Ascend - The Great Books Podcast Intro to the Odyssey with Dr. Patrick Deneen and Dr. Chad Pecknold (2024)
Apr 21, 2026
Dr. Chad Pecknold, an Augustinian theologian linking theology and political thought, and Dr. Patrick Deneen, a political thinker on the history of ideas, introduce Homer’s Odyssey. They discuss why the Great Books matter. Short takes cover Odysseus as neither beast nor god, fate versus choice, temptations of false immortality, and reading pagan texts through a Catholic lens.
01:06:18
From English Major To Political Philosopher
- Patrick J. Deneen traced his path from a BA in English to political philosophy through a desire to study the great books amid rising postmodernism.
- He credits a Rutgers political theory professor who taught literature as teaching the texts as teachers, which pushed him toward political philosophy.
Ayn Rand Led Me Back To Plato
- Patrick J. Deneen credits reading Ayn Rand in high school for pushing him back to Plato and Aristotle.
- He read Plato and Aristotle to understand Rand and came away preferring the ancients, which 'cured' his Randism and deepened his classical interest.
Augustine In A Used Bookstore Sparked A Career
- Chad C. Pecknold discovered the ancients via The Essential Augustine found in a used bookstore, which led him to Plato and Cicero.
- Augustine's emphasis on meaning external to the self convinced Pecknold that truth is extrinsic, shaping his theological trajectory.
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Intro
00:00 • 1min
Guest Introductions and Backgrounds
01:15 • 1min
Patrick Deneen's Literary Roots
02:45 • 3min
Formative Readings: Rand to Plato
05:19 • 2min
Childhood Myths and D'Aulaires' Influence
07:20 • 2min
Chad Pecknold's Discovery of Augustine
09:11 • 2min
Providence and Intellectual Formation
11:00 • 3min
Richard Meloche: From Woods to Thomism
13:55 • 2min
Narrative's Role in Formation
15:37 • 2min
Deneen's Dissertation on the Odyssey
17:32 • 4min
Chicago, David Greene, and a Year with Homer
21:36 • 2min
Rural Life and Intellectual Practice
23:59 • 3min
Approaches to Reading Homer
27:08 • 2min
Homer's Anticipation of Christian Themes
29:14 • 1min
The Dynamic, Living Canon
30:38 • 3min
Organic Formation of the Canon
33:20 • 2min
Why Read Homer Today
35:42 • 5min
Odysseus as Neither Beast Nor God
40:28 • 2min
Assessing Odysseus' Moral Complexity
42:30 • 4min
Immortality Temptations and Christian Parallels
47:00 • 4min
Reading Pagans with a Christian Lens
51:11 • 2min
Homer as Corrective on Modern Choice
52:41 • 5min
Great Books in Theological Education
57:36 • 2min
Personal Reflections on Reading Classics
59:36 • 2min
Augustine on Teaching and the Liberal Arts
01:01:50 • 2min
Final Advice for Odyssey Readers
01:04:01 • 1min
Outro
01:05:24 • 43sec
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On Christian Teaching (De Doctrina Christiana)
Saint Augustine
In 'On Christian Teaching,' Augustine offers guidance on interpreting Scripture and instructing Christians, arguing that knowledge of grammar, rhetoric, and other liberal arts aids in proper exegesis and effective preaching.
He distinguishes use and enjoyment of created things and emphasizes love ordered to God as the highest end, shaping pedagogical aims.
Augustine’s pedagogical framework influenced the medieval university and the Christian intellectual tradition, advocating that secular learning be subordinated to theological ends.
The work provides practical and philosophical reflections on pedagogy, hermeneutics, and the moral responsibilities of teachers.
It has been foundational for Christian approaches to education and scriptural interpretation.
#
The Essential Augustine
Vernon J. Bourke (editor)
The Essential Augustine is an anthology that gathers representative selections from St. Augustine’s wide-ranging corpus, edited to introduce readers to his theological, philosophical, and pastoral insights.
Often used as a starter volume for those approaching Augustine, it covers topics like conversion, the nature of God, sin, grace, and Christian teaching.
The collection highlights Augustine’s intellectual method and spiritual depth, showing why he became a central figure in Western Christian thought.
By presenting accessible excerpts, the book enables readers to encounter Augustine’s voice and themes without immediately tackling full-length treatises.
It has been influential in guiding later scholarly and popular engagement with Augustinian theology.
