The Non-Billable Podcast

John Hutchinson, managing partner of top 100 law firm Broadfield, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s transformation from BDB Pitmans into a tech-enabled, internationally focused mid-market player. He explains the thinking behind the rebrand and the partnership with SHP, a subsidiary of Alvarez & Marsal, designed to support investment in technology, talent and global expansion.He outlines how that relationship works in practice, with Broadfield remaining independent but gaining access to infrastructure, strategic insight and tools like Harvey. The goal is to build a more integrated, end-to-end platform for delivering legal services, while improving efficiency and client value.Hutchinson also shares his perspective on private equity in law, arguing it works for some firms but isn’t the only model. Broadfield is instead focused on long-term growth, international reach and more "sensible pricing", moving beyond simply increasing hourly rates.Looking ahead, the firm is targeting expansion across Europe and the the Middle East, with a focus on private capital and cross-border work. Hutchinson says success in today’s market will come down to combining technology, talent and a clear value proposition for clients.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:40 From BDB Pitmans to Broadfield: the rebrand and strategy shift06:18 The Alvarez & Marsal connection and tech-driven model09:55 Private equity in law firms: opportunity and limits14:12 Building an international platform: US, Hong Kong and beyond17:43 The mid-market squeeze and rethinking pricing models22:09 AI, Harvey and the impact on law firm economics24:21 Leadership, culture and managing rapid change27:25 Hiring strategy and attracting the next generation of partnersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Pierre Proner is the CEO and co-founder of Lawhive. He joins the podcast to explain how his company is combining AI with a regulated law firm model to rethink consumer legal services. He shares how Lawhive pivoted from initially offering software to law firms, driven by a mission to improve access to legal help and reduce the inefficiencies in how consumer law is delivered.He discusses why selling software to traditional firms only went so far, with resistance tied to billable hours and legacy models. That led Lawhive to become a law firm itself, building an end-to-end AI operating system that supports everything from client intake to drafting and back-office work, with lawyers staying firmly “in the loop”.The episode also breaks down how the model works across markets. In the UK, Lawhive uses a consultancy-style platform, while in the US it operates through an Arizona ABS and a co-counsel network. Proner says the tech can significantly increase lawyer productivity and earnings by reducing non-billable work.Finally, he talks about growth. With over $100 million raised, Lawhive is now focused on scaling in the US through expansion and acquisitions, aiming to build a global consumer law firm powered by AI.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 From fintech to legal tech: the origin of Lawhive03:41 Building an AI operating system for consumer law06:19 Why selling software to law firms wasn’t enough07:47 Becoming a regulated law firm and changing the model10:03 Inside the Lawhive platform: AI across the full workflow13:05 Productivity gains, margins and lawyer economics17:05 UK vs US: consultancy model and co-counsel expansion21:06 Funding, US growth and the ambition to build a global consumer law firmAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ropes & Gray has been quietly rolling out one of the most ambitious European growth strategies among US firms in London. In this episode, London managing partner Rohan Massey and antitrust partner Ruchit Patel, who also sits on the firm’s governing policy committee, join the show to discuss how the firm has grown its London office from a two-partner launch in 2010 into a 250-person hub.We talk about the firm’s push across Europe, including the recent launches in Paris and Milan, and why Ropes sees London as the centre of a broader European platform. Patel explains how the strategy is driven primarily by client demand - particularly from private capital clients - and why the firm has chosen to build a single integrated European platform rather than operate offices as separate profit centres.The conversation also explores the competitive dynamics of the London market, where US firms have dramatically expanded over the past decade. Massey and Patel discuss how Ropes thinks about talent, lateral hiring and institutionalising client relationships, including why the firm emphasises collaboration across offices and practice groups.Finally, we get into one of the firm’s more unusual strategic choices: sticking with a single-tier, all-equity partnership while much of the legal industry moves towards multi-tier structures. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction
01:44 The origins and growth of Ropes & Gray’s London office04:31 The rise of US law firms in London05:43 Ropes & Gray’s European private capital strategy09:57 Paris and Milan: the firm’s newest growth engines11:30 Why Ropes believes collaboration is its competitive edge14:45 Talent, lateral hiring and building the partnership17:47 Institutionalising client relationships across the firm20:08 Why Ropes is sticking with a single-tier equity partnershipAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Peter Duffy, founder of Titans and legal tech advisor, explains why top law firms have moved from pilots to firm-wide AI scaling. He discusses why firms buy a general legal AI platform first, how point solutions fill gaps, and why workflow-fit and enterprise readiness beat bespoke LLMs. He urges firms to focus on AI fluency across the workforce rather than trying to outbuild vendors.

