Radio Free Mormon

RFM and Bill Reel tackle the two Hills Cumorah theory. The explain how Cumorah fits within our scriptures, show us how it was understood and taught all through early Church history and when in the modern times it changed and how that course adjustment has the Church approaching it today. To the believers who always wished for these things to be simple and faithful, eat your heartlander out ! IMAGES FOR SHOW https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/collection/bmvl-moroni-10-images?lang=eng OPENING: Heartlanders digging for Evidence (Don’t want to spend valuable time here. Just show and explain it led me to create this episode)A.) What the Scriptures Tell us about Cumorah Mormon 6:4 – we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains – SHOW MAP OF PALMYRA SURROUNDING AREA (It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains.) Mormon 6:6 –  Mormon hid the records in the Hill Cumorah with the exception of the plates that would make up the Book of Mormon PHOTO Ether 15:11 – The Jaredites hill Ramah and the Nephites Hill Cumorah are the same hill (He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.) PHOTO LOGISTICS OF A BATTLE THIS BIG D&C 128:20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed PHOTO B.) What early Church Leaders and Official sources said about The Hill Cumorah in New York History of the Church 1:184 “This Book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him Cumorah, which hill is now in the state of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.   PHOTO 1835 Messenger and Advocate – Page 4 Oliver Cowdery under Joseph Smith declares Cumorah is the hill in New York (Joseph Smith had the letter reprinted )   PHOTO The Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon. History of the Church  History of the Church, 1948 ed., vol. 2, pp. 79–80  PHOTO David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Joseph Smith are visited by Moroni – Moroni says Cumorah as the word is new to David  (Tangential point.  David Whitmer says his plowed was field and he didn’t know who did it.  Lucy Mack Smith though claims David knew it was the three nephites page 4 bottom left) page 4 right hand side  PHOTO Mark E. Petersen, “A Work of Conversion,” General Conference address, in Messages of Inspiration (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1957), pp. 98-106. I do not believe that we should give credence to the highly speculative theories about Book of Mormon geography. I do not believe that there were two Hill Cumorahs, one in Central America and the other one up in New York, for the convenience of the Prophet Joseph Smith, so that the poor boy would not have to walk clear to Central America to get the gold plates. (Last part of Page 3) PHOTO Doctrines of Salvation by: Joseph Fielding Smith http://www.mormonthink.com/backup/Cumorah-JFeS-DofS3.pdf  PHOTO https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=jbms All of the quotes regarding Cumorah’s Cave.  I want to synopsize because there is too much here and deeply overlapping PHOTO Anthony W Ivins (Counselor First Presidency) General Conference talk in April 1928 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zan98tml1mr4kq/conferencereport1928a%20%20page%2015.pdf?dl=0  (Page 12 of the PDF)    PHOTO The Messenger, July 1960, No. 51   (COVER) (Page w/ pertinent section) Bishops “Attention Called To ‘Book of Mormon’ Maps” Our attention has been brought in the past few weeks to certain “Book of Mormon Lands” maps which are being offered to Church leaders and auxiliary workers by a California organization. They are apparently being distributed free of charge. We wish to refer bishops to the printed matter at the bottom of the map, which contains an inference that there are two, rather than one, Hills Cumorah — one in Mexico as well as the one in New York. The Church has never accepted this contention. Bishops are requested to make cognizant of this discrepancy those in their wards who might be sending for these maps or using them for instructional purposes. This concept of two Cumorahs should not be taught as official Church doctrine.(WOULD LOVE A IMAGE OR DOCUMENT) Official Letterhead 1990 Letter F. Michael Watson – Context of that letter (Frank Michael Watson was a secretary to the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1986 to 2008. He was assistant secretary from 1972 until April 1986. Prior to that call, he served as assistant secretary and then secretary to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (1970–1972). He was called to serve in the First Quorum of the Seventy in April 2008 and served until October 2013 when he was designated an emeritus general authority.) Fair Claims “The First Presidency’s secretary apparently answered a question according to his own understanding” C. Something Changed What changed in Mormonism Environment – The events including number of deaths and the supplies present in the Book of Mormon simply doesn’t match what has been located on that hill – Views seem to change in the 1940’s and 1950’s 1992 Encyclopedia of Mormonism Last paragraph and subsequent finish on next page F. Michael Watson’s Second Letter 1993 “He (F. Michael Watson)  responded that the First Presidency would like to clear up that Issue and he would FAX me with that clarification.” LINK to this message Similar message from official channels  John Clark 2004 – “the Hill Cumorah. Archaeologically speaking, it is a clean hill. No artifacts, no walls, no trenches, no arrowheads. The area immediately surrounding the hill is similarly clean. Pre-Columbian people did not settle or build here. This is not the place of Mormon’s last stand. We must look elsewhere for that hill.” D.) The Church in the present modern moment New Approach Hill Cumorah as defined by the Church ““In the 1820s, the hill did not have a name. It later became known as the Hill Cumorah because Moroni, the Book of Mormon’s final author and the angel who met with Joseph Smith, wrote that he had hidden the golden plates in a hill called Cumorah (see Mormon 6:6)” Still old remnants of the old approach Hill Cumorah Photo Cumorah, Hill Poem to be read at the end  PHOTO to show while I read

