The Future Of Less Work

What if the biggest risk to your organization isn’t burnout, disengagement, or even AI disruption—but a deeper, unnamed sense that something’s off?In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Dr. Erin Eatough and Dr. Shonna Waters, co-founders of Fractional Insights, to unpack the rising levels of workplace angst—a leading indicator of underperformance, turnover, and apathy that traditional engagement metrics fail to capture.Together, they introduce the Angst Index, a framework grounded in organizational psychology and data, and explore how unmet human needs—security, significance, and growth—are quietly undermining talent strategy and business results. From psychological ergonomics to AI-enabled job design, this episode is a call to rethink not just how we work, but how we design work to support human thriving in a fast-changing world.If you’re leading organizational change, navigating the implications of AI, or trying to close the gap between what people need and what work delivers—this conversation offers a strategic and deeply human lens on what comes next. https://youtu.be/3cYJZCdzABE Guest Information:Dr. Shonna Waters, Chief Executive Officer & Principal Advisor, Fractional InsightsAn award-winning organizational psychologist and executive, Shonna is a recognized thought leader in HR, psychology, and business with over 100 articles, technical reports, book chapters, and books and over 100 conference talks, keynotes, and panels. With a background in consulting and executive leadership roles, Shonna has advised organizations on people strategy and transformation across various sectors. At BetterUp, she stood up and led teams in behavioral science, strategic partnerships and alliances, and executive advisory, driving research-backed insights to enhance organizational performance.Link to full bio: https://www.fractionalinsights.ai/dr-shonna-waters Dr. Erin Eatough, Chief Science Officer & Principal Advisor, Fractional InsightsAn award-winning research psychologist, author, and consultant, Erin brings a wealth of experience in employee well-being, work-life integration, and leadership development. She has been recognized for her research in improving performance and thriving at work and in life, with over 100 articles and book contributions across academic and popular press outlets such as the Journal of Applied Psychology and MIT Sloan Management Review.  As a former executive at BetterUp, Erin led Labs Go-to Market,  where her team used behavioral science insights to drive revenue and strategic growth.Link to full bio: https://www.fractionalinsights.ai/dr-erin-eatoughhttps://www.fractionalinsights.ai/ Chapters:00:00 – What Is Workplace Angst and Why Should Leaders Care?03:15 – How Angst Became a Workplace Signal05:40 – Why Naming Angst Matters for Organizational Change07:00 – What Are the Root Causes of Angst at Work?08:40 – How Unmet Needs Undermine Engagement10:00 – How Can Organizations Reduce Insecurity at Work?11:30 – What Levers Help Resolve Employee Angst?13:00 – How to Design Work for Transparency and Trust?14:40 – How Mayo Clinic Used AI to Empower Frontline Workers16:15 – What Is Psychological Ergonomics?18:00 – Why Growth and Learning Are Psychological Needs20:40 – Can Angst Predict Turnover Before It Happens?21:45 – What Should CHROs Do First to Address Angst?23:00 – Why Leaders and Frontline Workers See AI Differently25:30 – What Hidden Signals Should Leaders Pay Attention To?28:40 – Are We Designing a Future Where Humans Still Matter?