#268
• Mentioned in 100 episodes
City of God
Augustine of Hippo
Written between 413-426 CE, 'The City of God' is a response to pagan claims that the sack of Rome by barbarians was a consequence of the abolition of pagan worship by Christian emperors.
Augustine argues that Christianity saved the city from complete destruction and that Rome’s fall was due to internal moral decay.
The book divides humanity into two metaphorical cities: the City of God, characterized by devotion to God, and the City of Man, characterized by self-love.
It also outlines Augustine’s theological interpretation of human history, from the Creation to the Second Coming of Christ, and critiques paganism and pagan philosophy while presenting the true history of the City of God.
#540
• Mentioned in 62 episodes
Beowulf
Anonymous
Beowulf is an Old English epic poem that chronicles the daring deeds of its titular hero, Beowulf.
The story begins with Beowulf's journey to help King Hrothgar of the Danes, whose mead hall, Heorot, is terrorized by the monster Grendel.
Beowulf kills Grendel and later Grendel's mother, then returns to his homeland to become king of the Geats.
After ruling for 50 years, he faces his final battle against a fire-breathing dragon, which ultimately leads to his death.
The poem explores themes of heroism, fate, and the struggle between civilization and wilderness.
#1840
• Mentioned in 25 episodes
Politics
Aristotle
In 'Politics,' Aristotle examines the various forms of government and their strengths and weaknesses.
He argues that the *polis*, or city-state, is the highest form of political association, and that humans are by nature political animals who can only achieve their full potential within such a community.
Aristotle discusses different types of constitutions, including constitutional government, aristocracy, kingship, democracy, oligarchy, and tyranny, and evaluates them based on the principle of distributive justice.
He also emphasizes the importance of a strong middle class, education, and the role of law in maintaining a stable and just society.
The work is deeply rooted in Aristotle's teleological view of nature and his belief that the ultimate goal of human existence is happiness achieved through the exercise of reason and virtue.
#113
• Mentioned in 173 episodes
The Iliad
Homer
The Iliad is an epic poem attributed to Homer, set during the Trojan War. It begins in the ninth year of the war, where a quarrel between King Agamemnon and the warrior Achilles sets off a chain of events.
The poem explores themes of heroism, honor, and fate as it describes the battles and interactions between Greek warriors like Achilles, Diomedes, and Odysseus, and Trojan warriors like Hector and Paris.
The story is interspersed with divine interventions from Greek gods and goddesses, influencing the outcome of the war.
The poem culminates with Achilles' reconciliation with Agamemnon and his subsequent rage against the Trojans, leading to the death of Hector and the eventual funeral rites for Patroclus and Hector.
#136
• Mentioned in 151 episodes
The Republic
Plato
#50
• Mentioned in 262 episodes
The Odyssey
Homer
The Odyssey, attributed to Homer, is an ancient Greek epic poem that tells the story of Odysseus, king of Ithaca, and his ten-year journey home after the Trojan War. The poem explores Odysseus's encounters with various mythical creatures, divine interventions, and natural challenges.
Upon his return to Ithaca, he must confront the suitors who have been vying for his wife Penelope's hand in marriage.
With the help of his son Telemachus and the goddess Athena, Odysseus devises a plan to defeat the suitors and reclaim his throne.
The poem is a reflection on human nature, loyalty, and the consequences of one's actions, and it remains a crucial component of ancient Greek literature and Western cultural heritage.
#417
• Mentioned in 74 episodes
The Aeneid
Virgil
The Aeneid, written by Virgil between 29 and 19 BC, is a monumental work of classical literature.
It follows the journey of Aeneas, a Trojan hero, as he navigates from the ruins of Troy to Italy, where he is destined to found the city of Lavinium, a precursor to Rome.
The poem is divided into 12 books, with the first six detailing Aeneas' wanderings and the second six describing the war in Italy against the Latins.
The epic incorporates various legends and mythological elements, glorifying traditional Roman virtues and legitimizing the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
It explores themes such as duty, fate, and the relationship between the individual and society, and has had a profound influence on Western literature.
#206
• Mentioned in 116 episodes
The Fountainhead
Ayn Rand
Published in 1943, 'The Fountainhead' by Ayn Rand tells the story of Howard Roark, a young and innovative architect who refuses to compromise his artistic vision despite the opposition from society.