RFM and Bill sit down with a former BYU Professor to discuss the experience of losing your faith while working for the Lord’s University. RESOURCES: https://www.louisakillian.com/ www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpUN29orJmM www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg36L1989Ss&t mylifebygogogoff.com/2020/08/how-a-new-instagram-page-is-exposing-apostate-byu-professors.html

Bill Reel and RFM take a look at the Historical Jesus and hit on the main points that Biblical criticism brings into focus and once they are done, your Christmases may never be the same.Jesus son of Mary – Illegitimate birth. Mark infers. The early church theologian Origen (d. 251 CE) has a polemical tract in which he writes an apologetic for Jesus’ virgin birth against Celsus, a pagan skeptic of Christianity (around 178 CE). Celsus was a proponent of the idea that the virgin birth story was a fiction invented by Jesus, when the truth was (as he apparently believed) Jesus was the biological product of his mother and a Roman soldier named Pantera. Also Virgin births were a common trope and polemic device in ancient mythology. Manger – ACU scholar Stephen Carlson writes that the word “kataluma” (often translated “inn”) refers to guest quarters. Most likely, Joseph and Mary stayed with family but the guest room was too small for childbirth and hence Mary gave birth in the main room of the house where animal mangers could also be found. use the links below from Dan Mcllellan Manger/Inn – Scripture Translation Supervisor for the LDS Church, PhD in theology and religion https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7037619189456358703?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 More on the nativity – Daniel McClellan https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7037685245172256046?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Traditional Account of the nativity – Daniel McClellan Scripture Translation Supervisor for the LDS Church, PhD in theology and religionhttps://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan/video/7040144974750731566?lang=en&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1 Inconsistencies in the narrative – Matthew and Luke, the only Christian gospels which give us the virgin birth story, contain problematic details-both internally and in comparison to each other. For example, it’s been pointed out often that Luke’s dating of the census (while Quirinius was governor of Syria) in Luke is problematic. There are also difficulties when the accounts are compared to each other. The two genealogies don’t exactly reinforce each other and there are a number of striking differences when compared alongside each other–in particular the migration to Egypt in Matthew (2:13-14) which is completely absent from Luke. In Luke’s account, Mary and Joseph take Jesus home immediately to Nazareth (2:39-40), with no reference to a flight to Egypt or a conflict with Herod. Live in Bethlehem? – According to the Matthean infancy narrative, Joseph and Mary are natives to Bethlehem! They live in their house there! Houses would be part of patriarchal compounds with as many as 50 to 100 people.  There is no Lukan manger mentioned, and definitely no stables! The author “Matthew” expects his audience to understand this, being that he writes for people equipped with culturally-appropriate auxiliary background information. We Western Christians, reading with spurious familiarity, are blind to this. Did the Holy Family go from Bethlehem to Jerusalem and then straight back to Nazareth, as “Luke” tells us? Or did they reside in Bethlehem, give birth to Jesus there, live about two years there until the magi come, then flee to Egypt, then some years after go to a place they’ve never been to before and take up residence there, as “Matthew” says? (No need to read the following but in case someone asks why 2 years – Notably, the magi visit Jesus in a house (not an inn or stable) and their visit is as late as two years after the birth. Matthew 2:16 records King Herod’s orders to kill baby boys up to the age of two based on the report about Jesus’s age from the magi. This delay is why most Christian churches celebrate the visit of the magi on “Epiphany” or January 6) the slaughter of the innocents – given that Bethlehem probably had fewer than 1,000 residents, it’s possible the slaughter of the innocents involved just three or four babies, Witherington said. “We’re not talking about streets lined with dead babies,” Witherington told Live Science. In a world full of brutality and violence, it’s not clear the death of a few no-name babies in a sleepy village would have made the history books. Erroneous History about a Census – A similar situation exists with the Lukan census of the whole world when Quirinius was governor of Syria (Luke 2:1–2). This census was presumably made when Herod the Great reigned over Judea (1:5), and who was alive when Jesus was born and for some time after. Copious records exist from the time of Caesar Augustus’ reign (27 BCE—14 CE). These records describe many events during that reign, particularly the most important. None of them mention anything about a worldwide census. And consider how “Luke” describes this census: people must return to the home of their ancestors. Consider what the Empire would look like in order to accomplish that—throngs of millions migrating all over for the census. And yet all historical records remain silent on it? In his own history, Augustus himself fails to mention this achievement! That’s simply not credible. RESOURCES: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/messyinspirations/2019/12/history-discrepancies-jesus-birth/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/unsystematictheology/2016/03/six-problems-with-the-virgin-birth-biblical-and-historical-perspective/ https://theconversation.com/what-history-really-tells-us-about-the-birth-of-jesus-89444 http://www.paulonpaul.org/jesus/narr_2_birth.htm https://www.livescience.com/49228-nativity-story-facts-history.html https://tabletalkmagazine.com/posts/the-controversial-birth-of-jesus/ https://www.patheos.com/blogs/messyinspirations/2019/12/different-jesus-birth-stories/