What if fairness at work wasn’t just a value—but a system design challenge? In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Siri Chilazi, researcher at Harvard Kennedy School and co-author of Make Work Fair, to explore how we move beyond performative DEI and redesign the infrastructure of work for real equity.From hiring and promotions to flexibility and team culture, Siri shares how behavioral science and process design—not mindset shifts—are the real levers for change. Together, they dive into why many well-intentioned programs fall short, what it means to move from “opt-in” to “opt-out” systems, and how anyone can become a “norm entrepreneur” and drive change from wherever they sit.If you’re rethinking what makes work truly inclusive—and how to build a future where fairness drives performance, not just policy—this conversation is for you. https://youtu.be/LBrQHv8zllI Guest Information:Siri Chilazi is the co-author of MAKE WORK FAIR: Data-Driven Design for Real Results. She is a senior researcher at the Women and Public Policy Program at Harvard Kennedy School whose life’s work is to advance gender equality in the workplace. As a keynote speaker and strategic advisor, Siri collaborates with a wide range of organizations around the world. Her work regularly appears in leading media outlets. Siri has an MBA from Harvard Business School, a Master’s in Public Policy from Harvard Kennedy School, and a BA in Chemistry and Physics from Harvard College.  Chapters:00:00 – Why Fairness Is the Foundation of the Future of Work01:32 – What Does It Mean to Make Work Fair?03:22 – Why DEI Efforts Haven’t Delivered Real Change05:10 – How to Redesign Work for Fairness?07:17 – Why Bias Training Doesn’t Work (and What Does)09:58 – What Small Process Changes Can Make Promotions More Equitable11:38 – Can Managers Spot Talent Without Bias?13:09 – What the Data Really Says About Remote and Flexible Work15:16 – Why Managers Struggle with Flexibility (and How to Help Them)16:58 – What Is a Norm Entrepreneur?18:31 – What COVID Taught Us About Inclusion and Participation20:27 – How to Build Inclusion into Everyday Team Norms22:11 – Why Fairness Is Just Smart Management

What happens when you stop organizing work around timelines and tasks—and start designing it around value, outcomes, and real capability?In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Alex Adamopoulos, CEO of Emergn, to explore how organizations can move from project-based to product-based models, and why that shift changes everything—from how teams are structured to how people learn.Together, they unpack why stable, cross-functional teams matter more than org charts, how to turn learning into part of the work (not a pause from it), and why training for today’s tools isn’t enough—we need to build the mindsets for whatever comes next. Alex shares how Praxis, Emergn’s learning platform, helps companies build real capability inside the flow of work, and why the most important question leaders should ask is: “If you had a great idea today, how long would it take to get it into the hands of a customer?”If you’re rethinking how your teams are structured, how you deliver value, or how to equip people for faster, more continuous transformation—this episode is a must-listen. https://youtu.be/3v0y1YUBS3g Guest Information:Alex Adamopoulos, a seasoned executive with over 30 years of experience, is a proven leader in driving organizational transformation through innovative business practices and technology adoption. Under Alex's leadership as CEO, Emergn has established itself as a trusted partner, empowering organizations to accelerate change, enhance their capabilities, and achieve sustainable business outcomes. He is a sought-after speaker, author, and mentor, inspiring and guiding the next generation of business leaders. Chapters:00:00 – What Are Work Charts and Why Do They Matter?02:10 – What's the Difference Between Project and Product based work?04:30 – How Do Fusion Teams Accelerate Product Delivery?06:50 – What’s the Shift from Tasks to Outcomes in Product Teams?10:40 – How Early Marketing Input Prevents Product Waste14:15 – Why Capability Building Matters More Than Process?16:30 – How To Enable Work-Based Learning?18:00 – What Makes Product Management a Future-Proof Skill?19:50 – How Leaders Should Rethink Digital and Learning Budgets22:30 – What Causes Transformation Fatigue and How to Fix It24:30 – How to Redesign Teams Around Value Streams26:00 – How AI Can Accelerate Learning and Execution in Product Work

