You’re Not Lost! Find Your Direction Your Own Way with Author, Host and Executive Producer, Maxie McCoy

You’re Not Lost – Finding Your Direction Your Own Way with Author, Host and Executive Producer Maxie McCoy

Full Transcript Below: 

Intro:

Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of Crestcom’s The Leadership Habit podcast. In this episode, I sat down and talked with Maxie McCoy. For those that are unfamiliar with Maxie, she is a facilitator of women’s stories, and she’s the author of You’re Not Lost- An Inspired Action Plan to Finding your Own Way, which Refinery29 has called one of the top three books for women. Maxie is committed to the global rise of women. And she’s the host and executive producer of Woman On, an experiential talk show concept. Her work has been featured on Good Morning America, Cosmopolitan, The Skim, Forbes, Fortune, Inc., Bustle, you get the point. She is often interviewed about her expertise in women’s leadership. And then today, we are going to be talking about her book. You’re Not Lost- An Inspired Action Plan for Finding Your Own Way.

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I am thrilled. No, maybe ecstatic to be sitting down and talking to Maxie McCoy. You might be thinking, Hmm, who is Maxie McCoy? Let me tell you that she is an expert in the women’s leadership space. She has been featured on Good Morning America, on The Skim, on Forbes, any major publication. Chances are she’s been there. And she’s also an author of the book, You Are Not Lost, but in addition, she’s a host and producer of her own show, Woman On, as part of the Woman On Collective. And she also does speaking. So we’re going to tap into Maxie’s expertise, and we’re going to talk a little bit more about her book, which I think is a message that everyone needs to hear regardless of your age, that you are not lost, but Maxie, I want you to introduce yourself. I can always give the bubbly intro, but Maxie, please share with our audience who you are and how you actually came to be where you are today.

Meet Maxie McCoy, author of You’re Not Lost

Maxie McCoy:

Well, wherever all of you are sitting and listening, I’m sitting on a little stool with my Figgy plants. I’m in San Francisco. But I was raised in Texas, which was like, you know, the original story, but I consider myself a facilitator of women’s stories. It’s something that I have been doing since I could breathe. It’s why I write. It’s why I love being in person. It’s why I love to interview. Yeah, it’s just really being able to pull together our universal experiences and truths. And the way that has shown up lately, as I have this book, You’re Not Lost, which we’re going to talk about more obviously what you just said, hosting and producing Woman On, which is really all about moving individuals forward, giving them the information they need to inform the next step in their own life. And it’s really, really, I’m really grateful to be doing the work, but I always say too, that, like I’m a writer at heart because I just I think it’s my first love.

Jenn DeWall:

So writing is your first love? I would never have guessed it because you are so, I mean, from being someone that’s participated in Woman On just watching your interviews and having these powerful conversations

Maxie McCoy:

It’s writing, I know, isn’t that weird? I actually like on, on hard days, which I think everybody listening can, can definitely relate to when you’re like, what am I doing? Does anything that I do matter? Like, where is this all going? Like that vibe. Which happens. It seems like it happened a little bit more in 2020, which I think we can all we all know why. But those feelings I’m like, do I, can I just move to the mountains and write fiction books or books in general for the rest of my life? And then my best girlfriends will be like, you know, that, that wouldn’t actually make you happy. You love being with people and connecting people, and asking people questions. And it’s true. But yeah, it, it, it is like, it kind of like is under all of the very external stuff. There’s like a secret hermit-y writer inside.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh, I love, I need to find my own secret hermit-y writer.

Maxie McCoy:

You do, but you just give so much to us, and we are all so much better for it.

What Inspired Your Book, You’re Not Lost?

Jenn DeWall:

What inspired you to write a book? You know, it’s called You’re Not Lost. I know it’s just feeling like, am I lost, but what inspired you to write that piece? Like where did you come to be to realize that people really needed to hear that message?

Maxie McCoy:

Yeah. It’s, you know, for me, I always, again, going back to the writing, being the first stuff I always knew I wanted to write my own book. I just wasn’t sure what it would eventually be. So I knew that that kind of that skillset and that desire was there, but the way the book came to life and not like that little corner of the world where people do feel lost was when- it’s where you and I first came together. You know, I’m working in the women’s leadership space as the person running offline communities for a company that now no longer exists, but I was tasked with community building, with facilitating the leaders in each city who would build out the curriculum. And it was all targeted at young professional women who were in the first, like ten years of their career. It was like a really specific audience.

