ;) One Search) – before identifying a gap in the market and setting up Altus Partners in 2009.  Altus Partners has become a market leader in Private Equity Search and continues to thrive today, placing c-suite professionals into Private Equity Backed Companies and also Investment Professionals into the funds themselves. Further to this he co-founded C&C Search with his sister in 2014, which places HR and Support Staff Professionals and has a training academy (launched to counter the pandemic), which has seen over 5,000 people enroll in their courses and has won corporate training contracts with the likes of Sony, Warner Brothers, Amazon and Campbell Soup.  More latterly, and out of a desire to see small and growing companies recruit better, he launched an ATS - Stryve. He raised seed funding of £500k in March 2021 and launches the Beta product this month! Ed on LinkedIn Altus Partners website link  Altus Partners on Twitter @Altus_Partners Stryve website link  People and Resources Mentioned Joel Slenning on LinkedIn The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencion Work Rules! by Laszlo Bock The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey The Personal MBA by Josh Kaufman Key Person of Influence by Daniel Priestley Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you want your clients to work with you on a retained basis, you need a strong value proposition and an effective sales process.   In this episode, my special guest, Chris Schoettelkotte, gives a masterclass on selling retained search, including how he developed his unique value proposition.  He shares how he transitioned his firm from contingent search to a retained business model. Chris and I discussed in detail why retained search is usually a better solution for the client and how to explain the benefits.  You’ll even hear us deliver an impromptu training session on how to pitch exclusivity. Chris is the President and Founder of Manhattan Resources, an executive search firm based in Houston. Chris has been incredibly successful in the search business and he’s consistently one of the top recruiters in the United States. In his best year, Chris collected $2.3M dollars in placement fees -- that’s personal production not including his team’s billings. In this interview, you’ll discover what it takes to perform at the highest level in our industry. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:40] From a career as a corporate executive to starting an executive search firm -- how and why Chris got into the business. [7:39] Developing a powerful Value Proposition -- how Manhattan Resources differentiates their service from other search firms. [13:30] The secret to converting 95% of Manhattan Resources’ clients into repeat customers.  [23:25] Why Chris isn’t concerned about the risk of flying to meet a potential client and then not getting the business. [26:10] Transitioning contingent clients to retained search, how did Chris do it? [31:41] Why the contingent model can actually work against the client due to compromised quality. [39:26] Best practices for pre-qualifying a client. [45:31] Chris’s recent example of dealing with a challenging client and why he had to be really transparent in giving feedback. [51:23] Two things that all recruiters need to understand. [55:06] What does it take to be truly excellent in the recruitment business? [1:00:41] At this stage in Chris’ career, what motivates him to keep doing what he does? How Manhattan Partners Convert 95% of Their Clients Into Repeat Customers On top of being ranked as one of Houston’s top search firms for 18 straight years, another outstanding feat of Manhattan Resources is having a minimum 95% of clients becoming repeat customers. What is their secret? Chris shared, “It is all about investing in long term relationships.”  For Chris, this means having the proper value proposition for your clients and candidates as well as going above and beyond what is expected. He shared how his approach works for most of his clients - jumping on a flight and visiting every potential client to get to know them. “There is not a time where the client said, ‘Hey you’re in Houston, I’m in New Jersey, and we want to hire you, you don’t need to come.’ Yes we do. So we are going to get on a plane, we are going to fly to New Jersey, we are going to get a hotel, we are going to spend a couple of days in your office, I want to interview all the stakeholders involved in this position… At the end of this before I get back on a plane I am going to go to whoever the primary stakeholder is… I’m going to say, this is what I know...” Isn’t it risky to invest time and money up front? What if the deal doesn’t materialize?  Chris admitted this can sometimes happen, and shared a couple of actual experiences.  But this is immaterial compared to the relationship built and the long term benefits produced. How to Sell Exclusivity Manhattan Resources started out as a contingent search firm because, in Chris’s words, he simply didn’t know any better at the time.  However, they quickly evolved into a retained executive search business.  Chris explains how and why they switched to the retained model not just because it’s more profitable, but also because it benefits the client as well. In this part of our conversation, you will hear verbiage that you can use to sell the true benefit of retained search. Chris indeed shared how he was able to convert his contingent clients into embracing the retained approach.  