In this episode, we sit down with DWF CEO Matt Doughty to discuss what comes next for the UK’s biggest private equity-owned law firm.We discuss DWF’s positioning today: a 5,000-strong global business generating more than £500 million in revenue, split roughly 50-50 between insurance services and commercial legal work. Doughty explains why the firm is doubling down on five core market groups and why “discipline” and clarity about a firm’s “right to win” matter more than chasing the latest trend.A major theme of the conversation is, understandably, capital. Doughty revisits DWF’s 2019 IPO - the largest law firm listing at the time - and what life was really like as a public company, from market disclosures to share price scrutiny. He reflects on the challenges of telling a complex equity story to investors, the impact of macroeconomic headwinds, and what ultimately changed when private equity firm Inflexion took the business private in 2023.Now operating under PE backing, Doughty outlines why he believes private equity isn’t right for every firm, and why he doesn’t expect a “tidal wave” of investment into Big Law.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Taking over as CEO and following Nigel Knowles02:45 Leadership style and protecting DWF’s culture06:32 DWF today: insurance, commercial and global scale09:34 The five market groups driving growth13:12 Why DWF chose to IPO in 201915:46 Life as a listed law firm: governance and share price pressure24:22 Going private: the Inflexion deal and PE backing34:21 Why private equity isn’t right for every law firmAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Alex Kardos-Nyheim is the founder of SafeSign Technologies and now co-lead of AI research at Thomson Reuters. Alex built a legal-specific large language model while still a trainee at A&O Shearman, ultimately selling the company in 2024. He explains why Safe Sign focused on building the “engine” rather than the interface and how a legal LLM was able to outperform some of the biggest AI labs on legal tasks.A central thread of the conversation is how the competitive landscape in legal AI has shifted. What began as a wave of “wrapper” products around foundation models is now evolving into a deeper contest over models, data and defensibility. Alex argues that the real moat lies not in user interface features, but in training models on high-quality legal data and building robust retrieval systems that reduce hallucinations and improve reasoning.We also explore how Thomson Reuters is thinking about the full stack: combining proprietary legal data, live market intelligence and a legal-trained model into a cohesive platform. Finally, Alex shares what he’s seeing inside law firms. Smaller firms should be using AI as a force multiplier to “punch above their weight”, while larger firms face a strategic imperative to convert their institutional know-how into machine-readable data to power their AI tools. His advice to managing partners is direct: hire data engineers, structure your data and lean into expertise. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Building a legal LLM while at A&O03:40 Engine vs wrapper: why Safe Sign focused on the model04:41 Life after the Thomson Reuters acquisition06:24 Inside Thomson Reuters’ “skunk works” AI team08:42 From point solutions to platform wars in legal AI11:49 The perfect stack: models, data and RAG15:07 Why retrieval engines matter more than you think18:33 Data as the moat23:56 Can small data beat big data?27:14 Making legal AI “market aware”31:05 The evolution of Co-Counsel33:57 What law firms are getting right and wrong about AI36:50 “Hire 30 data engineers tomorrow”38:22 Productising law firm know-how43:10 Tips if you started a legal AI company todayAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Simon Levine, former global co-CEO of DLA Piper and now an adviser to Shoosmiths, about leadership, strategy and where Big Law is heading.Simon recounts the move that brought him to DLA Piper in 2005, when he led a 50-person team across to build a global IP, media and technology practice - at the time, one of the largest lateral hires in the UK market. He went on to join the firm’s executive team and was elected managing partner and global co-CEO in 2014.A central theme of the conversation is what it takes to run a truly global law firm. Simon reflects on spending much of his time on the road, and why visibility and regular communication were essential in a partnership of that scale. He explains how town halls, open Q&As and firm-wide vlogs became core to his leadership approach.Looking ahead, Simon shares his view on the current wave of transatlantic mergers, why Europe is being overlooked, and why he believes a gap is opening up in the mid-market - a perspective shaped in part by his current advisory work with Shoosmiths. The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Journey into Big Law04:25 The move to DLA Piper and building a global practice07:18 What it’s really like to run a global law firm09:38 Why communication mattered more than spreadsheets13:06 Defining DLA Piper’s strategy and market position17:17 Why not every firm can chase top-tier private equity19:06 What DLA Piper was really trying to be21:49 Sector strategy, brand focus and resisting dilution26:50 What’s driving the current merger wave30:48 Why Europe is the missed opportunity for UK firms38:19 M&A, lateral hires and the limits of external capital42:07 How AI will change what law firms sellAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we’re joined by Robert Millard, founder of Cambridge Strategy Group and one of the leading thinkers on law firm strategy and mergers. Robert’s route into the legal industry is anything but conventional - from running a national park in Namibia, to advising law firms around the world, to spending time in-house as a business strategist at Linklaters - before completing a PhD on large law firm mergers over the past two decades.A big focus of the conversation is what “strategy” actually means in a law firm context and why it’s so often misunderstood. Robert argues that strategy is about diagnosing and solving a real problem, not producing glossy five-year plans or chasing league table positions. They discuss why rigid strategy cycles struggle in a fast-changing world, how AI is reshaping client expectations, and why firms need to become much better at listening to clients and adapting in real time.Robert then unpacks the findings from his doctoral research into 73 major law firm mergers. He explains how he built a data-driven framework to measure success, cutting through the cliché that “most mergers fail” and why roughly three-quarters of the mergers he studied actually delivered real growth. The discussion also covers what makes transatlantic combinations work, why New York still matters, and the risks of merging with firms in decline.Finally, the episode looks ahead. Robert shares practical advice for firm leaders considering a merger, from spotting red flags in due diligence to avoiding nostalgia for a “golden age” of legal practice. The conversation closes with a clear message: the firms that succeed will be those that stay close to their clients, remain agile, and are willing to rethink how they operate as the market continues to change.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 From conservation to legal strategy03:09 Why Robert did a PhD on law firm mergers04:00 What strategy really means in a law firm06:10 Why traditional strategy cycles no longer work07:47 Clients, AI and the need for constant adaptation09:44 The problem with league tables and five-year plans14:04 When firms are forced to rethink their strategy19:15 How to measure whether law firm mergers succeed25:15 What makes transatlantic mergers work and fail40:22 What law firm leaders should stop doing nowAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Ria Karnik, who leads the associate recruitment team in London at Major, Lindsey & Africa, to unpack what’s really happening in the City talent market, and why the associate level has become the key battleground. Ria shares a recruiter’s-eye view of how US firms have reshaped hiring in London, where demand is strongest right now, and why mid-level lawyers are more sought after than ever.We get into which practice areas are driving growth - from private equity, leveraged finance and private credit through to litigation, tax and competition - and how US firms are quietly building out fuller-service London offices. Ria also explains how partner moves are feeding through to associate hiring, and why firms with a clear strategy and specialism are winning the war for talent.The conversation then turns to pay, progression and pressure points. Ria breaks down the reality behind NQ salary headlines, the growing issue of salary bunching at UK firms, and why transparency around pay, bonuses and career paths has become such a differentiator. She also explores how early US firms are now targeting trainees, and what that means for specialisation, training contracts and junior career decisions.Finally, Ria shares practical advice for both lawyers and firms. For associates thinking about a move in 2026, she explains why understanding your motivations, and exploring a few well-chosen options, matters more than chasing a single name. For firms, she sets out what it really takes to attract and retain talent today, from culture and mentoring to clarity on progression and long-term vision.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Ria’s legal recruitment experience02:26 Major, Lindsey & Africa and its global reach04:19 Where demand for associate talent is strongest05:50 The practice areas driving hiring in London09:00 Life beyond US firms – opportunities across the City10:23 US firms targeting trainees earlier than ever15:59 Salaries, bonuses and the reality behind the numbers21:12 What associates really want from their careers26:10 How law firms can attract and retain top talent38:29 Ria’s advice for lawyers considering a move in 2026About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

James Hacking, founder of Kindleworth, and Mike Estill, strategy consultant turned partner, explore a trend in Big Law—senior partners launching boutique firms. They discuss Kindleworth's support model that helps these partners transition smoothly. Topics include notable spin-outs like Pallas and Rosenblatt, the role of capital in easing startup friction, and the allure of niche markets. They stress the importance of owning a portable client book and the benefits of control and legacy, highlighting how technology and capital can shape successful new firms.