What happens when the most important skill for the future of work isn’t technical—but navigational? In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Hans Meeder, former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Education and author of Preparing Tomorrow’s Workforce, to explore why career navigation may be the defining capability of our time.From middle school classrooms to mid-career reinvention, they dive into the tools we need to thrive in a world where linear career paths no longer apply. Hans shares why the “college-first” mindset is breaking down, how career-connected learning is helping students find purpose earlier, and what it takes to align education with a rapidly shifting labor market.If you're rethinking your own path—or helping others build theirs—this conversation is essential listening. Discover how to navigate work when the map is constantly changing. https://youtu.be/gDBui04HrlQ Guest Information:Hans Meeder is an author, speaker, and consultant dedicated to empowering youth with the Career Navigation Skillset—tools essential for success in today’s rapidly evolving world of work. A former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Education, Hans has spent decades advancing career and technical education, high school redesign, and workforce development. He is the author of Preparing Tomorrow’s Workforce and several other influential resources on career-connected learning. Today, he continues his advocacy as Senior Fellow for Education and Workforce Innovation at YouScience and leads Blue Crab Talent Strategy, helping schools and communities integrate meaningful career exploration into every student’s journey.www.BCTStrategy.comChapters:00:00 – Why We Must Teach Career Navigation Early01:22 – When Your Degree Doesn’t Match Your Career02:48 – From Career Ladders to Rock Climbing Walls04:16 – The 3 Skills Every Career Navigator Needs06:12 – Middle School Is the Right Time to Start Career Training07:47 – A School That’s Doing Career Navigation Right09:17 – What Parents Can Do to Support Career Exploration11:20 – The Collapse of the “College-First” Mindset13:20 – Why Learning to Learn Is the Real Advantage15:13 – How Skilled Trades Stay Relevant in a Tech World16:30 – Lifelong Learning vs. Lifelong Schooling18:41 – Why Entrepreneurial Skills Matter for Everyone20:36 – Reinventing Yourself in Mid-Career22:25 – Would Free College Change the Debate?23:44 – What Policy Changes Could Prepare Us for the AI Future?25:12 – Should Schools Be Measured by Career Outcomes? 

What happens when AI doesn't just automate tasks but transforms how we build trust, communicate, and define real work? In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Michael Litt, co-founder and CEO of Vidyard, to explore the new frontier of human-AI collaboration. From AI-generated video avatars to real-time translation and agent-driven workflows, they dive into how technology is reshaping everything from sales and communication to organizational design.Michael shares how being "AI curious" is quickly becoming a core skill, why video still matters in a world of automation, and what it means to preserve authenticity and connection at scale. Together, they unpack what organizations can automate, what should remain human, and how trust is fast becoming the ultimate differentiator in the AI economy.If you're navigating where people add value in a world increasingly run by agents and wondering whether video communication can be authentic, this conversation is a must-listen.Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"⁠When AI Can Do Everything, Trust Becomes Your Brand", to explore these ideas further.   https://youtu.be/u1TbnETIoW8Guest Information:Michael Litt is the Co-founder and CEO of Vidyard, the leading provider of AI-powered video messaging and buyer engagement solutions for go-to-market teams. His insights on entrepreneurship, video technology, and venture capital have been featured in Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, and TechCrunch. Beyond Vidyard, Michael is a General Partner at Garage Capital, a seed-stage venture fund backing Canada’s top tech startups, and a Board Member at Quantum Valley Ideas Lab, supporting breakthroughs in quantum research. A proud University of Waterloo alumnus, Michael is passionate about supporting the next generation of innovators and engineers. Outside of business, he’s an avid adventurer, with a love for surfing, skiing, and exploring the outdoors.Chapters:00:00 – AI Won’t Replace Us, But Redefine Our Work03:30 – What Jevons Paradox Teaches Us About AI and Productivity06:00 – How AI Is Transforming Video Production08:00 – Why Being AI Curious Matters More Than Ever  10:00 – What Service as Software Really Means for Jobs and Headcount12:00 – How AI Is Creating a New Kind of Workforce Tension14:00 – Real Use Cases: How Teams Use AI Every Day16:00 – Can AI Avatars Be Used for Authentic Communication at Scale?18:00 – What Makes Communication Feel Real in an AI-Driven World?20:00 – If AI Can Do the Work, What’s Left That’s Truly Human?22:00 – Trust as the Real Differentiator in Business and Sales24:00 – Which Tasks Should Be Automated and Which Tasks Require Human Touch?26:00 – How to Identify When a Human Needs to Be in the Loop27:30 – What Startups Are Doing Differently in the Age of AI29:00 – Why Productivity per Employee Is the New Growth Metric31:00 – What Will Communication Feel Like in 2030?33:00 – The Future of Work Is Human Ingenuity, Not Just Tools

