

Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond
Mark Graban
Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations features thoughtful, in-depth discussions with leaders, authors, executives, and practitioners who are applying Lean thinking in the real world.
Hosted by Mark Graban—author of Lean Hospitals, Measures of Success, and The Mistakes That Make Us—the podcast explores Lean as a management system, a leadership philosophy, and a people-centered approach to continuous improvement.
Episodes span healthcare, manufacturing, startups, technology, and professional services. Guests share candid stories about what actually works—and what doesn’t—when organizations try to improve.
This is not a podcast about chasing tools, jargon, or “Lean theater.” Instead, you’ll hear honest conversations about leadership behaviors, culture, psychological safety, learning from mistakes, and building systems that help people do their best work.
If you believe improvement starts with respect for people—and that better systems beat blaming individuals—this podcast is for you.
Find show notes and all episodes at LeanCast.org.Learn more about Mark Graban at MarkGraban.com.
Hosted by Mark Graban—author of Lean Hospitals, Measures of Success, and The Mistakes That Make Us—the podcast explores Lean as a management system, a leadership philosophy, and a people-centered approach to continuous improvement.
Episodes span healthcare, manufacturing, startups, technology, and professional services. Guests share candid stories about what actually works—and what doesn’t—when organizations try to improve.
This is not a podcast about chasing tools, jargon, or “Lean theater.” Instead, you’ll hear honest conversations about leadership behaviors, culture, psychological safety, learning from mistakes, and building systems that help people do their best work.
If you believe improvement starts with respect for people—and that better systems beat blaming individuals—this podcast is for you.
Find show notes and all episodes at LeanCast.org.Learn more about Mark Graban at MarkGraban.com.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 13, 2021 • 1h 2min
Katie Anderson: One Year of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and the New Audiobook
Author, speaker, coach, publisher, and more
Show notes and links: https://www.leanblog.org/420
My guest for Episode #420 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Katie Anderson, appearing for the sixth time and the first time as a live-streaming guest! Katie is a leadership & learning coach, consultant, speaker, author | Japan Study Trip Leader. She's the founder and principal consultant at her own firm. You can find previous episodes here.
She's the author of the book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning. Tomorrow is the first anniversary (or birthday) of the book! To celebrate, there's a short-term Kindle book sale (99 cents or 99 pence in the UK) from Wednesday to Friday this week July 14, 15, 16.
We're also celebrating that tomorrow is the official release date for the audiobook! It's available through Amazon or Audible.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
You asked yesterday, in your email newsletter, “What does leadership mean to you?” — how do you answer that question?
How has your answer changed thanks to the influence of Mr. Yoshino?
What have you learned in the past year since the publication of your book? Or I should ask, what stands out most in terms of what you have learned?
Did the audiobook process yield any further content to the print edition?
What was the process for creating and recording the audio book?
Is there something new, work related or otherwise, that you've started learning recently? Has helped you think about learning, coaching, and practicing differently?
You and Mr. Yoshino were guests together on “My Favorite Mistake” — if I had a podcast called “My Most Recent Mistake” — what is one that comes to mind?
Best Thing / Worst Thing — What's the best thing and the worst thing about…
Writing and publishing a book?
Working in healthcare improvement?
Being active on LinkedIn?
Living in Japan full time as an American?
The gelato post that Katie wrote
Tell us about some of the coaching you've been doing, including the K2C2 Coaching Communities…
Leading to Learn Accelerator
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