The Two Things All Recruiters Must Understand Another golden nugget of wisdom shared is the two things all recruiters must understand: Everytime you place somebody, that’s a relationship that you should never, ever let go. When you complete a search, all those people you didn’t place, you should follow up with them, thank them, and continue to build a relationship with them. Chris further elaborated on the second point, which is actually a brilliant approach in establishing a potential business relationship in the future. What Does it Take to be Successful in Recruitment? Chris’ longevity and accomplishments in the recruitment industry gives him credibility to give advice on what it takes to be successful in this business. He mentioned insightful advice and here are some takeaways: Mental agility Approaching recruitment as a profession Building your brand of excellence Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Chris Schoettelkotte Bio and Contact Info Chris Schoettelkotte founded Manhattan Resources in 1999 after serving in various leadership positions with Union Pacific, Olsten Corporation and Corporate Express.  His background in business strategy, integration, high performance team development and business turnarounds in both corporate and private equity environments uniquely prepared Chris to look at Executive Search differently.  Chris determined from the beginning that the value proposition in the search industry wasn’t strong enough or aligned properly with the needs of the client.  Building and refining a robust and transparent search process that enables our client’s to make strategic hiring decisions confidently has always been his primary focus.   Chris believes that helping our clients build high performance teams is our mission.  We do this by working with our clients to understand our client’s business and the specific needs of the team.  We work with our clients to fill the intellectual capital needs of the team while carefully keeping in mind the individual cultures of our client companies.  Chris has his B.A. in Business from Western Illinois University and his MBA in International Business from the University of Houston Bauer College of Business.  Chris enjoys coaching Boys Varsity Basketball in Houston, Texas where he resides with his wife Anna and their four children. Chris on LinkedIn Manhattan Resources website link Manhattan Resources on Facebook Manhattan Resources on Instagram Manhattan Resources on Twitter @MR_ExecSearch People and Resources Mentioned Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you enjoy listening to the Resilient Recruiter podcast, I have a special treat for you. In this episode, I am collaborating with fellow podcaster, Hishem Azzouz, host of the Recruitment Mentors podcast. Between us, Hishem and I have interviewed hundreds of recruitment business owners. We decided to compare notes and discuss the key factors that the most successful recruitment companies share in common. We both came up with five things, so you are about to hear the top ten success factors for growing your business.  Episode Outline and Highlights [4:06]  Willingness to seek help. [6:56] Niche market specialization. [12:33] Don’t romanticize what worked in the past. [18:33] The ability to attract and retain top recruiters. [22:35] Investing just as much into keeping people as hiring people. [26:22] Serious commitment to talent development and career progression within your organization. [30:17] Having a compelling vision for your company. [34:20] Developing your culture. [39:43] Humility. [43:18] Investing in marketing. The Top Ten Success Factors for Growing Your Recruitment Business Willingness to seek help. Hishem stated, “A common hindsight learning that I hear sometimes from recruitment business leaders that have gone on to do really well, when I ask them things like ‘What would you do differently’ or ‘If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say?’, a real common answer is they would have asked for help more quickly.”   Niche market specialization.  The vast majority of the firm owners I’ve interviewed or worked with who have been the most successful are specialists in a particular field. Hear the reasons why focusing on a particular niche is building your marketplace rather than limiting it. Don’t romanticize what worked in the past.  Being open-minded to trying new things, learning, and getting out of your comfort zone are qualities that make a successful recruitment leader. Successful leaders do not romanticize what worked for them 10 or 15 years ago. They are always thinking, learning, and trying to understand what more they could be doing. The ability to attract and retain top recruiters.  Internal recruitment strategy is critical. The companies that scale are really good at recruiting recruiters. In contrast, the companies that  remain small may not be able to figure that important piece out.  Investing just as much into keeping people as hiring people.  Investing heavily in talent development is an important key to scaling your business. Having a mindset of nurturing current employees is a successful recruiter leader’s way of thinking. Serious commitment to talent development and career progression within your organization.  