What if the office wasn’t a place, but a platform? In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen sits down with Mark Dixon, Founder and CEO of International Workplace Group (IWG), to unpack how hybrid work is reshaping where, and how we work. Long before “hybrid” was a buzzword, Mark saw the writing on the wall: people needed flexibility, and companies needed scalable, distributed solutions. Now, with over 4,500 coworking locations in 120+ countries, IWG is meeting that need.Together, they explore offices 15 minutes from home, why the return-to-office debate misses the point, how the rise of commuter towns is reshaping economic maps, and why productivity in 2025 is about outputs, not hours. Mark shares data showing hybrid workers are not only more productive, but happier and healthier, and how companies that don’t adapt risk losing top talent. The conversation dives into leadership blind spots, the myth of culture tied to a building, and what organizations must do to curate connection, not just enforce presence.If you’re rethinking office space, leadership culture, or how to keep your best people engaged, this episode is a must. Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, “Where Company Culture Lives When It’s Not In The Office“, to explore these ideas further.https://youtu.be/HEs_3X3cqsw Guest Information:Mark Dixon is the founder and CEO of International Workplace Group, the world’s largest operator of office and flexible workspaces. With hardly any starting capital, Mark had already launched, grown and sold a number of different businesses in the retail and wholesale food industry, by the time he founded IWG in 1989, after spotting businesspeople meeting around coffee tables. Now, the company rents out meeting rooms, office space by the hour, virtual offices and space in co-working sites across more than 120 countries. Mark has received many awards for enterprise and is widely acknowledged as one of the pioneers of the workspace industry who revolutionised the way business approaches its property needs with his vision of the future of work. To find out more please visit: https://www.iwgplc.com/en-gb  Chapters:00:00 – What If the Office Was Never the Point?01:30 – How a Coffee Shop Sparked the Future of Work03:20 – Companies Wanted Flexibility Long Before Remote Work05:15 – Tech Has Quietly Reshaped Work Since 198906:35 – Why RTO Is the Wrong Question08:20 – The Commute Is Broken—Here’s What Should Replace It09:50 – What Companies Get Wrong About Office Culture11:00 – From Office Mandates to Curated Offsites12:30 – HR Is Now Driving Workplace Strategy13:40 – Can You Build Culture Without a Headquarters?15:00 – How AI Is Powering “Work Location as a Service”16:30 – Belonging Without Buildings: What Leaders Need to Learn17:25 – The Future of Management Is About Curation, Not Control19:00 – Building a Sense of Belonging20:10 – The Manchester United Test: Are You Building a Real Community?21:55 – Predicting the Future of Work23:10 – Offices Will Become As-A-Service Like Hotels25:40 – On-Demand Offices Empower Startups and Solo Workers27:10 – 2030: AI Chooses Your Best Place to Work28:40 – Hybrid-Only Companies Are Already the Norm30:20 – The Office Is an HR Issue, Not a Real Estate One31:15 – The One Question Every Leader Should Ask About Work

How will AI affect hiring—and what does it mean for the future of talent?In this episode of The Future of Less Work, Michael Kienle, Global VP of Talent Acquisition at L’Oréal, joins host Nirit Cohen to explore how global companies are navigating the shifting world of work. From AI’s role in recruitment to the growing importance of soft skills and human potential, Michael shares how L’Oréal is adapting its talent strategy in response to changing expectations, evolving technology, and a new generation of workers. Together, they dive into why companies that invest equally in people and tech will lead the future—and how candidate experience, flexibility, and internal mobility are becoming essential to staying competitive. https://youtu.be/rvCYO-cRJHEGuest Information:Michael Kienle is the Global Vice President of Talent Acquisition at L'Oréal, bringing over two decades of experience in human resources. He began his career with L'Oréal in Germany in 1999 as a Junior Product Manager before transitioning to the HR department in 2001. His early roles included positions in Recruitment and Employer Branding at L'Oréal Germany, followed by a move to the Learning department within L'Oréal's Active Cosmetics Division in Paris in 2003. Chapters:00:00 — L’Oréal’s Five Human Potential Criteria?03:15 — How Gen Z Is Redefining Work and Success05:40 — Why L’Oréal Didn’t Go Fully Remote After COVID08:10 — How AI Is Used in the Hiring Process10:20 — Will AI Replace Recruiters?12:05 — How AI Improves Decision-Making With Better Data13:55 — What New Roles Are Emerging in the Talent Market?15:50 — Soft Skills Matter More in the Age of AI17:55 — How to Measure Potential19:45 —The Power Dynamic Has Shifted Toward Candidates21:35 — AI Won’t Reverse the Talent Shortage23:15 — Candidate Experience Impacts Brand Loyalty25:00 — Internal Mobility Resonates With Gen Z27:15 — How to Support Boomerang Employees30:15 — Why Companies Must Invest Equally in People and Tech

How do you attract a new generation of workers to an industry often seen as old-fashioned?In this episode of The Future of Less Work, Gregory Tink, Digital Transformation Director at Schneider Electric, joins host Nirit Cohen to explore how technology, innovation, and culture shifts are reshaping the future of manufacturing. Together, they dive into how AI, automation, and digitalization are not just modernizing operations, but also making manufacturing careers appealing to Gen Z—a generation looking for impact, technology-driven roles, and meaningful work. From changing perceptions to rethinking leadership and building new pipelines through universities, this conversation unpacks how the manufacturing sector can design a future that works for the next generation.https://youtu.be/GKPTzyFUV84 Guest Information:Gregory Tink, Digital Transformation Director at Schneider ElectricGregory Tink is an Operations Transformation and Technology specialist with over 20 years of industry and leadership experience primarily in oil and gas and mining. Over his career, Gregory has owned 4 businesses focused on operational excellence, technology enablement, and organizational transformation. In these businesses, he worked with a variety of clients to transform operations digitally. This included standing up operations and control centers, the implementation of operations, asset optimization, and maintenance platforms, the rollout of cyber security and risk strategies, the integration of OT/IT, and the integration of business functions supporting value chain alignment and the digital thread across the asset lifecycle.https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregtink/ Chapters:00:00 – How Industry 5.0 Redefines the Factory of the Future01:28 – What Is Manufacturing’s Role in the Future of Work?03:36 – Breaking Old Perceptions About Factory Jobs04:48 – Does Technology Replace or Redefine Jobs?06:54 – How Is Automation Changing Factory Roles?08:29 – Gen Z Demands Tech-Driven Workplaces09:53 – Building Talent Pipelines Through University Partnerships11:34 – Why Leadership in Manufacturing Must Change15:36 – Balancing Innovation and Standardization in Factories19:05 –Flexibility in Factory Careers21:23 – Creating Career Mobility In Manufacturing23:40 – How COVID-19 Changed Manufacturing Work Forever25:49 – Redesigning Factory Jobs27:00 – AI Will Revolutionize Factory Operations28:57 – Preparing for the Rise of AI-Driven Manufacturing

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen is joined by Colette Stallbaumer, General Manager of Microsoft 365 Copilot and Co-Founder of WorkLab, for a timely conversation about how AI is reshaping the very language we use to talk about work.Together, they unpack Microsoft’s 2025 Work Trend Index, a report that doesn’t just offer predictions—it reframes how we define organizations, teams, and careers in the age of AI. From the rise of Frontier Firms and Agent Bosses, to the shift from org charts to Work Charts, to the idea of Intelligence on Tap as a new kind of workplace capacity, this episode explores the bold new vocabulary that will shape the future of work.If you’ve ever wondered how AI will change not just how we work—but how we manage, lead, and grow—this is the episode for you. Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, “Microsoft Just Rewrote Work—Here’s The New Language“, to explore these ideas further.https://youtu.be/q6fMIsRo2ow Guest Information:Colette Stallbaumer is Co-Founder of Microsoft WorkLab and General Manager of Microsoft 365 Copilot. She leads the team behind the Microsoft Work Trend Index, driving research to help predict and shape a more fulfilling future of work for all. Her team is focused on helping every customer adapt and thrive as they become AI-first businesses. For the latest data and insights on how work is changing, visit WorkLab and the 2025 Annual Work Trend Index. Chapters:00:00 – How AI Is Redefining the Future of Work01:09 – Why 2025 Is a Turning Point for Work and Technology02:27 – What Does 'Intelligence on Tap' Really Mean?04:18 – Leaders Are Now Driving AI Adoption05:58 – How to Become an 'Agent Boss' in the Age of AI07:55 – Real Examples of Using Agents to Boost Productivity09:25 – Junior Employees Can Do Senior-Level Work11:08 – Daily AI Use Is the Real Competitive Edge13:19 – From Org Charts to Work Charts: Restructuring for AI15:02 – AI Is Breaking Down Silos Across Functions16:14 – Why Humans Still Matter in an AI-Driven Workplace18:29 – What Is the Right Human-Agent Ratio?20:30 – AI Agents Will Join Teams in Three Phases21:51 – What Makes a Company a 'Frontier Firm'?23:53 – Inside the Microsoft 2025 Work Trends Index25:50 – The One Piece of Advice for Thriving in the AI Era28:43 – Why Everyone Needs to Become the AI-Human Bridge32:09 – Work Only Works When It Works for People

In this episode of The Future of Less Work, host Nirit Cohen is joined by Delphine Donné, General Manager of Personal Workspace Solutions at Logitech, for a powerful conversation about redesigning work to fit people—not the other way around.Together, they explore what happens when organizations move beyond one-size-fits-all models and co-create work environments that prioritize flexibility, wellbeing, and inclusion. From designing organizations with wellbeing in mind, to embracing flexible work as a strategic advantage, to the impact of ergonomic tools and diverse teams, this episode unpacks the small shifts that can make a big difference—and why the future of work must be personal, adaptable, and human-centered.If you are curious to understand how small changes at work can make a big impact on wellbeing and why one-size-fits-all work doesn’t work anymore, this is the episode for you.Want to dive deeper into this topic? Read Nirit’s Forbes article, “Your Flexible Work Strategy Will Show Up In Your Products And Earnings“, to explore these ideas further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZL70EFHtRIGuest Information:Delphine Donné, VP & General Manager of Personal Workspace Solutions at Logitech:Delphine is a people-first leader and executive with over 25 years of experience in consumer electronics. Lived and worked in China, North America, and Europe she has transformed many global businesses leading innovation and forming cross-functional global teams. Today, she leads Logitech’s biggest business group, Personal Workspace Solutions (over 2.5bn$).Her mission is to impact people’s lives by creating simple and delightful experiences. A mission that is greatly influenced by her international journey exposing her to different western and eastern mindsets, e.g. China, audience-focused, diverse & inclusive design and innovation, and environmental sustainability are at the center of this mission and are rooted in how she builds any new vision, strategies, organizations and talents. Her current organization is 50/50 women/men (vs. 26% global average) and hosts 30+ different nationalities. The product portfolio she manages is entirely carbon neutral with 2 in 3 products using PCR plastics. She believes that technology must drive more sustainable and inclusive innovation. Fully committed to realizing the company's pledge to being carbon positive by 2030, she leads the way inspiring others through her organization. In her opinion, innovation brings change, and any change leads to exciting, new opportunities.Delphine is one of only 19%* of women in the tech industry that reach the executive level, and she is a mother of two children. She finds herself in the position of a role model, which she views as a serious and integral responsibility, and as such devotes herself to driving action for a more equal and better future for generations to come. Chapters:00:00 – Why RTO Mandates Are Failing06:30 – How To Design Work Around People?08:30 – How Do We Support Work from Anywhere?10:20 – Why Flexibility Attracts Top Talent12:00 – Why One-Size-Fits-All Work Doesn’t Work14:00 – Can Ergonomics Improve Wellbeing?17:30 – How Inclusion Drives Better Products19:30 – Where Will We Work in the Future?21:30 – How Can AI Help Us Work Smarter?24:30 – What Does Modern Leadership Require?27:50 – Why Wellbeing Is the Future of Work30:00 – Are You Happy With How You Work?