Scaling Laws
Lawfare & University of Texas Law School
Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas and Senior Editor at Lawfare, dive into the intersection of AI, innovation policy, and the law through regular interviews with the folks deep in the weeds of developing, regulating, and adopting AI. They also provide regular rapid-response analysis of breaking AI governance news. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Episodes
Mentioned books
May 12, 2026 • 52min
Forecasting AI's Impact on the Economy with Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus
Deger Turan, CEO of Metaculus and leader of the Labor Automation Forecasting Hub, outlines forecasts about AI reshaping work and policy. He discusses divergences from official projections, which occupations and sectors look most vulnerable or resilient. The conversation covers shifting education and hiring pipelines, potential wage and employment puzzles, and how forecasting can inform faster policymaking.
May 8, 2026 • 33min
Rapid Response: An "FDA for AI" at the White House?, with Dean Ball
Dean Ball, former White House AI policy advisor and current senior fellow focused on frontier AI governance. They trace how Anthropic's Mythos jolted Washington, debate reported plans for pre-release model vetting, weigh voluntary "kick the tires" frameworks versus mandatory licensing, and explore how oversight could scale as model capabilities accelerate.
May 5, 2026 • 44min
Lawfare Daily: Why AI Won’t Revolutionize Law (At Least Not Yet), with Arvind Narayanan and Justin Curl
Justin Curl, a Harvard J.D. student focused on legal policy and access to justice, and Arvind Narayanan, Princeton CS professor who studies privacy and societal impacts of computing, discuss why AI’s technical prowess may not cut legal costs fast. They cover the slow diffusion of tech, law as a credence good, regulatory and adversarial bottlenecks, unauthorized practice rules, arms‑race dynamics, and proposed regulatory sandboxes.
May 1, 2026 • 45min
An EU-perspective on America’s Approach to AI with Marietje Schaake
Marietje Schaake, International Policy Director at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Center and former Member of the European Parliament, outlines tech’s sway over democratic functions. She discusses private control of critical infrastructure like undersea cables. She explores tech CEOs as geopolitical actors. She weighs regulation versus nationalization and Europe’s push to build alternatives and enforce AI rules.
Apr 28, 2026 • 50min
Eliminating Barriers to AI Adoption with Clarion AI's Bennett Borden
Bennett Borden, Founder and CEO of Clarion AI Partners who blends law, intelligence, and data science. He explores why AI adoption lags in workplaces and law firms. He outlines designing AI strategy for executives, the psychology behind change, and practical pilots, plus measuring risk, audit trails, and guardian AI concepts.
67 snips
Apr 24, 2026 • 50min
Facts & Myths About AI's Energy Usage with Gavin McCormick
Gavin McCormick, founder of ClimateTrace and co-founder of WattTime, is an environmental technologist using satellites and ML to map greenhouse gas sources. He discusses using AI and imagery to make emissions transparent. He contrasts power use with pollution, explains how data drives regulation and market pressure, and describes building a global, collaborative emissions-monitoring coalition.
Apr 21, 2026 • 45min
AI as Abnormal Technology? Scott Sullivan Analyzes AI in the Military Domain
Scott Sullivan, law professor at West Point and contributor to the Manual on AI in Warfare, explores military AI governance. He contrasts civilian vs military incentives. He explains secrecy, externalized costs, rapid scaling in targeting, and pressures from strategic competition. He discusses testing, lawfulness-by-default design, and interdisciplinary training to manage AI risks in conflict.
Apr 17, 2026 • 50min
Lawfare Daily: Talking About Sam Altman with Ronan Farrow and Andrew Marantz
Ronan Farrow, investigative journalist known for big accountability reporting, and Andrew Marantz, New Yorker staff writer with narrative legal and policy expertise, discuss reporting on Sam Altman and OpenAI. They cover alleged misleading conduct, transparency gaps like the WilmerHale review, corporate board maneuvering, national security risks from country plans, and limits of self-regulation and political influence.
Apr 14, 2026 • 53min
Why AI Needs Independent Auditors, with Miles Brundage
Miles Brundage, founding executive director of AVERI and former OpenAI advisor, explains why independent audits are needed for frontier AI. He discusses shifting audits from models to organizations. He highlights deception-proofing evaluations, a ladder of AI assurance levels, and market levers like insurance and procurement to drive adoption.
Apr 7, 2026 • 51min
Productivity Boom? Labor Shock? Google's Chief Economist on AI
Fabien Curto Millet, Chief Economist at Google who leads economic research on AI and labor, discusses AI's potential to spark a productivity boom and how organizational adoption lags could slow impact. He surveys early micro evidence of gains, compares AI to past tech waves, and outlines measurement and policy needs in short, lively conversations.