And when I was there, I spent the majority of my time in these 30 different cities around the world. It didn’t matter whether we were talking about negotiation, whether we were talking about office politics, whether we were talking about anything leadership-related, job search, what always came up in those conversations was really high achieving and high performing, accomplished women still saying, but I feel really lost. Or I don’t really believe in my ability to do that. And you know, for me it was, I kept hearing it. I kept hearing it. It wasn’t like, Ooh, this is your book. Like I never had that moment. But I did notice that I was hearing that a lot. And when I asked myself, you know, well, what is the source of this? Or, more importantly, what are we telling people who feel lost? It was just a lot of the same stuff.

Like find your passion and figure out your purpose. And I know that I had felt really lost at one point in my journey. And I was like that advice like I’ve said it before, so I’m not knocking anyone who has said that or who believes that. I think it’s really well-intentioned. It’s just not your starting point when you’re in the depths of feeling stuck and lost. And so when it came time, like, you know, as I had been building my career, I have people kept asking, like, are you writing a book? When are you going to write a book? I would love to have a book from you, like your voice, your writing, because I’ve been blogging on the internet for years and had built up a following. And so when I kind of married those two, like people asking me to write a book, me noticing that there was this unmet need, and that’s really where you get a book deal. Right. If we’re getting into the trappings of, of how to get published, it’s, what’s the thing that hasn’t been written or what’s what hasn’t been addressed in like your strategy and way with like an actual need and a platform that you’ve built. So yeah, it’s just like kind of came together sort of tactically, but it was really based on listening to the women that I was supporting,

Jenn DeWall:

Because like You’re Not Lost. I like that. You really touched on the fact that we often, when we feel lost, one of the first pieces of advice that someone will say to us, and again, as well, intentioned as well, just find your passion. That is a big question.

Maxie McCoy:

It’s a really big question. And, and, and origin, it’s like, well, just figure out what you want. Like just, just, you know, like write some goals and, and whatever. And it’s just like these big things, like, what are your passions? Which like our passions change, like my passion right now versus like my passion this time, last year, I was like sorta the same, sorta different. And also, it’s just like we deliver these pieces of advice that are sort of too big and end all be all when what we really need is to come back to like really small choices and really small actions That can keep us moving.

Jenn DeWall:

What’s an example of a small choice for an action that you kind of do to keep yourself moving when you might be teetering on feeling lost or, you know, just the anxiety.

Maxie McCoy:

I mean, I teeter on all of it, right? On certain days it’s like, what is going on? One example that I’ll give you is actually after my book came out, I was just feeling like, so a lot of when the like, lost feelings come up, that I have found in a lot of the interviewing and the anecdotal research for this book is when we accomplish really big goals. When we have big promotions, big life, things that we thought were going to fill the bucket, and then we get there, and we’re like, okay. Like, we’re not all of a sudden like solved because we had this one big achievement that we had been working towards all year or our whole lives. Right? There’s a lot of us that have done those things. And so, you know, for me having a book come out and, and really, truly it doing what it did and having the experiences with my audience who had read it.

And I just, I remember at one point, like I was signing the books and looking up, and there was this long line of women, and I just was stopped in my tracks because I was like, I literally can’t believe this is happening to me because I’ve stood in so many of those lines to meet the woman who’s writing I have loved and has, has affected me. And, and it was moments like that, that, well, okay, I’ve done this now. Right? Like, what do I want from this? Like, what do I do next? And at the time, I wasn’t actively building anything. I had just been super focused on getting the book out, super focused on that book tour. And, and obviously like making the money I needed to make, but like, it was all focused around the book, and I remember feeling really lost.

And one of my best girlfriends literally opened up my own book and read it to me. And it really came down to what you’re asking. Like I just asked myself, I know the things that light me up. Like I do know what energizes me. So if I were to move the big picture aside, if I were to move the big goal aside, the big achievement, the big like 10 point plan, passion purpose, like, where’s it all going question. If I just move all of that and really look at it right now, what lights me up? Bringing women together. Am I doing that in a way that I’m in control of? At the time, I was not. So I was like, okay, I’m going to research venues in my neighborhood that I could get for free or at low cost. And then put a call out to women in San Francisco around a theme and bring them together.