Complementary with the above previous points mentioned, having a serious commitment to establishing a career ladder within your organization is key to growing your business. Hishem added, “I’ve been interviewing people in their first year in recruitment, second year in recruitment, and they are all people who have graduated in the last two years. I just ask them a direct question like, ‘what type of company are you excited to work for?’ The number one thing is progression. Having a compelling vision for the company.   Genuinely, most scaling recruitment agencies that you may know in the market are guaranteed to have clarity on what they want and where they are going. This inspires confidence in your existing team members and attracts great people to join your company. Developing your culture.  The question is have you designed your culture? Or do you just have a culture by default? The most important defining feature of the culture comes down to the values. Humility.  “For me personally in my own experience, most recruitment business leaders I speak to have humility in abundance,” explained Hishem. This enables leaders to have an open mind to learn and grow.  Investing in marketing.  Recruiting is a sales business, and like my friend Greg Savage says, your sixth, or seventh hire should be a full-time marketing person. Visibility as a thought leader and someone who adds value to your industry is ultimately good for business. Investing in marketing is significant to achieve this goal. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Hishem Azzouz Bio and Contact Info An underperforming recruiter that turned his fortunes 180 degrees in six months using the power of personal branding and the launch of the Recruitment Mentors podcast. Over 100 episodes, and 20,000 monthly listeners later he founded Azzouz Branding to help recruiters leverage personal branding & social selling. He helped 200+ agencies and consultants build their brands. Recruitment Mentors is the brainchild of Hishem Azzouz. Hishem on LinkedIn Recruitment Mentors podcast link Recruitment Mentors website link People and Resources Mentioned Michael Young on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn James Fernandes on LinkedIn Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday Greg Savage on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

When you started in your recruitment career, how long did you visualize yourself doing this for? Many recruiters get into this profession because of the earning potential but don’t necessarily see recruiting as a long-term career.  There’s no question that recruitment is challenging. The failure rate among rookie recruiters is high and many experienced recruiters suffer from burnout. Is it possible to make recruitment a rewarding career for the long term? My special guest, Michael Goldman, is an example of someone who has enjoyed longevity and sustained success in recruitment.  Michael started his recruitment career in 1980 and founded his own firm, Strategic Associates, in 1988. Michael has built an excellent reputation as an executive recruiter in manufacturing and supply chain nationwide, in both contingency and retained basis. He is a Founding Member and former President of the Pinnacle Society. Having run a successful desk for over 40 years, and being consistently a top producer, he also speaks on, and enjoys teaching, recruiting tactics and strategies to recruiters globally. In this episode, Michael shares his passion, learning, and what makes his recruitment career a fulfilling and rewarding path. Episode Outline and Highlights [4:22] Michael’s story on how he got into recruiting in the 80’s. [7:54] The 3 keys to long term success and fulfilment as a recruiter [10:42] Understanding the value you bring to clients and candidates.  [17:48] How to become a "career conciliere" rather than just a "resume traffic cop" [26:22] The power question to ask your client to engage them. [29:01] Trying to convert a contingent client to a retainer: what are the best selling points? [40:00] In his 40 years in the industry, what is the biggest challenge that Michael has faced? [44:28] Michael reveals a quote he cut out of a newspaper years ago that drives him to this day. [48:13] Michael's recruitment solo practice. The 3 Keys to Long Term Success and Fulfilment as a Recruiter Successfully running his desk as a consistent top biller for 40 years, I wanted to ask Michael on what can young recruiters learn from a seasoned veteran like him. He responded, “understand what it means to bring value.” MIchael is passionate about helping recruiters develop themselves as "counseling" rather than "transactional" recruiters. He has helped a lot of recruiters, candidates, and clients as well as changed people’s lives with this clear mission of bringing value. He further expanded on what this means and outlined three keys: Understanding the purpose of your business Understanding what value you could bring  Understanding how to influence people rather than “sell, sell, sell.” What It Means to Add Value What does it mean to add value as a recruiter? Michael explained, “Providing expertise, a counsel to help guide people not just on where they want to get to from point A to point Z. But how to put tools and tactics and strategies together to get to that point. We are not about just transactionally being traffic cops and sending out resumes and setting up interviews. The better among us, the most self-fulfilled among us are ones that can tap into what will help motivate people for success. It is not just on the candidate’s side it is on the client’s side too.” I absolutely agree with this mindset. Recruiting is indeed not about being too transactional as engaging with your stakeholders and motivating them. I believe this approach is the secret to Michael’s longevity in this industry. Why Michael Does Things that Scare Him Michael shared a fantastic quote from the Founder of Southwest Airlines: “I love to do things that scare me because without fear there is no courage.”  