Jun 30, 2021 • 30min
Revisiting Paul O’Neill on Habitual Excellence, Safety & Healthcare Leadership
Former CEO of Alcoa, U.S. Treasury Secretary
Originally released as Episode #124 in July, 2011
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/124
Today’s episode is a special encore presentation of my 2011 conversation with the late Paul O’Neill Sr. At the time, he was serving as the non-executive chair of Value Capture, but his impact reached far beyond that title. Paul was best known as the former CEO of Alcoa and the 72nd U.S. Secretary of the Treasury—but also as a passionate advocate for safety, transparency, and leadership in healthcare.
This interview remains one of the most meaningful I've ever conducted. Paul challenged the status quo and spoke with clarity and conviction about the role of leaders in driving toward “theoretical limits” of zero harm—both in industry and in healthcare.
In this conversation, Mr. O’Neill discusses:
Leadership mindsets that enable dramatic safety improvements
How Allegheny General Hospital nearly eliminated hospital-acquired infections
Why we’ve made so little national progress since To Err Is Human
His powerful argument: “The real skill shortage is leadership”
A vision for transparency, accountability, and learning from every mistake
Why Washington should have looked to ThedaCare, not Wall Street, for healthcare transformation
This timeless message is especially relevant today as leaders seek to balance safety, cost, and culture in complex systems.
🎙 This episode is sponsored by Stiles Associates – celebrating 30 years as the go-to Lean executive search firm for manufacturing, healthcare, and private equity.
🧭 Part of the #LeanCommunicators network

Jun 23, 2021 • 55min
Lean Six Sigma and Continuous Improvement from Railroads to Pageants: Allison Greco
Founder of Continuous Improvement International
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/419
My guest for Episode #419 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Allison Greco, an industrial engineer, a Six Sigma Black Belt, and the founder of Continuous Improvement International, a professional society that you can join today.
In this episode, we'll hear about her Lean Six Sigma origin story (which was in the railroad industry). We'll also hear, at the end, how she applied continuous improvement thinking to her participation in pageants (winning Mrs. Oklahoma).
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
How to navigate C.I. in this hybrid work world
Why start Continuous Improvement International (CII)
What's the best thing / worst thing about continuous improvement and entrepreneurship?
Her upcoming conferences in Tulsa and Omaha
Her articles about C.I. and pageants
Continuous Improvement & Beauty Pageants: Making it Stick
Continuous Improvement & Beauty Pageants: Finding the Why
CI & Beauty Pageants: Post-Mortem – Don’t Steal the Crown
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

Jun 16, 2021 • 59min
The Lean Journey (and Mass Vaccination Sites) at Munson Healthcare: Kaleb Foss and Butch Bowlby
C.I. manager and pharmacy system director, Munson Healthcare
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/418
My guests for Episode #418 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast both work for Munson Healthcare in northern Michigan. They are Kaleb Foss, Continuous Improvement department manager, and Butch Bowlby, the system director of Pharmacy.
In this episode, we'll hear about their “Lean origin stories” and we'll hear about the approach to Lean and continuous improvement at Munson. We'll also take a fairly deep dive into the setup of their mass vaccination site (which they set up for employees with just six days' notice!).
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
Tell us a little about Munson Healthcare
What are your Lean origin stories? How did you get exposed to Lean and why is it important to you?
How would describe the approach to Lean or CI at Munson?
What does that idea of transformation and a management / operating system mean to you, Butch?
How would you describe some of the benefits or results that you've seen at Munson Healthcare?
Cultural indicators & language, root cause
Patient safety
Staff safety, psychological safety
Tell us about the challenge of setting up mass vaccination clinics
Looking at Zero Waste vs. Zero Harm goals
Why was standard work and evolving that SW so important?
Why and how has that focus shifted away from mass sites? What have you done to design a process for that?
Why and how has the focus shifted away from mass sites? What have you done to design a process for that?
What comes next for you and Munson??
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