RFM & Bill Reel explore Missions and how an LDS Mission can contain some strange experiences and difficulty. They accomplish this by sitting down with with someone who had just that sort of Mission.

I was recently honored to be asked to give a presentation before the Mormonism and Western Esotericism Group.  My address on the subject of Ancient Hebrew Numerology in the Book of Mormon was warmly received, and we had a wonderful time talking about it and related subjects during the second half of the evening. I want to thank Professor Trevor Luke of Florida State University for his gracious invitation to make this presentation, and all the scholars associated with the MWE for their graciousness in listening to what I had to say, and especially for their fabulous insights into the subject!

Mormonism LIVE: 053: One Year Anniversary RFM and Bill Reel kick of the second year of Mormonism LIVE with a look back of the past 52 weeks since Mormonism Live’s inception. We look at the favorite episodes of both us and the viewers. We look back at any funny moments, and wonder where the next 52 episodes might take us

Wednesday Nov. 24th, RFM and Bill sat down with Denver Snuffer and discuss his life and the happenings around the Christian fellowships of “the Remnants” movement. Denver Snuffer is an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and a revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement, a spiritual movement in schism with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the LDS Church. He was excommunicated by the LDS Church in 2013 for refusing to cease publication of his 2011 book, Passing the Heavenly Gift which challenges many points of LDS orthodoxy. He subsequently has been identified as a prophet by many, and several of his teachings have been canonized as scripture. RESOURCES: https://denversnuffer.com/ https://medium.com/the-seer-stone/mormonism-has-a-new-religion-and-it-has-a-prophet-named-denver-snuffer-282f5e24df1e https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church-holds-special-meeting-to-denounce-false-prophet http://ldspioneerarchitecture.blogspot.com/2016/02/architecture-highlights-prayer-circle.html

