Scaling Laws
Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Episodes
Mentioned books
Apr 7, 2026 • 51min
Productivity Boom? Labor Shock? Google's Chief Economist on AI
Fabien Curto Millet, Chief Economist at Google who leads economic research on AI and labor, discusses AI's potential to spark a productivity boom and how organizational adoption lags could slow impact. He surveys early micro evidence of gains, compares AI to past tech waves, and outlines measurement and policy needs in short, lively conversations.
Apr 3, 2026 • 44min
Abundance & AI? Nicholas Bagley Explains
Nicholas Bagley, Professor of Law at Michigan Law known for work on administrative law and regulation. He links housing policy failures to AI governance and explains the Abundance Agenda. He traces how procedural rules like NEPA and CEQA slow infrastructure, critiques risk-averse AI guidance, and suggests legal and regulatory reforms to enable better public-sector decision making.
Mar 31, 2026 • 46min
How To Use, Govern, And Lead On AI? Rep. Begich Points The Path Forward
Nick Begich, U.S. Representative from Alaska and former software entrepreneur, outlines how policymakers should approach AI governance and infrastructure. He discusses congressional learning strategies and practical AI adoption in offices. He explores Alaska's potential as an AI data-center hub, energy constraints shaping compute, and the policy steps needed to support long-term AI R&D and specialized models.
Mar 27, 2026 • 40min
Should AI Laws Be Subject To A Higher Standard? The Right to Compute with Kendall Cotton
Kendall Cotton, founder and CEO of Montana’s Frontier Institute and former state policy advisor, talks about Montana’s Right to Compute Act. He explains treating access to computing as a protected right. They explore how the law applies to data centers, software, and 3D printing. They also discuss strict scrutiny as the legal standard and efforts to export the model to other states.
Mar 24, 2026 • 50min
Why Data Governance Is the Key to AI Biosecurity, with Jassi Pannu and Doni Bloomfield
Doni Bloomfield, Fordham law professor specializing in biotechnology regulation and biosecurity policy. Jassi Pannu, Johns Hopkins public health professor focused on biological data governance. They discuss why governing sensitive biological datasets matters. They outline a tiered Biosecurity Data Levels framework, distinguish general-purpose AI from biology-specific models, and debate paths for U.S. policy and international coordination.
14 snips
Mar 21, 2026 • 25min
Rapid Response Pod: Trump's New AI Framework with Helen Toner & Dean Ball
Helen Toner, AI policy and national security expert at CSET, and Dean Ball, technology policy strategist at the Foundation for American Innovation, break down the White House's new AI framework. They compare its scope and wording to other proposals. They debate frontier-model risks, federal vs state regulation, procurement as a lever, and the chances Congress will act soon.
Mar 17, 2026 • 53min
Is AI a Death Sentence for Civic Institutions?, with Jessica Silbey and Woodrow Hartzog
Woodrow Hartzog, a law professor specializing in privacy and tech, and Jessica Silbey, a law professor focused on institutions and technology, discuss how AI reshapes civic institutions. They explore institutional theory, technological affordances, AI’s effects on expertise and skill atrophy, legitimacy and reason-giving in law, and argue for bespoke, institution-specific AI and precautionary governance.
27 snips
Mar 13, 2026 • 46min
Can AI Enable Human Agency?, with Tomicah Tillemann
Tomicah Tilleman, President of Project Liberty and former venture policy leader, outlines strategies to restore user control and data portability in an AI-driven world. He discusses risks of repeating the attention-economy, the promise of an intention economy, the need for interoperable, sovereign agents, and how policy and design must align to enable human agency.
Mar 10, 2026 • 58min
Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney
Austin Carson, founder of Seed AI and regional AI builder, discusses public compute access and place-based adoption. Caleb Watney, policy researcher at the Institute for Progress, highlights meta‑science and team-focused funding. They talk about public compute infrastructure, immigration’s role in innovation, diversifying science funding, and making long-term institutional reforms politically viable.
23 snips
Mar 6, 2026 • 58min
Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?
Timothy B. Lee, journalist and AI policy analyst, and Dean Ball, AI policy advocate and former administration official, join to dissect the Anthropic–Pentagon standoff. They trace the supply-chain designation, debate legal authority and market fallout. Short takes cover personality and politics, OpenAI’s competing deal, public concern about surveillance and weapons, and what government–industry relations should look like.