Because I think I want to do this Woman On thing, but I need to start somewhere. So I just started testing it, literally. It was that small, right. It’s asking yourself, asking yourself the question around alignment, energy, what might make you happy? What might make you excited? And then instead of having to have a whole plan against it, just doing one thing, recording one episode, going to one workshop, you know, picking up one book about fiction writing, like the small things. And obviously, hindsight is literally always hindsight. So I get that. It always makes sense in hindsight. But when you look back, when you choose to do things without being obsessed with where it all turns out, you’re like, right. The difference between, you know, the finding partnership and not was going on that one date that you were sort of like, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. Or, you know, you go on the one interview that was like a total maybe for you. But then you met the mentor that opened up all of the doors to your wildest dreams. And it’s like, we have to keep doing that when we feel lost and stuck, we have to keep showing up, even though we don’t know where it’s all headed and like, totally be okay with that.

Start with Small Actions

Jenn DeWall:

I love that answer. And also addressing just, you know, acknowledging that it is really difficult for people to say, well, especially if they’re overachievers, right, as many leaders probably listening to this are, they are likely very ambitious. And so they might want to feel like, well, if I’m going to commit to something, or if I’m going to pivot, I’ve got to have this gigantic plan, right. It never needs to be that way. You’re the one that is choosing that.

Maxie McCoy:

Totally. We glorify these big leaps, and we glorify. You even said it like the major pivot. Right? Well, what if we just didn’t do any of those? And what if instead, and we know this in our work, right. Instead of handing our boss the thing that we worked a year on, and we’re so precious about, that we then get feedback and feel like everything is crumbled. What if we showed them the first draft for some early feedback that we can then build on. And, you know, we should be doing those things in our own lives, like being willing to go to, if I use the example of writing a fiction book, even if what you do in your day to day is like, you’re a school teacher. Well, if you have little dreams, maybe about writing fiction, what if, instead of quitting your job and leaping to become a fiction writer, you took four weeks of an hour-long workshop online, maybe wrote a few pages to see if you even like it. And, and I think we make up a lot of stuff in our heads of things that look better or might seem better or feel better, but we never gave ourselves the opportunity for iteration and feedback. And that’s actually what little choices and little actions without having a whole big plan allow us to do. They allow us to get feedback before upending our lives.

Jenn DeWall:

I think what I hear you also saying is, you know, leaders to be truly effective to be truly successful women, men, it doesn’t matter. We’ve got to stop living in the spectrum, the finite spectrum. This is either good or bad. Instead, figure out, no, this is just part of it.

Maxie McCoy:

Yeah. And we don’t have to be good or bad. Like when we’re trying new things in our workplace and our leadership journey, we’re so scared of being bad that we often don’t let ourselves even try. Right. Whether that’s dabbling in running a meeting, whether it’s taking, you know, like taking our hand at running the numbers, when what we do in our day-to-day work is very relational. But the reality is, is like, no one is just magically really great at things the majority of the time. And so we have to, I say, you know, like allow yourself to suck a little bit. I remember I went to. I signed up for a slam poetry workshop because I do like to write poetry. I just don’t share it with anyone. And I was like, Oh, but poetry with performing would be really interesting because I had a performance background just in terms of like on our broadcast team and speech and debate and theater when I was really young. And I was so bad at it, but it was so fun. It was so fun. And you’re like writing poetry and performing it and like, what? And I was terrible and I probably won’t, I don’t think I’ll ever do it again, but like, it was very cool. And I think allowing ourselves to just like, not be good at things is something that’s really important in our leadership because you don’t grow if the thing keeping you from learning is your level of perfection.

Jenn DeWall:

Well, I think it makes it harder to then lead effectively when you don’t try different things, or you don’t, you don’t practice vulnerability, then you’re modeling that behavior. And is that stifling innovation at a greater level? Is it, you know, not allowing people development opportunity.

