The CLO Investor Podcast

Drew Sweeney, Co-Head of Global Credit of TCW, joins The CLO Investor podcast to discuss loans to software businesses at a time when AI-displacement risk is elevated. We discuss the question of if declining software valuations and cash flows will be severe enough to impair first lien loans.

John Kim, CEO and co-founder of Reckoner Capital, a seasoned CLO investor and structurer. He talks about launching innovative CLO ETFs, including levered AAA and reinvesting structures. He contrasts leverage versus lower-rated debt and explains liquidity limits for private credit. He also covers market maturity, software loan concentration, and why Reckoner is cautious on new CLO equity.

Serhan Secman, Global Head of CLOs at Napier Park and seasoned CLO investor with engineering and finance roots. He discusses market inefficiencies and why networking and data matter. They cover manager dispersion, drivers behind 2025 equity moves, default outlook for 2026, refinancing dynamics, and practical steps for moving into CLO equity.

A concise 2025 CLO market recap covering record issuance and massive refinancings. Discussion of strong CLO debt returns and surprising BB performance. Examination of why CLO equity lagged despite low defaults and how valuation pressure raised required returns. Comparison of in-court versus out-of-court restructurings and private credit measurement issues. Notes on reasons for cautious optimism heading into 2026.

Brad Larson, Head of US Global Credit Financing at CIBC, joins The CLO Investor podcast to discuss the opportunity he saw in CLOs in 2010, what creates a good CLO banking team, and why CLOs are easier to create today vs. a decade ago.

Greg Borenstein, Portfolio Manager of Ellington Credit Company, ticker: EARN, joins The CLO Investor podcast to discuss EARN's conversion from a morgage REIT, the backdrop for CLO equity and mezzanine, and why CLO equity captive funds are negative for the CLO market.

Mike Hatley, Senior Advisor at Rothschild & Co., joins The CLO Investor podcast to discuss a brief history of CLOs and various downturns in the loan market.

Sean Griffin, Executive Director of the LSTA, shares his extensive background in CLO structuring and the syndication market. He highlights significant regulatory victories, such as the risk retention repeal, and clarifies the implications of the Kirshner case on loan classification. Sean discusses the smooth LIBOR-to-SOFR transition and the LSTA's focus on enhancing education and operations in private credit. He also touches on member engagement strategies and the future landscape of CLO issuance.

Jonathan Horowitz, Partner and Head of Structured Liabilities at Fortress Investment Group, shares his 30 years of expertise in structured credit and CLO markets. He dives into the trade-offs between bank leverage and CLOs, revealing how the CLO market is currently more cost-effective yet volatile. Jonathan also discusses the low supply of new loans, the implications of Fed rate cuts on demand, and stresses the importance of alignment in CLO management. He offers insights on pricing trends in private credit and highlights Fortress's active role in loan restructurings.

Alex Navin, Managing Director, Performance Trust Capital Partners, LLC, joins The CLO Investor podcast to discuss the year for CLO equity on multiple fronts: leveraged loan defaults, spread compressions, potential Fed Rate cuts, and the growth in CLO debt EFTs.