He cut this quote out of a newspaper years ago and it’s wisdom drives him to this day. This philosophy has helped Michael face challenges, adapt to changes and always stay out of his comfort zone. Do you have a favourite motivational quote you can share? Let me know in the comments below! Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Michael Goldman Bio and Contact Info Since 1980, both in his native New York and Austin, Texas, Michael Goldman has cultivated a respected reputation for achievement in nationwide manufacturing/supply chain executive recruitment on both a contingency and retained basis. In 1988, he founded Strategic Associates with the purpose of creating a highly specialized firm encompassing talent in the areas of supply chain, procurement, quality/regulatory affairs and operations (plant and corporate).  Clients span industries from medical devices to consumer packaged goods to industrial to high technology products–from perishable goods to durable–from food products to computers and personal communication devices to biomedical technology to capital equipment. They are from Fortune 500 and 50 to mid-sized privately-held firms.    Michael is an original Founding Member of the Pinnacle Society and, from 1991 to 1995, served two consecutive terms as its second president.  He was awarded the Honorary Lifetime Membership in recognition of both his accomplishments in recruiting and service to Pinnacle.  In addition, he has earned his CPC through the National Association of Personnel Services.    Along with continuously maintaining his consistent success as a “desk-running” recruiter for over 40 years (and currently), Michael also speaks on and teaches domestically and internationally advanced and basic recruiting tactics and strategies. He has been requested to provide grass-roots recruitment seminars and speaking engagements to American state and national organizations as well as international audiences. To date he has personally educated recruitment professionals in the US, Ireland, England and South Africa.  In addition, he has conducted webinars for state recruiting organizations and Pinnacle Society meetings and Pinnacle Panel events. Michael on LinkedIn Michael’s website link People and Resources Mentioned John Schlegel on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Jeff Herzog on LinkedIn Danny Cahill on LinkedIn Paul Hickey on LinkedIn The E-Myth by Michael Gerber Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning TRR#71 How to Build a Successful Executive Search Business While Running Your Own Desk, with Jeff Herzog TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Starting a recruitment business isn’t easy. Scaling a recruitment business is even harder, as evidenced by the fact that 73% of recruitment companies never grow beyond 10 employees.  Selling a recruitment business is rare indeed -- according to BDO there are only 20-40 M&A deals done per year in the UK recruitment sector.   Accomplishing all of this in 7 years while still in your 30’s is practically unheard of.  Yet that’s exactly what my special guest, Karla Reffold, has achieved. I had so much fun interviewing Karla about her entrepreneurial journey as a young, female founder.  She shared the challenges she faced and the crazy ups and downs she experienced.  You’ll hear what she learned from having founded, scaled and sold her recruitment business in the tech space -- traditionally a male-dominated sector. Karla founded the international recruitment business, BeecherMadden in 2010 before overseeing the acquisition by Nicoll Curtin. In 2020 she joined Orpheus Cyber as COO. Karla is also an experienced speaker on cyber security and was included in SC Magazine’s Top 50 Women in Security in 2019. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:57] Karla talks about how she launched, scaled, and sold her recruitment business at a young age. [6:01] When should you expand? Karla’s trigger for making your next hire. [11:10] How Karla established a foundation for growth during the first 12 months. [15:40] Hear how the “Green Flag System” helped Karla’s business to consistently grow. [19:00] Best practices to be successful in winning business. [26:08] Hiring based on values, developing your company values and assessing talent against them. [28:00] Resilience when things don’t go your way - Karla shared the key challenges she encountered while growing her startup recruitment business.  [32:40] Karla reveals why she decided to expand to the US and what she learned from opening an office in New York. [46:30] When is the right time to exit and sell your business? [54:22] Challenges of being a young female founder in the tech space. Increase Your Success in Winning Businesses A critical part of Karla’s success as a founder is how she consistently wins businesses which immensely contributed to her company’s growth. What are the keys to increasing your success in winning clients? Karla shared at least three. Invest in marketing and branding. BeecherMadden created a salary survey which they leveraged to get publicity and appointments with key prospects. She also set up internship programs to create a strong social media presence, which in turn launched marketing careers for her interns.  Speaking engagements. Karla would speak at every industry event she could, persuading event organizers to give her an opportunity. Her expertise in tech enabled her to share meaningful insights and these speaking engagements helped to make the BeecherMadden brand dominant in the cyber security market.  People. As a team, they really focused on business development and Karla gives credit to the hard work her team put in. Confidence. Something that really stood out to me was Karla’s confidence, which she explained is something she’s always had. Her upbringing played an important part in her envisioning success and knowing that she can do anything she puts her mind into. What if Things Don’t Go Your Way? As a young founder, things wobbled a bit when she was expanding quickly. In fact, she believed that one of her learnings as a business owner is that growing too quickly can create a lot of problems. Another huge challenge is stepping back from the day to day management, which she attempted to do after her second child was born. Karla told me the story of hiring a Managing Director to run the business while she was on maternity leave, which turned out to be a disaster.  Listen to how she was able to get things back on track after this major setback. Hear her other stories as well as her key learnings on never underestimating her value. If you are a business owner or someone who is just starting, you may find this one truly relevant. Careers Beyond Recruitment - Becoming a Senior Executive in the Tech Space Karla is now a COO at Orpheus, a leading cyber threat intelligence and cyber risk rating company and is respected in her industry. Unfortunately, that respect wasn’t always there. What were the challenges she faced as a young woman in tech? Karla recalled, “I was in my 20’s when I started... I remember people would literally say things like, “you’re very young aren’t you?” Fortunately, Karla believes the industry has changed for the better and the tech space is gradually becoming more diverse.  In 2020, Karla transitioned from the recruitment industry to cyber security, which brings a new set of challenges. One question she now gets asked is “Wow, how does a recruiter become a COO?” Her response: “I founded a 7-figure business and sold it for a really decent multiple - that’s how.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Karla Reffold Bio and Contact Info An experienced business owner and leader, Karla is passionate about values-led leadership and people development. Karla founded the international recruitment business, BeecherMadden in 2010 before overseeing the acquisition by Nicoll Curtin. In 2020 she joined Orpheus Cyber as COO. Orpheus is a threat intelligence company with a SAAS platform that helps organisations manage their own risk, and that of their third parties, with an easy-to-understand cyber risk score.  Karla is an industry awards judge, the host of industry interviews on the Cyber Talks media platform and the Zero Hour Podcast. She is also an experienced speaker, on the topic of cyber security and women in technology.  Karla was included in SC Magazine’s Top 50 Women in Security in 2019. She was a finalist at the Women of the Future awards in 2016, for Entrepreneur of the Year and a finalist in The Future Ladies Awards for Mentor of the Year in 2019. Karla’s website link Karla on LinkedIn Karla on Instagram Karla on Twitter @karla_reffold Orpheus Cyber website link People and Resources Mentioned Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#66 How to Grow Your Recruitment Business by Hiring Top Recruiters, with Leanne Sara Jones Hunt   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

One of the common factors that fast-growing recruitment companies share is that they invest in their people. To attract great recruiters, maximize their performance and retain them as pillars upon which you can build your business, you need a solid career development program in place including excellent training and development. What does a world-class talent development program look like? I can’t think of anyone better qualified to answer that question than my special guest, Ann Swain. Ann is the Global CEO of APSCo, an international trade body representing the recruitment sector with operations in the UK, Germany, Singapore, and Australia. Ann has over 30 years’ recruitment experience, and co-authored the best-selling Professional Recruiter’s Handbook.  Episode Outline and Highlights [1:10] An easy and inexpensive way to way to begin training your new recruiters. [7:57] Brief introduction to APSCo (Association of Professional Staffing Companies). [11:45] Talent development and making recruitment a real profession. [18:34] What does a world-class talent development program look like? [26:45] What can we do in the recruitment sector to create pathways for more women to the top? [31:49] Culture by design - what should business owners consider when designing the culture of their workplace? [35:08] Trends, opportunities and challenges for recruiters post-COVID. [46:06] Planning to expand internationally? Factors to consider.  