Maxie McCoy:

It trickles down it. It really trickles down. And also, in leadership, I know that the advice that I just gave right. Of being able to move the big picture and, you know, I, I do workshops around the content of my book inside at companies all the time. And I acknowledged that that advice is counter to how we typically run big companies. It’s like the antithesis of Silicon Valley where I’m at. Like, everything is a big picture, unicorn, like the bigger, the better you have to get people to buy into your big beliefs. And there is a place for that in business cultures, in in, you know, workplaces. And we don’t have to apply all of that to our individual life. We don’t have to run our day-to-day life like that. It’s actually okay if you don’t know where it’s all going and where it ends up, because like, there’s so much uncertainty holding on to it is just like, it’s a really big source of anxiety, and it keeps you from doing the thing that you need to do, which is moving and showing up and trying, and really getting into action in small ways in your own life.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. Action quiets anxieties and gives yourself permission to not be perfect or to suck or to not even to not know all the answers. I think that’s the pressure that leaders put on themselves once they get the title or you get that big promotion, then all of a sudden, it’s as if it’s written in the job description, though it’s not. Like there’s a bullet point added that says you must be the best at every single thing. And know every part of this organization and answer every question like we had in our own bullet point on that. And it makes it so much more challenging to be an effective leader because we’re just then telling ourselves we’re missing the mark.

Remember No One is Perfect

Maxie McCoy:

Totally. A hundred percent. And the reality is, is like, no one is perfect at anything. And if you are holding yourself to this standard, but Jenn that you just gave, I would tell someone to just look at the leaders that they’ve really seen up close and respect and remind yourself of their failures, their imperfections. It’s not about being critical at them, but just remind yourself, like you’ve seen leaders that you respect and admire up close and in person, and they were not perfect. And that actually is probably why you love them. You know, like we don’t, we don’t really relate to people that are perfect in every way. That’s not what creates connection.

Jenn DeWall:

Right. And we know if we want to connect with our teams, we’ve got to do that. I want to get more into your book because I want to be able to talk about some of the concepts, but let’s do kind of maybe a little highlight reel. When you think about your book again, You’re Not Lost, what are some of the messages that you feel like even our listeners could benefit from hearing that are part of your book?

Maxie McCoy:

Yeah. I mean,  so what you have to know, if you’re listening to this and you haven’t read, You’re Not Lost, it’s really targeted at asking you questions that get you into action and, and leading your hand in that, even though I’m the first director, I have no idea about your life. I don’t know where it’s supposed to end up, and I don’t know how to fix it. But I do know how to encourage you to do small things, to try things out, to figure that out. And one of the things and this is probably a little bit, well, all of this is subjective. But it was because it was an exercise in my own life. That really started to create momentum for me is like, when you doubt yourself when you are unsure about where you want to go next, what you want to do with this year, what you know, just kind of where you want to be putting your energy. I think utilizing the people around you that really believe in you is a very powerful exercise. You know, I, I believe that we have to hand over our problems in order to receive the solutions.

Maxie McCoy:

So if you just keep it to yourself, like, yeah, you’re super, you know, enterprising, and you’re going to figure it out. Eventually, the internet is a beautiful place. Like there’s a lot of answers there, but also the people that know us the best can be helpful. And so, one of the strategies that I layout is to actually work with a friend. That’s my favorite way to do it. You don’t have to. You can totally do it on your own, but to pick, like, let’s say 5, 10, 15 of people that you would consider in your corner, right. They can be colleagues, and they can be mentors, they can be past colleagues. They could be parents, siblings, like literally anyone that’s a relationship that you were like, they actually like really are in my corner. They’re not like fake supportive; they’re truly supportive.

Maxie McCoy:

And then to ask them a series of questions. And the reason that I suggest in the book to do it with a friend is so that it can be done anonymously. Like they fill out a survey, that friend then delivers the answers to you in the questions that you’re asking them are things like, where do you see me in five years? Like, what are the things that you think are my, my highest contributions and superpowers, like of that vein. And then if you’re bold, like, what do you think is holding me back? And then, you know, other like sleepy thoughts that they might have, there’s a couple of other questions and there, and I’m telling you, and Jenn, I will tell you this.

Maxie McCoy:

Like, I still look at those answers. So I did that survey in 2014 with my friend Barban and the answers that are in that spreadsheet, which I still have. And I still sometimes refer back to are literally my life today. And it’s very different than my life in 2014. Like I have actually done all the things that they thought that I could do. But at the time when I was reading it, I was like, these people are just crazy. Like, I don’t know why they believe in me to that level, but I share this strategy as, as something that like, often, whether you do it like that, or you do it in your own way, it really is just about giving yourself an opportunity to understand how people really see you in a positive way in a positive light. Because oftentimes, when we don’t believe in our ability to go after that promotion to become the CMO, to do, you know, just start the new group in a company to negotiate for more. The people around us do. And there’ll be able to tell us why. And what matters is that we give space to actually understand that, you know, whether you call that a review that you do in your personal life or, or whatever. So that’s one of my favorites.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that one because it’s safe, right? There’s a safe space in being vulnerable because Maxie and I both know, we just got done talking about imposter syndrome, and we both know how difficult it is to put yourself out there, to put, to also get feedback on maybe the things that are holding you back or the things that you don’t want to see. I know, you know, one of the things that’s hard about leadership is getting comfortable with feedback and recognizing that you know, there are just strategies and how to manage feedback. We don’t have to absorb in place all of that on ourselves. We can choose that, but going to a friend or a mentor or a colleague, you know, creating that love that, I guess I would say that safe, supportive environment is just such a great place to begin because you’re not going to someone that you maybe don’t trust, and you’re not going to someone that you think wouldn’t be supportive. Those are not the people you want to invite to then give you assessments of how you’re showing up in your life.

Act ‘As If’

Maxie McCoy:

Totally. And I think, you know, even as you’re talking about those people and the imposter syndrome that we naturally feel, right, like you just mentioned that we just talked about all this. I mean, that’s another thing in all of this is when we survey those people, even when we doubt ourselves, right. This is what imposter syndrome really is that we think that we’re a fraud that we think that we don’t deserve this. We Don’t deserve the promotion, don’t deserve the pay. Like, somebody’s gonna find out we don’t actually know what we’re doing. Our people can be a really good source of our cheerleaders, the people in our corner, not the haters. They can be a really good source of support to remind us that, like, that actually is false spots. It is false thinking. It’s not what is true about us. And then, you know, if you are feeling that way and, and Jenn, because you brought it up, it is like another strategy that’s really helpful when you’re feeling lost, and you’re feeling stuck. And you’re trying things that you’ve never done before. And you’re maybe a little bit more willing to stink at all of it, is just acting as if, acting as if you do deserve that role acting as if you do know what you’re doing.

Maxie McCoy:

Even if you don’t feel like you do, acting as if you are the most confident person in the room when you go in to do that presentation around your ideas that you’re actually really nervous about. All of the research shows that when we step into that and we take on the identity of, of the confidence that we’re trying to exude, not only does it physically affect how we show up, like inside our bones in our body, it actually rallies the people around us to believe what we’re believing. And so, you know, the example that I like to give and the acting as if, is like, when you’re at dinner, and the owner of the restaurant comes up to you and starts asking how your food was, how you are, they don’t introduce themselves. They don’t tell you that they’re the owner of the restaurant. They don’t tell you half the time, even their name. They just start talking to you out of nowhere, which is almost stranger. Right. But you don’t second guess it. You’re like, cool. I’ll let this person interrupt me and stop my conversation with my, my, you know, family. I’ll let them ask me all of these questions about my food because they’re confident about it. So clearly, they’re the owner of this restaurant. And so it’s just like, remember that, right? Like how powerful it can be when you just act like you’re in charge, act like you own the place. Everyone else can tell because it affects how you act and how you show up.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. You can absolutely sense it. Right. You can sense when someone’s not confident, and it’s okay if you’re not confident, but I love your advice to act as if. Like, if you want to truly influence someone, you’ve got to say I’m worth listening to, but you’ve got to believe it first.

Maxie McCoy:

You have to believe it also. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think there’s always a place like I’m, I’m somebody who and Jenn, I know that you’re like this too. Like I’m vulnerable. I’m real about when I’m questioning something, or maybe like, I’m not feeling great about it, but you also do have to know the time and place that shows up. Because when you’re trying to get everyone to enjoy something and believe in you and be on board, you don’t want to start all of that with like a million reasons why they shouldn’t because of how you’re feeling about yourself. And, and I find that that vulnerability is really powerful in, in, you know, kind of small moments and ways or in past experiences, versus telling someone like at this moment I don’t know why I’m even running this meeting. Well, I go, it’s probably not the time and place.

Jenn DeWall:

That is such a good point, though, is talking about You’re Not Lost and how that actually comes up, or you might come across as lost is when you just tell your audience, they don’t need to listen to you because, Hey, yeah. I don’t even know why I’m leading this or something, or I’ll deflect it, or I’ll just defer to, Oh, they actually probably have a better answer than me, even though I might actually have a good answer, but I still will go to someone else.