Preparing on a short week with our focus on Thrive & the Midnight Mormon’s Debate with RFM has us selecting an interesting topic that is light and fun. So Wednesday November 17th RFM and Bill Reel dive into the old folklore surrounding Bigfoot being none other than Cain. The origination story, and how Prophets, Seer’s, and Revelators have turned a strange story into some sort of pseudo doctrine, How FairMormon really screwed the pooch, and how Mormonism’s and Sasquatch’s narratives intertwine in other strange places you may not have seen coming. RESOURCES: Is Cain Bigfoot? The Truth Behind 5 Mormon Folklore Stories – https://www.ldsliving.com/is-cain-bigfoot-the-truth-behind-5-mormon-folklore-stories/s/64534 Awareness of racism eased Mormon folk tales regarding Cain, Bigfoot https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/2015/oct/18/awareness-of-racism-eased-mormon-folk-tales-regarding-cain-big/ Bigfoot In Mormon lore … is Bigfoot Cain? https://utahstories.com/2019/07/bigfoot-in-mormon-lore-is-bigfoot-cain/ Journal of Mormon History Vol. 33, No. 3, 2007 (pg 74) https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=mormonhistory Question: Does Cain still roam the earth, and does this account for stories about “Bigfoot”? – FAIR https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Does_Cain_still_roam_the_earth,_and_does_this_account_for_stories_about_%22Bigfoot%22%3F Mormon theory of Bigfoot traces monster to Garden of Eden https://www.syracuse.com/strangecny/2008/02/morman_theory_of_bigfoot_trace.html The Mormon Bigfoot Genesis Theory – 10 Zen Monkeys http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2008/02/05/the-mormon-bigfoot-genesis-theory/ When Cain Appeared to Joseph Fielding Smith’s Brother & Talked with an Apostle https://www.ldsliving.com/when-cain-appeared-to-joseph-fielding-smiths-brother-talked-with-an-apostle/s/83424 The Mark of the Curse: Lingering Racism in Mormon Doctrine? https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf Poems 476–507 – Eliza R. Snow Lexicon https://erslexicon.wordpress.com/poems-476-507/ https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/11/Cain-Bigfoot-Mathew-Bowman.pdf https://archive.org/details/lifeofdavidwpatt00wilsrich/page/44/mode/2up https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/45228364.pdf http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/DPatten.html (nothing about Cain) https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/c7b775e0-ef6c-4ebe-b205-f159d8f4cdd7/0/1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/d5811ffxhgbph5v/MS_603-David_W_Patten_journal-ORIGINAL.pdf?dl=0 (Nothing about Cain) https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/51730/p

RFM and Bill Reel start with a conversation with a relatively recent legal action that completes the Apostolic Coup D’etat and does it with a coup de grâce. After which we discuss the upcoming trip to THRIVE this weekend and the debate on Saturday November 13th between RFM and Midnight Mormons RESOURCES: https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Amended-and-Restated-Articles-Filed-4-21-2020.pdf https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Amended-Articles-Filed-6-19-19.pdf https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Articles-of-Merger-Filed-11-18-2020.pdf https://mormonismlive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Officer-Appointment-Resolutions-Filed-7-19-2019.pdf https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/0122898D:US https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ut/555534-0145 http://www.mormonism101.com/2015/01/the-corporate-structure-of-mormon-church.html 1. TIME STAMP 0.00 – 0.18 2. TIME STAMP 7.24-9.00 3. TIME STAMP 9.00-9.21 4. TIME STAMP 20.00-21.50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DaOukG1cM&t TIME STAMP 0.00 – 1.31 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxaLKprguvo&t​ TIME STAMP 5.27-5.41. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxaLKprguvo&t TIME STAMP 5.27-5.41.  

We sit down with author and Illustrator of the book “The Glass Looker”, Mark Elwood and discuss how he incorporated Joseph Smith’s Treasure Digging into a beautiful animated book. We discuss how he decided what to include and what impact he hopes this book has RESOURCES: How the Project Came Together – https://theglasslooker.com/behind-the-scenes/ Order the Book – https://theglasslooker.com/product/volume1/ Mormon Discussion “168: Seer Stones, Folk Magic, and Alvin’s Hand” – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2015/09/seer-stones-folk-magic-and-alvins-hand/ Mormonism LIVE !: 016: Peek Stones, Sheep’s Bones, and Gold Thrones all on Miner’s Hill – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4qiP2hZtcA