What Does A World-Class Talent Development Program Look Like? Ann is passionate about talent development and making the recruitment sector into the profession it deserves to be. The two are interrelated, and should be brought together in order to maximize your team’s performance and attract great people. With over 30 years’ career in recruitment and global talent development, what does a world-class career and talent development program look like for Ann? She laid out the following pointers: Training shouldn’t stop once someone completes their induction / onboarding. It should be a career long program. Utilize both internal and external resources when creating a development program. It should be organized and have flexibility, avoiding a cookie-cutter approach. Should be a mix of online training and face to face delivery. Be creative - don’t focus purely on skills development. “The recruitment market should start looking at personal development rather than just skills-based training.” The benefits of a mentoring program. To conclude, Ann said, “I think from a development program, it goes beyond training, it goes to mentoring, it goes to personal development across the board in things that are not only about recruitment and skill sets necessary, but as an individual - how you can grow throughout your career.”  Creating Pathways to Greater Diversity Working my way through Recruiter Magazine’s Hot 100 List, I noticed that there are only around six women on the list of Founders and CEOs, which I thought as an industry we could do better. I took this chance to ask Ann, as someone who made it to the C-suite, what she believes we can do to create pathways for more women to the top. She shared a very interesting insight.  Ann said, “I’ve been involved in ‘Women in Recruitment’ for a very long period of time and we have done research every year, to see whether that figure has changed. It hasn’t changed enough and there are definitely things we can do.” One of the things they found is that “we lose women from the recruitment market, not all of them but a big percentage.” And what could be the reason? Cultural fit. Listen to how Ann further elaborated this aspect and how we can do better as a sector in terms of gender balance and diversity. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Ann Swain Bio and Contact Info Ann Swain is the Global CEO of APSCo, an international trade body representing the professional recruitment sector with operations in the UK, Germany, Singapore and Australia. Ann has over 30 years’ recruitment experience and is co-author of the best-selling Professional Recruiter’s Handbook. In 2009, she was honoured to receive a fellowship from the NSPCC and in 2014 she joined the Executive Committee of Women in Recruitment. In 2018, Ann received the prestigious Leadership Award from the Trader Association Forum and features in Staffing Industry Analysts Global Power List of the most influential women in professional recruitment.  An acknowledged thought leader, Ann features regularly in the national, HR, business and recruitment media and is a popular platform speaker at conferences around the world. Ann on LinkedIn Ann on Twitter @AnnAPSCo APSCo website link APSCo on Facebook APSCo on Instagram People and Resources Mentioned The Professional Recruiter's Handbook: Delivering Excellence in Recruitment Practice Plamen Ivanoff on LinkedIn Jane Newell Brown on LinkedIn Women in Recruitment website link Women in Recruitment on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#43 How to Transition From Contingency CV Supplier to Consultative Retained Recruiter, with Plamen Ivanoff   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

Is it really possible to work less and make more? It seems counter-intuitive and the majority of big billers I know advocate the “hustle and grind” approach. But what if you could work smarter rather than harder?   My special guest, Michelle Parchman, has been doing this for years - billing half a million dollars per annum by working 2 to 3 hours a day. Like me, you will find her thought process revolutionary! Listening to our conversation may move you to revisit your way of working, your values and how you define success. Michelle is originally a CPA and began her public accounting career in auditing with Anderson in Dallas. After 17 years in Big Four public accounting plus seven years with the largest executive search firm in San Antonio, she founded Parchman and Parchman Executive Search in 2009, specializing in accounting, finance, tax, legal and C-level searches. Parchman and Parchman was named by Forbes as one of America’s best recruiting firms and Michelle has been described as one of San Antonio’s Most Inspiring and Influential Women. She is also a Board Director for the Pinnacle Society, the premier consortium of 80 leading recruiters in North America. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:37] Transition from accounting to executive search - Michelle shares her story. [9:50] Putting processes and systems in place to make things happen - what to learn from Indy Race’s refuelling methods.  [12:00] How to accomplish billing half a million and work in less than 15 hours a week - four solid takeaways. [16:54] Why is Michelle working only two to three hours a day? Hear her revolutionary insight. [22:01] Best practices on planning and prioritization - when to do it, how to do it, and thought process. [30:09] Network power and why your network can be your bank account. [34:22] Advice on becoming super efficient. [43:31] How to become a master in a balanced life. [51:00] Why Michelle works exclusively with clients. From Public Accounting to Executive Search Michelle revealed her journey and transition from being a public accountant for 17 years to becoming an owner of an executive search business. If you are just starting your career as a recruiter, you will definitely relate to her story. It was not all rainbows and butterflies, as she also relayed how it was challenging for her at the outset. The recruitment firm she initially worked for did not fully fit with her way of working, which led her to create systems and processes. “It was very challenging in the first six months, I didn’t think that I was going to like it, I didn’t think I was going to succeed, but once I was able to kind of roll up my sleeves and lay out processes like ‘this is how we are going to strategize to get new clients’… It was great!” With her current success, what were really her daily thoughts during the painstaking first six months? “I think I typically persevere and I want to succeed and I am motivated. I’m just not willing to not let this work.” Indeed, an inspiring story for our new recruiters out there, or anyone facing adversity and overwhelm. Bill Half Million and Work Less Than 15 Hours a Week Is it possible to hit half a million dollars in billings by working only 15 hours a week? “It is 100 percent possible, and I have been doing it for years and years,” Michelle confirmed. The foundation is her thought process.  She evaluates and prioritizes all her work activities based on ROI (return on investment). “It is because I look at everything as ROI. So every single thing I do, I think in my head, what is the return on my investment? For me it’s time.  Time and then money. I try to make sure that everything I do is going to take me the least amount of time and give me the highest amount of money.” Some of my key takeaways of our conversation: Thinking about the ROI - not just for money but for your time. “Working closest to the money.” Coming up with the ten most important things to do each day - ranked . Know your values (what’s most important to you) and prioritize accordingly. The Power of Network Another key factor for success that Michelle revealed in our conversation was her network. She said, “I just feel blessed in the sense that I know really smart people.” Her network is based on two foundational principles - relationship building and ethics. Ethics plays a major role when selecting her network. Also knowing that the people she surrounds herself with are so trusted and credentialed, it makes her job really easy when she gets referrals because she knows that they would only refer her people who also have the same level of ethics and professionalism.  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Michelle Parchman Bio and Contact Info Michelle is a Certified Public Accountant and Certified Personnel Consultant. She graduated with distinction from Oklahoma University with a BBA, concentration in accounting. Michelle began her public accounting career in auditing with Andersen in Dallas. During her 17-year successful tenure with Andersen, Michelle worked in Audit, Tax, Business Development, and Recruiting. Michelle has received numerous awards and recognition: Inspiring Woman – San Antonio’s Most Successful Women Forbes recognition for America’s Best Recruiting Firm (selected by Peers and HR). Top Permanent Placement Firm in San Antonio, San Antonio Business Journal, 2011, and every year thereafter. Ranked as Top 25 Texas Recruiter, Texas Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004, and every year beyond, until the Association ceased. Ranked as the #10 Recruiter in Texas, multiple years Rookie of the Year, Texas Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004 #1 Recruiter, San Antonio Association of Personnel Consultants, 2004 and every year beyond, until the Association ceased. Rookie of the Year, San Antonio Association of Personnel Consultants Consultant of the Year, largest search firm in San Antonio, (every year employed) In 2009, Michelle founded Parchman + Parchman, Executive Search Experts, a highly specialized, niche recruiting firm specializing in Accounting, Finance, Tax, Legal, and C-Level searches. The primary function of the firm is to locate and present the best-qualified talent the current market has to offer. Michelle brings more than 20 years collective experience in the recruitment and placement of qualified professionals. Michelle is also Current Board of Director for The Pinnacle Society, the premier Consortium of 80 Industry-Leading Recruiters in North America. Michelle on LinkedIn Parchman + Parchman Executive Search website link People and Resources Mentioned John Schlegel on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Business acquisitions can be a hassle and can present a lot of challenges - especially when it comes to the integration of