The novel explores themes of individualism, egoism, and the conflict between those who think for themselves (the 'first-handers') and those who follow the opinions of others (the 'second-handers').
It also delves into the lives of other characters such as Dominique Francon, Peter Keating, Ellsworth Toohey, and Gail Wynand, each representing different aspects of Rand's philosophical ideas.
The book is a defense of egoism and individualism, presenting a radical rethinking of basic moral concepts and challenging conventional notions of selfishness and altruism.
#685
• Mentioned in 51 episodes
Why Liberalism Failed
Patrick J. Deneen
In 'Why Liberalism Failed,' Patrick J. Deneen critiques both classical liberalism (often called libertarianism) and progressive/modern liberalism.
He argues that liberalism has created contradictions such as fostering material inequality despite advocating for equal rights, discouraging civic commitments in favor of privatism, and giving rise to a comprehensive state system while pursuing individual autonomy.
Deneen contends that liberalism's success is generating its own failure, leading to issues like income inequality, cultural decline, atomization, and the erosion of freedoms.
The book examines the outcomes of the growth of the state, the construction of the free market, and the effects of technology on freedoms and culture.
#47
• Mentioned in 269 episodes
Atlas Shrugged
Ayn Rand
Published in 1957, 'Atlas Shrugged' is Ayn Rand's magnum opus and her longest novel.
The story is set in a dystopian United States where increasingly burdensome laws and regulations strangle innovation and productivity.
The plot follows Dagny Taggart, a railroad executive, and Hank Rearden, a steel magnate, as they struggle against 'looters' who exploit their work.
A mysterious figure named John Galt leads a strike of productive individuals, persuading them to abandon their companies and disappear.
The novel culminates with Galt's three-hour radio speech explaining his philosophy of Objectivism, which emphasizes rational self-interest, individual rights, and the importance of the human mind.
The book explores themes of capitalism, property rights, and the failures of governmental coercion, presenting a provocative vision of a society in collapse and the potential for a new capitalist society based on Galt's principles.
For the first time since 2023, Ascend is reposting an episode--our introduction to the Odyssey with Dr. Patrick Deneen (6.25.2024) in anticipation of our NEW 12-WEEK STUDY of the Odyssey starting next week!
We start BOOK ONE OF THE ODYSSEY next week!
Check us out on X, Facebook, Instagram, and more!
In this special introduction to Homer’s Odyssey, Deacon Harrison Garlick is joined by three distinguished guests: Dr. Patrick Deneen (Professor of Political Science at Notre Dame and author of Why Liberalism Failed), Dr. Chad Pecknold (Associate Professor of Systematic Theology at The Catholic University of America), and Dr. Richard Meloche (then President of the Alcuin Institute for Catholic Culture).
The conversation explores why the Great Books matter, why Homer’s Odyssey remains foundational to Western thought and theological formation, and key introductory themes in the epic (with a few light spoilers). Topics include the dynamic nature of the canon, Odysseus’s journey home as a meditation on human nature (neither beast nor god), the tension between fate and choice, temptations of forgetfulness or false immortality, and how a Catholic lens reveals anticipations of Christian truths like restlessness for our true home. The guests share personal stories of how they encountered the Great Books and reflect on the role of narrative in education and spiritual formation.
It’s a rich, accessible discussion that sets the stage for deeper dives into the Odyssey while connecting ancient pagan wisdom to Christian theology.
In this episode the panel discusses:
• The importance of the Great Books canon and why it remains vital
• Personal journeys into the classics (and how providence often leads us there)
• Key themes in the Odyssey: homecoming, beast-like forgetfulness vs. god-like immortality, fate and free choice, father-son relationships, and Odysseus’s very human flaws
• Reading pagan texts through a Catholic lens—seeing anticipations of Christian truth (restlessness for the City of God, the need for virtue and community)
• The role of great stories in theological and liberal education
Timestamps:
00:00 – Welcome and guest introductions
08:15 – How each guest discovered the Great Books
22:40 – Why read Homer? The foundational role of the Odyssey
40:00 – Major themes and introductory overview of the Odyssey (light spoilers)
1:05:00 – Odysseus as neither beast nor god – the need for the city
1:25:30 – Theological reading of pagan literature
1:45:00 – The dynamic canon and reading with Christian eyes
2:05:00 – Final thoughts and what’s next for Ascend
Join us as we read the Odyssey over the next 12 weeks!