Maxie McCoy:

One hundred percent. I mean, it’s, you know, the difference is like getting in front of a room of people and saying, I feel really lost right now, but let me give you the tools to not feel lost, which is like not going to work versus saying like, I have felt lost in the past few months, but these were my own tools that I used again to really bring me out of it. Right. And so it all becomes about the way with which you acknowledge the vulnerabilities. You acknowledge the imperfections while also acknowledging your expertise in leadership.

Jenn DeWall:

You just brought up something that Crestcom teaches and its curriculum and what, and it’s seriously one of my favorite pieces,

Maxie McCoy:

Please teach me!

Jenn DeWall:

And it’s just, you know, and it’s adding the qualifier word that we will naturally start to judge ourselves. Of course, as a leader, we put the pressure to be everything to everyone. We’re not going to know everything. And just by saying, and you know, I don’t know that yet. And just adding them yet, can you even give yourself? And that’s from our curriculum.

Maxie McCoy:

I love that.

Jenn DeWall:

Because it gives you permission to say, I don’t have to be an expert today, but I will commit to, you know, to finding out.

Maxie McCoy:

I mean, it’s, it’s really true and spot on. And like, yeah, if we’re always holding ourselves to the bar of knowing everything, then we’re just not breather like full of crap, or we’re not growing, or, you know, it just it’s, it’s not real. Like we shouldn’t have that expectation for ourselves.

It’s OK to Not Have it All Figured Out

Jenn DeWall:

Well, and it’s so interesting even thinking about the title of your book, You’re Not Lost. Where, you know, by nature of life, like we are never going to be perfect. We’re never going to be able to figure out what the future holds. All. We can control our choices today and how we learn from our lessons of yesterday. But yet we somehow put the pressure on ourselves to be like, well, you need to figure out what you’re doing.

Maxie McCoy:

I don’t know what I’m doing with my life. I don’t have it all figured out. Like nobody, like, I’m not where I thought I was going to be in all the best ways. Do you know what I mean? It’s just, why, why do we want to know exactly where it’s all going and how it’s ending up? And it’s, you know, I think it’s just kind of coming back to being okay with unknowns, which I know as humans is totally against how we operate. But there is like peace in that. And that is like, to your point about the book title, you can feel lost without being lost, right? Like we are not our feelings. And, and I think that the thing that I really try and get at in the book is, is the difference between direction and destination, right. And how freeing direction can be and how much destination can plague us.

Maxie McCoy:

Right. It’s the difference between saying that, like, I’m going to go align with my values. Align with opportunities that light me up. Align with my talents and skillsets, like these small things versus I’m going to go exactly to this one place, no matter what it takes. And as an example of how that shows up, like, I know that I love to write, I love to speak, but at the core of all of that is I really love facilitating women’s stories specifically. And so, a couple of years ago, I had an opportunity that presented itself around writing, ghost-writing someone else’s book. And for me, that would have been nowhere on the like, goals, plans, here’s everything I’m doing in the next five, ten years, which I don’t do to myself anymore, but like had I, I would not be there.

Maxie McCoy:

Right. But then when I really asked myself like, wow, this provided the situation feels good. Once I get into it, this really checks the box of these small things that I love to do with my days. I love to write. I love books. I love asking women questions. And like how cool that, that showed up. And I was able to say yes to it because I wasn’t so obsessed with the destination that I thought I wanted to go. And it is truly one of my favorite experiences. Do you know? It just, it really it set me up well for this year, this past year to have like a not so great year, you know, like there’s just, there’s different things that it was such a gift. And I never, if I had been really obsessed with knowing and only doing the things I said I’m going to do, and all of these goals and all of these plans and the big vision. It just wouldn’t have been on there. But it did totally line up with the small things that energize me, which is really what direction is about. It, it is about believing in yourself enough to take those small steps. Even if you don’t know where it’s all going,

It’s About Going in the Right Direction, Not Reaching a Destination

Jenn DeWall:

I love that you brought up direction. I was just writing that. So I can remember to say it. I love that you brought up the differentiation between direction and destination because I know as myself and I’m sure many people listening because let’s be honest with some of the people that listen to podcasts are likely type A, very ambitious, they want to be successful. But if I go back to even where I was, you know, earlier on in my career, my big destination was to be a buyer. I wanted to be traveling. I wanted to be doing all of that. And you know, it didn’t work out that way. And it was devastating because I only focused on that in the piece that I had to learn and peel back is, well, why did you really want that? And I found that, yeah, like I wanted it because everyone else had it, or that’s what you were supposed to want in our company because you want this upward mobility.