management, culture, and way of working. My special guest, Ross Eades, believes that as challenging as it may be, strategic acquisitions can effectively lead your business to phenomenal growth! Hear his experience and approach on how he built recruitment powerhouse businesses and how he kept his current organization’s business growing despite the pandemic. Ross is the CEO of RED Commerce, a global leader in placing SAP professionals with 250 employees and six locations around the world. Prior to joining RED Commerce in 2018, Ross was the CEO of Horton Group International - a global executive search and leadership firm with 50 offices in 32 countries. Ross has a phenomenal track record as a CEO within the recruiting and staffing industry. Episode Outline and Highlights Ross shares his journey of building up InterQuest Group PLC - his challenges and key learnings. Increasing the business by 10x in 5 years - four key success factors for such a phenomenal growth rate.  Moving to Horton International - Ross’s enormous undertakings and significant contributions. Strategic planning in growing your business - hear Ross’s key takeaways on the planning process and collaboration. What attracted Ross to join RED and how he steered the organization through the pandemic. Post-pandemic adjustments - what are the learnings that organizations should keep even after things go back to ‘normal’.  What are secrets to attracting and retaining good people for your recruitment business?  Increasing the Business by Ten Times in Five Years One of Ross’s amazing feats when he was with InterQuest was growing the business from 10M to 100M USD in five years. So I had to ask him, what were the key success factors that enabled him to achieve that phenomenal growth rate? Ross responded, “I put a lot of it down to the focus of the teams we had and the businesses we bought in. The idea was to have a selection of specialist teams.” This ‘specialist approach’ contributed highly to the growth and success of InterQuest. Ross also added his thoughts and practices in growing a business through acquisitions. Mainly in three areas: Management Due Diligence Pre-Acquisition Post-Acquisition He also elaborated on the benefits and value of growing through strategic acquisitions. It is not easy to integrate new businesses, so best-practices and learnings from personal experiences to overcome difficulties were shared. Best to hear all these pieces of gems from Ross himself. Steering Through the Pandemic Ross eventually joined RED SAP Solutions. One of his notable accomplishments as CEO is steering the organization to success during the pandemic. The company is still doing an amazing job during the crisis and continues to grow. Were there any things they would have done differently? Ross answered, “I have not given it that much thought to be honest. There isn’t anything… I can’t identify anything that we haven’t done that if I had our time again last year we would have done. I think we were very quick to put the right things in place and to try and protect the business and as many people’s job as we possibly can.”  So now things that are ‘normalizing’, what learnings or changes could organizations adapt to retain post-pandemic? I asked this question to Ross for RED, and his answer was definitely insightful. Hear his thoughts on a hybrid model of working in the office and remotely. Retaining Amazing Talents A key factor when growing your recruitment business is attracting and retaining great talent. This is definitely a challenge, ironically, to the recruitment industry. So if you ask Ross of the secrets in attracting and retaining talent, he mentioned these key factors: Brand Market Career development path Your own growth In this episode, you’ll hear Ross explain these points in detail. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Ross Eades Bio and Contact Info Ross Eades is the Chief Executive Officer of RED Commerce and holds a seat on the RED Board of Directors. Ross joined RED in May 2018, with a wealth of recruitment experience in international blue-chip organisations. He has a successful track record spanning 24 years (as a CEO), creating growth, both organically and via strategic acquisitions, within the technology sector. Prior to assuming the Chief Executive Officer role at RED, Ross held the post of Chief Executive Officer of Horton Group International – a global executive search and leadership firm, with 50 offices in 32 countries. Ross spent several years building Modis Professional Services Group International into a £300m turnover, 800+ staff, European professional services organisation, with key brands Modis and Badenoch & Clark. Ross has taken a private business through an IPO to successful flotation and listing on the London Stock Exchange, as well as achieving a significant trade sale at a premium price.  Previous successes include five years developing InterQuest Group plc from £10m to £100m+ in revenues, achieving all analyst profit expectations and four years completing the turnaround of UK staffing organization, Kellan Group plc. Ross on LinkedIn RED SAP Solutions website link RED SAP Solutions on Twitter @REDSAPSolutions RED SAP Solutions on Facebook RED SAP Solutions on Instagram RED SAP Solutions on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Romney Rawes info Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter