Popcast

Sasha Weiss, an editor who guided the Times Magazine songwriting project, and Wesley Morris, a critic and writer who helped defend the 30-person list, debate their toughest choices. They recount room arguments, nationality and authorship puzzles, clashes over rap, pop and catalog vs. peaks, and which influential songwriters just missed the cut.

Taylor Swift, singer-songwriter and cultural figure known for meticulous craft, joins a deep songwriting conversation. They unpack song structures, bridges, and micro decisions like alliteration. Discussion ranges from revisiting old songs and turning criticism into art to gendered reception of confessional writing. The talk traces emo and pop-punk influences and how songs teach feeling.

A lively conversation with the Oscar-winning actress about her role as a Taylor Swift-Lady Gaga hybrid pop singer (with songs by Charli XCX and twigs, who makes an interview cameo!) in the new A24 film “Mother Mary,” plus: “The Devil Wears Prada 2” and how Hathaway shook off her old, awkward self. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.