Meet Ukraine’s ‘Geeks of War’

Nov 19, 2025

Guest

Irina Shlukdenko

Guest

Oleksandr Kosovan

Guest

Erica Hellerstein

In this engaging discussion, investigative journalist Erica Hellerstein guides us through Ukraine's tech-powered resistance, spotlighting the incredible contributions from volunteer groups. Oleksandr Kosovan, CEO of the software company MacPaw, shares insights on wartime tech innovations, including the recent missile damage to their office. Irina Shlukdenko, co-founder of Zyga's Paw, reveals how grassroots efforts are delivering essential tech gear and drones to the front lines. Together, they illustrate an inspiring blend of creativity and resilience in the face of adversity.

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ANECDOTE

Nighttime Sirens Via Air Alert

Erica describes hearing air-raid alarms via the Air Alert app voiced by Mark Hamill while sheltering in Kyiv at night.
She tracks real-time updates across Air Alert, Telegram, and WhatsApp to navigate bombardments and stay safe.

ANECDOTE

Engineers Running Drone Command Centers

Dimko enlisted as a drone operator and describes command centers with multi-screen setups and MIT-like engineers guiding battlefield decisions.
He explains UAVs for reconnaissance and FPV drones as cheap, scalable weapons reshaping front-line combat.

INSIGHT

Cheap Drones Shift War Economics

FPV drones, once hobbyist tools, now cost hundreds and can destroy million-dollar military assets, changing the economics of warfare.
Ukraine's use of cheap, scalable drones is accelerating global adoption and raising proliferation risks for militias and extremist groups.

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The Ukraine-Russia war has been called the most technologically advanced war in history. Ukrainian citizens receive notifications about incoming missile and drone attacks through apps on their phones; remote-controlled drones swarm the front lines; and volunteer cyberwarfare units target Russian digital infrastructure. It’s all part of what some have dubbed Ukraine’s “Geeks of War.”

In this episode, investigative reporter Erica Hellerstein takes us to the digital front line. On a recent trip to Ukraine, she met a husband-and-wife duo running a DIY nonprofit that supplies tech to defense forces, toured the recently-bombed headquarters of one of the country’s biggest tech companies, and explored how a swarm of online accounts with Shiba Inu avatars is countering Russian propaganda.

Throughout, she looks at how Ukraine’s culture of tech innovation — and its surprising ties to Silicon Valley — are fueling the country’s resistance through an army of engineers, coders, hackers, and tinkerers.

Guest:

Erica Hellerstein, investigative journalist and feature writer

Further Reading/Listening:

Dexter Filkins on Drones and the Future of Warfare⁠ — Adam Howard, WNYC

⁠Lessons From the World’s First Full-Scale Cyberwar⁠ — David Kirichenko, Kyiv Post

⁠Russia Takes Its Ukraine Information War Into Video Games⁠ — Steven Lee Myers and Kellen Browning, The New York Times

⁠Why Ukraine remains the world's most innovative war machine⁠ — Ibrahim Naber, Politico

⁠A Thousand Snipers in the Sky: The New War in Ukraine⁠ — Marc Santora, Lara Jakes, Andrew E. Kramer, Marco Hernandez and Liubov Sholudko, The New York Times

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Credits:

Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. This episode was reported by Erica Hellerstein. It was produced by Maya Cueva and edited by Chris Egusa and Jen Chien. Chris Hambrick is our editor. Original music, including our theme song, by Chris Egusa. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief.

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