Jun 9, 2021 • 1h 3min
Dr. John Kenagy on Adaptive Design Kata: An Improvement and a Leadership Kata (Lean Healthcare)
MD, author, Kenagy & Associates
This file has cleaned up audio compared to the initial release.
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/417
My guest for Episode #417 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is John W. Kenagy, MD, MPA, ScD, FACS, of his firm Kenagy & Associates based in Washington state.
John is the author of the book Designed to Adapt: Leading Healthcare in Challenging Times.
Dr. John Kenagy knows healthcare as a physician, executive, academic researcher and advisor. In addition to his clinical experience as a vascular surgeon, he has been Chief of Surgery, Chief of Staff and Regional Vice President for Business Development in a not-for-profit healthcare system. But, his most meaningful experience was becoming a patient, as we'll hear about today.
Searching for new answers, he became a Visiting Scholar at Harvard Business School. His research included developing disruptive innovation healthcare strategy with Harvard Professor Clayton Christensen and translating to healthcare the drivers of success in resilient, highly adaptive companies like Toyota, Intel and Apple.
Dr. Kenagy is hosting a webinar in the KaiNexus Continuous Improvement webinar series on June 15th. Please join us for that by registering here.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
What's your Lean / Toyota Production System “origin story”?
What he learned after falling out of a tree in 1982
What he learned from Clayton Christensen, Kent Bowen & Steve Spear at HBS
“Toyota enables people to succeed & makes learning part of that success”
4 Rules in Use – the essence of TPS
Spear: Decoding the DNA of the Toyota Production System
The rules applied in HC? What did you learn?
Learned also from Amy Edmondson at HBS
Learned from Toyota's Mr. Oba
“Education can get in the way of learning”
Learned at a smaller TMMK supplier, not at Georgetown, only 120 employees
What is “adaptive design”? Origins of that phrase?
Why avoid the word “Lean”?
Being adaptive in dealing with pandemic challenges — what are the characteristics of their success?
Leadership Kata — 5 principles
1) Clear, meaningful objective (hearts & minds)
2) always start small, simple, safe, and fast
3) use relevant (timely, role specific, actionable) info and simple rules, rapid feedback on effects on your action
4) improvements made by teams involving people doing the work
5) replicate and scale, success trust and optimism … never stop
What do you mean by “virtuoso leadership”?
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

Jun 2, 2021 • 1h 5min
Brad Jeavons on How to Remotely Deploy Lean and Agile (Outside of Manufacturing)
Apologies for the initial editing error... re-releasing this episode.
Author of Agile Sales: Delivering Customer Journeys of Value and Delight
Show notes and links: https://www.leanblog.org/416
My guest for Episode #416, joining us from Brisbane, Australia, is Brad Jeavons, a principal consultant with SA Partners. His colleague Peter Hines was a guest in Episode #373.
Brad is the author of the book Agile Sales: Delivering Customer Journeys of Value and Delight.
Brad is also the host of The Enterprise Excellence podcast and I was his guest on Episode #20 of that series. You can also find the episode (and more) on YouTube.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
How did you get introduced to Lean? And to Agile?
What does growing up on a small farm have to do with it?
Connections between Toyota and farming
What do you mean by the McDonalds-ization of Lean and what problems does that cause?
What's the story behind your book?
Key lessons about improvement work for remote workplaces? Lessons from the last year?
Why is it so important to focus on purpose? To start with why?
What are some of your key lessons related to People? Agile?
What are some of your lessons about focusing on Process?
Your perspective on Lean as a GM as opposed to being a “staff lean guy”?
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

May 26, 2021 • 51min
Tracy O'Rourke on Vaccinations, Lean Six Sigma in Government, and More
Co-founder of the Just-in-Time Cafe
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/415
My guest for Episode #415 of the Lean Blog Interviews podcast is Tracy O'Rourke. She is the co-author of The Problem-Solver's Toolkit: A Surprisingly Simple Guide to Your Lean Six Sigma Journey. She is co-founder of the Just-in-Time Cafe (which producers podcasts, webinars, and more). She is also a self-described “process improvement ZEALOT!”
We had the chance to meet up to visit two vaccination sites in San Diego in March, and the two photos in the post are from that time together (as I blogged about here). That's one of the topics in this episode.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
How did you get introduced to C.I. and what flavor(s)? How did you become a Zealot?
She is the Lead Instructor at UC San Diego for the Lean Six Sigma Green Belt (public offering)
Visiting the UCSD vaccination sites – University and health system
What we saw
Walking the process
Jerry Wright handed her the torch to be the SoCal Lean Network Chair
20 years in consulting, from industry to government, non-profit and education
Can you tell us about a specific example of some of the work you've done in government?
How do you know that it worked?
She's also part of the Lean Communicators Network

May 19, 2021 • 53min
Ryan Weiss on Purpose + People + Process = Performance; Modernizing TWI
President of Effective Performance Solutions
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/414
My guest for Episode #414 of the Lean Blog Interviews podcast is Ryan Weiss. He is president of his firm Effective Performance Strategies, based out of the Chicago area.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
How did you get introduced to Lean?
Becoming a Certified Six Sigma Black Belt
How do you engage people? What was your epiphany on people?
Purpose + People + Process = Performance
Taxation without representation :: kaizen without participation
What is TWI?? How were you exposed to Training Within Industry?
Other podcasts on TWI from this series
Modernizing TWI — some sexist language /scenarios in the original
What happens when you're promoted as a leader?
Explaining WHY
It's not just about manufacturing?
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

May 12, 2021 • 1h 4min
Samantha Riley on Making Data Count and Metrics for Healthcare and Beyond
NHS England, Author of "Making Data Count"
Notes and links: https://www.leanblog.org/413
My guest for Episode #413 of the Lean Blog Interviews podcast is Samantha Riley, the Deputy Director of Intensive Support for NHS England and Improvement. Sam is the author of an amazing publication called “Making Data Count,” which you can read and experience freely online.
Sam and I are “Twitter buddies,” as she said and I follow and enjoy her tweets, especially those using the hashtag #PlotTheDots. We are both users and teachers of (and advocates for) the use of Statistical Process Control charts (aka XmR Charts or Process Behavior Charts) as taught by the statistician Don Wheeler.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
What's Sam's professional background and why it's OK that she's not a statistician
Why are RAG (Red Amber Green) charts or tables insufficient?
How do you have the conversation with boards, executives, and managers about RAG being insufficient?
How to bring people to the table for this learning?
Why are up/down comparisons and color coding leading to “knee jerk reactions”?
What is “spuddling“? Why is that a problem?
Spuddling: To make a lot of fuss about trivial things, as if it were important.
50% of boards have changed their approach — how has that come to be?
What language do you use about improving a predictable system?
How did you get exposed to Statistical Process Control?
What led to “Making Data Count“?
What was “the ham sandwich incident”?
How can we use these charts to look at our weight and health?
How to articulate the benefits of SPC?
Her article in BMJ Leader: National Health Service (NHS) trust boards adopt statistical process control reporting: the impact of the Making Data Count Training Programme
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

May 5, 2021 • 1h 4min
MIT's Dr. Jonathan Byrnes on the Pandemic's Supply Chain Shocks
Senior Lecturer at MIT, author, entrepreneur
Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/412
My guest for Episode #412 of the Lean Blog Interviews podcast is Dr. Jonathan Byrnes, the co-author of the new book Choose Your Customer: How to Compete Against the Digital Giants and Thrive. He is is a Senior Lecturer at MIT, where he has taught about supply chain management and other topics at the graduate level and in executive programs for over 30 years.
He is Chairman and Founder of Profit Isle, an innovative profit analytics and profit acceleration SaaS software company — AND is President of Jonathan Byrnes & Co., a focused consulting company that he founded in 1976. Dr. Byrnes earned a DBA from Harvard University in 1980, and an MBA from Columbia University in 1974.
Topics, questions, and links related to today's episode include:
Article: “How to Manage your Supply Chain Shock Waves“
May 2020 — what did you predict in that article and how did it play out?
The bullwhip effect
The MIT “Beer Game” or “Root Beer Game“
What can you do when there is variance in supply and variance in demand?
Lean as a system, including level loading and local suppliers, not just low inventory
Lean as “cycle time compression” that makes lower inventory possible
Today's glut of hand sanitizer
NY Times: Widespread Commodity Shortages Raise Inflation Fears
WSJ: Auto Makers Retreat From 50 Years of ‘Just in Time' Manufacturing
Mark's blog post about that
The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in their 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more.
This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.