Whereas if I had paid attention to the, you know, the direction of it, I would have found, but Jenn, you’re the happiest when you’re working, when you’re the happiest when you’re doing this, you know, when you’re not happy is when you’re crunching numbers. You are not going to be the one. But I wonder if there are leaders because then how that shows up. Right. If I think about how I truly showed up as a team member, I wasn’t, you know, as probably like excited, I could be a little bit jaded, and I’m talking about after the destination failed, right? So when the destination failed, and I didn’t lean into my directions, then I kind of, you know, disengaged from the organization. I probably wasn’t the best team player. And if you think about anyone listening, like if you realize that maybe you found yourself in that same spot where you have a destination and either you’re, you’re not going to get it, or you find out that you really don’t want it, but then watching how you show up, because that will impact everything you are doing.

Maxie McCoy:

Jenn, you’re like calling me out right now because, you know, a couple of years ago, I took an opportunity to run experiences at scale in locations. Right. So it was a lot of things that I wouldn’t probably have been able to do on my own because it would have taken venture funding. And I remember like five months into. I wanted to do it because, like I bring women together, I facilitate their stories. I was getting to build out all of the like strategies and curriculum. And I had a team of 15. And like there was this, you know, there were all of these things in the leadership journey that I thought was what I wanted at the time or that I thought made sense. But I remember a few months into it being like, I literally like can’t stand my days. Like I, I can’t stand my day. It’s like I don’t spend my days in rooms full of women. I spend my days on zoom, in spreadsheets, in Google documents, in reporting in one-on-ones. I just don’t like my days. And I have, you know, I had built my life to a point where like, it was all about liking my days. Even if that meant I met, you know, made less money or had, you know, less whatever. And not that I ever expect myself to like a hundred percent of my days, but the point was, I didn’t like my emotions. Right.

Maxie McCoy:

And if you’re not liking your emotions more than you are, right. If it’s like an 80, 20, and the majority of it is like, you just don’t like your emotions. It means that your day-to-day actions aren’t aligned with the things that light you up. They, you might’ve thought. And by the way, we don’t. I say I share that story because I got it wrong, and I’m actually, it was an awesome lesson in getting it wrong. And, and by the way, I got this wrong, even after I wrote my book, like I really, I was, I was gunning for something. I wanted to try something out. I, it was, it was something that I, I thought that I wanted to figure out in my leadership journey, and it turns out I was like, Oh yeah, no. Okay, cool,

Maxie McCoy:

But it’s, it’s about recalibration. Right. And figuring out like, okay, like if that, you know, if that is what it takes to be, to do that then like, is, is that the situation? There’s a lot of factors there that made it a no, but it does matter that you do enjoy at least half, hopefully, a majority of your emotions of your actions. Because those are the things that make up our days and like not to get into like positive psychology, but like our days are our reality. They’re what we have. So, you know, and big goals even take your biggest goal. It is not going to fulfill you. Like we have all been there. We have all attained the thing. At some point, we thought we wanted, and it doesn’t fill you up. Like not unless it’s like really good partnership family stuff. Because that’s about moments of love. Right. And, and so I just, you know, I caution myself and all of us to forego disliking the majority of our moments in order for, you know, something a few years, a few months, a few decades out that may or may not happen because we may or may not live to see it.

Jenn DeWall:

Or we may not even actually end up wanting it. And I love to just think we don’t have to spend our time in our jobs, even if we find that we don’t love everything. First of all, we can always leave, or second, we can always adjust our mindset, like so much. We feel like that stuck, but we can’t change it because you are breathing in six feet above the ground. You always get to cheat. And now I know that we’re wrapping up or coming to the end of our time. And I really do want to talk about one of the areas, because I think that what you’re doing in the area of women’s leadership is just such important work. And you’re the Host and Executive Producer of Woman On. And could you just share a little bit about what that is?

Maxie McCoy:

Yeah. I’ll share what it is. I mean, at its simplest form, it’s like talk show meets Sunday school, but not religious. It’s really about giving women the information, the support, the connections, the training that they need to move forward in the areas of their life that they want to move forward. And for me, it was really born out of being at all these one-time events and also listening to all of these incredible podcasts and shows and trying to figure out how could I marry the two together so that there’s a more ritualized, more regular, more repetitive connection that allows us to get to know each other around this content that we’re consuming. And so if you think, you know, there’s an episode that comes out every week, then there’s a gathering also every week, either with your small group or in a workshop type situation with me, that allows you to get to know other people, get to know yourself and really give you small actions to be able to, to move forward on, you know, whatever decisions you have coming up.

Jenn DeWall:

And I think you’re right, you know, what’s so interesting is someone might initially download this podcast episode, and they’re like, wait, but they’re not necessarily giving me this like a tactical thing. Right. Because we’ve got the achievers. They’re like, how can I do it? And it’s like, how can I, how can I motivate my team? Or how can I lead a change manager management strategy? And so some of you, this might be actually really hard to just sit and do some self-reflection of like, but how am I really showing up? Because leadership is always going to start with you. It’s never just going to be your goals or the initiatives that your organization has. It is starting to do some inner work of thinking about who is the person that I am. Am I happy? Because again, all of that is going to impact your ability to be successful. To lead a team. I just love that you’re creating a place for people to, again, stop focusing solely on the external destination, but starting to really pay attention to the directions, to where they want to go because we know that that’s where our own personal success and magic happens.

Maxie McCoy:

A hundred percent. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s just like kind of taking ourselves out of the box. There’s a lot of dimensions to us. They’re all connected. And you know, the more that we can incorporate all of it, like working on one area of your life, as we all know, it impacts other ones.

Jenn DeWall:

I mean, Maxie, the final thing that I would say is I know that people are going to go and check out Woman On. I can say I was so happy to be just to be a part of that from, you know, leading a small group of women. And it was just.

Maxie McCoy:

We are so lucky to have women of your caliber leading. I just, I feel grateful every day.

Jenn DeWall:

Well, but I think as leaders like we have to be tasked with constantly growing. We have to be tasked with thinking, Oh my gosh, like what conversations should I be having that? I’m not because we do naturally get into our own bubble, if you will, the same kind of thoughts, the same theories. And we’ve got to look at how we can continuously grow ourselves because we’re not lost. We’re just always learning.

Maxie McCoy:

We’re just always learning. And we’re always on our way, you know, always on our way.

Jenn DeWall:

Well, Maxie, thank you so much for coming on the show! I just loved this. And I also love taking the time to focus on ourselves, which I think is, again, it’s one of the things that leaders fail to do because we’re just focused on how we can get to the outcome. We forget to focus on ourselves, but how can people get in touch with you?

How to Connect with Maxie

Maxie McCoy:

Yeah. I mean, I’m all over Instagram. It’s @MaxieMcCoy. I also write weekly on maxiemccoy.com. You’ll find a lot of fun downloadable things, like how to plan 2021 without goals. And then, Woman On Collective is at @womenoncollective On Instagram and womanoncollective.com on the internet.

Jenn DeWall:

And your book, You’re Not Lost, right?

Maxie McCoy:

You’re Not Lost. We talked about it so much. I almost forgot! Anywhere books are sold. Amazon, Target, the internet, your local book store. You’re Not Lost by Maxie McCoy, and you should be able to find it.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for giving inspiration. It was just so great to have you. Thank you, Maxie.

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone. Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit. I hope you enjoyed the conversation that I have with Maxie McCoy and that she gave you different insights and considerations of things that you could potentially do, actions that you can take. So you can show up and create the success that you know you deserve to have and also to be the best leader. Now, again, this episode is so important because, as leaders, we sometimes forget to focus on who we are at our core and how that then contributes to our ability to lead. And I hope that Maxie shared with you some valuable tools and techniques for how you can get closer to understanding yourself and use that to your advantage in how you can lead, motivate, and engage and connect with others. Now, if you enjoyed today’s podcast episode, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast, streaming service or share it with a friend. If you want to connect with Maxie McCoy, you can find her on Instagram @MaxieMcCoy, or you can find her through Woman ON, which is @womenoncollective. Now, if you want to know how you can better develop yourself, do not hesitate to reach out to us because, at Crestcom, we want to help you be the best leader that you can be. So jump on over to Crestcom.com if you want to know more about our monthly leadership offerings. Until next time!

 

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